rather than convincing me its not a big deal, you've convinced me that it may well be a big deal, but its just a small piece of an even bigger big deal.
Sure, I could just not buy it, but that dodges the issue at hand. I think you're ignoring the part where they advertise this price. It's the price in bold, on all the flyers, in the bigger font. Somewhere below you'll spot the compulsory "with mail-in rebate" slogan, of course.
It doesn't make it any less of a scam. Why not just give the customer the lower price at point of sale? Oh right, in order to try to relieve them of some extra cash.
Hmm... being open and honest that the price offered is "after mail in rebate" doesn't make it any less of a scam?
So let us review:
The rebate is optional... you aren't ever required to fill out a form.
The information they obtain is compensated for, by actual cash sent in the form of a check.
The company offering the rebate, and every other company involved down to the end user is open about the fact that a rebate is involved.
and so...
It doesn't make it any less of a scam
and yet...
Main Entry: scam : a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
Now, clearly the rebate company intends for you to part with something valuable, your personal information. They clearly offered compensation, which to me makes it seem like a free exchange of information for money.
I find that you almost can't avoid the rebate scam when you buy from a brick-and-mortar store like BestBuy or CompUSA.
No? That's odd, because I've never seen an item in either of those stores that they refused to sell you if you weren't willing to fill out the rebate form.
since no letter was ever actually *lost* in the mail
I hope you're being sarcastic. The post office doesn't lose nearly the quantity of mail they are accused of, but it certainly can and does get lost sometimes.
The letter doesn't vanish, of course, but its not uncommon for a letter that is of an inconsistant thickness (say, because they've got a cardboard UPC symbol in them) to get jammed in a machine and damaged to the point of undeliverability.
Were both rebates "2 month" rebates? Some of them are 12 week, or even 16. ATI and Samsung aren't the same company, you know... and there's not just one magical rebate God that sends you all your rebate checks.
If you aren't happy about being a "rebate slave", then stop buying things with rebates on them. Its not like they're putting a gun to your head and saying "Take this money or else".
They're buying your personal information so they can either use it to fill your mailbox with their junk or everyone's junk.
So? I mean, so long as we're clear that's what they're doing and are ok with it, what's the problem?
There's no other reason for them not to do rebates at the POS/cash register.
Actually, another legitimate use of rebates is as a method of a company to borrow very short term money. Again, the rebate form says right on it how long its going to take, so what's the problem?
Completely worthless, except now some additinoal "rebate processor" company also has my information.
Not completely worthless, as it said before, they were going to pay you $10 for the information, and you took them up on the offer.
OS/2 was judged to be technically superior to Windows, as we are hear today about Linux. In fact, IBM is behind both of them!
Anyone remember OS/2?
Hmmm... semi-major platform from a major manufacturer... no, I'm sure NO ONE remembers OS/2.:)
The problem with the comparison is the assumption that there is some magical sliding scale called "Technical Superiority" that can be readily computed. Maybe Windows gets a 5, OS/2 a 6, and Linux a 6.1?
OS/2's downfall was precisely the lack of Windows compatibility. OS/2 3.0 has excellent Win 3.1 compatibility, and was the preferred platform for a lot of Power Users at the time.
To further complicate matters, IBM promised Win32 compatiblity in the Merlin release (4.0), but when they ran into some little problems, they just tossed a sloppy Win32s emulator on it and shoved it out the door. Anyone remember Win32s?
IBM lost its desktop share in OS/2 because not only did they not provide Win32 compatibility, but because they proved with an excellent Win16 emulator that it was possible, and then made an empty promise.
I'll leave the "IBM is behind both of them!" part for some other interested party to cover:)
The kind of person who would make a statement like this is the kind of person who has never faced death at the hands of another. I and many others have.
And the kind of person who would reply like that is the kind who has never faced slavery at the hands of another. Or at least never bothered to notice.
Personal security is a very important thing, but likewise it is a very personal thing. When someone else claims the power to provide all your security and all they ask is that you also let them decide what freedoms you should get, that someone has you right where they want you.
The best part is, they can't provide protection against the ones who are the greatest threat to you, because that's themselves.
To me the big red light is when they say "give it to everybody" and then start talking about how much they plan to charge you.
