I don't know in which world you live, my friend. Apple still dominates the high end tablet market, and will from a long time, but, the market for low-end and mid-end devices (be it cell-phones or tablets) is Android dominated, and as far as mobile phones are concerned Apple manages to tie up in high-end devices with Samsung.
US market is distorted by agreements between Apple and the operators as you pointed before, but that is a localized phenomenon, the World is a lot bigger than that...
Who said I said that Apple dominated the mid to low end? I said that they provided an option - an option you said did not exist - not that they dominated the area. Either way, the sales figures for the 3GS and the 4 demonstrate that they sell better than any other individual Android handset, but obviously not all of them combined (very obviously given the sales of the 4S and the marketshare of iOS at around 49% odd).
In other markets the competition is with other handsets though. In the UK, for example, RIM is still more than just someone put in the "other" category on the pie chart.
Mid to low end devices must be compared taking their price tag into consideration, and sorry no option from Apple beats the best Android devices in this region, even if they are running Gingerbread.
In your opinion - many people beg to differ, as does the sales chart which shows how popular the 3GS (and the 4) are - selling better than any other phone *period* except the 4S and, more recently, the Galaxy S3 - despite being 2 generations behind. The people buying them are doing so because they're coming off crappy low to mid Android handsets (as opposed to the really good Android handsets - I'm not saying Android is crappy), or they're brand new buyers who were waiting for a cheaper entry into the smartphone market.
So, it would seem that "no option" from Android can beat even the 3GS in the low end. If the low end devices could run JB then perhaps it would be different. Well, they *can* run JB, but whether they'll be allowed to is another matter.
Do you have some kind of magic solution for fixing this problem? Google can't make the software open source and then simultaneously prevent the carriers and manufacturers from rolling their own versions with funky skins and locked bootloaders. Nor can Google force the carriers/manufacturers to update the software in a timely manner. Google can try to provide incentives, but they can't force the issue. You can have free and open software or an iron fisted regime where everyone is forced to move in lockstep, but you can't have both at the same time.
It seemed to work for GPLv3. I'm not saying the solutions are simple, but the current system is a bit of a mess and it's a shame. Not everyone who uses Android is savvy enough to understand that the should pick the Nexus, or something else in that category and then get stuck with a phone they can't update.
I have a number of friends who had terrible experiences on Android and they're universally in the "got a handset that was abandoned" category. Without exception all of those friends bought iPhones as soon as possible - one even got so fed up he did it long before his contract was up. These people are not coming back to Android. You may claim that people don't care about updating, and in the sense that they don't have that "ooh, I must have Jelly Bean" mentality, they *do* want their phones to work, especially if there are bugs or they can't run an app that their friends are using.
On the other side I have many friends who are delighted with their Android phone - but they all have things like the Galaxy S2 and S3, and other nice phones like that (sorry, can't be much more specific - they all look like iPhones *ducks* just kidding). The experience on those phones is easily as good as it is on iOS (better for some features) and they can easily update them to load bugfixes etc and use the latest apps. These are the people who will go back to Android when they want a change of handset - unfortunately they're a minority percentage of the user base, and that's a shame.
I used to run a small but profitable business and we thrived on those customers - the ones treated like crap by the big boys because they were deemed too much hassle or inconvenient because their purchasing power was low, or simply didn't need much. When you start to feel like you're a burden on the company you're buying from, such that they give off the impression that they're doing you a favour because you're "hardly worth the effort of putting out an invoice for such small numbers" then you quickly start looking for other options.
I've seen it first hand - thousands and thousands of pounds of lost business, that we happily welcomed onto our books.
Right, in which case all of the comparisons of Android to other mobile operating systems should be made against the version that is 2 back from current. It's meaningless to tout the "great features" of Android (and they are pretty damn good in ICS and JB) if no one is using them and developers aren't looking to target them for another year or more.
Then you talk about a 2 year mean life of the product. I thought it was Apple users who were "locked into" the "upgrade treadmill" - now you're saying that's a positive feature of Android? Bear in mind I still use a 3GS that I picked up ages ago, and it will still be actively supported by Apple at the end of 2012 and beyond.
Well, here nothing but the lowliest cost cellphones are completely free on contact. Sure, you get discounts for locked phones, but the discounts are about the same for a Galaxy Ace or an iphone 3GS (if you are able to find one to sell in the phone operators, which you are usually not).
And sorry, except for special cases, as you exemplified in your post, which are not available in most places of this world, you will still be paying a premium for a service you don't even have anymore, because you will be buying a 3 year old cellphone from Apple and paying a superior amount you would pay for much better, newer devices.
Then... buy the newer, better device? If the 3GS is not a good deal on its face (it actually is, especially with Apple's demonstrated forward support of it with updates to at least iOS6), then get something else. You were complaining about lack of non-premium options from - I gave you two non-premium Apple options, now you seem to just want to trash the 3GS.
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
errr...the one to answer that would be you: "Compare that to iOS..."
Clearly you're the one trying to draw parallels to other platforms, but only when it suits your argument.
