This is probably true but I know for a fact that I would buy an Intel Mac because I could put Windows AND my favorite Linux AND Mac all on the same dual-booting machine. That's very apetizing for me seeing as I've never been into multiple-computer setups. Multiple OS single computers sounds great.
I dunno...it loses its magic pretty quickly. Neat trick, sure, but I like my machines to run all the time, and provide whatever functionality their OS provides all the time. It becomes real annoying when you want to pull a file out of Windows and upload it to the webserver, but the webserver isn't running because you need to be booted into Linux for that. I used to dual boot a lot, but now I just have more hardware, and run single boot everywhere except my laptop, which still has XP on a back 5GB, just in case I need to go flash a DSL modem or something, which would need windows, and need onsite access. I boot the machine to Windows about 3-4 times a year (so far, over the course of 2 years with the laptop).
Ok, I'm starting to get pissed. This guy plays us for fools every fucking week. He's just a troll....why do we let him be such an effective, and yes, profitable one? He puts out this outrageous bullshit all the time, and somebody posts it to/., we all come running to yell about it, and his advertisers and publishers laugh all the way to the bank.
In response, I suggest that when it's time to post the next Dvorak story, somebody make a mirror of the text (it may need to be offshore to avoid PCMag or whomever complaining about copyright issues) and post the links to that. And insist that people make their comments on/. instead of the PCMag boards. That way we can complain about him being such an ass without putting money in his pocket.
I'd even take it a step further; by going cross-platform with the OS, and abstracting the binary compatibility issue away with XCode and Rosetta, they are now no longer beholden to any chipmaker. Intel is probably giving them a sweet deal (they are a pretty high-volume seller, after all), but should that deteriorate, they can always go over to AMD. Or back to IBM for power/cell chips. And in fact, they can do all at once....if they decide they want to have pentium-M in the laptops, cell in the desktops, and opterons in the servers, no problem.
That's so far the only way I can view Apple's move yesterday that makes any sense to me. This is more than just another archetecture move...it's a move above archetectures.
Well, maybe. I certainly think going x86 is a huge mistake for them....unless they're planning on licensing out OSX, which has its own issues. But more importantly, these guys have blown it lots of times before. Seems like they always keep coming back. I'll bet if Cell does make a really big splash Apple will run on those procs as well in a short while. The biggest news for me yesterday was that they consider OSX "cross-platform" from a design perpective. They can juggle chips all they want now, same as Linux.
Yes, and the force required to push a playstation button is relatively small (until you start getting pissed), and the distance short on a per-push basis. But when you add them all up.......that's a lot of work!
Sorry, but that's just bs... the "KHTML developers" picked the license, and Apple gave back as much as they had to according to that license. That's it, that's the whole thing; Apple never were the bad guys, because they did what they have to.
Bullshit. The fact that they weren't legally required to be good citizens does not mean no one should ever be able to criticize their actions. They took a piece of software from an open-source group, acted like they wanted to cooperate with them, then forked it too far and acted like asses when the KHTML guys asked them to try to work back toward one codebase. They went so far as to tell the KHTML guys to just drop their project and use Apple's version.
None of this was illegal. It was just a dickhead move.
Of course, now Apple has done something in the hopes of correcting that, which indicates they also feel they haven't done right by KHTML. Hopefully this will help the situation...overall, I have seen Apple as a halfway decent OSS player. But in this case, I think time will have to tell...the real issue is whether this will help the two codebases codevelop more or not. If it doesn't, Apple will have been the "bad guy" because they will have unnecessarily split development resources and time for a project that could have been cooperatively handled. That's a Bad Thing, regardless of whether it's legally permissible.
Another odd effect is if cell finds it way into printers we'll have a situation we had back in the 80s where the printer is more powerful then it's host PC is so people will do crazy stuff like write apps in postscript again for simulations and rendering.
