"Besides, use.NET, the code is cleaner and simpler"
Oh sure, and when M$ decides that they need to sell yet another language you can write, whatever, again in WinFX. Maybe all those VB programmers that were layed off because of.NET will have learned WinFX while they were off and you can hire them back to replace the.NET guys you lay off. What a great cycle..... Languages should be like the air, free to all. Java has plenty of problems but at least we didn't pay for them........
Making a profit is a good thing. This is what happens when making a profit becomes the ONLY thing. We even allow corporations to indoctrinate our children, in school, to the ideas and concepts that are most useful to the profiteers. Welcome to the new slavery.......
I saw this article when my sons brought it home and showed it to me (they like to see me yell at the air). Fortunately, even at 12, my boys know corporate propaganda when they see it. It's a shame the school I pay dearly for (public, of course) doesn't.
This is where home schooling comes in......
Re:Developers, developers, developers!
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CNet on WinFS
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Oh man, your KB must be sticking. Must be looking at too many porn sites with all the extra time you save using VB......... (NOT!!!!)
Re:Developers, developers, developers!
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CNet on WinFS
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I've been working in my parents basement too long! My ass is no longer structured!!
Of course working from home on my own schedule and making enough money to buy M$ scripters (not really a programmer if you work for Mr. Bill) by the boatload ain't so bad! Maybe you should try learning a little about what you try to do for a living and we'll all be better off. Then again, after you've spent years of writing crap I get called in to write a real program (for a really nice paycheck) so please, go ahead and keep VBing away!!!!
That's funny. I've read "The Code Book" and "History of Pi" and I agree with you on both counts. "The Code Book" was great! I'll have to try the other Singh book you mentioned.
Try the old Larry Niven Jerry Pournelle books like Lucifers Hammer, Footfall, A World Out Of Time, etc.. These are great stories and real page turners. Not the hardest of hard SciFi but they try not to break too many laws of physics.
Skip Mitnick's book. I paid $1.99 for it on clearance and it wasn't worth it....
I love to program but (sadly) I have to agree with your take. So few CS people concentrate on hardware and it's become a skill that's less available than programming. I started out working on hardware and loved it so much I felt that getting a CS education and learning to be a good programmer would be the best career path EHHHHH! Sorry, wrong answer. I now have a Masters in CS and a job I hate but can't leave because the pay is good. I'd be a happier person if I'd have stuck with hardware and network (ie administration) and never wasted my time becoming a good programmer. Good programming skills just don't show so they don't get you a good job.
I graduated with an MS in CiS in August (top of the class) and have yet to find a better job than the one I'm currently doing (and this one really sucks. Can you say ForTran??). The job market for IT people just plain stinks. If you're over 40 (I'm 38) you better start looking at your other skills because being a great programmer is worthless in the face of 200,000 H1B visas that will work for $35K. Management and HR have never had a clue what programmers do, much less who's good and who's bad. So the only think they have to go by is price. If I can get someone to do the job for $35K why would I pay $70K. At the same time, they never see the difference because the fact that the guy doing the job for $35K took weeks to do what the guy making $70K could do in half a day is never demonstarted because the 70K guy didn't get the job and there's no basis for comparison. What a frustrating business this is!!!
How do you go from listing doctors that perform a procedure many people consider murder, to killing doctors?? I would not pay for the services of someone that I knew committed despicable acts (say a NAMBLA member or a wife beater). If I knew my doctor was a NAMBLE member I never use his services again. However I would not kill him or condone killing him. I just would stop supporting him and his practice (get it?) with my money. No violence, just simple, peaceful passive resistance.
Preventing Google from allowing easy access to those web sites that present the pro-life point of view is an attack on free speech and should be condemed
Re:with that attitude - enjoy unemployment
on
Feature:Geek Jobs
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But I find the derogatory attitude of programmers to engineers and vice-versa really annoying. They are both trained to be specialists.
I agree completely. We're all professionals with our various strengths and weaknesses. I know I beat on the engineers pretty good but they've got to accept CIS for what it is, a young science that has all the challenges and abilities that engineering has. We're different but deserve the same respect.
