Slashdot Mirror
Beige Box Apple Clone?
steve.m writes "Finally it looks like I'll be able to get a cheap box to run MacOSX on, but not from Apple! John Fraser is (sort of) getting into the clone business 5 years after Apple shut down their 3 year long 'experiment' in licensing the hardware. Based on off the shelf apple components in a custom pizza box style case with no bolted on display, a barebones 'iBox' will be around 300 USD and require a processor, disk and memory (and the OS). Complete systems (again, without the OS) should start at around 650 USD."
My first power mac was a umax 600 - its great to see someone picking up the 'mac clone' business again. maybe it will help apple's overall marketshare... and w/ marketshare comes more users, w/ more users comes more software, w/ all of that comes reduced prices & improved performance, etc etc. All good stuff.
hopefully steve jobs won't try to shut him down out of fear that this will siphon sales away from 'proper' macs...
Isn't that what Dell's trying to do? ;-)
since i could easily run a pretty decent server off of an old g4/450 and x, i can see where a bunch of these could come in handy. he's certainly filling a void.... here's hoping that the project actually comes out and doesn't get bogged down in rl or, more likely, foxed.
fingers are crossed.
So what are the chances that this will actually make it to market? This reminds me of those companies that made the first real Macintosh laptops by using Mac Plus guts.
I smell lawsuit! Read the EULA for Mac OS X.
Apparently nobody is aware that Mac OS X CAN'T BE RUN (legally) on non-Apple hardware? It's in the license. So what's the point?
Don't think for a second Apple won't enforce it. That doesn't mean they will shut this guy down, but I'm sure they'll put "if (running_on_dudes_clone) exit()" in their next OS update.
Who do people think Apple is, Red Hat? They don't WANT clones to exist. Heck, Apple developers don't want clones to exist either. That's how Apple has avoided the pains in the ass that Windows has to put up with. You know exactly what machine your software/hardward is plugged into.
I give this guy maybe a year before he goes out of business.
He's using spare parts manufactured by Apple and sold to repair shops. Why do I have a funny feeling that there's language in the repair parts purchase agreement that prohibits them from being used in just this fashion? IANAL, and IANAACT, but that would be the obvious way to prevent this.
I can already see Mike Tyson in the Switch ad:
"I was looking at this lolita sight and all of a sudden beep... beep... beep. I was like, bummer. It was a good sight.
I'm Mike Tyson and iBox."
I claim full responsibility for this development - after all, I spent £2500+ on a powerbook last week (which I really can't afford but you know, mmm, titanium...) so of course a cheaper option is going to be just around the corner...
- Welcome the coming of the New World Odour
In other news the iBox company mysteriously dissapeared after being sued in over 300 different lawsuits by an entity described as "a powerful fruit-based technology company" ...film at 11
He's building computers using spare parts boards for other systems. So I'm not sure what you are gaining over a regular Mac. Sounds like the DIY Mac using e-bay article that was posted a while back on Slashdot.
"I think he would be wise to talk to a patent attorney before he does anything else,"
Apple isn't exactly known for their kindness to "clone" makers..
Will the price of spare parts remain the same if they are used (eventually in large quantities) for building iBoxes?
The free market has some laws.
Bye!
May it be (if it finds it's legal way to the market) a new possibility for having linux-boxes without "OS-tax"?
"But I want to get Apple's full support. I want to make sure I'm on the up and up. I'm an Apple supporter. It's not something I want to clash with them about. I want to make sure what I'm doing is legal."
How is creating a low cost box that will cut into Apple's hardware sales (where they make the MAJORITY of their revenue) "supporting" Apple?
Sure sounds like "clashing" to me.
apple legal is going to go after him for creating brand confusion and misleading the consumer into thinking the "ibox" is an apple product.
I wish him luck, but I bet he's going to get squashed by apple legal.
From the article:
Dickson also cautioned Fraser to be careful not to infringe any patents. Even if Fraser uses Apple parts, Dickson said the company may hold patents governing how they are put together. The patents may not even be held by Apple, but by another PC manufacturer, Dickson said.
How on Earth could a patent be granted for this? I mean, how many ways could you plug a CPU into a motherboard, or a PCI card into a PCI slot? Ridiculous...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
... a group of lawyers in Cupertino, CA. have gathered together and are finializing their cease and desist letter.
I guess in a couple of days we'll be reading about how this guy is no longer making these.
Good-Luck John Fraser, you're going to need it!
Apple only builds enough motherboards for use as warranty replacements and for existing owners who have fried theirs. Apple will certainly put a stop to this guy.
I bet this will end up like the failed Mac clones from a few years back.
A clone market would either a) drive Apple out of business, or b) take away the one unique factor which sets them apart in the industry: vertical integration. Either way, the platform and the entire industry loses big.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
....So... he's not providing the CPU? What's the fucking point then? Is it even possible to remove the CPU out of a Mac, and if so, what's the point? Or will we have to buy 3rd-party CPU cards. Lame.
What about things like the Terrasoft briQ? That runs YellowDog and can't they run OSX? It is a PPC after all... but I don't have one so I dunno...
Check out MKDoc a mod_perl CMS
$250 to $350 for a case, MB, and PS.....
DAMN! that thing better be the schweetest MoBo evar! and a 1000 watt PS with 30 HD power connectors!
Seems doomed from the start?!?
Where can you get the hardware for this? And, somewhat less importantly, can you do case mods on these things?
To those in the know re Power PC hardware, what is the performance of a system like this compared to an x86 box, relative to price?
Would it be worthwhile to use as a Linux box?
So I'm a little fuzzy on this whole required-hardware thing...How come I cant get OSX to run in VMware or some other emulator for Linux or Windows? I don't see why we have to buy any extra hardware just to run OS X.
If darwin runs on X86 (and it does), what is stopping people from porting the rest of the components? Is it the license? Closed Source?
What is so bad about clones? I don't believe there is any money to be made from hardware sales. The profit margin is too small. Apple should follow in Microsoft's footsteps and make an OS only. They should allow the hardware manufacturers to worry about the chips and motherboards. Can you imagine if Apple released an version of their OS that could run on standard Intel/AMD chips? They would be competing head to head with Microsoft for market share. Apple's market share right now is so small there is no way it could shrink. I think if the cost of entry (expensive, slow proprietary Apple brand hardware) for switching to Apple's OS was cheap, many more people would be willing to give it a shot.
It looks like they managed to make it look like..original..
With a dual CPU capable MB this could become a winner
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
This kid has about a zero chance of succeeding. I'm not even sure why he deserves this much press coverage. It sounds like a story from The Onion.com.
Local Boy Discusses Cool Idea with Friends
Local boy has great idea to make his own macs. "Sure, it's been tried before but failed miserably due to Apple's licensing restrictions, but it sure would be cool to try," he says. "Just think of all the press coverage I'd get! It's guaranteed to make the frontpage at Slashdot. Maybe I'll even get some venture capitalists to invest mass amounts of money that I'll launder to a swiss bank account before succumbing to legal pressure and declaring bankrupcy. I can't go wrong!"
