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MPAA School Propaganda Program Examined
Anonymous Coward copies-and-pastes: "'As part of its campaign to thwart online music and movie piracy, Hollywood is now reaching into school classrooms with a program that denounces file-sharing and offers prizes for students and teachers who spread the word about Internet theft. The Motion Picture Association of America paid $100,000 to deliver its anti-piracy message to 900,000 students nationwide in grades 5-9 over the next two years, according to Junior Achievement Inc., which is implementing the program using volunteer teachers from the business sector." Only $100,000 to advertise to 900,000 students? What a deal! We mentioned this earlier.
offering money to kids who turn other kids in...
"Rat on your friends, redeem valuable prizes!"
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
And we all know how much THAT works.
At least taxpayers aren't paying for it.
Anytime you tell a kid that something's bad, their first instinct is to go investigate it. After listening to the **AA's lectures, they'll immediately go home and log on the net to see what this "Kazaa" thing is.
So let's start a group advocating p2p.. oh i'm on slashdot...
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
remember when Ronald Reagon first started that war on drugs that even rewarded children for snitching on their parents...
even if you had a little pot in the home it was like you were an axe murderer...
now children, if your mommy and daddy have kazaa on their computer you be sure to tell us so we can sue the hell out of them and\or put them behind bars where they belong...
From the article:
"If you haven't paid for it, you've stolen it."
I honestly hope that this program has a more complex take on IP than this. I can easily think of many, many things on line that can be obtained for free, legally. (the entire contents of sourceforge comes to mind.) IP law is phenomenally complicated and cannot be boiled down to simple slogans and sound bytes.
Let's make a difference
This reminds me of one of my favorite books, 'A Brave New World'. :-)
Program the kids while they are young and by the time they are adolescents they may think copying music (not stealing
is as bad as physically stealing from a store. I wonder if someday some kid will be
like "Copying music is worst than stealing cars"
Help pay for my wedding! Go to my kickass website
That's a lot of bucks to produce something no one will listen to. I wonder if it will get pirated and traded on Kazaa just for fun? :)
I don't see what all the fuss is. The artists live in multimillion dollar mansions, the execs have a perpetual license to print money, and they're still complaining about a little file swapping. Maybe if these people didn't flaunt their immense wealth so much, people might take them seriously. Sorry, but I don't have a different Mercedes for every day of the week.
I am going to stop my email-marketing business and going to pay a million to the government to let me teach students why a large penis is important in their life.And if they dont want that, ill teach them how to meet naked teens desperate to talk to them. And if they want alternatives, ill teach 'em how to put a wireless camera to good use.
If RIAA plan is legit, so is mine.
.ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
They already know more about Kazaa, filesharing, and the Internet than most adults.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
My name is Goody Walters and I accuse little Billy Smith of file sharing! Burn him!
Children need to learn that Downloading Copyrighted material illegaly is against the law and can cause problems for their families if they are caught.
I would however direct the kids to other sources of music (like magnatunes, etc.)
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
telletubbie, and now the damn RIAA is brainwashing our kids! And people wonder what's wrong with this country!
We don't need the RIAA in schools, we need the tossed salad man in schools!
~ now you know
Why should any business or company be allowed to advertise in school, regardless of what their message is.
Besides what are they teaching the kids, that it doesn't matter if you make a load of worthless crap aslong as you have lawyers to back you up? yea great.
God forbid that they actually teach the students a bit about the law and how the gov't is f'ckin everyone over these days..
The schools teach revisionist history.. the schools teach idiocy..
Students are no longer taught to think for themselves, infact it's discouraged.. how dare you question the couse material layed out infront of you.
If schools taught important things, like how debt works and how to balance a checkbook, and why learning is not only fun, but often rewarding, and how the process of invention works.. this world would be a lot better off..
but no.. we're taught MS clicker training, while the convience of MC D's and tacohell on our student visa and now revisionist corporate law..
Where's my pitchfork.. i smell a revolution comin to North America soon..
Andrew Irgens-Moller, 14, buried his head into a backpack on his desk and rolled his eyes as the guest teacher warned of computer viruses and hackers that could take control of a user's desktop via file-sharing programs. He objected that antivirus software could scan downloaded files and only sophisticated hackers could pull off the remote desktop computer takeover.
Then the teacher cut him off.
These are brainwashing tactics... It is downright scary that these "guest teachers" are even allowed to spread such FUD. If they want to move young kids away from filesharing, try at least to feed them with false information.
"Your computer can be taken over at the minute you install Kazaa"
Am I the only one who thinks that $100,000 could be used better to actually produce something valuable? I know that it is nothing to /.*AA/ as it is money they get for every downloaded MP3 per person but come on, for everyone outside of /.*AA/ it's a lot of cache. I know great movies with budgets lower than that, for crying out loud.
Of course one has to wonder whether they are planning their "anti-piracy message" to win Academy Award for best fiction though... But let's be serious.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
as my dad said.
I bought all the beatles albums on vinyl.
Some many times because they scratch easy.
I bought all the albums on cassette.
I bought all the albums on CD and some many times because they scartch easy.
When do I get to listen to them whenever I want?
Schools are really looking to undermine their authority. This sounds like the same tactics that are used with the drug war; emphasize the speculated risk that the user faces (downloading a virus, having flashbacks with LSD).
"eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" Wendell
Send them to re-education camps!! Bribing teachers to teach an agenda of the MPAA should be illegal. In fact I bet it is, but the MPAA is "above the law."
-Seriv
I'm going to have him issue an EULA with it. Then, if the RIAA trys to copy, publish, loan, or in any way make use of it, I'll let my lawyers have at 'em.
Wolverines!
It does. I still remember sixth grade, where we had to do all this worthless garbage. At the end of the year, my class all got DARE shirts and had to sing in the school auditorium about how drugs were stupid, etc, to an audience of OUR PARENTS! However, I convenietly "forgot" to tell my parents about the assembly, and missed the whole thing. Oh well.
Seriously, DARE is completely worthless garbage. I remember a study done in 1995-1996 I think, that showed DARE didn't work.
By the way, since the MPAA and RIAA are going into classrooms, is there a chance we can build our own lesson plan and go into classrooms?
Common misconception.
"If it's illegal in America, host it in Uzbekistan," snapped the 14-year-old.
I could be wrong. I'm always wrong...
This is nothing new. Hopefully they will make a video as enertaining as the classic 80's "Dont Copy that Floppy"!
They could offer cash rewards to students who will turn in their parents for sharing. It would hardly take any effort at this point to just extended it a little bit further right? I mean we're so close to clamping down on these thieves and liars.
Or how about organizing youth anti-sharing leagues. Kids could meet with business community leaders and get cool matching outfits and go around their neighborhoods clearing out the vile scum spreding the sharing disease in their neighborhood.
Sharing it terrorism right? All Christian Americans must stand united on this basic premise.
I don't get it. 100 grand is a lot of money that could be spent in better places. Based on Sally Struthers info for .85 cents a day or the price of non starbucks coffee I could be helping support a starving child in Africa. Now let's see.
.85 cents * 30 days = $25.50 or $26 a month per child.
$26 * 12 months a year = $312 a year per child
$100,000 / $312 = 320.5 children you could feed for a year with that much money!
Now I think we all see how silly the RIAA's plan is. Come on feed the starving orphans!
Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some pimpin in it
Picture it, a little more donation and..
'I pledge Aleigance to the flag, i will be a mindless sheep in the face of the giant corp's blah blah blah'
Where is the educational value in this, nowhere what so ever, why waste valuable school time in teaching this. I bet at the end of the day they dont mention anything along the lines of fair use or the right to make copies.
Kingdom of Loathing (www.kingdomofloathing.com) Addicted is me
I wonder what I would have to pay to indoctrinate the children with my beliefs at their own school.
I guess teachers can do it all they want, but at least they are accountable for their actions.
This is just the MPAA trying to get the word out to a young population that although you can find stuff for free on the web its not right to download it? Just an organization like the RIAA protecting its members.
// games in middleschool. You knew it was a little shady with "backup programs" programs like Mr.Crack man.Locksmith etc.. You knew it was wrong, but I had no money to buy games (heck I had the games to use on the school computers..)
