I originally submitted this as a storyline to \. but it got reject ( oh well ). But a friend found this ( http://www.nurve.net/ngear ). This is a gaming system being developed by Andre' LeMothe ( author of various books on Game development ). The short description is:
50Mips CPU ( & a 100 Mips DSP )
16Mb of Flash Memory
Can store up to 12 games internally.
Color LCD screen
USB 2.0
Infrared
C++ development libararies
$500 ( development system )
Certainly a lot lower point of entry cost than GBA or any other of the consoles out there...
You're right, with the older Palm OS, applications were and still are, much smaller than a WCE "counter part". This is different with OS5, as this is now based on the ARM architecture and application size is a bit bigger ( although definitely not as overbloated as WCE apps are ). But regardless of application size, people just want to keep more STUFF with them. This shouldn't be that hard to understand for Palm.
>To answer the problems above, have you ever >tried to fit a 320/320 screen into a pocket >you'd usually put a mobile phone in? The screen >is bigger and looks clearer than my current >128/128 colour phone screen.
1 )The reason it looks "cleaner" could be due to the LCD tech they're using and not necessarily the resolution. 2) I've used Clie's that ran at 320*320 and it wasn't bulky in my pocket at all. As for a smartphone with that resolution, by virtue of how much more stuff there is in a smart phone, inside your pocket would be a pretty dumb place to try to keep it because of limited space. Not too many people that I know who have smartphones ( and I know quite a few ), keep them INSIDE their pockets. Current Treo models included. If their intent was to make one where you COULD stick it in your pocket, I could see that being useful, nevertheless, if Samsung's able to do it ( higher res screen in a compact design ), no reason why Handspring shouldn't be able to.
>If you ever use a palm you'll quickly find that >unless you're trying to put videos or mp3s in >the memory, then even 8mb is enough I've not >managed to fill my m500s 8mb yet even with a >full suite of office apps and games.
1) I've owned palms since the Palm Pilot Pro ( 512 K...still have it, in fact, it still runs ). If you're referring to older palm apps, then yes, they sure do take up a lot less space. But Apps written to ARM occupy a fair bit more space. The fact is that this "Oh, you don't need that much memory to start with" mentality has got to go. I don't care that applications are that much smaller. Sometime or another Palm has to get it through it's head, that to not just grow market share, but to KEEP it, they're going to have to expand their usable memory capacity. Don't talk to me about you being able to do b&w video on an m500 ( nevermind you that the quality was HORRIBLE ), talk to me about being able to send a color video message from your phone to the home office ( now if only cell carriers would charge something reasonable for larger data rates ). It's the old adage, built it and they will come.
Do you think people actually BELIEVED Bill Gates when he said 640K would probably be enough memory for whatever PC computing you wanted ? Yeah, right.
As for the processor, yes, yes Palm does need to be able to compete, because PocketPC's can support larger memory configurations ( and even they've been holding back increasing their memory sizes until recently ), they remain open to performing larger enterprise-like connectivity ( which has always been Palm's Achilles heel ). And let's not even get started on comparing what some PocketPC games look like versus Palm ( I'm not ashamed to admit I've envied some of the games available for the PPC...I've just waited patiently ).
Now about the keyboard. It's not so much that we may have Homer Simpson fingers ( which I don't ), as much as having seen similar keyboards ( hey, look at the Tungsten C ), and that the feel for them really isn't quite "THERE" yet.
Actually, the "difficulty" is because of the original system architecture and the desire to maintain some semblance of "back(ass)wards" compatibility.
As for memory for these units, once I saw an article from Hong Kong ( I think ) where a guy took apart his M100 and substituted the DRAM chip for a higher density part...Poof...he went from 2Mb to 8Mb instantly. From what I've seen of other subsequent models ( m505/m515 ), they seem to consistently use low-power DRAM chips. IT would really surprise me if hardware cost-wise, it REALLY broke their bank to use a 64Mb part versus a 32Mb part.
