I am just curious on grounds you base your assertion.
I'm just thinking how it plays out in court.
This, IMO, is what the judge and jury have to go on:
Code was in SysV first. Now its in Linux. Noone in the linux community can prove where or who it came from, it just sort of miraculously appeared and noone took credit for it.
Remember, this is civil court, the burden is "a preponderance of the evidence".
Eg; My bike shows up in your garage. I say you stole it, you say you found it.
Whether the code exists in both places is not. It does. And it existed in SysV first.
How it got into linux is the real issue. If there was a real record of who submitted what and when, it would be an open and shut case. Oh, IBMs linux guy submitted it - ok. Or, perhaps, hey Caldera submitted it. Browsing through changelogs didnt answer this for me.
My point is, as much of a bunch of assholes SCO are being, it's not just completely fabricated bullshit out of thin air, though they are making a mountain out of a molehill. The code I saw, even if it was straight up stolen, was not 3 billion dollars from IBM and 700 bucks per CPU caliber stuff.
IBM as a unix licensee is in posession of SysV source code.
Not any more, SCO pulled their ticket.
IBM could do a source code compare between the SysV code and Linux and point out any illicitly copied code, or if none found, declare that fact.
There is code. This fact is not in dispute. The question is how the code got there, and who rightfully owns it.
Linux didnt go from the limited 2.2 4-way SMP to scaling to 512+ procs by magic or some independent brainstorm. Serious big iron code has appeared. This case is about the hows and whys of that codes appearance.
IBMs decision to not respond directly to the allegations, but instead to follow it's old tried and true business practice of litigating its enemies out of existence makes me wonder.
As a part of an audit and rethink of our companies UNIX integration strategies.
SCO will win this. They wont win big, they wont win billions, they wont own linux, but they will win.
NUMA and SMP will probably be yanked, the kernel will revert back to it's 2.2 days and probably stay there for a long, long time, until someone comes up with something completely original to replace whats missing.
I know you all dont want to hear it, and you can scream and bleat and pound your chests all you want, being loud doesnt make you right. You can complain that the people seeing the code are just journalists and not programmers (many if not most are, I am, but obviously programmers dont write magazine articles - duh). Besides - realize they have to convince a judge and jury, and aren't going to let it be made up of slashdot readers.
Fact is, SCO has a provable case, though I cant say they're entitled to 3 billion in damages, but linux is going to be shook to its core and kicked back four or five years in its development.
Linus and the team will learn an important lesson about tracking the pedigree of all code submissions.
So mod me down as troll or flamebait. Bury that which you dont agree with. But all you implementers, keep a fallback strategy in mind, be it BSD or Solaris or whatever.
This seems like a great way to put the USPS out of business.
They aren't a business, they're a government service. If they were a business they'd have been bankrupt decades ago.
This is just cancelling stamps with a genned up barcode. Just embedding some more info into the postmarks. They can already trace it back to the post office.
Theres no standing in line or showing ID or any of that shit. That's slashbot FUD.
If you dont have all the ps filters and foomatics or whatever the hell hoops you have to jump through for your particular printer, it's useless. It comes out of the box with support for, what, two or three obsolete HP deskjets?
And managing jobs with the webmin doesn't work for shit - at least it doesn't for me.
Theres some bugs in later net drivers. I had a router/firewall made out of salvaged parts, including a couple old SMC 10mbit cards. Worked fine in 2.2 with ipchains. The cards wouldnt work at all in 2.4 (I wanted iptables). It kept trying to force them to be 100mbit cards.
Though I have dozens of those linksys cards and cant say I've had a problem using them yet. Tulip.o is about the most reliable driver linux has. Not that that says much.
Or your "friend" will look down at you, call you an idiot and tell you to RTFM.
Most linux users get ignorant and arrogant when you ask a question. The reason is obvious to me - THEY DONT KNOW EITHER. There are no straight answers. Everything is so complex you have to reinvent the wheel each and everytime you do something.
The FAQ is basically a long winded lecture warning you to RTFM (which doesnt exist!) before you dare ask the mighty CUPS gods a question.
I have a DeskJet 648C that I wanted to stick on my samba server for day-to-day printing (I wouldnt attach my GOOD printer to anything but a Windows box - just a waste of tech otherwise).
The idea that you can use any printer as a PS printer, and have it share adobe's PS drivers, sounds like such a simple and elegant solution. Printer dies? Plug a new one it, all my networked boxes still use the same drivers.
The DeskJet is "100% supported" but I still cant get it to print with proper margins. A half inch of everything is cut off. I have absolutely no idea which "level" (PS filters, CUPS, lpd) to start looking for the problem at.
And thats just the main problem. It still has ridiculous sharing issues (my wifes account cannot print - it would seem that noone but members of @wheel can print over the network)
I've spent probably a hundred or so hours trying to figure it all out. It's insane.
