Hypothetical edge case. Chromebooks tend to be used by ONE person. They're so cheap that a family could give every family member their own personal Chromebook exclusively for them. But you'll make up some OTHER contrived reason to keep your axe going.
I remember reading sob stories in Slashdot comments of lost data due to someone else in the household accepting confirmation twice, unaware of the effect that it would have on other users of the same console.
Indeed, I saw those as well.
Or are multi-person households the edge case?
Sort of. In the past, devices were often shared, nowadays, not so much.
You must not know a lot of children under 16 living in urban areas. In many (I'm guessing most) U.S. states, they are legally prohibited from performing the essential duties of most jobs in order to earn the money to buy their own PC or PlayStation 3 console.
Man, you must really be an edge case if you don't realize that PARENTS (or other people) often buy such things FOR their kids. It isn't 1992 anymore where siblings have to share a SNES connected to an old TV via RF modulator.
I know a family whose kids each have their own iPad. IIRC they also have their own 3DS's. At least one has her own PS3 hooked up to an HDTV only used by her. They also have TWO PS Vita's and more game consoles on the living room TV (PS3/360/PS4) They also have several computers and IIRC each member of the family also has an iPhone.
In my household, both of us have a phone, tablet, portable gaming device, and computer for our own exclusive use. I'm basically the only "somewhat core gamer" so the PS3 and PS4 are pretty much exclusively used by me.
Such households are increasingly the norm. Now do you understand why as an adult I consider same-screen multi an edge case?
Now, I'm not saying that PC gaming is "stupid" or "dead" or anything like that. For people who have the money and want to invest it the experience really is better there. HOWEVER, there are lots of people who still love to play games but don't want to put that much money into the hobby. They either have other hobbies they would like to spread their funds to (or maybe even BILLS to pay) and for them consoles offer a way to still play the games without jumping on the PC upgrade treadmill.
I've basically been saying that for YEARS but the Slashdot groupthink is all PC MASTER RACE UBER ALLES and all that. And by gaming on consoles, I don't need to use Windows.
Or simply: I'm not surprised that people game on a PC, only that someone would pose the question "Why would you play a port of a PC game on a console?"
Indeed. Some of my favorite games are PC to console ports:
NES Maniac Mansion, NES Might and Magic, various ports of DOOM (the SNES version is more faithful to the PC maps, but performs like a dog.) Diablo on the PSone, C&C RA, Quake II on PSone (but ONLY with the PSone mouse) Diablo III/UEE on the PS3/PS4, Minecraft and more.
I'm sure it had more to do with taxes than anything else.
No. Why will that falsehood never die?
The European version of the PS2 came with a BASIC disk which was something completely different from the PS2 Linux kit.
That is correct, YaBASIC.
[quote]This allowed them to sell it as a general purpose computer which had a lower import tax than a game console.[/quote]
That is also correct, but said tarriff was repealed shortly after the release of YaBASIC....BEFORE release of Linux for the PS2. Which was LONG before the PS3 ever existed. So Linux on the PS2/PS3 was NEVER a tax dodge, but totally about encouraging development for the EE/GS and Cell/RSX.
what you say is codswallop. 3.21 and above is mandatory if you want to play any games that came out after 3.21.
Mea culpa I should have been more verbose. I thought that was covered by my "connecting to PSN" It does depend on the game. Some games that came after don't require 3.21 or later.
Each newer game disc contains a mandatory firmware update you need to install to play the game you bought.
That's not quite true. Only those games that require a minimum firmware include an update on disc.
On top of that, without 3.21, I lost online multiplayer access to all my existing games.
Which is what I said with "connecting to PSN".
There is nothing optional about the update.
Sure there is. You and I just have different definitions. The update isn't forced, you can keep OtherOS. But you lose access to PSN and any game that requires a later firmware. That is because your PS3 isn't "trusted" anymore.
You also have the option to upgrade and lose OtherOS, or acquire a second PS3. The ultimate choice is yours, the very definition of optional.
You have have not liked the options...but you did have them.
Buggy shit didn't happen until they went to half-hardware half-software emulation.