That's right, you don't know. Mac OS will only boot on a system if it contains Apple's copyrighted bootloader. And guess what - Apple won't let you put it on the computers that you make.
The article states the motherboards from Apple have the Apple ROMS that allows OS X to boot. I would assume the Terrasoft boards don't contain an Apple ROM chip.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
This is not really a Mac "clone". It's simply using used Mac parts and repackaging them. It's not like the PC market where you can build a NEW and current pc. Hardly a beige box like clone. People have been doing this for years, I have a repackaged Mac SE (it's in a rack mount case) from way back when.
John Fraser, if you read this, I would sure as heck not call this thing the i-box! Let everybody else call it that, but not you.
Apple will jump hard on you for that. It's going to be very difficult to convince a judge that you're not trying to fit this in with the i-mac and the i-book. In fact, I'd say it will be impossible.
The only way to win this lawsuit is to have deeper legal pockets than Apple. Don't try.
Name it something else like: TINAA. It stands for This Is Not An Apple. It sounds good to me, though I haven't researched the IP issues. A quick Google only turned up Finish and apparently one proper name.
Good luck!
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
If they are do end up selling these then I would really like to get one. I've always like the MacOS and as some things like the aqua skin for enlightenment however the price of apple macs has always been a bit out of my league.
One of those things that is on my wish list
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
no apple firmware means no apple os running. you need an apple firmware to run an apple os.
The briq is actually from www.totalimpact.com
I use 60 or so of them as a renderfarm for 3d graphics and they're great.
-- oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc
OK, I can see why Apple want to limit the number of hardware configurations possible, so they wouldn't ship it barebones - but why don't they make an entry level, pizza-box Mac that you can plug into commodity monitors?
From the article: ...Apple is notoriously protective of its intellectual property, and has not hesitated to go after hardware manufacturers, software publishers and websites for infringement...
The iBox will go over at Apple, Inc. like a snowball in Hell.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
And there will be a large expansion slot on the front where you insert your pizza, and it is cooked by the heat from those *very* warm Apple motherboards.
Other World Computing is one of the bigger Apple resellers and their support is quite interesting. In a lot of ways, Apple is going to have a hard time attacking him just because one of their closest allies is supporting him (though I do think he is going to need a new name--iProduct is just too close to Apple names to not cause "brand confusion"). Of course, this could be interesting--either Jobs & Co. do a Bush and ruin relations with all their allies and friends, or they allow it to go ahead and only cripple it behind the scenes. I am betting they just manage to get the supply costs to skyrocket and make the eMac/iMac more competitive with his soon-to-be higher priced box. But that is just a prediction. Maybe they will realize that if his box is well made, it could help them win market share in the low-cost category.
Of course, the ideal situation is for Apple to let him exist and just use him as the bargain basement entree into Apple-land. That way, Apple can continue to make super-high quality boxes and let him eek out a profit as the Walmart PC of the Apple world.
sounds kinda like Amiga... use the Mac hardware, but do it right...
shnifty!
Apple's ROMs have always been the key reason that their machine hasn't been cloned.
I've always wondered why they don't use the same technique that the original BIOS cloners used to make a working IBM clone BIOS that was 100% legal.
I don't remember the specifics on the technique, but it involved two completely seperate groups of engineers within the same company who had strictly limited contact with eachother governing how one group reverse-engineered the BIOS, and how the other group created a new BIOS based solely on descriptions of how it operated, without having any specific copyright information that the first group had access to.
I remember being somewhat fascinated when I originally heard about it. Of course now, it's probably illegal due to the DMCA (which probably would've killed the PC revolution had it been on the books 20 years ago).
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Read this sentence a couple of times. Apple-made motherboards preloaded with Macintosh ROMs -- the vital piece of hardware-cum-software that makes a Mac a Mac.
At least I though it was funny. But seriously, someone already mentioned that OSX is not licensed to run on something other than a Mac, but I would believe that the ROMs are even more protected.
no text
Fraser, look dude, you announce to the world (Wired) that you're going to repackage Mac parts, call your machine an iBox, and you haven't contacted Apple about it?? Are you stoned?
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
The speed just isn't coming from IBM/Moto to compete with Intel/AMD.
So fighting this seems kind of moot, as Apple needs to migrate OS X to x86 architecture real soon now.
Sounds like a good idea, why should Apple not be subjected to the same competition that the PC world has faced for years? I just do not understand why only Apple sells their stuff, it would maybe encourage them to put out even better products than they already produce, maybe cheaper. The more people that have Macs the better if i were Apple. That is what you call an "Installed user base" to pitch your next batch of products to, maybe if Macs were cheaper, then more people would own them. Personally I am eyeing the 12" Powerbook with the Superdrive, only 2000 USD. :)
I hate sigs.
...new Apple computers are way too fast to run MacOSX. I'd much rather have an older slower one.
He has zero zip no chance of pulling this off. None. Apple will simply not let this happen and no amount of second-guessing will prevent it. They have a history of easily squashing people who they thought were treading on their patents, copyrights and good name. Some guy making home-built Macs may be a tiny drop in the bucket but now that it's out in the open he's all done.
This guy might as well give it up right now. Apple will not accept or allow this.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
I bought one of those UMAX clones... they supported multiple processors before Apple did! What a great machine that was.
If Apple did this, they wouldn't be Apple anymore. That is one of the things that makes a mac so damn stable. There is a limited pool of devices you are going to encounter, and most of them connect by firewire/usb. Compare that to the horrible kluge of motherboard/chip/VGA card/memory types/network card/sound card combinations that PC's have to deal with. If Apple licensed its OS, they would quickly become irrelevant as a sea of cheap, unreliable knockoffs tarnished the Apple name.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
There's no reason to buy this case if you want to run OS X. The costs will be about the same because OS X is outrageously expensive (It's an OS), the processor upgrade companies gouge you, and other components are bound to be scarce enough that you will be paying near near full price compared to the x86 market where components are hideously cheap.
Basically, this is an "OK" idea if you're vehemently opposed to giving Apple your $xxx for their OS and want to use a PPC based *nix because you've got something against x86 and can't afford an IBM PPC box or other alternative hardware (Alpha, Sparc, etc).
It goes without saying there are Apple hardware collectors that just buy obscure hardware to say they have it. There's always a market for them. "Look I got one of 500 iboxes before he got shut down!"
hardware-cum-software
That is a double entendre if I ever heard one...
And pretty accurately describes what happens.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
I'm trying to work out how all this is going to be put together.
I've just looked through the specifications of this thing on his site, and he lists it as having two PCI slots and an AGP slot. On the 'conceptual design' pictures though there's external access to one PCI slot (at the rear), and then immediately next to it is the 'monitor' connection and an ethernet socket.
