"Do these climate models take into account the fact that Volcanoes erupt from time to time"
YES. Look carefully and you will find that models usually assume one large eruption per decade. The predicted cooling from the models assumptions was remarkably acurate in the case of observations from Mt Pinatubo, furthermore those predictions came from a model created 20yrs ago!
"Weird, I'm using my reliance on actual figures to support my conclusion that it isn't"
No you are relying on Bob Carter who says: "the role of peer review in scientific literature was overstressed, and whether or not a scientist had been funded by the fossil fuel industry was irrelevant to the validity of research"
"Weird" how pseudo-skeptics like Carter opt for lobbying instead of publishing. Sad how many people are still desperately clinging to their politically inspired FUD.
"And actually, he's not really a climatologist; he's a paleonolotist"
Bob Carter claims to be all sorts of things, I belive his basic education was in geology. He is from the "Institute of Public Affairs" who are basically anti-science lobbyists for the coal and other industries here in Oz.
Listening to his opinion on AGW is akin to listening to Ivan the Terrible's opinion on human rights.
"I think you guys just need to stop being so angry at the world."
I don't think it's anger, I think it's fear. Here in Oz we have bolt action rifles and shotguns for sportsmen, "self defence" is not a valid reason for obtaining a shooters license. Even before our strict gun laws very few people owned hand guns, I can't imagine living in a country where fear of your fellow countrymen is the norm.
As for our government, they are too disorganised to run a totalitarian state, if they tried most of the victims would die laughing.
Those natuaral variations include solar flux but not susnspots, the reason being is that there is not a scrap of hard evidence that sunspots affect Earth's climate but there is plenty of evidence they affect book sales.
"that at least some climate activity isn't and can't be affected by humans"
Been reading Andrew Bolt's fact free opinion columns have we? Nobody who has read the IPCC reports could possibly belive that scientists dispute the existance of natural variations but plenty of politically motivated, anti-science trolls have claimed EVERYTHING can be explained by natural variation. Not the least amoung these lying hypocrites is the coal industry's pet senator Barnaby Joyce.
The fact that Melbourne's dams are at their lowest level ever (for how many winter's in a row now?), or the fact that most of our major cities are on severe water rationing and scrambling to build giant de-sal plants, or the fact that our grain harvest has been cut in half for all but 2 of the last 10 yrs, may not bother you, but it certainly bothers farmers and most Aussies with more than a single brain cell.
"Furthermore, the big ideas should have been at the top of the summary, with the detail about the case down into the paragraphs. I know this and I've never had one single journalism class, albeit I did take the required writing and composition classes in college."
There is also some sort of rule about the facts and disclaimers coming either at the end of the story or in the court ordered retraction.
"And should they have been prosecuted? They formented a war ya know."
Good question. After the bushfires here in Australia there was an opinion columnist in the Sydney Morning Hearald calling for greens to be hung from lamposts and even went so far as to use the Green parties emblem. Even though she clearly broke our sedition laws I don't think the hatefull bitch should be prosecuted but I do think the SMH and the mass-media in general should disown her and her kind(NSFW).
Sending someone a snail mail death threat implies you know who they are and where they live. Going to the trouble of a physical cut and paste from magazines implies you are willing to expend time and effort on your threat.
"Microbes are found in almost every habitat present in nature."
The bacteria found in a human body outnumber the cells, however they only weigh a few kg's in total. Many of these bacteria live in a symbiotic relationship with our cells, we would die without them.
Citation
I've been a "greenie" since the 70's, the correct term for the people who reject technology is "luddite". I agree with your summary of greenpeace as do many of it's founders who left in disgust at the scientific ignorance of luddite policies such as campagining to stop chlorination of drinking water.
"I tend to think it is a work in progress until we can provide 100% proof that wood floats in water, or ice melts into water, etc...."
Not surprising you think it's "a work in progress", that is what it is supposed to be. Proof is for axiomatic systems. Science offers a way to make usefull predictions of the future with various degrees of certainty, that certainty never reaches 100% as it does in maths (and dare I say religion).
Sure you can demonstrate a piece of wood floats but that is not "100% proof" the same bit of wood will float the next time you try the experiment.
Actually I brand believers as wishfull thinkers, or brainwashed, or ignorant, or arrogant, or oppressed,..., but not foolish, foolish would imply they are stupid. If you listen to the full version of Adam's speech you will find that his metaphor is actually a summary of a rational explanation as to why a bunch of tool making apes were (and still are) predisposed to creating gods in their own image. Once you have convinced yourself of your assumption that there is an invisible man that built the universe especially for human's it's no much of a leap to make the assumption that he gave you an invisible soul that will outlive your body. Not believing those assumptions requires absolutely zero additional assumptions, all it requires is the lack of evidence that you already recognise.
The fact that the original sin was eating the fruit of the KNOWLEDGE tree tells me that the bronze age shaman who wrote it wanted to keep you in the dark, as far as I am concerned the billions of believers reading his words millenia after he wrote them demonstrates he succeded far beyond his wildest dreams.
Nice comeback, but do you really believe any programmer worth his pay cheque cannot pick up a new scripting language without spending a few years in collage? If you do then by your standards I must be a fucking genius simply because like many other mature age students I taught myself pascal, basic and 6502 assembly before setting foot in university.
Slashdot Mirror
I find it remarkable that pseudo-skeptics denigrate science by appealing to science.
"Do these climate models take into account the fact that Volcanoes erupt from time to time"
YES. Look carefully and you will find that models usually assume one large eruption per decade. The predicted cooling from the models assumptions was remarkably acurate in the case of observations from Mt Pinatubo, furthermore those predictions came from a model created 20yrs ago!