IIRC there were a few (very few) games that had trouble even on the first PS3's because the PS3 tries to implement a "perfect TRC exact PS2" so that games that break the TRC's and use various tricks, have issues. Which are worse on the models without the EE like the CECHE I have.
There are also PSone games that have issues when run on anything other than an actual PSone, that includes the fully hardware compatible PS2! One example is the X-files graphical adventure game, the graphics glitch out and it is unplayable on a PS2 or PS3.
There are games that DO run better on a PS2 or PS3. One example is the PSone port of Diablo. Original reviews state how it can be a bit choppy on a PSone...and it is. However if you play it on a PS3 it is no longer choppy.
Yeah, but they don't have my gpg signed e-mails/USENET posts that show I'm running Linux on a PPC in addition to the output of/proc/cpuinfo and screenshot of my desktop (running fluxbox by the way)
Installing YDL 6.1 on my PS3 was my first Linux experience.
Installing Sony's wacky Kondarized Red Hat on the PS2 was mine.
I ran it over composite RCA to my TV so it wasn't much to look at
I feel your pain, having run PS2 Linux via composite/s-video. I ran YDL on the PS3 via HDMI.
I went without upgrading to the OtherOS firmware for a year or so
I only lasted a couple of months.
I manually removed the Linux partition before the upgrade so I can't confirm whether the tales of the system not reclaiming the Linux partition if upgraded with it still in place were true.
They're not, it reclaims.
Still have my PS3, only replaced the original 60GB HDD a few months ago.
I upped mine to 320GB in 2012, game caches were killing me.
Didn't realize at the time I bought it in January 2007 I would be getting the most capable version of the hardware... early adoption went well for once.
I wasn't a quite so early adopter. I bought my CECHE in 2008, knowing it would be the last of the backwards compatible models. But I also got the DualShock3 as part of that. The CECHE MGS models were the first to ship with the DS3 instead of the sixaxis.
Only real downside compared to the newer models is how loud the cooling fans
How many people still have the requisite model of PS3 that works?
/me looks up at CECHE model PS3 that is still working....upgraded the hard drive.
Between YLOD and selling to upgrade to a PS4,
[joke] Selling? What is this selling you speak of? Is that like the "trading in" of games that some Madden-ites and brown-shooter-dudebros speak of? REAL gamers don't "trade in" Why if it wasn't for a flood, I'd still have a working Colecovision/Commodore 128/Atari 2600 with the faux wood paneling! Now get off my lawn![/joke]
As I posted above, I can prove it fairly easily, having saved the outpuf of cat/etc/redhat-release, cat/proc/cpuinfo. And having e-mail with PPC64 x-mailer headers posted to the YDL mailing list no less....said e-mail is gpg signed.
I could also prove I ran LInux on a PS2, but that's easy I have the discs with their case. (in addition to gpg signed e-mail with mipsel-unknown-linux-gnu x-mailer headers)
And the fact that I've mentioned running Linux on teh PS2 and PS3 many many times on Slashdot.
Let's see what exciting things are in this mandatory OS update.
Dear Diary, day +=1. Turned on the PS3 today, and noticed OtherOS option has gone, and I can't released the partition it used without a complete wiping of the system.
Hold on there, 3.21 is only mandatory if you want to connect to PSN. If you want to keep OtherOS you can. And 3.21 (and later) updates warn you VERY specifically what they will do if you if you start them on a PS3 with OtherOS in use. It will also require confirmation not once...but TWICE before it will perform the update removing OtherOS functionality.
Also from 2008 to 2010 I read and composed my e-mail on the PS3 with Claws mail and the X-Mailer header would be this...depending on the claws/GTK+ version I was using at the time.
X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.5 (GTK+ 2.10.14; powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu)
I also began gpg signing e-mail and USENET posts in 2007...on the PS2 no less and continued the practice on the PS3. So the legitimacy of those e-mails and posts could be proven.
I also was a regular on SCEA's PS2 Linux site and a regular (and moderator) on the YDL forums and followed the YDL mailing lists hosted by Terrasoft themselves.
