which where rich in emotion but rather poor in science for the money.
An this would wrong. We got back a shit load of science for the investment in the apollo program. There is the technical knowledge. Advancements in rockets. We learned how to dock in space. How to land spaceships on another planet.
From the samples returned from the moon. We learned the age of the moon, and therefor the earth. We learned the origin earth and the moon system. We learned that the moon is moving away from the earth and about 1cm a year, which cause drag on the earth, which is the reason the day is getting longer. We learned that the moon might be a incredible source of energy.
And so on and on. In just raw science the program leading up to apollo and apollo itself might just be the best investment we ever made in the space program.
That is a the question. We are so consumed with the "can we" that we never stop to ask "should we?"
This will not end well. I don't mean as in end well a business loosing money. I mean as in cities burning and civilization falling. The old ones being release from their eternal prison and walking among us.
Earth will never become inhospitable like Venus or Mars. The KISS solution is fix this planet.
An you can guarantee this how? You can promise 100% that there will never be another impact like the one that caused the Chicxulub crater, or bigger? There are bigger rocks out there floating around.
You are 100% sure there will never be another Permianâ"Triassic extinction event that killed off 96% of all life on the planet? You know this 100% how?
You personally assure us that in the next 100, 1000, or even the next 10,000 years none of these events will ever happen again?
Mars will never be a living breathing planet like Earth. It will always be a artificial world. Sure, we may terraform it but given time it will revert to how it is now. It may take a few million years but Mars will eventually die, again. Terra forming Mars will always be a never ending project.
Venus has the mass, and the gravity that is pretty close to Earth. It could be another Earth, eventually. The things you brought up, 800 degree, acid atmosphere, are actually the easiest to correct. Not that doing them will actually be easy.
The real issue is changing the rotation of the planet, maybe its orbit, and starting plate tectonics. These are all theoretically possible but would not be very easy to accomplish. An not something short of a level 2 civilization could accomplish. So, we are looking at thousands of years in the future.
But compared to terraforming Venus, Mars would be a cake walk. I'm also not saying we shouldn't terraform Mars. I just think eventually Venus would be a better candidate.
Actually now that you mention it, I have. Sort of. Some of my code was worked into some of the control systems on the early ISS. It was only a few lines, but it did make it into the final release. I'm sure it's been replaced by now but yeah, some of my code did go into a space craft.
An if you must know, most of my knowledge on the subject came from the original papers. You can find them on websites but when I was doing my research you couldn't.
I think we are done here. Go do some reading. Maybe one day you will understand the concepts we are talking about here. But, alas, that day is not today.
Admitting that you are clueless and ignorant on a subject doesn't make you an idiot. What makes you a idiot is choosing to remain ignorant and clueless on a subject. What makes you a jackass is choosing to remain ignorant and clueless on a subject while ridiculing people who are not.
You know. I thought you where just clueless and maybe ignorant. But you're actually a idiot. That is pretty said. In the past I've noticed that you have said a few things that where rather cleaver. Oh well, another one for the freak file.
Yeah, whatever 01100100011101010110110101100010011000010111001101110011. Why dont' you go find a forum that is more your speed. I hear there are a few good flat earth discussions out there. Those are probably more your speed.
Yes, its a concept. Probably not one you can understand. An so was the integrated circuit 50 years ago and radio before that. Concepts that eventually got built. Everything starts as a concept. If we went by your logic then we would still be huddled in caves and poking dinner with sharp sticks.
I suspect the idea is to move it to a different orbit, and/or change its day period. As far as I understand, either or both is possible with a Dyson motor.
An you would be right. My whole concept that Venus would be a better terraforming subject than Mars is based on the concept of a dyson motor. Right now the dyson motor is just a concept on paper but the logic and math are sound. Doesn't mean we are going to do it, just means its plausible. There would still be a lot of research to be done and not to mention the capacity is so far beyond our ability, all we can do is research on the subject.
No you don't. You dont' have a clue. I'm not sure if you are just to lazy to do any real research or just not capable of understanding the research.