In the sense that iOS' user base is pretty much all on the current version, unlike Android. The GP then used that to frame a false comparison argument that because Android was already better than iOS (because, of voice search and nothing else), that there was no problem at all with Android. I was drawing attention to that problematic statement. Just because something is already better than something else (even if that something else is done a certain thing better) does not mean there's no room for improvement in your original thing, regardless of how it compares to the other product generally.
If there are 600,000 apps in the appstore and 1 million phones are shipped with Android daily, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of other software makers would like that kind of "suffering". Have you considered the possibility that you are so steeped in the Apple way of thinking that you just don't understand Android and what makes it so compelling to so many people? Trying to view all of Android through the lense of a completely different system is folly.
That's odd that you think I'm looking at this "from an Apple way of thinking" when my argument is that locked bootloaders are a bad idea, and that Android should mandate that OEMs that use it should provide unlocked bootloaders and a clear and easy upgrade path.
The issue with Verizon would have easily been averted by just withholding the GSM and CDMA updates entirely until they were both ready no one being the wiser. What they did instead was release the GSM code when it was ready and waited until the CDMA stuff was Aldo ready before releasing that. But it gives you something to troll about so I guess it wasn't a complete loss.
You still think I'm trolling? So you think it's totally ok that Android's general OEM model is one where locked bootloaders and abandoned phones is the norm?
What's your stance on Secure Boot on PCs? Do you think that it would be ok to remove the ability to disable it so that only Windows would boot on there? Then sell those machines at a discount, of course.
Whatever, if you choose to see this as purely trolling because I don't share the same opinions as you then go ahead. I'm not sure how else to rephrase it.
Apple 3GS is an old piece of shit that is considerably inferior to any middle ground Android phones in the market, like Galaxy Ace, for example, AND more expensive.
The 3GS is free on contract (well, it's $0.01 on AT&T due to the way they handle billing). I'm not sure how that makes it "more expensive". What Android phones can you get for free that don't have a contract? Unlocked, it is certainly more expensive than an Ace, but the market for that at the non-premium end of the spectrum is pretty limited.
You also seem to be missing the point. You stated that "Unlike Apple... you have the choice [on Android] of not paying the premium price for future upgrades if you think you don't need them". I have pointed out that Apple still sells the 3GS (for free on contract) and the iPhone 4 ($99 on contract) for those who "don't want to pay the premium price", *and* they still get updates to the latest version of iOS into the bargain (although with some features missing, like Siri), thus refuting your point that there's no options for non-premium on Apple - there are two, of varying levels of non-premium.
Yep...I was wondering when the troll^H^H^H^H leopard would show his spots.
I was responding in kind to the "Fucking troll" levelled at me in an otherwise courteous discussion. I don't throw insults around very often at all, but sometimes when it's late and I'm out of tea I might respond a little snappily to being called a "Fucking troll" and respond to said person less than favourably.
Can I assume that was you, since you're continuing down this path? Whoever it was forgot to log in - so brave of them when using such grown up words!
Constructive criticism of the platform and its perceived issues are not attempts to "troll" or "spread meaningless FUD".
Then criticize the platform if that's what you want to do. All you've done so far is criticize the behavior of the various OEM's. You've been told over and over that if you want an Android device that gets guaranteed updates you get a Nexus. Since this article is about Jelly Bean, do you have any specific criticisms of it? Otherwise you are just continuing an off-topic rant.
It's all tied in - the OEMs are the source of the problem. I am sure Jelly Bean is great, just like ICS is great. I've used an ICS-running phone (Galaxy S2) and it was a fantastic device. The OEM problem affects the entire Android ecosystem though - even those savvy enough to buy phones that can be easily upgraded. Most people are not like that, and will not even think about that as a source of potential future problems. "Is this device upgradable?" is not something most users think about. You may say "well, they should!" and yes, they should, but most don't and you're asking for a similar result if you say "well, users should just stop getting viruses!".
The Android ecosystem as a whole suffers when the majority (or a very large number - I'm not sure the proportion of devices that can't upgrade vs the ones that simply don't know they can) of devices are left on old versions of the OS. Normally this is not too big of a problem, but let's take the new API that Google just put into JB. How many developers are going to jump on that? It may not be hugely compelling, but let's say that it is. Let's say it's an amazing new API and feature set that makes Jelly Bean an absolute no brainer. Sure, all the Nexus S people can get it, and those who've rooted their phones, but what about those who simply don't update? Either because they can't or they don't know they can?
If Joe Public is on Froyo and he sees his buddy with a cool new killer app and he wants to use it, can he, if it needs JB? That depends if his phone has an upgrade path. I think it is unacceptable that his phone should be abandoned, if it can run the latest OS. That is the problem I think should be addressed.
It's not off topic, in a discussion about Jelly Bean, to talk about just who it is who will be able to use it, and whether developers will look favourably on the new features if past experience shows them that adopting them will result in an app that is only available to 5% of the user base, assuming a similar adoption rate for JB vs ICS. It's a shame.