I also mentioned running Nethack on my PS3 in #nethack on Freenode:
The number of PS3's with PS2 backwards compatibility is quite small. Basically one specific SKU of the earliest versions of the console.
You must be over in the UK or Europe? Because it is 3 SKUs/models in the States
CECHA 60GB deluxe launch model with the chrome, card reader, 4 USB ports, and wifi,
CECHB 20GB basic launch model, 2 USB ports, no card reader, no wifi
CECHE 80GB deluxe model, chrome trim, 4 USB ports, card reader, wifi, only available as a bundle. MGS4 bundle were the first machines shipped with the Dual Shock3. CECHE models have "slightly reduced" PS2 compatibility. They have PS2 Graphic Synthesizers but lack Emotion Engines.
Or before that, when they pushed proprietary DRM'd MemorySticks instead of MMC?
Secure Digital cards didn't exist when Sony created MemorySticks. MS was created with the intent of selling digital music (this was pre-iTunes) and wanting some way of protecting that music. Also they aren't "quite" proprietary since 3rd parties make them.
Or before that, when they pushed proprietary MiniDiscs?
Not proprietary, Sony DID license MiniDisc to other manufacturers...however said manufacturers often didn't release said products in the States.
It's been fixed since what was it... Fedora 17? IIRC that was the last one where the upgrade issues were more prevalent. I haven't had trouble since then with in place upgrades.
They're actually referring to doing easy updates via a GUI since IIRC Fedora hasn't had a distro-upgrade gui. Thusly requiring the terminal for distro upgrades....which is easy enough.
In the terminal you use dnf system-upgrade though you can still use the old "fedup" command (which redirects to dnf system-upgrade)
Upgrading F23 to F24 in the terminal is as easy as:
[quote]Maybe that was a big problem in Russia and they had to pass a law?[/quote]
No, it wasn't a big problem.
[quote]Yeah we are so much better than Russia.[/quote]
Who is this we, because you're obviously not a native English speaker. Let me guess... "Persian" or Pakistani immigrant? That would explain the obsession with not being able to have sex with 12 year old girls.
[quote] Perhaps we are already past that point already since we are encouraging young boys to dress like girl, cut their penis off and much on hormone pills? but a 12yo boy is old enough to consent to sex change surgery, hormone 'therapy'[/quote]
You are mistaken.
[quote]and sodomy in gay pride parade. [/quote]
If a male-bodied person of any age was to have sex change surgery....then having sex with men wouldn't be sodomy would it because they would be having heterosexual type sex.
I know there's a bit of a stereotype of nerdygirls being redheads (either natural or dyed), but I'm bit surprised the doll is a redhead. Mattel says redheaded Barbies don't sell well. They actually do very few good redheads and most of those being lighter reds and strawberry blondes.
Slashdot Mirror
Hypothetical edge case. Chromebooks tend to be used by ONE person. They're so cheap that a family could give every family member their own personal Chromebook exclusively for them. But you'll make up some OTHER contrived reason to keep your axe going.
I remember reading sob stories in Slashdot comments of lost data due to someone else in the household accepting confirmation twice, unaware of the effect that it would have on other users of the same console.
Indeed, I saw those as well.
Or are multi-person households the edge case?
Sort of. In the past, devices were often shared, nowadays, not so much.
You must not know a lot of children under 16 living in urban areas. In many (I'm guessing most) U.S. states, they are legally prohibited from performing the essential duties of most jobs in order to earn the money to buy their own PC or PlayStation 3 console.
Man, you must really be an edge case if you don't realize that PARENTS (or other people) often buy such things FOR their kids. It isn't 1992 anymore where siblings have to share a SNES connected to an old TV via RF modulator.
I know a family whose kids each have their own iPad. IIRC they also have their own 3DS's. At least one has her own PS3 hooked up to an HDTV only used by her. They also have TWO PS Vita's and more game consoles on the living room TV (PS3/360/PS4) They also have several computers and IIRC each member of the family also has an iPhone.
In my household, both of us have a phone, tablet, portable gaming device, and computer for our own exclusive use. I'm basically the only "somewhat core gamer" so the PS3 and PS4 are pretty much exclusively used by me.