The problem with this is that it simply doesn't seem to have space to put in the second PCI card, or even the AGP slot. The machine picture gives the nice 'sleek' image which wouldn't be tall enough to have a twin-PCI riser, and there's absolutely no space for a graphics card between the PCI and ethernet let alone a modern one with a stonkingly huge heat-sink stuck on the side.
If this is do-able then I'm guessing the internals are going to be so messy with strange flying PCI cards, and an AGP with a little lead extending to the monitor slot, that they're going to be nightmarish to engineer reliably.
Can anyone see how this can be done tidily?
404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
No, MacOS can't run on a briQ... but Linux and MacOnLinux can.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Hmmmm
Seems like it to me
hardly beige
I frequent the site where John and Mario started playing with this idea. There was always talk about Apple lacking an entry-level Mac that could be upgraded - basically a headless iMac with a PCI slot. It started out as a proof-of-concept to show that Apple could indeed make decent hardware below $800 and make a profit and was never intended to be built.
Recently, they decided to actually go through with it and build a few. Since the start-up costs for the case mold were expensive, John asked if anyone else was interested in such a machine and if there would be enough interest to warrant the cost of molding the cases. A lot of people were interested in just buying the case while some were hoping to buy fully-configured machines. I believe he was planning to offer both, or limited system building at least. Anyway, the rest is apparently history as interest seems to be increasing enough to possibly go to a much larger production. As a side note, mac reseller OWC frequents the same forum and as such, probably contacted John about selling them if the demand was large enough. Also, the case has yet to be made and the design I don't think is finalized. Last I knew, John needed to test the thermal properties of the case to make sure there was enough cooling to provide a stable machine. Hope this helps provide some more info.
Why dont they let people simply make generic clones?
IBM certianly didn't die a horrible death and their line of PC workstations and laptops is still a strong seller.
Apple must be happy being 2nd and soon to be 3rd banana (yes linux users will overtake Apple users in numbers soon)
Hell Apple is second banana to the Pc conglomerate DELL!
maybe someday the executives will pull their heads out of their arses and get on the ball to increased profitability.
but I highly doubt it..
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
... to include a $120 copy of OS X, then why on earth would I buy it? I can get a brand new machine with far better reliability and reputation by spending $999.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
even if barebones is $300, add it up:
$300 base system
$329 800 MHz G4 (powerlogix)
$25 256 MB RAM (if you're lucky)
$25 56K modem (estimation)
$68 60 GB HD
$250 decent 17" monitor
$150 dvd burner (estimation)
$129 OSX, system software
$150 mac compatible graphics card
--------
$1426 + however much for shipping
the eMac with these exact specs costs $1299.
if you're arguing for expandability: a dual 867 MHz G4 from powerlogix costs $749, bringing our system cost up to $1846. and that's for an old system.
upgrade to a decent dual 1.2 GHz ($1099) and your system costs $2196. that's compared to $1999 for a dual 1.25 GHz from apple with DDR, firewire 800, an 80 gig drive, and bluetooth capability, with an extra ATA100 controller.
Sorry, Fraser: math says, you lose.
What a great supportive community slashdot is
/. before he started.
10% saying 'good job. Go for it'.
30% saying 'you'll be sued and I feel somewhat happy about it'.
60% saying 'you'll fail miserably'
Good thing Linus never read
Apple has NOTHING to worry about from young Mr. Fraser. As discussed in the article, Fraser said he doesn't have any grand plans for building the iBox business into the next Dell or Gateway. "I'm not doing it for profit," he said. "I'm doing it for a hobby.
On the contrary, those who purchase these systems could be in for some serious headaches if they ever need tech support. I can't see Mr. Fraser being able to take his hobby seriously if he's personally getting phone calls from nebie users in Dallas, Topeka, and Seattle. Don't get me wrong, I wish Mr. Fraser much happiness and little frustration in his hobby. He has very little hope (and, it appears, no desire) to make this in any way a threat to Apple's business model.
Apple's best strategy in this case is to ignore the close and 2khappyware give a real-world example of the differences between a small-time clone and a bona fide Apple.
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
He's using NEW parts sold for refurbishing old Macs. They aren't used parts. Not that he's doing anything new other than buying all the parts for you and putting them together, which isn't new but it's news; considering it's Apple he's going to be taking on.
You can purchase all of the parts you need to put together your own Mac for around $700 last time I checked. Plus, you can use some of the faster IBM cpus that Apple's not even using (yet?).
put the what in the where?
Had this guy owned an Atari ST way-back-when, he'd know the problems of relying upon Apple parts meant for repairs. Many Atari ST owners bought the MagicSac and SpectreGCR Mac emulators which consisted of a cartridge that you bought and plugged in Apple Mac OS Rom chips, and then slid it into the Atari ST's cartridge port. They were great. You could have a far more powerful Macintosh (and the ST was more powerful to begin with) at a savings of more than half the cost of an actual Macintosh. When Atari brought out its laptop (the STacy), with the emulators, it became the first Macintosh laptop. This infuriated Apple, and they threatened to sue any Mac repair shop/dealership that actually sold Mac Roms to people not actually requiring repairs... The better route to a Mac clone is to get IBM and Nvidia to produce an NForce type mobo chipset for the PowerPC 970 under the guise of having another platform to run Linux on with a 64bit chip and no chance of Palladium being placed in the BIOS (since AMD and Intel are both vying for the Microsoft payments). Then someone could come out with a hack for OS X Panther to run on it without shutting down due to not detecting an Apple BIOS or whatever protection scheme they have cooked up... It would be pretty funny; IBM turning the clone strategy on some other company. But then again, this would cater to the PC enthusiast market who do not normally buy Apple anyways, and as long as they actually purchased the OS and didn't pirate it, this would benefit Apple tremendously...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Now that's funny!!!
Where are my mod points when I need them?
Forget patents and Apple's objections. Even with a UL/CSA approved power supply,you will need to to get certification on the entire system as sold. that means meeting FCC EMI requirements for consumer products and at least UL fireproof, electrical leakage etc. requirements. How long will this kid last if he gets even a single lawsuit? Designing a product is more work and investment than most think. You can't just slap a mobo in a cheap plastic molded case and forget about the real engineering. What about cooling? The case needs to be metallic coated for EMI, the plastics need to be flame tested, Ac leakage tests performed etc. I seriously doubt it can be done for less than 30K$US. For even 1000 units - it's not worth it. Better off selling the emtpy cases and allowing people to take the risk of self-assembly. Besides, at 350$US, adding a cpu, memory, hard drive, external CD, keyboard mouse, you're getting close to 1K$. Why drop a grand on an older and obsolete system with PC100 ram (good luck finding that these days). Buy yourself a decent 2-3Ghz AMD/INTEL clone box, with 266/33Mhz ra, a 200 gig drive and won't worry if it's PPC or not. I'll hold on to my VISA deposit for now.