I used to trade apple
Now however with the p2p software being more "professional" it seems to make pirating apear almost legit. Isn't that one of the arguments used by defendants in the RIAA cases (I paid for the software so why can't I download everthing I want??)
I think this has bigger implications than just what we see on the surface.. I hate to start a "slippery slope" debate but once corporations come into the schools and start teaching children morals, when does it stop?
The next thing you know Larry Flynt will be paying a few hundred thousand to deliver a message about Sex Ed and the benefits of masturbation.... speaking of which, my new issue of Hustler just came in... I'll be back in three minutes or less.
60 percent of the time, my comments are right everytime.
He turned me into a pauper!
I got better.
Money for nothing, pix for free
Could the catholic church put a morals class into schools?
So why can MPAA?
They tried high schoolers, but they were too savvy. Now they are targeting 5-9th graders. Our students have limited time to learn more important things. Too many cannot read and add, they need to spend time on this? If anywhere it should be part of a 11-12th grade business law class. But then the kids would know too much to be fooled.
With the average volunteer who might want to help kids in the local school districts learn to read or to operate a computer. Schools would require such a person to navigate a bureaucratic maze for weeks.
But for $100,000, they'll gladly put the taxpayer-funded curriculum on hold for the day and allow a live advertisement for the latest feature film to kids who can't read or construct a complete sentence. Incredible.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
There aren't enough tossed salad man references in today's media.
I for one welcome our new Salad Tossing Overlords, err uh... underlords!!
You decide.
Why don't they treat the *real* problem. As most of us know, they would be better teaching about the dangers of being a script kiddie than stealing movies. You can do a whole lot more harm with the later. Do we really want another So.Big?
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
Apparently music piracy is gaining ground and its prevention is just as important as keeping kids off drugs. :-P'''
(At the moment, I can't even get the DARE website to pull up.)
I'm willing to bet that kids now-a-days hear and read more about how drugs are OK for you (Viagara, penis enlargement, muscle augmentation, sex pheromones, etc...) than music piracy.
Karma: NaN
Why dont' the state BOR's or any superindendents step up and say "not in our schools!"?? This has no actual educational merit whatsoever, and should not set foot inside any schools: public, private, or higher learning. It's like Coke coming in and preaching that "drinking Pepsi destroys our employee's way of life, because you're using another product". In the end it's just another corporation trying to save it's own ass. If they just put the money towards education in general (so they can get good jobs), or somehow helping the economy, maybe kids could AFFORD to buy their products instead of stealing them. Ok, I'll stop ranting now.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Call the video 'Kazaa Madness' Mod up
Hilarious. Did the devil make you write your name in blood in his book? :)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
"For only 9 cents a child, you can reach America's youth and tell them the truth about video Piracy and how it hurts the movie industry, the American economy, and leads to severe tooth decay."
This sounds like USA is slowly getting there too.
"Two beers or not two beers. That's the question." -- Shakesbeer
"Only $100,000 to advertise to 900,000 students? What a deal!" This quote brought to you by the Tobacco industry.
"If you haven't paid for it, you've stolen it."
Conversely, that means if I paid for it, I OWN it. Not a license of it, not some right to it, but OWN it. Now I can copy, broadcast, whatever. If the RIAA is going to boil things down, so will I. Time to give all those mp3's I OWN to my friends.
Gee, indoctrination of the young. What a novel concept.
If only ol' Joe had thought of this, we might have avoided the infiltration of North American society by the Red Menace that is now, through rampant piracy, undermining the very capit^H^H^H^H^Hdemocracy which we hold dear.
*sigh*
-- tarnish
All your mind are belong to us.
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
this is amazing -- what ever happened to those wonderful things called "rights"? i think they got purged. these are truly soviet-esque tactics. has anyone seen Joe Stalin wandering around the MPAA or RIAA offices?
mmm....caffeine....
If they passed out pamphlets to the students, at least they won't be able to read them.
"Why Can't Johnny Read ?"
--- Because the teachers spend more time trying to brainwash and subdue the little brats than actually teaching them perhaps ?
Lovely...
Do any lawyers think there might be a case for equal time/access ? Send Linus or RMS around to teach kids for a while...
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
Why do you insist on calling it socialistic? I don't see how the Bush administration and the Republican congress is socialistic. Now if you mean dictatorial, I'm with you. If you want to say fascistic I'm still agreeing with you. But what would lead you to suggest that the term "socialistic" has any relevance here? Are you a brainwashed Rush Limbaugh fan or what? How can you think your voice will matter when you speak nonsense.
Sure, there have been some bad examples of socialism, but calling what's going on in America today socialistic is a bizarre instance of doublespeak that seems to fit right in with the things you supposely are against.
That comment made me laugh so hard my sides hurt now :)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
This makes no F*cking sense. This is $100,000 they could have spent suing their customers. These kids are in elementary school, what's the point? Yeah they're going to download stuff, it's not like they can get jobs. All this is doing is telling kids to be whinier, and greying the line between theft and ownership for them. You think we've got clepto's now, just wait a few years for these kids to hit high school. They think they've been stealing for years, you think they're going to pay for that soda?
"The Motion Picture Association of America paid $100,000 to deliver its anti-piracy message to 900,000 students nationwide in grades 5-9 over the next two years"
And this is going to make an impact... how? Most kids at that age are smart enough to know when they are being jacked, even if they didn't, they would only be under the spell until the "prizes" ran out. If the MPAA went to 1st graders, prizes would probably reel them in without question. The problem with that is 1st graders, assuming they are computer literate, do not go downloading massive quantities of MP3s or DivX encoded movies.
<paranoid_rant>
Now if you ask me, the real goal for the MPAA in doing this is to trick the children into admitting they have downloaded a movie or two before and then threaten to sue their parents for everything they've got... To avoid litigation, the parents can agree to have the child stop using the computer altogether, and give him a calculator to play with instead.
</paranoid_rant>
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
Underpaid volunteer teachers to help the most greedy industry in the world - news at eleven!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Are the teachers from Junior Achievement? What is the selection process? I would love to do this (to be one of the educators). Since I have the Macintosh contracts with the majority of the Upstate SC schools and I actually see merit in filesharing technology, I believe I would be a good candidate. I would like to promote the online (pay for) services like the iTunes Music Store.
My suggestion: that they give these "teachers" gift certificates to the iTunes Store, Napster, Dell Music, etc.
Anyone from any of these services or that feel philanthropic want to donate some tunes via GC?
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
I can certainly see the reasoning behind this, after all kazaa has become so prevalent among kids that it is necessary to teach them about copyright law, etc. Remember the 12 year old girl sued by the RIAA? She thought what she was doing was legal because she'd paid $30 to kazaa gold. However, this clumsy, idiotic attempt at "educating" kids is downright wrong. If you're going to explain complicated legal issues to kids you should have people who know what they're talking about do it, not your average teachers and certainly not industry trade groups. And making kids write essays about how filesharing is evil does nothing except extol the virtues of bullshitting your way through life 'cause someone told you to. This system IS downright soviet.
Didnt the communists do this during the Korean war with American prisoners? Make them write essays on how the US is corrupt and they get rewarded in return, however the ultimate goal was to get the POW to write it down on paper, so they never take back what they wrote.
First thing you have to do is stop thinking in terms of money. "If only I had tons of money" is just silly - the Government in conjunction with the Federal Reserve (a private company!) controls your money. No matter how rich you get within their system, they can just print more fiat money and outbid you.
The FIRST thing a rebellion should do is abandon the currency of the oppressors and establish their own, or do without while the organisation is small enough to get by on informal agreements.
Fundamentally the Republican-Democrat axis is about the distribution of wealth. That's orthogonal to social liberalism and social conservatism.
You can be very pro-business and still believe in individual's right to smoke pot or engage in wild homosexual consensual ass-pounding romps. On the other hand, you may lean to the left when it comes to money and believe at the same time that gay sex is an aberration or that any use of drugs weakens the society.
The social conservatives were pushed back in the 1960s and 1970s, but they are making a strong comeback - unfortunately.
This is really bad. Not so much because the MPAA is going to schools to deliver it's particular propaganda. But because ANY group from private industry can buy access to school kids.
