In a set-top box I expect everything to be linked together into a single application. I do not expect to have an interface which lets me write programs or obtain applications from an external source.
Nvidia does not distribute their software bundled with the Linux kernel. Because the end-user is responsible for obtaining and installing the Linux kernel, Nvidia does not need to agree to the GPL.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Even assuming they don't change the kernel, if they are distributing it within the box they need to agree to the GPL, which requires that they distribute the source of the kernel, at least. I argue that even though they add only applications and libraries, since they are distributing a complete, integrated package that includes the Linux kernel, the package as a whole is derived from the Linux kernel and thus must include source. It would be different if they were distributing only their applications and libraries, with the end-user responsible for acquiring and installing the Linux kernel.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
If Microsoft distributes a set-top box that includes the Linux kernel, then the product as a whole is derived from the Linux kernel. To get permission to distribute the Linux kernel, they must agree to the GNU General Public License, which requires them to distribute the source of all the software they add to the Linux kernel in order to make their product. This doesn't sound like something Microsoft would be willing to do. Am I missing something?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Spacewar, the first video game, was a multi-player game which ran on one device, the PDP-1 and its Type 30 display. The two players watched the screen together.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I have a couple of small gripes about Eric Raymond's document. Since his web site does not appear to have any feedback mechanism I will post them here. He claims that hardware capacity has doubled every 18 months since the mid-1970s. Actually, it has been doubling at that rate since at least the mid-1960s. Also, a typo: levals should be levels.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
The web site offers the specification as a PDF file, but states that it is covered by the GNU Free Documentation License. That license, reproduced in Section 9, states that the document may be redistributed provided it is editable using free tools, or is accompanied by such a version, or such a version is offered on the Web. If the consortuim offers the document only as a PDF they deny the freedom they claim to offer.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I belive Progfessor Moglen gives himself too little credit. It is the case that skillful, persistent, patient reasoning with people can convince them to do the right thing.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
The "line" you cross is distribution. If I write a program that depends on a GPLed work, such as the Linux kernel, I can distribute it without licensing it under the GPL if I require my users to obtain the Linux kernel from a different source. However, if I distribute the Linux kernel along with my program, as a convenience to my users, then I am obliged to offer the source code not only for the Linux kernel but also for my program.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I don't think there is any proof that availability of kiddie porn increases the rate of sexual assault on children. Indeed, it could be argued that some people will be satisfied by kiddie porn, so the rate of sexual assault on children might decrease.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
How did the "grandstanding bible-thumping asshole" get posession of your friend? Surely Florida didn't agree to extradite him? If he was violating Florida laws then Florida would have prosecuted him. Do I have to worry about a DA in Alabama prosecuting me for my SlashDot postings?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I apologize if I caused any offense. It was not my intent to pick on Denmark, I just chose a (non-US) country name at random.
Contacting local law enforcement sounds much more reasonable than contacting the Web-hosting companies and threatening them with legal action.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
It is possible to argue that child porn is a bad thing, but so far as I am aware, there are no actual studies showing that it causes any bad effects. To be sure, the scarcity of child porn, and the difficulty of getting a grant to fund a study of it probably contribute to the lack of studies.
On the other hand, there is plenty of historical evidence of the harms caused by lack of free expression. If people cannot communicate their sincerely held beliefs in a meaningful way, they become unhappy, and agitate for what they want in clandestine ways. Ultimately, this pressure can build up enough to lead to a revolution that changes the rules in radical ways. Anyone familiar with history who prefers a stable society will advocate free expression rather than censorship.
In order for free expression to work, there cannot be some authority saying what expression is permitted and what is not. Such authority quickly becomes corrupted: the first thing it will forbid is any criticism of itself! Therefore, all expression, even the most repugnant, must be permitted.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I certainly hope that it is not the case that a county court or a state court does not have the power to declare a law unconstitutional. Judges, like other State officers, take an oath to the constitution, not to the legislature.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
"Connolly, the spokesman for the Pennsylvania attorney general, said Wednesday that in such cases involving a Web site with a shared address, authorities contact the Web-hosting companies and order them -- under threat of legal action -- to pinpoint and shut down the illegal pornographic sites."
