It's an expensive device, for sure (and I don't have one), but if it does exactly what its purchaser wants, is that a ripoff?
Like you say, a Dell Mini 10/9 can provide that function for you, but what if I don't want a permanent keyboard? Or I want a tablet-shape?
Right now, the iPad would be excellent purely as a textbook reader - just my organic chemistry book alone is 1600 pages and is a severe PITA to carry around, so for that I would much prefer the form factor of the iPad over a netbook.
Based on your figures the price premium is £164, which is quite a chunk of change but I expect that to come down with revision 2 - I'd hardly call it a "huge ripoff", but I am also not going to claim it is right for everyone.
Re:The same can be said for Microsoft's domination
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Why Apple Is So Sticky
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No, because the http server thing is a bit of a hack - an ingenious one, but it exists to solve a problem (configuring a headless device) with a large number of computers. The old method would be to hook it up with a serial cable and configure it that way. The http server is not a bad way of doing it - I mean, it's a good way to ensure many things will be able to connect to your device, it's just unnecessary if the majority of your customers don't need it because their OS already has the ability to configure it without it.
The embedded http server exists so you can configure it without doing that.
As it stands right now, OS X *ships* with the ability to configure the Airport stations out of the box. "By default" you do not need to open your web browser to configure it. You can launch the config by hand any time you like, or OS X can do so if you click "assist me" when setting up your wireless connection. (you also don't need the CD on a Mac, although it ships with the latest version of the Mac utility at the time in case you're using a really old Mac that hasn't been on the net since the late 90s).
Who needs a web interface when you have a tool that does the same thing?
The whole point of the story is "stickiness" - and in this sense, it doesn't apply because Apple *do* provide a config utility if you want to change platforms but don't want to buy a new device. It was designed to work primarily with Macs (but obviously, provide client access to anything that supports WiFi), so it doesn't feature a web config utility.
Re:The same can be said for Microsoft's domination
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Why Apple Is So Sticky
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· Score: 1
The reason it has that "intentionally difficult to configure" system is because the software that controls it is built into OS X, so if you want to do it from Windows, you need something equivalent. The other method would be to embed a little http server on the device so you could use a web browser, but for the majority of people who use it, it is just a needless addition to the device (ie, Apple users tend to buy Airport devices, you are unlikely to buy one if you only have a Windows environment).
The "hurdle" only exists because by default, OS X can configure the device out of the box. For Windows, you just have to put the CD in.
Also, Apple completely eliminated expanded polystyrene from its packaging a long time ago.
Re:The same can be said for Microsoft's domination
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Why Apple Is So Sticky
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· Score: 1
Why replace the computer? Just install Windows on it - you don;t need to replace it if you are sick of OS X and want to go back to Windows. Apple even includes all the Windows drivers for each Mac on the install discs that come with your Mac.
The router works just fine - I admin an Airport Extreme that exists in a pure Windows environment (I gave it to a friend when his router failed).
Windows *does* support firewire - it seems you are just looking for excuses to create artificial divides between the platforms. Windows has supported firewire for many years, even if the ports are uncommon on desktops. Many PC laptops have them, and the Mac certainly does (which you can install windows on).
The Apple Mighty Mouse and Magic Mouse both work just fine on Windows - no need to replace either one.
I'm looking at specifics - so far you have mentioned that you didn't like iTunes as the sole method of getting music and moves onto your portable music player, that is a fair comment.
So, the rest - "mac servers, even windows servers are more stable" - care to back that up with some evidence? What Mac server were you running, and what was it doing that made it crash so much? Who was looking after it?
Laptops - you have just gone for the usual hand waving of "they're more expensive for the same task" - I assume you're discounting the construction material and the features. Show me the laptops you have compared them to where you get "the same" things from a Windows laptop.
Re:The same can be said for Microsoft's domination
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Why Apple Is So Sticky
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· Score: 1
Alternatively, if he doesn't have one of those OS versions, he can use http://support.apple.com/kb/DL456 which runs on Windows 2000 and Win XP SP2.
If he doesn't have a machine that meets any of those specs, then such is life, he would have to go out and replace the hardware - but even having an Airport Express in the first place (either for a Mac or PC) I assume he would have checked the system requirements - essentially any OS that runs iTunes.
If he threw it in the back of the cupboard, can I have it? If he was defeated by that hurdle, you may have to help him fill in my address and show him how to use the post office, but I'm willing to wait.
