Good thought, but that will only take care of file share permissions. Samba will not take care of workstation authentication.
Chances are their company is much like ours. They have a Microsoft Universe and will ONLY use Microsoft products to manage that world. Unfortunately that's about 90% of the company. The rest of the company consists of individual islands composed of LDAP, NIS and NIS+. Your chances of integrating a non-MS machine into a MS environment is probably more a political battle. Your best bet is to use AD for MS authentication. The MS admins don't know anything else, and use LDAP or something universal to manage all the rest (Solaris,Linux,OS X,...). Then, as you said, use a central Samba server to bridge the gap of file and print sharing to the MS world and vice versa. The only drawback is managing a separate account for each user in two different naming services, but it sure beats the political battle of trying to convince the MS crowd to use something universal. Believe me, that's a losing battle...
...but wait...what if there wasn't an empty phone booth availible?
Honestly, the best geek discussion I had like this was a showdown between the DeathStar vs the Borg. Of course, the DeathStar would win hands down:)
Say it was a "legal" permit for them to lay advertisements across midtown. Would it have been "illegal" if a bunch of Linux die hards when around cleaning it up? And yeah! Dressed as penguins would have been the kicker. Could almost carry a story line like "Linux cleans up after Microsoft's mess!" Talk about an advertising campain backfire.
I stand corrected! I wasn't aware of the illegal ramifications. I only concider it to be bad taste. If it was a pep rally, I guess that's one thing, but the law is correct. Grafiti is grafiti. Even if they were Picaso paintings without advertising associated, it's still visual destruction. So yes, THROW THEM ALL IN JAIL!
Agreed. It's not like they're breaking the law.
Personally, I hate ad campains like this. But it's legal...now, if the Linux community wanted to steal the visual show...Maybe they could get a bunch of Linux streakers to skate right past them...guess the streaking part would be illegal eh?
Well then, I completely agree with your initial response. To each their own...
To me, saying Linux implies GNU utilities suppliment the OS. If someone feels they need to change the title because they don't know what makes up a Linux system, so be it. I think it dumbs things down unnecessarily.
On a side issue...say none of this happened. Say Linux didn't exist. Now lets say HURD is at a stable release level. The OS is done and of course it would include the GNU utilities from FSF. Now lets say it rose to the level of fame that Linux is at now. Do you think RMS would insist that the name be GNU/HURD? Or do you think because HURD was a FSF project that GNU would be implied (sorta like the Linux argument)?
I think you know the answer. And it's that mentallity is why I have a beef with RMS trying to force his will on the community. Do I question the GNU contribution to the Linux community? No, but I do question his right to force his will. He should have been honored that Linux was released under a GPL, but that wasn't enough. And my impression that RMS doesn't give credit to other communities that he's leveraged from so bad (ala BSD), I can't help but label him as a hyprocrit. If he can't pay respect to others, I have no obligation to respect him.
Speculation here, but it's probably just as interesting that RMS most likely used BSD tools to develope the GCC compiler and subsiquently the GNU utilities. And instead of leveraging their license, he made up his own. In the process, trying to claim as much credit for himself as possible. I wonder if he ever thanked them....
If that was the case, and I'm sure it was, then I'd have to give Linus lots of credit for not being as selfrightous and instead working with the community. Ok, Linus DID name an OS after himself, but really...if I had the same name and changing one letter made it sound like a flavor of UNIX, I'd probably do the same thing.
Yes, and I ask....do you use Emacs on a VT100? Oh no, not an XTerm emulating a vt100 terminal. I'm asking if you do all your work at a basic dumb terminal. I'm willing to bet that you at least run a GUI of some sort. Maybe even Exceed from a Windows desktop, but that doesn't count either. Point is, you probably use a GUI.
I'm not saying a GUI an operating system it makes. I'm just saying it'd probably be a pretty unpopular one. Cisco routers have a pretty cool OS, but I certainly don't use it at my desktop.
And if you're wondering, I do use vt100 terms all the time (mostly vt220), but only as a last resort on a headless server.
It's not a question of non-free vs free. It's a question of credit going where credit is due. RMS wants credit for his contributions to Linux, but his approach to getting that fame is very flawed.
So anyone who disagrees with your perspective is a troll. I won't even go there as I see your narrow minded approach to an argument will only resort to flames.