What's next? Representatives from the Brokerage industry going to grade schools to preach the virtues of buying stock? Fast food evangelists marching freely through classrooms brainwashing kids to eat only Happy Meals.
The MPAA is evil. But no more evil than any other industry group that will push it's own profits at the expense of all else. We are truely losing our integrity as a society if we let any of them into our schools.
I participated in JA when I was in high school, all those years ago; I was actually about to approach them locally and start participating as a volunteer. Frickin' forget THAT now. What are they thinking, acting as a forum where organizations can pay to disseminate information for their agendas?
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Granted the school visits and suing of small-fish individuals (like the 12 y.o. girl from the 'jects) are out of hand, but OTOH I think the the slanted /. approach of making these industry groups look like wackos is out of hand too. If you were a musician who had worked your way out of the gutter you'd want to be paid your fair share. The excuse that "It's all about freedom, baby, (Austin Powers, 1966)" doesn't hold water. Neither does the excuse that the artists have enough money already. Neither does the excuse that the **AA is only representing their own interests and the artists aren't getting screwed.
This isn't a troll, honest. But if copyright violation, even if a white collar/gray area crime, is going on doesn't that make it wrong?
It's too bad no one ever thought of a similar school program to talk about a real problem - CAR THEFT.
InK
details details, I was just making a joke, try the decaf for Christ's sake
~ now you know
I'm continuously surprised at the lack of respect for IP laws on /. No matter how you justify it, taking copyrighted material without paying for it is not legal. Nor should it be legal.
Does that that mean that I agree with the MPAA's or the RIAA's methods of enforcing their business model? No, of course not. I don't even agree with their business model, much less the tactics they have employed in the past year. That does not, however, entitle me to take their product without compensating them for it. I, like every other consumer in a free market, have the choice to support or not support almost any given public business. I choose not to buy music or (many) DVD's (I gotta have my LoTR and Star Wars). Instead, I support the book publishers and local radio stations. This is how a free market works. If you don't like the method in which a product is offered, and enough people agree with you, then an alternate method will evolve. ITunes is a perfect example.
Would OSDN be very happy about a mirror site to slashdot that offered the same material minus the adds that are funding its existence? What about the local movie theatre if people were sneaking into the theatre? There would be no physical property loss, and those who "bypassed" the ticket booth may have never seen the film if they couldn't do so for free, but it is still illegal!
As much as the free software initiative and independent developers are supported here for the ethical stance taken, I would hope that those who dwell here will also see the direct correlation to ethics in all other areas of business, including IP and P2P issues.
If you would like to be a leader with a large following...drive slowly down a windy two-lane road
This might actually be a good investment..
Ok, $100,000 is a lot of money, but you must also consider that when the RIAA sues someone its often for $150,000 per song. (the maximum the law allows)
This means that they just have to stop 1 kid from sharing 1 song and.... Profit!
Moe: It's not that bad. And they let you keep the little piece they cut out.
[holds up a jar with a bit of brain floating in it]
Moe: Hi there! Hi there little fella!
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
We are also currently educating kids about the dangers of smoking and drinking. Yeah that reall works... just look around any college campus and you'll see how effective this 'education' was. The MPAA will be the same. They forget that when your an adolescent the cool things are all illegal. Its about rebeling agaisnt authority. This education will backfire in the MPAA's face. The only question is 'what's next?' redecucation 'camps' for those who copy music anyway?
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Aside from the issues surrounding copyright infringement, there's the worrying situation that education is being controlled by those able to bribe teachers and schools.
Given that it seems that the material presented can be entirely one-sided, and doesn't have to be accurate (they should really go back to school themselves and learn what "theft" and "stealing" really mean) - imagine if a Christian fundamentalist group started bribing teachers to teach the story of genesis in science lessons, or to not teach evolution?
Though if the pupils are allowed to argue back rather than being lectured without a chance to respond, as the article seems to suggest, then at least there is some hope.
Doh, what a fool I am, I thought this article was about the RIAA not the MPAA.. Ignore my redundant comments..
Dude, DARE makes damn good cookies, what's your problem?
Is there any other use for the smart cards that have recently been used to steal digital satellite TV? With all the lawsuits flying around about them there has to be some kind of "oh I was using it for something else" loop hole.
This is overly communistic for such an "anti"-commie country. I am reminded of how the Bush administration has gotten the brainless, mindless, unable-to-think-for-themselve zombies (Blond, Bland, Middleclass Repubs) to somehow believe that Saddam and Osama are the same people. If that's not propaganda-liscious, i don't know what it. Also, this is like catholic style brainwashing. Peace -Hiro
mmm....caffeine....
had a program like this, notice the similarities?
Yes, even Ronald Reagan as this type tactics in his emminently successful "War on Drugs". Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. Turn your friends and parents in. Good thing to be teaching kids. Try teaching them to REASON first!!!
This doesn't seem to be appropriate. What mass message is next? What if Microsoft pays big $$$ to get into a school and influence kids and their buying power. (Oh wait that happens already..) But seriously, our kids should be learning about the basic subjects, not having teachers running around carring a flag for a certain group.
I have views and belong to certain conservative groups. But there is no way I would support an organized group of teachers running around trying to 'spread the word.'
We have kids that can't even read when they get through school, and teachers are doing this?
-Teachers, Get off your soap box and go back to teaching.
-Music Industry - Ride the wave of change, or get off.
--Still waiting for that awsome sig to just leap out at me..--
Quoted from the article...
"If you haven't paid for it, you've stolen it."
Conversely, that means if I paid for it, I OWN it.
If it doesn't have four legs and a tail, it's not a dog.
Conversely, that means that if it does have four legs and a tail, it IS a dog.
See how that fails? Who do so many people try to pass themselves off as logic experts when they clearly can't construct a simple contrapositive?
Scary... life once again imitates art
"(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.
My name is Matt Foley, and I'm a motivational speaker. I share FILES and live in a VAN down by the RIVER
I pledge alligiance to the corporations of the United States of America.
And to the capitalism for which it stands.
Many greedy bastards.
Under a CEO.
With payoffs and lawsuits for all.
Vote for new mod!!! Score:-2,Imbecile
re-unbaling the pateNTdead eyecon0meter, it's easy to see whois the georgewellian fuddite softwar gangster ?pr? ?firm? hypenosys payper liesense stock markup fraud execrable.
those felonious fauxking foulcurrs should get ready to see the light.
don't forget, joining in the creator's newclear power plan, & the planet/population rescue initiative (formerly unknown as the oil for babies program) is yOUR best bet.
consult with/trust in yOUR creator... see you there.
Watch as Jack Valenti pantomimes the death of the movie industry by impaling himself on a Beowulf cluster of IBM blade servers downloading a DivX rip of "Glitter"!!
The chills... THE SPILLS!!
But, seriously, do we need another corporate influence invading our classrooms? It's bad enough that the rampant consumerism that has infected American society has opened our schools' doors to the likes of Coke, Pepsi and Channel One... Now, we need Hollywood to come in and help our children formulate thoughts on copyright issues based solely on a heavily biased unilateral viewpoint?
I would like to know what the parents' viewpoint on all of this. Although IANAP, this would make a stronger argument for homeschooling whatever children I may have in the future. At the very least, I would be able to present both sides of the issue and talk to them. This would allow my children to adopt an intelligent stance on this issue.
From the article:
Brenda Chen said she uses Kazaa at home: "I just want certain tracks from the CD, not the whole CD. It's a waste of money."
They just are NOT listening to their customers! But they certainly expect their (future?) customers to listen to them. Jefferson, Monroe, Paine, etc. are all spinning in their graves at about 10,000 RPM.
If it's illegal in America, host it in Uzbekistan," snapped the 14-year-old.
The kids know its B.S. Just like back when I was in school and the D.A.R.E program was out with the whole "Drugs are Bad m'kay" movement. Yes heavy narcotic use is bad and awareness education serves its purpose, but even then it wasn't terribly effective. Even the "good" kids smoked dope when they got to High School. Come to think of it, especially the good kids.
I trust that junior high kids are by and large savvy enough to recognize B.S., and the "Bad apples" will go download stuff just because they aren't supposed to.