The default setting is DHCP on both sides with a wireless AP that is either open or with a simple password listed in the manual (which you mentioned that he has). So even if you are completely unable to set it up, you can at least get it working in a base state so you can download the config tool, if you don;t have the CD that came with it. (obviously if your ISP requires special PopE settings then you may be out of luck, but if it supplies you with a modem with an ethernet port, you are sorted).
Those are clearly not "meaningfully cross platform languages".
The language restriction is a little silly in my opinion, and is essentially forcing you to write a native UI and separate app core, but it's not like its an enormous barrier to development for a cross platform app.
There is no fairplay DRM any more, except on legacy songs that were bought before the changeover and were not upgraded (the charge was annoying, but you did get higher bitrate and were offered the difference in price between the old and new). If you don't want to pay you can use iTunes to strip the DRM by burning an audio CD (although clearly you lose out a little with the reencode to a lossy format).
I have a facebook account with 10 friends on it, just to get messages that don't come by phone.
I don't go to parties, I prefer smaller social gatherings with genuine friends. I don't drink - never liked the taste of alcohol. I don't own any branded clothing or shoes. I drive a MPV. A diesel one.
I do own 3 Macs though, and an iPhone. One of those Macs runs Ubuntu.
Sorry, what box were you trying to fit me into again? I'm struggling to fit in - I think the shape is all wrong.
My Macs support IPv6, even the one running Ubuntu which is a bit of a shock because Ubuntu barely supports the graphical look of Windows 95. I would have it all running, but my ISP is IPv4 only. I assume that 6>4 is working, but I haven't needed to mess with it. By default, OS X is set to configure IPv6 automatically as required.
If so, there's no financial loss if all you bought were songs from the iTunes store. Videos are still DRM crippled, but sooner or later that will go too. Content providers don't like change.
No, what they mean is, iTunes will make a local backup of your device (it does so every time you fresh sync it, but will skip if you do several syncs in a row without disconnecting your device). If you plug it in every day, it will make a local backup each day.
However, it's up to you if you then make a further backup of those files - either using Time Machine, or manually with a cron job and an external drive, or however else you choose to do it. Essentially "if you value your backup, you'll keep it in more than one place".
Re:The same can be said for Microsoft's domination
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Why Apple Is So Sticky
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· Score: 1
"Mac wireless routers" - you mean the Airport stations (Extreme and Express) are standard 802.11 WiFi. There's no reason to get one if you already have a wireless router, and even if you do, it will work perfectly with anything that supports WiFi (although the usb printer sharing can be a bit tricky on XP, but does work with some poking).
You don't have to buy firewire accessories for your Mac - they have USB2, and have for many, many years now. You can even keep your old keyboard and mouse if you like (and if they are PS/2, if you are that ancient, you can get a $5 ps/2 to usb adaptor). I use a Microsoft mouse with my iMac. You can also use Apple keyboards and mice on Windows (command maps to the Windows key, control and alt are as normal) if you go back to Windows and don't want to buy a new keyboard and mouse. Also, I'm not sure if you realise, but Windows does support firewire, and has done for a long time. Many Windows laptops have firewire ports on them, even, although if you were switching from Windows in the first place, I imagine you'd just get USB2 devices.
Quicktime is required for iTunes to work on Windows, but Safari is optional. Just click the really obvious checkbox that it forces you to look at before pressing "install". If a non-tech user fails to read this, then he shouldn't be managing his own computer.
Yes, the movies still have DRM (they are working on it), the music does not.
I'm having a hard time seeing what you're really stuck with in replacement terms other than Mac specific software. If you really want to go back to Windows, you can just install boot camp and install it on the Mac you no longer want to use OS X with. Or even dual boot.
So, what hardware do you need to replace if you want to leave Mac? Let's hear some specifics.
For what it's worth on your attempts to call us all "locked in" - my car does not have an Apple stereo, but it does sync with, charge and control my iPod and iPhone, even via my steering wheel controls. It's not a factory HU either.
The point of the OP was that $100 of apps on the App Store is the same "lock in" as $100 of apps on the Android store - since you need an Android phone to be able to use those apps. (or an iPhone for the iPhone apps) and the same is true for a PS3. If you buy PS3 games (regardless of source), you can only use them on a PS3. You can't just pop them into your new XBox 360, even if the same title is available for that platform, you need to rebuy the 360 version.
The tethering fud again. It's AT&T's decision, not Apple's (and yes, AT&T allows tethering on other smartphones on its network - no one said it was a sensible decision). My iPhone tethers just fine out of the box, with no jailbreaking. By default the iPhone tethers.
