SONICblue Hits the Auction Block

turkeywrap writes "Looks like there's no hope for SONICblue, makers of ReplayTV and Rio MP3 players. An agreement with D&M holdings (parent company of audio equipment makers Denon) fell through, so now a bankruptcy court will hold an auction for both of the main business units, ReplayTV and Rio, on April 15. Glad I bought my tivo."

Comments

Tivo

[Anonymous Coward]

Does Tivo now have any reason to compete? I see no reason to.

Re:Tivo

[tananda]

Of course not, Echostar would smack it down.

Re:Tivo

[Zathrus]

Does Tivo now have any reason to compete? I see no reason to.

Depends on if TiVo wants to continue existing or not.

Both Scientific American and Motorola are developing PVRs for cable set top box's. And these two companies have huge existing relationships with the cable companies (as in - they sell virtually everything the cable companies need to do business). If you have a cable STB right now take a look at it - it's almost certainly made by one of these two companies (General Instruments are OEM'd Motorola boxes).

AOL is also working on the Mystero box or whatever crappy name it has. Dish Network has their own PVR.

None of these are comparable to TiVo on a feature basis, and often they're missing really big features, but to a lot of people all that matters is price -- and all of them beat TiVo on that because the companies can afford to give the hardware away for free and charge an additional monthly service charge to pay it back as well as pay for providing service.

So yeah, TiVo does have reason to compete. Lots of them.

Re:TiVo

[banzai51]

With Sonic Blue down, TIVO is next in the sights. Expect legal proceedings to begin within the next year.

Re:Tivo

[petepac]

The major player in PVR land is DirectTV followed by EchoStar. These satellite providers bundle the PVR function into their receivers if you want. Makes great sense since there's a kluge with an IR Blaster you need to do with Tivo and ReplayTV to control the other box. Also cable companies like Comca$t have an "OnDemand" service with their digital cable service that also does PVR functions like Tivo.

Tivo really needs to compete since PVR functionality is being wrapped up in other services like satellite and digital cable. Why pay extra for Tivo when your media provider can just roll it up for you. They become another grease spot on the "Al Gore Memorial Information Super Highway".

Re:Tivo

[John_Sauter]

Scientific American is a magazine. Did you mean Scientific Atlanta?
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)

Re:Tivo

[diabloii]

Comcast On Demand doesn't do any recording at all. It functions more like a PVR that can only play, pause, rewind, and fast forward. So, I don't currently see any competition from Digital Cable providers at the moment. Your point is valid about DirectTV and EchoStar though.

Re:Tivo

[Zathrus]

Er... yeah.

Particularly bad brain fart given that I live in Atlanta.

Re:TiVo

[sylvester]

TiVo's now just as recognizable as "Xeroxing" a document

Yeah, right. 'cause my parents have heard of a TiVo.

TiVo is absolutely nowhere *near* as recognizable as Xerox, which is probably still even less recognizable than Kleenex.

Maybe, concievably, amongst 18-25 yo middle & upper class males you have 50% recognition of that term. Amongst the same group I bet you have 80% for Xerox and 90% for Kleenex.

Admittedly I pulled those numbers out of the air, but you've got a twisted sense of reality if you think TiVo is as recognizable of a brand as Xerox and Kleenex.

-Rob

Re:TiVo

[Erasmus Darwin]

"With Sonic Blue down, TIVO is next in the sights."

I have to disagree. There's a fairly clear delination between the features that got Sonic Blue in trouble (automatic commercial skip; sharing shows with people over the internet) and the features that TiVo supports. Furthermore, TiVo's been fairly careful about both partnering with networks (through such features as the TiVo Showcase, which allows networks to advertise specific special shows) and limiting the ability of people to pull TV recordings off the device (as it's enough of a hassle that you're probably better off just using a separate TV capture card in your PC).

The most important thing is that what the TiVo does is generally no different (or even less powerful) than that of a VCR -- at least from the perspective of avoiding advertising and sharing shows. A VCR lets you timeshift programs and then fast-forward through the advertisements. Ditto for a TiVo. In contrast, ReplayTV let you make the commercials automatically disappear. A VCR lets you record a program and then pass that single copy on to friends. A TiVo doesn't even let you do that, though you can view that copy from anywhere in the house. In contrast, ReplayTV let you send out up to ~15(?) separate copies of the show while retaining the original.

So overall, I think you fears are unfounded. TiVo just doesn't have the risky exposure that Sonic Blue had with the Replay units. Even the suit against Sonic Blue was on shaky legal ground, so TiVo should be sitting high and dry.

(As a minor aside, I'd like to clarify my comparison between TiVo and a VCR above. Generally, when people refer to TiVo as a better version of a VCR, I have to correct them. TiVo is better than having a VCR, a couple dozen scrap tapes, a copy of TV Guide, and a trained monkey who knows how to change the tapes and record shows. It blows the entire VCR paradigm out of the water. However, with respect to the issues at hand -- avoiding commercials in television shows supported by advertising and the sharing shows with friends -- the VCR analogy is still fairly applicable.)

Re:Tivo

[eenglish_ca]

No because I would never by any of these products to begin with. On TV I simply watch what ever is on at the time then move to my computer for commercials thus eliminating the need for a PVR. I would also never by an mp3 player as the cards are far too expensive when I can by an mp3/cdrw player than can store over a hundred songs on a single disk. IMHO.

Re:TiVo

[NineNine]

I have to agree. The parent poster apparently doesn't associate much with non-geeks. The TIVO is still very unknown to the general public. What little marketing there has been hasn't been effective at all. I've even tried mentioning it to people, and they have no clue as to what I'm talking about.

Re:TiVo

[Quixotic137]

Well, my parents know what TiVo is.

Seriously though, I agree with you.

Re:Tivo

[Zathrus]

The major player in PVR land is DirectTV followed by EchoStar

Actually you have it backwards. Echostar has far, far more 500-series receivers out there than there are DirecTiVo's.

Makes great sense since there's a kluge with an IR Blaster you need to do with Tivo

Not quite true. TiVo's have a serial port on them that can control DirecTV receivers (and some cable boxes - notably the Motorola DCT-2000 series) if the receiver has a "low speed data port".

Oh... and did you note the "DirecTiVo" bit above? Yup - the PVR capabilites for DirecTV are licensed from TiVo. At one point it the boxes were still controlled by TiVo, but it's flip flopped - all service and billing is now done directly through DirecTV and DTV pays TiVo a licensing fee for the hardware and software.

Re:TiVo

[Eustace Tilley]

google hits on "Xerox": 2,980,000

google hits on "TiVo": 451,000

google hits on "Kleenex": 164,000

You lose

Re:Tivo

[Lumpy]

because the companies can afford to give the hardware away for free and charge an additional monthly service charge to pay it back as well as pay for providing service.


No the reason I don't have any of these PVR's is exactly this reason.

Someone release a Sonic Blue kind of device that works 100% without any damned service. I want to be able to enter a record time and a TEXT TAG FOR IT plus have the nice ethernet connection so I can add record events via the web or share the mpeg2 files to my other unit.

I do not want the tivo guide features. I want to be able to set the clock from the remote, set recording times/events from the remote and from the ethernet port.

and I want it to never EVER communicate to the mothercompany.

make this and I'll buy it for $1000.00

Re:TiVo

[wendyg]

AIUI, the company has said several times that if it fails it will open the TiVo boxes so they can be programmed etc. without the service.

wg

Re:Tivo

[dbrutus]

It's the same thing whether you sell for a high price and no further fees or a low price and monthly revenue thereafter. Somebody has to pay for the further service and lets face it, if the service people don't report to the mothercompany, they *are* the mothercompany.

For example purposes a $100 box with $60 yearly service = $1000 with no service fees when you can invest the difference in price at about 7%.

You might as well have a lawyer cutout to pay the monthly fee for you and let *them* get bombarded with the marketing mail.

Re:Tivo

[Anonymous Coward]

The service, called Mystro, will record shows you want at the cable office. Your current digital cable box will be able to play the programs. Think of it as personal VOD (video on demand). There will be no special cable boxes with hard drives in them for this service.

Re:TiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly, Kleenex needs some internet forums, stat.

Re:Tivo

[The Lynxpro]

TiVo has plenty of reason to compete. Microsoft could buy up Replay's intellectual property and relaunch the patent lawsuits between the companies and run TiVo into the ground. TiVo already is locked out of being bundled in set-top boxes with 2nd string satellite service Dish; AOL Time Warner's Time Warner Cable unit is hellbent upon rolling out the Mystro server based poor-man's DVR; and again, Microsoft is intent upon bundling PVR functions in editions of WinXP and Xbox2... there's plenty of competition left and more reasons to support TiVo...

Re:Tivo

[ePhil_One]

Both Scientific American and Motorola are developing PVRs for cable set top box's. And these two companies have huge existing relationships with the cable companies (as in - they sell virtually everything the cable companies need to do business). If you have a cable STB right now take a look at it - it's almost certainly made by one of these two companies (General Instruments are OEM'd Motorola boxes).

If either of these companies wished to build a true PVR, they'd do well to license Tivo software for their boxes. It would bypass a lot of development time, letting them get a box out the door long before their competitor with a polished, well developed UI. With the two way cable networks, they could completely bypass the need for a phone line (you did know those set top boxes could spy on you, right?)

What these companies are building are "thin client PVR's", where almost all the intelligence is at the head end, where it can't be tampered with. There's plenty of comments out there about how this approach sucks, though potentially there's some advantages to it as well (see my history). Of course, to do it right they'd want a DirecTivo type approach, where the box simply recorded a pre-encoded digial stream (keeps client costs down), but that mean the would need to broadcast a digitized version of analog channels as well, which consumes bandwidth; the best solution would be to reduce the number of analog channels, but then that means TV's w/o a set top box get fewer channels (not a bad thing in cable co's mind likely).

To bad congress/FCC can't legislate a Digital cable standard so TV's could come equiped from the factory.

Re:Tivo

[petepac]

The OnDemand system is a streaming video application that lets you watch when you want. This is PVR (...or VCR) without the record part. People will want to watch when they want and then on to the next show. A disk now replaces the tape cartridge.

I have a ReplayTV and it's great not to hear "...Honey, what's on this Tape?". Real Men Don't Use Labels!!! Now it's just check the menu and watch. The OnDemand part gives you one unit to connect and use just like the satellite solutions. The simpler the better.