No, we don't have a Gulag yet. But having individuals being threatened with financial ruin for "dealing" a .99 song to others comes pretty close.
The day is fast coming when the almight buck rules everything. The West appears to be losing all that it learned from the Enlightment about Truth, Beauty, Liberty, Fraternity, Equality. No we never quite lived up to those ideals but we always seemed to be heading in the right direction. Lately, it looks like we're headed backward into a time when raw, naked power is the only thing that matters and is the only virtue to be admired.
Am I overreacting? I hope so, for our sake.
<a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>
> There's still hope. Anyone find it sad that Uzebekistan is perceived as having more freedoms? (even if in that "wild-west sense")
I thought you knew better dont copy that movie!
It's called thievin, stealin, like takin it off the shelf and then walkin out the door!
Dont.. dont.. dont, dont copy that, dont.. dont.. dont.. dont copy that...
Yes, and everyone knows that Columbus proved the Earth is round and the Pilgrims were just normal people seeking freedom from evil repressive governments in Europe.
Revolution? Not bloody likely. You have to know that you've been disinformed to be angry (but then those who know don't seem to care much anyway, so it's none the better).
GL
Making a profit is a good thing. This is what
happens when making a profit becomes the ONLY
thing. We even allow corporations to indoctrinate
our children, in school, to the ideas and concepts
that are most useful to the profiteers. Welcome
to the new slavery.......
I saw this article when my sons brought it home
and showed it to me (they like to see me yell
at the air). Fortunately, even at 12, my boys
know corporate propaganda when they see it. It's
a shame the school I pay dearly for (public,
of course) doesn't.
This is where home schooling comes in......
You know, wouldn't it be nice to spend the money to educate kids on something else which might be a little more important, like saving their lives by not smoking. Or maybe we could teach our kids that they shouldn't eat a whole XL tub of popcorn with extra butter every time they see a movie, or else they'll become a fat-ass just like mom and dad. I'm glad the MPAA has plenty of money, which it got from all these kids parents who bought every stupid Disney movie that came out for these same kids. Now the MPAA turns around and shits on its loyal customers by treating all of them like criminals. It will be interesting when the public as a whole finally starts feely betrayed by the MPAA and people stop watching movies just like they've already stopped buying CD's. Then the MPAA will have to go to the governement to try to get a law passed requiring every man, woman, and child to see a certain number of movies a year. You'll have to fill your quota for the good of everyone so that the motion picture industry can continue selling to you an over-priced and vacuous product. It's kind of like the telemarketing industry, we can't afford to let it die or else we'll lose all those "quality" jobs.
1. Buy laws to make sure public school system is desperate for cash.
2. Dangle a little money in front of said schools in return for implementing "New Education Marketing Campaign"
3. PROFIT!!!
Plane tickets to San Francisco: $500
Cost to print out promotional flyers: $400
Salary for small team of RIAA evangelizers for traveling road show: $99,100
Having a 14-year-old say they'll host media in Uzbekistan to circumvent unfair RIAA copying laws?
This space for rent.
"Only $100,000 to advertise to 900,000 students? What a deal!"
;o]
that's like, 90 cents? how much are Apple iTunes downloads?
oh yeah. and they thought it couldn't work. RIAA with a funny marketing procedure, and a business plan that advocates losing money eh.
you *know* it's working; one of your friends has raised hell concern because you share music.
"no, it's okay to download music, just make sure you don't share anything with anyone"
zuh zuh. just don't sue me, i guess.
SIGERR: laziness exceeds quota
"... tell them the truth about video Piracy and how it ... leads to severe tooth decay."
Tooth decay? What about blindness and hairy palms?
GL
remember that Simpsons episode where the school was bought by a corporation that used the kids as market research to design a toy?
"Funzo! Funzo!! FUZNO!! If you don't have Funzo, you're nothing!"
I must say I'm not happy that an corporation can have the ability to inject their views through the public school systems. Reguardless of the moral and/or legal messages they have, corporations should not more influence on children in public school than organized religion.
Hopefully some of the more intelligent students will see that it is propaganda and organize against this. If enough of them agree and get there parents involved then is should be possible to get this kicked out of the schools.
Atha, Pete
Vice President
Board Development & Planning Support
patha@ja.org
(360) 782-1512
Godsey, Tami
Director-Accreditation and Best Practices
tgodsey@ja.org
(719) 540-6285
Holladay, Jack
National Service Consultant
jholladay@ja.org
(719) 471-2172
McDougall, John
Regional Vice President -- Eastern Region
jmcdougall@ja.org
(804) 883-7680
Rose, Irene
Regional Vice President -- Western Region
irose@ja.org
(719) 540-6291
Wendt, Linda
Regional Vice President -- Midwestern Region
lwendt@ja.org
(269) 721-4232
Bartner, Howard
Regional Vice President -- Southern Region
hbartner@ja.org
(719) 540-6282
Willis, Lee Director -- Volunteer Alliances
lwillis@ja.org
(719) 540-6283
Common sense.
Ehhhhhxcellent! You can also find more ed-related addresses at
http://www.ja.org/near/near_nat_staff_ed.shtml [ja.org]
That is, until it comes time to pay the musicians....
Customers: Shop wisely. You are voting with your dollars. If you accept draconian DRM, you will NEVER get your freedom back. You must protect your individual rights by choosing the best product and not buying based solely on emotionally exciting advertising hype or getting pushed around by impotent corporate shortcuts to profitability.
Corporations: Adapt to the changing environment as you have always done. Listen to the customers and do everything possible to keep these informed consumers on your side. Search for innovative ways to improve your product, streamline your processes, and still make a REASONABLE amount of money. Stay alive to serve the customers tomorrow.
Here's a quick rundown of some of the main gripes consumers have with big media products today:
Things Wrong with Movies: Overpriced movies to match the overpriced snacks, Ben Affleck and J-Lo, crappy plots (which also may fall under the Ben Affleck category), $20+ million dollar salaries for actors which leads to increased ticket prices, irritating and useless copy-protection on DVDs, etc.
Things Wrong with Music: Overpriced CDs, Britney Spears, not enough money given to the artists, Britney Spears, generic one-hit wonder boy bands pushed like a cheap drug, Britney Spears, general refusal to adapt to the internet (thank Apple for what innovation there is there), etc.
Things Wrong with Satellite: Well, nothing.... We're just stealing that because we can.
The funny thing was that the music and video industries agreed to this before the advent of high-compression, low-loss technologies (mp3, divx, mpeg), and cheap equipment/media, so they figured it would be cheaper for people to buy the original rather than copy (in 1991 a single-spead cd reader cost $700, a burner was $5K-$7K, and blank media were $30 to $50 a disk).
So, in essence, they agreed to the tariffs as compensation for possible copyright infringement that they never dreamed would actually happen - it was just supposed to be an additional revenue stream from companies using burners to back up data "just in case" someone decided to copy a movie, song cd, etc.
Just another example of technology coming back and biting them in the ass :-)
It seems to me that $100,000 is really a lot of money. Pirates' propaganda is free. As are their high-quality movies, software, and music. Some things don't need advertising, like drugs and piracy, and no matter what their argument is, it's not going to work if it's not based in reality. The "all drugs are the same and they'll all kill you" argument's certainly effective, as will be the "all the record/music companies want to do is foster artists' creativity, and bring you the wonderful colors that brighten up your miserable lives, but you just won't let us. Please, let us love you!" argument that the entertainment industry is trying to sell us. The sarcasm is dripping. Help, I've got a sarcasm drip!
I know exactly what I would wear that day
Outdoor storage sheds and pet kennels
might work.
be careful with your labels.
take out the insane dictators, & it's just folks working to get along.
then stop supporting them. Stop buying the movies. Stop stealing the movies. Ignore them.
i've found that acid fvcked me up more than *anything* else. in a kind of good way, mind...
You're right, the feds don't fund very much k-12 education, but they do mandate many of the standards. Ever heard of No Child Left Behind? They also cut funding for other state programs, which has a ripple effect for education.
From a (producer focused) economic perspective, it is. Stealing a car results in the purchase of another car from the manufacturer (whether it be through insurance or personal replacement).