Re:with that attitude - enjoy unemployment
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Feature:Geek Jobs
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I began my professional life as an electrical engineer and let me tell ya, EE's (especially today) depend on CAD software as much or more than any other type of engineer. I agree that it's a symbiotic relationship but I get really tired of my profession (computer science) being considered pseudo engineering/science. I work mostly with civil engineers and they seem to have the biggest chip on their shoulder. I think they're, sort of, (now don't everyone flame me at once) the bottom of the bowl as far as engineers go and they seem to be a little overly sensitive about it. Most of them can't do manually what the software I create and maintain does automatically and yet they really look down their noses at IS. Rant, rant, rant... sorry bad day.....
Re:with that attitude - enjoy unemployment
on
Feature:Geek Jobs
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· Score: 1
Engineers are just guys who couldn't handle the computer science curriculum. Without the code we create most of you wouldn't even be able to handle the modern engineering curriculum. I used to have respect for engineers until I started working with them. They hate CIS guys because they can't understand what we do, why we make more than them, and why they have to come to use to create the software that allows them to call themselves engineers. What a joke... Give me the good old days when being an engineer didn't just mean you knew how to run CAD software.
Re:with that attitude - enjoy unemployment
on
Feature:Geek Jobs
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· Score: 1
"ATTITUDE" is never a good thing. Arrogance just makes for a difficult employee. Sure, there are some geniuses out there, but usually there're the ones with NO (0, NULL, nada) attitude. I've been a professional programmer for about 10 years now and if you took away all the "ATTITUDE" I have to deal with (Vs good computer science) my life would be a lot more fun, productive, happy....
Self confidence is good but "ATTITUDE" is just a false cover for the incompetent.
I've often contemplated the problem of being at the mercy of far less educated (and usually far less intelligent) persons. The question is when will the computer science community wake up and start the struggle for more control of our working conditions. How many of you are managed by a person who could no more judge the quality of your work than see through lead. What we need is a professional society like the AMA ( American Medical Assoc. ) for doctors. An agency that protects or professional integrity through peer review, while at the same time makes demands of those whom we work for to insure certain standards. We are well paid (for the most part) and well educated, now lets start taking the control we need to protect our industry and our lively hoods.
Slashdot Mirror
"Besides, use
Oh sure, and when M$ decides that they need to sell yet another language you can write, whatever, again in WinFX. Maybe all those VB programmers that were layed off because of
I doubt that Stots has a monopoly on the dove
tail jig marget. Buy from someone else and
tell all your friends to the same.
They're not MS, don't put up with similar
behavior.
Making a profit is a good thing. This is what
happens when making a profit becomes the ONLY
thing. We even allow corporations to indoctrinate
our children, in school, to the ideas and concepts
that are most useful to the profiteers. Welcome
to the new slavery.......
I saw this article when my sons brought it home
and showed it to me (they like to see me yell
at the air). Fortunately, even at 12, my boys
know corporate propaganda when they see it. It's
a shame the school I pay dearly for (public,
of course) doesn't.
This is where home schooling comes in......
Oh man, your KB must be sticking. Must be looking at too many porn sites with all the extra time you save using VB......... (NOT!!!!)
I've been working in my parents basement too long! My ass is no longer structured!!
Of course working from home on my own schedule and making enough money to buy M$ scripters (not really a programmer if you work for Mr. Bill) by the boatload ain't so bad! Maybe you should try learning a little about what you try to do for a living and we'll all be better off. Then again, after you've spent years of writing crap I get called in to write a real program (for a really nice paycheck) so please, go ahead and keep VBing away!!!!
That's funny. I've read "The Code Book" and
"History of Pi" and I agree with you on both
counts. "The Code Book" was great! I'll have
to try the other Singh book you mentioned.
Thanks,
Try the old Larry Niven Jerry Pournelle books like
Lucifers Hammer, Footfall, A World Out Of Time,
etc.. These are great stories and real page
turners. Not the hardest of hard SciFi but they
try not to break too many laws of physics.