You're right, if you're not optimized for the XScale, then you're going to get doggy-poop performance ( The Toshiba e740 was evidence enough of that ). You'd have to wonder if Palm has optimized the OS in the Tungsten C ( runs with a 400Mhz XScale ). Then you'd have to consider if A) Samsung is using their own un-optimized OS5 with their XScale, or B) They have licensed a XScale-optimized version of OS5.
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
The subject of the processor not-withstanding, I still think that the other two design choices this unit are definitely in Achilles heel territory. The smartphone market isn't like when they introduced the first Treo ( as pointed out by the Reuters article ). It's going to be rather hard to compete with things like the Sony Ericsson P800 and a few others.
Display: 160x160 is not only "old school", it's will eventually disappear, as more and more palm apps are writting to the 320x320 that's the standard for newer units.
Memory: 32Mb. Why manufacturers are still shipping these tiny amounts of memory ( and then taking even some of that away for "scratch space" or "auxiliary application space" in some cases ), is beyond me. The prices of RAM have dropped incredibly, and why on a unit that's listing for $500, 32Mb sounds kinda chincy.
Processor: Since the article didn't specify WHICH TI ARM processor, I'll make this tentative statement. Shipping a next-gen system with the OMAP processor at 144Mhz is ridiculous. The Samsung will come with a 300Mhz XScale.
About the one thing that sets it apart feature-wise, is the built-in keyboard. Then again, the keys are so small, that they look like chiclet keys.
I sure hope that if Palm is going to get into the SmartPhone business directly ( or indirectly through HandSpring ), that they SERIOUSLY look to compete.
Get real.....and of course those "valued employees" will be saying at your wake..."what an A$$ wipe he was". Get off the soap box you're standing on before you trip, fall, and whatever's making your eyes brown smells up the rest of the place...
I was going to FlameBait moderate your ass, but then I realized this clown doesn't have a wife, kids who have Doctor's bills, or need clothes for school. Wait until you have others that RELY on you, and your perspective of "Do I, or Don't I ?" will change. And no, don't try deluding yourself into thinking it won't change. It will.
You are EXACTLY the reason I am consulting. So whenever I encounter a client with the silly-minded notion that just because someone can pronounce PHP and can download code from a website and they can pay $12/hr for a programmer ; that I just hand them my card and say, "When you can't figure out what the guy you hire for this was doing, after you've fired him, call me. Oh, and remember what "I" was quoting you for my hourly rate ? It's double, when I'm doing "Janitorial Work".
The man who writes the checks can call the shots... as long as he gets where the decimal point goes right.
And, of course, people being so naive to think that there's no "automatic" language included within Windows.....Yutzes.
If you're running any newer version of Windows, you can always download, install and use the Windows Scripting host. It's much like VB, in that you can create windows, buttons, loops, if-then-else, etc. Sure, it doesn't have a nice IDE, but then again...I don't remember any of us having an ide beyond the character ']' on Apple ]['s !
Then again, has anyone seen the cost of student oriented development software these days...it's insanely cheap. So there's VB for them to learn ( if you MUST teach them something ).
And who was the yutz who said to teach them Perl ? Are you kidding me ? Get real.
Hell, if you have to teach them a HLL, then teach them something structured first, like Pascal. Teaching Free form languages to a kid as their first language ( IMO ) will only lead to poor coding behaviors.
Or jeez, use JavaScript for crimoney sakes. It's built into practically every browser, and they can see their results in a window almost immediately.
Linux by Choice, Windows by necessity ( gotta pay the bills ).
It'll be deprecated. Consider that in the move to Win32 ( O those 11 years ago !! Has it been that long ? ) there were many API's that were lost along the way, and then there were those who were "left for compatibility" purposes.
My guess is that the API will still be there, but that it will remain for "Unmanaged code" to utilize. After all, over 99.9% of applications today are "unmanaged", and it took a few years for all that 16-bit code to be "unthunked" ( remember that phrase ? ) into running strictly 32-bit, so I suppose it'll take a few years for most "unmanaged" code to be ported a managed environment (if it is AT ALL!). And it is for those, that the API will remain as it is today.
What I suspect is that despite only 8000 "managed" API's will exist, the actual functionality will migrate from being an API function to a glut of scripting instructions.
It's like my Dad always said...if it goes in...it's gotta come out sometime...and SOMEWHERE.
