real science is boring. Check out realclimate.org and see what I mean. Real climate scientists discussing the real issues with real data.
Yawn.
To become a media billionaire, you need raw, bloody, conflict. Good vs. evil. Us vs. them. If there is little conflict in the scientific community, there is no money to be made there.
You need some plausible face to present as 'the other side', even if s/he's blantently making things up and misrepresenting. Heck, better if he's making things up, and getting close to shouting too.
Now that's good television! It's good slashdot too!
And without sides, you have no conflict. And without conflict, you have no story, and you sell no papers, get no nielsons. It used to be known as "Yellow", now it is just SOP.
They take a few thousand pages of scientific papers from peer reviewed journals and put them on one side of the scale.
Then they put a novel by Crichton on the other side. If that doesn't balance out, they put a second or third copy of Crichton's fantasies on the scale until it does. Or maybe a video tape of him ranting about how global warming research is like eugenics 'n stuff.
See, Fair and Balanced!
I'd like to know which of them are reproducible.
That moon has been might big lately, you sure that gravity thing works on an object of that scale? It's never been proven in the lab, after all...
Sadly (for worshippers of the invisible hand) fuel cells are not a power source, so most of the power will still come from burning fossile fuels to make the hydrogen that powers the fuel cells for the next generation 1000 horsepower hemi (yeah it don't need hemis, don't even have heads, but it's got hemi anyway, see??) allwheel plus optional robot crazy legs 0-60 in.18628 seconds "Green" SUVs.
Fuel cells do make a great bait and switch for the fossil fuel investors, though, don't they!
You have on the one hand a peer reviewed, falsifiable, reproducible study that says one thing by a bunch of folks (perhaps in lab coats) who studied and workd 8-10 years of their lives to get to the point where they could be 'peer' reviewed.
On the other hand you have something called a study with none of the above features (except the authors often have a TLA in something, though maybe not anything to do with atmospherics or even physics).
But the press thrives on conflict, so it reports both studies as being by 'noted scientists' or maybe one was a fictional tale by some guy who wrote alot of SCIENCE (fiction).
Most folks have no idea what 'falsifiable', 'peer review', or 'reproducible' have to do with anything important like the price of gas, so they believe the press when it tells them that the different 'studies' represent two sides of the issue (fair and balanced).
And with enough money on both sides to support new 'studies' the debate could well go on until every last icecube in Greenland turns into liquid oxygen dihydride.
Then the big controversy will be whether to build giant seawalls around the coastal cities or to run screaming for higher ground.
And you can bet the press will present that story with two nicely balanced sides, as well.
instead of the airlines and the trucking industry, we'd have bullet trains here in the ol'USA.
It's funny to think that the (now) heavily subsidized automobile/trucking industry was originally supported by politicians as a way to breakup the railroad monopolies and clean up (from all the horse poop) the cities:-).
Do you think their 'xenophobia' is due to some genetic trait they have? Might it be due to the fact that every inch of arable land has been farmed there for centuries and population increases have led to starvation there for a very long time?
If the only place to put immigrants were in your front yard, might you have a different point of view?
"France has more liberal immigration laws"
France has less than 1/2 the population of Japan and a great deal more arable (and buildable) land than Japan.
in Japan's defense wrt immigration: they have 127million people crammed into a land area (147500square mi.) smaller than California's(~33million).
They don't have millions of acres of farmland they can turn into housing nor giant aquifers they can drain for water, so this policy makes some good sense for their situation.
that mambo, postnuke, xaraya, etc. don't already do?
Not looking for flames, but explaining why you are writing a new app., noting what you are trying to do that current ones don't do, might be a good place to start in getting advice.
It uses more of a human based system, it 'learns' as folks type in different questions (and versions of the same question)and tell it whether the answers it gives are helpful. As uses 'teach' it, it gets better at providing relevent results to natural language queries.
The original point was 'jsp doesn't seem to scale as well as php', and none of the reams of text you've pasted here comes close to disproving that.