Another GNU fan throws his hat into the recursive acronym ring!!! Seriously though, that's exactly what I thought. Not TINAA, but for fuck's sake don't call it I-Box. What about J-Max or JF-Max, or even better, Max Power!
John, I love the idea, I had the idea myself a few months back; but please, please reconsider the branding or you'll quickly find yourself the worm in the Apple, and will be sumarily removed.
put the what in the where?
So he needs about, $3.50?
Had you read the article, you'd know he is using motherboards Apple sells for repair and spare part purposes. Manufacturers supply boards like that with much lower than retail markup because they're intended to serve its existing user base.
So future Apple consumers will have a choice: Buy an Apple system from Apple for $N, of which X% is profit for apple. Or buy an Apple clone from someone else for less than $N, of which less than X% (of a much lower amount) is profit for Apple. This doesn't exactly pad Apple's bottom line like they need it right now. I'm all for competition, but this could cannibalize Apple's revenues at a time they need all the help they can get.
Apple + Competition = ? If he can succeed (legally)... would this open the door to others following suite? Could it mean legal loopholes which will allow Apple to be cloned? Might benefit the Apple market in general, spurr competition, lower prices, get more publicity. If Apple licensed clones, would they be as popular as PCs are today? Given the nature of OS X, (both asthetically, and hey, it's BSD,) I'd say yes.
94% of /. talks shit to fit in and actually run Windows.
On December 19, 2002, Tech TV's The Screen Savers aired an episode in which Kevin Rose built a G4 in an ATX case. Most of the parts came from Mac Resq and others. It's an interesting article for anyone who wishes to tackle the project by themselves.
The segment was inspired by an aricle on MacOpz Web Site. I urge all to check it out.
Though this might end up costing a little more, there are benefits: You get to choose your own case (which must be slightly modified), and get the pleasure of building a computer that normally isn't built by anyone except Apple and the pizza box guy.
Mr. Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time is enemy action.
The whole point of Apple is that THERE IS NO 3rd party. Yes the Mac is expensive upfront, but look at it this way : if you buy a PC, either assembled or part-by-part, you know you're going to spend hours, no, days tweaking it and stamping out the zillions of compatibility issues and hardware glitches. If you buy a Mac, Apple has already done all that tweaking and testing and you have a solid finished product, identical to the other millions of Macs sold all over. You don't have to futz with a Mac, it just works and works well. You have to pay for that extra effort and quality, but in the long run you save lots of time (thus money).
Now if this guy sells you a naked board, and you find a CPU somewhere, then a cheap-cheap IDE drive from your favorite asian importer, and some Kingston Value Crap Ram, well you have yourself a 1500$ iBox with an identity crisis. And it is really much cheaper than a 'true' Mac ? Not that much.
If you want a cheap Mac, buy it used or get a lower-end model. If you just want the cheapest computer, then go grab a 500$ PC from Walmart. The bottom line is that a fully-equipped PC that works as well as a Mac, costs as much as a Mac.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
BTW Microsoft makes more than Apple for each Mac sold. The profit margin on MS Office is larger than the profit margin on the hardware and OSX (or OS9, or OS10.2).
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
Bender : And what better way to celebrate our success, than by me showing Bubblegum the Globetrotter uniform I made myself.
Bubblegum : Lemme see... Hello lawsuit!
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
...drive to Texas and wash your car. I wouldn't mind some rain. ;)
Wait! Is there somekind of EULA in Slashdot that forbids me running windows?
Crap, you got me there.
(Just talking shit here. Leave my barely positive __Karma__ alone!)
Bot Assisted Blogging
"I'm not doing it for profit," he said. "I'm doing it for a hobby."
He might think it's a hobby but I assure you that the IRS will take another view. This quote is the real indicator of how to bet as to whether this venture will be successful.
i would love to make this into my next debian server! is it just me or do RISC architectures just rule for the smoothe multitasking i want from a server?
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
I thought that Apple used OpenFirmware (IEEE-1275). What's so proprietary about that?
That makes no sense. The ROMS were only until the Beige G3's. Since OS8, the ROM was a file stored on the hard drive.
The only thing keying OSX is the system identification, but because of Darwin, it is possible to work around the ID check by using a fixed boot.
We shall construct a Grand Clone Army to combat this evil that is Microsoft, and Intel. I am glad to hear that someone has the courage to build clones again. I miss the days when owning a Power Computing machine was cool in the macworld.
The Apple ROM's are extremely complicated. It's not like a PC BIOS, but more like a mini operating system.
He plans to add a GPS PCI card to let the software know the PHYSICAL LOCATION of the firewire port.... [snare drum roll] Thanks for the laughs, I'll be here all week.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
Umm. They can write a contract that says we sell you this hardware and you may never use it for any purpose and if you don't agree to these terms, return the hardware. Now, you the End User can argue that the contract is one where there's unequal bargaining power, it's a contract of adhesion or unconscionable, but people write contracts regarding hardware all the time [see Licitra v. Gateway 2000 in NYS]
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
This started with the fellow just wanting to _prove to Apple_ that it could be done... in other words, prove that a low cost yet upgreadeable Mac could be produced. It has morphed into "prove to ourselves that we can do it". It is so far a project for tinkering.
Why all the fuss? Lots of people build their own PC, is Dell, or AMD, or whoever coming round to smash their kneecaps? No. So why, cannot a Mac user or users "tinker & build their own"?
There has a been a sea of attempts like this in the past. People forget you don't want a "mac clone" since it doesn't come with the "mac experience". The PC world has never been the place to be for this very reason. Having consistancy from the mouse to the last pixel on the screen is worth big bucks, if you care about quality. Sure there are plenty of people that want to "tinker" and not concerned with overall "value"... SO... sure this guy can sell EMPTY boxes without the motherboard, then set up another company selling old G3, G4 boards, with instructions on how to place it in his other box. Anything else, Apple will not allow. And shouldn't allow! REAL Macs are CHEAP! just check out eBay... this guy doesn't stand a chance. AC
For the same price ($650)... with the OS... fully supported by Apple... Or if you don't like the iMac you can buy a used tower for $1500 (www.smalldog.com). I mean really... people clammer about Macs not being cheap. But if you say that, and you're serious about getting a Mac for cheap, then you're just not looking very hard. But wait, I forgot, it doesn't play games. Bah. I don't make my money playing games.
Am I the only one who remembers the Apple clones from the mid 90's? I beleive UMAX made them and some other company.. uh.. power computer or something along those lines.
:)
Then again, I worked for apple support at the time. what a nightmare
I am the lord of the pun. Dance Knave!
They would cut the price! That is how you
increase market share. They price themselves
out of a bigger market. With a marketing plan
like they have, they deserve to fail!
And before you start flinging accusations,
I STILL own my Apple II+, IIe, IIc and IIgs
systems from way back! Back then they had
clone systems, and people still bought Apple
brand. Apple prided themselves on being open.
