1) The event organizers *asked* the police to remove him
2) When one happened and he did not leave he was trespassing, they had more than probable cause they had the kid committing an offense
"He said "Stop holding me down and I will walk out peacefully." That was about 15-25 seconds before they tazered him."
You dont get to tell the police the terms of your arrest, this kid resisted from the point the shut off the Mic to the point he was on the floor. Why would he do otherwise if they let him up? He very well could have bolted or resisted again causing the police to have to re-subdue him which could have resulted in more injury to one of them or the kid himself.
"regardless of whether the police were doing the right thing, the crowd should have tried to save the guy"
Save the guy? Hes not even in jail he was disturbing the peace and resisting arrest, the police overreacted when the physically touched him before asking him to leave but when they took his arms to escort him out he should have went (probably would not have even been arrested). Instead he physically resisted forcing the police to subdue him in the middle of a crowded auditorium talk to any police or security officer and they will tell you this is about their worst nightmare.
If they had all rushed the police the crowd could have helped him.
Ahhh to to 'save' the kid who is resiting arrest from the physical abuse he is getting lets physically abuse the cops who are just trying to do their job.
this is frighteningly close to people being too afraid to do anything when their neighbors are dragged away by the gestapo
Huh? People perform political protest against the establishment in this nation all the time! Marches on DC, marches in major cities? I find it really funny when on one hand many in the anti war movement brag about how big their protest are in cities like DC, NY, LA, Chicago, and MSP and later claim its 1984.
and the threat is clear in the video "stay in your seats or you'll be tasered and arrested too."
given the fact that a police officer is *most* vulnerable in a crowded venue when they are focused on subduing one person that was a reasonable warning.
"According to the federal government, just 17% of rural U.S. households subscribe to broadband service."
This does not equal low availability. I am not saying their is lower availability but you cant prove it by quoting how many avail themselves of a service
"from the article: 'Soon after moving to Gilsum, N.H. (population 811), [Kim] Rossey learned that he couldn't get broadband to support his Web programming business, TooCoolWebs. DSL wasn't available, and the local cable service provider wasn't interested in extending the cabling for its broadband service the three-tenths of a mile required to reach Rossey's house -- even if he paid the full $7,000 cost. Rossey ended up signing a two-year, $450-per-month contract for a T1 line that delivers 1.44Mbit/sec."
So someone who needed something for their business did not bother to see if the area he was moving to provided. Also, why not use satellite service? 50$ a month and the service is not at all bad.
"He pays 10 times more than the cable provider would have charged and receives one quarter of the bandwidth"
His own stupidity..
"BBC NEWS
Wednesday, 1 December, 1999, 21:53 GMT
Hundreds arrested in Seattle
Seattle police have arrested about 200 activists protesting at the world trade talks as they tighten security ahead of a speech by President Bill Clinton."
http://www.sbindependent.org/node/898
"According to Little, it was not the Secret Service that expressed concern to the police, but rather a member of Sen. Clinton's political staff." And protesters were removed..
Hmmm so let me get this straight, you can make an incorrect statement "the temperature on Earth has been rising for over a century" and demand Mars data to correlate to that. When I show your initial premise was wrong you ignore that and still demand mars data
I must say... NICE!
But here I will do some of your dirty work for you: Before you use dust storms as an excuse consider that weather is driven by the sun on earth and though the makeup of the martian atmosphere differers the same hold true there.
"Well, the temperature on Earth has been rising for over a century"
REALLY! I could have sworn there was this period between 1950 and 1975 when it was decreasing.. Oh yea, There was (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling)... See This (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/DSC N4904-nas-a.6_crop.jpg) Its called 30 years of sustained cooling.
You cannot use a planet with a completely different atmosphere as "control data".
Way to stack the deck, Controll the data control the science
. I could pick a random person elsewhere in the world and say that "if that person is gaining weight and you are gaining weight then the source of the weight gain is likely to be the same.
No but if you and the person are eating the same food we might want to look at the food not your cloths right? Do we ignore the fact you have the same diet because you're wearing nikes and he;s wearing roo's (Do they still make those)?
Can we let the Mars thing drop? It's totally irrelevant.
Right so a planet near earth and earth both have rising temperatures. They have the same sun, the same solar winds and about the same exposure to gamma burst... Completely irrelevant..
Or, and I know this is a silly thought on the east side of the pond, they could just make conditions better for entrepreneurs? Did the US government seed Google? Google stated in a garage and overcame significant market inertia ( from the likes of Yahoo ). I could somewhat understand the European fascination with nationalized businesses like AirBus and other utility companies but this is over the top. Just make it easier for some body in their garage to come up with something as good or better than google.
Tivo distributes software expressly intended to run on specific hardware. One of the basic goals of the GPL is to allow any user to modify the software he uses so it behaves the way he wants it to.
