Namespaces would be nice. Formal java-style oop? Not really necessary and what does it really buy us? The ms thing is clouding the issue, a lot of web developers (like Douglas Crockford) are really unhappy with ES4 as it looks today, and that has nothing to do with MS. ES4 should not be adopted.
As you noted, your issues are with the DOM apis, not the language. ES4 solves NONE of these problems and instead focuses on make JS more like Java. What benefit do we get from ES4? Its slightly easier to develop in? Yay, but that certainly doesn't do anything about the real issues:
* Same origin security is broken and just makes it hard to develop mashup style aps
* JS/DOM as implemented now is inherently insecure
* Event listeners and dom interaction is memory hungry and slow
* Regex implementation sucks
* No good vector support (canvas tag may solve this)
* No native JSON
and many more...
And it instead bloats the language, will slow down the runtime, increase the size of scripts and essentially waste everyones time.
for 1 dollar a week you are buying a mild emotional high when checking the numbers
That is why I pretend I bought a lottery ticket every week. I gamed the system man!
Can you read? Do you know algebra? Calculus? What was the civil war? Why was it fought? Who won? What are the three branches of government? How do I calculate force? Why is there no more slavery? What is DNA? Were do clouds come from? How is it that Europeans came to dominate the americas? What are leaves for?
Kids actually learn a lot in school. But motivated middle class kids tend to learn a lot outside of school as well because they have access to all kinds of other opportunities. For poor kids school is the only chance they have to learn these things.
This is much more complicated than you think. Some students don't want to be there, fine. It isn't most. And a good teacher can engage a large portion of a bad class. But a good teacher has to be a smart, well trained person. And smart, well educated people basically won't want to work at a job that pays half of what they could make in another career. Its not "kids these days" that are the problem. Its "good people don't want to teach"
I read the article again. This guy is right...why the hell aren't we funding education better? Why are we responding to failing schools by taking money away? Why doesn't this country want to invest in education?
You are right, this is generally a pretty elitist view. Maybe middle class students and up are very tech savvy. The guy is right, science, match and technology education is weak at best in this country. But the rest of kids are the opposite, and this is the problem. Reading a lot of this comments in this thread is annoying, because so many are complaining about "kids that don't want to learn" or boring classes that don't excite students. Someone upthread suggested we stop mandating education. But before you assume that these are serious problems in American eduction let me tell you that they are not really problems at all. I mean, if boring classes drove you from education and left you unemployable and uneducated that is hardly the school's fault is it? Do you think the poor aren't going to college because they are too bored?
BUT, before you go out so many people in technology assume that the problems of education are the same ones that smart, generally middle class or better boys have. Or that their upper middle class kids in Palo Alto are some how representative of students at large. I challenge these guys to get out of their neighborhoods. My wife is a teacher in East Oakland. Her school has a total of 0 computers for student use. Zero. NONE. The students also typically do not have computers or internet access at home. They do not have ipods. Some have cell phones. The problem these kids have is not the "stifling" educational environment. The problem is that they are so far behind middle class students they will never catch up. My high school was not particularly challenging for me. I could have learned more there and I learned a lot on my own outside of school. But I certainly have not been handicapped by this experience. But you try going to college with the middle class kids having little to no experience with technology. Before we start fixing education for smart middle class kids (who seem to be doing just fine) we ought to consider making sure that poor kids get access to technology at all or they are going to be left even further behind.
Oh give me a break. Are you seeing more in this than there is? The guy complained about commercial airlines and lamented that it must be nice to have a private jet. He didn't ask to be given one.
Anecdote: where I work Macbook Pros recently became an option for developers. Its kind of a hassle, because you need manager approval, but it is an option. Since this started about six months ago the things are taking over. I go to training and meetings these days and you see a 50/50 mix of macs and standard issue hp laptops. The fact is a lot of people would rather have a mac. The growth seems real to me, I used a mac in college, switched a way for a few years and came back after the intel switch. These things are awesome, great design of the hardware, fast as fast can be and the OS rocks. Whats not to like?
