"Unfortunately, it's not that simple....in the end the students won't learn anything from the assignments and will run into trouble in the exams."
Sorry but it's very simple, a university should not be a rubber stamp for a good memory - it should teach you how to learn and a basic knowledge of what is already known in a particular field. The old adage of "cheaters should not prosper" applies, remorsefull students are usually given the option to try again next year.
If (like in TFA) a large number of people hand in obviously similar cut & paste assignments of the same source, then discuss with the class why they will ALL be given 1/number_of_copies of what the answer was worth. Also don't forget to thank them for saving you a lot of work marking what should have been unique answers.
Note that with this technique there is no need to go off on a wild goose chase investigating the source itself.
It's sounds like your course is similar to the one I taught, we sold course notes, previous tests, examplary assignment answers, etc through the uni bookstore at near cost. And yes, after a couple of sessions a decent instructor will figure out who does/doesn't know their stuff.
I would think it's a tough job for anyone to memorise that much published info, far easier to learn it.
As for obvious cheats and assignments, you just give them both zero and say nothing - the cheat always came and made their confession after class.
"Interestingly enough, people who smoke next to you on the street are *not* assaulting you. Apparently it's ok for a stranger to give you lung cancer, as long as they don't get you wet. There's something wrong there, no?"
No. I've been a smoker for 30yrs and even I can smell exhaust fumes from the cars while walking down the street or standing outside for a smoke. So cut the BS, get rid of that disgusting deodorant, stop eating garlic, and get out of my face if you don't like my odour.
I have known a few heroine addicts, I have watched them 'arrange' things, like spending two hours sorting out the scraps of paper in their otherwise empty wallet. I have also watched alcoholics do similar things. Truth be told, this guy is probably spraying a large number of his own customers that are getting their 'high' in a variety of ways.
He is probably most in danger of bodily harm from a group of drunken and/or drugged 16-25yo's running on impulse and testosterone. Oddly enough he makes a living running a bar.
Provided a student can't pass a course without passing the exam then IMHO it doesn't really matter if the text book answers are on the net.
I used to teach a C programming lab class at uni (circa 1992-4), I twice had students hand in printouts of someone else's work, right down to the mandatory name and student id in the comment header! Out of a class of ~40 there really were only a handfull of original works, the rest were original crap or 'derivitave works'.
The 'derivitave works' show that students collaborate, but to some degree that's what is SUPPOSED to happen. No matter how simply you explain pointers in C only about 10-15% will have it sink in on the second presentation, they had already seen it once in the lecture.
I would sometimes question the derivative works that I randomly judged as 'too similar'. The best reason I got was: "We are husband and wife, you want us stop talking about our studies."
I don't see why a "self learner" wouldn't WANT to go to university unless they already make 'enough' money and have nothing to learn, in which case I wouldn't be interviewing them, more likely they would be interviewing me!
I did at age 30 with 2 kids to look after. I'm now nearly 50 and think it's one of the smartest things I ever did, I got lucky with the timing since I graduated 2-3 yrs before the boom started in the 90's. I didn't learn a god dammn thing about Turbo Pascal because I had already taught myself, along with the 6502 instruction set and applesoft basic. Out of 160 starters in the course, 12 graduated alongside me within the standard 3yrs - like me these people were all 'self learners'.
Before going to uni I spent 15yrs in the workforce doing jobs that mainly required more brawn than brain, fishing trawlers, saw mill, building sites, fruit picking, a few depressing years shift work at a nylon plant, that kind of thing. 60hr weeks and I was still driving the family around in uninsured shit boxes, even living in a van for 6 months.
Having had that experience of being 'working poor' I can attest to the fact that reverse snobbery is not uncommon. You could try driving a cab or tending bar for a while, both jobs pay poorly but they both serve as excellent crash courses in human behaviour.
"I suspect that college is where rich parents send their predominately white kids to ensure they have better than fair odds at a cushy job."
I'm guessing by the 'ivy league' comment you live in the USA, I don't. Pennyless students were in the majority at the uni I went to.