Continue to extend that logic and releaseing code which will not work on a given platform is wrong. If I release, for example assembly code under the GPL for the SPARC platform I have, if we take your interpretation, violated the spirit of the GPL because if you want to use it on an Intel chip you can not.
Tivo prevents users from performing such modifications - the software being used, on the Tivo, cannot be modified.
No, it does not. It prevent you from running anything but their distribution on the hardware they sell! you are, in the spirit of the GPL, free to modify their code so it will run on another piece of hardware. The TIVO hardware is *not* under GPL. I line up with Linux on this one: I dislike DRM and what Tivo does but it is *clearly* not a violation of the GPL in act or spirit and rewriting the GPL to force hardware vendors to support modification is going beyond what the license should do.
Its not cooperate abuse of free software... I love it when the community welcomes the GPLing of Java, contributions from IBM and others but when they do something the community does not like they are our evil corporate overlords..
Yea to hell with them and when they start using the BSD License and GNU/Linux starts to take a beating well be asking ourselves why..
That damn well is the issue. Saying that someone has a right to modify software pretty strongly implies that they have the right to use modified versions of software on the hardware that they have.
No, it does not imply that. If I download the source for something I am *not* going to be running it on the hardware I obtained it from, and *nothing* is stopping someone from taking TiVo's offering, stripping out the parts they wish and putting it on a PC. Here is the souce http://dynamic.tivo.com/linux/linux.asp
Tivo is locking down hardware not GPL software.
Anything less and it wasn't really free software.
The GPL protects Users and Developers, the V3 says to hell with developers..
Wow thats one heck of a straw man you have there!
Point A (our straw man) "If either you or Linus can explain why it's good that Tivo can do precisely this"
Nobody is saying that what Tivo is doing is good, what they are saying is the freedom which is enjoyed by GPL2 users is good! Sometimes somebody is going to use freedom in a way you don't like. People voting for candidate X might be really bad but the freedom to do so is good. So take your scarecrow and go play somewhere else
Point B "bad that the FSF are stopping them doing this"
This is bad because the FSF is restricting the right of developers (you know the people who license code) to achieve a direct end. Taking away a freedom to make billy behave the way you want is *not* generally good.
The FSF is telling Tivo, if you're giving our software to your users, you have to give them the ability to change it.
That is *not* the issue and its damn deceiptful of RMS and the gpl3 pushers to say it is. You *can* modify the tivo software, and you have always been able to do so. Tivo has decided to lock down their *hardware* and that is what gave rms a hissy fit.
I just drove from MSP to Crystal Beach and I can tell you the lakes are a hundred times better than the used to be. Though I think it would be great if the Canadians would tell people using their beaches if the water is ok to use.
8am the beach opens and no sign, at 11:30 when I take my daughter back to our cottage for lunch I see a big old 'not safe to swim here'. I ask the woman why they did not tell the hundreds of people with kids on the beach and I got 'meh'...
start hounding your representative/senators to spend more of their "environmental time" worrying about real environmental issues such as this rather than wasting time on CO2/global warming.
In some parts of the world, sure. But in the civilized parts of the world, it means that if somebody accuses the president of sexual harassment, it will be investigated quietly, and only made a big deal out of it, if the president is actually guilty.
And if he lies during that investigation? and as for 'were descreete' After the whole Charles and Camilla thing you have to be kidding..
"Only in America. In the rest of the world, nobody would have asked the president that question. It was a personal matter, and has absolutely nothing to do with his politics. Lying about it was a sensible move, and something just about any sensible person would do."
So in the rest of the world if a past subordinate accused the president of sexual harassment they can not expect an investigation including current similar behavior? that does not say much for the resot of the world.
In your opinion not mine. If I have to whip out an anecdote Ill talk about my grandfather who lived under the Canadian system. When he was diagnosed with bladder cancer he was told he was too old for them to give him chemo he spent a short bit of time getting into the us system where he was treated with chemo. Sadly the time he had to wait meant the chemo did not work but it did add a year or two to his life. Hey but at least Canada was nice enough to foot the hospice bill eh?
"It's the biggest health scandal in modern Britain: according to a World Health Organisation report to be published later this year, around 10,000 British people die unnecessarily from cancer each year - three times as many as are killed on our roads. If Britain had the same services as the best available in Europe, it would save 25,000 lives a year - the population of a small town."
I am not saying the US system is perfect there is room for improvement and at a state level I dont hove a problem with provided health care just not at the fed. That too much power to give to them and if you disagree just realize that *if* Hillary had succeeded in 1993 right now we would have had 6 years of George Bush and the Neocons running healthcare in this nation. the more power you hand government in a Democratic nation the more likely someone who disagree with the person who put it into place will be wielding it down the line.