I think the real bubble territory is the Meebos, plaxos and (dare I say it) facebooks of the world. Facebook especially is giving me a.com flashback. "Its a platform! It will change the world! Its the next google!" These companies best case is they get bought.
I think there is a small bubble, but for the most part it isn't a stock bubble, its a VC bubble. Right now in Silicon Valley VCs are falling all over themselves trying to fund some little crappy startup and hoping it will be the next company to flip for a billion dollar acquisition. I suspect that Yahoo is not going to be making many billion dollar startup acquisitions for the foreseeable future and Google is heading for a correction that will probably put a stop to the frenzy as well. And then, sadly, the VC is going to dry up and any web 2.0 startup that can't make money is going to close. Its the silicon valley cycle of life. The.com bubble was an extreme example, but what goes up must come down. I just hope that I can stay afloat through the next downturn.
Good job with that strawman. Boy does he look like an idiot. I mean, that guy thinks you shouldn't be able to arrest terrorists! What an asshole. He thinks killing is ok because republicans do it! And he wants to outlaw drinking, smoking and legalize wife beating.
Mr. Coward. If you think that is what liberals think no wonder you don't like them. They sound like idiots! No I don't doubt that you can dig up morons on the internet that actually think these things. But I can tell you that the vast majority of self-described liberals are universally opposed to domestic violence and prohibition. A great number of them smoke. Most of them drink. None of them think you shouldn't be able to arrest terrorists. Almost of all them are opposed to religious extremism and fundamentalism. (do I need to find some choice passages from another popular holy book?)
And nobody, I MEAN NOBODY, supports the Iranian government. Holy crap, do you really think liberals think that? Because they don't, ok?
Every major site has XSS vulnerabilities. They are inevitable. You have remember that large applications can have hundreds of developers working on many, many lines of code. It is hard to hit every edge/corner case for every possibility, while still preserving functionality. Many, many sites can be hit with this (even yours actually, look into vulnerabilities with the Expect: header)
I generally agree, although I find ie 7 and firefox tend to work about the same with css and safari quite a bit differently. Now safari's javascript is just plane not very good. Although I heard some improvements were made in version 3, so I am interested to see how that shakes out.
I mean, you kind of expect there are going to be some bugs...this is a Good Thing and the reason you release a public beta, (in addition to getting buzz) you can shake out the bugs.
Yeah this article sucked, but to be fair websites != to "corporate data stuff". MySQL powers the biggest websites in the world because it is very easy to scale very large if you don't mind a little bit of stale data here and there and transactional integrity isn't all that important. Like, if you are running Yahoo. If you are running a bank MySQL wil not do the job.
Where the hell do these "cios" come from? As far as I can tell none of the reasons for or against were particularly relevant. The issue is not MySQL vs Oracle/SQL Server/DB2. It really depends on the application. If transactional integrity is most critical I would go with Oracle (if you have the cash, otherwise PostGres). If integration with microsoft stuff is most critical SQL Server is a no brainer. If the job is some kind of content web site that needs to be quick to start and scale into infinity, MySQL is perfect, especially if performance is going to be more important than transactional integrity.
This site seems to confirm my suspicion that the CIOs of the world ought not to be making decisions about implementation unless they solicit a lot of info from the people they have working for them.
I really don't understand what happens at microsoft. They really do hire the industry's best and brightest. They pay them a lot of money, give them all the resources they need and...they give us vista. And asp.net. wtf?
As I said elsewhere, YUI is a library, not a framework. It is very small and you can include only what you need. I suggest all the people complaining about frameworks are not even addressing what we are talking about here, which is the fact that javascript libraries make advanced JS development possible, because you don't have to waste you time solving solved problems and you can focus on your app.
Slashdot Mirror
Your karma is insufficient for breakthroughs in theoretical physics.
This is what I mean: http://www.json.org/JSONRequest.html
Namespaces would be nice. Formal java-style oop? Not really necessary and what does it really buy us? The ms thing is clouding the issue, a lot of web developers (like Douglas Crockford) are really unhappy with ES4 as it looks today, and that has nothing to do with MS. ES4 should not be adopted.