Also, what "cool, new functions" did the 2009 iPods promise that "every" music player you read about already had? Could have been video on the nano I suppose, but other than that, the core featureset of the iPod line (including the Touch) hasn't changed all that much in a long time.
and Apple wants me to pay for my music and other data over and over again.
How exactly? Music is AAC, unrestricted, no DRM. email is in.mbox format, all their office formats are fully documented XML, their calendar format is ics, their address book format is vcard. They use H.264 video, they support mp3 playback (and encoding).
The only hitch in the system at the moment are movies and TV shows from the store, but like the music industry took time, the content providers are not on board with DRM free. If you don;t bother with movies and TV shows from the store, there is no issue.
So, how do Apple want to make you pay over and over again for your music and data? Do you have specific examples?
Have you ever tried to use the search function in Windows?
Maybe on a Linux box, the search is as powerful as the way it is presented in iTunes, especially with the very rapid live updating (per character updates).
Windows has a long way to go with search. At least they removed the animated dog. What was he called? Power Pup?
Does Windows parse ID3 tags, are the results live updatable as you type? Is it really easy (within seconds) to add filters for OR/AND/NOT?
My personal experience with search on windows has never been a pleasant one. I'm certainly not going to use it to look after a music library when I could just use iTunes for that.
And iTunes does - you can turn off the auto-management and auto-file-copy features of iTunes in 4 clicks (that includes the click to activate the menu - you can skip that click by using a keyboard shortcut).
You are not forced to use iTunes' default method, and it is trivially easy to turn off.
Also, files confuse novie users enormously - which is why they keep everything in the root level of whatever device they are using (or in whatever home folder Windows suggests when they click "file>save")
Practically the only button on the whole thing, other than the home key, is the volume key on the side. You really can't miss it. Or use the on screen control, that moves as you click the side volume buttons.
Syncing your music... drag into iTunes, then plug in the usb cable.
Fast forward, touch the playhead, that moves across the screen as the music plays, with the elapsed time at one end of it, and the remaining time at the other, with the big circle moving between the two.
I'm sorry, but if you couldn't figure that out intuitively, Android is going to fox you to the point of a stroke.
Some of the compounds in the Mid itself are pretty toxic, so it's swings and roundabouts. You don;t want tons of Mud flowing out of the pipe or tons of oil, but those are your choices at the moment.
Slashdot Mirror
Methane is CH4, so by chemist's definition, it is organic.
But that word doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means.
A huge ripoff to who?
It's an expensive device, for sure (and I don't have one), but if it does exactly what its purchaser wants, is that a ripoff?
Like you say, a Dell Mini 10/9 can provide that function for you, but what if I don't want a permanent keyboard? Or I want a tablet-shape?
Right now, the iPad would be excellent purely as a textbook reader - just my organic chemistry book alone is 1600 pages and is a severe PITA to carry around, so for that I would much prefer the form factor of the iPad over a netbook.
Based on your figures the price premium is £164, which is quite a chunk of change but I expect that to come down with revision 2 - I'd hardly call it a "huge ripoff", but I am also not going to claim it is right for everyone.
So, that netbook has a 10" touch screen?
That's where a large part of the price is.
No, because the http server thing is a bit of a hack - an ingenious one, but it exists to solve a problem (configuring a headless device) with a large number of computers. The old method would be to hook it up with a serial cable and configure it that way. The http server is not a bad way of doing it - I mean, it's a good way to ensure many things will be able to connect to your device, it's just unnecessary if the majority of your customers don't need it because their OS already has the ability to configure it without it.
The embedded http server exists so you can configure it without doing that.
As it stands right now, OS X *ships* with the ability to configure the Airport stations out of the box. "By default" you do not need to open your web browser to configure it. You can launch the config by hand any time you like, or OS X can do so if you click "assist me" when setting up your wireless connection. (you also don't need the CD on a Mac, although it ships with the latest version of the Mac utility at the time in case you're using a really old Mac that hasn't been on the net since the late 90s).
Who needs a web interface when you have a tool that does the same thing?
The whole point of the story is "stickiness" - and in this sense, it doesn't apply because Apple *do* provide a config utility if you want to change platforms but don't want to buy a new device. It was designed to work primarily with Macs (but obviously, provide client access to anything that supports WiFi), so it doesn't feature a web config utility.
The reason it has that "intentionally difficult to configure" system is because the software that controls it is built into OS X, so if you want to do it from Windows, you need something equivalent. The other method would be to embed a little http server on the device so you could use a web browser, but for the majority of people who use it, it is just a needless addition to the device (ie, Apple users tend to buy Airport devices, you are unlikely to buy one if you only have a Windows environment).