You have fallen for the broken window fallacy. Suppose a baker has $300 to to buy a suit. But a vandal throws a rock through his storefornt window, and it costs $300 to replace the glass.
One might say: "while it is bad news for the baker, it is good news for the community since now the glassmaker has more work". But this is wrong.
While the glassmaker is provided a job, a job is taken away from the tailor because the baker no longer has money for the suit. So no net new jobs are created, and instead of a pane of glass and a siut, the baker only has a pane of glass. Overall, the community loses a suit.
I used to consult for a JA office, and 90% of the staff used Kazaa, Morpheus and Napster like madmen. Some Staffers had GIGs of pirated music and movies. I wonder how they are doing now...
There is somewhat of a difference between the school allowing coke machines on their property and letting the MPAA use classrooms as a Soapbox. If the schools allowed Pepsi to come in and explain why carbonated beverages are part of a healty diet, that would be a better analogy. I wouldn't be suprised if this does actually happen -- as someone else said, schools today will do anything for a buck.
That having been said -- $100,000 for 900k students? For the love of god, jack up the prices schools!
At any rate, it's been shown time and time again that excessive advertising makes it extremely ineffective (banner ads anyone?). I have faith that the youth of America will see through this pathetic ploy and it will just turn out to be a big waste on (the MPAA's) money. Come on schools -- just jack up the $ / student rate!
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
Here's thinking the MPAA's articles in "Time for Kids" -- I assume that article my kids got was spawned by this cash? -- will have the same effect. I have two ten-year-olds, they have no idea what P2P systems are, but after reading the article they asked. Gave me a chance to walk through a few sides of the moral situation.
(The Time for Kids article did have a counterpoint sidebar, incidentally. Teachers, some teachers, won't put up with total proganda in the classroom.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Somewhere between the in-school education programs, bumper stickers and kids reporting their parents to the authorities, the program grew more and more tiresome while legalised pot initiatives grew more interesting and popular. Maybe the Powers That Be can go back to work with ... howzabout "Digital Access Rights Education?"
Maybe not.
"Dare To Download" makes for a better bumper sticker.
When informed that downloading movies is illegal, the reaction of most students was: "Cool! You can download movies?"
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Just like the situation with the RIAA spreading its propaganda in schools, I do not wish my childern to be subjected to this. Why is it ok for coperate entities to buy their ways into schools and spread their views to impressionable minds? Sorry MPAA/RIAA, this isnt about doing drugs or anything like that, its about you losing your iron grip on the current model of movie/music distro and you are afraid that you will finally lose it.
I will be keeping my childern out of school on the days that any coperate entity will be spewing their propaganda to my childern.
"For less than the price of a cup of coffee, you too can help a child learn the value of copyright..." when the MPAA turns to the viewers for funding.
For the most part, you can take out "studios" and put in "Corporate America" and be completely accurate.
But look for a moment at the underlying cause. Those suits are money-men. They're connected - to money. They know - money. Unfortunately they head - studios, car companies, technology companies, etc.
Time was when a car man ran the car company. So even if he made a stupid move or two, (Edsel) he didn't make too many, and there was another car man waiting to replace him. Today it's a money man, and he doesn't understand cars, doesn't have cars in his blood. He then makes decisions that make short-term monetary sense, though in the long run not good car sense.
Apply the same procedure to studios and it becomes obvious why movies are tending toward sequals and comic book adaptations, and why the major labels are having a hard time putting out good music.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
...and all the Corporate Plutocrats in the MPAA and the RIAA. Whoever said this is an idealogical battel, you hit the nail on the head.
/runs out door screaming
I will lead the revolution! Follow me.
""If you haven't paid for it, you've stolen it."
Conversely, that means if I paid for it, I OWN it"
no, conversely that means if you have not stolen it you have paid for it; quite a difference. IE, you can still pay for something and not own it, a la licensing.
pardon spelling, etc.
$100,000 / 900,000 children = .11 dollars/child
It may not sound like much, but that extra two cents adds up to buying a lot of hohos for miss Struthers.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
Sex and drugs as a focus point if teen rebellion?
The cool/bad kids wont be doing drugs or boinking one another but learning fow to work bit torrent and figuring out how to set up their own file sharing networks.
just a thought
Hopefully this will work about as well as the "Just Say No" and D.A.R.E. programs that have been tried in the past.
There should be no place in school for industry-sponsored propaganda, whether it is true or not. I don't agree with copyright infringement, but removing our fair use rights is worse than allowing some level of piracy. The RIAA/MPAA are trying to outlaw fair use as well as simply cutting down on piracy, and the end result is that both messages are lost on anyone who wants to keep fair use.
If I was a teacher, I'd warm-up the class with some fair use laws, and dispell some of the FUD before the industry rep came into the classroom. If I had a child who was about to attend this, I'd give him/her the option of staying home from school that day, or I'd provide him/her with some ammunition to counter the claims that are made. Maybe convince the kid to try to get the part of the "artist" in the school play. "I'm an artist. I'm signed on a major label, which pays me $0.25 per album sold, but I haven't even seen that money yet because they garnish it to cover the cost of the recording studio and marketing, and also to subsidize costs from the vast majority of artists on the label who make less money than the label spends on them. I make my money from live gigs, and I use my recordings as a sort of advertisement to get people to see my live shows. Even if I didn't get paid, I'd still write music - after all, that's what I did for ten years before getting signed to a major label."
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
You aren't giving them to friends, you are copying them. And remember, giving something away isn't illegal, unless it's a woodworking jig
Copying and distribution is the issue, with allowances for fair you. In other words, despite RIAA hype, you have the rights to copy your own content (you paid for it), transfer to another medium (mp3), and I believe derive works for personal use etc. You don't have the rights to give away a duplicate... and if you give away the original you no longer have rights to any duplicates, etc.
I know when I was a child, I was taught (as mentioned) that sharing is good to do with things you own with people less fortunate than yourself. I know that comes off as sounding elitist or something, but by 'less fortunate' I simply mean they haven't yet made some purchase or gotten some good fortune bestowed upon them - not that they are unwilling or unworthy of the same.
When it comes to digital media, you can share your CD with a friend and if he/she burns a copy of it, they are in violation of copyright (probably) and have made themselves liable for a civil lawsuit. The loaner, on the other hand shared the CD in good faith for the benefit of the friend. Naturally this line gets a helluva lot blurrier when talking about Kazaa so I'm not going to get into that. Yet, the RIAA is trying to impress upon kids that even loaning the CD is bad and shouldn't be done -- at least that's my impression of their stance.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
a brainwash tax???
or some other tax for our students time? I mean, we pay to send our kids to school to get their learn on, not to be brainwashed... so this is basically advertising time! schools really ought to charge the heck out of them for the audience!
"Other bands play, but Manowar KILLS"
I mean, everyone knows that whenever adults tell kids what is "cool" and what is "not cool," they do exactly what the adults expect!
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
See how that fails?
Well done! That's one of the first things you learn in logic class. It's a common logic error, called denying the antecedent.
P.S. Wow, parent is a non-trolling, non-funny AC!
Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
Roughly the cost of a movie ticket. Coincidence?
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
I remember how sharp I was when I was a kid. I know how hard it is to tell kids *anything*
... You are paying to get your ass-kicked by little mites :)
because they always come up with the question that puts you in a fix.
Good luck MPAA/RIAA
DO NOT PANIC
It has to be the absolute worst program for kids. I went through it when I was 14, and I learned how to make a product that nobody wants (puffy cloth picture frames) and endanger myself by selling it door-to-door after school. I don't let my kids sell anything. Kids should not shill for the man.
The ad, however, was extremely poorly written, and acted. The guy who was talking about the piracy, though what he was actually saying was understandable if you REALLY thought hard about it, appeared to say that piracy wasn't hurting the industry or anyone in it.
I laughed my @ss off walking out, because I heard at least 3 conversations going on after the movie about the ad, all of which were going something like: "Whoah, dude, did they just say like, downloading movies is like, ok? Dude, whoah, that like, rules dude..."
MPAA Screwing itself?
I Laugh At Them! MUHAHAHAH! HUHAH! MAHAHAH!
*cough*
Death to Reefer Addicts.
--
...just how many people are old enough to remember this reference.