$40 a month for broadband is a nice deal, obviously, but in the name of making sure "everybody" has equal access, will they be requiring people to pay the $40 monthly fee even if they don't plan to make use of the available service?
More than "going to" they did it. Word Perfect 8.0 for Java was available, but it didn't do all that well.
Corel probably jumped the gun a little. The thing ran horribly at the time, because bytecode execution was so slow... and the vm's weren't tremendously mature on most platforms, so it wasn't altogether stable. I have a friend who is still using is, and with modern JIT compilers and higher speed computers it really runs like a dream.
Want my opinion? Java version of Word Perfect runs better on Linux than that Wine-enhanced native Linux version they released ever did.
Linux is a great os, but lets get real about what it is and isn't that great at yet.
That's great and all, but I fail to see how you can blame Linux for this problem. You can certainly use another GUI instead of Xfree86 on a Linux box.
Really, I have to disagree about the X performance issues altogether. X is, by design, more than just a desktop GUI. Its designed to be a lot more configurable than the NT4 GUI, and that flexibility comes at a performance hit.
If you ask config to do too much defaulting and dumbing down in the name of helping ease the configuration, you're going to take some performance hits.
I justify almost in the sense that at least citizens who aren't members of obscure religions, ethnicities, or political organizations theoretically have some rights.
If Patriot Act II passes, I will cheerfully remove the almost.
1. Redefines terrorism too broadly: the new definition includes previously protected free speech. If any person feels threatened (rightfully or not) by a lawful protest, then under the patroit act that protest is considered a terrorist act.
2. New surveillance powers circumvent judicial review: Previously federal agencies had to get permission from the courts for wiretapping and other forms of covert surveillance. Under the Patriot Act the agency can arbitrarily label someone a 'suspected terrorist' and conduct surveillance without the court's permission. Moreover, that label doesn't have to be approved by any external agency... and the person gets no chance to defend himself.
3. Abbrogates right to a speedy trial. Previously Constitutional protections guarenteed that a person could be held for only a very limited time without a trial... and they must be charged with a crime. Again, its a question of judicial oversight. Under the Patriot Act the executive branch can, at their own discretion, detain a person for an indefinate period of time. The only legal requirement is that the President considers them a national security risk, but again, he can keep detainees a secret, and there is no judicial review of the process. In fact, he doesn't even have to accuse them of any crimes or place them legally under arrest, just "disappear" them.
Whether or not it successfully stops criminal acts, something which we can debate more or less ad infinitum since the government no longer has to report its actions publically, the primary effect of the Patriot Act is the greatly increase the powers of the Executive branch, and effectively neuter the Judicial branch.
Its been publically admitted by many of the acts proponents that it drastically reduces the Judicial branches powers, greatly restricts personal freedoms, and grants the executive branch almost police state powers, but that was always prefaced with the promise that it was a temporary measure for a particularly volatile period. Now, the 'temporary' measure appears to be a permanent fixture, which is probably only fair since the "war on terrorism" itself will likely last longer than any of us will live.
In many American states the police have discretion to arrest someone for carrying a toothpick or seize that toothpick if they feel it is being carried with intent to use it as a weapon and in a concealed manner. Again, its not even about what you really intend to do, just what the cop figures you intend to do.
In other words, if you keep a toothpick in your pocket you'd damned well better have some corn nearby.
The slippery slope argument isn't legitimate in and of itself, but when you've got a system of government that will use any precident to take away any remotely similar rights, there's something to be said for it.
FWIW its already illegal to report about something the government considers harmful under the Patriot act, because if it intimidates someone to hear it then the reporting itself is a terrorist action.
Pretty sure the point would be lost on her, since to these people the government is 100% benevolent and would never think to abuse its power.
If anything that might underscore to her the need for the government to have all this information, so they could track you down for daring to make a political statement.
So it sounds like the old troll that the GPL is viral or somehow "less free" because it doesn't allow you to remove freedoms. As I don't care about the success of proprietary software in general or about the success of proprietary software on free platforms in particular, such trollish arguments carry zero weight with me.
Since I don't care about a certain thing, anyone who does is clearly just a troll.