Are you like, high on cattle fodder or something ? Windows Forms is SPECIFICALLY platform DEPENDENT, it sits atop Win32 ( albeit quite poorly...every try to easily change font attributes without having to destroy and re-create objects galore ? ).
It's a part of.NET that will NEVER get sent to a standards organization. Probably because the clamoring of OPENING UP the API would be more than they would care to deal with.
Tired of AC's posting flamers...lots of journalists have skewed views.....The guy who did the analysis of the EULA/GPL sounds like he knew what he was doing when he did his investigation, and that's what really matters.
If you've got a beef with the journalist, so be it. The research, however, confirms to me, the impressions I've felt for a while. The MS EULA should really be called MSCYA ( or maybe MSCBA ).
Uh-huh....just like Japan thought about bombing hospitals and civilian homes on Hawaii. What? You think the only places that Japanese warplanes bombed were on base in Pearl Harbor ?
Being the NULL pointer you are, you should get your addresses right before you dereferences yourself.
All Software Engineers are programmers,
but not all programmers are Software Engineers.
Sorry, but "professional accreditation" is why I went to a "college of engineering" and studied Computer Science. I took classes in things some "code monkeys" don't even think are important today ( Yeah, I'd like to see some of you VB or script-kiddies do microcode design ).
I've also seen Electrical Engineers who thought that because they had "Engineer" in their title and they knew how to slap together a program that that "entitled" them to add "Software Engineer" to their titles.....yeah, right.
As always, non-technical people, and perhaps some narrow-minded technical folks like to assign a yes or no answer to an "it depends" question.
Folks....get a grip.
but no...they can tell, though they'll say they cannot. Have you ever used an ICE machine ( and no, I'm not talking about a CPU cooler either ) ? If a CPU is dead, and cannot boot, there are diagnostic tests that can still be performed ( unless there's a black spot on the CPU die ).
Lying customers overclocking their CPU's are such a miniscule percentage of their total CPU output it's ridiculous to think that they'd invest the $$ involved in salaries and legal fees to stop. Why "the hell" do I think they're looking into it ?
I already answered that question...CPU prices...as in, keeping them artificially high.
Still sipping that ginseng are ya ? Well, I didn't have coffee today, so don't write this off on being hyper.
A) No, I've been around the industry long enough to know that people have their points, but usually stop looking at the bigger picture and get stuck in their little microcosm ( which apparently you've done ).
B) It's not a matter of caring if I'm wrong ( which I'm not ). I don't DISAGREE with some of the statements that've been made, but rather that the people making them neglect to look at the bigger picture.
C) I'm not overblown, there are just that many people who don't think through their arguments.
Get yourself a screen name instead of a veil. Oh, and before you call someone insane, how about you take a look in the mirror in the morning, before you've put on your makeup.
While I agree with you there. There are always FRINGE lunatics in every "society".
Whomever told you that Intel has no way of telling if a CPU was tampered with is feeding you bull-hockey. They have ALWAYS had ways of telling. As far back as 80286's. There are specific gates in each processor which will give certain resistances when current is applied the several pins on the CPU. I don't see how this generated any bad publicity for Intel ( by all means, post the links to the articles relating said negative publicity. ).
That there are ass-clowns in the overclocking community that have NO business ( You know who you are ! Don't hide. ) getting near a CPU, I'll grant you that. Just as there are some people who have no business getting behind the wheel of a car, but there they are.....right in front of you on your commute to work.
Hint Einstein: So you say no...so they say, send in the processor...so they look at the processor and check certain resistances when current is applied, if it goes beyond a certain range...Ooops...this CPU was twiddled with...
They HAVE a means to verify that CPU's were tampered with.....and if so....guess what'll happen ? There's that extra charge on your Mastercard....and just TRY to argue the point with the credit card company when Intel says "Attempted Fraud". Whoomp.
Just as with other ass-clowns who have no point...now that you've said what you were going to say, sit down, shut up, and let everyone have their say. Look at the posts. You're in the minority. It's called commentary.
