we overlooked the "terrorist" contingent
Should be:
we "overlooked" the terrorist contingent
And now my question is: who's we? Because, I'm sure the Pentagon planners never overlooked anything.
Sorry but Ubuntu/Debian blows away OpenSuse when it comes to number of packages, and most importantly, repository coherence.
It is well known that Debian has the _most_ packages of the distros and it's fantastic for that hard-to-find, exotic stuff. However, Debian certainly doesn't blow openSUSE in "repository coherence". And, in my experience, finding the right, freshest repositories for Debian can be daunting sometimes when you're interested in that exotic stuff.
wham, RPM-Hell
Sorry, RPM-Hell is a phrase from a long gone millenium. Haven't seen it in years.
Updates, upgrades and new installs "Just Work(tm)
Well, yes. That is, for the bigger distros at least, the level of sophistication we're reaching nowadays.
I have been using OSes for more than 18 years. Of the three major ones, my favorite way to install software is the Ubuntu/Debian way.
Ok, a popular way of installing on openSUSE is smart (when invoked like 'smart --gui' it'll present you with an Synaptic-like interface), smart supports all types of RPM repos, deb repos, slackware repos, and up2date type mirrors(!). There really are other distros that ain't no dogs when it comes to package management besides Debian and sisters.
As for your XP authorizations story, sometimes it amazes me what Windows users have to put up with. Reminds me of a story I read yesterday. Some bozo on ZD-Blogs (i think) claimed that despite rumors Windows users are, in fact, very satisfied with Microsoft Windows. Good for a laugh;)
That is something basically nobody here gets, but Suse has no involvement in the Microsoft/Novell deal at all. In fact, the name Suse isn't used anymore the distro is called openSUSE nowadays. openSUSE is the "open" Novell development branch, just as Fedora was for Red Hat, except Novell still fully supports openSUSE ('wonder how long). openSUSE is excluded from the deal, only the Novell enterprise distros are part of it. Novell obviously has many patents of it's earlier days as a company, this stuff is what in the deal (think Zen).
Think of this as a heads up, 'cause this whole discussion is more than a bit stupid, if this fact is constantly missed.
That happens to be openSUSE nowadays, and it is totally unencumbered by any deal Novell has made with Microsoft. And if you used SuSE in the past you're probably interested to know that Yast2 is now a fast, complete and GPL'ed system configurationtool. If you install the smart packages, you can select repositories and update your machine synaptic-style. You'd find that allmost every interesting package can be found on the repositories for openSUSE (from MythTV to XDVDshrink and hugin to ltsp). Novell updates openSUSE like clockwork, and is equally like Red Hat and IBM a big force in kernel development. That makes openSUSE a popular, high quality, solid, open source distribution (and there aren't that many).
Now I know that Novell is very impopular now, but I think, that if openSUSE would disappear it would be loss for open source as a whole. And if also Xandros would disappear it really wouldn't be that great anymore.
Japan is an "only" in many things. And the history of Japanese democracy is more complicated than WWII -> conquest -> democracy. Anyway, I would not use Japan to make a point like that. But Germany is a poor example as well. Heh.
Yes, I'm sure that -logically speaking- he is completely right. After chaos comes order, and maybe even democracy. However, I find positively repulsive hearing economists speaking of kicking (other) countries in chaos, and they're probably thinking of the possibility of economical advantages, not democracy.
"The most direct method to bring equality and freedom to these places is literally to invade and occupy them, or use some other means to destabilize and depose the government there."
You got some examples of this method being successfully used?
I really don't know what those "Value Added Tax records" are, but I do know of many reduction cards used by bigger stores that are used for all kind of demographic profiling. And really, this is the choice you are given, convenience and better pricing against privacy concerns.
The same EU that wants this information to be easily accessable by everyone who has a "vested interest" to hunt down legal offenses?
No.
With 'everyone who has a "vested interest"' you mean the judge and secret services, don't you?
Without describing too closely what a "vested interest" could be or whether only other governments or even some private organisations can access that information at will.
No.
It is in fact exactly the other way around. These things are very precisely described.
Yes. What about them? The EU is harmonizing data privacy laws in the whole of Europe. Google, when operating in the EU, isn't exempt from these laws. And yes, absolutely, there are enormous privacy concerns with those retention laws (and I doubt that it'll be a big problem for the real terrorists).
It should be noted that not the emails themselves a kept, but the logs of the mailservers. Just as mobile phone records are kept and not the actual conversations. The differences there should be obvious.
"all companies will err on the side of making more revenue"
Yes, I agree. I find it disturbing that this must be explained so often. Also, I would like to add that this behavior should be fully expected from a company. And that is exactly why government should protect the general populace (and companies) from companies with law.
"EU government snooping"??? There is NO such thing. There are, however, EU laws regarding "snooping". But that is really something different. (You were thinking of the British government that's snooping, CCD cams come to mind).
"Personally I find the EU government snooping worse than Google, at least Google is a product choice, government laws can't be worked around."
Let's just straighten this remark out: "I can stop using Google, and with the next elections I can send my government home." these are your choices.
Sorry, the way you Brits ALWAYS blame the continent for... everything, is pathetic.
PS No one will probably see this since/. is the most censored forum I have ever seen in the many years I have surfed the net.
Then don't be an AC, you stupid ass.