You'd think printing would be one of the lowest level no-brainer things to set up. It's not like its cutting-edge tech.
Is that Linus blatantly stole our IP and is, in essence, trying to distribute a warezed version of our UnixWare.
By the time this book is in print, you're biggest annoyance will be the thick black cock in your asses, as we'll see your entire IP theft ring behind bars.
I hope they realize that it will easily take their entire lives, and probably the lives of the next few generations of decendants, to even scratch the surface.
Here's a sample chapter list.
Chapter 1 - RMS
Chapter 2 - ESR
Chapter 3 - Lindows
Chapter 4 - Justifying all the blatant IP theft
Chapter 5 - Why doesnt my computer do anything useful?
Would you use a homemade security system made out of string and tin cans to secure your home?
No?
Then why in the hell would anyone use a homemade, third rate, half-stolen copy of lunix to secure their data?
It's ridiculous, there ought to be a law. Once the warez rings that distribute it are brought under control, though, I'm sure the rightful owners of the code can tighten it up and sell it with some real security.
This was said a million times in the first article
on
Novell Not Dumping Netware
·
· Score: -1, Flamebait
Why not just admit this is a retraction, not new news?
You screwed up (again) and believed another idiot internet rumour.
Seriously, keep in mind you're trying to charge money for this shit.
People buy characters and stuff now, because they're cheaters and in their mind thats how they win. But if the whole game revolves around selling stuff to make money, the buyers are the losers.
The real flaw is there'd be no money going into the system. There'd be only sellers, no buyers.
For the thing to work, some people would have to do all the playing, collecting items, etc, and sell them to others. Some people would have to want to just spend money online on imaginary things that dont exist.
Who, besides maybe one or two lunatics, is going to sit around buying imaginary things all day?
There'd be absolutely no incentive to put money into this system, just be thousands of greedy geeks thinking they're going to get rich.
Kind of reminds me of the "ad revenue from my Backstreet Boys fan website will make me fabulously wealthy!" mentality of the early web.
Sony forbids it because it ruins the game experience for everyone else, when some rich idiot just goes and buys up all the best characters and spells or whatever.
You could argue that Sony does profit indirectly, they profit from anything that keeps people playing.
But then they lose subscribers who just dont want to keep paying to play an unfair game where dopes with extra pocket cash ruin the fun.
Buying a level 6 million character is as much a cheat as entering a gameshark code.
Dont equate added responsibility with a loss of freedom. You're free to choose the job, you're free to quit. You're responsible to perform the duties you agreed to while you work there.
Dont want the cops to know where you are? Dont call 911.
Dont want anyone to know you went to City X? Then dont take your cell phone to City X, or dont use it when you're in City X.
Noones tracking you, they're tracking the phone. If its the bosses phone, he has every right to know where it is. If he doesnt want you taking his phone to City X, then thats up to him. If you dont like your boss and his rules, quit and find another job.
People hear the suggestions of responsibility, and immediately start whining about lost "freedoms".
(Btw, Why in the hell would you call 911 for assistance and NOT want emergency services to know where you are? What kind of dopey logic is that? "Please help me I'm shot I think I'm dying... Where am I? None of your business you ORWELL BIG BROTHER!"... Anyways, dont worry, I work in that very industry, phase III is decades away from working, no matter what you read in press releases.)
Land lines have always been tracable, and so have cell phones to a degree (though triangulation requires a little elbow grease in most places)
Why is this such a big deal? I only carry my companies cell phone if I'm on call. I get payed a cool hundred bucks just to answer it after hours, five hundred if theres a problem that I solve after hours.
It's kind of funny what types of things push the "panicky idiot" buttons on slashdot. If you dont want one, dont get one. If your boss is a cruel tyrant who hounds you to the ends of the earth, get another job.
Theres nothing anonymous about cell technology, there never was, and never will be.
It's idiotic to think so. You can trace a land line, whats special about a cell phone?
Frankly I dont give a rats ass if you die on the side of the road after calling 911. I'm more worried about the people in the other car, who aren't nearly as paranoid and delusional as you are.
Slashdot Mirror
I am just curious on grounds you base your assertion.
I'm just thinking how it plays out in court.
This, IMO, is what the judge and jury have to go on:
Code was in SysV first. Now its in Linux. Noone in the linux community can prove where or who it came from, it just sort of miraculously appeared and noone took credit for it.
Remember, this is civil court, the burden is "a preponderance of the evidence".
Eg; My bike shows up in your garage. I say you stole it, you say you found it.
These are the issues.
Whether the code exists in both places is not. It does. And it existed in SysV first.
How it got into linux is the real issue. If there was a real record of who submitted what and when, it would be an open and shut case. Oh, IBMs linux guy submitted it - ok. Or, perhaps, hey Caldera submitted it. Browsing through changelogs didnt answer this for me.