Huh? Why would cell end up in a printer? Perhaps maybe in major-league large-format photo printers or something (the Lambda76+ I used to work with was controlled by 2 dual alphas) but those are using the horsepower for real work already, in environments where management won't be keen on the engineers using them for other things...and where they will be keen on buying fast enough workstations that it won't be necessary. The printers people will be connecting to host PCs, that have cycles to spare, will still use chips in the $15 range, not chips in the $300 range.
Now this is interesting. What more proof a distro has come close to nailing the issue of usability if its users are mentioned in a disdainful way by the elitists.
Haven't got anything against Ubuntu users; as it happens, I'm typing this on a Hoary machine. But I do have something against someone with 4 months Linux experience giving me hell about becoming root instead of doing the sudo two-step. And I'm not referring to the GP at this point, but other experiences with that small subset of Ubuntu-n00bs.
I was about 2/3 done posting when I realized that he could just as easily be suggesting 'su' should be added to my 3 commands (of course, I tend to keep a root shell around when I'm doing stuff anyway, but...), but I felt at that point that what I had so far was funny enough to keep. Plus, I really am pissed about the sudo thing...that's dumb as hell.
unless you're running as root (bad, bad, BAD!!!!) I think you're forgetting something:)
Well, at first I saw your handle and figured you were just some Ubuntu-n00b that got told "root's bad, mmkay?" and figured it was now his right as a newly-1337 assclown to go around and scold people for this shit.
But then I looked at the number by that handle, and realized that it is far, far too low. Ubuntu wasn't even a glimmer in Debian's eye when you signed up.
So....you've got no excuse. And I must answer:
Hey pencil-dick! It's my fucking server, and I'll run as fucking root when I fucking feel like it! I'll hack up my sudoers file, add your mother to wheel, and just generally break your dumbass procedural rules! And you'll goddamned well like it, because I pay attention to what the fuck I do as root, at least as much as you asspirates pay attention when you strap "sudo" on the frontend of every damn thing and act like it's somehow safer. So piss off!
(Sorry everybody. But that's really getting to be one of my hotbuttons. Whoever up and decided that it was better to give every fucking user sudo access and then tell everybody never to su should be shot.)
especailly with key system components as release gets closer debian often preffers to backport what they wan't than move to new upstream versions.
Oh great...even better. We get a hacked up nonstandard old version of the dead project. I'm not a Debian-basher (I've been running Sarge on some boxes for a while, and way back when Woody was new I ran that too) but I really, really, really wish they'd have gone with xorg instead.
Oh man. That's fucking great. I mean, ok, it's troll....no doubt. And I suppose I do support the always-mod-down-gnaa-assholes policy. But still, go back and read the parent, because that shit is hilarious. And I'm an "unwashed GNU/Hippie."
My favorite line? The Debian project was started in 1993 by Ian Murdock, who was unsatisfied with the level of political bickering and useless hand-wringing found in other projects at the time.
Of course, I'm extremely happy that Debian finally got it done. I've been running Sarge where I could keep it behind a firewall only, simply because the testing branch doesn't get security patches fast enough for me. And running Woody was not an option at all (well, not in a few years at least....I do remember when it was released, and I used it a bit then), so I've been using other distros for anything that has to be out in the open. But now I can have Sarge do my heavy lifting. And for anyone who wants to know why we still care about Debian....it's because a)they do a ton of backend development that helps everybody, and b)it's so unbelievably rock-solid, I've never once seen it fuck up. I can't say that for any other distribution I've used.
Am I missing something here? How is this trolling? I mean, the guy with the MSFanBoi handle decides the only important part of the story is that somebody said this deal wouldn't unseat existing MS products, and I'm the troll for saying that's not the important part at all? On slashdot? Man, what's the world coming to?!
Gee guys, what's the big deal? Pointing out that layoffs are a time-honored cost-cutting measure for corporations, and that this positively affects the bottom line is now flamebait? Well, stick your heads in the sand if you must....
