Yes, but that equipment is not standard. Hey, PS2s can have hard drives, too. See how well that went over?
Went over pretty well...in Japan Went over well among Final Fantasy fans here in the states and Linux kit owners of course. The problem with the HD wasn't rejection by gamers but overcaution by SCEA. Had the HD came out in 2002, as was originally planned, it would have been better received. But SCEA wanted to wait until it had a killer app for it, and Square took too long to do the NTSC version of FFXI
A close friend of mine bought a TV a couple weeks ago that didn't even have stereo or S-video inputs.
So blame your friend, not the console. When you can get stereo sound in cheap TV's there's no excuse for a TV hooked up to a game machine not to have it. If they don't want to buy a stereo TV just hook the audio to a boom box or something with stereo in.
Whatever. Sonic and Mario walk and jump in THREE dimensions. That's a HUGE gameplay improvement. Pardon me if I'm not turgid with excitement.
Repeat after me: There's more games on consoles than just cartoony platformers. Besides some of them are pretty darn good games and shouldn't be bashed out of hand.
I think that if you looked back, you'd find that there were a large number of gaming companies that made games exclusively for personal computers. Origin, LucasArts, SSI. Interplay.
And where are Interplay, SSI and Origin now? do they have the output they once did? Do they have the mindshare they did?
Sure there's companies that are (or were) exclusively PC but that's my point, that's becoming rarer and rarer.
Nowadays, PC games have the serious limitations of consoles thrust on them (e.g. Deus Ex 2), but it was not always so.
Blame the programmers, not the console. It was their fault for not optimizing the controls/game for each platform Or blame Ion Storm doing Deus Ex 2 for the Xbox when the PS2 would have been a better home for it. USB ports, so they wouldn't have had to change the controls at all.
Who says they aren't. Last I heard blizzard was thinking of doing a console version of WoW.
Sure there's a lot of PC owners playing games...web games. But there are a hell of a lot more console "gamers" than PC "gamers"
How would it be any different from playng them on a PC. You do know that PS2's have USB ports, so the people that do play MMORPG's on the PS2 just plug a keyboard in.
As for FPS' I simply do not understand the antipathy PC gamers have for proper analog controls. They work fine, though it takes time to get used to them. Of course with USB if you want to play with awful WASD you can.
Yes it's dying, it's turning into the modern equivalent of the late Amiga game market. niche games (like the turn based wargames) ports, games from Europe, and games by dev houses that are anti-console snobs.
Oh sure the PC will play home for indie games for dev houses too poor to go console, but if those guys have a hit, say goodbye to them.
The consoles can handle any genre, even ones like the strategy titles. Just because they haven't played host to such games much in the past doesn't mean they can't be done.
And most telling, Microsoft would rather people not play games on PC's, due to the support costs. Same pretty much goes for Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.
You obviously haven't played a console game in a while. "Casual gamer" You do realize that all the FPS's fanboys are "casual gamers " compared to the greybeards that played wizardry, Ultima I and all those hex based turn based civil war wargames with low res graphics.
Please tell me the reason why consoles can't do competitive gaming. They've got multitaps, they've got lan play, the've got online play so what is it they lack?
Sure it used to take years for a console port of a PC game to appear and now it takes what...months? and now there's more multiplatform games than ever and more console to PC ports than there ever were.
There's 3 console EQ games, EQOA (mmorpg) and Champions of Norrath, Champions: Return to Arms (diablo clones)
There's console Sim games too.
As for the others, just because they haven't been ported doesn't mean they won't or that they can't. Any one of those could be done on a console.
And it's so much easier to use the mouse / keyboard combination for gaming than a controller (no matter how i try, i can't aim in halo worth a shit with an xbox controller)
Perhaps you should be blaming your ham handed self and not the controller. Subtle movements! You need to build up your thumb muscles and dexterity. The mouse skills (and muscles) you have are useless with an analog stick. It will just take time and practice.
Instead, I'd like to suggest the limitations of console input devices limit the sorts of games that can be played on them, and THAT is the biggest single reason I see for gaming as it's meant to be, on a PC.
I could also mention the fact that a PC Game developer can ASSUME a high quality display, stereo sound and a couple of complex input devices.
There are no limitations, not since October of 2000. (USB ports on the PS2)
I must also say that gaming consoles predate gaming on PC's. (not counting text based stuff on PDP 11's or whatever) So technically gaming is meant to be done on consoles.
Consoles have had stereo sound as the default since the late 80's when the Genesis came out.
