No, there is little stuff which looks groundbreaking new GUI-wise. Yes, KDE looks like Windows if you want it to. No, I don't have PNG's for the old shots but they will be there for the new ones. Yes, I use Tahoma [Xft] which is evil.
Re:New to Linux world (please be gentle)
on
KDE 3.0 is Out
·
· Score: 4, Informative
KDE has its own window manager, while Gnome lets the user run whichever one he wants.
Correction: KDE lets the user run whichever netwm-compliant window manager he wants, but uses its own kwin window manager by default.
Re:Screenshots anyone?
on
KDE 3.0 is Out
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I'm committing the official KDE 3.0 screenshots to CVS (and thus www.kde.org) tonight. I had some nice ones ready for the longest time, but one of theme had a style theme that isn't in 3.0 release (stupid stupid) so I'm redoing that one first, after dinner. Expect them to be there around 9pm CEST.
Re:Give them a chance...
on
KDE 3.0 is Out
·
· Score: 5, Funny
The KDE project is famous for its funded and organised trolling of weblogs and message board associated with Linux and Free software/open source.
So there is money in open source!:-)
Re:How Incredibly Discourteous
on
KDE 3.0 is Out
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
The fact is, they are a professional website, they get paid for running it, and they should act like professionals.
If you don't like the lack of professionalism at Slashdot, don't go here. Don't trust it when it says "abc 1.2.3 released", ignore those stories and ignore those links. Ignore Slashdot alltogether and start/join a more professional site. Only take release announcements seriously from Freshmeat or something like that.
This should indeed be fixed on the developers side. A simple solution would be a private FTP server from where all servers including ftp.kde.org sync. Shouldn't be too hard to set up, so I'll propose that on the mailinglists tonight. As KDE developer I might not be pleased with Slashdotted servers, but the closer to the source this can be fixed, the better.
If Rob hadn't posted it, some other asshole would've placed a link on his site.;-)
Icon sizes are completely configurable in KDE. The second screenshot you mentioned has the panel and taskbar hidden.
In fact, you can easily put both your window list and application menu as left/middle/right mouse button on the desktop and run without a panel alltogether and on top of that use any window manager instead of kwin and just use those parts of the desktop you like.
If the next version of KDE was to be name KDE XP, it'd probably be a pretty smart marketing strategy, assuming there are no legality issues with using the letters X and P consecutively.
As KDE developer I can promise you there will be a 3.0.1 bugfix release first, then a 3.1 with new features, etcetera. Just because we do indeed implement good stuff as seen in other OSes (yes, including but definitely not limited to Windows) doesn't mean KDE is just a copycat.
Magnetic window borders, old classics such as virtual desktops and focus follows mouse.. KDE has it all. Configure it for ten minutes and you've got the exact Windows clone. Or, you've got something completely different. Umpteen window decorations, style, icon themes, colour schemes and a powerful control center give you choice in the look and feel of KDE. So make it look like whatever you want, there is not just one look and feel.
No, Dirk told him that there was no real freeze for new stuff in kdemultimedia because only libs and base were part of his release responsibility, apparently. So if anyone wanted to risk breaking stuff in kdemultimedia, that was fine by him.
So Neil took that as a sign that he could include his well-tested Hayes module (it encountered and caused fixing for lots of KDirLister and KFileTreeView bugs) into kdemultimedia. It was then removed again by Dirk, against his words earlier.
To add some perspective, Neil (and I) have both considered being release coordinator for upcoming releases. So we are definitely not just whining, we are prepared to do something about it. My only reason of doubt is whether I can find enough time to do a right job without compromising work and study efforts.
Neil contributes more than a bit. Half the Noatun modules are his, a new game of his will make 3.1, he works with me on a project to improve video support in arts. More importantly, he dares to express his opinion and is very serious about keeping KDE completely free and open in development).
Neil did not blow anything out of proportion. Uncensored opinions like these are the best, because you need some unpopular opinions to evaluate your goals and methods and so you can improve them along the way.
There have been some questionable events and changes in the past week within KDE development and the upcoming release. Since noone had yet the courage to express concerns about these changes, Neil stood up and did, with a firm voice.
The result is some strong but constructive discussions to improve the situation and do what is best for KDE. A second RC has been created and the results of testing it will decided if there will be a final 3.0.0 release next or a delay if necessary.
Yes, us KDE developers disagree sometimes. We're not always best friends. But we respect other opinions and keep our common friend in mind: KDE itself.
The current situation in Linux is pitiful. Hell, even searching is not standardized. Galeon by default uses CTRL-F while gedit uses F6!
That has little to do with GNOME/GTK inconsistancies, though. Probably one of these apps uses the GNOME key bindings and the other app uses is GTK only and had to come up with its own.