The issue arises when the content provider controls the playback device. That's what got Replay into trouble. It sided with the consumer in all different ways. From automatic commercial deletion to opening their interfaces. DVarchive is a great example of this on SourceForge. Why hack the Replay system when you can just offload the content to a PC and access it there.

I hope I can continue to use my ReplayTV the way it runs now. If it dies, I still have a 40Gig drive out of it.

Re:Tivo

[Zathrus]

If either of these companies wished to build a true PVR, they'd do well to license Tivo software for their boxes

I'd think so, you'd think so, but they don't think so. Why? I dunno. Licensing from either TiVo or Replay would've saved them years of development time (SciAtl has been having particular nightmares here), as well as remove some legal issues (like the fact that TiVo can probably sue them for patent violations).

What these companies are building are "thin client PVR's", where almost all the intelligence is at the head end, where it can't be tampered with.

Which, of course, is the real reason that neither wants to license from TiVo or Replay. The two models are pretty drastically different (possibly different enough to obviate most of the patents), and it lets SciAtl/Moto sell head end units at obscene markups and the cable companies can give the boxes away for "free".

And since the storage is being done at the head end I don't think it's an issue for what the channels are broadcast as - there's usually plenty of bandwidth between the cable heads and the central distribution point - the bandwidth crunch doesn't occur until you start going to cable nodes or individual houses.

To bad congress/FCC can't legislate a Digital cable standard so TV's could come equiped from the factory

There is one now, approved by the FCC even, and created by the cable companies themselves. It was mandated into existence by the FCC. One day we may even see the cable companies comply with it! The CE manufacturers have stated that they expect digital cable ready TVs to hit the market in the Summer of 2004. I guess we'll see what happens then. I'm not real familiar with the standard, so I don't know what (if any) provisions it has for outputs from the TV or DRM.

Re:TiVo

[sylvester]

google hits on "Xerox": 2,980,000

google hits on "TiVo": 451,000

google hits on "Kleenex": 164,000

google hits on "Bread": 5,470,000

google hits on "Internet": 143,000,000

Clearly more people eat internet than know what bread is.

Re:Tivo

[Lumpy]

that's not the point. I buy a item I expect that it is my property and it will work 30 years after the company that made it is long dead. TiVo? nope, as soon as they belly-up and the service numbers stop answering the devices are worthless. (wont happen? tell that to iOpener owners and WebSurfer Pro owners or owners of a Divix DVD player)

I dont want any company to have ANY control over my personal property.

That's why I'd pay $$$$ for it. but you cant, and I'm stuck with either the horribly over-complex Myth tv or the much better but still very very early alpha freevo and make my own.

I just want a box that works and doesnt have the un-needed reliance on a master company to control it every 24 hours.

Re:Tivo

[Anonymous Coward]

The big catch here is guide data. Find or start a company that sells high-quality guide data for people to feed into their DIY PVR boxes and you could make this happen.

Otherwise, you're limited to "record this time slot". It mostly works, but fails badly when someone decides to move things around at the network.

Re:TiVo

[Hegemony]

Yeah, right. 'cause my parents have heard of a TiVo.

Mine have, my wife's have, most of my friends parents have (xmas gifts from them), etc. Heck, my dad has TWO Tivo's now.

Re:Tivo

[Anonymous Coward]

but you're wrong...

Explorer® 8000 home entertainment

have a nice day.

Re:Tivo

[ChrisNowinski]

TiVo has said in public that in the event they stop providing service they will "throw the switch" that would get rid of the nag-screens. Also, the most valuable asset TiVo has is the recurring revenue from providing service to it's installed base. If they went belly up, someone would buy that part of the company, just for the $15 a month in revenue provided. Feature freeze, yes, but I like my TiVo fine.

Re:TiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

Generally, when people refer to TiVo as a better version of a VCR, I have to correct them. TiVo is better than having a VCR, a couple dozen scrap tapes, a copy of TV Guide, and a trained monkey who knows how to change the tapes and record shows.

So basically what you're saying is that TiVo is a better version of a VCR. Sounds good, but I'll save $300 and keep using my old VCR for now.

Re:Tivo

[MortisUmbra]

Thats the thing alot of people seem to miss, TiVo is the base for the DirecTiVo series (who knew?). They don't lose anything at all by DTV bundling a PVR in, actually, I'd say they gain more than anything else. The more your company can focus on development, and less on putting hardware together the better off you are. And the wider your userbase is with the least amount of advertising on your part, the better off you are.

Re:Tivo

[cayenne8]

I wonder how many people actually do the monthly route?? I figured it out...and at $15...you'd be at the lifetime fee in about a year and 4 mos. I paid the lifetime fee...be done with it I say, and save $$'s in the long run....

Re:Tivo

[cayenne8]

But, with this model, the recordings are held by the cable co. Meaning they could regulate what shows you can and cannot timeshift...can keep you from skipping commericials...how long you can keep them. And could pretty much keep you from digitally extracting you videos you want to keep...

Re:Tivo

[SmittyTheBold]

As has been noted, TiVo's (target) market isn't to compete with other PVR suppliers, it's to license PVR tech to the providers. They already do this with AT&T Broadband/cable and DirecTV. There may be others that I don't know of.

Re:Tivo

[amuro98]

The parent of this thread just wants a VCR that uses a hard drive instead of tape, and is easily programmable/accessible through the network as well as remote.

As you point out, this type of system is at the mercy of the networks, who love bumping/moving things around - and many of these changes don't even show up on TV Guide's website.

Yes, this means that the box will continue to work no matter what companies come/go. But I'll take the added conviences added in by Tivo.

Re:Tivo

[amuro98]

DirecTiVO is really great... ...except...

I don't have satellite.

I don't want satellite - I get free basic cable.

While I admit stand-alone Tivo's IR blaster feature is quirky at best, I don't need additional hardware for basic cable, which is just fine for me.

Were I to get satellite, I'd probably get Direct TV just so I could specifically get DirecTiVo.

Re:TiVo

[mikegre]

"Home Media Option" is still in the "Coming Soon" phase.

Re:TiVo

[mrpuffypants]

But it's probably going to be released with version 4.0 of their software, which is slated for an early April release

Re:TiVo

[mikegre]

I was at Best Buy the other day and the salesman told me the Tivo rep said the option won't be released until the summer.

Re:TiVo

[mrpuffypants]

he's wrong :)

check www.tivocommunity.com for more info

Re:Tivo

[Lumpy]

Ok, will they send one last update and publish that update for free that will allow one VERY IMPORTANT thing..

the ability to set the time and date.

ther eis no menu function in ANY tivo that allows me to set the time or date. and without that small and insignificant feature it makes the TiVO 100% useless without the pay-to-dial-in feature or the nag you to death and remove features at random for free version. or how about a virgin tivo? 100% useless until you let it dial home and update, removing all the nice features that version 1.X had and adding the crap that 2.x added.

they intentionally wont let you never let it dial home. otherwise they would lose control over other people's property.

I am VERY anti-tivo because of this.

Re:TiVo

[banzai51]

Your forgetting that TV execs have been recently getting their panties in a bind over "illegal time shifting" aka recording like we have always done. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Tivo have a 30 second skip feature? Isn't Tivo going to introduce file sharing soon? Also remember that the TV industries arguements haven't been shot down yet in the courts, so all the same arguements they made against Replay will see the light of day against Tivo. Lastly, Tivo has been tolerent of hacking. Look for that to bite them on the ass.

Re:TiVo

[Erasmus Darwin]

"Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Tivo have a 30 second skip feature? Isn't Tivo going to introduce file sharing soon?"

The 30 second skip is only available by a backdoor. Furthermore, the code to enable backdoors for the latest revision of the TiVo software is unknown -- thus enabling backdoors requires the user to actually login to the TiVo (over the serial port) and change the backdoor code to something that's known (as it's stored as an md5 hash that TiVo hackers were unable to brute-force).

As for the file sharing, I thought I saw something that mentioned it was only within a person's house. That's much more analgous to the VCR/video tape metaphor as opposed to ReplayTV's ability to transmit copies of a show to 15 (or was it 25?) different people over the Internet.

Re:TiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an ass, Erasmus.

I wish...

[psxndc]

I wish this had been posted yesterday. I was thinking of getting a ReplayTV instead of Tivo (I just heard it had more features). I guess this makes the choice easier though. :-(

psxndc

Re:I wish...

[Jaegar]

I wouldn't let this affect your descision too much. The Replay is still a quality piece of hardware that doesn't mess around with all the "user-friendly" features of a Tivo. Maybe I'm just of the mindset that if I want to record something, I will. I would rather not have the Tivo make an educated guess at my tastes.

There's a few companies that are looking into purchasing Replay, one being D&M. All my experiences with them has been fine, and SonicBlue's customer support has always been a black spot on the Replays. The only problem the new owner may run into is the pending lawsuits over Commercial Advance (an awesome feature when it's working), but even if that ability has to be disabled, there's still a 30 second skip button on all the recent models.

So, to make a long post, even longer. If I were you I'd take a hard look at both systems and figure out exactly what out of a PVR. Replay users are not going to lose service, and we tend to be a fanatical bunch. I have three myself.

Re:I wish...

[psxndc]

And it's people like you that made me lean towards Replay to begin with. Thanks for your comments.

psxndc

Re:I wish...

[Jaegar]

No problem. If you feel like it, check out www.planetrepay.com. Before their lawsuit it used to be a great place to get shows you missed, but there's still a forum to request whatever commercial broadcast you missed. The rest of the forum is a good place to ask questions and get some help.

Re:I wish...

[spanky1]

Maybe I'm just of the mindset that if I want to record something, I will. I would rather not have the Tivo make an educated guess at my tastes.

Weird. That's just what I do with my TiVos. It's an old troll to use this against TiVos. If you don't like suggestions, turn them off. But suggestions will *never* waste hard drive space or be recorded instead of something you *chose* to have recorded. Bah.

purchasing Replay, one being D&M ...

Did you not even read the article synopsis?

Re:I wish...

[deanj]

I've had a ReplayTV since the very beginning, and I love it. When news of this bankruptcy hit, I bought a TiVo that same day.