I live in Minnesota which has the best coverage of any state (I think its around 95% of the population has insurance and all insurance agencies must be non-profit) and I am quite happy with it but I dont think this system should be imposed on, say, Florida..
Slashdot Mirror
1) The event organizers *asked* the police to remove him 2) When one happened and he did not leave he was trespassing, they had more than probable cause they had the kid committing an offense
"He said "Stop holding me down and I will walk out peacefully." That was about 15-25 seconds before they tazered him." You dont get to tell the police the terms of your arrest, this kid resisted from the point the shut off the Mic to the point he was on the floor. Why would he do otherwise if they let him up? He very well could have bolted or resisted again causing the police to have to re-subdue him which could have resulted in more injury to one of them or the kid himself.
Save the guy? Hes not even in jail he was disturbing the peace and resisting arrest, the police overreacted when the physically touched him before asking him to leave but when they took his arms to escort him out he should have went (probably would not have even been arrested). Instead he physically resisted forcing the police to subdue him in the middle of a crowded auditorium talk to any police or security officer and they will tell you this is about their worst nightmare.
If they had all rushed the police the crowd could have helped him.
Ahhh to to 'save' the kid who is resiting arrest from the physical abuse he is getting lets physically abuse the cops who are just trying to do their job.
this is frighteningly close to people being too afraid to do anything when their neighbors are dragged away by the gestapo
Huh? People perform political protest against the establishment in this nation all the time! Marches on DC, marches in major cities? I find it really funny when on one hand many in the anti war movement brag about how big their protest are in cities like DC, NY, LA, Chicago, and MSP and later claim its 1984.
and the threat is clear in the video "stay in your seats or you'll be tasered and arrested too."
given the fact that a police officer is *most* vulnerable in a crowded venue when they are focused on subduing one person that was a reasonable warning.
"According to the federal government, just 17% of rural U.S. households subscribe to broadband service." This does not equal low availability. I am not saying their is lower availability but you cant prove it by quoting how many avail themselves of a service "from the article: 'Soon after moving to Gilsum, N.H. (population 811), [Kim] Rossey learned that he couldn't get broadband to support his Web programming business, TooCoolWebs. DSL wasn't available, and the local cable service provider wasn't interested in extending the cabling for its broadband service the three-tenths of a mile required to reach Rossey's house -- even if he paid the full $7,000 cost. Rossey ended up signing a two-year, $450-per-month contract for a T1 line that delivers 1.44Mbit/sec." So someone who needed something for their business did not bother to see if the area he was moving to provided. Also, why not use satellite service? 50$ a month and the service is not at all bad. "He pays 10 times more than the cable provider would have charged and receives one quarter of the bandwidth" His own stupidity..
"Airbus S.A.S. A380 and The Boeing Co. 787 Dreamliner, when these aircraft enter service"
"BBC NEWS Wednesday, 1 December, 1999, 21:53 GMT Hundreds arrested in Seattle Seattle police have arrested about 200 activists protesting at the world trade talks as they tighten security ahead of a speech by President Bill Clinton." http://www.sbindependent.org/node/898 "According to Little, it was not the Secret Service that expressed concern to the police, but rather a member of Sen. Clinton's political staff." And protesters were removed..
Hmmm so let me get this straight, you can make an incorrect statement "the temperature on Earth has been rising for over a century" and demand Mars data to correlate to that. When I show your initial premise was wrong you ignore that and still demand mars data
/ mars_data-information/data.html
I must say... NICE!
But here I will do some of your dirty work for you: Before you use dust storms as an excuse consider that weather is driven by the sun on earth and though the makeup of the martian atmosphere differers the same hold true there.
http://www-k12.atmos.washington.edu/k12/resources
http://mars.sgi.com/ops/asimet.html
"Well, the temperature on Earth has been rising for over a century" REALLY! I could have sworn there was this period between 1950 and 1975 when it was decreasing.. Oh yea, There was (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling)... See This (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/DSC N4904-nas-a.6_crop.jpg) Its called 30 years of sustained cooling.
Way to stack the deck, Controll the data control the science
. I could pick a random person elsewhere in the world and say that "if that person is gaining weight and you are gaining weight then the source of the weight gain is likely to be the same.
No but if you and the person are eating the same food we might want to look at the food not your cloths right? Do we ignore the fact you have the same diet because you're wearing nikes and he;s wearing roo's (Do they still make those)?
Can we let the Mars thing drop? It's totally irrelevant.
Right so a planet near earth and earth both have rising temperatures. They have the same sun, the same solar winds and about the same exposure to gamma burst... Completely irrelevant..
Im sorry a .1 degree variation can screw up our data so much but you believe the rest of the worlds data is more accurate?
You obviously dont read time magazine who had a whole edition devoted to Gorebal warming..
Youre not from NY are you? the GOP in NY is a joke...
