The anonymous moron asked, "Does it mark the items complete when the task is completed?"
I said it did, because when you fix the tasks, they no longer appear.
Therefore whereas you are right that it doesn't count against the patent by itself, you are completely off the mark with your reasoning.
The real reason it doesn't count against the patent is that it is not shown in an IDE. If it were shown in an IDE, then the Doxygen implementation would be a 100% fit.
But never mind that IDEs like Visual Age had this feature long before the Visual Studio betas even thought of it.
What is an application? On my old digital watch, the double click used to start the stop-watch, and the long click started the timer. If you had those two features on a PDA, they would be considered applications, so why aren't they considered applications on a digital watch?
I probably don't understand what your concern is, but wouldn't you just use the same mechanism you use for anything which is Java-based? That is, if the location the jar file came from isn't trusted, you don't let it access protected stuff. If you want it to, add its location to your security policy.
Well this is probably just a thought, but if the integration API is open, then we can surely implement the API to work on vanilla GNOME and KDE. We would just use the KdeJava and JavaGnome projects to provide whatever tinkering we need to do, right?
I guess it could be something to play with. I've been missing an officially-supported way to interact with the desktop for a while now... starting from the basics of the system tray icon and working on up.
I took an interest in Java for desktop work a few years ago, but quickly realized that Java on the desktop is even worse than Java applets were. (And at the time they were both incredibly atrocious.)
So we already know where this is coming from. Someone who saw how bad it was in the past and hasn't kept up with the improvements: "Perl was pretty crap in version 1.0, therefore Perl still sucks today."
Even with the increases in processor power, storage, and memory, Java is still atrocious, even compared to interpreted languages like Perl or Python.
We know this is a lie, because Java outbenched Python in benchmarks last year (it almost outbenched C, and would have if it weren't for the atrocious trigonometric performance.)
Even the simplest applications leave even powerful systems swapping like mad. Java consumes memory like the unholy offspring of Rush Limbaugh and Courtney Love would consume drugs at a pharmacy warehouse. Java brings in a large memory footprint that makes it completely unsuitable for many applications.
It brings about 8MB on top of the base application size. I don't know about you, but I have 512MB RAM in my system.
Of course by "it", I mean the Sun JVM. The Sun JVM is one of half a dozen that I know of, and some of those half a dozen are specifically written to conserve memory. Therefore bitching about Sun JVM's memory usage is akin to bitching about glibc's size wastage on a device where you should be using dietlibc.
And don't get me started about Swing and the other Java UI classes. The last thing we need is another UI toolkit. Had Java used native widgets, it might fit in better.
(... well it did in AWT, the problem was more that it didn't look modern enough...)
Had Java used widgets that didn't look like a throwback to Motif it might have been slightly better.
"The default GTK theme sucks, therefore GTK on the whole sucks."
Instead Java UIs tend to be a usability nightmare. Even Eclipse, which is far and away the best app I've seen in Java has nowhere near the visual polish as its GNOME, KDE, Aqua, or Win32 equivalents.
... not that anyone has ever really seen an "equivalent" to Eclipse. I don't like Eclipse much myself (would use IDEA if I could afford it), but I've never seen any other application even competing in the same space. KDevelop looks like it might put up a fight, but it sure as hell doesn't at present, and is far from what I would call "polished."
In fact the main problem with Eclipse is that it's based on the shittiest GUI toolkit in existence: SWT. If it had been based on Swing like IDEA is, it would probably run smoother, look better, and generally be easier to use.
The fact is that if Java is to succeed in the desktop it needs to be made much faster,
... I'd love to see how it could get much faster, since it's already faster than C in many areas. Hey, perhaps C should get much faster too...
...memory footprint needs to be reduced,...
... again, property of the VM, not Java...
... and it needs to get a consistant and usable set of Human Interface Guidelines.
Yeah, because that really made GTK and Qt apps so consistent. The only desktop environment with a set of HIG that anyone gives a fuck about is OSX. Every other platform has them, and even Java has them, but the developers have to care! And of course, you can't force developers to care.
Unfortunately for Sun, I tend to think that the Java developers would be better suited to inventing a time machine and traveling back to 1996 when such improvements may have made a difference.