Unfortunately, the D&M deal fell through. It may be that D&M picks up the assets at auction later this month, but until the auction happens things are still up in the air. Until then, we just have the word of ReplayTV that the guides will last until the end of this month. After that, it's completely up in the air.

That is, if we just stick with their service. I haven't done a single bit of hacking on my Replay, but I would imagine we'd be able to get some code written to get SOME sort of guide working.... does anyone have any idea if a project like that is underway?

BTW, the 30 second skip feature has been there since the beginning. Love that feature. :-)

Regarding TiVO, a couple of things:

The TiVo only records on educated guesses using unused space on the device.

It has USB ports for ethernet (and other stuff, I would guess..haven't looked into that too much) so program guides can be set through the net. This was a great thing for me, because I have one of the original ReplayTVs and didn't have an mods for Ethernet.

The new 4.0 software upgrade will support wireless USB ethernet devices. The (cough) $99 HomeMedia option will allow streaming MP3s and pictures to be sent from your PC, and will allow sharing of programs between multiple TiVos in the house. The first upgrade costs $99, the upgrades for additional TiVos are $49 each.

Anyway to the original poster, bottom line, if you can wait, just wait until this Replay thing sorts itself out. It'll only be a couple of more weeks. If ReplayTV survives, find a friend with one and check it out. Find a friend with a TiVo and check that out too.

But whatever happens, get a PVR. These things are freakin' awesome.

Re:I wish...

[AKnightCowboy]

The new 4.0 software upgrade will support wireless USB ethernet devices. The (cough) $99 HomeMedia option will allow streaming MP3s and pictures to be sent from your PC, and will allow sharing of programs between multiple TiVos in the house. The first upgrade costs $99, the upgrades for additional TiVos are $49 each.

Doesn't the ReplayTV already do all that for free? Why do you have to pay $99 to upgrade a TiVo to support something as simple as playing mp3's from a PC? Let me guess, you need Windows software to stream it to the TiVo right? I'm glad I waited on the ReplayTV too! That just cements my decision to just build a Linux-based custom PVR, maybe using MythTV. Ahhh, Debian GNU/Linux in the living room. I just need to make it quiet enough and find a decent case so the wife doesn't kill me.

Re:I wish...

[deanj]

I have an older model ReplayTV, so I don't know for sure what they offer. And I agree with you about the $99 upgrade. I think it's something they should offer for free, but then again, I'm not sure how much I'd use it. I'd originally thought that the $99 fee was required to get the wireless networking to work properly, and even at that price it would be MORE than worth it for me... I wouldn't do it for just the MP3s and pictures though.

I'd be interested in hearing how people's experiences with building a Linux-based PVR, or using one of those PC-based PVR setups have gone. I've heard the quality just isn't as good, but don't have any first hand reports from people with both devices that can give a comparison.

If you build one of those things, there are bunch of silent PC sites out there that'll help you get the stuff to make it quiet enough. In my experience, getting everything quiet in a PC is pretty straight forward. For my PCs at home, the drives are the noisiest components, and I'm going to replace those with Barracuda drives (or something else, if someone can recommend something) soon.

Good luck with that project. :-)

Re:I wish...

[Anonymous Coward]

"The TiVo only records on educated guesses using unused space on the device."

Hogwash! Tivo records in several modes including:

1) Recording based on guide information (one time, season pass, or "wish list" keyword searches). This is the way most people record. If the guide data changes (i.e. - the program moves to another night), Tivo will record the program at the new time/date.

2) This is like VCR mode. Set the time and date and it records. I NEVER record this way because the guide data is so reliable.

3) Tivo suggestions. Tivo will try to guess what programming to record based on your "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" voting in a particular program. I leave mine on, because it never preempts programming I have specifically selected, and it never uses up disk space for programming I have selected.

Re:I wish...

[richardtallent]

Yes, the guide data protocol (RNP) has been reverse-engineered and people have been successful at retrieving guide data and setting the internal clock through some proxy tricks. Check the AVS Forum for more details. One caveat: no one is sure exactly how monthly-subscribed units (vs. lifetime) will end up reacting if/when SB's activation servers go offline. I'm sure someone will figure that out, but it is an open question for now.

External guide data may actually be a boon for Replay users, the existing Replay guide database does not support "big-dish" systems, Canadian cable systems, PPV channels, etc., and it would be really neat to be able to tweak the channel-renumbering scheme. In addition, by running your own "guide server," you'll have infinite control over which channels appear, how the guide data is formatted and truncated for space, filtering, etc.

Re:I wish...

[Zepalesque]

The D&M deal fell through.

Re:I wish...

[cayenne8]

Well, you can turn off the Tivo suggestions. I think it is actually a neat function, in that it can find shows you might like that you would otherwise, with so many stations available out there, not ever know about. My situation is that Tivo rarely if ever has room to record suggestion shows....my wishlists, key words, and season passes more than keep my Tivo filled with programming I want to watch...when I want to watch it. I know everyone says it will change the way you watch tv, and it was VERY true for me. I rarely if ever watch live tv. I notice that I haven't watched much about the war lately tho....

Re:I wish...

[Babbster]

One caveat: no one is sure exactly how monthly-subscribed units (vs. lifetime) will end up reacting if/when SB's activation servers go offline. I'm sure someone will figure that out, but it is an open question for now.

My educated guess is that if nobody is going to continue the service, existing ReplayTVs (and those that are still unsold) will be "locked open" so that at the very least the "manual record" function (standard timer recording as on a VCR) will still work, even without any authorization or guide data. Clearly, this would still be an awful outcome for anyone who's gotten used to PVR functionality (like myself, where I've owned my Showstopper - ReplayTV by Panasonic - since the day they hit store shelves) but it would still be better picture/sound quality than 99% of the VCRs out there.

Too bad...

[WestieDog]

We just bought a rio S10 (64 on board, up to 512M more on sd card) and my wife thinks it's the best mp3 player she's ever owned. I mean it's no Ipod but then again we only paid $100, and it's solid state.

Re:Too bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

I also just bought an S10. You'd better make sure you go and download the latest version of the firmware to your S10. I guess this crushes any hopes that they will continue to revise the interface and support future formats. However, while the company still exists, we can get our hands on version 1.8 of the firmware.

Re:Too bad...

[Max Threshold]

Check out the rioutil project on SourceForge. I built 1.3.3 on RH8 and it works great with my S10 (except I have to be root, but I probably just need to change the permissions on something.) They've got a mostly working firmware updater last I checked. No actual open-source firmware yet, though, but who knows. Necessity is the mother of invention. Maybe they can make it play oggs....

What about the ReplayTV users?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not being the U.S I have no idea, but does ReplayTV not operate on the same basis as Tivo E.g. you pay a subscription to recieve the programme data? If that's the case, what will happen to all the ReplayTV users? Would there be anyway to recieve data from an alternative source, or are they all S.O.L?

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[MindStalker]

Well the Tivo can be hacked to use an alternate provider as the Tivo runs linux at its core. While the replay doesn't and is much harder to hack. So I would assume they are SOL, but I'd be willing to bet that the service part will be auctioned off, and someone will buy it, but possibly not.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[RobotRunAmok]

There are a number of billing services (e.g., CableData) in the US who routinely prepare various flavors of program schedule downloads and attendant metadata for the purpose of populating cable TV on-screen displays, billing systems, etc. The DBS providers (DirecTV et.al.) do their own collation. I gotta think this is a great opportunity for one of these shops to expand subscriber base substantially without adding much work.

These companies have already whipped the toughest part -- establishing a regular system wherein the networks provide you with the info in a form you can manipulate -- so the rest should be gravy.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[stevew]

At the same time -there are external apps already available that let you get mpeg files off of your Intenet based replay (Model 4000 and up) and the Replay has the commercial autoskip which is the REAL advantage.

If Replay goes away - what happens to the TV guide provision? Great.....

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[Erasmus Darwin]

"Not being the U.S I have no idea, but does ReplayTV not operate on the same basis as Tivo E.g. you pay a subscription to recieve the programme data?"

With TiVo, you either pay after the fact -- either a monthly subscription fee ($10/month) or a larger one-time fee that covers the lifetime of the unit ($250).

With the ReplayTV units, the service is "free", but the retail price of the units are a few hundred dollars more expensive (or at least they were when I compared prices). So even though there's no explicit subscription fee, you're essentially paying for the same thing as a TiVo with lifetime service.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[stevew]

Well - they would have to buy the rights from Replay I would imagine. The replay's are hardcoded to specific addresses/phone numbers to get this info - along with a specific format.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[splatter]

"With the ReplayTV units, the service is "free", but the retail price of the units are a few hundred dollars more expensive (or at least they were when I compared prices). So even though there's no explicit subscription fee, you're essentially paying for the same thing as a TiVo with lifetime service. "

Sorry your wrong...
Both have the same payment options. Either a one time lifetime fee, or a monthly payment.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[deanj]

Original ReplayTVs, way back at the beginning, had a lifetime subscription built into the cost. Sometime after that, they went to a subscription model of about $10 (or so) a month, or you had the option to buy a "lifetime" subscription. What this did was allow them to lower the initial cost of the units to be more in-line with that TiVo did.

I don't know of any other way to receive program data, so I think we ReplayTV owners will be SOL for program guides. It'll still function as a VCR like device...I think. I'm not sure about that though. I've never let the program guide run out or be erased to check.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[SubtleNuance]

The replay's are hardcoded to specific addresses/phone

You mean hardcoded in EEPROM? no one would be stupid enough to do that (i hope..)

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[Mr. McGibby]

Well - they would have to buy the rights from Replay I would imagine.

I think the argument before was that if Replay goes out of business, then the format of the schedule data would be worthless, but "some dumb judge would say that it's actually worth something." Well, I think the parent poster correctly points out that it *is* worth something, to these other companies, and they would be willing to buy the rights to it.

The replay's are hardcoded to specific addresses/phone numbers to get this info - along with a specific format.

I'm sure that with a little doing, these companies could secure the same addresses and phone numbers and would buy the format from whoever ends up owning it.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[Anonymous Coward]

That is incorrect. The ReplayTV runs Linux as well.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[JUSTONEMORELATTE]

Well the Tivo can be hacked to use an alternate provider as the Tivo runs linux at its core.
While the replay doesn't and is much harder to hack

Sheesh man, don't you have any idea where you are? This is slashdot, for Pete's sake!
--

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[brianosaurus]

The first generation ReplayTV units, and the first fun od second generation (replay 4000) had "free" service, but (as stated) the price was $200 more than a comparably sized Tivo, so it all evened out.