The 3GS? Ha ha. That old piece of shit isn't even worthy of discussion with it's pathetic QVGA screen. And don't forget the thousands and thousands of apps in the Apple App Store that will only run on the iPhone 4 and above. Not that that raggedy piece of shit will run all of the new shit like Siri. Speaking of which has been royally stomped by Google Now. Ha ha.
This discussion was about cheaper, non-premium phones. The 3GS "royally stomps" (to use your words) on some of the non-premium Android phones out there that it is currently targeted to compete with, most of which also have a similar screen to the 3GS (since the iPhone lineup is low, medium, premium with the 3GS, 4 and 4S respectively). The 3GS certainly qualifies as a non-premium alternative, especially since it is available for free on various carriers with a contract.
Just because you don't think it's "worthy of discussion" doesn't mean that a) it's not still a viable option in the market (it still has high sales, despite being 2 generations behind), or b) that Apple is not supporting it with the latest version of iOS, which it is - iOS6.
The GPP claimed that there was no alternative to the premium choice with Apple, and there is with Android. The 3GS demonstrates that both Apple and Android have non-premium, affordable options.
I have a Galaxy Nexus that was just updated to ICS 4.04 last month. It took a little while only because Verizon is my carrier. Those who really want the latest OS root their phones. Mine is not rooted but if it was, I could probably get Jelly Bean right now.
And you don't see that as a problem? The issue with Verizon? This is what I mean. I have taken serious vehement, frothing flack from mostly AC posters kneejerking to my perceived "trolling of Android" when pointing out something that is a fact - the low adoption of updates due to deliberate feet dragging or outright abandonment to force new phone sales.
My point isn't to create a dick waving contest over iOS or Windows Phone or any of that, it's to suggest that maybe Google could try to do something about it.
For a site where the very idea of a signed bootloader is causing outrage on the desktop (Secure Boot), slashdot sure is happy to let all that nonsense slide when it comes to Android, as long as there are some phones that are able to update without rooting them, as was pointed out to me earlier. Apparently the low percentage of ICS users is "meaningless FUD" because *his* phone is running ICS, and thus fuck everyone else.
If one of the licence requirements of Android was an unlocked bootloader from the start, and an inbuilt (optional, but on by default) periodic check for updates, perhaps the ecosystem could be streamlined. I don't know. I just feel that right now it's almost silly that so few Android users are on the current, bugfixed, high quality ICS despite the fact that they almost certainly could be and would be having a better experience as a result.
Compare that to iOS' distribution, where a *much* larger percentage are running the most recent version, making it a lot easier for developers. the trade off, of course, is that Apple tightly controls the ecosystem.
"Easier for Developers"? LOL. I have developed apps for Android and I know what's required to develop apps for IOS. First of all, Android apps can be developed on Windows (all versions), linux, and OSX platforms. Apps can even be developed on Android itself. Eclipse + ADT plugin makes it very easy. IOS apps, on the other hand, can only be developed using Xcode running on OSX. Also, its pretty easy to test your Android app while in development using the emulator but most devs prefer to side-load their app onto the device because its faster and just better than using an emulator. Let's try side-loading an IOS app....oh wait, no USB port.
Of course then there's the whole tightly controlled ecosystem you mentioned with Apple...Despite that, vulnerabilities still surface but I bet there are others that Apple stays tight-lipped about and maybe fixes quietly. When Android has a vulnerability, the whole world finds out through the open system of development, arguably making Android appear less secure.
Yeah, you basically described "using a computer" - something I expect that a software developer does not consider to be difficult.
When I say "easier for developers" I'm not talking about having to use Windows, or OS X or some other really trivial thing, I'm talking about being able to simplify your workflow at the actual coal face, especially as it relates to testing and QA.
If you're finding it "difficult" because iOS development is only on OS X, then you might be in the wrong profession.
How many Windows Phones that people are buying right now will be upgradable to Windows Phone 8? How well is Siri working on your iPhone 4? Fucking troll.
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
You touchy fandroids really can't seem to get past defining yourselves by how much you hate everyone else.
If an ecosystem has an issue, then whatever the other guys are doing is irrelevant - you fix your own problem. If "Team A" is better than "Team B" yet there are still areas of improvement that can be made in Team A, do you simply say "no need to improve, we're already better than Team B, so there are no problems!"?
Seriously, not every observation about Android is an "attack". You might understand that some day, kid, after you learn how to log in I assume. Baby steps. The Internet is a big, scary place.
only a fractional proportion of the Android user base using the latest version of the OS, only for that OS to be already depreciated
Deprecated. The word is deprecated. Depreciation is a bookkeeping exercise to recognise the cost of an asset over a period of time. Deprecation is the word used to describe software features being superseded.
Yeah, I realised as soon as I posted it - I had a typo and used the spelling corrector, only to pick the wrong one in the list and I didn't catch it until I'd hit submit.