Such households are increasingly the norm. Now do you understand why as an adult I consider same-screen multi an edge case?
Is the minimum system software version for each PlayStation 3 game conspicuously labeled on its box?
No, it isn't. But you should be able to google for that info.
Ditto. After reading his comment I was thinking:
"You and your company are being jerks....stop it."
Though the only Comodo product I use is their free s/mime e-mail cert. I used to get them from thawte, but they stopped doing it.
Now, I'm not saying that PC gaming is "stupid" or "dead" or anything like that. For people who have the money and want to invest it the experience really is better there. HOWEVER, there are lots of people who still love to play games but don't want to put that much money into the hobby. They either have other hobbies they would like to spread their funds to (or maybe even BILLS to pay) and for them consoles offer a way to still play the games without jumping on the PC upgrade treadmill.
I've basically been saying that for YEARS but the Slashdot groupthink is all PC MASTER RACE UBER ALLES and all that. And by gaming on consoles, I don't need to use Windows.
Or simply: I'm not surprised that people game on a PC, only that someone would pose the question "Why would you play a port of a PC game on a console?"
Indeed. Some of my favorite games are PC to console ports:
NES Maniac Mansion, NES Might and Magic, various ports of DOOM (the SNES version is more faithful to the PC maps, but performs like a dog.) Diablo on the PSone, C&C RA, Quake II on PSone (but ONLY with the PSone mouse) Diablo III/UEE on the PS3/PS4, Minecraft and more.
Try again when you've successfully written your own Second Life clone to work on Cell Arch.
Wait...what? Did you work on Home or did you homebrew something up? I'd love to see screenshots, considering I'm a Second Life user.
I'm sure it had more to do with taxes than anything else.
No. Why will that falsehood never die?
The European version of the PS2 came with a BASIC disk which was something completely different from the PS2 Linux kit.
That is correct, YaBASIC.
[quote]This allowed them to sell it as a general purpose computer which had a lower import tax than a game console.[/quote]
That is also correct, but said tarriff was repealed shortly after the release of YaBASIC....BEFORE release of Linux for the PS2. Which was LONG before the PS3 ever existed. So Linux on the PS2/PS3 was NEVER a tax dodge, but totally about encouraging development for the EE/GS and Cell/RSX.
what you say is codswallop. 3.21 and above is mandatory if you want to play any games that came out after 3.21.
Mea culpa I should have been more verbose. I thought that was covered by my "connecting to PSN" It does depend on the game. Some games that came after don't require 3.21 or later.
Each newer game disc contains a mandatory firmware update you need to install to play the game you bought.
That's not quite true. Only those games that require a minimum firmware include an update on disc.
On top of that, without 3.21, I lost online multiplayer access to all my existing games.
Which is what I said with "connecting to PSN".
There is nothing optional about the update.
Sure there is. You and I just have different definitions. The update isn't forced, you can keep OtherOS. But you lose access to PSN and any game that requires a later firmware. That is because your PS3 isn't "trusted" anymore.
You also have the option to upgrade and lose OtherOS, or acquire a second PS3. The ultimate choice is yours, the very definition of optional.
You have have not liked the options...but you did have them.
IBM was going to provide cell processor blades for data centers.
They DID!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Buggy shit didn't happen until they went to half-hardware half-software emulation.
IIRC there were a few (very few) games that had trouble even on the first PS3's because the PS3 tries to implement a "perfect TRC exact PS2" so that games that break the TRC's and use various tricks, have issues. Which are worse on the models without the EE like the CECHE I have.
There are also PSone games that have issues when run on anything other than an actual PSone, that includes the fully hardware compatible PS2! One example is the X-files graphical adventure game, the graphics glitch out and it is unplayable on a PS2 or PS3.
There are games that DO run better on a PS2 or PS3. One example is the PSone port of Diablo. Original reviews state how it can be a bit choppy on a PSone...and it is. However if you play it on a PS3 it is no longer choppy.