What would are some very large sites using jsp, which for all the links you posted, you haven't been able to show.
More and larger sites use php than jsp. I pointed out ebay, which is still using dlls for much of it's heavy load. You brought up playboy, which seems to be mostly a static site running some cgi scripts: http://cyber.playboy.com/cgi/ab.cgi.
The proof is in the implementation, we know php scales and jsp, well there are plenty of fanboys who will post endless scholarly diatribes about how great it would be if someone would listen too you, but you don't seem to be able to produce any very high load sites to back up your case.
So I'll ask again, what are the largest sites running jsp? If you are going to post benchmarks again (b/c you can't find any jsp sites of major size), please try to stay on topic: benchmarks showing how java/jsp handles thousands of concurrent users, how it compares to apache/p* in a high performance cluster, etc.
The shop I run has been coding web apps in various languages for going on 7 years now.
Once we dropped the others as much as possible and focused on php, our productivity went through the roof.
It's much faster to write the application in php, then identify performance issues and code those functions as c++ extentions than it is to write the whole thing in java. This is Radwin's point, and I've seen it proven repeatedly in practice.
'Java's as fast as C++'. OMFG. LOL.
My my, must have struck a nerve
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A Decade of PHP
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· Score: 1
We also don't know how much it will cost for Yahoo to completely handle Yahoo's load.
Actually, we do. Update your sources. Yahoo is ~3x as large as ebay, and all their presentation logic is in php.
And of course their processing isn't all PHP. In fact one of Radwin's core points was that you can take repeatedly run php scripts, and turn them into php extentions to improve performance. It would be foolish to do heavy processing in php (or jsp).
Their servers are Sun servers running Solaris. eBay gets something like 1Billion hits a day
Rather goes to the heart of this issue, I think:
If x 'sux' on your servers (and remember you have hundreds of them), and x is required for y to work well, and you would need to buy expensive commercial servers to use y on your site, and z does as well or better on your existing servers than y could with servers that supported x, you would be pretty silly to replace your servers (or to run around trying to figure out who's fault it all is).
So the question was what servers would be required to get jsp to compete on scalability with php, and your answer is Solaris? Or do you just not have any idea?
they're using ioncube's php accelerator which is free but not open source.
So that IS kind of like java, then:-). On the other hand, Yahoo could switch to an open source accelerator if they wanted/needed to.
When is Sun going to open source java?
Which fits in the 'easily/cheaply' side of the eq
on
A Decade of PHP
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· Score: 1
if they had to switch their serverOS to use jsp, then it certainly would have been harder/more expensive to use jsp just in switching/retraining costs. If they had touse a commercial server platform to get equivalent performance, it would cost even more.
Of course we don't know how much it would cost to scale jsp to handle yahoo's load b/c no one has tried it yet. Hopefully ebay will release some numbers when they get it going and then we will have some real world data use to evaluate whether jsp can scale to handle the loads php can, and what that might cost to do.
So the best we have now is that jsp might be able to scale as easily/cheaply/well as php, on the right servers (what serverOS would you suggest?). Or maybe not.
By the way, do you think IBM's 'embrace' of PHP might have something to do with their experience with ebay?
Alot of people just don't really like rigid and sophisticated:-)
You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot For taste of your sophisticated API I may not have a rigid OO structure, babe But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride.
I guess the other thing is that Apache/PHP seems to scale better (or at least easier/cheaper than Tomcat. I may be going to hell on an elephant, babe But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride.
the writing was every bit as brilliant as the f/x, I just was having some bad popcorn. It wasn't a throwaway line to fill up some space, right, and it was every bit up-to-par with 'back in the old days, in place it takes much longer to drive to than hoboken' and all that.
It's a good thing Lucas let me know that 'evil was everywhere', b/c I never would have seen that good old boy Sidious comin', if George hadn't spelled it out for me.
And did you notice how much stress Anakin was under? Its a good thing Lucas had the actors repeat this so often, I would have had a hard time figuring it out, otherwise.