And for the record...if I paid for a CPU, it's mine, not theirs, I can cook it, fry it, ice it, do whatever I want to with it. If I know that it will void my right to any claims against them, then they should shut up and not bitch that I'm "hurting their poor baby cpu".
Geez ! Most overclockers probably take better care of their CPU's ( Water Coolers, Peltier rigs, AIR CONDITIONING COILS ), than your average Joe SixPack that has their box sitting. They spend more money in PROTECTING their investment.
So don't go off farting that overclocking is going to hurt their intellectual property. At least come up with a VALID argument, before you pronounce something obviously as inane and flagrantly Anti-Consumer as this patent.
Yet again, some ignorance about the market at large being spewed. Do you think this patent was pursued because of some "local" marketer. Get real.
The "reason" for this being pursued was because, en masse, some taiwanese and singapore distribution houses were buying bulk, shaving off the silk screening, re-masking the parts, and then selling the parts by the crate.
The fact that THEY allowed this behavior to occur because of their own distribution practices contributed to it happening. So I don't think their reputation was really as marred as people here keep saying.
Hey, do you think if they really lost THAT much money, that they'd be able to put on some of the advertising that they do on TV ? When was the last time you say an AMD Commercial on during the SuperBowl...do the math.
The article didn't provide the patent #. And made it sound as though this was a new filing. See ? Marketing spin yet again.
And for that matter, 1999 ? That was 4 years ago, which may have been the cusp of when it was occurring, but I think the newer generations of CPU's, and changed in the market itself, have brushed much of that necessity for this "technical achievement".
Slashdot Mirror
50Mips CPU ( & a 100 Mips DSP ) 16Mb of Flash Memory Can store up to 12 games internally. Color LCD screen USB 2.0 Infrared C++ development libararies $500 ( development system )
Certainly a lot lower point of entry cost than GBA or any other of the consoles out there...
You're right, with the older Palm OS, applications were and still are, much smaller than a WCE "counter part". This is different with OS5, as this is now based on the ARM architecture and application size is a bit bigger ( although definitely not as overbloated as WCE apps are ). But regardless of application size, people just want to keep more STUFF with them. This shouldn't be that hard to understand for Palm.
>If you ever use a palm you'll quickly find that >unless you're trying to put videos or mp3s in >the memory, then even 8mb is enough I've not >managed to fill my m500s 8mb yet even with a >full suite of office apps and games.
1) I've owned palms since the Palm Pilot Pro ( 512 K...still have it, in fact, it still runs ). If you're referring to older palm apps, then yes, they sure do take up a lot less space. But Apps written to ARM occupy a fair bit more space. The fact is that this "Oh, you don't need that much memory to start with" mentality has got to go. I don't care that applications are that much smaller. Sometime or another Palm has to get it through it's head, that to not just grow market share, but to KEEP it, they're going to have to expand their usable memory capacity. Don't talk to me about you being able to do b&w video on an m500 ( nevermind you that the quality was HORRIBLE ), talk to me about being able to send a color video message from your phone to the home office ( now if only cell carriers would charge something reasonable for larger data rates ). It's the old adage, built it and they will come. Do you think people actually BELIEVED Bill Gates when he said 640K would probably be enough memory for whatever PC computing you wanted ? Yeah, right.
As for the processor, yes, yes Palm does need to be able to compete, because PocketPC's can support larger memory configurations ( and even they've been holding back increasing their memory sizes until recently ), they remain open to performing larger enterprise-like connectivity ( which has always been Palm's Achilles heel ). And let's not even get started on comparing what some PocketPC games look like versus Palm ( I'm not ashamed to admit I've envied some of the games available for the PPC...I've just waited patiently ).
Now about the keyboard. It's not so much that we may have Homer Simpson fingers ( which I don't ), as much as having seen similar keyboards ( hey, look at the Tungsten C ), and that the feel for them really isn't quite "THERE" yet.
As for memory for these units, once I saw an article from Hong Kong ( I think ) where a guy took apart his M100 and substituted the DRAM chip for a higher density part...Poof...he went from 2Mb to 8Mb instantly. From what I've seen of other subsequent models ( m505/m515 ), they seem to consistently use low-power DRAM chips. IT would really surprise me if hardware cost-wise, it REALLY broke their bank to use a 64Mb part versus a 32Mb part.