However, consumers in the store seeing a $400 vs $600 price tag would go for the $400, even though they still had to pay for service, so ReplayTV changed their pricing scheme. They dropped the unit price by $200, then added a $250 service fee (or $9.95 a month, or something).

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[Erasmus Darwin]

Oops. Seems I was out of date, and they added the ReplayTV subscription option late last year. It also seems the monthly subscription fee I quoted for TiVo is incorrect ($12.95/month now).

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you are incorrect. ReplayTV runs a proprietary OS that Replay licensed/developed from a private company. It is NOT running Linux. TiVo does run Linux.

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[presto8]

It seems to me that Panasonic (who licensed Replay for use in their Showstopper series) will have a vested interest in keeping the Replay service alive so they don't get a black-eye by abandoning their customers.

The same would be true for Sony or Philips supporting the Tivo service if Tivo were to go out of business...

Re:What about the ReplayTV users?

[grumling]

To enable autoskip on Tivo:

select, play, select, 3, 0, select. Tivo will respond with 3 chimes.

TiVo

[mrpuffypants]

As much as people speculate that TiVo is going under (about as much as the rumors that Apple will fail as well) they seem to be a company with well-defined goals and a good marketing plan.

TiVo's now just as recognizable as "Xeroxing" a document, or buying some "Kleenex". Now that they've entered the lexicon for a large part of the world I think they will have tremendous staying power.

Also, they've treaded lightly in regard to their new "Home media option," which allows people to share TV shows across a home network, and play pictures and music on their TiVo's. A careful use of copyright protection has, so far, kept them out of the legal wranglings that SonicBlue had to face the minute that every major media company in the world sued them after the ReplayTV product announcement.

What if...

[Quixote]

Glad I bought my TiVo

What if it was the other way around, and TiVO was going under? Obviously you wouldn't be too happy (of course), but the bigger question is: will SONICBlue release the specs of their service, so that others can now provide it ? Would TiVo release these specs if they were going under? Or will the bankruptcy court treat these as trade secrets, worth some monetary value to the creditors, and prevent the release?

I'm just wondering what the future holds for such fee-based services, where the fees are taken upfront. Will the people who forked over the $300 (or whatever) for "lifetime service" be considered creditors too? Shouldn't they be?

Re:What if...

[mrpuffypants]

The word from TiVo is that if they ever go bankrupt that they will send out a "unlock" signal to all of their boxes which will allow them to do DVR functions, obviously w/out service updates or guide info from TiVo.

You could do things like pausing and rewinding live TV and setting manual recordings, but nothing like "Season Passes" would be avaliable.

Re:What if...

[Zathrus]

the bigger question is: will SONICBlue release the specs of their service, so that others can now provide it ? Would TiVo release these specs if they were going under? Or will the bankruptcy court treat these as trade secrets, worth some monetary value to the creditors, and prevent the release?

TiVo stated once upon a time that they'd do this. Fat chance. A judge will certainly rule that this is information of value and prohibit any official release of information.

That said, there are TiVo hackers that have figured it all out already, at least for Series1 boxes. The S2 boxes are locked down more tightly (although it's being cracked very, very slowly), so dunno about that yet. DirecTiVo's aren't even under the perview of TiVo anymore, so unless DirecTV went tits up you'd still have service on them.

Will the people who forked over the $300 (or whatever) for "lifetime service" be considered creditors too? Shouldn't they be?

They are considered creditors. Of the lowest class (which is pretty much where creditors are anyway in bankruptcy court). Most creditors are lucky to see ten cents on the dollar after bankruptcy court, so it may be that you'd get a few more months or weeks of service and that'd be it. Depends on how the judge rules... with the obvious issue that pissing off your customers is not a good way to get out of bankruptcy. Based on that I'd be surprised if any judge would invalidate the lifetime service option.

Oh, you mean what happens if the company went really and truely bankrupt? And nobody bought the assets? Well, then you're still being treated like a creditor. And you're getting the same thing any other creditor in your situation would get - absolutely nothing. The various bits of IP may be sold off, but that doesn't mean you'll get access to any of it - including things like how to download scheduling data.

I suggest you look into what happened to any one of the failed "Internet PC" companies to see what would happen to your hardware. Unless you hack it, you're going to wind up with a large doorstop.

Re:What if...

[TopShelf]

The question however, is whether this is built into the service agreement with customers, or is just "their word." In bankruptcy court, the secured creditors would hardly let something of value like that simply slide out the door.

Re:What if...

[sneakcjj]

Will the people who forked over the $300 (or whatever) for "lifetime service" be considered creditors too? Shouldn't they be?
Lifetime is the life of the company or the life of the product line (which ever ends first), not YOUR lifetime.

Re:What if...

[MarkGriz]

The TiVo hacking community would be quite capable of "unlocking" the box, or getting it to download alternate program guide information if it came to that. They have not so far because they have no desire to piss TiVo off, but would rather peacefully coexist. TiVo has been generally supportive of the hacking community and will probably continue to be, so long as no attempt is made to deprive them of their main source of revenue (subscriptions, not hardware). I'd venture to say that Tivo's support has probably gone a long way in helping promote their product.

The TiVo community forum is a great resource for all thing TiVo. Having just got a Directv Tivo box (which is awesome, by the way), I intend to be spending alot of time there, learning as much as possible.

Re:What if...

[guacamolefoo]

Will the people who forked over the $300 (or whatever) for "lifetime service" be considered creditors too? Shouldn't they be?

They are considered creditors.

Correct so far.

Of the lowest class (which is pretty much where creditors are anyway in bankruptcy court).

Wrong. Creditors come ahead of the equity owners of the company. Unsecured creditors, which is what the customers essentially are, are in a poor position, but they do not have the last tit -- that is reserved for the lucky, lucky investors (i.e. the people whose money was just pissed away). You might know them as "shareholders" or "the rich" or "pension plans" or "your 401(k)" or "mutual funds".

Most creditors are lucky to see ten cents on the dollar after bankruptcy court,

Depends on the company and the type of creditor, but secured creditors can do quite well in bankruptcy. Sometimes, it is groups of creditors that force a company's hand and put a firm (or individual) through an involuntary bankruptcy. While you may feel thoroughly evil when you do such a thing (I did this once), it can really save a creditor's bacon to shut down a company rather than letting it flounder under a shitty business plan or under shitty management.

so it may be that you'd get a few more months or weeks of service and that'd be it.

Probably right. Two types of bankruptcy exist for businesses -- Chapter 11 (reorg) and Chapter 7 (liquidation). Chapter 7 is death city. Sell it all, pay creditors according to a plan that the bankruptcy trustee devises and that the bankrutcy judge approves. Chapter 11 lets the company convert debt into equity (usually) and it lets the company shitcan some contracts that it has, reaffirm others, and basically try to salvage the cashflow positive business segments while jettisoning the shit. This tends to help out customers, employees, and creditors. Some suppliers and customers and equity owners get killed, but the net disruptive effect to the economy is much reduced versus killing off the whole company in a liquidation.

Depends on how the judge rules...

And what the trustee's plan is. Ans what the creditor's committee comes up with.

with the obvious issue that pissing off your customers is not a good way to get out of bankruptcy.

Au contraire. If you can jettison certain contracts, including money-losing ones with customers (which means throwing some consumers overboard) you might actually save the rest of the business. This results in a more stable foundation for serving your other customers in profitable segments, and increasing their willingness to do business with you. Businesses don't want every customer, they only want profitable customers. My business fires clients all the time and I note significantly that we are nowhere near bankruptcy. Sonicblue can do that in bankruptcy and help themselves out tremendously. There may be some blowback, but it will fade. Plus, blowback beats the hell out of destroying the company to try to keep an unprofitable business segment afloat.

Based on that I'd be surprised if any judge would invalidate the lifetime service option.

It's really not up to the judge. It is up to the trustee. The "lifetime service option" is just a contract. Sonic Blue will be able to determine which contracts it wants to void and which it must honor. I bet they toss the replay tv business. Then, the "value" of those services becomes an unsecured debt that goes to the end of the creditor line. The judge will then rule on a plan for sonic blue that the trustee comes up with, subject to input from the creditors (and it is unlikely that the replay tv people will collectively or individually have much say). I doubt that the replay tv people will get much love under these circumstances.

Don't get your hopes up -- you are likely looking at an unpleasant screwing and you won't even get a reach around. I'm not being a troll here, it's just that you need to be realistic about what is going to happen. Bankruptcy is not a place for rose-colored glasses.

GF.

Re:What if...

[mrpuffypants]

Yeah, that's a great website. Just to show you a measure of how open TiVo is with the community, they host that forum for free on their servers but still don't have a great deal of editorial control over what is posted there. If somebody breaks their NDA then stuff gets taken down usually, but that's about the extent of the control they have over the forums.

Also, many TiVo staffers post there very frequently as conversations about TiVo and their policies arise on the forums.

Overall, a very open community and company.

Re:What if...

[cayenne8]

Well, they're not quite so nice to the 'hacker' community these days. The series 2 boxes are more locked up...I didn't know this till I bought mine. Right now, about the only way you can really hack into them now, is to take out an eeprom, and put a custom flashed one in its place. On the Series 2 boxes, the hardware comes up, and does a check on the kernel with a public key from tivo to check the signature on the kernel, then as the kernel comes up, it checks all the files in the filesystem to make sure they are properly signed. Anything not signed is removed...if things are not in order...the box will start to continually reboot. The series one boxes were more easily modified. Tivo seems to have put their foot down on this on the new ones. So, doesn't seem they are quite as friendly...if they were, why put all these drastic measure in?

Re:What if...

[Cramer]

No, TiVo does not own and/or operate the AVS Forum.

Re:What if...

[grumling]

They also have the best tier I tech support folks I've ever delt with.

Not only did they trust that I've already done the usual power cycle type steps before calling, they were more than happy to get me a replacement unit based on what I told them.

What went wrong?

[iamchris]

What're your thoughts on why it REALLY went down? Price point for Replay? Difficult to hack? SONICblue's legal bills? People asking "What is a SONICblue??"

Re:What went wrong?