No, we really needed a missle that turned into buzz saw bots to tell the story, we needed that alot more than some 'flowery' writing, that's fer sure!
If a human admissions officer put the info. on their door, and then hung a sheet of paper over it to 'secure it', would the students be 'hackers' if they lifted the paper up? Now in this case, perhaps the admissions folks really thought the paper was a form of security, it seems like an 'emperor wears no clothes' kind of thing: is the tailor at fault for telling the emperor he was wearing a suit? Is the emperor for not checking it out? In this case we are blaming the people who looked at the emperor and saw him naked!
Anything that is accessble by an unsecured url is publicly published (it's a 'uniform resource LOCATOR', after all). There was a cognitive choice made at some point to call this system 'secure', --or someone didn't read the manual--and that person is the one who published the information at a public URL.
The applicants just found the place it had been publically published before they were told to look there, which hardly seems a 'crime', really it seems more like initiative than anything else.
Slashdot Mirror
you're all worked up about how much better the frying pan is than the fire.
And you really can't see how you've stuck yourself in a false dilemna and are arguing for it's perpetuation.
for some time now by False Dichotomy.
Very few people have noticed, the makeup artist sure is good.
real science is boring. Check out realclimate.org and see what I mean. Real climate scientists discussing the real issues with real data.
Yawn.
To become a media billionaire, you need raw, bloody, conflict. Good vs. evil. Us vs. them. If there is little conflict in the scientific community, there is no money to be made there.
You need some plausible face to present as 'the other side', even if s/he's blantently making things up and misrepresenting. Heck, better if he's making things up, and getting close to shouting too.
Now that's good television! It's good slashdot too!
Science doesn't take sides.
And without sides, you have no conflict. And without conflict, you have no story, and you sell no papers, get no nielsons. It used to be known as "Yellow", now it is just SOP.
PS, if you can handle it, try this www.realclimate.org
Watch out though, it's like really boring, buncha eggheads, going on and on about stuff, with their studies and references and all that muck...
They take a few thousand pages of scientific papers from peer reviewed journals and put them on one side of the scale.
Then they put a novel by Crichton on the other side. If that doesn't balance out, they put a second or third copy of Crichton's fantasies on the scale until it does. Or maybe a video tape of him ranting about how global warming research is like eugenics 'n stuff.
See, Fair and Balanced!
I'd like to know which of them are reproducible.
That moon has been might big lately, you sure that gravity thing works on an object of that scale? It's never been proven in the lab, after all...
of the parent point!
.18628 seconds "Green" SUVs.
Sadly (for worshippers of the invisible hand) fuel cells are not a power source, so most of the power will still come from burning fossile fuels to make the hydrogen that powers the fuel cells for the next generation 1000 horsepower hemi (yeah it don't need hemis, don't even have heads, but it's got hemi anyway, see??) allwheel plus optional robot crazy legs 0-60 in
Fuel cells do make a great bait and switch for the fossil fuel investors, though, don't they!
You have on the one hand a peer reviewed, falsifiable, reproducible study that says one thing by a bunch of folks (perhaps in lab coats) who studied and workd 8-10 years of their lives to get to the point where they could be 'peer' reviewed.
On the other hand you have something called a study with none of the above features (except the authors often have a TLA in something, though maybe not anything to do with atmospherics or even physics).
But the press thrives on conflict, so it reports both studies as being by 'noted scientists' or maybe one was a fictional tale by some guy who wrote alot of SCIENCE (fiction).
Most folks have no idea what 'falsifiable', 'peer review', or 'reproducible' have to do with anything important like the price of gas, so they believe the press when it tells them that the different 'studies' represent two sides of the issue (fair and balanced).
And with enough money on both sides to support new 'studies' the debate could well go on until every last icecube in Greenland turns into liquid oxygen dihydride.
Then the big controversy will be whether to build giant seawalls around the coastal cities or to run screaming for higher ground.