What happened!?!
I'd buy a new Mac, if it were cheaper... Lots
of cheaper sales are better than a few sales at
a higher price. I speak from personal experience!
He's not really building clones . . . he's simply repacking Macs . . . if he takes a Biege G3 ZIF motherboard and puts it in a box with no memory, hard drive or processor . . . what's he really doing?
Clones implies different (compatible) hardware, the original Mac clones were great becuase they actually pushed apple in areas they probably wouldn't have moved too (at least under the leadership at the time).
This guy just sounds like someone destined to go out of business.
It wasn't done with Apple because it would cost too much: Apple's BIOS was much larger than IBM's was. It contained basic code for keyboard, mouse, and windowing systems (including code to draw basic windows and icons, which were copyrighted). An original Mac with no disk could still boot to a graphical error mesage and working cursor, and there was cost/speed savings for Apple as well.
Newer Macs don't have as extensive a BIOS (and I'm not sure what is in it), but Apple now protects itself in other ways.
'Sensible' is a curse word.
It's a monopoly goddammit! They're controlling everything! They make the hardware, the software, and the operating system! A monopoly! A monopoly I say! Those fuckers should rot in hell!
yep, reverse engineering is a big no no in the DMCA. Because that means you most likely had to break some sort of protection. Which means you're a big fat criminal!
Or did you mean "kind toward potential copyright infringment by 19-year-old kids"? That's different. ;)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
good shot, red 2
Geez get a grip people, it's a great idea, pretty much proved it could be done, it's a hobby, it's a tinker project, it's not some guy rolling Apple Clones off an assembly line fer goodness sakes. Just having a bit of fun building a neat box out of spare parts.
PULE on, bruh!
You should be careful in implying the assumption that everyone who uses an Apple computer also buys and uses Microsoft Office.
This is simply not the case and I'm skeptical that the profit margin of Office is far enough greater than the margins on Apple hardware *plus* the operating system to still be greater "for each Mac sold" when taking into account the fact that a Mac sale does not necessarily imply an Office sale.
Back in the early 90's they had the Umax, Radius (sp?), and PowerComputing clones and had plans for a common hardware reference platform (CHRP) for powerPC with IBM that eventually fell through.
The problem with this model is that Apple relies solely on people buying its highest end models for dekstop publishing for high profit margins while they HOPED the clones would try and target the "common man" market that had almost no profit margin. This would, in theory, increase the installed user base and lure a few more people that would be dumb enough to buy the Apple model for twice its PC counterpart's price. Being real companies with roots in the desktop publishing industry, the clone makers did just the opposite and made higher end desktops than Apple was making. They dominated the high end workstation market with faster hardware at cheaper prices because they didn't have a software development overhead to support. Apple profits plummeted between 1995 and 1998 because of this, IIRC.
It was around this time that Apple nearly went out of business. Obviously, it's a very dumb idea unless Apple wants to abandon the hardware business. But then they will surely be edged out of the market through Microsoft's dominance over the popular hardware platforms. Apple will always be playing second runner to whatever standards Microsoft creates.
Didn't Apple move away from using ROM for their operating systems since it made it impossible to upgrade the OS passed the points where binary compatability was broken?
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
IS slashdot new for phreakers now? /hides
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
Apple's had their retail strategy in the working for years now. Careful where you go with that, since Apple might have had the idea first. They're both copying Dell's strategy of retail and wholesale options.
They built a scale mockup in a warehouse and tried multiple designs and styles, finally settling on the perfect layout and criteria for each store.
For what it's worth, when will Apple realize that
a) now that they have an awesome OS, they have a huge untapped market of new customers who aren't used to paying $1200 for a low-end computer,
b) there is money to be made on the low end,
c) There are people who want a mac but can't/won't pay those prices.
d) Getting more market share (from low-end customers) will help get more product support for the mac.
It's frustrating to see apple refuse to go after a large segment of the population (like me!), and I really think they could introduce a cheaper mac without poaching their others if they're careful.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
OS X licencing issues aside, how does this effort compare to the responsiveness and/or application performance vs. running OS X over Linux via Mac-on-Linux?
AFAIK there are at least 3 efforts to make a COTS PowerPC system that will run Linux, and therefore Mac-on-Linux:
- TerraSoft (which apparently was having production problems or something, but should be commercially available shortly)
- a next-gen Amiga work-alike, complete with OS, whose name escapes me at the moment
- the next-gen Amiga
It's really not hard. Since I was hearing a lot about OSX and wanted to try it myself, but don't have the big bucks to buy a 'true' mac, I decided to build my own. As a side note, I have been building my own PCs since 1997.
I got a beige G3 motherboard off eBay for $100, complete with 300MHz CPU/fan, 128M RAM, voltage regulator and ROM, as well as the audio "personality" card. I reused an older standard ATX case and power supply - taking advantage of the ability of the beige G3s to run from an ATX supply (there's a jumper on the motherboard which selects between a Apple-style PS and a standard ATX PS). I needed to do some drilling in the motherboard-supporting tray to get holes that corresponded to the mounting holes in the mobo. And remove the backplate - but that was it. I connected a basic ATAPI CD-ROM, and an older IDE HDD that was lying around, and it works perfectly fine. Happily runs OSX 10.2.4 now.
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
John Fraser, a 21-year-old engineer from Chanhassen, Minnesota
Has anyone ever met a "21-year-old" Engineer? I know I personally would purchase a MAC clone from this guy if he were really an Engineer. That is an accredit Engineer who graduated from a four year ABET accredited program, took an FET exam, practiced as an Engineer in Training for four years and then took his PE exam. What do ya bet he is not a legal Engineer at 21?
Maybe I am just jealous because I am 21 and have yet to graduate from college, much less call myself an Engineer.
I'm not entirely sure about this. Apple releases a $100+ OS upgrade which most Mac users buy every 2 years or so.
... Another key source of income for Apple is their AppleCare package
Bzzt!!
Apple sold about 100K Jaguar boxes in its first weekend. For Apple, that's pretty damn good. Assuming, say, ten times that many have purchased it since, that makes a million users--or roughly 1/25 to 1/30 of their entire userbase. Most? Apple only wishes.
so software sales just from the OS are a big chunk of Apple's income, add in other Mac apps, and the percentage goes up
According to Apple's last SEC filing, "Software and Other [Products]" accounted for $155 million out of $1.4 billion in revenue. That's around 10 percent. That's less than what Apple made ($218 mil) selling just peripherals (mice, keyboards, speakers). Given these lean times, every little bit helps, but Apple investors want to know the company is selling computers, not software.
Let me give everyone a little insight on slashdot. I'm using older Apple motherboards. The situation differs from Outbound in that they were using just the apple roms on a non apple motherboard. AND the demand is going to well exceede the number of iboxes which will be under 2000 (this is all the motherboards I can find).
