This comparison is pointless and simply minded or just a troll. Security is about layers, so who really cares, one layer or another always needs attention, sanity, and in particluar maintenance. The parent had good points, but still, again, who really cares about out of the box? No one who should have a job setting up servers. Out of the box my bricked Nintendo is very secure. Or should we say OpenBSD for all cases? No of course not.
It is too bad you anon cowarded this, but I will reply anyway. Your lib sounds fantastic, I wish it had Windows support. I have been mainly looking for a replacement for mod_perl/mod_proxy combination. Re node, I notice they have a lib just to deal with the single thread issue of one fatal error taking down the whole server, and the caution on CPU intensive opperations seems to mean you have to create some extra complexity in offloading that, because to me, even parsing a big block of json could be considered in that realm.. So the end results is that node is for passing small messages around really fast and not doing much with them, but we have enough chat severs already...
I don't really follow what this guy is talking about in general. But one thing I have noticed is that documentation quality on new tools/APIs has steadily gone downhill. For example, I am really excited about node.js, but on the page proper, their docs just dump some bits of info on standard functions. That ends up making learning something new, really fast, more difficult than it used to be because you have to go to 3rd party sources, they may be full of crap, way out of date or both. It is one thing to have to put in your time to get comfortable with something new, but it is another to have to act like you are hacking a black box to learn it.
What I want to know, why are people modding up such an opinionated piece of drivel from an anon coward? This so called debate is old and sad. People choose to learn what they think is important. Most employers seem to think getting the work done FAST and not blowing things up is important. I have worked for employers for 20 years now and taught myself what I needed to know. I also went to school and took calc, chem, physics, have read constantly for my whole life, whatever, it didn't have a damn thing to do with what I work on now or my approach to learning. That started from when I was young, not college. So this talk of making a big distinction between those who go to college/university and those who do not, is "uneducated" and a false start to any conversation.
"New technologies, once exciting for the sake of newness, now seem like hassles. I'm less and less tolerant of hokey marketing filled with superlatives. I value stability and clarity."
Why the bloody hell does ANYONE DO ANYTHING but drink coffee at Starbucks? All of these god damn log me out in 10 min apps drive me nuts and it is all because of dumbasses at Starbucks...
Where does the money go? Not generalizations, but accounts. If research is paid for by outsiders, if sports pay for itself, then where is this ever growing cost of education coming from?
Are you sure you didn't post that as anon so you could make your point? Can you prove you didn't? What was that point again? I think it is the GOP who likes to call anyone who as a different opinion, a "Bigot" On the thoughtful post from bobbied, the U.S. does seem to do this a lot. I think the U.S. almost has an overkill factor in terms of "security" as a result. What is it something like 60 countries we have some form of military assistance agreement with? I don't think you have to be a so called conservative to look at the money being spent and wondering a little at what else that could have purchased. There is no question though, Military power is followed by economic opportunity, so that calculation is going to be a pretty complex one, not just dollars for missile system A in exchange for infrastructure program B.
I don't get what "state run" is suppose to mean, but excessively homogeneous oh hell yeah. It is much less clear who the people are influencing that homogeneity. Some of it is pure profit motive, that is clear enough, but the rest, like why is climate change always a "debate"? That is the scary stuff.
I get this, a little bit, although I didn't get to have the same experence. About 10 years ago I was shopping for servers and started talking to some people at Sun. One thing that amazed me is that they were all so happy. The other is just that I increasingly got the feeling that I didn't really know shit about servers because of my only having experence with PC/Intel type hardware. I know the mainframe type people say the same types of things, hot swap everything, machines that could run for years and were expected to do so, it wasn't a wow, it was a duh to do that... The whole env just made me feel like yeah, this kind of pride and high goals is what makes me feel good about doing any job. It is so missing today in most any place I have worked.
What seems to be the sad fact, you can admire the pretty fish and feel good about what it ads to the world or eat it and you have a meal, you can do a supiour job and really be proud of your work and save some money too, but that still looks crappy next to ANY short term gain and most people you can work for will eat the fish and yours too.
It isn't just the heavyweight issue, it was the lack of experence we had with it combined with in ablity to really interegrate with the DOM and Javascript. Had Java applets focused on working with the browser instead of as their own little world a bit more, Flash wouldn't have needed to exist. Flash still is a pain next to HTML5 though, so everyone needs to evole or die, nothing new in that.
My one experence with applets was to use them as a PC/Mac counter part to a VB3 specialized calculator app(Clay Bricks). It worked, but the dev time was insane next to what it would take to do the same thing in just plain JS.
HaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA In Europe, even if there is some degree of lipservice going on, there is some real teeth in a LAW.
DNT was a joke from the start with nothing to back it up.
You have to change nearly everything about how Drupal works to make it work well on a large site, or a large number of sites. So where is the "standard"? What it does with MySQL DB by default, as one example, is an absolute travesty. Then you run into, oh I can't build my massive site using nodes, it will blow up, so lets use templates, but now we have to mange templates, lets build something for that, oh now caching, how well does it deal with a big server farm, oh need patches and work on that too. Oh it isn't OOP so I have to do alot of extra work and process to keep the maintaince programmers from blowing everything up on multiple sites because they just know a little PHP and want to work in that all of the time vs the system you built.
It is like so many other things, people spend tens of thousands of man hours on making it work, then say, Drupal is great! Just fucking amazes me. Of course Drupal isn't unique in that.
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I like the mention of West Point. Good reminder that this is institutional, not just one administration.
Still get through the firehose? SICK TO DEATH of this topic.
This comparison is pointless and simply minded or just a troll. Security is about layers, so who really cares, one layer or another always needs attention, sanity, and in particluar maintenance. The parent had good points, but still, again, who really cares about out of the box? No one who should have a job setting up servers. Out of the box my bricked Nintendo is very secure. Or should we say OpenBSD for all cases? No of course not.