Or, and I know this is a silly thought on the east side of the pond, they could just make conditions better for entrepreneurs? Did the US government seed Google? Google stated in a garage and overcame significant market inertia ( from the likes of Yahoo ). I could somewhat understand the European fascination with nationalized businesses like AirBus and other utility companies but this is over the top. Just make it easier for some body in their garage to come up with something as good or better than google.
Continue to extend that logic and releaseing code which will not work on a given platform is wrong. If I release, for example assembly code under the GPL for the SPARC platform I have, if we take your interpretation, violated the spirit of the GPL because if you want to use it on an Intel chip you can not.
Tivo prevents users from performing such modifications - the software being used, on the Tivo, cannot be modified.
No, it does not. It prevent you from running anything but their distribution on the hardware they sell! you are, in the spirit of the GPL, free to modify their code so it will run on another piece of hardware. The TIVO hardware is *not* under GPL. I line up with Linux on this one: I dislike DRM and what Tivo does but it is *clearly* not a violation of the GPL in act or spirit and rewriting the GPL to force hardware vendors to support modification is going beyond what the license should do.
Its not cooperate abuse of free software... I love it when the community welcomes the GPLing of Java, contributions from IBM and others but when they do something the community does not like they are our evil corporate overlords.. Yea to hell with them and when they start using the BSD License and GNU/Linux starts to take a beating well be asking ourselves why..
No, it does not imply that. If I download the source for something I am *not* going to be running it on the hardware I obtained it from, and *nothing* is stopping someone from taking TiVo's offering, stripping out the parts they wish and putting it on a PC. Here is the souce http://dynamic.tivo.com/linux/linux.asp
Tivo is locking down hardware not GPL software.
Anything less and it wasn't really free software.
The GPL protects Users and Developers, the V3 says to hell with developers..
Wow thats one heck of a straw man you have there! Point A (our straw man) "If either you or Linus can explain why it's good that Tivo can do precisely this" Nobody is saying that what Tivo is doing is good, what they are saying is the freedom which is enjoyed by GPL2 users is good! Sometimes somebody is going to use freedom in a way you don't like. People voting for candidate X might be really bad but the freedom to do so is good. So take your scarecrow and go play somewhere else Point B "bad that the FSF are stopping them doing this" This is bad because the FSF is restricting the right of developers (you know the people who license code) to achieve a direct end. Taking away a freedom to make billy behave the way you want is *not* generally good.
That is *not* the issue and its damn deceiptful of RMS and the gpl3 pushers to say it is. You *can* modify the tivo software, and you have always been able to do so. Tivo has decided to lock down their *hardware* and that is what gave rms a hissy fit.
http://public.www.planetmirror.com/pub/tivo/
Thats right go ahead and take thir code use it as you see fit..
Right, Like Linus... Wait a minute..
I just drove from MSP to Crystal Beach and I can tell you the lakes are a hundred times better than the used to be. Though I think it would be great if the Canadians would tell people using their beaches if the water is ok to use. 8am the beach opens and no sign, at 11:30 when I take my daughter back to our cottage for lunch I see a big old 'not safe to swim here'. I ask the woman why they did not tell the hundreds of people with kids on the beach and I got 'meh'...
Thank you!
And if he lies during that investigation? and as for 'were descreete' After the whole Charles and Camilla thing you have to be kidding..
So in the rest of the world if a past subordinate accused the president of sexual harassment they can not expect an investigation including current similar behavior? that does not say much for the resot of the world.
LOL! I just reviewed that moment from my childhood the other day by watching that scene... eek the 80's.
In your opinion not mine. If I have to whip out an anecdote Ill talk about my grandfather who lived under the Canadian system. When he was diagnosed with bladder cancer he was told he was too old for them to give him chemo he spent a short bit of time getting into the us system where he was treated with chemo. Sadly the time he had to wait meant the chemo did not work but it did add a year or two to his life. Hey but at least Canada was nice enough to foot the hospice bill eh?
1 ,00.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nhs/story/0,,66113
"It's the biggest health scandal in modern Britain: according to a World Health Organisation report to be published later this year, around 10,000 British people die unnecessarily from cancer each year - three times as many as are killed on our roads. If Britain had the same services as the best available in Europe, it would save 25,000 lives a year - the population of a small town."
I am not saying the US system is perfect there is room for improvement and at a state level I dont hove a problem with provided health care just not at the fed. That too much power to give to them and if you disagree just realize that *if* Hillary had succeeded in 1993 right now we would have had 6 years of George Bush and the Neocons running healthcare in this nation. the more power you hand government in a Democratic nation the more likely someone who disagree with the person who put it into place will be wielding it down the line.
I live in Minnesota which has the best coverage of any state (I think its around 95% of the population has insurance and all insurance agencies must be non-profit) and I am quite happy with it but I dont think this system should be imposed on, say, Florida..