Indeed, here in Australia the conservative party is called the Liberal party and the 'liberal' party is called the Labor party.
To make things worse the current Labor PM calls himself a fiscal conservative, the greens call themselves conservationists, and the conservatives claim to support liberal democracy.
Reconciling this confusing terminology is simple. They ALL claim to support UHC, therefore they must ALL be commies./sarcasm
"Why would something I can describe in math be any more real?"
Don't know, but it often is - perhaps maths is just mapping the functioning of our perceptions. Anyway because math has been usefull we continue to use it to model the real world and make testable predictions. TFA is describing a prediction that the LHC may falsify.
"Similarly, you can take a set of standard off-the-shelf gears and levers and build a machine which does something in a way that no one else has done before."
Yes, you could make a difference engine, a trajectory generator from maccano or a programmable chip. The question is now should every possible user setting of those machines be protected by patents?
Software is written (even if subsequently burned onto a chip), current copyright law is MORE than adequate.
Programming may well be closer to a linguistic skill than it is to a scientific one
Yes, you must first understand 'the problem', but that is the 'role' of an analyst. A programing language (unlike human language) is a mathematical construct.
Music and math are related but there also plenty of good programmers who have an electronic background as well. The thing is that with a CS degree I would hope the applicant would know something about The Art of Computer Programming and could answer questions based on the language of trees, lists, stack, ect.
A non-CS applicant may be so brilliant they idependently invented the main concepts in 'the art of programming' without ever reading knuth. However implementing your own ideas is one thing, understanding someone elses problem is another. With nothing else to judge by I would prefer the guy who has a (reputable) degree because at least I know they have spent 3-4yrs successfully researching and solving someone else's problems set out in exams and assignments. With a bit of luck they might also know something about the ubiquitous SDLC.
"Then of course, you have brought a lot of change to the country by exposing it to the free market"
Good greif, have you people never heard of the silk road? And didn't Columbus trip over America while trying to find a short cut to Asia?
Mao was a nut-job who did a 'back to nature' thing on China that makes Pol Pot look like a flower child. Since Mao's cultural revolution was abandoned, China has dragged more people above the poverty line than the rest of the planet put together.
China, like the US is a double edged sword for the rest of us. Since we are are hypocrites to one degree or another, here in Oz our new PM speaks both languages.
FWIW: I agree with the EU on the trade barrier thing, even if it comes to naught it still sends the right diplomatic message. I also think kiddie porn, snuff films and such are evidence of a crime, if anyone should 'own' the right to take it down, the victim (or nearest relative) should - not the public.
"a lot of the best coders I know have no CS experience and even have to Google for a lot of their standard library calls"
You have been mislead, computer science is not about API's. The CS degree I have had for ~2 decades was a 3yr basic science degree + CS + software engineering + operations research. Having said that, I have also worked with many good coders who started from a musical background programing MIDI devices, or an electronics background programming IC's, etc.
And never EVER EVER put a math/science person in charge of any sort of UI, no matter how good a coder they are.
Yeah, because they have no idea how to visualise complex data sets./sarcasm.
Seriously I'm not picking on you personaly, too many of the posts on this story commit the same error as TFA by pigeon-holing people into the standard stereotypes, such as 'super star', 'code monkey', 'script kiddie', etc. Newton's "shoulders of giants" comment applies to computer science/programming as much as it does to maths/physics.
Slashdot Mirror
"Unfortunately, it's not that simple....in the end the students won't learn anything from the assignments and will run into trouble in the exams."
Sorry but it's very simple, a university should not be a rubber stamp for a good memory - it should teach you how to learn and a basic knowledge of what is already known in a particular field. The old adage of "cheaters should not prosper" applies, remorsefull students are usually given the option to try again next year.
If (like in TFA) a large number of people hand in obviously similar cut & paste assignments of the same source, then discuss with the class why they will ALL be given 1/number_of_copies of what the answer was worth. Also don't forget to thank them for saving you a lot of work marking what should have been unique answers.