Well I would just go back with a copy of J2SE 1.5, to save all the waiting time for that.:-)
Java has a nice niche as an enterprise-level web applications language, but as a desktop programming language Java isn't neither well
You're absolutely right, there. The problem is that there are good Swing developers and there are shit Swing developers. It's just that unfortunately, the shit developers, who seem to be unaware of Swing's single-threaded application model, seem to be the majority at the moment, so you get all kinds of applications which pause during rendering because they're performing some other work from the wrong thread.
But certainly comparing the two competing APIs using an app written with each by the same developer, Swing runs faster than SWT/GTK.
If you're so desperate for a shared VM, you could always use JShell, or any number of similar solutions people have implemented, mostly for the purpose of running Java daemons.
The thing which was added in 1.5 improves startup time, but each JVM you run still takes the same amount of space, unless they say otherwise on a different web page. JShell, on the other hand, solves the memory issue. (I wonder why this couldn't be worked into a core feature.)
Not to mention, a nice way to watermark your own digital photos to stop certain people fucking with them. Although it will really only screw Euro users who can't be bothered to download GIMP instead of using Photoslop.:-)
No, Windows Firefox selects a line when you triple-click, not a paragraph. I'm using it right now, so I can post a screenshot if you really want proof. Although you appear to use it yourself, so you could perhaps try it before mouthing off next time.:-)
Oh, this is also version 0.8. Perhaps the feature existed in an earlier version and you are on the earlier one still. I won't rule out that possibility.
Anyway it would be really nice if it did select the whole paragraph...
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The anonymous moron asked, "Does it mark the items complete when the task is completed?"
I said it did, because when you fix the tasks, they no longer appear.
Therefore whereas you are right that it doesn't count against the patent by itself, you are completely off the mark with your reasoning.
The real reason it doesn't count against the patent is that it is not shown in an IDE. If it were shown in an IDE, then the Doxygen implementation would be a 100% fit.
But never mind that IDEs like Visual Age had this feature long before the Visual Studio betas even thought of it.
You can if the application of the art in the new scope is obvious.
Oh boy. It's funny 'cos it's true...
What is an application? On my old digital watch, the double click used to start the stop-watch, and the long click started the timer. If you had those two features on a PDA, they would be considered applications, so why aren't they considered applications on a digital watch?
Well the next time you run it, the task won't be there if it has been completed.
But didn't VisualAge for Java (for which Eclipse was effectively the replacement) have this feature too?
Did I say they were?...
I probably don't understand what your concern is, but wouldn't you just use the same mechanism you use for anything which is Java-based? That is, if the location the jar file came from isn't trusted, you don't let it access protected stuff. If you want it to, add its location to your security policy.
I concur. Those capitalist pigs should rename Fedora Core to Fedora GNU/Core, post-haste.
Well this is probably just a thought, but if the integration API is open, then we can surely implement the API to work on vanilla GNOME and KDE. We would just use the KdeJava and JavaGnome projects to provide whatever tinkering we need to do, right?
I guess it could be something to play with. I've been missing an officially-supported way to interact with the desktop for a while now... starting from the basics of the system tray icon and working on up.
I took an interest in Java for desktop work a few years ago, but quickly realized that Java on the desktop is even worse than Java applets were. (And at the time they were both incredibly atrocious.)
So we already know where this is coming from. Someone who saw how bad it was in the past and hasn't kept up with the improvements: "Perl was pretty crap in version 1.0, therefore Perl still sucks today."
Even with the increases in processor power, storage, and memory, Java is still atrocious, even compared to interpreted languages like Perl or Python.
We know this is a lie, because Java outbenched Python in benchmarks last year (it almost outbenched C, and would have if it weren't for the atrocious trigonometric performance.)
Even the simplest applications leave even powerful systems swapping like mad. Java consumes memory like the unholy offspring of Rush Limbaugh and Courtney Love would consume drugs at a pharmacy warehouse. Java brings in a large memory footprint that makes it completely unsuitable for many applications.
It brings about 8MB on top of the base application size. I don't know about you, but I have 512MB RAM in my system.
Of course by "it", I mean the Sun JVM. The Sun JVM is one of half a dozen that I know of, and some of those half a dozen are specifically written to conserve memory. Therefore bitching about Sun JVM's memory usage is akin to bitching about glibc's size wastage on a device where you should be using dietlibc.