[Jedi Alec]

Working for S3/Diamond back when they decided to change their name to SonicBlue, my first guess was a sound-related kind of depression. In hindsight, I wasn't all that far from the truth...

Re:What went wrong?

[spanky1]

The hackability of TiVo is certainly awesome, but I doubt that even 5% of TiVo users hack their system. The price between the two systems has always been comparable, so I doubt that was it either. It probably boils down to marketing and the legal battles.

I'm glad TiVo is playing it safe and not implementing features that piss off the networks (automatic commercial skip, sharing of recorded shows, etc). The ReplayTV had some great features that TiVo lacked, but it got the networks on their bad side.

In any case, I can already rip shows off of my TiVo and burn them easily to VCD or SVCD. The only real problem is my TiVo is WiFi-enabled so a 1 hour show takes like 3 hours to transfer. 100mbit would be better but I haven't run Cat5 all over the place.

Re:What went wrong?

[brophey]

'm glad TiVo is playing it safe and not implementing features that piss off the networks (automatic commercial skip, sharing of recorded shows, etc). The ReplayTV had some great features that TiVo lacked, but it got the networks on their bad side. Well, TiVo is just now implimenting their new set of features (Called HMO I think, Home Media Option) for their Series 2 players. Not only does it let you play mp3's and pictures on your TV, but it allows you to send shows to OTHER TiVos. But only inside your current household using some kind of encryption technique. In other words, they're being very careful about this feature.

Re:What went wrong?

[deanj]

I've owned one from the beginning, and lived through the SonicBlue buyout of the original ReplayTV company. Their biggest problem was that they didn't go for a subscription for these things from the beginning. The "lifetime" subscription was built into the cost of the unit. This made the price point much higher than TiVo, and given the choice between the initial cost of a ReplayTV and a TiVo, people picked the TiVO. Nevermind that a lifetime subscription buyout for TiVo made it the same price as a ReplayTV... People didn't look at it that way.

After they fixed that, the biggest problem was that they never got "mind share" (did I really use that phrase....shoot me now!) for the product the way TiVo did. Tell anyone about a ReplayTV, and they're more than likely to say "Oh, like a TiVo".
I don't think I've ever seen a ReplayTV commercial in all the time I've owned one.

They had been trying to OEM these things to other companies that do set-top boxes, but I think in the end, the companies decided to do it for themselves, rather than partner with SonicBlue.

It's a great device....and fun while it lasted.

Re:What went wrong?

[MarkGriz]

The name "ReplayTV" was a poor choice IMHO. Too many damn syllables. It hardly rolls of the tongue like Tivo does.
I doubt that alone lead to their downfall but it certainly didn't help them in the brand recognition department.

Re:What went wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that they have a history of dubious financial decisions that saddled them with debt. Spending millions on a new office in Tigard, Oregon, and then shutting it down last fall. Eliminating the only profitable part of the company (Communications Division, you know, Supra-branded products). Buying Micronics/Orchid when they were Diamond Multimedia.

This is a happy day for me, I've been waiting to see them go under since I was laid-off by them in 2001.

Re:What went wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

>I don't think I've ever seen a ReplayTV commercial in all the time I've owned one.

That means it's working! ;)

Which business units?

[KDan]

Which business units are affected? all? SonicBlue makes pretty good mp3 CD players (not to mention the rest), so it's a bit of a shame if that goes down... though now I've got my iRiver iMP400 I can hardly complain :-)))

Daniel

Re:Which business units?

[ajlitt]

Funny thing is, SonicBlue never made any of their own MP3-CD players. The first few (100, 90, 250) were all rebadged Reigncom (the OEM for iRiver) models. The latter ones (150, 350) are made by some Chinese OEM (Starlite maybe?)

9th of April approaching

[Anonymous Coward]

did anybody notice that today in a week is April 9th. Eric's birthday. And we all know what happened on Dylan's birthday...

Well, it's not like they've been busy...

[dschuetz]

I've got 5 Rio products -- 4 Rio Receivers and one Rio Riot. I love 'em all. They've still got the best features I've seen (the Riot's interface is still far beyond that of the iPod or any other HD portable I've seen). And the Receivers are finally selling at what I think is the ideal price point ($75-100, on eBay).

Unfortunately, SonicBlue never really supported any of these products. They bought a fantastic HD-based car MP3 player (empeg), and promptly killed it off -- even as major manufacturers were starting to integrate MP3 playback into cd players (and now, finally, cd-changers).

They started selling the Rio Receiver, but at too high a price point, and they never updated the software. And now, there are at least three other commercial MP3 receivers from "big companies" (onkyo, phillips, and motorola), but all of 'em are (get this) even MORE expensive than the Rio Reciever was. SonicBlue could have undercut the competition, released some software upgrades (there's a great open source movement on that front that they could have tapped into), and kicked major ass.

All in all, it's been a disappointing ride for customers like me. I'm really glad that the Receiver is so open (people have re-written just about every part of it except the HomePNA kernel module). At this point, I think the best thing that could happen would be for the original empeg/receiver engineers to buy the car and home receivers back and open-source the hardware. Get a flourescent screen, better CPU (for high-rate Ogg decoding), and even cooler open-source client/server software.

But probably some other company will buy the rights and bury them. :(

We need separate content from hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

You propably won't care much if manufacturer of your VCR, TV or DVD-player will go under. If PVRs would be open and could fetch program information from multiple sources (like XMLTV) they would be much more attractive.

no networked dvd player

[Anonymous Coward]

so much for the networked dvd player.

http://www.sonicblue.com/shop/_templates/item_ma in .asp?model=168&cat=37

Great example

[rollthelosindice]

Xerox. They filed chapter 11.

Napster

[Anonymous Coward]

I got nothing.

ReplayTVs are still selling on ebay right now

[techstar25]

ReplayTVs with lifetime subscriptions are still selling on ebay right now for $200+. Should I feel sorry for the people who don't know the news?
Can ReplayTVs be programmed like a VCR to record like TIVO does? I guess it's not a total loss. On ebay however, they're being advertised as LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION!

Re:ReplayTVs are still selling on ebay right now

[Jaegar]

I seriously doubt that people with a lifetime service agreement are going to be left twisting in the wind. The new company that purchases the Replay line will pick up the lifetime service obligation for the sheer reason that it wouldn't want to alienate it's new user base. Plus, since SonicBlue allowed users to pay by the month with the release of the 45xx and 50xx series of Replays, there is a large percentage of the user base that is paying monthly. It's a decent revenue stream that is fairly steady for the new company.

With the Replay, you can manually record a show. Of course, every time I use it, I feel dirty. It's that same sort of dirty that comes from touching my VCRs.

Re:ReplayTVs are still selling on ebay right now

[Galvatron]

The new company that purchases the Replay line will pick up the lifetime service obligation for the sheer reason that it wouldn't want to alienate it's new user base.

No, they don't care about pissing off their USER base. They care about pissing off their CUSTOMER base. If you paid SonicBlue for a lifetime subscription, then SonicBlue goes belly up, and sells thier customers off to someone else, the new company is only going to care about those people that will bring them in new revenue. A new company will have no interest whatsoever in providing a service for free just because you paid another company a couple hundred bucks once upon a time.

Re:ReplayTVs are still selling on ebay right now

[TheRaven64]

No, they don't care about pissing off their USER base. They care about pissing off their CUSTOMER base.

Of course their main customers are likely to be people who have heard about how great a ReplayTV is from someone who owns one. If current owners are favourably disposed towards the new owner, then this makes them more likely to recommend their products. A happy user base leads to a large potential customer base. Oh, and don't forget that users may wish to buy upgrades, add-ons and even a second one for their other TV.

Of course the new owner may not realise any of this and discontinue the service for existing owners...

assets (IANAL)

[asv108]

I think the company and the courts would realize that the service specs are by far the most valuable asset of the company. There is no release of an asset in to the public domain when a company is in bankruptcy, it doesn't make any sense. When a company hits chapter 7 (Chapter 7 not 11), they enter a state of liquidation, from my understanding of liquidation the idea is to distribute the proceeds from the sale of assets fairly amongst the creditors who are owed money. I'm sure those creditors are not interested in giving away assets to charity while they loose millions.

Re:assets (IANAL)

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, 'Lose', not 'Lose', save us!

Lifetime (not the channel)

[Fammy2000]

Lifetime = Life of the company = April 15 - April 2 = 13 days.

Woohoo!

Don't forget GoVideo

[aredubya74]

With the pending bankruptcy, this product might have been vaporware used to stoke investor interest. But man, do I wanna buy one:

GoVideo® D2730 Networked DVD - World's First Networked DVD Player!

"The GoVideo Networked DVD Player is a high end, slim-line Progressive Scan DVD player, and is the first player of its kind to be able to stream video files through a wireless network to a consumer electronics component. The Networked DVD Player works with either a wired PCMCIA Ethernet Adapter (included) or an optional PCMCIA 802.11b Wireless Network Card. The D2730 can also stream MP3 and WMA audio files and JPEG image files, as well as MPEG1 and MPEG2 video files."

Yes, I can roll my own (even stylishly, with a Shuttle XPC. Yes, I can do so with a cool Linux distro (can't remember the couple I've examined off the top of my head - anyone? Bueller?). But I sure as hell can't do it for $250, which was the SRP for this unit.

Re:Don't forget GoVideo

[hendridm]

According to their latest press release, they're selling their GoVideo assets to Opta Systems.

"In addition, SONICblue has entered into a definitive agreement with Opta Systems, LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of Carmco Investments, LLC, which is expected to acquire substantially all of the assets of SONICblue's GoVideo business unit for approximately $12.5 million. The terms of the sale of these business units will require the approval of the Bankruptcy Court."

What's interesting is the fact that Opta/Carmco are nearly non-existent in a Google search except when referenced in the above press release for purchasing some of SB's assets.

Re:Don't forget GoVideo

[Anonymous Coward]

What's interesting is the fact that Opta/Carmco are nearly non-existent in a Google search except when referenced in the above press release for purchasing some of SB's assets.

This is a Japanese investment firm that has the major stake in Denon. The rumor is that Go Video will be back under its original management. Go Video employees that I've heard from seem to be pretty happy about the deal. I've also heard that they are going ahead with the D2730, though it will be a month or two late.

Wasn't Replay spyware of some sort?