Wait, you're claiming it's FUD because your one year old phone is better than an iPhone 4 (I'll pick the iPhone 4 since that was the current model a year ago), and specifically claim that the entire problem of low adoption of the latest OS release on Android, and the issue of manufacturers and carriers deliberately blocking and/or delaying updates to phones that can support them in an effort to drive sales of new phones, both of which cause big headaches for developers is "meaningless FUD" because Android users can voice search?
I think you need to lay off the Apple hate and stop framing everything as a competition with Apple. Fuck what Apple are doing, look at how Android is doing. Who cares if you can voice search on Android. Good for you! How does that have any bearing on the problems posed by the fact that a very small number of users are on the latest version of the OS and those who might want to join them either don't know about it or are blocked from getting there?
Constructive criticism of the platform and its perceived issues are not attempts to "troll" or "spread meaningless FUD".
An Android user might be blocked from getting ICS (and now JB) despite his handset being able to support it is hardly going to be placated by you spouting "well at least you can voice search! it's so much better than iPhone! lolz!". I imagine he already thinks that, since *he bought an Android phone in the first place*.
On the "you're either an early adopter or too old to care about" front on iOS, the facts simply do not bear that out. iOS6 is launching soon (likely with whatever the new iPhone will be called), but it's in developer beta now. It will support the 3GS (albeit with some features missing, like Siri) - that's hardly a culture of "early adopter or too old to care". The 3GS was released in June 2009, and they'll be actively supporting it with the latest OS. By the time iOS6 hits consumer handsets that's over 3 years, and the active support of the previous 4 model generations (3GS, 4, 4S and the new one). That's certainly doing "better" than some Android handsets that have been abandoned and can't upgrade (and for balance, doing "worse" than some Android handsets that will be supported for longer).
But you have that choice from Apple too - you don't have to buy the latest phone. Apple sells the 3GS still (free on contract, otherwise $99) and the iPhone 4 and they *still* gets the latest OS, despite not paying the premium price. There will be certain parts of iOS6 that are not supported on the 3GS, but it's not bad for free.
So, like unlike Apple, you get the choice of not paying the premium price for future upgrades if you don;t think you need them, since with Apple you get the non-premium phones with the future upgrades included.
I'm genuinely curious here, do you think I'm trolling, or do you think there's no problem with only a fractional proportion of the Android user base using the latest version of the OS, only for that OS to be already depreciated?
Clearly the "you can buy a Nexus S if you want to update" model isn't really working.
I just bought a Nexus. Neither my Nexus S nor my Galaxy Nexus have had any problems getting updates. I expect the same treatment when my Nexus 7 gets here.
Good for you - you're obviously in that 5 or 6% who have phones that receive updates (or are able to be trivially updated). The vast majority of Android users are not like you, as shown by the stats. Either they simply do not update for whatever reason, or they are unable to. It's a problem that doesn't go away (and in fact, only gets worse) if those at the top of the Android food chain with the really good devices say "I'm ok, so there's no problem". This issue still affects you, since it causes problems in the Android ecosystem as a whole.
This is the first time I've heard of stack ranking (you can tell I haven't worked in a corporate environment) and it strikes me as the most stupid, ineffective, counterproductive load of nonsense I have ever heard.
It is instantly obvious that it's a shit idea when you realise that you are obligated to have a set number of results at each grade level, so it will fail the minute you get a team that doesn't fit that perfect theoretical curve (many more good than bad, or all bad etc).
"Seven of you scored well enough to get the top grade, but I'm only allowed to give out 3 top grades, so I randomly picked those top three or simply chose the best ass kissers"
The four who don't get it are now disgruntled and lose motivation, and perhaps start looking for somewhere that appreciates them.
I can't believe this utterly retarded system got past the "throw us a crazy idea!" stage at a management meeting. Oh, management... of course. All is explained.
So I go and check my "About Tablet" and I see... 4.04! What blather are you spouting?
The "blather" that very few Android users as a whole are using the latest version of the OS, with all the new features that are being promoted (like this new API for example) because handset manufacturers don't want to update old phones that are perfectly capable of running ICS, and now JB, but want you to buy a new phone instead.
The last graph I saw showed that only 6 or 7% of Android handset users were on ICS, and now JB rolls around. Google needs to address that problem somehow, but I'm not really sure what it can do given the nature of the way Android works - that freedom has unfortunate side effects in some cases.
Compare that to iOS' distribution, where a *much* larger percentage are running the most recent version, making it a lot easier for developers. the trade off, of course, is that Apple tightly controls the ecosystem.
Would you rather be bumped by several cars at low speed over and over or hit with a truck moving quickly just once?
Also what sort of radiation is the highly radioactive fluid producing? Alpha? Beta? Gamma? Is the cross section energy density similar to that of the UV coming from the sun? What position on the Earth are we using a reference, here? A sunny beach in the polar regions, or near the equator?
I'll stand 20 or so centimetres away from an intense alpha source all day of the week, but I won't stand out in direct sunlight on a beach for more than about half an hour without coving up due to burning.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't know in which world you live, my friend. Apple still dominates the high end tablet market, and will from a long time, but, the market for low-end and mid-end devices (be it cell-phones or tablets) is Android dominated, and as far as mobile phones are concerned Apple manages to tie up in high-end devices with Samsung.