Absolutely yes.
It is too bad you anon cowarded this, but I will reply anyway. Your lib sounds fantastic, I wish it had Windows support. I have been mainly looking for a replacement for mod_perl/mod_proxy combination. Re node, I notice they have a lib just to deal with the single thread issue of one fatal error taking down the whole server, and the caution on CPU intensive opperations seems to mean you have to create some extra complexity in offloading that, because to me, even parsing a big block of json could be considered in that realm.. So the end results is that node is for passing small messages around really fast and not doing much with them, but we have enough chat severs already...
I don't really follow what this guy is talking about in general. But one thing I have noticed is that documentation quality on new tools/APIs has steadily gone downhill. For example, I am really excited about node.js, but on the page proper, their docs just dump some bits of info on standard functions. That ends up making learning something new, really fast, more difficult than it used to be because you have to go to 3rd party sources, they may be full of crap, way out of date or both. It is one thing to have to put in your time to get comfortable with something new, but it is another to have to act like you are hacking a black box to learn it.
What I want to know, why are people modding up such an opinionated piece of drivel from an anon coward? This so called debate is old and sad. People choose to learn what they think is important. Most employers seem to think getting the work done FAST and not blowing things up is important. I have worked for employers for 20 years now and taught myself what I needed to know. I also went to school and took calc, chem, physics, have read constantly for my whole life, whatever, it didn't have a damn thing to do with what I work on now or my approach to learning. That started from when I was young, not college. So this talk of making a big distinction between those who go to college/university and those who do not, is "uneducated" and a false start to any conversation.
"New technologies, once exciting for the sake of newness, now seem like hassles. I'm less and less tolerant of hokey marketing filled with superlatives. I value stability and clarity."
I will mod that one way up.
Why the bloody hell does ANYONE DO ANYTHING but drink coffee at Starbucks? All of these god damn log me out in 10 min apps drive me nuts and it is all because of dumbasses at Starbucks...
This needs mod up.. This is the most important thing to learn.
I bet you use too.
Where does the money go? Not generalizations, but accounts. If research is paid for by outsiders, if sports pay for itself, then where is this ever growing cost of education coming from?
Are you sure you didn't post that as anon so you could make your point? Can you prove you didn't? What was that point again? I think it is the GOP who likes to call anyone who as a different opinion, a "Bigot" On the thoughtful post from bobbied, the U.S. does seem to do this a lot. I think the U.S. almost has an overkill factor in terms of "security" as a result. What is it something like 60 countries we have some form of military assistance agreement with? I don't think you have to be a so called conservative to look at the money being spent and wondering a little at what else that could have purchased. There is no question though, Military power is followed by economic opportunity, so that calculation is going to be a pretty complex one, not just dollars for missile system A in exchange for infrastructure program B.
I can't tell if you are serious or not. Horrid people did that at one time with CGI..
a dick.
That was the point dick head. Never meant to was the problem.
I don't get what "state run" is suppose to mean, but excessively homogeneous oh hell yeah. It is much less clear who the people are influencing that homogeneity. Some of it is pure profit motive, that is clear enough, but the rest, like why is climate change always a "debate"? That is the scary stuff.
I get this, a little bit, although I didn't get to have the same experence. About 10 years ago I was shopping for servers and started talking to some people at Sun. One thing that amazed me is that they were all so happy. The other is just that I increasingly got the feeling that I didn't really know shit about servers because of my only having experence with PC/Intel type hardware. I know the mainframe type people say the same types of things, hot swap everything, machines that could run for years and were expected to do so, it wasn't a wow, it was a duh to do that... The whole env just made me feel like yeah, this kind of pride and high goals is what makes me feel good about doing any job. It is so missing today in most any place I have worked. What seems to be the sad fact, you can admire the pretty fish and feel good about what it ads to the world or eat it and you have a meal, you can do a supiour job and really be proud of your work and save some money too, but that still looks crappy next to ANY short term gain and most people you can work for will eat the fish and yours too.
I used to love those stack traces, until I worked with something (to me) really big like Alfresco.
It isn't just the heavyweight issue, it was the lack of experence we had with it combined with in ablity to really interegrate with the DOM and Javascript. Had Java applets focused on working with the browser instead of as their own little world a bit more, Flash wouldn't have needed to exist. Flash still is a pain next to HTML5 though, so everyone needs to evole or die, nothing new in that. My one experence with applets was to use them as a PC/Mac counter part to a VB3 specialized calculator app(Clay Bricks). It worked, but the dev time was insane next to what it would take to do the same thing in just plain JS.
HaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA In Europe, even if there is some degree of lipservice going on, there is some real teeth in a LAW. DNT was a joke from the start with nothing to back it up.
I am so sick of this same FA reposted more or less every week or two.
Yep, there is the "standard" Heh.. It is so flexable.... :p
You have to change nearly everything about how Drupal works to make it work well on a large site, or a large number of sites. So where is the "standard"? What it does with MySQL DB by default, as one example, is an absolute travesty. Then you run into, oh I can't build my massive site using nodes, it will blow up, so lets use templates, but now we have to mange templates, lets build something for that, oh now caching, how well does it deal with a big server farm, oh need patches and work on that too. Oh it isn't OOP so I have to do alot of extra work and process to keep the maintaince programmers from blowing everything up on multiple sites because they just know a little PHP and want to work in that all of the time vs the system you built. It is like so many other things, people spend tens of thousands of man hours on making it work, then say, Drupal is great! Just fucking amazes me. Of course Drupal isn't unique in that.
See the part about his family, dick head, and see how much choice that brings at times.