You slap the BSD utilities anyway...hum, when compared to the AT&T tools of the time, they were superior. So the FSF reinvented the wheel. Instead of building off already said freeware, they, in their own philophy felt they should go it alone. Nothing wrong with that...and yes, they do indeed exceed their predicessors in some ways (a trade off in many). One could say they used the freely availible code of BSD utilities (as a model) to create their own, but that's only speculation and by the BSD license, its totally acceptible (not the reverse I might add).
As to the approach of calculating 95% of Linux is really FSF code. Tell me, does that include emacs? How about the GCC compilier and associated tools? How about we strip out all other tools that aren't really what I'd concider a "base" system? Solaris as an OS doesn't include the compiler, emacs or other such bloat. So once we remove all the bloat and just look at the essential 20 or so commands (ls,cat,tar,...) that I'd concider elemental to every UNIX, do you REALLY arrive at 95%? I mean really? The basic commands, no compiler vs the kernal and all the associated drivers. Do you really think you'd still be at 95%? I'd say vim would be your largest (source) contribution that I'd concider essential.
Now to address the XFree flame you gave me. You mean to tell me that you do all your work at a VT100 terminal? I think you know pretty well what I mean when I talk about the GUI contribution to the UNIX environment. Face it, if Linux didn't have XFree, do you honestly think people would use it? If the OS alone is so important, why did OpenBSD even bother with a port of XFree? Sure the server side of an OS doesn't need the GUI, but it's sure make for an unpopular OS without one.
There's some more troll food for you. Eat up!
I see the ranting comes from both sides...I agree I have my dislikes for irrogant cusses like RMS, but that's not to say I don't appreciate his work...and what's with the spamming of BSD? Like where did that come from and how is FSF stuff better? Anyway, you failed to understand the point. I'm saying that last 5% that you call Linux....well great! Define that last 5% explicity, have Linus endorse it and now we have a definition of what Linux really is. And likewise, RMS should define what GNU is. I guess by your standards is a certain percentage of a product consisting of FSF software or is it GNU licensing? When you think about it RMS get far more fame than deserved. Think of all the software out there with a GNU license. I'd think many people confuse that with RMS actually writing the code...yeah, pretty silly just like the nonsense of how a product is named. So there you have it. If RMS and FSF need their fame, than define what it means to be GNU and when "GNU" is installed on a system, we can say, "Yup, I run Solaris, but I use GNU utilities" or "Yup, it's Linux with the GNU utilities and the XFree GUI". Hell, I think Linux/GNU is useless without the good work of the XFree team so let's not forget them right? Just stop your crying...
And how hyprocritical for you to think a rewrite of basic commands to avoid GNU is a bad thing. The same argument can be used DIRECTLY against the FSF. Why did FSF deem it necessary to rewrite all the free stuff from BSD? All RMS and FSF did was reinvent the wheel. Sure, it's great stuff, but they could have leveraged what was already there in the free world. Oh, you mean they didn't like the BSD license?....What can I say?....All the FSF and GNU zealots are a bunch of hyprocrits. And by the way, I don't advocate a "rewrite". I just think the Linux community should separate itself from GNU via a system definition that doesn't include any stuff from FSF. As a system, yes, it wouldn't be complete, but at least the name Linux by itself will have a meaning. Besides....RMS has been so childish so far....I wouldn't doubt it if by the time HURD ever does get developed, the FSF will drop support for Linux like a cheap whore. You don't think that'll happen?....we'll see...
I totally agree, but only to a point. I think there should be a standard on what a Linux core system is. And that "core" system should be part of every Linux distro. So what's the "core", I'd make it as simple as possible. It should be a simple filesystem structure, standard set of drivers, and the very minimal set of system commands (something less then 20 commands and perferribly NOT anything from FSF). The "core" probably wouldn't be anything more that say 5Mb. Then everything else, like the GNU utilities, GCC, XFree,... would all be addons. This would be very analogous to the UNIX days with the BSD distro addon. When you think about it, isn't that what Linux is today? And besides, then we could end that whole dumbass Linux vs Linux/GNU naming scheme that RMS and his FSF buddies cry about. Linux would then be LINUX and GNU will then be what is really is....just a bunch of addon utilities. That to me is the cleanist approach to standardising Linux.
I'm with ya. I'm still holding out on a new "walkman(tm)". I still have an old casset/radio sony sport waterproof walkman that I use. I'd really like to get one that uses CF or SmartMedia cards so I can ditch the cassets. I just refuse to go the MP3 way. Nothing against MP3 except I'd prefer to deal with only Ogg files on my system. So it would be nice if at least one company stepped up and offered the ability to do Ogg on one of these devices.