Note that with this technique there is no need to go off on a wild goose chase investigating the source itself.
It's sounds like your course is similar to the one I taught, we sold course notes, previous tests, examplary assignment answers, etc through the uni bookstore at near cost. And yes, after a couple of sessions a decent instructor will figure out who does/doesn't know their stuff.
I would think it's a tough job for anyone to memorise that much published info, far easier to learn it.
As for obvious cheats and assignments, you just give them both zero and say nothing - the cheat always came and made their confession after class.
"Interestingly enough, people who smoke next to you on the street are *not* assaulting you. Apparently it's ok for a stranger to give you lung cancer, as long as they don't get you wet. There's something wrong there, no?"
No. I've been a smoker for 30yrs and even I can smell exhaust fumes from the cars while walking down the street or standing outside for a smoke. So cut the BS, get rid of that disgusting deodorant, stop eating garlic, and get out of my face if you don't like my odour.
So a land mine is now an 'industrial accident'?
I have known a few heroine addicts, I have watched them 'arrange' things, like spending two hours sorting out the scraps of paper in their otherwise empty wallet. I have also watched alcoholics do similar things. Truth be told, this guy is probably spraying a large number of his own customers that are getting their 'high' in a variety of ways.
He is probably most in danger of bodily harm from a group of drunken and/or drugged 16-25yo's running on impulse and testosterone. Oddly enough he makes a living running a bar.
Let's just say it wouldn't be coming back to it's owner covered in used condoms.
"when the trespassers aren't carrying a weapon."
Yes, broken robocop logic is pretty freaky! Not as bad as arguing with an atom bomb, but still freaky!
Provided a student can't pass a course without passing the exam then IMHO it doesn't really matter if the text book answers are on the net.
I used to teach a C programming lab class at uni (circa 1992-4), I twice had students hand in printouts of someone else's work, right down to the mandatory name and student id in the comment header! Out of a class of ~40 there really were only a handfull of original works, the rest were original crap or 'derivitave works'.
The 'derivitave works' show that students collaborate, but to some degree that's what is SUPPOSED to happen. No matter how simply you explain pointers in C only about 10-15% will have it sink in on the second presentation, they had already seen it once in the lecture.
I would sometimes question the derivative works that I randomly judged as 'too similar'. The best reason I got was: "We are husband and wife, you want us stop talking about our studies."
Perhaps he is leading by example: Showing that art can sell itself, even if you let everyone look at, or listen to it.
Touche!
Add a graphing tool that plots statistics over time and it will also be easy to point to collapsing fisheries, diminishing harvests, etc.
"Skip DST entirely. No clock changes at all."
Not so fast! I'm sure a lot of Aussie readers would like to know what day you would pick as "the day to replace the battery in their fire alarm"?
Got a wiki link to 'prove' your bald assertions? /sarcasam
To cut the BS and go right to the heart of your philosophical confusion. You can't prove to me that you exist.
I don't see why a "self learner" wouldn't WANT to go to university unless they already make 'enough' money and have nothing to learn, in which case I wouldn't be interviewing them, more likely they would be interviewing me!
I did at age 30 with 2 kids to look after. I'm now nearly 50 and think it's one of the smartest things I ever did, I got lucky with the timing since I graduated 2-3 yrs before the boom started in the 90's. I didn't learn a god dammn thing about Turbo Pascal because I had already taught myself, along with the 6502 instruction set and applesoft basic. Out of 160 starters in the course, 12 graduated alongside me within the standard 3yrs - like me these people were all 'self learners'.
Before going to uni I spent 15yrs in the workforce doing jobs that mainly required more brawn than brain, fishing trawlers, saw mill, building sites, fruit picking, a few depressing years shift work at a nylon plant, that kind of thing. 60hr weeks and I was still driving the family around in uninsured shit boxes, even living in a van for 6 months.
Having had that experience of being 'working poor' I can attest to the fact that reverse snobbery is not uncommon. You could try driving a cab or tending bar for a while, both jobs pay poorly but they both serve as excellent crash courses in human behaviour.
