Why does China need Google? Is there anything Google does that Baidu can't, or won't be able to with a little motivation?
Google would thrive if China disappeared, sure. But if Google were forced out of China, to be replaced by Bing (for exampley), that would put them at a competitive disadvantage, even outside of China.
Well, this, for example. And I did say, "won't be the case forever." More to the point, so far as the Chinese citizenry is concerned, is the fact that Google isn't a Chinese operation, and indexes knowledge that Baidu would never be permitted to make available. Google, thanks to Sergey Brin's feelings on the matter, isn't likely to permit itself to be used to implicate Chinese citizens for crimes against the State. That attitude is precisely what this squabble is all about, and is why Bing, for example, isn't being treated the same way.
I have to wonder, sometimes, if China is building up to closing off their internets to the outside world entirely, or getting the rest of the 'internet community' to do it for them, by acting so irrationally?
They can't do that and maintain the economic relationships that are currently so important to them. The Great Firewall is, when you get right down to it, an attempt to have their cake and eat it too... they want to allow the international traffic that they consider beneficial, and block everything else.
I thought Google was going to take their bat and ball and go home... oh, right, they backed down because they didn't want to lose such a big market.
I know this is kind of wishful thinking on my part, but I sure wish these continued shenanigans on the part of the Chinese government would lead to some big international players deciding that the potential gains aren't worth jumping through all the hoops and playing nice when all China seems to do is screw 'em over every chance they get.
Never happen, at least not until things get much, much worse than they are now. China has managed to make too many foreign countries (like, say, the United States) dependent upon China's manufacturing and certain key raw materials. That gives them a lot of leverage. Funny, a lot of people complain about the United States' behavior on the world scene (not without reason, I'll be the first to admit) but China is, I believe, posing a much bigger problem. Long term, we are going to regret not having taken a harder line, not taken steps to preserve our economic independence.
With the Great Firewall, I have a hard time believing that an attack originating from a Chinese IP was not government backed.
Depends. If you think that the Chinese government is interested in playing nice with the rest of the world, and would concern themselves over an American company (that they already dislike) being attacked by some Chinese third-party and would therefore block said attack... well.
>We built it, and among its many purposes were to further the freedoms of the United States of America.
yes, please please please cut the USA off from the rest of the world. Then the rest of us wont have to keep reading about Sarah Palin or right wing religious nutjobs, and you can all go polish your guns in peace.
Ignorant, bigoted comments like that make me want to shut your country off. Most Americans wouldn't even know how to hit anything with a firearm, much less want to own one, and Sarah Palin isn't exactly "popular". Indeed, if anything her presence as McCain's running mate cost him any possibility of winning the Presidency. So there's a certain subset of us that can't actually think, I agree, but I think you'll find that's true anywhere. You, for instance.
They won't block all external communications services. Just the ones that won't filter and spy as the Chinese government wants.
True, but at this point, Google is one of those services that won't kowtow and that China also happens to need. That won't be the case forever, I assume, but for now blocking Google (regardless of Google's stance on censorship and spying) would cause far more damage to China's business and scientific sectors. Google would survive and thrive if China vanished from the face of the Earth tomorrow morning.
So you are proposing instead of having thousands and thousands software companies, to have only a few, like Google,Apple,MS, and that would be enough? For the biodiversity i mean. Wow, i have so good sense of humour.
Except in EU, and there is ONE BIG exceptions in USA. Do you know it? It is called aspartam. Try to google it, but be warned, it could make you stop drinking Coke, forever....
The taste of Diet Coke was enough to make me stop drinking it, forever. But you're right: substantial corruption was necessary for Aspartame (originally deemed unsafe by the FDA) to gain regulatory approval. I avoid the stuff, personally. Water and the occasional beer do just fine for me, so far as beverages are concerned.
Actually, it is the opposite. They cow milk is know to the human race for some few 1000 years, and YET we, the human beings, are still not able to digest it!
But of course, playing with the DNA of the animals and vegetables is much more safer, and predictable, right?
Btw, in medicine, they have some very simple rule. DO NOT mix 2-3-4 medicine, without knowing after many many years of tests what the final result could be (and even then do it precaution), and yet you MIX the very foundation of life, the kernel if you let me say, and without knowing even the slightest side effect!!!!!