I might also put forward that I strongly dislike the cultural influences of two of the three console makers. I've played Computer RPGs and adventure games since the mid-80s - the console versions of those things just aren't the same thing - as well as simulators and wargames (think Avalon Hill, not RTS). Those are types of games that simply do not exist on consoles. Console makers apparently think "fun" = 2D jumping puzzles, rehashing sports titles and "RPGs" that are as linear as a train track.
There's nothing stopping a developer from doing a traditional grognard greybeard AH style game on a console. They just don't do it, because guys like you who actually buy those niche games are very anti console. As for the 2D jumping games you must be thinking of the 16 bit consoles and earlier because 3D games have been the norm for about a decade. Console games aren't just run/jump/bop anymore.
Still, it's easier to get ahold of a C compiler, 3D Studio or whatever the hell it is that spews forth Flash than it is to get a PS2 development kit.
All in all, the more PC Gaming looks like it was an afterthought (afterbirth?) of console gaming, the less I want to do with gaming generally.
It's always been an afterthought, except for that short time after the fall of the 2600 and the rise of the NES, from about 84 to 86 when the C64 was the "in" gaming device. (that most people who owned one used just like a console)
the current generation PS2 can do up to 1080i, off the top of my head only two pieces of software do that, one is the Linux kit, the other being Gran Tursimo 4. It can also output VGA (sync on green)
Wow I've never seen bot behavior like that on the PS2 version, maybe they optimized the AI for the PS2 (largest market) but didn't do it for the other versions. My only complaint about the AI is Mace Windu, he doesn't seem as agressive as the other Jedi.
Half Life Deus Ex (Doesn't mention the USB support on the box or manual) Red Faction 2 Unreal Tournament
You might also check the other PS2 FPS's. If one has a PSone mouse, there's a few PSone FPS's with mouse support. Final Doom, Quake II and Alien Resurrection. There may be others.
don't know of any PS2 RTS's, but I would expect mouse support since all of the PSone RTS's had mouse support.
The keyboard itself has better support, for text chat for the online games and text entry for passwords in the like in the online games. So if you've got online PS2 games you'll want one. The keyboard is pretty much required for RPG Maker 2 and the PS2 MMORPG's.
Apparently the most well regarded FPS's on the PS2 are the Timesplitters games, no USB support, but I've read the controls work well. They've also got their mapmakers and the newest one has online play.
Re:PCs will always rule the FPS and RTS markets
on
Review: Battlefield 2
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· Score: 1
Never say never because PC gaming advocates who say "consoles will never do such and such" get proven wrong.
I've heard,
You'll never see a action packed blood filled slugathon like DOOM on a console."
"you'll never see a game like diablo on a console."
"okay, so you have diablo and clones, but you'll never play online."
"okay so you can play diablo clones online, you'll never have MMORPG's"
"oikay so I was wrong, well you can't hook up a keyboard...oh you can."
"You'll never have mods, oh RPG Maker and Timesplitters?"
Besides, who needs mods, really. Console gamers don't have to wait for new games so there's no incentive for it. When you've got a new SOCOM out every year, right on schedule it's not like waiting 5 years for Half Life 2 so someone does the developers work for them and makes a mod so they'll have something to play.
The enthusiasts market is very small, really. Even the console enthusiast market (those SNK obsessed guys at some of the magazines)
Star Wars Battlefront for now, There's a sequel coming out as well as a console BF that comes out this fall I believe.
Re:Question - how good IS this for small LAN parti
on
Review: Battlefield 2
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· Score: 1
Actually, the PS2/Xbox/PC versions of Star Wars Battlefront might suit you well for small scale LAN play. The games support bots and since you can set your server to let you choose your side, you can choose to play a humans vs bot game.
Re:This person never played the game it seems...
on
Review: Battlefield 2
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· Score: 1
Actually there are console games that have been patched, off the top of my head (of games I own) both SOCOM's, FFXI, EQOA, and Star Wars Battlefront. However none of them were unplayable in their unpatched state.
I'll grant you the mouse for aiming, but for movement, WASD is simply not as good as analog stick.
Trust me, as a general purpose works-ok-for-all-genre's controller a dual analog gamepad is far superior to the keyboard and mouse.
You can add specific controllers like say a mini usb keyboard for an MMORPG to supplement the gamepad. or if you prefer a mouse to aim with. Note I said supplement, not replace.
Ummm the PS2 has USB ports so it DOES have inputs for keyboard and mouse. Where have you been since Oct of 2000?
By the way, you'll probably prefer the analog stick for movement once you get used to it. I tend to do a hybrid control, dual shock in the left hand, for movement, mouse in the right. And if it's an optical mouse, no need for a mousepad.