I see the same inconsistensies in Windows too, though. Most modern apps for both GNOME, GTK, KDE and Qt seem to integrate well, all using the same technologies mentioned in parent post.
Of course, there are areas which can be improved. Sign up for a GNOME or KDE usability test and let us developers know.
I couldn't resist checking, but the free download (demo?) installs and runs under Wine.. it definitely doesn't look perfect, but hey, it's better than not having a girlfriend at all.;-)
There is hardly any legacy code. Well, maybe support for.kdelnk files but that's about it. kconf_update automatically updates your config files when they are first loaded (if necessary).
You can still run old applications if you keep your old kdelibs intact, which is the charm of version numbering of libraries under UNIX.:)
I originally wanted to update them a bit before linking and announcing them. The link is no longer secret, it is now linked from the main screenshots page.
Damn, it's harder to keep a secret in KDE CVS / Dot / Slashdot than in a high school full of giggling Olsen twins.
Similarly, a program that understands text/html might not know how to make HTTP requests, FTP requests, Gopher request, and so forth.
Actually, for KDE applications that is not a problem because they (should) all use the KIO technology which makes network file access completely transparent, whether it is http, imap, sftp, smb, whatever. As long as there is a KIO slave, any KDE application should be able to perform any request transparently.
But I still agree that openBrowser() should be configurable in KControl, just like the preferred mail and console applications are.
Huh? Well, there is a list of planned features already. Mostly stuff that didn't make KDE 3.0 or wasn't done yet because 3.0 is the only opportunity to make binary incompatible changes for a long while again. So the development focus for 3.0 has very much been the underlying framework, while 3.1 will add some more features and eye-candy, probably.
Please note that some of the planned items still might not make it and that it is very likely that several items are not yet planned but will pop up in time for the 3.1 freeze which is several months away.
Oh, look here! ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/2.2.2/ provides binaries for SEVEN different operating systems and distros! These aren't links to those respective systems, but bonafide binaries on the actual genuine KDE site!
It is still true that we do not make the binaries. Distributors do. Those binaries are placed there for your convenience, but it is still the responsibility of the packager to create them.
I guess we could remove all those binaries from the site though, if that'd make you happy.;-)
Noone said that you shouldn't give users a choice. It was argued that the KDE-way to open an browser is openBrowser() and that applications shipped as part of KDE should use the KDE API.
If you feel that functionality is missing from openBrowser(), you should still use it and fix openBrowser(). By not using it you give out a sign of unwillingness to adopt to KDE standards. You'd rather ignore the standards than fix them.
If you want your application to ship as part of KDE you're no longer a third party developer, you'd be a KDE developer and you'll have to think of a picture bigger than just your application.
Even more important however: I do not think KDE should replace shipped applications (there is a functional AIM client already) every time an alternative comes along, even if the alternative is better. That'd be inconsistent.
Yes this is possible. Many open source projects including GNOME and KDE have a release plan which even foresees in a bug fixing period right before releases, the so called feature freeze.
It works for them, so in theory it could work well for Microsoft or any software producing entity in general.
Slashdot Mirror
In the meanwhile, check out KDE 3.0 Beta2 screenshots and screenshots of early 3.0 CVS.
No, there is little stuff which looks groundbreaking new GUI-wise.
Yes, KDE looks like Windows if you want it to.
No, I don't have PNG's for the old shots but they will be there for the new ones.
Yes, I use Tahoma [Xft] which is evil.
Correction: KDE lets the user run whichever netwm-compliant window manager he wants, but uses its own kwin window manager by default.
I'm committing the official KDE 3.0 screenshots to CVS (and thus www.kde.org) tonight. I had some nice ones ready for the longest time, but one of theme had a style theme that isn't in 3.0 release (stupid stupid) so I'm redoing that one first, after dinner. Expect them to be there around 9pm CEST.
So there is money in open source!
If you don't like the lack of professionalism at Slashdot, don't go here. Don't trust it when it says "abc 1.2.3 released", ignore those stories and ignore those links. Ignore Slashdot alltogether and start/join a more professional site. Only take release announcements seriously from Freshmeat or something like that.
This should indeed be fixed on the developers side. A simple solution would be a private FTP server from where all servers including ftp.kde.org sync. Shouldn't be too hard to set up, so I'll propose that on the mailinglists tonight. As KDE developer I might not be pleased with Slashdotted servers, but the closer to the source this can be fixed, the better.
If Rob hadn't posted it, some other asshole would've placed a link on his site.
Icon sizes are completely configurable in KDE. The second screenshot you mentioned has the panel and taskbar hidden.
In fact, you can easily put both your window list and application menu as left/middle/right mouse button on the desktop and run without a panel alltogether and on top of that use any window manager instead of kwin and just use those parts of the desktop you like.