US market is distorted by agreements between Apple and the operators as you pointed before, but that is a localized phenomenon, the World is a lot bigger than that...
Who said I said that Apple dominated the mid to low end? I said that they provided an option - an option you said did not exist - not that they dominated the area. Either way, the sales figures for the 3GS and the 4 demonstrate that they sell better than any other individual Android handset, but obviously not all of them combined (very obviously given the sales of the 4S and the marketshare of iOS at around 49% odd).
In other markets the competition is with other handsets though. In the UK, for example, RIM is still more than just someone put in the "other" category on the pie chart.
Mid to low end devices must be compared taking their price tag into consideration, and sorry no option from Apple beats the best Android devices in this region, even if they are running Gingerbread.
In your opinion - many people beg to differ, as does the sales chart which shows how popular the 3GS (and the 4) are - selling better than any other phone *period* except the 4S and, more recently, the Galaxy S3 - despite being 2 generations behind. The people buying them are doing so because they're coming off crappy low to mid Android handsets (as opposed to the really good Android handsets - I'm not saying Android is crappy), or they're brand new buyers who were waiting for a cheaper entry into the smartphone market.
So, it would seem that "no option" from Android can beat even the 3GS in the low end. If the low end devices could run JB then perhaps it would be different. Well, they *can* run JB, but whether they'll be allowed to is another matter.
Do you have some kind of magic solution for fixing this problem? Google can't make the software open source and then simultaneously prevent the carriers and manufacturers from rolling their own versions with funky skins and locked bootloaders. Nor can Google force the carriers/manufacturers to update the software in a timely manner. Google can try to provide incentives, but they can't force the issue. You can have free and open software or an iron fisted regime where everyone is forced to move in lockstep, but you can't have both at the same time.
It seemed to work for GPLv3. I'm not saying the solutions are simple, but the current system is a bit of a mess and it's a shame. Not everyone who uses Android is savvy enough to understand that the should pick the Nexus, or something else in that category and then get stuck with a phone they can't update.
I have a number of friends who had terrible experiences on Android and they're universally in the "got a handset that was abandoned" category. Without exception all of those friends bought iPhones as soon as possible - one even got so fed up he did it long before his contract was up. These people are not coming back to Android. You may claim that people don't care about updating, and in the sense that they don't have that "ooh, I must have Jelly Bean" mentality, they *do* want their phones to work, especially if there are bugs or they can't run an app that their friends are using.
On the other side I have many friends who are delighted with their Android phone - but they all have things like the Galaxy S2 and S3, and other nice phones like that (sorry, can't be much more specific - they all look like iPhones *ducks* just kidding). The experience on those phones is easily as good as it is on iOS (better for some features) and they can easily update them to load bugfixes etc and use the latest apps. These are the people who will go back to Android when they want a change of handset - unfortunately they're a minority percentage of the user base, and that's a shame.
I used to run a small but profitable business and we thrived on those customers - the ones treated like crap by the big boys because they were deemed too much hassle or inconvenient because their purchasing power was low, or simply didn't need much. When you start to feel like you're a burden on the company you're buying from, such that they give off the impression that they're doing you a favour because you're "hardly worth the effort of putting out an invoice for such small numbers" then you quickly start looking for other options.
I've seen it first hand - thousands and thousands of pounds of lost business, that we happily welcomed onto our books.
Right, in which case all of the comparisons of Android to other mobile operating systems should be made against the version that is 2 back from current. It's meaningless to tout the "great features" of Android (and they are pretty damn good in ICS and JB) if no one is using them and developers aren't looking to target them for another year or more.
Then you talk about a 2 year mean life of the product. I thought it was Apple users who were "locked into" the "upgrade treadmill" - now you're saying that's a positive feature of Android? Bear in mind I still use a 3GS that I picked up ages ago, and it will still be actively supported by Apple at the end of 2012 and beyond.
Well, here nothing but the lowliest cost cellphones are completely free on contact. Sure, you get discounts for locked phones, but the discounts are about the same for a Galaxy Ace or an iphone 3GS (if you are able to find one to sell in the phone operators, which you are usually not).
And sorry, except for special cases, as you exemplified in your post, which are not available in most places of this world, you will still be paying a premium for a service you don't even have anymore, because you will be buying a 3 year old cellphone from Apple and paying a superior amount you would pay for much better, newer devices.
Then... buy the newer, better device? If the 3GS is not a good deal on its face (it actually is, especially with Apple's demonstrated forward support of it with updates to at least iOS6), then get something else. You were complaining about lack of non-premium options from - I gave you two non-premium Apple options, now you seem to just want to trash the 3GS.
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
errr...the one to answer that would be you:
"Compare that to iOS..."
Clearly you're the one trying to draw parallels to other platforms, but only when it suits your argument.