[mrmeval]

I thought Replay was going to install some sort
of involutary Neilsen system in their units.

They also were an odd bunch as well.

Re:Wasn't Replay spyware of some sort?

[durbinshroom]

I'm not sure about Replay doing this, but TiVo does collect info about viewing habits (some very specific info)

Granted, I think it's kind of cool to learn this kind of info, and since it's all aggregate info I don't really see the harm...selling this kind of info might be saving us a few bucks on our subscription.

Re:Wasn't Replay spyware of some sort?

[mrmeval]

If it's the 'bulk' of the herd data, maybe, but it allows niche products to be dumped quicker.

I'd prefer if the cable companies and providers had to guess LONGER if a show was (un)sucessful, at least I can get a few more of my favorite shows in before they cancel it. Since I like mostly scf-fi themed shows, delays in accurate information are usually a good thing. Of course the converse could be true the these entites go for bulk profits.

I'd been wondering when the digital cable boxes, the ones that display obnoxious ads to a captive audience, start doing directed advertisements based on your viewing preferences.

I also am now wondering when you'll get viewing directed popups and stuff you cannot control while watching your favorite show, changing the channel[1], having the TV come on at full volume in the middle of the night with a constipation relief advertisement and a screaming Austrailian yammering that if you're unable to sleep it's cause you hadn't eaten your food out of his new 'rooDung Ware. Not to mentione the bizarre and random channel changes to some new show that's on.

Cable companies could (er will) make it a requirement to whomever manufactures such devices that you'll get bombarded with ads even when you've recorded something. Fast forward might actually work, except on those commercials that paid a fee.

Hmm, we need to get anonymous money really working so people who hate this can pay people who know how to remove it.

J.

[1] I have seen where when changing the channel on one of those boxes at a friends house would require two or three presses to get past a channel. Until this very instant I didn't think it was anything more than poor quaility equipment. And it is poor quality so that's probably it.

WOULD SOMEONE RIPUP THIS CRAP AND LET US PARANOID TYPES KNOW FOR SURE.

Yet, somehow....

[David_Bloom]

Yet, somehow, they managed to get RedHerring's "Top 100 Companies Most Likely to Change the World" award (see left column on that link).

They're just changing the world differently now, by their absense.

SonicBlue invented many nifty products, including, obviously, the MP3 player (invented under its former name, Diamond), the audio set top box (they made the chipset in DELL's box), and many other innovations. They'll be missed.

I just placed a bid on eBay!!

[Anonymous Coward]

SonicBlue is going for $4.00 with a Buy it Now price of only $7.99!!!

SonicBlue Auction

I'm not going to pass this deal up!

Re:I just placed a bid on eBay!!

[MoeMoe]

Small note: read a little more carefully next time around, it's for "instructions on getting any electronic free" and BTW the picture shows a Rio MP3 player...

Re:I just placed a bid on eBay!!

[42forty-two42]

Started Apr-01-03 22:27:23 PST

Congratulate the MPAA

[Eccles]

They sued Sonic Blue, and not too much later the company has to declare bankruptcy. Think expensive legal costs might have pushed them over the edge? Seems likely to me.

I say we all go smack Jack Valenti.

Don't move to Oregon, we lost another employer.

[Baloo Ursidae]

Oregon is full. Demonstrating this: SONICblue, based out of the Portland-metro area city of Tigard, was a sizable employer here. If you're in Oregon and not born there, I'll take this opportunity to remind you that it's generally polite to leave when you're finished visiting out-of-state.

Re:Don't move to Oregon, we lost another employer.

[maxume]

I heard that it was good form to leave when you were born, unless your great great great great grandparents were born there, and then only if thier parents were part of the original Oregon Trail.

Maybe someone was talking out of thier ass?

Re:Don't move to Oregon, we lost another employer.

[indiigo]

Wilsonville has about 3,000+ jobs waiting to be hired. The area is exploding right now.

Re:Don't move to Oregon, we lost another employer.

[rsmith-mac]

Before anyone freaks out, this is a paraphrase of Gov. Tom McCall's motto of Oregon being "a nice place to visit, but don't stay", as a way to keep Californians from moving here.

Re:Don't move to Oregon, we lost another employer.

[Baloo Ursidae]

Whose side are you on? Traffic's bad enough without all the extra permatourists...and the only place I've seen hiring in Wilsonville is Fry's Electronics.

Re:Don't move to Oregon, we lost another employer.

[peripatetic_bum]

does that mean oregon doesnt want people to move in or that they want to keep the state more 'pure'?

Please hold out until December...

[alexhmit01]

I want to replace my ReplayTV with an HD Tivo when they ship. I have one of the Panasonic Showstoppers. The thing that is a killer... with the hard drive update, my box would sell for $400 on eBay. However, if the service is discontinued... :( Oh well, price of technology... I don't know what I'll do if Replay cuts service before HD DirecTivo ships, I don't want to buy two DirecTivos... :(

Now if DirecTV committed to HMO, maybe I would, so I could move the DirecTivo Series 2 to the bedroom when HD Tivo ships...

A nervous customer...
Alex

Propartory PVR's

[rf0]

Its sad to see yet another company goto the wall. I recently got my first PVR in the form of Sky+ and it has changed my viewing habits. i.e. I watch what I want when I want. The difference is that I'm basically having to pay a reoccuring fee to the TV provider rather than a 3rd party.

This in itself does make me think that its the best solution as it does intergrate with Sky but I do pay for that privilige. For example TiVo's are no longer being solded in the UK so its a one horse race. What it does mean however that I don't think Sky will be disappearing any time soon.

As for the actual cost that is another argument totally

Rus

Re:Propartory PVR's

[Anonymous Coward]

Pardon me, but what is a 'propartory pvr'?

Too Bad

[ShishCoBob]

This is too bad. The Rio Volt is, IMO, by far the best mp3 cd player on the market. I bought one when they first came out and I still haven't seen one I like better. As far as I can remember it was the first one with a fair sized display on the front hat was back-lit. I can't remember any others at the time that did. It had the features that everything does now with ID3 tag display and so on. Since I bought mine they came out with the three different models of them. They were nicely constructed too. I've dropped mine down some stairs a time or two and not even a scratch. I still use it almost every day and works great.

I remember when..

[rf0]

I remeber buying for first Reo when it was made by Diamond Multimedia, along with the S3-Virge card. I loved it and still use it to this day. The interface was simple and worked well. Its sad to see the Reo story end like this

Rus

ReplayTV not worthless

[mik]

It is highly likely (IMHO) that Replay will end up being purchased by D&M or a competitor - after all, there is both a significant installed base of users and a non-trivial revenue stream from subscriptions in addition to the IP of the DVR hardware. Heck, maybe even TIVO will bid.

IANAL, but I would think that any purchaser of the replay business unit would be responsible for honoring existing service contracts, including those lifetime subscriptions. If the contracts are breached by replay (e.g. by the buyer or even by replay simply folding), then the owners of the abandoned subscriptions would be due damages and/or part of the auction proceeds.

If the service is abandoned for any reason, it is pretty clear that the replay hacker community will no longer need to restrain themselves - people have been *very* supportive of replay and have tended to come down pretty hard on anyone looking to steal services. If we owners are abandoned, we'll be moving into reverse engineering mode bigtime!

Re:ReplayTV not worthless

[tgibbs]

IANAL, but I would think that any purchaser of the replay business unit would be responsible for honoring existing service contracts, including those lifetime subscriptions.

Well, those lifetime subscriptions are a substantial liability, not an asset, and an obstacle to another company picking up the business unit as is. I suspect that the best that Replay TV owners can hope for is that somebody else will offer a replacement subscription service--at additional cost.

Re:ReplayTV not worthless

[Realm Lord]

How is it such a liability? The lifetime subscription is not a lifetime warranty. I doubt they have to make a guide for each individual ReplayTV u nit. All they have to do is put up a server and feed it guide data. That or just give the open source guys the info they need on the guide (whom have already been working on a guide replacement) and be done with it.

Re:ReplayTV not worthless

[tgibbs]

Any service necessarily imposes customer support costs proportional to the number of customers. And everybody who has lifetime service is a customer who cannot be sold service by the new company, reducing the value of the acquisition. It would be more profitable not to buy the rights from Replay at all, but simply reverse-engineer the service and sell it independently as a replacement for the service lost when Sonicblue goes under.

Re:ReplayTV not worthless

[Anonymous Coward]

Any outcome where the money I paid for a lifetime subscription does not get honored could be very unhealthy for SonicBlue principles, kharmicly speaking.

Re:ReplayTV not worthless

[tgibbs]

Any outcome where the money I paid for a lifetime subscription does not get honored could be very unhealthy for SonicBlue principles, kharmicly speaking.

Unfortunately, SonicBlue is dead, and most likely your "lifetime subscription" is, too (bet you thought it was your lifetime, not theirs). Sadly, the most likely outcome is that ReplayTV owners will get stuck with a nearly useless piece of hardware (although hackers may figure out how to do something worthwhile with it). I had this happen to me with an earlier, excellent product called Videoguide, which had an on-screen program guide and controlled a VCR. Unfortunately, it got bought up by a competitor (the people behind the far inferior VCR+) who immediately discontinued the service.

It's possible that somebody else might be willing to pick up the service. But the likelihood that former "lifetime subscription" owners would not be willing to pay again is a big impediment.

Might be an opportunity for Tivo, though: "Send us your old ReplayTV, and we'll give you $50 off a new TiVo."

RioSport S35S

[chargen]

I just picked up one of these this past Saturday. It's the mp3 player with the best user rating out there. The only issue I might be faced with now is a replacement for the special USB cable that comes with the thing. It's got a funky (and I mean Funky!) connector on the Rio end which I've never seen before! If I ever lose this one or want a second, I might be SOL.

Well let's hope for the best for this innovative company...

-Pete

Re:RioSport S35S

[Col. Panic]

Yeah, we might want to order replacement cables while they are still available. I just ordered a 256MB SD-MMC card and specified 2-day shipping. After 4 days I contacted UPS, which said they had no further information, but there was something wrong with the bill. I contacted Sonicblue and they said they had a problem with shipping where _all_ their packages received the same UPS tracking number but they were going to have it all resolved by that night.