Sorry boy, you are plainly 1st grade.
Ouch. You do realize that the human race has been genetically modifying plants and animals for thousands of years in order to promulgate those characteristics we consider most beneficial to us? Genetic engineering is more direct nowadays, but nevertheless it is nothing new.
To the contrary, if we are created in God's image, and God could create beings with free will, then we should be able to do the same. If AI requires an intelligent designer, isn't that the ultimate proof of a God?
That won't matter to many people, because only God can provide a soul (whatever that is, and whatever it happens to mean to those to who believe in them at any particular time) so such a mind, no matter that it's more capable than those of its creators, won't be real to them. Some people have real problems accepting that we are all just naturally-occurring organic machines, and have a pathological need to have their own lives validated by the existence of a Supreme being who (supposedly) created them to look kinda like him. and loves them too, sort of, that is when he isn't going all Skynet on them.
To me, it's all unjustified and unjustifiable racial self-glorification that isn't borne out by the facts. But hey, I'm in the minority, and I could certainly be wrong.
But I don't think so. I'd love to know for certain that there is an afterlife, that there is a Heaven, and that by doing certain things, by living my life in a certain way, I can be assured of my place there. The problem is, every religious order on this planet has a different idea of what the entrance exam is going to require, none of them can agree on precisely what we're supposed to do to cram for it, but ALL are convinced that theirs is the One True Way.
That's kinda confusing for a guy like me. They can't all be right (or can they?) but in the end, I guess you just have to have Faith. Maybe if the billions of believers could get their collective act together and figure this out I might be convinced to Believe, but vague generalities and references to various Good Books don't cut it for me. As of right now it's pellucidly obvious that none of them have a clue as to what's going to happen when we all, at long last, go down into the dark. What they have is Faith, which is not the same thing.
I don't know whether machine consciousness is possible or not, but basing your position on the claim that "people will never be able to do that" has a long history of being wrong.
True, and a lot of this depends upon how you define a "machine". Will an artificial intelligence be in the form of racks of microelectronics like HAL, or will it be something more organic in nature? I think that most people think of "machine intelligence" as having a lot of blinking lights on its front panel, but that may not be how it happens. They're already creating very simple synthetic organisms now, so growing a actual living brain (pardon me, "organic computer") doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. It wouldn't even need to be as complicated as ours: much of our brains have nothing whatsoever to do with cognition but are just there to run our bodies.
Except that the industry is already heavily regulated. Don't bash free market capitalism when the government is heavily involved.
It's heavily regulated in some areas, but there are specific consumer-protection elements that are missing. If the regulation were working, we'd have quality-of-service levels and consumer policies that would rival that of Europe and even many third-world countries... but we don't. What we have is s toothless governing body and a corrupt Congress that are permitting the big boys to do pretty much whatever they want with us. So yes, I am bashing free market capitalism when it isn't working well, and there are plenty of examples worldwide on how to do it right.
I'm damned glad I waited for a TMO G2. I've heard a lot of horror stories about AT&T. I wouldn't even consider them. I know They're trying to buy TMO, but I don't care so much about that. I have a rooted G2 with a custom ROM that does everything rather nicely. This phone will probably outlast me.
I agree 100%. The G2 is like a tank, and with Cyanogenmod 7 (I've been running the nightlies, I think I'm at #92) the thing is greased lightning. I don't even bother overclocking anymore (although CM7 provides that right there in the Settings menu) since it's so fast now.
The problem comes in when they start disconnecting phones that aren't running their stock firmware loads. You know that's coming. AT&T, Verizon and Sprint have never been friendly towards phones that weren't purchased directly from them, and it remains to be seen what AT&T will do with all those T-Mobile users accustomed to doing what they want their devices.
If there was ever an example of why laissez faire doesn't work, this is it. This industry is incapable of regulating itself.
Above statement doesn't mean that I agree with Sprint's policies, but it does offer a workaround.
HTC makes it really easy to root, almost encouraged even.
Cell phones are nice, but they can be expensive. And if you are required to keep one for work, then having 2 in your pocket is annoying. Ooma is a way to have your OWN phone number forever for minimal money.