An also you don't know anything about people that work on space technology. Because this is exactly what a lot of them do. They speculate and make plans on things that we might be able to do and what benefits they would have. Yes there are people at nasa that discuss terraforming venus and mars. They design and build simulations on space colonies and other as you say fantasy technology. An I know this for a fact, because I used to live in Huntsville as a system developer. I worked with the people that do this and even coded some of the experiments for them. I knew the people that do this at NASA.
I think I agree. Plausible is probably a much better word. There is lot of unknowns and lots of things can go wrong with things we don't expect.
Like a year ago I did some experiments with Universal Sandbox on moving Venus to different orbit for terraforming. I thought that I could just add energy to the motion of the planet and it would move to a higher orbit. Nope. It did something I didn't expect. I dropped it in to the sun.
It took me several days to get the simulation right. What I learned is you have to change the orbital motion slightly at certain points in the planets orbit to achieve the desired outcome. Other wise you drop it into the sun or eject it from the solar system. After I got it right I was able to put venus in a stable orbit between mars and earth, in the goldielock zone while keeping all 3 planets in a stable orbit.
Something else happened in that experiment just by sheer luck. In one of the experiments I sent the orbit of venus out beyond mars. The orbit turned out to be stable, so I left it there and left the simulation running. When I came back, according to the simulation, the surface temperature had dropped from 300C to 62C.
Actually, this does look interesting. I'm looking at some papers and some documenters on the subject right now. I'm still not convinced the feasibility of the subject but I'm willing to look into it.
You see, 01100110011101010110001101101011 01110100011000010111001001100100, that is the difference between you and the rest of us. When one of us hears of a concept we don't understand we research it. Where you just ridicule it.
It is a pretty radical concept but give who came up with it, and the science behind it seems sound. What I would like someone to do is look at the concept and tell me what it has to do with terraforming Venus.
The problem that humanity has is it's inability to act in accordance with Nature, and Nature's left-hook as a result. Solve that first before spreading it throughout the universe.
What makes you think that spreading through out the universe is against nature? One thing that life does is expand into all areas that it is compatible with. We could call that phase one life, adapting to fit the environment.
Humanity could be phase two life. Adapting the environment to fit life. Seems to me that humanity isn't the problem but the solution. Does that mean we have a lot of shit to figure out? Yes it does. Are we going to make mistakes along the way. Yes we will.
But that is the beauty of life. If we fail, then given enough time life will try again.
Yes he is trolling. Or he's a dick about the topic to such a degree that it is indistinguishable from trolling. Either way don't waste your time.
I'm going to have to agree. I keep saying he is uneducated, other than just an idiot, because he keeps bring up old disproven theories. He also seems to have issues distinguishing between space fantasy and science fiction subject that have strong science behind them. Such as O'Neill colonies and planet terraforming. All these things are possible. Doesn't mean they will happen, just that they are possible.
Anyway, I keep hoping someone else would come in that would be interested in having an intelligent conversation on the subjects.
See why you are clueless? You think Star Trek has anything to do with this. You think people are thinking of leaving it as it is? Your problem is you are to narrow minded to really understand. One of the benefits of being a space based society is we can move the problems that pollute Earth off planet. Part of the fall out from space based technology would also help to elevate the issues that cause climate change.
You really should spend time reading up on this subject instead of just bashing it. Anyone can tell you really don't have a clue about what you are talking about. All of this can be done. Will it all be done? Probably not. But given time we can accomplish a great deal. Open your mind and read up on the subject.
Slashdot Mirror
which where rich in emotion but rather poor in science for the money.
An this would wrong. We got back a shit load of science for the investment in the apollo program. There is the technical knowledge. Advancements in rockets. We learned how to dock in space. How to land spaceships on another planet.
From the samples returned from the moon. We learned the age of the moon, and therefor the earth. We learned the origin earth and the moon system. We learned that the moon is moving away from the earth and about 1cm a year, which cause drag on the earth, which is the reason the day is getting longer. We learned that the moon might be a incredible source of energy.
And so on and on. In just raw science the program leading up to apollo and apollo itself might just be the best investment we ever made in the space program.