My point is, as much of a bunch of assholes SCO are being, it's not just completely fabricated bullshit out of thin air, though they are making a mountain out of a molehill. The code I saw, even if it was straight up stolen, was not 3 billion dollars from IBM and 700 bucks per CPU caliber stuff.
IBM as a unix licensee is in posession of SysV source code.
Not any more, SCO pulled their ticket.
IBM could do a source code compare between the SysV code and Linux and point out any illicitly copied code, or if none found, declare that fact.
There is code. This fact is not in dispute. The question is how the code got there, and who rightfully owns it.
Linux didnt go from the limited 2.2 4-way SMP to scaling to 512+ procs by magic or some independent brainstorm. Serious big iron code has appeared. This case is about the hows and whys of that codes appearance.
IBMs decision to not respond directly to the allegations, but instead to follow it's old tried and true business practice of litigating its enemies out of existence makes me wonder.
As a part of an audit and rethink of our companies UNIX integration strategies.
SCO will win this. They wont win big, they wont win billions, they wont own linux, but they will win.
NUMA and SMP will probably be yanked, the kernel will revert back to it's 2.2 days and probably stay there for a long, long time, until someone comes up with something completely original to replace whats missing.
I know you all dont want to hear it, and you can scream and bleat and pound your chests all you want, being loud doesnt make you right. You can complain that the people seeing the code are just journalists and not programmers (many if not most are, I am, but obviously programmers dont write magazine articles - duh). Besides - realize they have to convince a judge and jury, and aren't going to let it be made up of slashdot readers.
Fact is, SCO has a provable case, though I cant say they're entitled to 3 billion in damages, but linux is going to be shook to its core and kicked back four or five years in its development.
Linus and the team will learn an important lesson about tracking the pedigree of all code submissions.
So mod me down as troll or flamebait. Bury that which you dont agree with. But all you implementers, keep a fallback strategy in mind, be it BSD or Solaris or whatever.
This seems like a great way to put the USPS out of business.
They aren't a business, they're a government service. If they were a business they'd have been bankrupt decades ago.
This is just cancelling stamps with a genned up barcode. Just embedding some more info into the postmarks. They can already trace it back to the post office.
Theres no standing in line or showing ID or any of that shit. That's slashbot FUD.
You cant configure much from the webmin.
If you dont have all the ps filters and foomatics or whatever the hell hoops you have to jump through for your particular printer, it's useless. It comes out of the box with support for, what, two or three obsolete HP deskjets?
And managing jobs with the webmin doesn't work for shit - at least it doesn't for me.
Theres some bugs in later net drivers. I had a router/firewall made out of salvaged parts, including a couple old SMC 10mbit cards. Worked fine in 2.2 with ipchains. The cards wouldnt work at all in 2.4 (I wanted iptables). It kept trying to force them to be 100mbit cards.
Though I have dozens of those linksys cards and cant say I've had a problem using them yet. Tulip.o is about the most reliable driver linux has. Not that that says much.
Or your "friend" will look down at you, call you an idiot and tell you to RTFM.
Most linux users get ignorant and arrogant when you ask a question. The reason is obvious to me - THEY DONT KNOW EITHER. There are no straight answers. Everything is so complex you have to reinvent the wheel each and everytime you do something.
Ok, the REAL annoyance with CUPS is the FAQ.
The FAQ is basically a long winded lecture warning you to RTFM (which doesnt exist!) before you dare ask the mighty CUPS gods a question.
I have a DeskJet 648C that I wanted to stick on my samba server for day-to-day printing (I wouldnt attach my GOOD printer to anything but a Windows box - just a waste of tech otherwise).
The idea that you can use any printer as a PS printer, and have it share adobe's PS drivers, sounds like such a simple and elegant solution. Printer dies? Plug a new one it, all my networked boxes still use the same drivers.
The DeskJet is "100% supported" but I still cant get it to print with proper margins. A half inch of everything is cut off. I have absolutely no idea which "level" (PS filters, CUPS, lpd) to start looking for the problem at.
And thats just the main problem. It still has ridiculous sharing issues (my wifes account cannot print - it would seem that noone but members of @wheel can print over the network)
I've spent probably a hundred or so hours trying to figure it all out. It's insane.
You'd think printing would be one of the lowest level no-brainer things to set up. It's not like its cutting-edge tech.
Is that Linus blatantly stole our IP and is, in essence, trying to distribute a warezed version of our UnixWare.
By the time this book is in print, you're biggest annoyance will be the thick black cock in your asses, as we'll see your entire IP theft ring behind bars.
Love and kisses,
SCO
Compiling a list of linux annoyances?
I hope they realize that it will easily take their entire lives, and probably the lives of the next few generations of decendants, to even scratch the surface.
Here's a sample chapter list.