Dude, he gave a URL; if you check out the byline on those books, he'll be unanonymous pretty quick. In fact, posting information that reveals your actual identity seems like one of the best excuses out there to post AC....I could forgive somebody for not wanting the world to know who the real person behind his/. handle is.
Um, people seem to be leaving a very important part out of this... And I quote: "An NIH source says there are no plans to "unseat" Microsoft products, which are widely used throughout HHS."
I suppose your/. handle explains why you think that's the important part. For the rest of us around here, the important part is a multimillion dollar deal for a major Linux vendor, the ratification of that vendor as real-deal for huge enterprise, and ultimately thousands more Linux servers in production. That last bit is probably the kicker for most of us, because it bodes well for our future employability.
That said, I find it hard to believe that this won't be unseating any MS products...unless you take a real narrow view of it. Put yourself in the CIO's position; you have unlimited access to Novell products, but you have to pay per-seat for the MS gear. Sure, machines already running a paid-for copy of Windows will probably stay that way...but I expect every time an NT4 fileserver gets upgraded these folks will be evaluating whether to pay MS or use the Novell stuff. And I'd expect that to become lots more pronounced as upgrade pressure mounts over the next few years. Don't forget, these people are likely taking a pretty long-range view of things here; when 2010 rolls around and Windows 2000 is no longer supported, things could change fast.
Ten years ago, I worked at a small company (starts with a 'Q') in a building across the parking lot from them. Every six months, it seemed, they either layed off or re-hired half their workforce.
It was the perpetual invalid of Colorado's Front Range.
And now they're profitable?
They were probably profitable the whole time....and laying off a ton of workers when they needed to probably helped them stay that way. These things don't always go together you know....
Try to make a small change to a document and save it, enjoy the sound of your disk trashing as the whole file is saved and compressed instead of just saving the small change. Do the same in a binary format.
Bullshit.
Just to check, I did this about a minute ago. I had an.sxw file already open (a 4 page contract) in OpenOffice 1.1.4 (Gentoo Linux, Mobile Ahlon 2000+ laptop, 512MB ram, 5400RPM 60GB drive). I changed one line and clicked save. The save operation took maybe a quarter of a second...at the absolute maximum. As for the thrashing, I didn't hear it...but I probably wouldn't have, as I'm surrounded by whirring computers/routers/switches anyway.
Great. Now we have a bloated XML-format instead of a fast documented binary-format.
A lose-lose situation.
This will make Office as slow as cOOpycatOffice.
Good job, morons. Dig your own grave.
Good job, moron. Post as absolutely ignorantly as possible.
1)Where is this alleged "fast documented binary-format[sic]"? I haven't seen it.
2)What information do you have that suggests that the XML format will be bloated?
3)Even if we take 1 and 2 as given, I only see one "lose" what's the "lose-lose" about?
4)OpenOffice's speed issues are at startup, and don't appear to me to have anything at all to do with the file format. You'll note that the speed is not significantly improved when using other file formats.
5)It seems kind of like sour grapes to call OpenOffice "cOOpycatOffice", given that Microsoft started out with Office by copying what Wordperfect and Lotus were doing.
So there you have it. Once you get through that, there isn't a single word in your post still standing. 100% pure bullshit. STFU.
Well, I had really hoped that some folks would get the joke, and see it as the reverse of the argument we see 40 times in every Linux story about how OSS "kills innovation" or whatever. Which, of course, is crackpot theory. But whatever. No funny mods for me.
Slashdot Mirror
I hope so too....I feel my stock will perform a lot better this way than if they are just going over to x86 ;-)
It's from Deltron 3030, a seriously baddass hiphop albumn with Kid Koala, Del, and Dan the Automator.
This is probably true but I know for a fact that I would buy an Intel Mac because I could put Windows AND my favorite Linux AND Mac all on the same dual-booting machine. That's very apetizing for me seeing as I've never been into multiple-computer setups. Multiple OS single computers sounds great.