In the sense that iOS' user base is pretty much all on the current version, unlike Android. The GP then used that to frame a false comparison argument that because Android was already better than iOS (because, of voice search and nothing else), that there was no problem at all with Android. I was drawing attention to that problematic statement. Just because something is already better than something else (even if that something else is done a certain thing better) does not mean there's no room for improvement in your original thing, regardless of how it compares to the other product generally.
The Android ecosystem as a whole suffers
If there are 600,000 apps in the appstore and 1 million phones are shipped with Android daily, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of other software makers would like that kind of "suffering". Have you considered the possibility that you are so steeped in the Apple way of thinking that you just don't understand Android and what makes it so compelling to so many people? Trying to view all of Android through the lense of a completely different system is folly.
That's odd that you think I'm looking at this "from an Apple way of thinking" when my argument is that locked bootloaders are a bad idea, and that Android should mandate that OEMs that use it should provide unlocked bootloaders and a clear and easy upgrade path.
The issue with Verizon would have easily been averted by just withholding the GSM and CDMA updates entirely until they were both ready no one being the wiser. What they did instead was release the GSM code when it was ready and waited until the CDMA stuff was Aldo ready before releasing that. But it gives you something to troll about so I guess it wasn't a complete loss.
You still think I'm trolling? So you think it's totally ok that Android's general OEM model is one where locked bootloaders and abandoned phones is the norm?
What's your stance on Secure Boot on PCs? Do you think that it would be ok to remove the ability to disable it so that only Windows would boot on there? Then sell those machines at a discount, of course.
Whatever, if you choose to see this as purely trolling because I don't share the same opinions as you then go ahead. I'm not sure how else to rephrase it.
Apple 3GS is an old piece of shit that is considerably inferior to any middle ground Android phones in the market, like Galaxy Ace, for example, AND more expensive.
The 3GS is free on contract (well, it's $0.01 on AT&T due to the way they handle billing). I'm not sure how that makes it "more expensive". What Android phones can you get for free that don't have a contract? Unlocked, it is certainly more expensive than an Ace, but the market for that at the non-premium end of the spectrum is pretty limited.
You also seem to be missing the point. You stated that "Unlike Apple ... you have the choice [on Android] of not paying the premium price for future upgrades if you think you don't need them". I have pointed out that Apple still sells the 3GS (for free on contract) and the iPhone 4 ($99 on contract) for those who "don't want to pay the premium price", *and* they still get updates to the latest version of iOS into the bargain (although with some features missing, like Siri), thus refuting your point that there's no options for non-premium on Apple - there are two, of varying levels of non-premium.
fandroids
Yep...I was wondering when the troll^H^H^H^H leopard would show his spots.
I was responding in kind to the "Fucking troll" levelled at me in an otherwise courteous discussion. I don't throw insults around very often at all, but sometimes when it's late and I'm out of tea I might respond a little snappily to being called a "Fucking troll" and respond to said person less than favourably.
Can I assume that was you, since you're continuing down this path? Whoever it was forgot to log in - so brave of them when using such grown up words!
Constructive criticism of the platform and its perceived issues are not attempts to "troll" or "spread meaningless FUD".
Then criticize the platform if that's what you want to do. All you've done so far is criticize the behavior of the various OEM's. You've been told over and over that if you want an Android device that gets guaranteed updates you get a Nexus. Since this article is about Jelly Bean, do you have any specific criticisms of it? Otherwise you are just continuing an off-topic rant.
It's all tied in - the OEMs are the source of the problem. I am sure Jelly Bean is great, just like ICS is great. I've used an ICS-running phone (Galaxy S2) and it was a fantastic device. The OEM problem affects the entire Android ecosystem though - even those savvy enough to buy phones that can be easily upgraded. Most people are not like that, and will not even think about that as a source of potential future problems. "Is this device upgradable?" is not something most users think about. You may say "well, they should!" and yes, they should, but most don't and you're asking for a similar result if you say "well, users should just stop getting viruses!".
The Android ecosystem as a whole suffers when the majority (or a very large number - I'm not sure the proportion of devices that can't upgrade vs the ones that simply don't know they can) of devices are left on old versions of the OS. Normally this is not too big of a problem, but let's take the new API that Google just put into JB. How many developers are going to jump on that? It may not be hugely compelling, but let's say that it is. Let's say it's an amazing new API and feature set that makes Jelly Bean an absolute no brainer. Sure, all the Nexus S people can get it, and those who've rooted their phones, but what about those who simply don't update? Either because they can't or they don't know they can?
If Joe Public is on Froyo and he sees his buddy with a cool new killer app and he wants to use it, can he, if it needs JB? That depends if his phone has an upgrade path. I think it is unacceptable that his phone should be abandoned, if it can run the latest OS. That is the problem I think should be addressed.
It's not off topic, in a discussion about Jelly Bean, to talk about just who it is who will be able to use it, and whether developers will look favourably on the new features if past experience shows them that adopting them will result in an app that is only available to 5% of the user base, assuming a similar adoption rate for JB vs ICS. It's a shame.