Anyhow, I think Trolltech's licensing problems go a little deeper than just proprietary apps, namely, they bill it as a crossplatform environment but they only offer a GPLed version on certain platforms.
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rather than convincing me its not a big deal, you've convinced me that it may well be a big deal, but its just a small piece of an even bigger big deal.
I hope you didn't say that near any Cisco equipment, or the FBI will be knocking on your door any minute.
yeah, and Coca Cola doesn't want your money either, they just want to see you enjoying a delicious beverage.
It doesn't make it any less of a scam. Why not just give the customer the lower price at point of sale? Oh right, in order to try to relieve them of some extra cash.
Hmm... being open and honest that the price offered is "after mail in rebate" doesn't make it any less of a scam?
So let us review:
and so...
It doesn't make it any less of a scam
and yet...
Main Entry: scam
: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
Now, clearly the rebate company intends for you to part with something valuable, your personal information. They clearly offered compensation, which to me makes it seem like a free exchange of information for money.
No? That's odd, because I've never seen an item in either of those stores that they refused to sell you if you weren't willing to fill out the rebate form.
I hope you're being sarcastic. The post office doesn't lose nearly the quantity of mail they are accused of, but it certainly can and does get lost sometimes.
The letter doesn't vanish, of course, but its not uncommon for a letter that is of an inconsistant thickness (say, because they've got a cardboard UPC symbol in them) to get jammed in a machine and damaged to the point of undeliverability.
Were both rebates "2 month" rebates? Some of them are 12 week, or even 16. ATI and Samsung aren't the same company, you know... and there's not just one magical rebate God that sends you all your rebate checks.
If you aren't happy about being a "rebate slave", then stop buying things with rebates on them. Its not like they're putting a gun to your head and saying "Take this money or else".
So? I mean, so long as we're clear that's what they're doing and are ok with it, what's the problem?
There's no other reason for them not to do rebates at the POS/cash register.
Actually, another legitimate use of rebates is as a method of a company to borrow very short term money. Again, the rebate form says right on it how long its going to take, so what's the problem?
Completely worthless, except now some additinoal "rebate processor" company also has my information.
Not completely worthless, as it said before, they were going to pay you $10 for the information, and you took them up on the offer.
My laptop runs OS/2 3.0 over Win 3.11 over DOS 6.22. I never found a Win 3.1 app that didn't run properly.
I had a friend with OS/2 3.0 only on his system and he swore everything still ran pretty good.
Anyone remember OS/2?
Hmmm... semi-major platform from a major manufacturer... no, I'm sure NO ONE remembers OS/2. :)
The problem with the comparison is the assumption that there is some magical sliding scale called "Technical Superiority" that can be readily computed. Maybe Windows gets a 5, OS/2 a 6, and Linux a 6.1?
OS/2's downfall was precisely the lack of Windows compatibility. OS/2 3.0 has excellent Win 3.1 compatibility, and was the preferred platform for a lot of Power Users at the time.
To further complicate matters, IBM promised Win32 compatiblity in the Merlin release (4.0), but when they ran into some little problems, they just tossed a sloppy Win32s emulator on it and shoved it out the door. Anyone remember Win32s?
IBM lost its desktop share in OS/2 because not only did they not provide Win32 compatibility, but because they proved with an excellent Win16 emulator that it was possible, and then made an empty promise.
I'll leave the "IBM is behind both of them!" part for some other interested party to cover :)
And the kind of person who would reply like that is the kind who has never faced slavery at the hands of another. Or at least never bothered to notice.
Personal security is a very important thing, but likewise it is a very personal thing. When someone else claims the power to provide all your security and all they ask is that you also let them decide what freedoms you should get, that someone has you right where they want you.
The best part is, they can't provide protection against the ones who are the greatest threat to you, because that's themselves.
1. Fear of technology that most of the congress doesn't understand
2. Greater fear of those who know about that technology and therefore must be dangerous.
3. Blind desire to control the actions of everybody else.
To me the big red light is when they say "give it to everybody" and then start talking about how much they plan to charge you.
$40 a month for broadband is a nice deal, obviously, but in the name of making sure "everybody" has equal access, will they be requiring people to pay the $40 monthly fee even if they don't plan to make use of the available service?
