There's two MIPS cores in the PS2. One in the IOP (the PS1 on a chip), and one in the EE.
Sound is handled seperately by the SPU2, which is two SPUs chained together (SPU being the original PS1 Sound Processing Unit).
The IOP book-keeps the SPU2, reads the controllers, and a few other things (all the external I/O basically). It's actually slightly faster than the original PS1, and has to be slowed down to emulate the PS1. Some people are running their game logic on it, leaving the EE to handle the graphics.
PS2 games can ship on either CD or DVD, it's up to the developer. The copy protection is pretty thorough on both, although the first hack chips have already been announced.
I am a PS2 developer, which probably means I shouldn't comment.
Actually there are two full-screen anti-aliasing tricks. One recquires a lot of VRAM, is relatively slow, but looks very nice. The other recquires no extra VRAM at all, has a minimal speed hit (order of 20 scan lines IIRC), but is slightly lower quality (and can look a bit trippy, hint hint). I'd reveal more, but then I'd have to kill you all.
> I've worked with guys like this before. Not only do they refuse to accept the teams decision, but they continue to profess their negative opinions at every chance possible.
...and don't you just hate it when they're right?
Sorry, but I lost several years of my life by keeping quiet, and going with the prevailing opinion. It's especially irritating when you (because you found the problems, and were the one who kept banging on about them) have to pick up the pieces as well.
> I'd blame the bad refresh and redraw on the old graphics hardware in your machine.
Personally I'd blame the shoddy code. Back when I used to develop Mac applications, we'd make damn sure everything only drew when absolutely necessary. These days I can watch IE redraw a menu three times when under load (VC generating browse info;). There's no excuses, it's just sloppy.
Bollocks. I've written an enormous amount of code, and most of it remains locked up, unused and unavailable. I wrote a database system that could re-format tables on the fly about five years before anyone else could (AFAIIA, I am drunk at the moment though). Bloody company went under due to excessive Porsche consumption, and my code dissappeared with it. Now no-one gets the benefit, but some muppet gets to claim they did it first, and that somehow makes them special, and entitled to monopoly profits? Fuck that shit. Most coding 'innovations' are obvious given enough thought, not that a fucking patent clerk could ever recognise that. Like any half decent coder aims to become a patent clerk.
I DEMAND TO BE JUDGED BY MY PEERS! Fuck the rest of you...
Exactly. What's to stop joe hax0r from applying the dissassembler, locating the check, and nop'ing it out? Having cracked, and written a number of copy protection systems myself, I can say from first hand experience, all it takes is a little time, and a programmer who's strapped for cash. Not that I'd do anything like that these days, not that there's anything worth cracking anymore...;(
>And judging from the actions of Hasbro & Co, most companies don't seem to even care much if they make mistakes that inconvienence users, as long as they keep the majority of people happy and/or oblivious to the problem. (*cough*hasbro*cough*)
Mattel shurely (hic)... really shouldn't post under the influence, but they make it so damn hard to get hold of weed these days that in order to get out of it, I have to drink, and drinking makes me type loudly and incessantly... damn, there goes all that hard won karma, guess I won't be moderating again for a while... still, at least that means IE wont be falling over under the weight of all those pop-list thingies... arse... where's my vodka...?
Not everyone has money. I mean, I can afford to buy every CD and DVD I want now, but in my youth, I had to tape albums from my friends, and the local library.
Now maybe if I hadn't been able to then, I wouldn't be so obsessed now, and the MPAA/RIAA wouldn't have me now as the enormous revenue stream that I am, now that I actually have money.
Even though I know that any copy protection system can be cracked, I hope they succeed, just so they completely alienate their market, and drive themselves into the sea.
I guess we should be gratefull to the MPAA for being stupid enough to pick a format capable of being read by a computer. Thanks Jack, most appreciated.
What, you don't want us to rip them? Well I guess you're going to have to sue THE WHOLE FSCKING PLANET now.
Can, worms, you gotta laugh, unless you're Emanuel Goldstein of course, in which case you have to pray that the appeal, or supremes recognise the inherent stupidity of the whole situation.
The clue for the tea / no tea puzzle was that 'no tea' was listed in your inventory.
The babelfish was easy, getting the right tool for Marvin was the killer as you had to get all of them, otherwise he picked the one you didn't have.
Evil game, I gave up on it when it first came out, then picked it up again, and finished it, when it was re-released in the best of infocom 20 game bundle.
> So what do they do? Draw a whole bunch of polygons using texture set 1, swap in texture set 2, draw more polygons, swap in texture set 3, etc. until the frame is built?
Essentially yes.
> Sorry, rendering didn't work that way last time I checked.
Then maybe you need to check again.