I see this as the major fault of the DR plan. Why would I pay for a service that uses advertisements to suppliment income? By the way, I don't use cable for the same reason. I believe if you pay for a service, you should exclusively get what you pay for and no extra baggage. If the service has ads, then the service should be free or public.
I think a better plan for DR would be to incorporate multimedia broadcasting. You know, like what 224.0.0.0 nets were reserved for (but not used anymore). I think it'd be great to have an on board computer that gets continuous weather updates and news reports (like what I have on my pager, but more detail). So you could get updated weather maps and news with some live video. Yes, maybe not today, but the service definitely has promise. Just drop all that ad crap. I won't pay for ads!
That was my angle to the whole 2 challel sceme. I played with one of these slick racers, but didn't opt to buy one myself because of the lame fun of only being able to race one other person. Now, how hard would it have been to use one channel coded for multiple devices (say 16 cars)? Damn, could you imagine the fun of setting up a track with 16 cars! I guess the next mod will be the mash-up derby bodies. Would love one of these suckers with a crumpled 67 chevy body with a hood that explosed on impact.
If you really were into the warz scene, I can't believe you'd give such pathetic answers. I can only assume you're much smarter than that and your bucking for parol or this whole artical was a total scam. I have my money on the scam angle.
Myself, I'm not into the warz scene, but I am a sysadmin and can afford to buy shit. Comes right down to it, some shit I buy, some shit I take. The shit I take is usally just that, SHIT! If it's good shit, then I go out and buy a legit copy. This applies to software and music. As far as companies complaining that they're losing millions from piracy, sorry, that's a load of crap. The people into the warz scene (both crackers and users) aren't the ones who'd buy the software in the first place. If they couldn't get a warz copy, they probably wouldn't buy it either hence net product sold to the warz community would still be zero. Those freaking companies aren't losing money and they know it! And triple goes for the music industry.
If music and software were at a reasonible price, people wouldn't be stealing it. It's greed on the company's side that causes the warz scene to exist in the first place.
On a side note, it amazes me that the enforment agentcy is so dilligent with cracking down on piracy, yet Microsoft can still sell buggy software and be able to have the disclaimer that says if it causes dammage, they can't be sued.
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Good thought, but that will only take care of file share permissions. Samba will not take care of workstation authentication.
Chances are their company is much like ours. They have a Microsoft Universe and will ONLY use Microsoft products to manage that world. Unfortunately that's about 90% of the company. The rest of the company consists of individual islands composed of LDAP, NIS and NIS+. Your chances of integrating a non-MS machine into a MS environment is probably more a political battle. Your best bet is to use AD for MS authentication. The MS admins don't know anything else, and use LDAP or something universal to manage all the rest (Solaris,Linux,OS X,...). Then, as you said, use a central Samba server to bridge the gap of file and print sharing to the MS world and vice versa. The only drawback is managing a separate account for each user in two different naming services, but it sure beats the political battle of trying to convince the MS crowd to use something universal. Believe me, that's a losing battle...
...but wait...what if there wasn't an empty phone booth availible? Honestly, the best geek discussion I had like this was a showdown between the DeathStar vs the Borg. Of course, the DeathStar would win hands down :)
Hey, you beat to the punch!
Say it was a "legal" permit for them to lay advertisements across midtown. Would it have been "illegal" if a bunch of Linux die hards when around cleaning it up? And yeah! Dressed as penguins would have been the kicker. Could almost carry a story line like "Linux cleans up after Microsoft's mess!" Talk about an advertising campain backfire.
Yikes! Yikes! Yikes!
I stand corrected! I wasn't aware of the illegal ramifications. I only concider it to be bad taste. If it was a pep rally, I guess that's one thing, but the law is correct. Grafiti is grafiti. Even if they were Picaso paintings without advertising associated, it's still visual destruction. So yes, THROW THEM ALL IN JAIL!
Agreed. It's not like they're breaking the law.
Personally, I hate ad campains like this. But it's legal...now, if the Linux community wanted to steal the visual show...Maybe they could get a bunch of Linux streakers to skate right past them...guess the streaking part would be illegal eh?
...and without it the GNU user base would be so much smaller.
Well then, I completely agree with your initial response. To each their own...
To me, saying Linux implies GNU utilities suppliment the OS. If someone feels they need to change the title because they don't know what makes up a Linux system, so be it. I think it dumbs things down unnecessarily.
On a side issue...say none of this happened. Say Linux didn't exist. Now lets say HURD is at a stable release level. The OS is done and of course it would include the GNU utilities from FSF. Now lets say it rose to the level of fame that Linux is at now. Do you think RMS would insist that the name be GNU/HURD? Or do you think because HURD was a FSF project that GNU would be implied (sorta like the Linux argument)?