Chapter 1 - RMS
Chapter 2 - ESR
Chapter 3 - Lindows
Chapter 4 - Justifying all the blatant IP theft
Chapter 5 - Why doesnt my computer do anything useful?
Chapter 6 - Why dont I have a job?
Chapter 7 - Why dont I have a girlfriend?
My job is so that I have access to all info on a credit card (Name of the person, date of expiration and full number),
Just like any sales clerk or gas station attendee.
Wowee zowee what a high level position of trust. And yes, I do want fries with that.
Hey slashbots, watch your balances and report any false charges immediately. Big fucking deal.
Would you use a homemade security system made out of string and tin cans to secure your home?
No?
Then why in the hell would anyone use a homemade, third rate, half-stolen copy of lunix to secure their data?
It's ridiculous, there ought to be a law. Once the warez rings that distribute it are brought under control, though, I'm sure the rightful owners of the code can tighten it up and sell it with some real security.
Why not just admit this is a retraction, not new news?
You screwed up (again) and believed another idiot internet rumour.
Seriously, keep in mind you're trying to charge money for this shit.
People buy characters and stuff now, because they're cheaters and in their mind thats how they win. But if the whole game revolves around selling stuff to make money, the buyers are the losers.
The real flaw is there'd be no money going into the system. There'd be only sellers, no buyers.
For the thing to work, some people would have to do all the playing, collecting items, etc, and sell them to others. Some people would have to want to just spend money online on imaginary things that dont exist.
Who, besides maybe one or two lunatics, is going to sit around buying imaginary things all day?
There'd be absolutely no incentive to put money into this system, just be thousands of greedy geeks thinking they're going to get rich.
Kind of reminds me of the "ad revenue from my Backstreet Boys fan website will make me fabulously wealthy!" mentality of the early web.
Sony forbids it because it ruins the game experience for everyone else, when some rich idiot just goes and buys up all the best characters and spells or whatever.
You could argue that Sony does profit indirectly, they profit from anything that keeps people playing.
But then they lose subscribers who just dont want to keep paying to play an unfair game where dopes with extra pocket cash ruin the fun.
Buying a level 6 million character is as much a cheat as entering a gameshark code.
It's just not fun.
Get
Another
Job
Dont equate added responsibility with a loss of freedom. You're free to choose the job, you're free to quit. You're responsible to perform the duties you agreed to while you work there.
Sure, when you dont have a leg to stand on, accuse someone of being a troll.
The government has nothing to do with this. Its a product that you can choose to buy or not. It has a feature that you can choose to use or not.
Well dont confuse "lifes a bitch" with "my consitutional freedoms are being eroded!"
Look at the state of employer/employee relations in the founding fathers times if you need a quick reality check.
There is no right to privacy from parents for minors.
The kid, however, doesnt need to take the phone.
Dont want the cops to know where you are? Dont call 911.
Dont want anyone to know you went to City X? Then dont take your cell phone to City X, or dont use it when you're in City X.
Noones tracking you, they're tracking the phone. If its the bosses phone, he has every right to know where it is. If he doesnt want you taking his phone to City X, then thats up to him. If you dont like your boss and his rules, quit and find another job.
People hear the suggestions of responsibility, and immediately start whining about lost "freedoms".
(Btw, Why in the hell would you call 911 for assistance and NOT want emergency services to know where you are? What kind of dopey logic is that? "Please help me I'm shot I think I'm dying... Where am I? None of your business you ORWELL BIG BROTHER!"... Anyways, dont worry, I work in that very industry, phase III is decades away from working, no matter what you read in press releases.)
Dont work for a jerk.
Dont get a locatable cell phone.
Land lines have always been tracable, and so have cell phones to a degree (though triangulation requires a little elbow grease in most places)
Why is this such a big deal? I only carry my companies cell phone if I'm on call. I get payed a cool hundred bucks just to answer it after hours, five hundred if theres a problem that I solve after hours.
It's kind of funny what types of things push the "panicky idiot" buttons on slashdot. If you dont want one, dont get one. If your boss is a cruel tyrant who hounds you to the ends of the earth, get another job.
It's not orwellian, it's not even close.
You've never read the mans work, obviously.
But, aside from that;
Prithee, tell me why a cell phone should be untracable? Why should it be any different from a land line?
Dont use one, or use one without GPS
Then dont use a cell phone.
Theres nothing anonymous about cell technology, there never was, and never will be.
It's idiotic to think so. You can trace a land line, whats special about a cell phone?
Frankly I dont give a rats ass if you die on the side of the road after calling 911. I'm more worried about the people in the other car, who aren't nearly as paranoid and delusional as you are.
The problem with Waterloo is all the nazi war criminals hiding there. And its a hotbed for the skinhead/neo-nazi movement.
Though it makes for a cool Oktoberfest.
And lots of ducks at the university. And a team mascot modelled after a condom logo.