Most if not all of the traditional motherboard companies either are producing or have the capability to produce barebones systems: a chassis, a motherboard, and some additional parts. The reason Apple won't let this take off is that the third party barebones makers could try this same strategy, transforming authorized Apple service shops into resellers for Apple components. Cupertino will likely see this as degrading the quality of the brand, and act accordingly.
Conclusion: sorry, Charlie. It ain't gonna happen.
this hacked together POS FrankenMac when I can go to outpost.com and purchase a refurbished eMac for $700. Oh, and for an extra $150 I can get AppleCare.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
... because now i can get an apple with multiple mouse buttons!
SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
Yes, after you cum, your "hardware" becomes soft.
Can I offer you some viagra?
Or a book on how you can acheive multiple orgasms?
Or perhaps I should point you to JackinWorld, where you can learn how to last untill she comes.
And if you're not in the USA, and somebody catches you doing it, you can just say that you're supporting this effort.
I read some people here saying that they'll "finally be able to run Linux on PPC in an affordable way". Well, I wonder if there are no other cheaper alternatives.
I, for one, run basically free software only, and hate x86. I'd love to run Linux on a better-thought-out architecture, but alternatives are usually _so_ much more expensive.
If this guy can make a PPC machine costing US$ 650,00 using Apple motherboards (which I assume are more expensive than no-name PPC motherboards), does that mean I could put together a generic PPC machine for less? Is there some company out there that does that? Are there any other alternatives, ARM perhaps?
So many questions...
The filesystem is the package manager
I've used OSX and find it to be the best OS I've used to date. However, current Apple prices put a good Mac out of my reach.
:-)
I am anxiously awaiting a good, inexpensive clone.
Awesome!
I can guarantee you that for that price this hardware is going to be weak. Sure, I have my Rev B iMac sittin right next to me, with a 500 Mhz G3 plus Firewire upgrade no less. It runs OS X, is relatively inexpensive, but it's slow! I'm typing right now on my 1 Ghz TiBook, which of course runs OS X at a hefty clip, but also comes with a hefty price. To get decent Apple hardware to run OS X, it's not going to be possible with used goods. OS X is the best OS ever IMO, but it's also a hardware hog. These computers at $500 a pop or whatever will be G3's in the 500 mhz range I would guess, the guy is going to be looking for old iMac motherboards. It's not a revolutionary idea, nor is it a money saving idea. As long as apple is the only person making apple hardware, it's not going to get any cheaper for what you get. Look in any Mac catalog, all the computer prices are the same, what you get is more extra stuff thrown in. You can't lower the price on mac hardware, you can only buy dated stuff.
-Alex
Quick quiz, which came first? Gateway Country or the Apple Store?
Both of which were pre-dated by CompuAdd (and maybe others). So what? Opening a retail store is hardly a hardware design (which was what I was talking about). Anyway, Apple's move was to make up for losing retailers, not to be innovative (though I'm sure they'd be more than happy to let you think that).
Apple's ideas are never innovative: the Mac OS was a rip-off of the Xerox Alto machines and Smalltalk, and even the early Apple machines were based almost entirely on earlier designs by companies like Altair and IMSAI.
Then by your definition, there are no new innovative designs. Since every gui today can be traced back to the PARC work and if by being based on the Altair (sorry, but the IMSAI was direct Altair clone) means that it had a motherboard and a bus then I guess, sorta, well not quite. The Altair was a S100 based machine that didn't even have a "motherboard". AFAIK, the Apple II bus was not derived from the S100 and was more an extension of the 6502 address/data lines. Which also brings up the point that the Altair ran the 8080, vs 6502, two very different chips. In what ways was the Apple II series "based almost entirely on earlier designs"?
As usual, another Apple fanboy misses the mark entirely.
Now that's funny. Apple fanboy. Either you're making sweeping generalities about the computing industry in general (in which case your argument is irrelevant for this particular discussion) or your grasp on history is severly limited and/or short sighted.
A clone is something that is made to be compatible with an existing model base, but in fact is physically different hardware. These are simply repackaged Mac hardware (motherboards) that this guy is reselling. Nothing more. It would be like me going out and buying a iMac then possibly upgrading the the processor, then putting it one of my own custom cases.
These are not clones in any way.
I believe that Mac OS can be run on non-apple, PPC systems using MoL. I'm very impressed with the speed of the program, but without 3d acceleration it won't be running Quake3 any time soon.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
No, Be was only a sort-kinda clone-like Apple only in that their BeBox hardware was PowerPC cpu based and their OS originally would run on a Power Mac.
Unfortunately Be is dead now, Bill Gates killed them.
I like his idea; if I got a Euro for every person who told me that they would like to have a Mac but couldn't afford it, I'd be able to buy a Apple branded G4.
There is also a huge crowd of very knowledgable Mac owners who have to satisfy themselves with older systems or iMacs because they can not afford to buy the luscious Apple Pro systems while they would love to tinker as much as their PC buddies can with their systems of 500-600 Euros. Some of those I know switched to PC hardware because they got fed up with Apple's stance of exploiting their customer's loyalty and keeping prices high.
There is a huge demand for low cost Apple-compatible hardware which can be expanded easily.
Apple could play this very smart by providing hardware to him and since it will be Apple hardware MacOS X will not have too many hiccups running on it.
Apple could even explicitly include a paragraph in their OS X EULA in which they state that they do not garantuee, support or claim OS X to be fit for any non-Apple branded hardware.
Their hardware sales would go up, their OS X sales would go up and -most importantly- the Apple Clones would help Apple to conquer market and credibility with MicroStuffed IT Managers.
While Apple makes good hardware in a superior design with unequated software integration, they have to dump their 'People will buy it if they see the intrinsic superiority of our systems'. People will drool, will moan and will google for an MacOS X theme for Windows.
I'd call it aBox though since the concept is lumping hardware PC style in a box. The 'a' could stand for alternative.
Using the 'i'-nomenclature for hardware would be the same as wearing a 'iGotSuedbyApple' tag
My point is that "kindness" is a virtue that is unique to individual humans. It is no more associated with a corporation than "happy", "sad", "angry", or any other really tenuous anthropomorphizations you might bolt on.
A corporation is not a person. The legal "decision" that created this fallacy is the root of a lot of the problems I see today.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Well, reverse engineering is protected by almost every free trade law in existance. Besides, large companies could always open an office in another country without that draconian law and do the work there. The US government could try to prevent them from selling their products here, but I doubt that they would be very successful in other countries.
but I wish that Apple would sell ATX-compatable motherboards to the public. I would love to be able to select my own components.
Apple doesn't exactly use MacOS roms any more. I believe they stopped sometime around OS 9 and switched to storing the ROM on disk. Either way, MacOnLinux can successfully boot OSX without a rom. Roms were an issue when the 68k was around. They're not anymore.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Linux or BSD on x86 offers me great software on powerful hardware.