> For several textures to be displayed on the same screen, they must all be in VRAM simultaneously, correct?
Depends on the system.
The PS2 lets you use a z-buffer, which in turn lets you sort by texture. Once you've finished drawing the primitives that use that texture you can swap it out for another.
The DC needs them all in texture RAM, as it renders in tiles, making it impossible to predict the order the textures are accessed in. The PS1 similarly, as you have to z-sort your primitives.
The PS2 has enough bandwidth to swap the whole of the GS's memory several times a frame. VRAM that's on the same bit of silicon as the rasterisers I might add.
Dreamcast, OTOH, seperates the VRAM from the rasteriser by an external bus.
It takes as long to move texture and screen data to and from the PowerVR as it does to swap textures on the PS2.
Be very wary of using such simple metrics as VRAM size when you don't have the full picture.
A pity, since I've heard some amazing dj sets played entirely off of a hard drive, by a dj in full control of real mixing software (autopilot's hummingbird, significantly more than a winamp playlist). Seamless real-time cut-ups, perfect blends, and tricks even the best djs wouldn't have enough arms for.
Computers aren't just there to make your job easier, they also allow you to do things you couldn't have dreamed of previously.
There used to be a email service, back in the late 80s, that used lists of albums / artists sent in by users to suggest artists / albums you might like by correlating with other users lists.
Updating something like that is so obvious it hurts. Of course you'd need some way of listening to the suggested tunes, and buying on-line seems like a no-brainer.
Slashdot Mirror
> Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. --anonymous geneticist
Groucho Marx actually.
You're right about the Saturn, however...
There's two MIPS cores in the PS2. One in the IOP (the PS1 on a chip), and one in the EE.
Sound is handled seperately by the SPU2, which is two SPUs chained together (SPU being the original PS1 Sound Processing Unit).
The IOP book-keeps the SPU2, reads the controllers, and a few other things (all the external I/O basically). It's actually slightly faster than the original PS1, and has to be slowed down to emulate the PS1. Some people are running their game logic on it, leaving the EE to handle the graphics.
PS2 games can ship on either CD or DVD, it's up to the developer. The copy protection is pretty thorough on both, although the first hack chips have already been announced.
I am a PS2 developer, which probably means I shouldn't comment.
On the DC, indeed, on any tile-rendering chip, you store a complete display list in VRAM, as it needs to be processed for each tile.
4Mb is fine, if you know how to use it, and can stream (more like torrent) textures from main RAM.
Actually there are two full-screen anti-aliasing tricks. One recquires a lot of VRAM, is relatively slow, but looks very nice. The other recquires no extra VRAM at all, has a minimal speed hit (order of 20 scan lines IIRC), but is slightly lower quality (and can look a bit trippy, hint hint). I'd reveal more, but then I'd have to kill you all.
> I've worked with guys like this before. Not only do they refuse to accept the teams decision, but they continue to profess their negative opinions at every chance possible.
...and don't you just hate it when they're right?
Sorry, but I lost several years of my life by keeping quiet, and going with the prevailing opinion. It's especially irritating when you (because you found the problems, and were the one who kept banging on about them) have to pick up the pieces as well.
They're Brazilian, and that's portugese. You can download the EP that the track comes from here:
h tml
http://website.lineone.net/~london.burning/ep004.
Read the whole contract, do the maths, don't be a sucker.
> I'd blame the bad refresh and redraw on the old graphics hardware in your machine.
Personally I'd blame the shoddy code. Back when I used to develop Mac applications, we'd make damn sure everything only drew when absolutely necessary. These days I can watch IE redraw a menu three times when under load (VC generating browse info;). There's no excuses, it's just sloppy.
The continual and enforced (if you want to play new games that is) updating of DirectX will snag those that run Win9x earlier than ME.
Does anyone bother reading the articles anymore? Perens is all over it.
>I still despise the EU because it is essentially a conglomeration of socialist irreligious states\
...and every citizen of the EU despises you back.
'Innovative corporations' my arse.
Bollocks. I've written an enormous amount of code, and most of it remains locked up, unused and unavailable. I wrote a database system that could re-format tables on the fly about five years before anyone else could (AFAIIA, I am drunk at the moment though). Bloody company went under due to excessive Porsche consumption, and my code dissappeared with it. Now no-one gets the benefit, but some muppet gets to claim they did it first, and that somehow makes them special, and entitled to monopoly profits? Fuck that shit. Most coding 'innovations' are obvious given enough thought, not that a fucking patent clerk could ever recognise that. Like any half decent coder aims to become a patent clerk.
I DEMAND TO BE JUDGED BY MY PEERS! Fuck the rest of you...
...now where's that vodka gone?