Virg
Nothing like training another generation to know what something looks like and all the proper terms to use when asking around.
:-( --- argh. Despair, I owe again.
What are you morons babbling on about calling this communistic and socilistic?
This is the height of absurdity. Clearly this is corporate fascism. Are you folks just uneducated or what? Socialism and Communism may have thier faults, but there's no link here. You're way off and the weird result is that you come off being a kind of supporter of this activity. The *AA is commie bashing and you're jumping on the bandwagon to resist them. Whats is up with that?
Anti-piracy propaganda in the schools will work about as well as telling students not to use drugs or not to have sex.
Besides, it runs counter to the latest Coca Cola propaganda, "Do what feels good."
That's the quote from the industry spokesperson at the bottom of the article. It's too bad media companies have never abided by that rule.
When you own the production and distribution system it's easy to dictate contract terms to the little people. It's easy to extort copyrights from musicians. It's easy to make them pay all the expenses out of their share of the profits. When you have them tied to 7-album contracts it's easy to shitcan them if they don't play ball. It's easy to buy legislators to write copyright laws for you. It's easy to believe you're a cut above the ordinary citizen, and that the world should revolve around you and what you want.
But that doesn't make it right, does it?
Adultry is illegal in most muslim countries,
Now suggest the Woman move to US to be with someone she loves rather that the Old man that has been foisted upon her in an arranged marriage
Still bad?
Help fight continental drift.
If anyone has seen some movies recently, I am one of those guys in the MPAA commercial. There are huge differences between the RIAA and the MPAA. To lump them to together is like lumping MicroSoft and Redhat software together, just because they sell programs. I agree that most of the contracts for the RIAA is as lucritive for the comanies as I have ever seen. Most of what people ay is true. These artists are making squat. I dont know why the dont get together and collectively go and fight the companies. If they all turned around and said they all want better treatment for everyone, I think that the compnaies would listen. Imagine if Prince, Cortny Love, and Elton John all got together and went after them? In the MPAA side of things, everyone gets paid for what they do. Stars get the biggest chunk of cash because they draw the biggest. DO you think that 'Kindergarden Cop' would have done as well if Arnie wasn't in it? Everyone knows that what they put into the movie, generally they get back. The world that we all live in is profit driven. Whether you agree or not. Its not up to me to determine the grand scheme of things. My time is worth XX an hour. Yours might be XX a week, or XXX a website. Prices for the goods that we all produce are set by the maret. No metter how many people are upset by ticket prices, I am preatty sure that all the theatres are full when The Matrix is released. Im sure that there is some places that you can go to that dont charge the full price. Our Silver City in Canada, charges us 12$ at night (14.25 with taxes). During the day before 6pm, that same movie is 8 dollars. I discovered that matinee price as i was taking my niece to see a movie one day. But there are other theatres that charge 8$ at night as well. Ask yourself if you really need to pay that much to see the chickflicks ? I would pay to see the big action movies in the Silver Cities, but not Bridges of Madison county.
They were brownies, man...
"73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
You're conveniently forgetting that in both cases, you're still benefitting from the value that the stolen item will provide you - wether it's downloaded from the internet or taken from a store is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is that you benefit from the owner's property, and the owner gets nothing. Theft of value.
I find it highly entertaining that the MPAA/RIAA often use the justification that "artist's profits are at stake". Generally speaking, when an artist signs a contract with a major record label they sign away the rights to any royalties that may be collected from the albums produced under said contract. The artist is then given a minimized percentage of the profits made from album sales.
Of course I do not have raw statistics to back this up, but I would assert that the majority of an artist's profits are coming from touring and playing live shows. The use of file sharing programs augments the exposure an artist receives. Smart artists on smaller record labels will actually post full length digital music files on their web pages so people can be privy to their music before ultimately purchasing the music or paying to see them live.
Personally, its hard to be into an artist, have any desire to purchase any of their music, or see them live if I've never heard their music before. Plus, there is nothing you will be able to download -- at least not in the near future -- that will provide the user with the experience of physically seeing the artist.
-V
It does model on 'Brave New World', but to me at least, it seems more like '1984'. Particularly where you have kids that grow up trying to accuse everyone, parents and peers especially, of "thoughtcrime" though we can easily substitute P2P filesharing for that to make it fit this model. Hell, you might even want to say they're trying to recreate the Cultural Revolution in China, well, albeit in a less bloody fashion, but same concept.
It seems almost like some kind of strange coincidence that I was reading BNW and am reading 1984 and this comes along.
Long live Big Brother and the negative utopia?
"Fair use" (yeh, I'm suuuuuure they go over that issue carefully in the schools) is expanding. The reason why so many millions are performing all that copyright violation is that the laws (or their enforcement) are wrong and they must change. No revolution is legal, and passing a law is the fastest way to create criminals.
... as long as the American Congress re-aligns patent and copyright law with the alleged, goddamn Law of the Land {tm}:
the American Constitution.
If patents and copyrights can be returned to "limited times", then We The People can return to being the entire point of all this law-making.
At any rate, their educational programs may as well try to convince children not to masturbate. The kids may feel ashamed, but they're still going to do it. Good luck getting them to stop. P2P is here to stay and the young (skilled, yet without cash) will continue to use it to get their songs, warez and pr0n.
However, I'll make the RIAA and other associations a deal: I'll stop downloading songs, warez and pr0n, and will stop (or report on) others from doing the same
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
this smacks of the Hitler youth or the children thing in China
Digital citizenship
The Starving Artist is a discussion based game where students are divided in group and shall produce a CD but then they are ripped off
Whee! Hey kids, let's play Starving Artist! It's FUN!
Students are divided into groups, in which each group 'produces' a CD. When finished, they submit their CD to local radio stations hoping it will be played, and try to get them sold in record stores, only to find out that the radio only plays material presented by a members of a certain association, and the shelf-space at the store is contractually obligated to hold only that association's material. The best they can get is the one small indie store on the bad side of town will put some copies in a cardboard box up near the register with 'indie bands' written on it in magic marker. How does this make them feel?
Then the students shop their CD to association-affiliated record labels. After repeated rejections, the students finally learn that if they want their CD heard, they have to accept a contract that pays them, at most, 4.5 cents per $18 CD sold. How does this make them feel?
Students then put up a website and let people download MP3s of their CD for free, with an online store selling 'real' packaged CDs, along with T-Shirts, posters, keychains, and other such merchandise, with all profits going directly to the students. Students calculate how many 4.5-cent CDs they'd have to sell to make the same as the $6 profit from a single CD sale on their own site, even selling at half the association's price. How does THIS make them feel?
Then they learn that the association is rigging consumer devices such that their independent CDs can't play unless they pay fifteen grand to the association for a 'key.' And they can only buy the key if they agree to the 4.5-cent contract and let the association have all the merch sales. Students calculate how much an extra $1.60 per-CD royalty tax eats into their bottom lines, the cost of lost T-Shirt sales, and how many 4.5-cent CDs it would take to pay off the $15,000 for a key. How does this make them feel?
End of lesson discussion: Why are artists starving?
OPTIONAL: If time permits, the teacher may role-play a visiting guest teacher who tries to tell them that they're criminals for daring to want to produce or enjoy music without paying the association. Hilarity ensues.
Careful where you tread, soon you'll be able to use that logic to claim that a CD that wasn't going to be sold anyway has just been 'stolen' because someone failed to buy it..
11 cents to brainwash a child for two years is a really great deal. Will they offer the same deal for everyone? For a few dollars, you could be a guest teacher for two years and "deprogram" a class. Or for a couple hundred, you could get the entire school.
Maybe they could have a one-time rate in addition to the two-year subscription. "Get 30 minutes of class time for just a quarter. Half-price on Tuesdays!"
When you consider that the entertainment industry will probably sue half of these kids the next day for several hundred thousand dollars each, the deal gets even sweeter!
If I could oly put into words how the entertainment industry disgusts me. I have not paid for a movie, or a music CD in over five years and counting! These greedy, hateful jerks aren't getting rich off of me! If I found out that my kid were going to a school that allowed entertainment industry thugs to spread propaganda, I would pull them out faster than you can say "the entertainment industry sucks balls".