So Pennsylvania authorities are going to call a Web-hosting company in Denmark and threaten legal action? In addition to being silly, I think that also violates US law. Foreign policy is the domain of the federal government.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
My favorite Massive Multiplayer Role-Playing Game is Slashdot. You get competition, very intelligent opponents, cute graphics, and a persistent score. You can play with a modest PC behind a dial-up line, and you don't need good fine motor skills. Best of all, you can play without paying a monthly fee. How can EverQuest compete with that?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Depending on how you go about it, a CD can be produced for very little. If I were to record a chorus I would bring my Roland VS-1680 and microphones to their rehearsal hall. I would set up six microphones a few feet in front of the singers and have them go through their selected songs while I recorded everything. I would then, back in my home studio, extract the best performance of each song and mix it down to stereo. I can make small quantities of CDs directly on the VS-1680. When they approve the master I send it to a duplicating house who will make a few hundred for about $1 apiece, including jewel cases and simple jacket art. Total cost is about $2 per CD, less if they want thousands.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Thank you. I worked on various aspects of the VMS run-time environment from 1978 to 1992. I am currently the sysadmin for a VAX 4000-50 running OpenVMS 7.3.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Usually I buy CDs at a concert, after listening to the artist(s), but last weekend I found a large rack of CDs in a retail store for $4.99 each, or 5 for $20. I haven't listened to any of them yet, but they had jewel cases and artwork. They are marked as classical music, and at least one was from Hong Kong.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
San Francisco may become a different trend-setter, by banning private cars in the city. Currently they are choking the streets, and the garages necessary to park them occupy valuable land. In addition, there are several public transportation systems in place: BART for regional travel, plus busses, streetcars, cable cars, light-rail vehicles and taxicabs within the city. The last time I visited I landed in Oakland, took a bus to the BART terminal, rode under the water to San Francisco, then spent two weeks as a tourist, using public transportation and my feet to get everywhere I wanted to go. You can certainly get more Segways than cars onto a street, and they are easier to ride than bicycles when you are facing one of San Francisco's hills.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Actually, it was TOPS-10 that appeared at about the same time as UNIX. VMS didn't appear until 1978, but TOPS-10 was one of its ancestors. Descendents of TOPS-10 use the DIR command; descendents of UNIX use the ls command.
The PDP-8 was not the first minicomputer. As its name implies, it had predecessors, including the PDP-7, PDP-5, PDP-4 and PDP-1. I nominate the PDP-1 as the first minicomputer.
Also, the IBM System/360 was not the first computer with variable-length instructions. The IBM 1401 also had variable-length instructions, and I am not sure it was the first.
"doesn't this leave us at the same problem we started with? you distribute a crippled driver which can work but only when your application does the secret handshake. how does this help any interoperability between the hardware and open applications which you don't tell the secret? - Chris"
The problem we started with was to drive the device without revealing intellectual property, not to help interoperability between hardware and open applications. However, there is no need to write a crippled driver. If somebody else wants to write an alternative network stack for the device, that doesn't hurt sales, and may help by providing new uses for the product.
I suggest you divide your code into two parts. Write a device driver which does not reveal any of your secrets but provides support for your application, which uses the device driver to interface to your device but need not be licensed under the GPL. Put all code that would reveal any important secrets into the application.
Slashdot Mirror
In a set-top box I expect everything to be linked together into a single application. I do not expect to have an interface which lets me write programs or obtain applications from an external source.
Nvidia does not distribute their software bundled with the Linux kernel. Because the end-user is responsible for obtaining and installing the Linux kernel, Nvidia does not need to agree to the GPL.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Even assuming they don't change the kernel, if they are distributing it within the box they need to agree to the GPL, which requires that they distribute the source of the kernel, at least. I argue that even though they add only applications and libraries, since they are distributing a complete, integrated package that includes the Linux kernel, the package as a whole is derived from the Linux kernel and thus must include source. It would be different if they were distributing only their applications and libraries, with the end-user responsible for acquiring and installing the Linux kernel.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
If Microsoft distributes a set-top box that includes the Linux kernel, then the product as a whole is derived from the Linux kernel. To get permission to distribute the Linux kernel, they must agree to the GNU General Public License, which requires them to distribute the source of all the software they add to the Linux kernel in order to make their product. This doesn't sound like something Microsoft would be willing to do. Am I missing something?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Scientific American is a magazine. Did you mean Scientific Atlanta?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Spacewar, the first video game, was a multi-player game which ran on one device, the PDP-1 and its Type 30 display. The two players watched the screen together.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I have a couple of small gripes about Eric Raymond's document. Since his web site does not appear to have any feedback mechanism I will post them here. He claims that hardware capacity has doubled every 18 months since the mid-1970s. Actually, it has been doubling at that rate since at least the mid-1960s. Also, a typo: levals should be levels.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
The web site offers the specification as a PDF file, but states that it is covered by the GNU Free Documentation License. That license, reproduced in Section 9, states that the document may be redistributed provided it is editable using free tools, or is accompanied by such a version, or such a version is offered on the Web. If the consortuim offers the document only as a PDF they deny the freedom they claim to offer.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I belive Progfessor Moglen gives himself too little credit. It is the case that skillful, persistent, patient reasoning with people can convince them to do the right thing.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
The "line" you cross is distribution. If I write a program that depends on a GPLed work, such as the Linux kernel, I can distribute it without licensing it under the GPL if I require my users to obtain the Linux kernel from a different source. However, if I distribute the Linux kernel along with my program, as a convenience to my users, then I am obliged to offer the source code not only for the Linux kernel but also for my program.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I don't think there is any proof that availability of kiddie porn increases the rate of sexual assault on children. Indeed, it could be argued that some people will be satisfied by kiddie porn, so the rate of sexual assault on children might decrease.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
How did the "grandstanding bible-thumping asshole" get posession of your friend? Surely Florida didn't agree to extradite him? If he was violating Florida laws then Florida would have prosecuted him. Do I have to worry about a DA in Alabama prosecuting me for my SlashDot postings?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I apologize if I caused any offense. It was not my intent to pick on Denmark, I just chose a (non-US) country name at random.