I think you know the answer. And it's that mentallity is why I have a beef with RMS trying to force his will on the community. Do I question the GNU contribution to the Linux community? No, but I do question his right to force his will. He should have been honored that Linux was released under a GPL, but that wasn't enough. And my impression that RMS doesn't give credit to other communities that he's leveraged from so bad (ala BSD), I can't help but label him as a hyprocrit. If he can't pay respect to others, I have no obligation to respect him.
Speculation here, but it's probably just as interesting that RMS most likely used BSD tools to develope the GCC compiler and subsiquently the GNU utilities. And instead of leveraging their license, he made up his own. In the process, trying to claim as much credit for himself as possible. I wonder if he ever thanked them....
If that was the case, and I'm sure it was, then I'd have to give Linus lots of credit for not being as selfrightous and instead working with the community. Ok, Linus DID name an OS after himself, but really...if I had the same name and changing one letter made it sound like a flavor of UNIX, I'd probably do the same thing.
Yes, and I ask....do you use Emacs on a VT100? Oh no, not an XTerm emulating a vt100 terminal. I'm asking if you do all your work at a basic dumb terminal. I'm willing to bet that you at least run a GUI of some sort. Maybe even Exceed from a Windows desktop, but that doesn't count either. Point is, you probably use a GUI.
I'm not saying a GUI an operating system it makes. I'm just saying it'd probably be a pretty unpopular one. Cisco routers have a pretty cool OS, but I certainly don't use it at my desktop.
And if you're wondering, I do use vt100 terms all the time (mostly vt220), but only as a last resort on a headless server.
It's not a question of non-free vs free. It's a question of credit going where credit is due. RMS wants credit for his contributions to Linux, but his approach to getting that fame is very flawed.
Agreed.
I'm honestly routing for the HURD project as I favor microkernal design.
So anyone who disagrees with your perspective is a troll. I won't even go there as I see your narrow minded approach to an argument will only resort to flames. You slap the BSD utilities anyway...hum, when compared to the AT&T tools of the time, they were superior. So the FSF reinvented the wheel. Instead of building off already said freeware, they, in their own philophy felt they should go it alone. Nothing wrong with that...and yes, they do indeed exceed their predicessors in some ways (a trade off in many). One could say they used the freely availible code of BSD utilities (as a model) to create their own, but that's only speculation and by the BSD license, its totally acceptible (not the reverse I might add). As to the approach of calculating 95% of Linux is really FSF code. Tell me, does that include emacs? How about the GCC compilier and associated tools? How about we strip out all other tools that aren't really what I'd concider a "base" system? Solaris as an OS doesn't include the compiler, emacs or other such bloat. So once we remove all the bloat and just look at the essential 20 or so commands (ls,cat,tar,...) that I'd concider elemental to every UNIX, do you REALLY arrive at 95%? I mean really? The basic commands, no compiler vs the kernal and all the associated drivers. Do you really think you'd still be at 95%? I'd say vim would be your largest (source) contribution that I'd concider essential. Now to address the XFree flame you gave me. You mean to tell me that you do all your work at a VT100 terminal? I think you know pretty well what I mean when I talk about the GUI contribution to the UNIX environment. Face it, if Linux didn't have XFree, do you honestly think people would use it? If the OS alone is so important, why did OpenBSD even bother with a port of XFree? Sure the server side of an OS doesn't need the GUI, but it's sure make for an unpopular OS without one. There's some more troll food for you. Eat up!
I see the ranting comes from both sides...I agree I have my dislikes for irrogant cusses like RMS, but that's not to say I don't appreciate his work...and what's with the spamming of BSD? Like where did that come from and how is FSF stuff better? Anyway, you failed to understand the point. I'm saying that last 5% that you call Linux....well great! Define that last 5% explicity, have Linus endorse it and now we have a definition of what Linux really is. And likewise, RMS should define what GNU is. I guess by your standards is a certain percentage of a product consisting of FSF software or is it GNU licensing? When you think about it RMS get far more fame than deserved. Think of all the software out there with a GNU license. I'd think many people confuse that with RMS actually writing the code...yeah, pretty silly just like the nonsense of how a product is named. So there you have it. If RMS and FSF need their fame, than define what it means to be GNU and when "GNU" is installed on a system, we can say, "Yup, I run Solaris, but I use GNU utilities" or "Yup, it's Linux with the GNU utilities and the XFree GUI". Hell, I think Linux/GNU is useless without the good work of the XFree team so let's not forget them right? Just stop your crying...