More than "going to" they did it. Word Perfect 8.0 for Java was available, but it didn't do all that well.
Corel probably jumped the gun a little. The thing ran horribly at the time, because bytecode execution was so slow... and the vm's weren't tremendously mature on most platforms, so it wasn't altogether stable. I have a friend who is still using is, and with modern JIT compilers and higher speed computers it really runs like a dream.
Want my opinion? Java version of Word Perfect runs better on Linux than that Wine-enhanced native Linux version they released ever did.
That's great and all, but I fail to see how you can blame Linux for this problem. You can certainly use another GUI instead of Xfree86 on a Linux box.
Really, I have to disagree about the X performance issues altogether. X is, by design, more than just a desktop GUI. Its designed to be a lot more configurable than the NT4 GUI, and that flexibility comes at a performance hit.
If you ask config to do too much defaulting and dumbing down in the name of helping ease the configuration, you're going to take some performance hits.
I justify almost in the sense that at least citizens who aren't members of obscure religions, ethnicities, or political organizations theoretically have some rights.
If Patriot Act II passes, I will cheerfully remove the almost.
A fair question, so here it goes.
1. Redefines terrorism too broadly: the new definition includes previously protected free speech. If any person feels threatened (rightfully or not) by a lawful protest, then under the patroit act that protest is considered a terrorist act.
2. New surveillance powers circumvent judicial review: Previously federal agencies had to get permission from the courts for wiretapping and other forms of covert surveillance. Under the Patriot Act the agency can arbitrarily label someone a 'suspected terrorist' and conduct surveillance without the court's permission. Moreover, that label doesn't have to be approved by any external agency... and the person gets no chance to defend himself.
3. Abbrogates right to a speedy trial. Previously Constitutional protections guarenteed that a person could be held for only a very limited time without a trial... and they must be charged with a crime. Again, its a question of judicial oversight. Under the Patriot Act the executive branch can, at their own discretion, detain a person for an indefinate period of time. The only legal requirement is that the President considers them a national security risk, but again, he can keep detainees a secret, and there is no judicial review of the process. In fact, he doesn't even have to accuse them of any crimes or place them legally under arrest, just "disappear" them.
Whether or not it successfully stops criminal acts, something which we can debate more or less ad infinitum since the government no longer has to report its actions publically, the primary effect of the Patriot Act is the greatly increase the powers of the Executive branch, and effectively neuter the Judicial branch.
Its been publically admitted by many of the acts proponents that it drastically reduces the Judicial branches powers, greatly restricts personal freedoms, and grants the executive branch almost police state powers, but that was always prefaced with the promise that it was a temporary measure for a particularly volatile period. Now, the 'temporary' measure appears to be a permanent fixture, which is probably only fair since the "war on terrorism" itself will likely last longer than any of us will live.
When will Microsoft support this chip feature in Quickbasic?
I'm tired of RANDOMIZE TIMER ing, dammit!
In many American states the police have discretion to arrest someone for carrying a toothpick or seize that toothpick if they feel it is being carried with intent to use it as a weapon and in a concealed manner. Again, its not even about what you really intend to do, just what the cop figures you intend to do.
In other words, if you keep a toothpick in your pocket you'd damned well better have some corn nearby.
The slippery slope argument isn't legitimate in and of itself, but when you've got a system of government that will use any precident to take away any remotely similar rights, there's something to be said for it.
FWIW its already illegal to report about something the government considers harmful under the Patriot act, because if it intimidates someone to hear it then the reporting itself is a terrorist action.
I believe the correct spelling is "New-key-lurr"
Pretty sure the point would be lost on her, since to these people the government is 100% benevolent and would never think to abuse its power.
If anything that might underscore to her the need for the government to have all this information, so they could track you down for daring to make a political statement.
Since I don't care about a certain thing, anyone who does is clearly just a troll.
Anyhow, I think Trolltech's licensing problems go a little deeper than just proprietary apps, namely, they bill it as a crossplatform environment but they only offer a GPLed version on certain platforms.
Rumor has it the new systems will also feature the usability of OpenBSD and the reliability of Windows 98.
Don't Gzip the living, that's a felony.