"I suspect that college is where rich parents send their predominately white kids to ensure they have better than fair odds at a cushy job."
I'm guessing by the 'ivy league' comment you live in the USA, I don't. Pennyless students were in the majority at the uni I went to.
Speaking of OT retarded leaps of logic, good != legal either.
There are at least two good reasons fractal compression 'failed' as a general compresion algorithim...
1. It's not lossless.
2. Someone patented it, tried to gloss over the first problem and priced it out of the market.
Indeed, here in Australia the conservative party is called the Liberal party and the 'liberal' party is called the Labor party.
/sarcasm
To make things worse the current Labor PM calls himself a fiscal conservative, the greens call themselves conservationists, and the conservatives claim to support liberal democracy.
Reconciling this confusing terminology is simple. They ALL claim to support UHC, therefore they must ALL be commies.
"Why would something I can describe in math be any more real?"
Don't know, but it often is - perhaps maths is just mapping the functioning of our perceptions. Anyway because math has been usefull we continue to use it to model the real world and make testable predictions. TFA is describing a prediction that the LHC may falsify.
"Similarly, you can take a set of standard off-the-shelf gears and levers and build a machine which does something in a way that no one else has done before."
Yes, you could make a difference engine, a trajectory generator from maccano or a programmable chip. The question is now should every possible user setting of those machines be protected by patents?
Software is written (even if subsequently burned onto a chip), current copyright law is MORE than adequate.
If you want to make money, ignoring 80% of your potential market is irrational.
If you want a hobby that pays for itself, rationality doesn't come into it.
"... or just burn his fingers."
Gouge his eyes out, that'll learn him.
Programming may well be closer to a linguistic skill than it is to a scientific one
Yes, you must first understand 'the problem', but that is the 'role' of an analyst. A programing language (unlike human language) is a mathematical construct.
Music and math are related but there also plenty of good programmers who have an electronic background as well. The thing is that with a CS degree I would hope the applicant would know something about The Art of Computer Programming and could answer questions based on the language of trees, lists, stack, ect.
A non-CS applicant may be so brilliant they idependently invented the main concepts in 'the art of programming' without ever reading knuth. However implementing your own ideas is one thing, understanding someone elses problem is another. With nothing else to judge by I would prefer the guy who has a (reputable) degree because at least I know they have spent 3-4yrs successfully researching and solving someone else's problems set out in exams and assignments. With a bit of luck they might also know something about the ubiquitous SDLC.
"Then of course, you have brought a lot of change to the country by exposing it to the free market"
Good greif, have you people never heard of the silk road? And didn't Columbus trip over America while trying to find a short cut to Asia?
Mao was a nut-job who did a 'back to nature' thing on China that makes Pol Pot look like a flower child. Since Mao's cultural revolution was abandoned, China has dragged more people above the poverty line than the rest of the planet put together.
China, like the US is a double edged sword for the rest of us. Since we are are hypocrites to one degree or another, here in Oz our new PM speaks both languages.
FWIW: I agree with the EU on the trade barrier thing, even if it comes to naught it still sends the right diplomatic message. I also think kiddie porn, snuff films and such are evidence of a crime, if anyone should 'own' the right to take it down, the victim (or nearest relative) should - not the public.
"a lot of the best coders I know have no CS experience and even have to Google for a lot of their standard library calls"
/sarcasm.
You have been mislead, computer science is not about API's. The CS degree I have had for ~2 decades was a 3yr basic science degree + CS + software engineering + operations research. Having said that, I have also worked with many good coders who started from a musical background programing MIDI devices, or an electronics background programming IC's, etc.
And never EVER EVER put a math/science person in charge of any sort of UI, no matter how good a coder they are.
Yeah, because they have no idea how to visualise complex data sets.
Seriously I'm not picking on you personaly, too many of the posts on this story commit the same error as TFA by pigeon-holing people into the standard stereotypes, such as 'super star', 'code monkey', 'script kiddie', etc. Newton's "shoulders of giants" comment applies to computer science/programming as much as it does to maths/physics.