And you can bet the press will present that story with two nicely balanced sides, as well.
instead of the airlines and the trucking industry, we'd have bullet trains here in the ol'USA.
It's funny to think that the (now) heavily subsidized automobile/trucking industry was originally supported by politicians as a way to breakup the railroad monopolies and clean up (from all the horse poop) the cities:-).
for a very long time.
Do you think their 'xenophobia' is due to some genetic trait they have? Might it be due to the fact that every inch of arable land has been farmed there for centuries and population increases have led to starvation there for a very long time?
If the only place to put immigrants were in your front yard, might you have a different point of view?
"France has more liberal immigration laws"
France has less than 1/2 the population of Japan and a great deal more arable (and buildable) land than Japan.
in Japan's defense wrt immigration: they have 127million people crammed into a land area (147500square mi.) smaller than California's(~33million).
They don't have millions of acres of farmland they can turn into housing nor giant aquifers they can drain for water, so this policy makes some good sense for their situation.
Evil was everywhere
All your base are belong to us...
Now that would have been a prequel!
has the largest brain of any animal (~9kg).
Welcome our giant headed, squid-eating, Pequod bashing, overlords!
that mambo, postnuke, xaraya, etc. don't already do?
Not looking for flames, but explaining why you are writing a new app., noting what you are trying to do that current ones don't do, might be a good place to start in getting advice.
for an 'intelligent' FAQ.
It uses more of a human based system, it 'learns' as folks type in different questions (and versions of the same question)and tell it whether the answers it gives are helpful. As uses 'teach' it, it gets better at providing relevent results to natural language queries.
Worth a look:
http://mindmeld.sourceforge.net/mmsf/index.php
performance != scalability.
The original point was 'jsp doesn't seem to scale as well as php', and none of the reams of text you've pasted here comes close to disproving that.
What would are some very large sites using jsp, which for all the links you posted, you haven't been able to show.
More and larger sites use php than jsp. I pointed out ebay, which is still using dlls for much of it's heavy load. You brought up playboy, which seems to be mostly a static site running some cgi scripts: http://cyber.playboy.com/cgi/ab.cgi.
The proof is in the implementation, we know php scales and jsp, well there are plenty of fanboys who will post endless scholarly diatribes about how great it would be if someone would listen too you, but you don't seem to be able to produce any very high load sites to back up your case.
So I'll ask again, what are the largest sites running jsp? If you are going to post benchmarks again (b/c you can't find any jsp sites of major size), please try to stay on topic: benchmarks showing how java/jsp handles thousands of concurrent users, how it compares to apache/p* in a high performance cluster, etc.
The shop I run has been coding web apps in various languages for going on 7 years now.
Once we dropped the others as much as possible and focused on php, our productivity went through the roof.
It's much faster to write the application in php, then identify performance issues and code those functions as c++ extentions than it is to write the whole thing in java. This is Radwin's point, and I've seen it proven repeatedly in practice.
'Java's as fast as C++'. OMFG. LOL.
We also don't know how much it will cost for Yahoo to completely handle Yahoo's load.
Actually, we do. Update your sources. Yahoo is ~3x as large as ebay, and all their presentation logic is in php.
"For example Yahoo!, which serves up 2.85 billion page views a day and supports 345 million visitors a month, uses PHP for all its presentation logic."
And of course their processing isn't all PHP. In fact one of Radwin's core points was that you can take repeatedly run php scripts, and turn them into php extentions to improve performance. It would be foolish to do heavy processing in php (or jsp).
Their servers are Sun servers running Solaris. eBay gets something like 1Billion hits a day
Rather goes to the heart of this issue, I think:
If x 'sux' on your servers (and remember you have hundreds of them), and x is required for y to work well, and you would need to buy expensive commercial servers to use y on your site, and z does as well or better on your existing servers than y could with servers that supported x, you would be pretty silly to replace your servers (or to run around trying to figure out who's fault it all is).