OS X on Mac boxes offers me a beautiful case and Apple support.
What does a beige Mac offer me? None of the above? I must rush out and buy one right away.
Beep beep.
Sorry, but Ben and Jerry got bought out. That brand is owned by just another big company.
This is just a big noise, no meat story
1. Some people are doing similar things already.
Look at it carefully. All he does is repacked some spare parts. It's not a complete system and by the time you make it complete system it will cost about the same as cheapest eMac. But no warranty, no support, no style and only hype.
Marathon was offering rack mount Power Macs way before XServe, but they did not get in trouble.
2. It's not a clone.
The only way it could have real success (and only probable problem for Apple) if a big manufacturer would make it, using their own motherboard and all other parts from the market.
3. I understand why Apple does not want clones. What I do not understand is why Apple does not make a $200-$400 part, sell it to clone maker along with permition/ability to buy and install OSX. So if Apple then can make about $500 per clone, it should not hurt them. Then companies like IBM could make servers, SGI could make hi-end graphics systems and direct their current customers to OSX
4. If all this will work out and price will be low and Apple won't kill him it will be permanent backorder company.
5. if someone so desparete for cheap mac, just buy used, or even non-working one, and fix it. it will be cheaper than iBox
Wow that's great! In his great zeal to make money doing something many before him have done for their own enjoyment, he will likely kill the ability to get Apple Certified Repair parts! Awesome!
To those who seek to purchase and build a Mac from parts, have you ever thought of why you can get gigabit logic boards for cheap, whereas there is only a small number of Digital Audio, QuickSilver, and Mirror Drive Doors(well MDD is inverted)? Could it perhaps be that the GE boards are inherently flawed? There are actually two versions of the board...the sturdier, almost deep brown/black version, and the el cheapo light green version...I have had more than a few of these and built more than a few from parts Macs, and I can tell you that the latter is not very reliable. I actually had one turn a cap to ash ( not related to using QuickSilver power supplies) and another just flat out smoke....others just not work for no discernable reason...most if not all have a diode piggybacked to an IC on the board...does that reek of quality or what!;D
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple decides to impose tighter restrictions on the flow of boards...
Also, what are you getting with a Gigabit board? Sure you have Gigabit ethernet, but you have a 100mhz bus, 2x AGP slot, ATA66, and only 3 PCI slots...Even with a newer GigaDesigns, PowerLogiz, or Sonnet CPU, you aren't cutting edge by any means...I know it would be fine for some, but to say it's competetive is somewhat misleading...
--"It's Bradford Company, slash your last name, dot your first name"
The only issue I see is apple requiring "Cores" on all repair parts like auto parts-to keep them in the family. That said, IBM tried that with AS400 parts but the courts have ruled that used/spare parts can't be completely controlled. [anti-competitive and all] It's still really hard to find IBM parts because they tie all upgrade sales to "cores" of your previous equipment for a big discount. But if you buy your system outright they can't stop you from reselling it--just try to make it worth your while not too.
If he sold just the case and bits with some "instructions" to build a system he wouldn't get in trouble and dodge the bullet. That would leave apple cracking down on their own channel which I can't see them doing--and getting some cheap marketing out of the deal too. He does need to ditch the name or change the product--way too close to an apple product names. perhaps ibox-computer case would fly though as an after market apple-related part. The courts haven't given them ieverthing yet!
...is that there is a gap in the Mac market for an entry level machine priced in the emac range but without a built in monitor and with some upgrade/expansion potential.
If Apple wanted to have a machine in this price range on the market, that's what they would put out. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it.
If this guy can build upgradable g4 Macs for $1000 or however much it was for a box that is actually usable, think about how cheap it would be for Apple themselves to do it.
Jag pratar lite svenska.
Now I can afford a machine that runs Mac OS X! Yay!
Where's that URL... I guess its name is "Yellow Hound" or something...
not to be an ass... but did you read the article? It plainly states that they are based on g4 processors. The motherboards are spare parts from gigabit ethernet g4s... They support g4's upto (I believe) 1400 MHZ.
Considering that anything that smells of a Mac clone will surely be squashed by Apple lawyers, why doesn't he just sell the case? As is stated on the site: " A Big thank you to Mick e (dealchatter) for him to allow us to use his iBox design. His design is the reason so many people are interested." Since it's going to be barebone anyway, the target market is already capable of finding their own parts, and buying a Gigabit motherboard is not terribly difficult. I doubt Apple would be able to stop him from selling a piece of plastic and power supply to hobbyists...
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
For one thing it's not even in production yet, and another the project is just called the "iBox Project" the original box will be called something else. There would be a AGP right angle extender that will allow the video card to be parallel to the logicboard. Insider may just make the case and sell that.
this box wasn't made for the general public, just for the few of us on dealmac who were interested, pulebag:P
There's no extra civil charge if you shoot someone that you used your gun outside the manufacturer's prescribed usage. The criminal act is what is forbidden, whether you buy or make your own gun does not matter.
I don't believe that there are any physical exceptions to this, and <offtopic>most of Europe makes no exception for software. Eventually the logic of the situation will force the U.S. to comply or be harmed economically.</offtopic>
-Ryan C.
-Ryan C.
Not that its unexpected but $300 US for the Mobo and CPU for - presumably a decent G3 - is a fraction of what I would pay even for a student discouted desktop. Apple puts huge markups on the harddrive and memory and I can't order a system w/o it despite the fact I have 3 in my case right now.
Either Apple should lower hardware prices a few extra hundred bucks or give students a better break ( hey, I am a student! ).
I've wanted to get a Mac for a long time now and I'm too tempted to order one from California and have it shipped up the Canada.
ummmm...excuse me...hes using pizza boxes? how well do those shield? I suppose if he used the dominoes heat wave...
Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself cou
He has specced a completely custom case, and this is the wrong way to go.
The cost of production for this case in the low quantities he will have, will be more than the cost of all other components combined.
I'm not certain if the Apple motherboards use the ATX form-factor or not, but a better option would be a form-factor adapter (mounting brackets) that allowed you to use any standard ATX mid- or full-tower.
Jason
Well being that he is 21. He may not know Apple's history. But he will soon find out that Apple doesnt take kindly to anything copying them and will pursue him legally harder than M$ ever would.
I guess drawing 5% of the computer world doesnt get much attention but Apple is worse than M$ in many ways that it protects its property.
Come on, we know that any new cloners have to use this web browser...
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
OK, and someone tell me why you stupid bastards on dealmac would be interested. Let's see, you're interested because
a) You're stupid and should be sterilized before you can spread your inferior genes into our already stressed gene pool (assuming you ever breed that is)
b) You can't do basic math, i.e, you aren't smart enough to look around and see that you can get an eMac for $700.
c) You've got some sort of anti-establishment bug up your ass and it adds meaning to your pathetic life to "stick it to the man" by purchasing one of these POS.
d) You need another box to rest empty bags of Cheetos and bottles of Mountain Dew on in your parent's basement.
e) You post on slashdot under Anonymous Coward because they don't have an "ignorant dipshit" ID for anonymous postings.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
These fuckers avoid competition at all costs. Aplle is for idiots.