Yeah, but they don't have my gpg signed e-mails/USENET posts that show I'm running Linux on a PPC in addition to the output of /proc/cpuinfo and screenshot of my desktop (running fluxbox by the way)
The emerge world command took over 24 hours from what I remember due to Sony locking out most of the CPU cores.
Sony didn't lock out "most of the CPU cores", the PS3 has only ONE PPE that's hyperthreaded. You've got full access to that.
You're thinking of the SPU's which are not "generic CPU cores", a gentoo "emerge world" wouldn't use them anyway.
Installing YDL 6.1 on my PS3 was my first Linux experience.
Installing Sony's wacky Kondarized Red Hat on the PS2 was mine.
I ran it over composite RCA to my TV so it wasn't much to look at
I feel your pain, having run PS2 Linux via composite/s-video. I ran YDL on the PS3 via HDMI.
I went without upgrading to the OtherOS firmware for a year or so
I only lasted a couple of months.
I manually removed the Linux partition before the upgrade so I can't confirm whether the tales of the system not reclaiming the Linux partition if upgraded with it still in place were true.
They're not, it reclaims.
Still have my PS3, only replaced the original 60GB HDD a few months ago.
I upped mine to 320GB in 2012, game caches were killing me.
Didn't realize at the time I bought it in January 2007 I would be getting the most capable version of the hardware... early adoption went well for once.
I wasn't a quite so early adopter. I bought my CECHE in 2008, knowing it would be the last of the backwards compatible models. But I also got the DualShock3 as part of that. The CECHE MGS models were the first to ship with the DS3 instead of the sixaxis.
Only real downside compared to the newer models is how loud the cooling fans
Oh yeah, FATs are loud.
How many people still have the requisite model of PS3 that works?
/me looks up at CECHE model PS3 that is still working....upgraded the hard drive.
Between YLOD and selling to upgrade to a PS4,
[joke] Selling? What is this selling you speak of? Is that like the "trading in" of games that some Madden-ites and brown-shooter-dudebros speak of? REAL gamers don't "trade in" Why if it wasn't for a flood, I'd still have a working Colecovision/Commodore 128/Atari 2600 with the faux wood paneling! Now get off my lawn![/joke]
As I posted above, I can prove it fairly easily, having saved the outpuf of cat /etc/redhat-release, cat /proc/cpuinfo. And having e-mail with PPC64 x-mailer headers posted to the YDL mailing list no less....said e-mail is gpg signed.
I could also prove I ran LInux on a PS2, but that's easy I have the discs with their case. (in addition to gpg signed e-mail with mipsel-unknown-linux-gnu x-mailer headers)
And the fact that I've mentioned running Linux on teh PS2 and PS3 many many times on Slashdot.
Let's see what exciting things are in this mandatory OS update.
Dear Diary, day +=1. Turned on the PS3 today, and noticed OtherOS option has gone, and I can't released the partition it used without a complete wiping of the system.
Hold on there, 3.21 is only mandatory if you want to connect to PSN. If you want to keep OtherOS you can. And 3.21 (and later) updates warn you VERY specifically what they will do if you if you start them on a PS3 with OtherOS in use. It will also require confirmation not once...but TWICE before it will perform the update removing OtherOS functionality.
Easy! Well, at least it is easy for me.
[CronoCloud@wutai ~]$ cat ps3_info.txt
[CronoCloud@mideel ~]$ cat
Yellow Dog Linux release 6.0 (Pyxis)
[CronoCloud@mideel ~]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
cpu : Cell Broadband Engine, altivec supported
clock : 3192.000000MHz
revision : 5.1 (pvr 0070 0501)
processor : 1
cpu : Cell Broadband Engine, altivec supported
clock : 3192.000000MHz
revision : 5.1 (pvr 0070 0501)
timebase : 79800000
platform : PS3
Also from 2008 to 2010 I read and composed my e-mail on the PS3 with Claws mail and the X-Mailer header would be this...depending on the claws/GTK+ version I was using at the time.
X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.5 (GTK+ 2.10.14; powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu)
I also began gpg signing e-mail and USENET posts in 2007...on the PS2 no less and continued the practice on the PS3. So the legitimacy of those e-mails and posts could be proven.