If the cell phone in question is Android - and you can get a cheap Chinese one for less than $150 - then Google Voice will give you the same integrated experience (you can tell the phone to use it for all calls), and you'll also have your own phone number that you can keep.
True, and you can also run something like CSipSimple and use pretty much any SIP provider. I use mine through pbxes.org and it works just fine (I configured it to use Google Voice for my outgoing trunk line.)
If Microsoft decides to switch them over to Windows (and they may), it won't be a rush job done a few weeks after the announcement of intent to purchase. It'll happen after months of work and planning, and after the sale is final.
Very true... this is a substantial project and it won't go over well if they screw it up. This isn't just about people talking to their grandmothers in another country, business use of Skype is enormous and growing (another reason I'd like Microsoft to stay the hell out of it.) Matter of fact, Skype has shown just exactly how well VoIP can work on a massive scale, and if Microsoft fumbles the ball (which is also likely) it will leave room for a competitor to move in and take over. Google Voice, maybe. The tough part for such a service is all the deals with local telcos that Skype worked out for POTS access around the world, but it can obviously be done.
Correlation doesn't imply causation, but where there's correlation you can't automaticall rule out causation without further study. I'd be willing to bet that MS will screw up Skype considering their history.
Microsoft probably shouldn't be allowed to buy other companies for that reason alone. Although, Hotmail is still around and is one of the biggest Webmail services in the world outside of the U.S.
Slashdot Mirror
Why does China need Google? Is there anything Google does that Baidu can't, or won't be able to with a little motivation?
Google would thrive if China disappeared, sure. But if Google were forced out of China, to be replaced by Bing (for exampley), that would put them at a competitive disadvantage, even outside of China.
Well, this, for example. And I did say, "won't be the case forever." More to the point, so far as the Chinese citizenry is concerned, is the fact that Google isn't a Chinese operation, and indexes knowledge that Baidu would never be permitted to make available. Google, thanks to Sergey Brin's feelings on the matter, isn't likely to permit itself to be used to implicate Chinese citizens for crimes against the State. That attitude is precisely what this squabble is all about, and is why Bing, for example, isn't being treated the same way.
I have to wonder, sometimes, if China is building up to closing off their internets to the outside world entirely, or getting the rest of the 'internet community' to do it for them, by acting so irrationally?
They can't do that and maintain the economic relationships that are currently so important to them. The Great Firewall is, when you get right down to it, an attempt to have their cake and eat it too ... they want to allow the international traffic that they consider beneficial, and block everything else.
In practice, that's not so easy to do.
I thought Google was going to take their bat and ball and go home... oh, right, they backed down because they didn't want to lose such a big market.
I know this is kind of wishful thinking on my part, but I sure wish these continued shenanigans on the part of the Chinese government would lead to some big international players deciding that the potential gains aren't worth jumping through all the hoops and playing nice when all China seems to do is screw 'em over every chance they get.
Never happen, at least not until things get much, much worse than they are now. China has managed to make too many foreign countries (like, say, the United States) dependent upon China's manufacturing and certain key raw materials. That gives them a lot of leverage. Funny, a lot of people complain about the United States' behavior on the world scene (not without reason, I'll be the first to admit) but China is, I believe, posing a much bigger problem. Long term, we are going to regret not having taken a harder line, not taken steps to preserve our economic independence.
I dunno about Google per se, but Eric "I'm a total douchebag" Schmidt appears besides the word "tool" in every major English dictionary.
He's not actually the CEO anymore, you know.
With the Great Firewall, I have a hard time believing that an attack originating from a Chinese IP was not government backed.
Depends. If you think that the Chinese government is interested in playing nice with the rest of the world, and would concern themselves over an American company (that they already dislike) being attacked by some Chinese third-party and would therefore block said attack ... well.
>We built it, and among its many purposes were to further the freedoms of the United States of America.
yes, please please please cut the USA off from the rest of the world. Then the rest of us wont have to keep reading about Sarah Palin or right wing religious nutjobs, and you can all go polish your guns in peace.