If the next version of KDE was to be name KDE XP, it'd probably be a pretty smart marketing strategy, assuming there are no legality issues with using the letters X and P consecutively.
As KDE developer I can promise you there will be a 3.0.1 bugfix release first, then a 3.1 with new features, etcetera. Just because we do indeed implement good stuff as seen in other OSes (yes, including but definitely not limited to Windows) doesn't mean KDE is just a copycat.
Magnetic window borders, old classics such as virtual desktops and focus follows mouse.. KDE has it all. Configure it for ten minutes and you've got the exact Windows clone. Or, you've got something completely different. Umpteen window decorations, style, icon themes, colour schemes and a powerful control center give you choice in the look and feel of KDE. So make it look like whatever you want, there is not just one look and feel.
No, Dirk told him that there was no real freeze for new stuff in kdemultimedia because only libs and base were part of his release responsibility, apparently. So if anyone wanted to risk breaking stuff in kdemultimedia, that was fine by him.
So Neil took that as a sign that he could include his well-tested Hayes module (it encountered and caused fixing for lots of KDirLister and KFileTreeView bugs) into kdemultimedia. It was then removed again by Dirk, against his words earlier.
To add some perspective, Neil (and I) have both considered being release coordinator for upcoming releases. So we are definitely not just whining, we are prepared to do something about it. My only reason of doubt is whether I can find enough time to do a right job without compromising work and study efforts.
Neil contributes more than a bit. Half the Noatun modules are his, a new game of his will make 3.1, he works with me on a project to improve video support in arts. More importantly, he dares to express his opinion and is very serious about keeping KDE completely free and open in development).
And how has Neil sabotaged KDE CVS in any way?
Neil did not blow anything out of proportion. Uncensored opinions like these are the best, because you need some unpopular opinions to evaluate your goals and methods and so you can improve them along the way.
There have been some questionable events and changes in the past week within KDE development and the upcoming release. Since noone had yet the courage to express concerns about these changes, Neil stood up and did, with a firm voice.
The result is some strong but constructive discussions to improve the situation and do what is best for KDE. A second RC has been created and the results of testing it will decided if there will be a final 3.0.0 release next or a delay if necessary.
Yes, us KDE developers disagree sometimes. We're not always best friends. But we respect other opinions and keep our common friend in mind: KDE itself.
That has little to do with GNOME/GTK inconsistancies, though. Probably one of these apps uses the GNOME key bindings and the other app uses is GTK only and had to come up with its own.
I see the same inconsistensies in Windows too, though. Most modern apps for both GNOME, GTK, KDE and Qt seem to integrate well, all using the same technologies mentioned in parent post.
Of course, there are areas which can be improved. Sign up for a GNOME or KDE usability test and let us developers know.
Could I relicense it to BT for half the price? ;-)
Congrats Rob!
I couldn't resist checking, but the free download (demo?) installs and runs under Wine.. it definitely doesn't look perfect, but hey, it's better than not having a girlfriend at all. ;-)
You can still run old applications if you keep your old kdelibs intact, which is the charm of version numbering of libraries under UNIX.
Damn, it's harder to keep a secret in KDE CVS / Dot / Slashdot than in a high school full of giggling Olsen twins.
Actually, for KDE applications that is not a problem because they (should) all use the KIO technology which makes network file access completely transparent, whether it is http, imap, sftp, smb, whatever. As long as there is a KIO slave, any KDE application should be able to perform any request transparently.
But I still agree that openBrowser() should be configurable in KControl, just like the preferred mail and console applications are.
Please note that some of the planned items still might not make it and that it is very likely that several items are not yet planned but will pop up in time for the 3.1 freeze which is several months away.
It is still true that we do not make the binaries. Distributors do. Those binaries are placed there for your convenience, but it is still the responsibility of the packager to create them.
I guess we could remove all those binaries from the site though, if that'd make you happy.
If you feel that functionality is missing from openBrowser(), you should still use it and fix openBrowser(). By not using it you give out a sign of unwillingness to adopt to KDE standards. You'd rather ignore the standards than fix them.
If you want your application to ship as part of KDE you're no longer a third party developer, you'd be a KDE developer and you'll have to think of a picture bigger than just your application.
Even more important however: I do not think KDE should replace shipped applications (there is a functional AIM client already) every time an alternative comes along, even if the alternative is better. That'd be inconsistent.
That's what slot-in drives are for.
No, they get that from people with very grim views. :)
I did not find a lot of useful responses on the tlhIngan-Hol mailinglist of the Klingon Language Institute, but perhaps this is the right place (and time) to ask.
Please decipher my e-mail address and contact me if you're interested.
It works for them, so in theory it could work well for Microsoft or any software producing entity in general.