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
The subject of the processor not-withstanding, I still think that the other two design choices this unit are definitely in Achilles heel territory. The smartphone market isn't like when they introduced the first Treo ( as pointed out by the Reuters article ). It's going to be rather hard to compete with things like the Sony Ericsson P800 and a few others.
The caveats:
Display: 160x160 is not only "old school", it's will eventually disappear, as more and more palm apps are writting to the 320x320 that's the standard for newer units.
Memory: 32Mb. Why manufacturers are still shipping these tiny amounts of memory ( and then taking even some of that away for "scratch space" or "auxiliary application space" in some cases ), is beyond me. The prices of RAM have dropped incredibly, and why on a unit that's listing for $500, 32Mb sounds kinda chincy.
Processor: Since the article didn't specify WHICH TI ARM processor, I'll make this tentative statement. Shipping a next-gen system with the OMAP processor at 144Mhz is ridiculous. The Samsung will come with a 300Mhz XScale.
About the one thing that sets it apart feature-wise, is the built-in keyboard. Then again, the keys are so small, that they look like chiclet keys.
I sure hope that if Palm is going to get into the SmartPhone business directly ( or indirectly through HandSpring ), that they SERIOUSLY look to compete.
Get real.....and of course those "valued employees" will be saying at your wake..."what an A$$ wipe he was". Get off the soap box you're standing on before you trip, fall, and whatever's making your eyes brown smells up the rest of the place...
You are EXACTLY the reason I am consulting. So whenever I encounter a client with the silly-minded notion that just because someone can pronounce PHP and can download code from a website and they can pay $12/hr for a programmer ; that I just hand them my card and say, "When you can't figure out what the guy you hire for this was doing, after you've fired him, call me. Oh, and remember what "I" was quoting you for my hourly rate ? It's double, when I'm doing "Janitorial Work".
The man who writes the checks can call the shots... as long as he gets where the decimal point goes right.
If you're running any newer version of Windows, you can always download, install and use the Windows Scripting host. It's much like VB, in that you can create windows, buttons, loops, if-then-else, etc. Sure, it doesn't have a nice IDE, but then again...I don't remember any of us having an ide beyond the character ']' on Apple ]['s !
Then again, has anyone seen the cost of student oriented development software these days...it's insanely cheap. So there's VB for them to learn ( if you MUST teach them something ).
And who was the yutz who said to teach them Perl ? Are you kidding me ? Get real.
Hell, if you have to teach them a HLL, then teach them something structured first, like Pascal. Teaching Free form languages to a kid as their first language ( IMO ) will only lead to poor coding behaviors.
Or jeez, use JavaScript for crimoney sakes. It's built into practically every browser, and they can see their results in a window almost immediately.
Linux by Choice, Windows by necessity ( gotta pay the bills ).
Dude...what kind of Evil Master Plan Droid are you ? Do you realize that someone is actually going to believe you when you say that ?
My guess is that the API will still be there, but that it will remain for "Unmanaged code" to utilize. After all, over 99.9% of applications today are "unmanaged", and it took a few years for all that 16-bit code to be "unthunked" ( remember that phrase ? ) into running strictly 32-bit, so I suppose it'll take a few years for most "unmanaged" code to be ported a managed environment (if it is AT ALL!). And it is for those, that the API will remain as it is today.
What I suspect is that despite only 8000 "managed" API's will exist, the actual functionality will migrate from being an API function to a glut of scripting instructions.
It's like my Dad always said...if it goes in...it's gotta come out sometime...and SOMEWHERE.
Are you like, high on cattle fodder or something ? Windows Forms is SPECIFICALLY platform DEPENDENT, it sits atop Win32 ( albeit quite poorly...every try to easily change font attributes without having to destroy and re-create objects galore ? ). It's a part of .NET that will NEVER get sent to a standards organization. Probably because the clamoring of OPENING UP the API would be more than they would care to deal with.
You actually believe that tripe ? It was posted by an AC for crimony sakes !!!
A) Yes, I've read both the EULA and the GPL. B) Why didn't you publish this sort of study, if that's all it took ?