I dunno...it loses its magic pretty quickly. Neat trick, sure, but I like my machines to run all the time, and provide whatever functionality their OS provides all the time. It becomes real annoying when you want to pull a file out of Windows and upload it to the webserver, but the webserver isn't running because you need to be booted into Linux for that. I used to dual boot a lot, but now I just have more hardware, and run single boot everywhere except my laptop, which still has XP on a back 5GB, just in case I need to go flash a DSL modem or something, which would need windows, and need onsite access. I boot the machine to Windows about 3-4 times a year (so far, over the course of 2 years with the laptop).
Anyway, point is, dual-booting is just a pain.
It'll be INTERSPECTACULAR!
Ok, I'm starting to get pissed. This guy plays us for fools every fucking week. He's just a troll....why do we let him be such an effective, and yes, profitable one? He puts out this outrageous bullshit all the time, and somebody posts it to /., we all come running to yell about it, and his advertisers and publishers laugh all the way to the bank.
In response, I suggest that when it's time to post the next Dvorak story, somebody make a mirror of the text (it may need to be offshore to avoid PCMag or whomever complaining about copyright issues) and post the links to that. And insist that people make their comments on /. instead of the PCMag boards. That way we can complain about him being such an ass without putting money in his pocket.
Sound ok?
I'd even take it a step further; by going cross-platform with the OS, and abstracting the binary compatibility issue away with XCode and Rosetta, they are now no longer beholden to any chipmaker. Intel is probably giving them a sweet deal (they are a pretty high-volume seller, after all), but should that deteriorate, they can always go over to AMD. Or back to IBM for power/cell chips. And in fact, they can do all at once....if they decide they want to have pentium-M in the laptops, cell in the desktops, and opterons in the servers, no problem.
That's so far the only way I can view Apple's move yesterday that makes any sense to me. This is more than just another archetecture move...it's a move above archetectures.
Apple has blown it. Big time.
Well, maybe. I certainly think going x86 is a huge mistake for them....unless they're planning on licensing out OSX, which has its own issues. But more importantly, these guys have blown it lots of times before. Seems like they always keep coming back. I'll bet if Cell does make a really big splash Apple will run on those procs as well in a short while. The biggest news for me yesterday was that they consider OSX "cross-platform" from a design perpective. They can juggle chips all they want now, same as Linux.
work = force x distance
Yes, and the force required to push a playstation button is relatively small (until you start getting pissed), and the distance short on a per-push basis. But when you add them all up.......that's a lot of work!
Sorry, but that's just bs... the "KHTML developers" picked the license, and Apple gave back as much as they had to according to that license. That's it, that's the whole thing; Apple never were the bad guys, because they did what they have to.
Bullshit. The fact that they weren't legally required to be good citizens does not mean no one should ever be able to criticize their actions. They took a piece of software from an open-source group, acted like they wanted to cooperate with them, then forked it too far and acted like asses when the KHTML guys asked them to try to work back toward one codebase. They went so far as to tell the KHTML guys to just drop their project and use Apple's version.
None of this was illegal. It was just a dickhead move.
Of course, now Apple has done something in the hopes of correcting that, which indicates they also feel they haven't done right by KHTML. Hopefully this will help the situation...overall, I have seen Apple as a halfway decent OSS player. But in this case, I think time will have to tell...the real issue is whether this will help the two codebases codevelop more or not. If it doesn't, Apple will have been the "bad guy" because they will have unnecessarily split development resources and time for a project that could have been cooperatively handled. That's a Bad Thing, regardless of whether it's legally permissible.
Another odd effect is if cell finds it way into printers we'll have a situation we had back in the 80s where the printer is more powerful then it's host PC is so people will do crazy stuff like write apps in postscript again for simulations and rendering.
Huh? Why would cell end up in a printer? Perhaps maybe in major-league large-format photo printers or something (the Lambda76+ I used to work with was controlled by 2 dual alphas) but those are using the horsepower for real work already, in environments where management won't be keen on the engineers using them for other things...and where they will be keen on buying fast enough workstations that it won't be necessary. The printers people will be connecting to host PCs, that have cycles to spare, will still use chips in the $15 range, not chips in the $300 range.