So the question was what servers would be required to get jsp to compete on scalability with php, and your answer is Solaris? Or do you just not have any idea?
they're using ioncube's php accelerator which is free but not open source.
So that IS kind of like java, then:-). On the other hand, Yahoo could switch to an open source accelerator if they wanted/needed to.
When is Sun going to open source java?
if they had to switch their serverOS to use jsp, then it certainly would have been harder/more expensive to use jsp just in switching/retraining costs. If they had touse a commercial server platform to get equivalent performance, it would cost even more.
Of course we don't know how much it would cost to scale jsp to handle yahoo's load b/c no one has tried it yet. Hopefully ebay will release some numbers when they get it going and then we will have some real world data use to evaluate whether jsp can scale to handle the loads php can, and what that might cost to do.
So the best we have now is that jsp might be able to scale as easily/cheaply/well as php, on the right servers (what serverOS would you suggest?). Or maybe not.
By the way, do you think IBM's 'embrace' of PHP might have something to do with their experience with ebay?
are there any sites using jsp anywhere near the number of pages/day of Yahoo?
r u=http://www.ebay.com/).
The largest jsp site I've heard of is ebay, ~1/3 the size of yahoo, and still using IIS for many of their hi-load parts (https://signin.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?SignIn&
BTW, why is it taking ebay so long to switch over to jsp?
Yahoo switched to PHP from their in-house scripting language.
And evaluated & rejected J2EE and jsp in the process. I'll let you google that for yourself:-).
"the rigid OO structure and sophisticated APIs"
Alot of people just don't really like rigid and sophisticated:-)
You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot
For taste of your sophisticated API
I may not have a rigid OO structure, babe
But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride.
I guess the other thing is that Apache/PHP seems to scale better (or at least easier/cheaper than Tomcat.
I may be going to hell on an elephant, babe
But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride.
publish this somewhere. K5 if you have no where else. Or start a blog or something.
.gov, .edu folks to see, esp. in Cali. where Sec. 508 is now state law (for state funded inst.).
This kind of info. would be great for
TIA!
you were shown heroes on that side, but you decided not to view Grievous, Dooku and others as the heroes that the separatists saw them as.
... to rise again many years later.
Lucas never showed them being heroic, just nasty, sneaky, evil and dastardly.
PS:
And they overlaid the teaching of Ionia
And the Truth was choked at birth
Let us hope for the best.
And there were heroes on both sides.
you obvioulsy didn't get the parent comment (hint, it was about how it was said, not what was being said).
the writing was every bit as brilliant as the f/x, I just was having some bad popcorn. It wasn't a throwaway line to fill up some space, right, and it was every bit up-to-par with 'back in the old days, in place it takes much longer to drive to than hoboken' and all that.
It's a good thing Lucas let me know that 'evil was everywhere', b/c I never would have seen that good old boy Sidious comin', if George hadn't spelled it out for me.
And did you notice how much stress Anakin was under? Its a good thing Lucas had the actors repeat this so often, I would have had a hard time figuring it out, otherwise.
No, we really needed a missle that turned into buzz saw bots to tell the story, we needed that alot more than some 'flowery' writing, that's fer sure!
at fault?
If a human admissions officer put the info. on their door, and then hung a sheet of paper over it to 'secure it', would the students be 'hackers' if they lifted the paper up? Now in this case, perhaps the admissions folks really thought the paper was a form of security, it seems like an 'emperor wears no clothes' kind of thing: is the tailor at fault for telling the emperor he was wearing a suit? Is the emperor for not checking it out? In this case we are blaming the people who looked at the emperor and saw him naked!
Anything that is accessble by an unsecured url is publicly published (it's a 'uniform resource LOCATOR', after all). There was a cognitive choice made at some point to call this system 'secure', --or someone didn't read the manual--and that person is the one who published the information at a public URL.
The applicants just found the place it had been publically published before they were told to look there, which hardly seems a 'crime', really it seems more like initiative than anything else.