If you've got a beef with the journalist, so be it. The research, however, confirms to me, the impressions I've felt for a while. The MS EULA should really be called MSCYA ( or maybe MSCBA ).
Being the NULL pointer you are, you should get your addresses right before you dereferences yourself.
brief !
All Software Engineers are programmers, but not all programmers are Software Engineers. Sorry, but "professional accreditation" is why I went to a "college of engineering" and studied Computer Science. I took classes in things some "code monkeys" don't even think are important today ( Yeah, I'd like to see some of you VB or script-kiddies do microcode design ). I've also seen Electrical Engineers who thought that because they had "Engineer" in their title and they knew how to slap together a program that that "entitled" them to add "Software Engineer" to their titles.....yeah, right. As always, non-technical people, and perhaps some narrow-minded technical folks like to assign a yes or no answer to an "it depends" question. Folks....get a grip.
but no...they can tell, though they'll say they cannot. Have you ever used an ICE machine ( and no, I'm not talking about a CPU cooler either ) ? If a CPU is dead, and cannot boot, there are diagnostic tests that can still be performed ( unless there's a black spot on the CPU die ).
Lying customers overclocking their CPU's are such a miniscule percentage of their total CPU output it's ridiculous to think that they'd invest the $$ involved in salaries and legal fees to stop. Why "the hell" do I think they're looking into it ?
I already answered that question...CPU prices...as in, keeping them artificially high.
A) No, I've been around the industry long enough to know that people have their points, but usually stop looking at the bigger picture and get stuck in their little microcosm ( which apparently you've done ).
B) It's not a matter of caring if I'm wrong ( which I'm not ). I don't DISAGREE with some of the statements that've been made, but rather that the people making them neglect to look at the bigger picture.
C) I'm not overblown, there are just that many people who don't think through their arguments.
Get yourself a screen name instead of a veil. Oh, and before you call someone insane, how about you take a look in the mirror in the morning, before you've put on your makeup.
Whomever told you that Intel has no way of telling if a CPU was tampered with is feeding you bull-hockey. They have ALWAYS had ways of telling. As far back as 80286's. There are specific gates in each processor which will give certain resistances when current is applied the several pins on the CPU. I don't see how this generated any bad publicity for Intel ( by all means, post the links to the articles relating said negative publicity. ).
That there are ass-clowns in the overclocking community that have NO business ( You know who you are ! Don't hide. ) getting near a CPU, I'll grant you that. Just as there are some people who have no business getting behind the wheel of a car, but there they are.....right in front of you on your commute to work.
They HAVE a means to verify that CPU's were tampered with.....and if so....guess what'll happen ? There's that extra charge on your Mastercard....and just TRY to argue the point with the credit card company when Intel says "Attempted Fraud". Whoomp.
And for the record...if I paid for a CPU, it's mine, not theirs, I can cook it, fry it, ice it, do whatever I want to with it. If I know that it will void my right to any claims against them, then they should shut up and not bitch that I'm "hurting their poor baby cpu".
Geez ! Most overclockers probably take better care of their CPU's ( Water Coolers, Peltier rigs, AIR CONDITIONING COILS ), than your average Joe SixPack that has their box sitting. They spend more money in PROTECTING their investment.
So don't go off farting that overclocking is going to hurt their intellectual property. At least come up with a VALID argument, before you pronounce something obviously as inane and flagrantly Anti-Consumer as this patent.
The "reason" for this being pursued was because, en masse, some taiwanese and singapore distribution houses were buying bulk, shaving off the silk screening, re-masking the parts, and then selling the parts by the crate.
The fact that THEY allowed this behavior to occur because of their own distribution practices contributed to it happening. So I don't think their reputation was really as marred as people here keep saying.
Hey, do you think if they really lost THAT much money, that they'd be able to put on some of the advertising that they do on TV ? When was the last time you say an AMD Commercial on during the SuperBowl...do the math.
And for that matter, 1999 ? That was 4 years ago, which may have been the cusp of when it was occurring, but I think the newer generations of CPU's, and changed in the market itself, have brushed much of that necessity for this "technical achievement".