As you noted, your issues are with the DOM apis, not the language. ES4 solves NONE of these problems and instead focuses on make JS more like Java. What benefit do we get from ES4? Its slightly easier to develop in? Yay, but that certainly doesn't do anything about the real issues: * Same origin security is broken and just makes it hard to develop mashup style aps * JS/DOM as implemented now is inherently insecure * Event listeners and dom interaction is memory hungry and slow * Regex implementation sucks * No good vector support (canvas tag may solve this) * No native JSON and many more... And it instead bloats the language, will slow down the runtime, increase the size of scripts and essentially waste everyones time.
for 1 dollar a week you are buying a mild emotional high when checking the numbers That is why I pretend I bought a lottery ticket every week. I gamed the system man!
I also have a pocketpc phone. And mine did not have google maps before google maps even existed. I wonder how you got it running on yours?
Can you read? Do you know algebra? Calculus? What was the civil war? Why was it fought? Who won? What are the three branches of government? How do I calculate force? Why is there no more slavery? What is DNA? Were do clouds come from? How is it that Europeans came to dominate the americas? What are leaves for? Kids actually learn a lot in school. But motivated middle class kids tend to learn a lot outside of school as well because they have access to all kinds of other opportunities. For poor kids school is the only chance they have to learn these things.
This is much more complicated than you think. Some students don't want to be there, fine. It isn't most. And a good teacher can engage a large portion of a bad class. But a good teacher has to be a smart, well trained person. And smart, well educated people basically won't want to work at a job that pays half of what they could make in another career. Its not "kids these days" that are the problem. Its "good people don't want to teach"
I read the article again. This guy is right...why the hell aren't we funding education better? Why are we responding to failing schools by taking money away? Why doesn't this country want to invest in education?
You are right, this is generally a pretty elitist view. Maybe middle class students and up are very tech savvy. The guy is right, science, match and technology education is weak at best in this country. But the rest of kids are the opposite, and this is the problem. Reading a lot of this comments in this thread is annoying, because so many are complaining about "kids that don't want to learn" or boring classes that don't excite students. Someone upthread suggested we stop mandating education. But before you assume that these are serious problems in American eduction let me tell you that they are not really problems at all. I mean, if boring classes drove you from education and left you unemployable and uneducated that is hardly the school's fault is it? Do you think the poor aren't going to college because they are too bored? BUT, before you go out so many people in technology assume that the problems of education are the same ones that smart, generally middle class or better boys have. Or that their upper middle class kids in Palo Alto are some how representative of students at large. I challenge these guys to get out of their neighborhoods. My wife is a teacher in East Oakland. Her school has a total of 0 computers for student use. Zero. NONE. The students also typically do not have computers or internet access at home. They do not have ipods. Some have cell phones. The problem these kids have is not the "stifling" educational environment. The problem is that they are so far behind middle class students they will never catch up. My high school was not particularly challenging for me. I could have learned more there and I learned a lot on my own outside of school. But I certainly have not been handicapped by this experience. But you try going to college with the middle class kids having little to no experience with technology. Before we start fixing education for smart middle class kids (who seem to be doing just fine) we ought to consider making sure that poor kids get access to technology at all or they are going to be left even further behind.
Oh give me a break. Are you seeing more in this than there is? The guy complained about commercial airlines and lamented that it must be nice to have a private jet. He didn't ask to be given one.
Anecdote: where I work Macbook Pros recently became an option for developers. Its kind of a hassle, because you need manager approval, but it is an option. Since this started about six months ago the things are taking over. I go to training and meetings these days and you see a 50/50 mix of macs and standard issue hp laptops. The fact is a lot of people would rather have a mac. The growth seems real to me, I used a mac in college, switched a way for a few years and came back after the intel switch. These things are awesome, great design of the hardware, fast as fast can be and the OS rocks. Whats not to like?