The "hurdle" only exists because by default, OS X can configure the device out of the box. For Windows, you just have to put the CD in.
Also, Apple completely eliminated expanded polystyrene from its packaging a long time ago.
Why replace the computer? Just install Windows on it - you don;t need to replace it if you are sick of OS X and want to go back to Windows. Apple even includes all the Windows drivers for each Mac on the install discs that come with your Mac.
The router works just fine - I admin an Airport Extreme that exists in a pure Windows environment (I gave it to a friend when his router failed).
Windows *does* support firewire - it seems you are just looking for excuses to create artificial divides between the platforms. Windows has supported firewire for many years, even if the ports are uncommon on desktops. Many PC laptops have them, and the Mac certainly does (which you can install windows on).
The Apple Mighty Mouse and Magic Mouse both work just fine on Windows - no need to replace either one.
I'm looking at specifics - so far you have mentioned that you didn't like iTunes as the sole method of getting music and moves onto your portable music player, that is a fair comment.
So, the rest - "mac servers, even windows servers are more stable" - care to back that up with some evidence? What Mac server were you running, and what was it doing that made it crash so much? Who was looking after it?
Laptops - you have just gone for the usual hand waving of "they're more expensive for the same task" - I assume you're discounting the construction material and the features. Show me the laptops you have compared them to where you get "the same" things from a Windows laptop.
Yes, http://support.apple.com/kb/DL954 - Win XP SP3, Vista, or 7 to manage it, or any Mac.
Alternatively, if he doesn't have one of those OS versions, he can use http://support.apple.com/kb/DL456 which runs on Windows 2000 and Win XP SP2.
If he doesn't have a machine that meets any of those specs, then such is life, he would have to go out and replace the hardware - but even having an Airport Express in the first place (either for a Mac or PC) I assume he would have checked the system requirements - essentially any OS that runs iTunes.
If he threw it in the back of the cupboard, can I have it? If he was defeated by that hurdle, you may have to help him fill in my address and show him how to use the post office, but I'm willing to wait.
The default setting is DHCP on both sides with a wireless AP that is either open or with a simple password listed in the manual (which you mentioned that he has). So even if you are completely unable to set it up, you can at least get it working in a base state so you can download the config tool, if you don;t have the CD that came with it. (obviously if your ISP requires special PopE settings then you may be out of luck, but if it supplies you with a modem with an ethernet port, you are sorted).
Oh I'm not arguing with that - I am looking at an Android phone myself potentially, but it's not down to the UI!
You mean like C and C++?
Those are clearly not "meaningfully cross platform languages".
The language restriction is a little silly in my opinion, and is essentially forcing you to write a native UI and separate app core, but it's not like its an enormous barrier to development for a cross platform app.
There is no fairplay DRM any more, except on legacy songs that were bought before the changeover and were not upgraded (the charge was annoying, but you did get higher bitrate and were offered the difference in price between the old and new). If you don't want to pay you can use iTunes to strip the DRM by burning an audio CD (although clearly you lose out a little with the reencode to a lossy format).
I have a facebook account with 10 friends on it, just to get messages that don't come by phone.
I don't go to parties, I prefer smaller social gatherings with genuine friends. I don't drink - never liked the taste of alcohol. I don't own any branded clothing or shoes. I drive a MPV. A diesel one.
I do own 3 Macs though, and an iPhone. One of those Macs runs Ubuntu.
Sorry, what box were you trying to fit me into again? I'm struggling to fit in - I think the shape is all wrong.
My Macs support IPv6, even the one running Ubuntu which is a bit of a shock because Ubuntu barely supports the graphical look of Windows 95. I would have it all running, but my ISP is IPv4 only. I assume that 6>4 is working, but I haven't needed to mess with it. By default, OS X is set to configure IPv6 automatically as required.
I assume Android plays AAC audio right?
If so, there's no financial loss if all you bought were songs from the iTunes store. Videos are still DRM crippled, but sooner or later that will go too. Content providers don't like change.
No, what they mean is, iTunes will make a local backup of your device (it does so every time you fresh sync it, but will skip if you do several syncs in a row without disconnecting your device). If you plug it in every day, it will make a local backup each day.
However, it's up to you if you then make a further backup of those files - either using Time Machine, or manually with a cron job and an external drive, or however else you choose to do it. Essentially "if you value your backup, you'll keep it in more than one place".
"Mac wireless routers" - you mean the Airport stations (Extreme and Express) are standard 802.11 WiFi. There's no reason to get one if you already have a wireless router, and even if you do, it will work perfectly with anything that supports WiFi (although the usb printer sharing can be a bit tricky on XP, but does work with some poking).