Now this is interesting. What more proof a distro has come close to nailing the issue of usability if its users are mentioned in a disdainful way by the elitists.
Haven't got anything against Ubuntu users; as it happens, I'm typing this on a Hoary machine. But I do have something against someone with 4 months Linux experience giving me hell about becoming root instead of doing the sudo two-step. And I'm not referring to the GP at this point, but other experiences with that small subset of Ubuntu-n00bs.
I was about 2/3 done posting when I realized that he could just as easily be suggesting 'su' should be added to my 3 commands (of course, I tend to keep a root shell around when I'm doing stuff anyway, but...), but I felt at that point that what I had so far was funny enough to keep. Plus, I really am pissed about the sudo thing...that's dumb as hell.
unless you're running as root (bad, bad, BAD!!!!) I think you're forgetting something :)
Well, at first I saw your handle and figured you were just some Ubuntu-n00b that got told "root's bad, mmkay?" and figured it was now his right as a newly-1337 assclown to go around and scold people for this shit.
But then I looked at the number by that handle, and realized that it is far, far too low. Ubuntu wasn't even a glimmer in Debian's eye when you signed up.
So....you've got no excuse. And I must answer:
Hey pencil-dick! It's my fucking server, and I'll run as fucking root when I fucking feel like it! I'll hack up my sudoers file, add your mother to wheel, and just generally break your dumbass procedural rules! And you'll goddamned well like it, because I pay attention to what the fuck I do as root, at least as much as you asspirates pay attention when you strap "sudo" on the frontend of every damn thing and act like it's somehow safer. So piss off!
(Sorry everybody. But that's really getting to be one of my hotbuttons. Whoever up and decided that it was better to give every fucking user sudo access and then tell everybody never to su should be shot.)
afaict its far far from a vanilla 4.3 though.
especailly with key system components as release gets closer debian often preffers to backport what they wan't than move to new upstream versions.
Oh great...even better. We get a hacked up nonstandard old version of the dead project. I'm not a Debian-basher (I've been running Sarge on some boxes for a while, and way back when Woody was new I ran that too) but I really, really, really wish they'd have gone with xorg instead.
Oh man. That's fucking great. I mean, ok, it's troll....no doubt. And I suppose I do support the always-mod-down-gnaa-assholes policy. But still, go back and read the parent, because that shit is hilarious. And I'm an "unwashed GNU/Hippie."
My favorite line? The Debian project was started in 1993 by Ian Murdock, who was unsatisfied with the level of political bickering and useless hand-wringing found in other projects at the time.
Of course, I'm extremely happy that Debian finally got it done. I've been running Sarge where I could keep it behind a firewall only, simply because the testing branch doesn't get security patches fast enough for me. And running Woody was not an option at all (well, not in a few years at least....I do remember when it was released, and I used it a bit then), so I've been using other distros for anything that has to be out in the open. But now I can have Sarge do my heavy lifting. And for anyone who wants to know why we still care about Debian....it's because a)they do a ton of backend development that helps everybody, and b)it's so unbelievably rock-solid, I've never once seen it fuck up. I can't say that for any other distribution I've used.
Finally I get to run:
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get install duke-nukem-forever
Yes!!!!
Am I missing something here? How is this trolling? I mean, the guy with the MSFanBoi handle decides the only important part of the story is that somebody said this deal wouldn't unseat existing MS products, and I'm the troll for saying that's not the important part at all? On slashdot? Man, what's the world coming to?!
Gee guys, what's the big deal? Pointing out that layoffs are a time-honored cost-cutting measure for corporations, and that this positively affects the bottom line is now flamebait? Well, stick your heads in the sand if you must....
As an actual LinuxFund card holder, I can comment on where the money should go. Give it to some Linux related project.