Screw these entertainment industry Nazi's! Everyone stop buying their products! They don't deserve a penny!
In other words, I owe the phone company a buck.
Wherever on earth did you get the idea I said otherwise?
Owing the phone company a buck is a debt, not a crime. We outlawed debt as crime. Remember?
KFG
and ppl wonder why California's education system is so crappy.
Firstly, I think you were mismoderated, because I didn't see this as flamebait at all. That said:
/. No matter how you justify it, taking copyrighted material without paying for it is not legal. Nor should it be legal.
> I'm continuously surprised at the lack of respect for IP laws on
In turn, I'm continuously surprised at the lack of respect for IP laws in Congress. No matter how they justify it, extending copyright just to protect a corporation's income stream should be reconsidered. I find it telling that every time the expiration date for Mickey Mouse's copyright approaches, Walt Disney, Inc. feeds a bucket of money into copyright extension laws. I understand why WDInc wants to preserve exclusive rights to Mickey, but I fail to see how that is of any benefit to society at large, which was the reason put forward upon the creation of copyright in the first place. Mickey's creator made a living fortune from him, as did his children, but now it's just a company using a hyperextended law to protect their money stream.
This is the main problem I have with copyright. I think copyright as it was originally intended is a very good idea, because some protection does indeed afford authors and other artists leeway in creating works. But I believe that the idea has been abused by organizations like the RIAA and MPAA far beyond meaningful process, which is why I have so little respect for IP laws. If I thought that IP laws were anything other than a farcical set of laws purchased by these companies for their own express benefit, and if I though that there was anything that the everyman could do in the face of the big money that drove creation of these laws, then I might be more respectful of them.
> This is how a free market works. If you don't like the method in which a product is offered, and enough people agree with you, then an alternate method will evolve. ITunes is a perfect example.
In fact, an alternate method has evolved. The fact that the alternate method that has become so popular (by their words) is also against the law is evidence that an awful lot of people agree that copyright laws are broken. When so many people break a law that the affected parties feel they need to educate 5th to 9th graders that it's wrong, it's time to reexamine why it's illegal to begin with. Many folk smarter than me have analyzed the trends, but I stand on my observation that there are many people who will share files with impunity who would never consider going to a record store and shoplifting the CD to be acceptable. This indicates a tendency to think there's some moral difference here. State that there isn't just because the law says there isn't, and you fall into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA have.
Virg
Kazaa dumped 100K into the same schools and started a new educational program educating kids about their rights when it comes to fileshareing? The program could include a tutorial on how to install and use Kazaa.
Rah ha hah hah hahh !! you filthy americans are paying to dig your
own graves you hand over your souls to the people who dont care a damn
shit for you in my country my people says how will the mighty evil america
every fall ? and i laugh at their face and say 'you wait and see they kill
their own kind and when they dig there own grave we all go and laugh ha haahahaha'
now with a generation or two of corporate brainwashed money sucking kids
america will be ripe for takeover
Reminder: tell engineer to stop working on the nuclear bomb and startcelebrations
muh ah hahaha haaaahahahha
The MPAA members are "storytellers" - they make their billions by telling stories that hook people's emotions. So it makes sense that instead of hiring an outside PR firm, they would use movies to sway people to their side.
The problem is, the MPAA's favorite story is inherently anti-establishment. They like to entertain us with the plucky rebel taking on the corrupt and archaic regime. So now their challenge is to cast themselves (bloated plutocrats) as plucky starving artists. Sounds difficult.
This sort of thing of social engineering started many years ago.
As an aware child ( read: non conformist ), in school, I could see the beginnings of this 20 years ago. I refused to be snowed.
As a parent, I see it every day, and it does nothing but anger me. But.. its also my job to undo whatever damage they have done, by teaching MY values and MY morals to my child when he gets home..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
To the kid who spoke out against this idiocy, my congratulations. (Too bad I can't find your contact info easily) Now let's just hope there are more of us out there...
-insert a witty something-
Sweet. New business method I just patented. I'll spare you the jargon.
We're going to manufacture stylish, pulp-culture inspired, ladies under garments, and srink wrap a license. This license will, among other things, allow some company employees and all share holders to conduct unannounced audits of said garments, and their contents. We'll only be making petite sizes. Who wants to invest?
I sent JA an e-mail, discussing my concerns about this program. I was in JA when I was a kid, and that I would bring up these concerns to my kids school, if they were not addressed, here is the response I got: Mr. XXXXXX, Thank you for writing. Please know there are a number of factual inaccuracies contained in the AP story. JA is attempting to educate students about all the issues surrounding ILLEGAL file sharing, not file sharing. The reporter's editor, based in San Francisco, agreed last night to make a number of corrections and repost the story to the wire, though the original, incorrect story (the one you most likely read) was already released. There have been a number of corporate scandals over the last few years. We believe the best way to stem that in the future is to carefully teach children about business ethics. As guests in the classroom, we are VERY sensitive to what our volunteers say in front of students; be assured all of our curriculum reflects that sensitivity. In this particular case, the more children get talking (and debating) illegal file-sharing, the more awareness they will have about this issue. That's how learning occurs, and that's what we hope happens. In fact, one of the role-playing activities from our new Digital Citizenship program has students playing the role of a computer user, who advocates that there is "nothing wrong with illegal file sharing." Students are immediately engaged by the relevancy of this subject matter, and we get them talking about the facts, not necessarily an industry viewpoint. While this activity was witnessed by the reporter in a classroom setting, it was not included in the story. Fair use is, in fact, discussed. Unfortunately this too was left out of the article. We invite you to access the curriculum, in its entirety, at http://www.ja.org/programs/programs_supplements_ci tizenship.shtml
Please note too this program is optional; teachers who don't want it in
their classroom won't get it. Contrary to what the article portrays, the
actual feedback from educators indicates that this is an important message
to teach our children, as long as it is done responsibly and objectively.
Please feel free to contact or have any one else concerned about this issue
contact me. I am more than happy to set the record straight. In the
meantime, I have attached our rebuttal to the story. I urge you to please
give it your careful consideration.
Sincerely,
Edwin Bodensiek
Director - Public Affairs
Junior Achievement Inc.
One Education Way
Colorado Springs, CO 80906
719-540-6297
ebodensiek@ja.org
www.ja.org
Don't Vote for Norm Dicks! http://www.nodicks2008.com Another nutless dirtbag that voted for the FISA bill!
You owe the company a buck if that's what both parties have agreed to. If you simply download a song without the knowledge or consent of its owner, or any kind of mutually accepted contractual arrangement, you've engaged in theft. You can't unilaterally create a contract just because it's convenient for you.
On the other hand, I can take your logic and apply it to almost anything. If I take a CD from the store, I haven't really stolen it, it's just the I now owe the store $15. How is that any different? The end result is the same.
How is it a theft if the owner is not deprived of what you had allegedly stolen?
I remember being in Junior Achievement in middle school. It was a group of about five kids and we never did anything worthwhile. We destroyed room and ordered out and learned to cheat our Junior Achievment leader out of money. This will not work.
Kids are not going to swallow to the MPAA propaganda. It just will not happen. We were rebellious and we by most considerations were tame. In a public school this is just not going to work. Sure you might be able to guilt trip a few kids into stopping. Anyways, most of the people on these networks, especially those sharing lots of files, are in foriegn countries...in my experience atleast.
What will be interesting to see next is the MPAA's next move. I hope we see a "Filez Madness" much like the "Reefer Madness" that those against Marihuana publicized.
As a game, the children could be split into two groups. Group one could be the "Record Executives" and group two could be "The Band". The game would start with the Record Executives telling the Band how cool they are and buying them a round of drinks. This would then be followed by the Band be "bound by a contract"--this could be eneacted by tying the children into their chairs to really graphically illustrate how binding a contract is. After a week of being tied into their desks and completely ignored, the Record Executies would then untie the Band just long enough to "produce an album" at this point the Band would be stripped naked tied up and thrown out into the hallway.
If everyAt the end of the game the students that have not been comletely psychologically destroyed and sent away to an assylum would be asked, "how does this make you feel?"
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
except that it is not possible to "steal" licensing. you can violate a licinese, posses intellectual property without paying the license fees, but you can't steal a license.