Why?
That is a the question. We are so consumed with the "can we" that we never stop to ask "should we?"
This will not end well. I don't mean as in end well a business loosing money. I mean as in cities burning and civilization falling. The old ones being release from their eternal prison and walking among us.
This Will End in Ashes and Fire!
No ideal. I've not looked into the freak/foe system in years. Some times I miss usenet and a good killfile.
Earth will never become inhospitable like Venus or Mars. The KISS solution is fix this planet.
An you can guarantee this how? You can promise 100% that there will never be another impact like the one that caused the Chicxulub crater, or bigger? There are bigger rocks out there floating around.
You are 100% sure there will never be another Permianâ"Triassic extinction event that killed off 96% of all life on the planet? You know this 100% how?
You personally assure us that in the next 100, 1000, or even the next 10,000 years none of these events will ever happen again?
Why Venus?
Mars will never be a living breathing planet like Earth. It will always be a artificial world. Sure, we may terraform it but given time it will revert to how it is now. It may take a few million years but Mars will eventually die, again. Terra forming Mars will always be a never ending project.
Venus has the mass, and the gravity that is pretty close to Earth. It could be another Earth, eventually. The things you brought up, 800 degree, acid atmosphere, are actually the easiest to correct. Not that doing them will actually be easy.
The real issue is changing the rotation of the planet, maybe its orbit, and starting plate tectonics. These are all theoretically possible but would not be very easy to accomplish. An not something short of a level 2 civilization could accomplish. So, we are looking at thousands of years in the future.
But compared to terraforming Venus, Mars would be a cake walk. I'm also not saying we shouldn't terraform Mars. I just think eventually Venus would be a better candidate.
Did they remove the freak setting from /.? I can only assign 0110100101100100011010010110111101110100 as a foe but I think freak is more appropriate.
I'm beginning to think that coming down out of the trees in the first place was a bad move.
I think we are both on that page right now.
Ever built a spacecraft?
Actually now that you mention it, I have. Sort of. Some of my code was worked into some of the control systems on the early ISS. It was only a few lines, but it did make it into the final release. I'm sure it's been replaced by now but yeah, some of my code did go into a space craft.
An if you must know, most of my knowledge on the subject came from the original papers. You can find them on websites but when I was doing my research you couldn't.
I think we are done here. Go do some reading. Maybe one day you will understand the concepts we are talking about here. But, alas, that day is not today.
Yeah. I can see your point. I like to think as we advance we will eventually understand ourselves better and maybe correct the issues as we do.
Admitting that you are clueless and ignorant on a subject doesn't make you an idiot. What makes you a idiot is choosing to remain ignorant and clueless on a subject. What makes you a jackass is choosing to remain ignorant and clueless on a subject while ridiculing people who are not.
You know. I thought you where just clueless and maybe ignorant. But you're actually a idiot. That is pretty said. In the past I've noticed that you have said a few things that where rather cleaver. Oh well, another one for the freak file.
Take care
Yes, its a concept. Probably not one you can understand. An so was the integrated circuit 50 years ago and radio before that. Concepts that eventually got built. Everything starts as a concept. If we went by your logic then we would still be huddled in caves and poking dinner with sharp sticks.
I suspect the idea is to move it to a different orbit, and/or change its day period. As far as I understand, either or both is possible with a Dyson motor.
An you would be right. My whole concept that Venus would be a better terraforming subject than Mars is based on the concept of a dyson motor. Right now the dyson motor is just a concept on paper but the logic and math are sound. Doesn't mean we are going to do it, just means its plausible. There would still be a lot of research to be done and not to mention the capacity is so far beyond our ability, all we can do is research on the subject.
No you don't. You dont' have a clue. I'm not sure if you are just to lazy to do any real research or just not capable of understanding the research.
An also you don't know anything about people that work on space technology. Because this is exactly what a lot of them do. They speculate and make plans on things that we might be able to do and what benefits they would have. Yes there are people at nasa that discuss terraforming venus and mars. They design and build simulations on space colonies and other as you say fantasy technology. An I know this for a fact, because I used to live in Huntsville as a system developer. I worked with the people that do this and even coded some of the experiments for them. I knew the people that do this at NASA.