And how hyprocritical for you to think a rewrite of basic commands to avoid GNU is a bad thing. The same argument can be used DIRECTLY against the FSF. Why did FSF deem it necessary to rewrite all the free stuff from BSD? All RMS and FSF did was reinvent the wheel. Sure, it's great stuff, but they could have leveraged what was already there in the free world. Oh, you mean they didn't like the BSD license?....What can I say?....All the FSF and GNU zealots are a bunch of hyprocrits. And by the way, I don't advocate a "rewrite". I just think the Linux community should separate itself from GNU via a system definition that doesn't include any stuff from FSF. As a system, yes, it wouldn't be complete, but at least the name Linux by itself will have a meaning. Besides....RMS has been so childish so far....I wouldn't doubt it if by the time HURD ever does get developed, the FSF will drop support for Linux like a cheap whore. You don't think that'll happen?....we'll see...
I totally agree, but only to a point. I think there should be a standard on what a Linux core system is. And that "core" system should be part of every Linux distro. So what's the "core", I'd make it as simple as possible. It should be a simple filesystem structure, standard set of drivers, and the very minimal set of system commands (something less then 20 commands and perferribly NOT anything from FSF). The "core" probably wouldn't be anything more that say 5Mb. Then everything else, like the GNU utilities, GCC, XFree, ... would all be addons. This would be very analogous to the UNIX days with the BSD distro addon. When you think about it, isn't that what Linux is today? And besides, then we could end that whole dumbass Linux vs Linux/GNU naming scheme that RMS and his FSF buddies cry about. Linux would then be LINUX and GNU will then be what is really is....just a bunch of addon utilities. That to me is the cleanist approach to standardising Linux.
Get real. RMS is just a crazy fanatic and I pity the fools that follow him. He's an embarrasment to the programming community.
I'm with ya. I'm still holding out on a new "walkman(tm)". I still have an old casset/radio sony sport waterproof walkman that I use. I'd really like to get one that uses CF or SmartMedia cards so I can ditch the cassets. I just refuse to go the MP3 way. Nothing against MP3 except I'd prefer to deal with only Ogg files on my system. So it would be nice if at least one company stepped up and offered the ability to do Ogg on one of these devices.
I see this as the major fault of the DR plan. Why would I pay for a service that uses advertisements to suppliment income? By the way, I don't use cable for the same reason. I believe if you pay for a service, you should exclusively get what you pay for and no extra baggage. If the service has ads, then the service should be free or public. I think a better plan for DR would be to incorporate multimedia broadcasting. You know, like what 224.0.0.0 nets were reserved for (but not used anymore). I think it'd be great to have an on board computer that gets continuous weather updates and news reports (like what I have on my pager, but more detail). So you could get updated weather maps and news with some live video. Yes, maybe not today, but the service definitely has promise. Just drop all that ad crap. I won't pay for ads!
That was my angle to the whole 2 challel sceme. I played with one of these slick racers, but didn't opt to buy one myself because of the lame fun of only being able to race one other person. Now, how hard would it have been to use one channel coded for multiple devices (say 16 cars)? Damn, could you imagine the fun of setting up a track with 16 cars! I guess the next mod will be the mash-up derby bodies. Would love one of these suckers with a crumpled 67 chevy body with a hood that explosed on impact.
If you really were into the warz scene, I can't believe you'd give such pathetic answers. I can only assume you're much smarter than that and your bucking for parol or this whole artical was a total scam. I have my money on the scam angle. Myself, I'm not into the warz scene, but I am a sysadmin and can afford to buy shit. Comes right down to it, some shit I buy, some shit I take. The shit I take is usally just that, SHIT! If it's good shit, then I go out and buy a legit copy. This applies to software and music. As far as companies complaining that they're losing millions from piracy, sorry, that's a load of crap. The people into the warz scene (both crackers and users) aren't the ones who'd buy the software in the first place. If they couldn't get a warz copy, they probably wouldn't buy it either hence net product sold to the warz community would still be zero. Those freaking companies aren't losing money and they know it! And triple goes for the music industry. If music and software were at a reasonible price, people wouldn't be stealing it. It's greed on the company's side that causes the warz scene to exist in the first place. On a side note, it amazes me that the enforment agentcy is so dilligent with cracking down on piracy, yet Microsoft can still sell buggy software and be able to have the disclaimer that says if it causes dammage, they can't be sued.