I think the real bubble territory is the Meebos, plaxos and (dare I say it) facebooks of the world. Facebook especially is giving me a .com flashback. "Its a platform! It will change the world! Its the next google!" These companies best case is they get bought.
I think there is a small bubble, but for the most part it isn't a stock bubble, its a VC bubble. Right now in Silicon Valley VCs are falling all over themselves trying to fund some little crappy startup and hoping it will be the next company to flip for a billion dollar acquisition. I suspect that Yahoo is not going to be making many billion dollar startup acquisitions for the foreseeable future and Google is heading for a correction that will probably put a stop to the frenzy as well. And then, sadly, the VC is going to dry up and any web 2.0 startup that can't make money is going to close. Its the silicon valley cycle of life. The .com bubble was an extreme example, but what goes up must come down. I just hope that I can stay afloat through the next downturn.
Good job with that strawman. Boy does he look like an idiot. I mean, that guy thinks you shouldn't be able to arrest terrorists! What an asshole. He thinks killing is ok because republicans do it! And he wants to outlaw drinking, smoking and legalize wife beating. Mr. Coward. If you think that is what liberals think no wonder you don't like them. They sound like idiots! No I don't doubt that you can dig up morons on the internet that actually think these things. But I can tell you that the vast majority of self-described liberals are universally opposed to domestic violence and prohibition. A great number of them smoke. Most of them drink. None of them think you shouldn't be able to arrest terrorists. Almost of all them are opposed to religious extremism and fundamentalism. (do I need to find some choice passages from another popular holy book?) And nobody, I MEAN NOBODY, supports the Iranian government. Holy crap, do you really think liberals think that? Because they don't, ok?
Every major site has XSS vulnerabilities. They are inevitable. You have remember that large applications can have hundreds of developers working on many, many lines of code. It is hard to hit every edge/corner case for every possibility, while still preserving functionality. Many, many sites can be hit with this (even yours actually, look into vulnerabilities with the Expect: header)
I generally agree, although I find ie 7 and firefox tend to work about the same with css and safari quite a bit differently. Now safari's javascript is just plane not very good. Although I heard some improvements were made in version 3, so I am interested to see how that shakes out.
I mean, you kind of expect there are going to be some bugs...this is a Good Thing and the reason you release a public beta, (in addition to getting buzz) you can shake out the bugs.
Yeah this article sucked, but to be fair websites != to "corporate data stuff". MySQL powers the biggest websites in the world because it is very easy to scale very large if you don't mind a little bit of stale data here and there and transactional integrity isn't all that important. Like, if you are running Yahoo. If you are running a bank MySQL wil not do the job.
Where the hell do these "cios" come from? As far as I can tell none of the reasons for or against were particularly relevant. The issue is not MySQL vs Oracle/SQL Server/DB2. It really depends on the application. If transactional integrity is most critical I would go with Oracle (if you have the cash, otherwise PostGres). If integration with microsoft stuff is most critical SQL Server is a no brainer. If the job is some kind of content web site that needs to be quick to start and scale into infinity, MySQL is perfect, especially if performance is going to be more important than transactional integrity. This site seems to confirm my suspicion that the CIOs of the world ought not to be making decisions about implementation unless they solicit a lot of info from the people they have working for them.
"Command line completion in mysql client sucks"
I assume you have not used sql+ with oracle. Command line completion would be a dream! It doesn't even have command history.
Whatever Balmer is on, it is the good stuff. Vista and Zune were under his watch.
I think he was trying to throw a bone to Douglas Crockford, who works at yahoo.
I really don't understand what happens at microsoft. They really do hire the industry's best and brightest. They pay them a lot of money, give them all the resources they need and...they give us vista. And asp.net. wtf?
As I said elsewhere, YUI is a library, not a framework. It is very small and you can include only what you need. I suggest all the people complaining about frameworks are not even addressing what we are talking about here, which is the fact that javascript libraries make advanced JS development possible, because you don't have to waste you time solving solved problems and you can focus on your app.