Ignorant, bigoted comments like that make me want to shut your country off. Most Americans wouldn't even know how to hit anything with a firearm, much less want to own one, and Sarah Palin isn't exactly "popular". Indeed, if anything her presence as McCain's running mate cost him any possibility of winning the Presidency. So there's a certain subset of us that can't actually think, I agree, but I think you'll find that's true anywhere. You, for instance.
Wow, since when do factual statements get modded down on slashdot?
Lots of people disagree with facts. It makes them appear irrational to the rest of us, but hey.
They won't block all external communications services. Just the ones that won't filter and spy as the Chinese government wants.
True, but at this point, Google is one of those services that won't kowtow and that China also happens to need. That won't be the case forever, I assume, but for now blocking Google (regardless of Google's stance on censorship and spying) would cause far more damage to China's business and scientific sectors. Google would survive and thrive if China vanished from the face of the Earth tomorrow morning.
So you are proposing instead of having thousands and thousands software companies, to have only a few, like Google,Apple,MS, and that would be enough? For the biodiversity i mean. Wow, i have so good sense of humour.
Re-read the GP's comment.
Except in EU, and there is ONE BIG exceptions in USA. Do you know it? It is called aspartam. Try to google it, but be warned, it could make you stop drinking Coke, forever....
The taste of Diet Coke was enough to make me stop drinking it, forever. But you're right: substantial corruption was necessary for Aspartame (originally deemed unsafe by the FDA) to gain regulatory approval. I avoid the stuff, personally. Water and the occasional beer do just fine for me, so far as beverages are concerned.
Define "unsafe".
"Not absolutely, perfectly, risk-free under all conditions"
Actually, it is the opposite. They cow milk is know to the human race for some few 1000 years, and YET we, the human beings, are still not able to digest it! But of course, playing with the DNA of the animals and vegetables is much more safer, and predictable, right? Btw, in medicine, they have some very simple rule. DO NOT mix 2-3-4 medicine, without knowing after many many years of tests what the final result could be (and even then do it precaution), and yet you MIX the very foundation of life, the kernel if you let me say, and without knowing even the slightest side effect!!!!! Sorry boy, you are plainly 1st grade.
Ouch. You do realize that the human race has been genetically modifying plants and animals for thousands of years in order to promulgate those characteristics we consider most beneficial to us? Genetic engineering is more direct nowadays, but nevertheless it is nothing new.
then I trust the free market to make the right decision and choose the seed that is best for the food supply.
That, actually, is a mistake in an era of regulatory capture and corporatism. You think that only applies to the phone company and ISPs?
To the contrary, if we are created in God's image, and God could create beings with free will, then we should be able to do the same. If AI requires an intelligent designer, isn't that the ultimate proof of a God?
That won't matter to many people, because only God can provide a soul (whatever that is, and whatever it happens to mean to those to who believe in them at any particular time) so such a mind, no matter that it's more capable than those of its creators, won't be real to them. Some people have real problems accepting that we are all just naturally-occurring organic machines, and have a pathological need to have their own lives validated by the existence of a Supreme being who (supposedly) created them to look kinda like him. and loves them too, sort of, that is when he isn't going all Skynet on them.
To me, it's all unjustified and unjustifiable racial self-glorification that isn't borne out by the facts. But hey, I'm in the minority, and I could certainly be wrong.
But I don't think so. I'd love to know for certain that there is an afterlife, that there is a Heaven, and that by doing certain things, by living my life in a certain way, I can be assured of my place there. The problem is, every religious order on this planet has a different idea of what the entrance exam is going to require, none of them can agree on precisely what we're supposed to do to cram for it, but ALL are convinced that theirs is the One True Way.
That's kinda confusing for a guy like me. They can't all be right (or can they?) but in the end, I guess you just have to have Faith. Maybe if the billions of believers could get their collective act together and figure this out I might be convinced to Believe, but vague generalities and references to various Good Books don't cut it for me. As of right now it's pellucidly obvious that none of them have a clue as to what's going to happen when we all, at long last, go down into the dark. What they have is Faith, which is not the same thing.
I don't know whether machine consciousness is possible or not, but basing your position on the claim that "people will never be able to do that" has a long history of being wrong.