The player limit seems to be somewhat connection speed related, at least for the PS2 version, if you play a LAN game (with the PC based server software you can have more than 16 players.
I've seen the battlefront AI do all sorts of things, they WILL guard, on their own. They'll also go where they are "needed". They're smart enough to fire from different positions to suppress you. Damned CIS AI uses their droidekas effectively. I've seen AI starships on Bespin land near a command point and take it.
Slashdot Mirror
Went over pretty well...in Japan Went over well among Final Fantasy fans here in the states and Linux kit owners of course. The problem with the HD wasn't rejection by gamers but overcaution by SCEA. Had the HD came out in 2002, as was originally planned, it would have been better received. But SCEA wanted to wait until it had a killer app for it, and Square took too long to do the NTSC version of FFXI
So blame your friend, not the console. When you can get stereo sound in cheap TV's there's no excuse for a TV hooked up to a game machine not to have it. If they don't want to buy a stereo TV just hook the audio to a boom box or something with stereo in.
Repeat after me: There's more games on consoles than just cartoony platformers. Besides some of them are pretty darn good games and shouldn't be bashed out of hand.
And where are Interplay, SSI and Origin now? do they have the output they once did? Do they have the mindshare they did?
Sure there's companies that are (or were) exclusively PC but that's my point, that's becoming rarer and rarer.
Blame the programmers, not the console. It was their fault for not optimizing the controls/game for each platform Or blame Ion Storm doing Deus Ex 2 for the Xbox when the PS2 would have been a better home for it. USB ports, so they wouldn't have had to change the controls at all.
Who says they aren't. Last I heard blizzard was thinking of doing a console version of WoW.
Sure there's a lot of PC owners playing games...web games. But there are a hell of a lot more console "gamers" than PC "gamers"
How would it be any different from playng them on a PC. You do know that PS2's have USB ports, so the people that do play MMORPG's on the PS2 just plug a keyboard in.
As for FPS' I simply do not understand the antipathy PC gamers have for proper analog controls. They work fine, though it takes time to get used to them. Of course with USB if you want to play with awful WASD you can.
Yes it's dying, it's turning into the modern equivalent of the late Amiga game market. niche games (like the turn based wargames) ports, games from Europe, and games by dev houses that are anti-console snobs.
Oh sure the PC will play home for indie games for dev houses too poor to go console, but if those guys have a hit, say goodbye to them.
The consoles can handle any genre, even ones like the strategy titles. Just because they haven't played host to such games much in the past doesn't mean they can't be done.
And most telling, Microsoft would rather people not play games on PC's, due to the support costs. Same pretty much goes for Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.
You obviously haven't played a console game in a while. "Casual gamer" You do realize that all the FPS's fanboys are "casual gamers " compared to the greybeards that played wizardry, Ultima I and all those hex based turn based civil war wargames with low res graphics.
Please tell me the reason why consoles can't do competitive gaming. They've got multitaps, they've got lan play, the've got online play so what is it they lack?
Sure it used to take years for a console port of a PC game to appear and now it takes what...months? and now there's more multiplatform games than ever and more console to PC ports than there ever were.
There's 3 console EQ games, EQOA (mmorpg) and Champions of Norrath, Champions: Return to Arms (diablo clones)
There's console Sim games too.
As for the others, just because they haven't been ported doesn't mean they won't or that they can't. Any one of those could be done on a console.
"about to pounce"? They've already pounced. First started playing an MMORPG on my PS2 in 2003.
Perhaps you should be blaming your ham handed self and not the controller. Subtle movements! You need to build up your thumb muscles and dexterity. The mouse skills (and muscles) you have are useless with an analog stick.
It will just take time and practice.
There are no limitations, not since October of 2000. (USB ports on the PS2)
I must also say that gaming consoles predate gaming on PC's. (not counting text based stuff on PDP 11's or whatever) So technically gaming is meant to be done on consoles.
Consoles have had stereo sound as the default since the late 80's when the Genesis came out.
There's nothing stopping a developer from doing a traditional grognard greybeard AH style game on a console. They just don't do it, because guys like you who actually buy those niche games are very anti console. As for the 2D jumping games you must be thinking of the 16 bit consoles and earlier because 3D games have been the norm for about a decade. Console games aren't just run/jump/bop anymore.
http://playstation2-linux.com/ official hobbyist development kit.(though it's quite usable fo other things)
It's always been an afterthought, except for that short time after the fall of the 2600 and the rise of the NES, from about 84 to 86 when the C64 was the "in" gaming device. (that most people who owned one used just like a console)
the current generation PS2 can do up to 1080i, off the top of my head only two pieces of software do that, one is the Linux kit, the other being Gran Tursimo 4. It can also output VGA (sync on green)
Wow I've never seen bot behavior like that on the PS2 version, maybe they optimized the AI for the PS2 (largest market) but didn't do it for the other versions. My only complaint about the AI is Mace Windu, he doesn't seem as agressive as the other Jedi.