Contacting local law enforcement sounds much more reasonable than contacting the Web-hosting companies and threatening them with legal action.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
It is possible to argue that child porn is a bad thing, but so far as I am aware, there are no actual studies showing that it causes any bad effects. To be sure, the scarcity of child porn, and the difficulty of getting a grant to fund a study of it probably contribute to the lack of studies.
On the other hand, there is plenty of historical evidence of the harms caused by lack of free expression. If people cannot communicate their sincerely held beliefs in a meaningful way, they become unhappy, and agitate for what they want in clandestine ways. Ultimately, this pressure can build up enough to lead to a revolution that changes the rules in radical ways. Anyone familiar with history who prefers a stable society will advocate free expression rather than censorship.
In order for free expression to work, there cannot be some authority saying what expression is permitted and what is not. Such authority quickly becomes corrupted: the first thing it will forbid is any criticism of itself! Therefore, all expression, even the most repugnant, must be permitted.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
I certainly hope that it is not the case that a county court or a state court does not have the power to declare a law unconstitutional. Judges, like other State officers, take an oath to the constitution, not to the legislature.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
"Connolly, the spokesman for the Pennsylvania attorney general, said Wednesday that in such cases involving a Web site with a shared address, authorities contact the Web-hosting companies and order them -- under threat of legal action -- to pinpoint and shut down the illegal pornographic sites."
So Pennsylvania authorities are going to call a Web-hosting company in Denmark and threaten legal action? In addition to being silly, I think that also violates US law. Foreign policy is the domain of the federal government.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
My favorite Massive Multiplayer Role-Playing Game is Slashdot. You get competition, very intelligent opponents, cute graphics, and a persistent score. You can play with a modest PC behind a dial-up line, and you don't need good fine motor skills. Best of all, you can play without paying a monthly fee. How can EverQuest compete with that?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Depending on how you go about it, a CD can be produced for very little. If I were to record a chorus I would bring my Roland VS-1680 and microphones to their rehearsal hall. I would set up six microphones a few feet in front of the singers and have them go through their selected songs while I recorded everything. I would then, back in my home studio, extract the best performance of each song and mix it down to stereo. I can make small quantities of CDs directly on the VS-1680. When they approve the master I send it to a duplicating house who will make a few hundred for about $1 apiece, including jewel cases and simple jacket art. Total cost is about $2 per CD, less if they want thousands.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
"A powerful set of run-time libraries...."
Thank you. I worked on various aspects of the VMS run-time environment from 1978 to 1992. I am currently the sysadmin for a VAX 4000-50 running OpenVMS 7.3.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Usually I buy CDs at a concert, after listening to the artist(s), but last weekend I found a large rack of CDs in a retail store for $4.99 each, or 5 for $20. I haven't listened to any of them yet, but they had jewel cases and artwork. They are marked as classical music, and at least one was from Hong Kong.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
San Francisco may become a different trend-setter, by banning private cars in the city. Currently they are choking the streets, and the garages necessary to park them occupy valuable land. In addition, there are several public transportation systems in place: BART for regional travel, plus busses, streetcars, cable cars, light-rail vehicles and taxicabs within the city. The last time I visited I landed in Oakland, took a bus to the BART terminal, rode under the water to San Francisco, then spent two weeks as a tourist, using public transportation and my feet to get everywhere I wanted to go. You can certainly get more Segways than cars onto a street, and they are easier to ride than bicycles when you are facing one of San Francisco's hills.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
The PDP-8 was, as you point out, distinguished by its marketing. My favorite PDP-8 advertisement showed the tabletop model with a teddy bear.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
The PDP-8 was not the first minicomputer. As its name implies, it had predecessors, including the PDP-7, PDP-5, PDP-4 and PDP-1. I nominate the PDP-1 as the first minicomputer.
Also, the IBM System/360 was not the first computer with variable-length instructions. The IBM 1401 also had variable-length instructions, and I am not sure it was the first.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
The problem we started with was to drive the device without revealing intellectual property, not to help interoperability between hardware and open applications. However, there is no need to write a crippled driver. If somebody else wants to write an alternative network stack for the device, that doesn't hurt sales, and may help by providing new uses for the product.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)