True, and a lot of this depends upon how you define a "machine". Will an artificial intelligence be in the form of racks of microelectronics like HAL, or will it be something more organic in nature? I think that most people think of "machine intelligence" as having a lot of blinking lights on its front panel, but that may not be how it happens. They're already creating very simple synthetic organisms now, so growing a actual living brain (pardon me, "organic computer") doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. It wouldn't even need to be as complicated as ours: much of our brains have nothing whatsoever to do with cognition but are just there to run our bodies.
Most people's ideas about AI are based on what they've seen in movies.
Which tends to be polarized between Skynet and C-3PO, with not a lot in between (or outside) of those two extremes.
Except that the industry is already heavily regulated. Don't bash free market capitalism when the government is heavily involved.
It's heavily regulated in some areas, but there are specific consumer-protection elements that are missing. If the regulation were working, we'd have quality-of-service levels and consumer policies that would rival that of Europe and even many third-world countries ... but we don't. What we have is s toothless governing body and a corrupt Congress that are permitting the big boys to do pretty much whatever they want with us. So yes, I am bashing free market capitalism when it isn't working well, and there are plenty of examples worldwide on how to do it right.
Having made the choice to go in, you have to follow through
Why, exactly?
I'm damned glad I waited for a TMO G2. I've heard a lot of horror stories about AT&T. I wouldn't even consider them. I know They're trying to buy TMO, but I don't care so much about that. I have a rooted G2 with a custom ROM that does everything rather nicely. This phone will probably outlast me.
I agree 100%. The G2 is like a tank, and with Cyanogenmod 7 (I've been running the nightlies, I think I'm at #92) the thing is greased lightning. I don't even bother overclocking anymore (although CM7 provides that right there in the Settings menu) since it's so fast now.
The problem comes in when they start disconnecting phones that aren't running their stock firmware loads. You know that's coming. AT&T, Verizon and Sprint have never been friendly towards phones that weren't purchased directly from them, and it remains to be seen what AT&T will do with all those T-Mobile users accustomed to doing what they want their devices.
If there was ever an example of why laissez faire doesn't work, this is it. This industry is incapable of regulating itself.
On IOS devices, this also saves you room. On Android it doesn't since those unwanted apps are stored in the firmware.
Not sure what this is supposed to mean - removing system apps on my Droid X definitely frees up space. Maybe you meant the other way around?
If you delete a file ... the space it takes is recovered. He must mean that it doesn't free up any space in the user partition. I guess.
Above statement doesn't mean that I agree with Sprint's policies, but it does offer a workaround. HTC makes it really easy to root, almost encouraged even.
Yes, especially the Evo
Cell phones are nice, but they can be expensive. And if you are required to keep one for work, then having 2 in your pocket is annoying. Ooma is a way to have your OWN phone number forever for minimal money.
If the cell phone in question is Android - and you can get a cheap Chinese one for less than $150 - then Google Voice will give you the same integrated experience (you can tell the phone to use it for all calls), and you'll also have your own phone number that you can keep.
True, and you can also run something like CSipSimple and use pretty much any SIP provider. I use mine through pbxes.org and it works just fine (I configured it to use Google Voice for my outgoing trunk line.)
I have an Ooma phone.
I bought a standalone cordless Skype phone. Supports both regular POTS calls and has Skype firmware in it. Works great.
If Microsoft decides to switch them over to Windows (and they may), it won't be a rush job done a few weeks after the announcement of intent to purchase. It'll happen after months of work and planning, and after the sale is final.
Very true ... this is a substantial project and it won't go over well if they screw it up. This isn't just about people talking to their grandmothers in another country, business use of Skype is enormous and growing (another reason I'd like Microsoft to stay the hell out of it.) Matter of fact, Skype has shown just exactly how well VoIP can work on a massive scale, and if Microsoft fumbles the ball (which is also likely) it will leave room for a competitor to move in and take over. Google Voice, maybe. The tough part for such a service is all the deals with local telcos that Skype worked out for POTS access around the world, but it can obviously be done.
Correlation doesn't imply causation, but where there's correlation you can't automaticall rule out causation without further study. I'd be willing to bet that MS will screw up Skype considering their history.
Microsoft probably shouldn't be allowed to buy other companies for that reason alone. Although, Hotmail is still around and is one of the biggest Webmail services in the world outside of the U.S.