And don't get me started about Swing and the other Java UI classes. The last thing we need is another UI toolkit. Had Java used native widgets, it might fit in better.
(... well it did in AWT, the problem was more that it didn't look modern enough...)
Had Java used widgets that didn't look like a throwback to Motif it might have been slightly better.
"The default GTK theme sucks, therefore GTK on the whole sucks."
Instead Java UIs tend to be a usability nightmare. Even Eclipse, which is far and away the best app I've seen in Java has nowhere near the visual polish as its GNOME, KDE, Aqua, or Win32 equivalents.
... not that anyone has ever really seen an "equivalent" to Eclipse. I don't like Eclipse much myself (would use IDEA if I could afford it), but I've never seen any other application even competing in the same space. KDevelop looks like it might put up a fight, but it sure as hell doesn't at present, and is far from what I would call "polished."
In fact the main problem with Eclipse is that it's based on the shittiest GUI toolkit in existence: SWT. If it had been based on Swing like IDEA is, it would probably run smoother, look better, and generally be easier to use.
The fact is that if Java is to succeed in the desktop it needs to be made much faster,
... I'd love to see how it could get much faster, since it's already faster than C in many areas. Hey, perhaps C should get much faster too...
... again, property of the VM, not Java...
Yeah, because that really made GTK and Qt apps so consistent. The only desktop environment with a set of HIG that anyone gives a fuck about is OSX. Every other platform has them, and even Java has them, but the developers have to care! And of course, you can't force developers to care.
Unfortunately for Sun, I tend to think that the Java developers would be better suited to inventing a time machine and traveling back to 1996 when such improvements may have made a difference.
Well I would just go back with a copy of J2SE 1.5, to save all the waiting time for that. :-)
Java has a nice niche as an enterprise-level web applications language, but as a desktop programming language Java isn't neither well
You're absolutely right, there. The problem is that there are good Swing developers and there are shit Swing developers. It's just that unfortunately, the shit developers, who seem to be unaware of Swing's single-threaded application model, seem to be the majority at the moment, so you get all kinds of applications which pause during rendering because they're performing some other work from the wrong thread.
But certainly comparing the two competing APIs using an app written with each by the same developer, Swing runs faster than SWT/GTK.
The only half-decent SWT implementation is in GTK (I say half decent because it is slow as fuck, and isn't Qt).
The JDS, which is built on GNOME, which is also built on GTK.
So SWT apps would not only work, they would style just like any other GTK apps running on that GNOME desktop.
That basically isn't much worse than what we have now, where naive users refer to "Mandrake Linux 9.0" as "Linux 9.0" on forums.
If you're so desperate for a shared VM, you could always use JShell, or any number of similar solutions people have implemented, mostly for the purpose of running Java daemons.
Actually I thought he was talking about something like this.
The thing which was added in 1.5 improves startup time, but each JVM you run still takes the same amount of space, unless they say otherwise on a different web page. JShell, on the other hand, solves the memory issue. (I wonder why this couldn't be worked into a core feature.)
I think what he was talking about was that he didn't have a manifest file with "Main-Class: com.foo.MyMainClass" in it.
But on the other hand, they could have grabbed SAP for just long enough to shut down their open source database, and then thrown it out again. :-)
Not to mention, a nice way to watermark your own digital photos to stop certain people fucking with them. Although it will really only screw Euro users who can't be bothered to download GIMP instead of using Photoslop. :-)
Whoa, imagine a Beowulf cluster of those little things.
I'm sure if it were the default provider for virtual/jdk then people would use it. I mean, that's the only way Blackdown gets any users, right? ;-)
Yeah, you're right. Open sourcing this will be the death of Sun, just like it was the death of Mysql and Trolltech.
Yet you are pressing software buttons with it. There is a difference.
No, Windows Firefox selects a line when you triple-click, not a paragraph. I'm using it right now, so I can post a screenshot if you really want proof. Although you appear to use it yourself, so you could perhaps try it before mouthing off next time. :-)
Oh, this is also version 0.8. Perhaps the feature existed in an earlier version and you are on the earlier one still. I won't rule out that possibility.
Anyway it would be really nice if it did select the whole paragraph...
If you mean "this" as in your own post, then yes. It does. Triple-clicking in Firefox only selects a line, not a paragraph.