I think I agree. Plausible is probably a much better word. There is lot of unknowns and lots of things can go wrong with things we don't expect.
Like a year ago I did some experiments with Universal Sandbox on moving Venus to different orbit for terraforming. I thought that I could just add energy to the motion of the planet and it would move to a higher orbit. Nope. It did something I didn't expect. I dropped it in to the sun.
It took me several days to get the simulation right. What I learned is you have to change the orbital motion slightly at certain points in the planets orbit to achieve the desired outcome. Other wise you drop it into the sun or eject it from the solar system. After I got it right I was able to put venus in a stable orbit between mars and earth, in the goldielock zone while keeping all 3 planets in a stable orbit.
Something else happened in that experiment just by sheer luck. In one of the experiments I sent the orbit of venus out beyond mars. The orbit turned out to be stable, so I left it there and left the simulation running. When I came back, according to the simulation, the surface temperature had dropped from 300C to 62C.
Actually, this does look interesting. I'm looking at some papers and some documenters on the subject right now. I'm still not convinced the feasibility of the subject but I'm willing to look into it.
You see, 01100110011101010110001101101011 01110100011000010111001001100100, that is the difference between you and the rest of us. When one of us hears of a concept we don't understand we research it. Where you just ridicule it.
Oh look. The modtolls are out in force to day. Something really need to be done about that.
Dyson Motor, I just get piles and piles of crap on vacuum parts.
Don't you just love that? Here is a link to a basic article. It doesn't give all the details but gives enough to understand the concept.
http://spacearchaeology.org/?p...
It is a pretty radical concept but give who came up with it, and the science behind it seems sound. What I would like someone to do is look at the concept and tell me what it has to do with terraforming Venus.
The problem that humanity has is it's inability to act in accordance with Nature, and Nature's left-hook as a result. Solve that first before spreading it throughout the universe.
What makes you think that spreading through out the universe is against nature? One thing that life does is expand into all areas that it is compatible with. We could call that phase one life, adapting to fit the environment.
Humanity could be phase two life. Adapting the environment to fit life. Seems to me that humanity isn't the problem but the solution. Does that mean we have a lot of shit to figure out? Yes it does. Are we going to make mistakes along the way. Yes we will.
But that is the beauty of life. If we fail, then given enough time life will try again.
Yes he is trolling. Or he's a dick about the topic to such a degree that it is indistinguishable from trolling. Either way don't waste your time.
I'm going to have to agree. I keep saying he is uneducated, other than just an idiot, because he keeps bring up old disproven theories. He also seems to have issues distinguishing between space fantasy and science fiction subject that have strong science behind them. Such as O'Neill colonies and planet terraforming. All these things are possible. Doesn't mean they will happen, just that they are possible.
Anyway, I keep hoping someone else would come in that would be interested in having an intelligent conversation on the subjects.
See this shows why you are not educated enough to really understand the subject. Dyson sphere will not work. There is no way to make one stable.
emDrives have been proven not to work the way people thought they would. It is not a magic thruster less engine.
We already have a basic working space factory. Some manufacturing has been done on the ISS.
O'Neill stations are far in the future. We must walk before we can run.
An actually we do terraform patches of desert. Its call irrigation and the effects can be seen from space.
Incorrect. What is a dyson motor? An who proposed it? Complete with math to show that it would work?
I tell you what. Why dont' you tell me what one is first and who proposed it.
See why you are clueless? You think Star Trek has anything to do with this. You think people are thinking of leaving it as it is? Your problem is you are to narrow minded to really understand. One of the benefits of being a space based society is we can move the problems that pollute Earth off planet. Part of the fall out from space based technology would also help to elevate the issues that cause climate change.
You really should spend time reading up on this subject instead of just bashing it. Anyone can tell you really don't have a clue about what you are talking about. All of this can be done. Will it all be done? Probably not. But given time we can accomplish a great deal. Open your mind and read up on the subject.