Holy Shit! That's BRILLIANT!!!! Thank God we had an actual LinuxFund card holder on hand to come up with this incredible plan!
Of which you're so proud you post anonymously?
Dude, he gave a URL; if you check out the byline on those books, he'll be unanonymous pretty quick. In fact, posting information that reveals your actual identity seems like one of the best excuses out there to post AC....I could forgive somebody for not wanting the world to know who the real person behind his /. handle is.
Um, people seem to be leaving a very important part out of this... And I quote: "An NIH source says there are no plans to "unseat" Microsoft products, which are widely used throughout HHS."
I suppose your /. handle explains why you think that's the important part. For the rest of us around here, the important part is a multimillion dollar deal for a major Linux vendor, the ratification of that vendor as real-deal for huge enterprise, and ultimately thousands more Linux servers in production. That last bit is probably the kicker for most of us, because it bodes well for our future employability.
That said, I find it hard to believe that this won't be unseating any MS products...unless you take a real narrow view of it. Put yourself in the CIO's position; you have unlimited access to Novell products, but you have to pay per-seat for the MS gear. Sure, machines already running a paid-for copy of Windows will probably stay that way...but I expect every time an NT4 fileserver gets upgraded these folks will be evaluating whether to pay MS or use the Novell stuff. And I'd expect that to become lots more pronounced as upgrade pressure mounts over the next few years. Don't forget, these people are likely taking a pretty long-range view of things here; when 2010 rolls around and Windows 2000 is no longer supported, things could change fast.
Yeah, something like that. Except I'd guess he's using OpenOffice in Windows, so the kernel (mis)configuration isn't exactly his fault...
Of course, the truth of the matter is I think he just pulled that whole story right out of his ass, and probably doesn't even have OO installed.
Ten years ago, I worked at a small company (starts with a 'Q') in a building across the parking lot from them. Every six months, it seemed, they either layed off or re-hired half their workforce.
It was the perpetual invalid of Colorado's Front Range.
And now they're profitable?
They were probably profitable the whole time....and laying off a ton of workers when they needed to probably helped them stay that way. These things don't always go together you know....
Try to make a small change to a document and save it, enjoy the sound of your disk trashing as the whole file is saved and compressed instead of just saving the small change. Do the same in a binary format.
Bullshit.
Just to check, I did this about a minute ago. I had an .sxw file already open (a 4 page contract) in OpenOffice 1.1.4 (Gentoo Linux, Mobile Ahlon 2000+ laptop, 512MB ram, 5400RPM 60GB drive). I changed one line and clicked save. The save operation took maybe a quarter of a second...at the absolute maximum. As for the thrashing, I didn't hear it...but I probably wouldn't have, as I'm surrounded by whirring computers/routers/switches anyway.
But back to my original point: Bullshit.
Great. Now we have a bloated XML-format instead of a fast documented binary-format.
A lose-lose situation.
This will make Office as slow as cOOpycatOffice.
Good job, morons. Dig your own grave.
Good job, moron. Post as absolutely ignorantly as possible.
1)Where is this alleged "fast documented binary-format[sic]"? I haven't seen it.
2)What information do you have that suggests that the XML format will be bloated?
3)Even if we take 1 and 2 as given, I only see one "lose" what's the "lose-lose" about?
4)OpenOffice's speed issues are at startup, and don't appear to me to have anything at all to do with the file format. You'll note that the speed is not significantly improved when using other file formats.
5)It seems kind of like sour grapes to call OpenOffice "cOOpycatOffice", given that Microsoft started out with Office by copying what Wordperfect and Lotus were doing.
So there you have it. Once you get through that, there isn't a single word in your post still standing. 100% pure bullshit. STFU.
Well, I had really hoped that some folks would get the joke, and see it as the reverse of the argument we see 40 times in every Linux story about how OSS "kills innovation" or whatever. Which, of course, is crackpot theory. But whatever. No funny mods for me.