Drugs are bad. Mmmm-kay.
So what's the big hairy deal, the modules are easily available.
They're no more hassle than a slot 1 PII or Slot A Athlon
...is to see Apple sell barebones motherboards,memory and CPUs to anybody who wants to buy one. I should then be able to put this into the ATX case of my choice. They would still make money.
Now normally I would just immediately say he is going to get sued witout hessitating, but with some of the reason news and events I have heard about recently its possible that apple may let him slide. Personally I hope that he can sell custom mac boxes, maybe it will open up Apple's market to a larger croud.
Anyways that what I think, as always I am problebly 99.9% wrong...
This sig was generated by a barrel of trained kittens for SeXy_Red (550409).
So this guy found a temporary loophole... it's slightly cheaper to buy an Apple motherboard and stuff it in a generic box, then to buy an equiv. apple model...
Apple will squish this by raising the price on replacement parts... then giving rebates/discounts to "Apple Authorized Repair Centers" (lowering the price back to standard levels), a perk that 2khappyware will never enjoy, and therefore will cause him to go out of business, since he can't remain cheaper.
Joe Macuser can still get discounted prices on replacement parts by buying direct from Apple or a repair center, but the number of parts that can be purchased per day/month/year will be limited to something larger then average-guy needs, but less then clone-maker needs.
He's basically mass producing something that you could make today if you wanted to. If you can't afford a real mac, then hurry up and buy one of this guy's (they aren't for sale yet) because he won't be around long.
OK, fool me once, shame on you: I bought a 128MB CAS=2 PC100 DIMM from OWC because they had the best price. Turned out, they sent me a 64MB DIMM by mistake. Tried it in several PCs and my G3, all saw it as 64. Got an RMA, sent it back, and got an email from them later saying, to the effect of, "It is TOO a 128MB DIMM!!!" They dinged me for a restocking fee. Fuckers.
Fool me twice, shame on me: I ordered a DVD-ROM from OWC thinking it was a combo drive. I realized my mistake and within an hour of making the order emailed them with the message "Please cancel order...made a mistake, sorry about that." I confirmed the next morning that yes indeed, the order had been cancelled. Fast forward to the Monday after that Friday. The order was put through a second time, my credit card was charged, and the DVD-ROM was sent winging my way via FedEx. Imagine my surprise when a DVD-ROM arrived at my apartment two days later. I had no idea they put the order through again.
I hit the roof, and called OWC and bitched. "You ordered this." "No, I cancelled the order. I want an RMA." I then quoted them chapter and verse on who I talked to that last Friday confirming that the order had been cancelled. Finally I got my RMA and I sent the damn drive back.
See, this is an old Telemarketing trick. If someone balks on an order, send it anyway and charge the mark's card anyway. 9 times out of 10 the mark will just say "screw it," keep the order, and you will have made yourself a sale.
They finally reimbursed my account (two weeks later!) and I found that they had deducted a restocking fee from the amount they owed me for the fraudulent sale. I went ballistic and sent in a dispute of the restocking fee with VISA. Why should I be charged a restocking fee for something sent to me fraudulently? If anything, by rights I should have been refunded for the cost of shipping the damn drive back.
Never again, man, never again. The fucked thing is that OWC has practically got a monopoly on bargain-basement Mac parts. Yeah, there's MacResQ and Small Dog, but they are small potatoes next to OWC. [sigh]
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
remember being somewhat fascinated when I originally heard about it. Of course now, it's probably illegal due to the DMCA (which probably would've killed the PC revolution had it been on the books 20 years ago). /. about this ages ago.. but nothing :/
Exactly, I sent in a post to
da!!as
Never.
You are right about the fact that this is not a clone but i doubt this guy will go out of business soon. There are many people who will want to build their own mac using all official hardware AND this is a cheap way to build a mac.
Also i wonder if it would be possible for another company to buy these in bulk and repackage them as complete computers with some type of interesting change to make it worth buying from them. Is this essential OEM mac parts?
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen! The primary knock against cheap Macs like the iMac and eMac are that they can't be expanded. This guy has the solution sitting in his lap grrr.....!
Yeah, I don't really disagree with much of what you said. Apple *is* innovative and creative. (Certainly, they are compared to most clone makers, if nothing else.)
I'm just not convinced their niche customer base would really change in any significant way if Apple clones were produced again. The folks that are happy and willing to pay the "fashion tax" and "R&D fees" that come as part of an Apple Mac system purchase will still do so when offered with alternatives of generic beige boxes running Apple's software.
(As one loyal Mac user recently told me, "I just wouldn't trust purchasing a Mac clone. The OS and the software are ultimately created and controlled by Apple, and what if some update(s) they did broke support on the clones? How quickly would a fix be produced for the problem, if ever?")
What it *would* do is potentially open up their niche market to other types of customers who ignore/avoid Apple right now. I'm talking about the "function over form!" guys who think it's insane to pay a few extra bucks for a system that has the LCD panel on an arm and looks like a lampshade. I'm also talking about those on limited budgets who resign themselves to buying the cheapest PC at Walmart or some eMachines clone at Best Buy - even if they fully agree that OS X would probably be a cooler operating system to use.
To anyone who thinks this iBox is the way to finally get their first Mac I say: Go for it. Personally I find you people very irritating, almost as irritating as the gigahertz nutballs who think a faster central processor is the end-all, and will discuss it for days on end (without seemingly doing any work during that time).
As I am totally convinced this iBox will be a catastrophe, I encourage you to waste your money. You deserve to lose the pittance you are willing to part with for an "Apple".
Apples are not expensive, but they do cost money - just as much for you as for the rest of us. Some of us take the plunge and buy one; the rest of of - YOU - just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and...
And talk and talk and talk...
Mostly at SlashDot of course.
From this point of view, Apple completly changed its approach. In the old days, systems were often free (you can download system 7.5) but the hardware was locked down. Nowadays the hardware is quite open, and so is the kernel, but the upper layer OS is locked down.
For example, let's say that Apple, in Europe, told repair centers that in order to buy a motherboard from them, they had to send back the bad motherboard that it replaced.
How exactly is that restraint of trade? That's what a lot of Apple's repair contracts actually look like.
This guy is buying large lots of motherboards from eBay or something, not from repair centers. Repair centers pay too much for the motherboards, and/or have the contract where a bad mobo is returned for each new one sent out, and/or are too large to piss Apple off in this way.
I just bought a lot of 8 G4 motherboards... and found out I can't test them, because they don't fit in my G4. *sigh* Maybe someone will buy them 'as-is'.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.