Skip Mitnick's book. I paid $1.99 for it on clearance and it wasn't worth it....
I love to program but (sadly) I have to agree with your take. So few CS people concentrate on hardware and it's become a skill that's less available than programming. I started out working on hardware and loved it so much I felt that getting a CS education and learning to be a good programmer would be the best career path EHHHHH! Sorry, wrong answer. I now have a Masters in CS and a job I hate but can't leave because the pay is good. I'd be a happier person if I'd have stuck with hardware and network (ie administration) and never wasted my time becoming a good programmer. Good programming skills just don't show so they don't get you a good job.
I graduated with an MS in CiS in August (top of the class) and have yet to find a better job than the one I'm currently doing (and this one really sucks. Can you say ForTran??). The job market for IT people just plain stinks. If you're over 40 (I'm 38) you better start looking at your other skills because being a great programmer is worthless in the face of 200,000 H1B visas that will work for $35K. Management and HR have never had a clue what programmers do, much less who's good and who's bad. So the only think they have to go by is price. If I can get someone to do the job for $35K why would I pay $70K. At the same time, they never see the difference because the fact that the guy doing the job for $35K took weeks to do what the guy making $70K could do in half a day is never demonstarted because the 70K guy didn't get the job and there's no basis for comparison. What a frustrating business this is!!!
How do you go from listing doctors that perform a procedure many people consider murder, to killing doctors?? I would not pay for the services of someone that I knew committed despicable acts (say a NAMBLA member or a wife beater). If I knew my doctor was a NAMBLE member I never use his services again. However I would not kill him or condone killing him. I just would stop supporting him and his practice (get it?) with my money. No violence, just simple, peaceful passive resistance.
Preventing Google from allowing easy access to those web sites that present the pro-life point of view is an attack on free speech and should be condemed
But I find the derogatory attitude of programmers to
engineers and vice-versa really annoying. They are both trained to be specialists.
I agree completely. We're all professionals with our various strengths and weaknesses. I know I beat on the engineers pretty good but they've got to accept CIS for what it is, a young science that has all the challenges and abilities that engineering has. We're different but deserve the same respect.
I began my professional life as an electrical engineer and let me tell ya, EE's (especially today) depend on CAD software as much or more than any other type of engineer. I agree that it's a symbiotic relationship but I get really tired of my profession (computer science) being considered pseudo engineering/science. I work mostly with civil engineers and they seem to have the biggest chip on their shoulder. I think they're, sort of, (now don't everyone flame me at once) the bottom of the bowl as far as engineers go and they seem to be a little overly sensitive about it. Most of them can't do manually what the software I create and maintain does automatically and yet they really look down their noses at IS. Rant, rant, rant...
sorry bad day.....
Engineers are just guys who couldn't handle the computer science curriculum. Without the code we create most of you wouldn't even be able to handle the modern engineering curriculum. I used to have respect for engineers until I started working with them. They hate CIS guys because they can't understand what we do, why we make more than them, and why they have to come to use to create the software that allows them to call themselves engineers. What a joke... Give me the good old days when being an engineer didn't just mean you knew how to run CAD software.
"ATTITUDE" is never a good thing. Arrogance just makes for a difficult employee. Sure, there are some geniuses out there, but usually there're the ones with NO (0, NULL, nada) attitude. I've been a professional programmer for about 10 years now and if you took away all the "ATTITUDE" I have to deal with (Vs good computer science) my life would be a lot more fun, productive, happy....
Self confidence is good but "ATTITUDE" is just a false cover for the incompetent.
I've often contemplated the problem of being at the mercy of far less educated (and usually far less intelligent) persons. The question is when will the computer science community wake up and start the struggle for more control of our working conditions. How many of you are managed by a person who could no more judge the quality of your work than see through lead. What we need is a professional society like the AMA ( American Medical Assoc. ) for doctors. An agency that protects or professional integrity through peer review, while at the same time makes demands of those whom we work for to insure certain standards. We are well paid (for the most part) and well educated, now lets start taking the control we need to protect our industry and our lively hoods.