I finally received my order 8 days after the original order was placed. BTW the box on the S35S says it is only expandable to 256 MB, but if you look at the website, there is a firmware upgrade that allows it to take the bigger cards. I updated my firmware and now am running 384 MB on that little Rio!

It rocks, so I hope someone buys the product line and continues support. It would be a shame to lose a product that delivers what it promises.

uuuhhhhh.... Micro Soft? (!!!)

[Thud457]

I thought Sonicblue was working with Microsoft to sell Replay TV.

WTF happened with that?

How could a company paired with the mighty Microsoft fail? (Where's my tinfoil hat?...)

A good reason to buy Linux based appliances

[smartin]

I love my Tivo and am happy to pay the Tivo company for my listings and updates, but if they go out of business i'm not to worried because the Tivo is an open system. My investment is resonably safe because there is a development/hacking community built up around the box and it will continue to work and be supported by the community. This illustrates an important reason to buy Linux based products from a consumers point of view. Many of these new devices are great but aren't guaranteed to survive. If you buy a device based on a closed technology, it will probably be useless if the vendor goes out of business, if you buy one based on an open technology, you at least have a chance of it still being useful. Cases in point are the Audrey and Rio Receiver.

Re:A good reason to buy Linux based appliances

[MarkGriz]

The Audrey is quite hackable. You should check out this or this

Re:A good reason to buy Linux based appliances

[Psykechan]

Although the TiVo units are built around a PPC Linux kernel, it is not an open system. Everything that runs on top of the kernel (myworld, etc.) is not GPL and definitely not open.

I like to compare TiVo to the Apple Macintosh. Both are closed systems with a very large user dev/hack community. The fact that they have an underlying open source base doesn't change anything.

Re:A good reason to buy Linux based appliances

[smartin]

I disagree, the fact that the Tivo is Linux based makes it much more accessible to the hacker community.

Re:A good reason to buy Linux based appliances

[Mr. Slippery]

I love my Tivo and am happy to pay the Tivo company for my listings and updates, but if they go out of business i'm not to worried because the Tivo is an open system.

Actually, the Replay has been pretty well reverse-engineered. I think that even if the company goes belly up, enough is understood about the protocol for something to be hacked up to keep mine running

Re:A good reason to buy Linux based appliances

[leighklotz]

The Audrey is not an open system, and it is not based on Linux. It is based on Qnix, which is free for non-commercial use. The Audrey applications themselves are closed, and were developed by a third party (not 3COM). I am fairly certain that that at least the Address Book application uses GDBM, which is a GPL'd library (not LGPL) and as such they should have released the applications under GPL. There is (or was) an active Audrey hacking community, at http://www.audreyhacking.com.

Disclaimer: I have an Audrey, a Rio, and an I-Opener, plus a few other pieces of tech detritus I'm more embarrassed to mention. Not that I paid retail for any of them...

Sad

[Okkenbom]

Well, I for one think this is very sad. I've had my Rio 500 since December '99 and it has served me very well. When it crashed due to a firmware error, they were very nice about it and sent me a new one cost free from the Netherlands all the way to Norway.

Greg Ballard Strikes Again

[szquirrel]

Hey, what do you know. The same guy who piloted 3dfx down the toilet was at the helm when SonicBlue went tits up.

Look, I understand that CEO is not an easy job, but how much accountability is this guy held to when investors are left holding the bag of his failures?

Re:Greg Ballard Strikes Again

[egarland]

Wow! 3DFx was an impressive company with really good technology. I was a NVidia man my self but up until the end I debated the wisdom of my choice. 3DFx had sound technology, loyal customers, and some really powerful IP (their multi-chip rendering was by far the best.) It takes a real moron to run that strong of a company into the ground. It would seem from the outside that they could have backed off, sured things up and lived to see another day. I can't believe someone else hired him! What the hell are these people thinking?

I chose ReplayTV over Tivo a long time ago. I'm a big Linux fan but I just couldn't get over the 10/100 ethernet port and all the cool options it represented. They used http for interaction with the box which is wonderfully flexible. It was a nice modular architecture with lots of expantion possibilities. And months went by and nothing happened. And more months and more nothing. I haven't had a software update on the box for almost a year and there are issues that need to be fixed. The company has been complietely impotent.

In my experience, there is a type of person who loves to be in charge and should never be allowed to do so because they suck at it. They see most successes as their's and most failures as someone else's. To them, every prolem has an easy solution and it's the best one. I have been blessed to work with some great people who know how to encourage, lead by example, trust in the wisdom of the people who know what they are talking about, and stick to what they do best.

You can blame these things on bad engineers, small budgets and other logistical issues but let's face it: A good leader *makes* things happen. An average leader *let's* things happen. It takes a bad leader to stop things from happening and I get the feeling that's the type of leader Greg Ballard is.

Re:Greg Ballard Strikes Again

[The Lynxpro]

Perhaps Ballard was really brought in to steer SonicBlue successfully toward bankruptcy and asset auction like with 3dfx. Perhaps he is considered a success in these endeavours... a bankruptcy Chainsaw Al...

Re:Greg Ballard Strikes Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, I understand that CEO is not an easy job, but how much accountability is this guy held to when investors are left holding the bag of his failures?

Well, if you're really a cynic. Find out where he goes from here, wait a while, and then short their stock.

Re:Greg Ballard Strikes Again

[FueledByRamen]

Damnit, I liked 3dfx. I still run a Voodoo3 3000 AGP with 16mb of texture memory on my craptastic PC. It gets 20 FPS in 1024x768x16bit Quake 3. 3dfx technology powers my favorite arcade game - Hydro Thunder. Its death was unfortunate, as they had some great technology for their time (and some truely asinine leadership).

Sadly, I never knew SonicBlue. Never wanted or bought any of their products.

Re:Greg Ballard Strikes Again

[Anonymous Coward]

they could have backed off, sured things up and lived to see another day.

'sured things up'?!?? They could have done a what?!?!!

Re:Greg Ballard Strikes Again

[GlassHeart]

Look, I understand that CEO is not an easy job, but how much accountability is this guy held to

Your concern is entirely understandable, but all it does is to create a kind of professional scapegoat CEO who goes from dying company to dying company turning off the lights. This can be lucrative, because they get paid CEO salaries, but don't actually have to fulfill any company ambitions.

Meanwhile, the person actually responsible walks off to a different executive job, obviously with a much more relaxing severance package than the rest of the suc^H^H^Hemployees. The real problem is that Boards of Directors are filled with... CEOs from other companies! Life at the executive level really does consist of scratching each others' backs.

Interesting...

[BigJimSlade]

CostCo just started carrying the ReplayTV a couple weeks ago, which requires a subscription to its service. Wonder how many shoppers are going to get screwed by this one?

Re:Interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

Costco, nobody is screwed there. Just return it whenever, like a year from now! Supposedly you can get a full refund for a lifetime subscription from ReplayTV in first 30 days. I think you could probably dispute the charge if you don't get the refund. Maybe 60 days in if AMEX?

Anti-TiVo FUD

[Foosinho]

In interests of full disclosure, I own a DirecTV PVR (formerly called DirecTiVo).

The anti-suggestions bit is pure FUD. It's a zero-impact feature when on (ie, it _NEVER_ uses tuner or space that would otherwise be used by a program you specifically requested), and it can be turned off. I leave it on expressly because it's zero-impact, even tho I rarely watch suggested programs. Every once in a while I don't want to watch anything in the recorded list, and I'll find a gem in the suggestions (a movie I hadn't seen, or a syndicated rerun of Simpsons).

That said, I _love_ my TiVo. I considered a Replay, but the TiVo was a better choice for me, since I was also getting DirecTV at the same time. I like the Replay procuct, especially all the networking capabilities. It's a shame the company is struggling.

Re:Anti-TiVo FUD

[dmanny]

I was drawn to your comment because I was presented with it for meta-moderation for one of the interesting mods. I certainly agree that it is interesting -- so much so that I wanted to reply.

I have two TiVo's, first series, non-satellite tuner. I must say that I have to slightly disagree with you than it is a zero-impact feature, although I will allow that it is a relatively low-impact one.

What would make the recording of suggestions feature better would be if they would simply put the tuner back on the channel they found it. During most times, I like to leave the tuner on the weather channel. Currently I would like to leave it on CNN because of the Iraq situation. After some three years, when I have had automatic recording of suggestions turned on, the number of times that I have sat down and tried to watch live TV during the recording of a suggestion is very low. However the number of times that I find the damn box has changed its own channel is quite high. These days I have been keeping the suggestions turned off, but as you probably know we are still subjected to automatic recording of promotional material. Is it too much too ask that they simply modify the code to restore the tuner back to its previous state? Evidently so, I submitted the suggestion a long time ago.

Since having TiVo, I have married. The reason for the second unit is that it was once at my wife's house prior to us getting married. I didn't like living without one at her house. Call me sexist but the other reason why we do not use the feature comes as no surprise to my guy friends that I have mentioned this to. If I turn it on, my wife complains. I can not effectively relate her rationale beyond the fact that she doesn't like anything or anyone messing with stuff in her control. No matter that empty space is useless and that the auto-recorded programs would be the first to be sacrificed, she just doesn't like it. The same attitude makes her manually maintain the last three Sesame Street episodes for our daughter as opposed to simply letting them age and die.

Re:Anti-TiVo FUD

[neonzebra]

I love my DirecTiVo too. But did you know that DirecTV is totally screwing their DirecTiVo customers by deciding not to offer the TiVo Home Media Option? Sign the petition here.

Re:censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

There was an easy work around for that (that DID NOT involve logging in); if you couldn't find it by yourself you probably shouldn't be here. Please go play somewhere else.

WiFi on Series 1

[spanky1]

... to get the wireless networking to work properly, and even at that price it would be MORE than worth it for me...

I have two Series 1 TiVos and both have 802.11b cards inside them. It's awesome, but WiFi is kind of slow and it takes about 3 hours to transfer 1 hour of video to my PC for burning to a VCD/SVCD. :-)

It is not a difficult hack, but it is only compatible with Series 1 TiVos for now.

Mindset

[tgibbs]

Maybe I'm just of the mindset that if I want to record something, I will. I would rather not have the Tivo make an educated guess at my tastes.

I'm of the mindset that likes to have a choice. So if I want my TiVo to do this, I'll turn the feature on. If I don't want it to do it, I'll switch it off.