Slashdot Mirror
Really? I thought Al Queda's leader was part of the George Bush incroud, or family, or something...
Yes, and I distinctly remember Al Qaeda being somewhere in this story, as well.
we overlooked the "terrorist" contingent
Should be:
we "overlooked" the terrorist contingent
And now my question is: who's we? Because, I'm sure the Pentagon planners never overlooked anything.
Wrong.
He says Ubuntu is better than Windows, and he works as an sysadmin.
Sorry, RPM-Hell is a phrase from a long gone millenium. Haven't seen it in years.
Well, yes. That is, for the bigger distros at least, the level of sophistication we're reaching nowadays. Ok, a popular way of installing on openSUSE is smart (when invoked like 'smart --gui' it'll present you with an Synaptic-like interface), smart supports all types of RPM repos, deb repos, slackware repos, and up2date type mirrors(!). There really are other distros that ain't no dogs when it comes to package management besides Debian and sisters.
As for your XP authorizations story, sometimes it amazes me what Windows users have to put up with. Reminds me of a story I read yesterday. Some bozo on ZD-Blogs (i think) claimed that despite rumors Windows users are, in fact, very satisfied with Microsoft Windows. Good for a laugh
That is something basically nobody here gets, but Suse has no involvement in the Microsoft/Novell deal at all. In fact, the name Suse isn't used anymore the distro is called openSUSE nowadays. openSUSE is the "open" Novell development branch, just as Fedora was for Red Hat, except Novell still fully supports openSUSE ('wonder how long). openSUSE is excluded from the deal, only the Novell enterprise distros are part of it. Novell obviously has many patents of it's earlier days as a company, this stuff is what in the deal (think Zen).
Think of this as a heads up, 'cause this whole discussion is more than a bit stupid, if this fact is constantly missed.
That happens to be openSUSE nowadays, and it is totally unencumbered by any deal Novell has made with Microsoft. And if you used SuSE in the past you're probably interested to know that Yast2 is now a fast, complete and GPL'ed system configurationtool. If you install the smart packages, you can select repositories and update your machine synaptic-style. You'd find that allmost every interesting package can be found on the repositories for openSUSE (from MythTV to XDVDshrink and hugin to ltsp). Novell updates openSUSE like clockwork, and is equally like Red Hat and IBM a big force in kernel development. That makes openSUSE a popular, high quality, solid, open source distribution (and there aren't that many).
Now I know that Novell is very impopular now, but I think, that if openSUSE would disappear it would be loss for open source as a whole. And if also Xandros would disappear it really wouldn't be that great anymore.
No. Try to read the other replies, please.
Japan is an "only" in many things. And the history of Japanese democracy is more complicated than WWII -> conquest -> democracy. Anyway, I would not use Japan to make a point like that. But Germany is a poor example as well. Heh.
Yes, I'm sure that -logically speaking- he is completely right. After chaos comes order, and maybe even democracy. However, I find positively repulsive hearing economists speaking of kicking (other) countries in chaos, and they're probably thinking of the possibility of economical advantages, not democracy.
Is that the best you can do? The two major losers of WWII. Both countries also had experience with democracy, Germamy extensive. Sorry, no good.
"The most direct method to bring equality and freedom to these places is literally to invade and occupy them, or use some other means to destabilize and depose the government there."
You got some examples of this method being successfully used?
I really don't know what those "Value Added Tax records" are, but I do know of many reduction cards used by bigger stores that are used for all kind of demographic profiling. And really, this is the choice you are given, convenience and better pricing against privacy concerns.
It's called "The Great Red Shift Swindle".
First 3 trillion.
And now you tell us 20 billion!
What's next? You're scaring me, man.
So, in this expanding universe, 3.000.000.000.000 years from now, we will seem to be in a dark void. Sorry, that's no suprise to me.
With 'everyone who has a "vested interest"' you mean the judge and secret services, don't you? No.
It is in fact exactly the other way around. These things are very precisely described.
Yes. What about them? The EU is harmonizing data privacy laws in the whole of Europe. Google, when operating in the EU, isn't exempt from these laws. And yes, absolutely, there are enormous privacy concerns with those retention laws (and I doubt that it'll be a big problem for the real terrorists).
It should be noted that not the emails themselves a kept, but the logs of the mailservers. Just as mobile phone records are kept and not the actual conversations. The differences there should be obvious.
"all companies will err on the side of making more revenue"
Yes, I agree. I find it disturbing that this must be explained so often. Also, I would like to add that this behavior should be fully expected from a company. And that is exactly why government should protect the general populace (and companies) from companies with law.
"EU government snooping"??? There is NO such thing. There are, however, EU laws regarding "snooping". But that is really something different. (You were thinking of the British government that's snooping, CCD cams come to mind).
"Personally I find the EU government snooping worse than Google, at least Google is a product choice, government laws can't be worked around."
Let's just straighten this remark out: "I can stop using Google, and with the next elections I can send my government home." these are your choices.
Sorry, the way you Brits ALWAYS blame the continent for... everything, is pathetic.
PS No one will probably see this since /. is the most censored forum I have ever seen in the many years I have surfed the net.
Then don't be an AC, you stupid ass.
We spawned you, hahahahaha!
"so long as they don't violate an agreement I made with them, they aren't conning me"
Yes, that is very "insightful". However, since you have no way of knowing what google does, you don't know if google is conning you.