"Weird, I'm using my reliance on actual figures to support my conclusion that it isn't"
No you are relying on Bob Carter who says: "the role of peer review in scientific literature was overstressed, and whether or not a scientist had been funded by the fossil fuel industry was irrelevant to the validity of research"
"Weird" how pseudo-skeptics like Carter opt for lobbying instead of publishing. Sad how many people are still desperately clinging to their politically inspired FUD.
"And actually, he's not really a climatologist; he's a paleonolotist"
Bob Carter claims to be all sorts of things, I belive his basic education was in geology. He is from the "Institute of Public Affairs" who are basically anti-science lobbyists for the coal and other industries here in Oz.
Listening to his opinion on AGW is akin to listening to Ivan the Terrible's opinion on human rights.
A) When methane degrades in the atmosphere it turns into CO2 and water.
It's time we demanded an end the other global war
"I think you guys just need to stop being so angry at the world."
I don't think it's anger, I think it's fear. Here in Oz we have bolt action rifles and shotguns for sportsmen, "self defence" is not a valid reason for obtaining a shooters license. Even before our strict gun laws very few people owned hand guns, I can't imagine living in a country where fear of your fellow countrymen is the norm.
As for our government, they are too disorganised to run a totalitarian state, if they tried most of the victims would die laughing.
Those natuaral variations include solar flux but not susnspots, the reason being is that there is not a scrap of hard evidence that sunspots affect Earth's climate but there is plenty of evidence they affect book sales.
"that at least some climate activity isn't and can't be affected by humans"
Been reading Andrew Bolt's fact free opinion columns have we? Nobody who has read the IPCC reports could possibly belive that scientists dispute the existance of natural variations but plenty of politically motivated, anti-science trolls have claimed EVERYTHING can be explained by natural variation. Not the least amoung these lying hypocrites is the coal industry's pet senator Barnaby Joyce.
Here is what the BOM says about our climate and the permenant drought.
The fact that Melbourne's dams are at their lowest level ever (for how many winter's in a row now?), or the fact that most of our major cities are on severe water rationing and scrambling to build giant de-sal plants, or the fact that our grain harvest has been cut in half for all but 2 of the last 10 yrs, may not bother you, but it certainly bothers farmers and most Aussies with more than a single brain cell.
If you try any of those I'm sure you will find they do have consequences, granted they're not the ones you were thinking of.
"Furthermore, the big ideas should have been at the top of the summary, with the detail about the case down into the paragraphs. I know this and I've never had one single journalism class, albeit I did take the required writing and composition classes in college."
There is also some sort of rule about the facts and disclaimers coming either at the end of the story or in the court ordered retraction.
"And should they have been prosecuted? They formented a war ya know."
Good question. After the bushfires here in Australia there was an opinion columnist in the Sydney Morning Hearald calling for greens to be hung from lamposts and even went so far as to use the Green parties emblem. Even though she clearly broke our sedition laws I don't think the hatefull bitch should be prosecuted but I do think the SMH and the mass-media in general should disown her and her kind(NSFW).
Sending someone a snail mail death threat implies you know who they are and where they live. Going to the trouble of a physical cut and paste from magazines implies you are willing to expend time and effort on your threat.
"I imagine cold-blooded creatures would have more to worry about."
Don't tell the politicians they will pull the funding.
"Microbes are found in almost every habitat present in nature."
The bacteria found in a human body outnumber the cells, however they only weigh a few kg's in total. Many of these bacteria live in a symbiotic relationship with our cells, we would die without them. Citation
No big deal, you can make a simple pulse jet with a jam jar
"Microsoft, controlling your life since you were born."
Get off my lawn!
I've been a "greenie" since the 70's, the correct term for the people who reject technology is "luddite". I agree with your summary of greenpeace as do many of it's founders who left in disgust at the scientific ignorance of luddite policies such as campagining to stop chlorination of drinking water.
Calling eco-extremists "enviro" or "green" is about as useful and misleading as calling the KKK "conservative".
"The problem is increased efficiency demands increased complexity."
I have a jet engine that says you are wrong.
Here ya go, there is a "part two" in the related video's sidebar.
You are putting words in my mouth in the same way you put imaginary facts in your head.
"I tend to think it is a work in progress until we can provide 100% proof that wood floats in water, or ice melts into water, etc...."
Not surprising you think it's "a work in progress", that is what it is supposed to be. Proof is for axiomatic systems. Science offers a way to make usefull predictions of the future with various degrees of certainty, that certainty never reaches 100% as it does in maths (and dare I say religion).
Sure you can demonstrate a piece of wood floats but that is not "100% proof" the same bit of wood will float the next time you try the experiment.
Actually I brand believers as wishfull thinkers, or brainwashed, or ignorant, or arrogant, or oppressed,..., but not foolish, foolish would imply they are stupid. If you listen to the full version of Adam's speech you will find that his metaphor is actually a summary of a rational explanation as to why a bunch of tool making apes were (and still are) predisposed to creating gods in their own image. Once you have convinced yourself of your assumption that there is an invisible man that built the universe especially for human's it's no much of a leap to make the assumption that he gave you an invisible soul that will outlive your body. Not believing those assumptions requires absolutely zero additional assumptions, all it requires is the lack of evidence that you already recognise.
The fact that the original sin was eating the fruit of the KNOWLEDGE tree tells me that the bronze age shaman who wrote it wanted to keep you in the dark, as far as I am concerned the billions of believers reading his words millenia after he wrote them demonstrates he succeded far beyond his wildest dreams.
Nice comeback, but do you really believe any programmer worth his pay cheque cannot pick up a new scripting language without spending a few years in collage? If you do then by your standards I must be a fucking genius simply because like many other mature age students I taught myself pascal, basic and 6502 assembly before setting foot in university.