The 3GS? Ha ha. That old piece of shit isn't even worthy of discussion with it's pathetic QVGA screen. And don't forget the thousands and thousands of apps in the Apple App Store that will only run on the iPhone 4 and above. Not that that raggedy piece of shit will run all of the new shit like Siri. Speaking of which has been royally stomped by Google Now. Ha ha.
This discussion was about cheaper, non-premium phones. The 3GS "royally stomps" (to use your words) on some of the non-premium Android phones out there that it is currently targeted to compete with, most of which also have a similar screen to the 3GS (since the iPhone lineup is low, medium, premium with the 3GS, 4 and 4S respectively). The 3GS certainly qualifies as a non-premium alternative, especially since it is available for free on various carriers with a contract.
Just because you don't think it's "worthy of discussion" doesn't mean that a) it's not still a viable option in the market (it still has high sales, despite being 2 generations behind), or b) that Apple is not supporting it with the latest version of iOS, which it is - iOS6.
The GPP claimed that there was no alternative to the premium choice with Apple, and there is with Android. The 3GS demonstrates that both Apple and Android have non-premium, affordable options.
I have a Galaxy Nexus that was just updated to ICS 4.04 last month. It took a little while only because Verizon is my carrier. Those who really want the latest OS root their phones. Mine is not rooted but if it was, I could probably get Jelly Bean right now.
And you don't see that as a problem? The issue with Verizon? This is what I mean. I have taken serious vehement, frothing flack from mostly AC posters kneejerking to my perceived "trolling of Android" when pointing out something that is a fact - the low adoption of updates due to deliberate feet dragging or outright abandonment to force new phone sales.
My point isn't to create a dick waving contest over iOS or Windows Phone or any of that, it's to suggest that maybe Google could try to do something about it.
For a site where the very idea of a signed bootloader is causing outrage on the desktop (Secure Boot), slashdot sure is happy to let all that nonsense slide when it comes to Android, as long as there are some phones that are able to update without rooting them, as was pointed out to me earlier. Apparently the low percentage of ICS users is "meaningless FUD" because *his* phone is running ICS, and thus fuck everyone else.
If one of the licence requirements of Android was an unlocked bootloader from the start, and an inbuilt (optional, but on by default) periodic check for updates, perhaps the ecosystem could be streamlined. I don't know. I just feel that right now it's almost silly that so few Android users are on the current, bugfixed, high quality ICS despite the fact that they almost certainly could be and would be having a better experience as a result.
Compare that to iOS' distribution, where a *much* larger percentage are running the most recent version, making it a lot easier for developers. the trade off, of course, is that Apple tightly controls the ecosystem.
"Easier for Developers"?
LOL. I have developed apps for Android and I know what's required to develop apps for IOS. First of all, Android apps can be developed on Windows (all versions), linux, and OSX platforms. Apps can even be developed on Android itself. Eclipse + ADT plugin makes it very easy. IOS apps, on the other hand, can only be developed using Xcode running on OSX. Also, its pretty easy to test your Android app while in development using the emulator but most devs prefer to side-load their app onto the device because its faster and just better than using an emulator. Let's try side-loading an IOS app....oh wait, no USB port.
Of course then there's the whole tightly controlled ecosystem you mentioned with Apple...Despite that, vulnerabilities still surface but I bet there are others that Apple stays tight-lipped about and maybe fixes quietly. When Android has a vulnerability, the whole world finds out through the open system of development, arguably making Android appear less secure.
Yeah, you basically described "using a computer" - something I expect that a software developer does not consider to be difficult.
When I say "easier for developers" I'm not talking about having to use Windows, or OS X or some other really trivial thing, I'm talking about being able to simplify your workflow at the actual coal face, especially as it relates to testing and QA.
If you're finding it "difficult" because iOS development is only on OS X, then you might be in the wrong profession.
How many Windows Phones that people are buying right now will be upgradable to Windows Phone 8? How well is Siri working on your iPhone 4? Fucking troll.
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
You touchy fandroids really can't seem to get past defining yourselves by how much you hate everyone else.
If an ecosystem has an issue, then whatever the other guys are doing is irrelevant - you fix your own problem. If "Team A" is better than "Team B" yet there are still areas of improvement that can be made in Team A, do you simply say "no need to improve, we're already better than Team B, so there are no problems!"?
Seriously, not every observation about Android is an "attack". You might understand that some day, kid, after you learn how to log in I assume. Baby steps. The Internet is a big, scary place.
only a fractional proportion of the Android user base using the latest version of the OS, only for that OS to be already depreciated
Deprecated. The word is deprecated. Depreciation is a bookkeeping exercise to recognise the cost of an asset over a period of time. Deprecation is the word used to describe software features being superseded.
Yeah, I realised as soon as I posted it - I had a typo and used the spelling corrector, only to pick the wrong one in the list and I didn't catch it until I'd hit submit.
Je suis desolé.
Wait, you're claiming it's FUD because your one year old phone is better than an iPhone 4 (I'll pick the iPhone 4 since that was the current model a year ago), and specifically claim that the entire problem of low adoption of the latest OS release on Android, and the issue of manufacturers and carriers deliberately blocking and/or delaying updates to phones that can support them in an effort to drive sales of new phones, both of which cause big headaches for developers is "meaningless FUD" because Android users can voice search?