You don't have to buy firewire accessories for your Mac - they have USB2, and have for many, many years now. You can even keep your old keyboard and mouse if you like (and if they are PS/2, if you are that ancient, you can get a $5 ps/2 to usb adaptor). I use a Microsoft mouse with my iMac. You can also use Apple keyboards and mice on Windows (command maps to the Windows key, control and alt are as normal) if you go back to Windows and don't want to buy a new keyboard and mouse.
Also, I'm not sure if you realise, but Windows does support firewire, and has done for a long time. Many Windows laptops have firewire ports on them, even, although if you were switching from Windows in the first place, I imagine you'd just get USB2 devices.
Quicktime is required for iTunes to work on Windows, but Safari is optional. Just click the really obvious checkbox that it forces you to look at before pressing "install". If a non-tech user fails to read this, then he shouldn't be managing his own computer.
Yes, the movies still have DRM (they are working on it), the music does not.
I'm having a hard time seeing what you're really stuck with in replacement terms other than Mac specific software. If you really want to go back to Windows, you can just install boot camp and install it on the Mac you no longer want to use OS X with. Or even dual boot.
So, what hardware do you need to replace if you want to leave Mac? Let's hear some specifics.
Show us those comparisons "where you have compared" - I am genuinely interested.
For what it's worth on your attempts to call us all "locked in" - my car does not have an Apple stereo, but it does sync with, charge and control my iPod and iPhone, even via my steering wheel controls. It's not a factory HU either.
The point of the OP was that $100 of apps on the App Store is the same "lock in" as $100 of apps on the Android store - since you need an Android phone to be able to use those apps. (or an iPhone for the iPhone apps) and the same is true for a PS3. If you buy PS3 games (regardless of source), you can only use them on a PS3. You can't just pop them into your new XBox 360, even if the same title is available for that platform, you need to rebuy the 360 version.
The tethering fud again. It's AT&T's decision, not Apple's (and yes, AT&T allows tethering on other smartphones on its network - no one said it was a sensible decision). My iPhone tethers just fine out of the box, with no jailbreaking. By default the iPhone tethers.
Also, what "cool, new functions" did the 2009 iPods promise that "every" music player you read about already had? Could have been video on the nano I suppose, but other than that, the core featureset of the iPod line (including the Touch) hasn't changed all that much in a long time.
and Apple wants me to pay for my music and other data over and over again.
How exactly? Music is AAC, unrestricted, no DRM. email is in .mbox format, all their office formats are fully documented XML, their calendar format is ics, their address book format is vcard. They use H.264 video, they support mp3 playback (and encoding).
The only hitch in the system at the moment are movies and TV shows from the store, but like the music industry took time, the content providers are not on board with DRM free. If you don;t bother with movies and TV shows from the store, there is no issue.
So, how do Apple want to make you pay over and over again for your music and data? Do you have specific examples?
Have you ever tried to use the search function in Windows?
Maybe on a Linux box, the search is as powerful as the way it is presented in iTunes, especially with the very rapid live updating (per character updates).
Windows has a long way to go with search. At least they removed the animated dog. What was he called? Power Pup?
Does Windows parse ID3 tags, are the results live updatable as you type? Is it really easy (within seconds) to add filters for OR/AND/NOT?
My personal experience with search on windows has never been a pleasant one. I'm certainly not going to use it to look after a music library when I could just use iTunes for that.
And iTunes does - you can turn off the auto-management and auto-file-copy features of iTunes in 4 clicks (that includes the click to activate the menu - you can skip that click by using a keyboard shortcut).
You are not forced to use iTunes' default method, and it is trivially easy to turn off.
Also, files confuse novie users enormously - which is why they keep everything in the root level of whatever device they are using (or in whatever home folder Windows suggests when they click "file>save")
Practically the only button on the whole thing, other than the home key, is the volume key on the side. You really can't miss it. Or use the on screen control, that moves as you click the side volume buttons.
Syncing your music... drag into iTunes, then plug in the usb cable.
Fast forward, touch the playhead, that moves across the screen as the music plays, with the elapsed time at one end of it, and the remaining time at the other, with the big circle moving between the two.
I'm sorry, but if you couldn't figure that out intuitively, Android is going to fox you to the point of a stroke.
I see you're off the meds again.
Nurse? Nurse?!
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Seriously, who is your dealer and can you hook me up?
Some of the compounds in the Mid itself are pretty toxic, so it's swings and roundabouts. You don;t want tons of Mud flowing out of the pipe or tons of oil, but those are your choices at the moment.