Sure:
Half Life
Deus Ex (Doesn't mention the USB support on the box or manual)
Red Faction 2
Unreal Tournament
You might also check the other PS2 FPS's. If one has a PSone mouse, there's a few PSone FPS's with mouse support. Final Doom, Quake II and Alien Resurrection. There may be others.
don't know of any PS2 RTS's, but I would expect mouse support since all of the PSone RTS's had mouse support.
The keyboard itself has better support, for text chat for the online games and text entry for passwords in the like in the online games. So if you've got online PS2 games you'll want one. The keyboard is pretty much required for RPG Maker 2 and the PS2 MMORPG's.
Apparently the most well regarded FPS's on the PS2 are the Timesplitters games, no USB support, but I've read the controls work well. They've also got their mapmakers and the newest one has online play.
Never say never because PC gaming advocates who say "consoles will never do such and such" get proven wrong.
I've heard,
You'll never see a action packed blood filled slugathon like DOOM on a console."
"you'll never see a game like diablo on a console."
"okay, so you have diablo and clones, but you'll never play online."
"okay so you can play diablo clones online, you'll never have MMORPG's"
"oikay so I was wrong, well you can't hook up a keyboard...oh you can."
"You'll never have mods, oh RPG Maker and Timesplitters?"
Besides, who needs mods, really. Console gamers don't have to wait for new games so there's no incentive for it. When you've got a new SOCOM out every year, right on schedule it's not like waiting 5 years for Half Life 2 so someone does the developers work for them and makes a mod so they'll have something to play.
The enthusiasts market is very small, really. Even the console enthusiast market (those SNK obsessed guys at some of the magazines)
Paragraph breaks, please.
Graphics my friend is not the be all and end all of gaming. Your new card will not buy you better gameplay, it just buys you better pictures.
I doubt the next generation of consoles will cost more than $300, trust me on that.
It is possible to do all kinds of things on a console with the right hardware or software like this:
http://playstation2-linux.com/
Star Wars Battlefront for now, There's a sequel coming out as well as a console BF that comes out this fall I believe.
Actually, the PS2/Xbox/PC versions of Star Wars Battlefront might suit you well for small scale LAN play. The games support bots and since you can set your server to let you choose your side, you can choose to play a humans vs bot game.
Actually there are console games that have been patched, off the top of my head (of games I own) both SOCOM's, FFXI, EQOA, and Star Wars Battlefront. However none of them were unplayable in their unpatched state.
I'll grant you the mouse for aiming, but for movement, WASD is simply not as good as analog stick.
Trust me, as a general purpose works-ok-for-all-genre's controller a dual analog gamepad is far superior to the keyboard and mouse.
You can add specific controllers like say a mini usb keyboard for an MMORPG to supplement the gamepad. or if you prefer a mouse to aim with. Note I said supplement, not replace.
Did you know the newest Ace Combat game for the PS2 supports USB HOTAS? Yeah, truly.
But that Steel Battaliion controller is the ultimate mech game controller for sure.
Ummm the PS2 has USB ports so it DOES have inputs for keyboard and mouse. Where have you been since Oct of 2000?
By the way, you'll probably prefer the analog stick for movement once you get used to it. I tend to do a hybrid control, dual shock in the left hand, for movement, mouse in the right. And if it's an optical mouse, no need for a mousepad.
The player limit seems to be somewhat connection speed related, at least for the PS2 version, if you play a LAN game (with the PC based server software you can have more than 16 players.
Then don't play the game laying down, who the hell plays games laying down anyways.
Actually all the versions of Battlefront are separate you can host a server for the PS2 version on a PC though.
But you're right, using a analog stick requires subtle movements and many ham fisted PC gamers find it hard to adjust.
I've seen the battlefront AI do all sorts of things, they WILL guard, on their own. They'll also go where they are "needed". They're smart enough to fire from different positions to suppress you. Damned CIS AI uses their droidekas effectively. I've seen AI starships on Bespin land near a command point and take it.
Battlefront AI dumb? Maybe in the PC or Xbox versions, because they sure aren't in the PS2 version.
oh you mean a game like Champions of Norrath or Champions Return to Arms? or the other Balder's Gate Dark Alliance engine games?
Or Diablo itself for the PSone?