I think you need to lay off the Apple hate and stop framing everything as a competition with Apple. Fuck what Apple are doing, look at how Android is doing. Who cares if you can voice search on Android. Good for you! How does that have any bearing on the problems posed by the fact that a very small number of users are on the latest version of the OS and those who might want to join them either don't know about it or are blocked from getting there?
Constructive criticism of the platform and its perceived issues are not attempts to "troll" or "spread meaningless FUD".
An Android user might be blocked from getting ICS (and now JB) despite his handset being able to support it is hardly going to be placated by you spouting "well at least you can voice search! it's so much better than iPhone! lolz!". I imagine he already thinks that, since *he bought an Android phone in the first place*.
On the "you're either an early adopter or too old to care about" front on iOS, the facts simply do not bear that out. iOS6 is launching soon (likely with whatever the new iPhone will be called), but it's in developer beta now. It will support the 3GS (albeit with some features missing, like Siri) - that's hardly a culture of "early adopter or too old to care". The 3GS was released in June 2009, and they'll be actively supporting it with the latest OS. By the time iOS6 hits consumer handsets that's over 3 years, and the active support of the previous 4 model generations (3GS, 4, 4S and the new one). That's certainly doing "better" than some Android handsets that have been abandoned and can't upgrade (and for balance, doing "worse" than some Android handsets that will be supported for longer).
But you have that choice from Apple too - you don't have to buy the latest phone. Apple sells the 3GS still (free on contract, otherwise $99) and the iPhone 4 and they *still* gets the latest OS, despite not paying the premium price. There will be certain parts of iOS6 that are not supported on the 3GS, but it's not bad for free.
So, like unlike Apple, you get the choice of not paying the premium price for future upgrades if you don;t think you need them, since with Apple you get the non-premium phones with the future upgrades included.
It gives trolls a convenient talking point too ;-)
I'm genuinely curious here, do you think I'm trolling, or do you think there's no problem with only a fractional proportion of the Android user base using the latest version of the OS, only for that OS to be already depreciated?
Clearly the "you can buy a Nexus S if you want to update" model isn't really working.
I just bought a Nexus. Neither my Nexus S nor my Galaxy Nexus have had any problems getting updates. I expect the same treatment when my Nexus 7 gets here.
Good for you - you're obviously in that 5 or 6% who have phones that receive updates (or are able to be trivially updated). The vast majority of Android users are not like you, as shown by the stats. Either they simply do not update for whatever reason, or they are unable to. It's a problem that doesn't go away (and in fact, only gets worse) if those at the top of the Android food chain with the really good devices say "I'm ok, so there's no problem". This issue still affects you, since it causes problems in the Android ecosystem as a whole.
This is the first time I've heard of stack ranking (you can tell I haven't worked in a corporate environment) and it strikes me as the most stupid, ineffective, counterproductive load of nonsense I have ever heard.
It is instantly obvious that it's a shit idea when you realise that you are obligated to have a set number of results at each grade level, so it will fail the minute you get a team that doesn't fit that perfect theoretical curve (many more good than bad, or all bad etc).
"Seven of you scored well enough to get the top grade, but I'm only allowed to give out 3 top grades, so I randomly picked those top three or simply chose the best ass kissers"
The four who don't get it are now disgruntled and lose motivation, and perhaps start looking for somewhere that appreciates them.
I can't believe this utterly retarded system got past the "throw us a crazy idea!" stage at a management meeting. Oh, management... of course. All is explained.
So I go and check my "About Tablet" and I see... 4.04! What blather are you spouting?
The "blather" that very few Android users as a whole are using the latest version of the OS, with all the new features that are being promoted (like this new API for example) because handset manufacturers don't want to update old phones that are perfectly capable of running ICS, and now JB, but want you to buy a new phone instead.
The last graph I saw showed that only 6 or 7% of Android handset users were on ICS, and now JB rolls around. Google needs to address that problem somehow, but I'm not really sure what it can do given the nature of the way Android works - that freedom has unfortunate side effects in some cases.
Compare that to iOS' distribution, where a *much* larger percentage are running the most recent version, making it a lot easier for developers. the trade off, of course, is that Apple tightly controls the ecosystem.
Powerlines don't emit RF, you dipshit
I can see why you didn't log in!
Ah, they say never laugh at the mentally retarded, but sometimes you can't help it.
Would you rather be bumped by several cars at low speed over and over or hit with a truck moving quickly just once?
Also what sort of radiation is the highly radioactive fluid producing? Alpha? Beta? Gamma? Is the cross section energy density similar to that of the UV coming from the sun? What position on the Earth are we using a reference, here? A sunny beach in the polar regions, or near the equator?
I'll stand 20 or so centimetres away from an intense alpha source all day of the week, but I won't stand out in direct sunlight on a beach for more than about half an hour without coving up due to burning.