I also was a regular on SCEA's PS2 Linux site and a regular (and moderator) on the YDL forums and followed the YDL mailing lists hosted by Terrasoft themselves.
I also mentioned running Nethack on my PS3 in #nethack on Freenode:
Jul 13 00:30:46 SysInfo: Linux 2.6.23-9.ydl6.1 | Cell Broadband Engine, altivec supported (4 CPUs) | Mem: 159MB/216MB [|||||||---] | Diskspace: 20GB/62GB [|||-------] | Screen Res: 1280x768 | Procs: 109 | ppp0: In: 0.0MB Out: 0.0MB | Uptime: 1 hour 42 minutes | Users: 1 | Load: 0.18, 0.25, 0.11
For some reason that perl sysinfo script saw the hyperthreaded altivec unit as two more CPU's. The Cells PPE is hyperthreaded and is seen as two.
The number of PS3's with PS2 backwards compatibility is quite small. Basically one specific SKU of the earliest versions of the console.
You must be over in the UK or Europe? Because it is 3 SKUs/models in the States
CECHA 60GB deluxe launch model with the chrome, card reader, 4 USB ports, and wifi,
CECHB 20GB basic launch model, 2 USB ports, no card reader, no wifi
CECHE 80GB deluxe model, chrome trim, 4 USB ports, card reader, wifi, only available as a bundle. MGS4 bundle were the first machines shipped with the Dual Shock3. CECHE models have "slightly reduced" PS2 compatibility. They have PS2 Graphic Synthesizers but lack Emotion Engines.
I have the latter with a 320GB drive in it.
does not require to be plugged into the internet to work,
Neither does the PS4, why do you think it does?
does not require gb of updates,
I'm laughing at you because you're obviously not a serious user of PS3 since there ARE PS3 games that have large multi-gig updates.
Or before that, when they pushed proprietary DRM'd MemorySticks instead of MMC?
Secure Digital cards didn't exist when Sony created MemorySticks. MS was created with the intent of selling digital music (this was pre-iTunes) and wanting some way of protecting that music. Also they aren't "quite" proprietary since 3rd parties make them.
Or before that, when they pushed proprietary MiniDiscs?
Not proprietary, Sony DID license MiniDisc to other manufacturers...however said manufacturers often didn't release said products in the States.
It's been fixed since what was it... Fedora 17? IIRC that was the last one where the upgrade issues were more prevalent. I haven't had trouble since then with in place upgrades.
They're actually referring to doing easy updates via a GUI since IIRC Fedora hasn't had a distro-upgrade gui. Thusly requiring the terminal for distro upgrades....which is easy enough.
In the terminal you use dnf system-upgrade though you can still use the old "fedup" command (which redirects to dnf system-upgrade)
Upgrading F23 to F24 in the terminal is as easy as:
[code]
sudo dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=24
sudo dnf system-upgrade reboot[/code]
Of course, if one waits a couple of days the F23 version of gnome-software will be updated to support graphical distro update.
[quote]Maybe that was a big problem in Russia and they had to pass a law?[/quote]
No, it wasn't a big problem.
[quote]Yeah we are so much better than Russia.[/quote]
Who is this we, because you're obviously not a native English speaker. Let me guess... "Persian" or Pakistani immigrant? That would explain the obsession with not being able to have sex with 12 year old girls.
[quote] Perhaps we are already past that point already since we are encouraging young boys to dress like girl, cut their penis off and much on hormone pills? but a 12yo boy is old enough to consent to sex change surgery, hormone 'therapy'[/quote]
You are mistaken.
[quote]and sodomy in gay pride parade. [/quote]
If a male-bodied person of any age was to have sex change surgery....then having sex with men wouldn't be sodomy would it because they would be having heterosexual type sex.
I know there's a bit of a stereotype of nerdygirls being redheads (either natural or dyed), but I'm bit surprised the doll is a redhead. Mattel says redheaded Barbies don't sell well. They actually do very few good redheads and most of those being lighter reds and strawberry blondes.