Re:Mindset

[MarkGriz]

I agree. I've only had mine for a week and it's already recorded a few interesting things that I probably never would have seen otherwise.

I've been careful to "thumbs up" on some manly programs, just so my Tivo doesn't think I'm gay ("not that there's anything wrong with that")

Re:Mindset

[tgibbs]

Yes, initially I was going to turn it off, but I was surprised at how good it was. It has definitely turned me on to a show or two. While I only occasionally watch the suggestions, most are at least things that I might watch. And it's a handy visual indicator of the amount of free space left on the HD.

Empeg

[SuperQ]

Of course, the Empeg design team is still working on software projects for Rio. We're all hoping the death of SonicBlue does good things for the Empeg.

In another year or two, we could see another serious attempt at automotive mp3 players.

ReplayTV not usable without subscription

[TheRocketMan]

I have a ReplayTV (4580) and paid for one month when I got it to decide if I wanted to keep it (~6 months ago). I was late on paying the next month, and the unit was not usable without the subscription. It kept flashing back to the "your subscription ran out" screen when I tried to access any of the functions, even replaying what it already recorded.

I'll give a fiver for the S3 part

[Mr.roboto]

I've always wanted a few extra of their GPUs for keychains. I went nuts when I found out they bought Orchid back in the day.

I really wanted an Empeg

[Wee]

They bought a fantastic HD-based car MP3 player (empeg), and promptly killed it off

I was all set to buy an Empeg, until I saw a posting on their web site (before they were bought) that said the next version due out would have a PCMCIA slot. That meant I could throw an Orinoco card in there. That meant I could hack up some scripts which would let it rsync up to my main server at my house once I pulled into the driveway. That meant I would have paid double what they were asking.

As soon as SonicBlue bought the makers of the Empeg I forgot all about ever owning one. If you ever wanted to see a company that cared about cash, and little else, look to SonicBlue. They just aren't (weren't?) a company I had any faith in. It's sad. The Empeg could have been really big. If SonicBlue had never entered the picture it might have.

-B

Re:I really wanted an Empeg

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an empeg, and you should still get one. (Look on ebay). People have done what you are talking about by using the built in ethernet and getting a wired to wireless adapter, or just by sticking a WAP in their car.

Once you have one, you can't go back to using CDs.

Re:I really wanted an Empeg

[c.george]

I got an empeg a long time ago and still consider it one of my best investments. It still does not have any equivalence in the market.

Also, The key thing is that the empeg community continues to survive. You only need to check the empeg forum at http://empeg.comms.net and figure out that all that you neeed (wireless sync) is possible with the current setup (yeah, even w/o the pcmcia slot.

BTW, Software Upgrades from the empeg developers do trickle in at a decent rate.

Re:I really wanted an Empeg

[Wee]

Thanks for the tips. Maybe I'll head over to ebay and see if I can find one for sale...

-B

Quit bashing TiVo...

[The Lynxpro]

TiVo was smart enough to make themselves synonamous with PVR technology. They were smarter in the subscription based model from the get-go and that caused them to leapfrom ReplayTV. By the time SonicBlue purchased Replay, the game was already up. Did it make me mad that when TiVo launched Series2 they did not bundle it out of the box with USB 2.0, Firewire, or a built-in ethernet port? Yes. But I went ahead and purchased it because I enjoyed my old Series1 and I had a gut feeling Replay would tank. Sure, if you want broadband on a TiVo, you have to buy a USB-to-ethernet dongle (if you are going wired) and you also have to pay $99 for the Home Media Option if you want to stream MP3s or photos, program via the net, or share programs with other TiVo units in your home. Does that bite? Sure, but it is causing TiVo to become profitable and that adds extra to the value of the user experience since the company isn't going under. As a matter of fact, that counts for a whole lot.

Re:Quit bashing TiVo...

[Anonymous Coward]

hey, idiot....

He's not BASHING TIVO YOU DUMBASS!!!
Tivo isn't made by sonicblue, therefore he feels BETTER about buying a TIVO.
MORON.

Re:Quit bashing TiVo...

[The Lynxpro]

Hey Anonymous Loser: I was targeting all the TiVo nay-sayers that have replied to this original story, not the original poster.

As a long-time ReplayTV user...

[jbarr]

...this is very disturbing and disappointing. I own a modified model 2001, a stock 2020, and a new 5040, and these have been indespensible.

Problem is that there is no way to set the clock or do manual recordings without Guide Data (unless you bought a Lifetime subscription on the 5000 series.) If the dial-up and Internet connections get shut down, these become bricks.

I guess I could always get TiVo units, but ReplayTV has always been my system of choice.

Re:As a long-time ReplayTV user...

[cookem]

this is not true...ppl have worked on setting up there own replay update server. http://www.prest.ca/RNS check that site out for some information and hit the avs forums. I am sure there will be alot of ppl working on setting these up if the guide service goes bye bye

Brainwashed

[Nuge]

I bet you also buy all thingS Sony, Intel, Nvidia, Palm, etc, etc. Just because something goes out of business doesn't mean it was the better product and vica versa. All it means is that their marketing employees were able to brainwash you better than the competitions'.

Good #($&*@(#*& Riddance

[Anonymous Coward]

This was the worst managed, poorest visioned, deepest ego-driven boondoggle of a company I ever associated with. It was sure to collapse from its own weight - if not for its poor investments and expansion acquisitions, then from the egos of the Dudes in Charge. I feel deeply for the good engineers that will lose out - but hopefully most of them have jumped off since the band started playing when they axed the Access division two years ago.

I post AC out of respect of the friends I left behind...

Not entirely accurate

[phrenzy]

There was always going to be an auction. D&M will be going into it with a different status than if they had closed a deal now, but the auction would still have happened.
Now anyone who wants any of the business units gets to bid on an even playing field, including D&M if they want. There's some very nice IP and infrastructure there for the taking.

A job for Steve Case?

[Simon Spero]

How about this scenario: Steve Case buys ReplayTV at auction, and simultaneously makes an offer for TiVo. The two development teams are merged.

The combined team very quickly demos a merged procuct, primarily based on tivo s2, but with a few key replayTV features in place- in particular commercial advance, and at least some of the local network features. The unit also adds a few AOL broadband features (e.g. basic AIM client).

Steve uses his influence to get this device adopted by AOL (the unit), with his personal shareholding as a partial shield from attacks from Time Warner; however the product remains separate, and the DirectTV relationship is preserved and deepened.

If the first stages of the plan go ok, and especially if the merged company is listed, the obvious next move is to put in a bid for Scientific Atlanta to get hold of the digital cable and HDTV technologies. The resulting company could own the set top box market.

Simon

[Disclaimer: I own a Replay series 4500 and a DirecTivo - however, at the moment I don't own a roof, so only the replay is in use. Both have complementary stengths and weaknesses. The Tivo is much better on the recording side, but playback's a bitch; the replay is much less pleasant to program, but is a lot nicer when it comes to watching what you managed to record ]

Re:A job for Steve Case?

[danielobvt]

Tivo entered into a strategic alliance with AOL about a year ago. I am starting to hear rumblings that this may start to bear fruit soon.

Re:A job for Steve Case?

[The Lynxpro]

AOL needs Replay's intellectual property to block Microsoft. AOL owns 13% of TiVo stock. Shareholders need to put pressure on (AOL) Time Warner to knock some sense into their Time Warner Cable division. That division needs to cut development of Mystro and put it towards digital TiVo-enabled set-top boxes. There are so many things AOL could do with TiVo that would benefit viewers its mind boggling to think that the .com collapse and accounting errors in AOL has given the blowhard Time Warner execs the excuse to block all of the synergy strategy AOL wanted to force upon the Time Warner content side of the biz... As for AOL and TiVo working together, I suggest you login and go to AOL Keywords "TiVo Beta"... :)

And that's not all

[whm]

The ReplayTV and Rio products are what SonicBlue is perhaps more recently known for - but don't forget some of the huge companies of yesteryear that SonicBlue also gobbled up. For starters,

Diamond Multimedia, who was once one of the larger producers of mainstream video cards,

and S3, the unforgettable yet forgettable video chipset.

Rio Car

[helraiz]

I own Rio Car, which I purchased few years back and it's great. If it only had Alpine sound quality, it would be even better. Too bad it has to end like this :(

I own a ReplayTV. OpenSource to the resuce

[sullrich]

How about a ReplayTV backend OpenSource application that emulates their servers. Even if this goes belly up, all of us that have already invested will still be able to use their units in the future. Any takers? I would be willing to help out for what it's worth. -GG

Echostar Dish Networks

[Anonymous Coward]

I signed up for DISH a few years ago to get BBC America.
It came with a PVR (before I really knew much of what that technology was) and it was love a first sight.
Even my wife (who is anti technology) loves it.

It even has the 30second skip that seemed to be one of the features that rankled the Ad industry.
Now to be honest even though I do skip most of the ad's (how many ad's for a Oric Vac can one person take) I do skip back and play the 'good ones'. Just make them relevant!!

The one I have (Dish Player 501) I think comes directly from DISH's own labs though I did see a clip on TechTV showing a Moxi player which looked very very much like the 501.

So...TIVO vs SonicBlue? take a closer look at DISH Player.

And that probes what?

[jotaeleemeese]

Really, I would be interested to know.

Fucking nerds.

History repeats itself...

[djan]

TiVo --> VHS
ReplayTV --> Beta

We now know who won the PVR war.

Re:History repeats itself...

[The Lynxpro]

Inaccurate. Sony makes their own TiVo units! Its amazing Sony's chairman didn't express interest in buying TiVo outright considering his interest in purchasing Palm and possibly even Apple...

Re:I own a ReplayTV. OpenSource to the resuce

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm quite sure this is waiting in the wings. There's already something out there for the older dialup units but it's not very easily setup.

Last Post!

[alpg]

None of our men are "experts." We have most unfortunately found it necessary
to get rid of a man as soon as he thinks himself an expert -- because no one
ever considers himself expert if he really knows his job. A man who knows a
job sees so much more to be done than he has done, that he is always pressing
forward and never gives up an instant of thought to how good and how efficient
he is. Thinking always ahead, thinking always of trying to do more, brings a
state of mind in which nothing is impossible. The moment one gets into the
"expert" state of mind a great number of things become impossible.
-- From Henry Ford Sr., "My Life and Work"

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...