A license means you have the right to have the IP in the first place. You can't steal the right to have something legally. That doesn't make sense.
stolen implies illegal ownership of an item; the item has been illegally removed from its rightful owner and is now in the posession of someone else.
in that sense, if something is stolen if I have not paid for it, it therefore must be owned by me if I have paid for it.
The difference between PWC and Andersen is that Andersen did it in the US. PWC did it in Russia and they got away with it (although they eventually lost their audit arrangement with the RCB. Frankly PWC, should be dismembered like Andersen.
If those thieves ever accuse my kids of stealing from the producers, I will quite happily tell them how much they conived in stealing fom the Russian people and the IMF.
They are deprived of the compensation they would normally receive for providing you with the benefit you derive from what it is you've stolen. There *is* such a thing as theft of service. It doesn't involve the acquisition of a physical object, but you do derive benefit from using something that someone else is paying for. There is a very similar principle at work when someone steals music without paying for it.
I'm not talking about logic, I'm talking about the law.
I didn't just make it up out of nothing.
The law has found it to be a very good idea to differentiate between abstractions and actual property. A CD is actual property. A right is not property. You cannot "steal" a right. You can infringe it. That infringement may put you under legal liability to whom you have infringed. That liability has limits set by law, not contract.
If I take your car I have deprived you of your car. That is a criminal act. If I copy your car, even if that reduces the value of yours, I have not deprived you of your car. There is no crime.
If I take your CD I have stolen it. You do not have it any more. You do not have its value anymore. I do. If I copy your CD I have not stolen it and you cannot charge me with such.
If I take a dollar bill out of your wallet, Xerox it, then give it back, I have conterfied that dollar (which happens to be a federal offense), but I have not stolen anything from you or the government, and cannot be charged with theft by you, nor will I charged with theft by the government.
Salesmen talk of "stealing" sales. You can't steal a sale. It isn't property. It's an abstract right. You might be able to sue (unlikely, but what the hell, give it a go, that's what small claims courts are for), but you can't charge with larceny.
In most cases potential sales are actually prohibited from being actionable.
If you took the master of a CD, preventing the rights holder from being able to make copies themselves then that would be theft.
George Harrison did not "steal" My Sweet Lord, he was found to be liable for infringing on someone's rights and owed them money.
He didn't even know he was doing it.
Theft can only be done if you do it with intent, to deprive, of actual property, of value. (if you pick a leaf up off the ground and I grab it from you and run away I have not commited theft. The leaf was of no value. If I carve a square yard our of your lawn and take it, that's theft, because it has value)
If "might have sold" and "should have sold" become crimes than we're all going to end up in jail pretty damned fast. The law understands this and prohibits it.
"Take" is theft.
"Copy" is infringement.
And it was good.
Conterfied?
Don't ask. It's a long story.
KFG
I'd rather put up with a couple strange typos than not see your posts add some sanity here. Like in the "End of the Oil Age" discussion, for example.
Unfortounatly, my current high school is already being effected by the Riaa(mainly) and the Mpaa. te had a nice article in the school newspaper against downloading music and what the Riaa is doing to people who download and it is scaring people, but mainly because they are uneducated in l337-n3ss. so, i dont personaly care about them that mutch. enough with my rambeling
I am wondering, and about to send an email to my isp after i post this but, i live in the us but my isp is canadain. so, am i under canadain law? i got a nice little message with a popup saying that the offer wasnt avalable in canida! ainyways, i guess that i will ask them directly and allways remember->
**** the riaa and mpaa!
*(offensive comments were moderated?)
In Uzbekistan, the best way to get music or movies is at the bazaar (Chorsu or Hippodrome), for about $2/CD. You do not file share, because the country doesn't have enough bandwidth and unless you are related to Karimov, forget about broadband at home. However, I approve of the kid's idea. A PWC accountant should approve of such a legislative avoidance move.
Back when I was in grade school, volunteer teachers from Junior Achievement came about once a week to teach us how the stock market worked. It's a shame they're wasting their time working for the MPAA now instead of teaching useful things.
only $100,000? com'n, who are you kidding? there's no need to hide the rest of it.
Ignoring the "communist indoctrination" aspect of things, I've got a couple of questions.
First, how many kids aged 11 to 16 buy (or can afford to buy) music, movie tickets, or DVDs? I thought that most kids got those on their birthdays or on Christmas, and that their money comes from mowing the neighbor's lawn or from their grandparents that didn't know what to get them for their birthday. It seems to me that the limited finances of this age group would make the purchase of a CD much less likely.
Second, how do you make a kid care about some guy in another state not getting a buck because they downloaded his hit and didn't buy it? This is made even more difficult considering that almost all kids listen to music from the really popular artists. How could you convince kids that Avril Lavigne is starving and needs their money?
Third, how will the good, law-abiding kids be viewed by their peers? Will they be respected for "doing what's right", or alienated for being sissies?
Who's next after that? Nazi "information" tables? Al-Queda recruiting?
Tech Public Policy stuff
If you copy music your a terrorist!!!
Yeah shameless pug, but: these people (friends of mine) are happy with an online distribution model... MS-based, but they're happy with it. I'm too, on their behalf, though I'm nowhere near happy with MS in general. I just believe that you should choose the right tool. In this case, it's the closest/only tool
Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors!
I agree. You pointed out the fact that stealing ( theft, piracy, whatever you want to call it ) is different than copyright violation, and should be treated differently. The other good points you made were that no individual/business is guaranteed a sale ( without both sides agreeing to it, and even then the courts can declare the contract void ). Not today, not ever. A business can have a thousand sales 1 day and zero the next. It all depends on whether anyone is willing to pay for their service/product. :).
It's called capitalism and the U.S. needs to be reminded of how the system should work, and not how corporations who want to be "guaranteed" want to make it artificially work. For example, RIAA saying that record companies aren't making as many sales as they think they think they should, so a "theft tax" should be levied on each CDR sale. To repeat, no company is "owed" sales and there is no such thing "theft of sales".
Anyhow, kudos on the post/ Its 1:35am in the morning where I am at, and I've got some coding to do
I can't afford a sig!
Their movie ads are taking the 'feel bad for set painters approach'?
And the program is named "What's the Diff?", as if 'Diff' is some cool slang for kids now.
whats the diff: 100k aint gonna stop filesharing
Things Wrong with Satellite: Well, nothing
What about Canadian broadcast regulations that don't let DirecTV sell in Canada because Canada wants xx% of Canadian produced content on every channel? This is the excuse I've read about in most satellite TV service theft cases.
Will I retire or break 10K?
hollywood can try all they want, with the level of awareness in th the convieniece(cost) of file sharing, they do not have enough money buy out a generation of believers of "fast food", "high speed" and "cheap shoes" to start paying for stuff that they can get for free. ........it just would not be the right thing to do :->
I remember one day driving into Livermore California and seeing that it was DARE Red Ribbon Day. If you drive in on 580, you go past the big wine barrel sign celebrating the town and surrounding area's wine-making industry....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
In their perfect world, you pay for everything; more specifically, you pay them for everything.
In PKD's Ubik (and I think some of his other novels, or at least short stories) you had to pay your door to get in and out of your own home, every time. If you didn't have any coins on you, you could become trapped in your conapt, having an argument with your door. It was probably funny when he wrote it, hey it's still funny, but PKD was a real visionary.
This signature used to contain a cute kitty virus with ansii art. Please set the slashdot editors on fire. Thank you
> There *is* such a thing as theft of service.
e ally-quick"'s sake.
> It doesn't involve the acquisition of a
> physical object, but you do derive benefit
> from using something that someone else
> is paying for.
That illustrates the key point: if you can duplicate something without cost (e.g.: idea, algorithm, data bits, music), which clearly contributes to the progress of our world in general, WHY THE HELL would you create mechanisms (which carry their own overheads BTW) to prevent that?
The optimal (global) solution is of course to allow free copying of ideas and bits. Don't ask how this would fit into capitalism. Rather, ask how capitalism would fit into that. For our "world-that-is-running-out-of-natural-resources-r
And don't try to argue my point. You're wrong, I, the Anonymous Coward, am right. Bwahahhaha.