Exactly. What's to stop joe hax0r from applying the dissassembler, locating the check, and nop'ing it out? Having cracked, and written a number of copy protection systems myself, I can say from first hand experience, all it takes is a little time, and a programmer who's strapped for cash. Not that I'd do anything like that these days, not that there's anything worth cracking anymore...;(
>And judging from the actions of Hasbro & Co, most companies don't seem to even care much if they make mistakes that inconvienence users, as long as they keep the majority of people happy and/or oblivious to the problem. (*cough*hasbro*cough*)
Mattel shurely (hic)... really shouldn't post under the influence, but they make it so damn hard to get hold of weed these days that in order to get out of it, I have to drink, and drinking makes me type loudly and incessantly... damn, there goes all that hard won karma, guess I won't be moderating again for a while... still, at least that means IE wont be falling over under the weight of all those pop-list thingies... arse... where's my vodka...?
Not everyone has money. I mean, I can afford to buy every CD and DVD I want now, but in my youth, I had to tape albums from my friends, and the local library.
Now maybe if I hadn't been able to then, I wouldn't be so obsessed now, and the MPAA/RIAA wouldn't have me now as the enormous revenue stream that I am, now that I actually have money.
Even though I know that any copy protection system can be cracked, I hope they succeed, just so they completely alienate their market, and drive themselves into the sea.
I guess we should be gratefull to the MPAA for being stupid enough to pick a format capable of being read by a computer. Thanks Jack, most appreciated.
What, you don't want us to rip them? Well I guess you're going to have to sue THE WHOLE FSCKING PLANET now.
Can, worms, you gotta laugh, unless you're Emanuel Goldstein of course, in which case you have to pray that the appeal, or supremes recognise the inherent stupidity of the whole situation.
The clue for the tea / no tea puzzle was that 'no tea' was listed in your inventory.
The babelfish was easy, getting the right tool for Marvin was the killer as you had to get all of them, otherwise he picked the one you didn't have.
Evil game, I gave up on it when it first came out, then picked it up again, and finished it, when it was re-released in the best of infocom 20 game bundle.
What the FUCK? They MAKE you watch ADS in SCHOOL?
Did your PTA have nothing to day about this?
I dunno, what with all the 'protect the children' bullshit flying, you would've though this was a no brainer.
This country is seriously fucked.
So is it ok to pirate music made with pirated software?
> So what do they do? Draw a whole bunch of polygons using texture set 1, swap in texture set 2, draw more polygons, swap in texture set 3, etc. until the frame is built?
Essentially yes.
> Sorry, rendering didn't work that way last time I checked.
Then maybe you need to check again.
> For several textures to be displayed on the same screen, they must all be in VRAM simultaneously, correct?
Depends on the system.
The PS2 lets you use a z-buffer, which in turn lets you sort by texture. Once you've finished drawing the primitives that use that texture you can swap it out for another.
The DC needs them all in texture RAM, as it renders in tiles, making it impossible to predict the order the textures are accessed in. The PS1 similarly, as you have to z-sort your primitives.
I suggest you do your research in future.
What a crock of shit.
The PS2 has enough bandwidth to swap the whole of the GS's memory several times a frame. VRAM that's on the same bit of silicon as the rasterisers I might add.
Dreamcast, OTOH, seperates the VRAM from the rasteriser by an external bus.
It takes as long to move texture and screen data to and from the PowerVR as it does to swap textures on the PS2.
Be very wary of using such simple metrics as VRAM size when you don't have the full picture.
Man you must go to some shitty nightclubs.
A pity, since I've heard some amazing dj sets played entirely off of a hard drive, by a dj in full control of real mixing software (autopilot's hummingbird, significantly more than a winamp playlist). Seamless real-time cut-ups, perfect blends, and tricks even the best djs wouldn't have enough arms for.
Computers aren't just there to make your job easier, they also allow you to do things you couldn't have dreamed of previously.
...when you can automate the process?
There used to be a email service, back in the late 80s, that used lists of albums / artists sent in by users to suggest artists / albums you might like by correlating with other users lists.
Updating something like that is so obvious it hurts. Of course you'd need some way of listening to the suggested tunes, and buying on-line seems like a no-brainer.
A: Sony already licenses TiVo, and has a unit on the shelves, the SVR-2000.
B: PS2 has enough punt to do the encoding & playback.
C: The final specs of the hard-drive / broadband adapter haven't been announced... yet.
It's not hard to do the math.
They tell me nothing, I guess the rest.
> Don't ask me what else you need...
Competent product designers?
Sticking a translucent coloured plate on the front of a beige box just makes a beige box look tacky, as opposed to dull.
The cube, on the other hand, could have a 4MHz z80 inside, and it'd still be sex on a stick.