No, Joe SixPack should have a basic knowledge of computer before he can touch a mouse or keyboard that is hooked to the net.
do you expect people to know how to drive if they have seen a person drive a car at random times here a there for mere minutes at a time?...I hope not
To help alleviate the problem until the general public has a clue is to have the OS and programs install with minimal functionality as an industry requirement. How do get this accomplished, your guess is as good as mine...(well, maybe)
Microsoft is out there to make money and to continue making money. Increased security has to lead to increased revenue or at the very least less of a loss of market share than if nothing was done about security.
Like in college (CS grad, and don't be knocking that I am a CS grad, I have 2 years of programming experiance), my profs said "in a program of any significant size, the program can only be proven to have bugs, it can never be proven that it doesn't". I believe that the Windows OS is a program of significan size. So microsoft in very general terms must graph money put into security against profits. Where this graph peeks is where microsoft SHOULD stop putting money into security. If people want to change microsoft, then make that peek further down where they put more money into security. The flip side of that is that many people will probably be unhappy because the OS price may go up. In the end Microsoft has to graph something else. Money put into the OS to make people happy against profit. Where this peeks is where microft should stop pumping money in. So what this means is, is that Microsofts aim will never be to make everyone as happy as they can be about there OS, it isn't profittable.
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it!!!
Re:Go ask a Korean where science development occur
on
Human Accomplishment
·
· Score: 1
We (U.S.) often time "teach" or "lift" other nations when it benefits us.
Does the U.S. Spend billions upon billions in countries that have absolutely nothing to give back to the us? many central and south american countries fall into this country. An example on the other side is Iraq. The power that region has because of oil makes us keenly aware of that region and how we can help and in turn influence or look good with people of that region (often times looking good and influencing that region for our benifit do not coincide, sometimes the U.S. fails at both, but none the less we try). Compare Iraq to Samaria. A rare purely humanatarian effort by the U.S.. What happened when our servicemen begin to die. We pulled out. Conversely we stay in Iraq...why, well, I think the main reason is obvious. A major and often times pretty much the only reason a developed country helps out a less developed country is to GAIN something besides a warm tingly feeling of doing something good.
Developing countries don't rule with a iron fist for two major reasons. One, it hasn't worked in the past. Two, we are to interconnected, communications are too good.
by my logic WE DO NOT need more people pumping gas.
My point was that the government should protect abuse by companies to the general public rather than protecting jobs. How does that logic equate to me saying that we need more people pumping gas?
Your point to that Ted Strickland protected jobs doesn't really make sense. It is in the same category as in Oregon, where people pump your gas for you. I discussed this law with people I know (I recently moved here) and they all say they like the law because one they are too lazy to get out of the car and pump the gas themselves and two they like the idea that there are guranteed jobs out there for low skilled people. My answer to this is, is that it is not the governments job to create jobs just for the sake of creating jobs.
Saying that, I think it relates to the topic on hand because I think it is the governments job to handle abuse by companies. 50 million Americans signed up saying do not call me. I would conclude that a lot of people think that they are being abused by companies.
Now, in relation to this Ted Strickland. I think he made an unwise vote. I would think that there are a lot more than 500 people in his area that signed up for the do not call list. They are voters too.
(from a progammers point of view) (I lump Europeans with Americans because I believe that they are experiancing the same problem or will be soon)
ok, maybe the issue we should talk about is all the management for IT. Their jobs aren't getting shipped over seas (they don't want to move overseas or hire someone to do there jobs, that would be committing suicide). Until their jobs get shipped over or until foriegn companies take a bigger market share wee will not be in 'real big' trouble. The reason why management is one of the keys is because they are in charge of the projects. They want to see what is being built. They don't want to give a check out and wait, they want to be an integral part of the process. Because of this management will, at least for the time being, deal with the communicating between continents. This can be a real pain.
Another reason IT (programming jobs) are not totally in danger is because the 'proper' software process is virtually non existent in the real world. If you are fuzzy on what you want to do, then no matter how cheap the labor is, it is still going to cost companies a lot of money. Add this to the communication problems and I would think that around the same amount of money is spent. When companies realize this, they will probably hire local again.
Thirdly, and this is my weakest point, and virtually impossible to support, but because of the freedom Americans and Europeans enjoy they will always be a better better pool of IT (programmers specifically) workers.
Fourthly, dealing with smaller projects (company software...), I don't think foriegners can really compete. They don't have the access to users that locals have.
Excuse me, people put their own little sayings or sigs after their name and I am sure you thought some of them were lame or stupid, but did you reply to theirs hostily, probably not(if you did you have too much time on your hands). Why should me being a christian bring on such hostility. Every one in my office knows I am a christian, I keep a bible on my desk, right next to my programming reference. Is it your anonymity that gives you the freedom to bad mouth what I believe? It matters not what you think about me professing my faith we I wish to. Christian and proud of it!!!
Finally, someone that at least indirectly acknowledges that Microsoft oriented programming is at least worth reading about. I am like many people who read slashdot in that I think Microsoft doesn't play nice in the industry, but they are, like it or not, the de facto standard out there.
A company will act in its best interest and as an employee or former one there should be a certain amount of loyalty. Just because upper management can be thieving dishonest people does not give other the right to act that way.
Bottom line. This guy found the security flaw while working for the company. While he was an employee, he shouldn't have exposed the flaw like that.
The only way for a computer system to be completely secured is not to have one.
Having integrity seems to have lost something in this day and age...
There is a difference between a novice user and an expert user (duuuuhhh), but I feel that I need to explain this. People who care about getting things done efficiently, rarely use the close buttons (at least the people I know). They use keyboard short cuts. Alt-F4. People always talk about making things easier, but much of the time it is talk about as ridiculous as debating how to make peoples handwriting more legible. For instance, debating on how to change how you write an R so that it doesn't look so much like a B. Stop debating about such things and just write/read. If you care to take the time you can be a great reader or writer and cases such as those become moot. Same with UI issues. Bottom line, people need to invest in learning what UIs have to offer.
Agreed. I don't things are going to change anytime soon though. From my experiance (2 years developing), my supervisors push for features much more than stability or security.
I agree with you that the system admin isn't the most important position with most companies, but it is a vital link of the chain. I think this link is much of the time underappreciated both because many "users" in general are ignorant of what it means to be a sys admin and also because the sys admins I have known and from what I read about personailities of sys admins...well they tend to lack a lot of people skills. They also tend to have huge egos (possibly because of huge amount of time it takes to learn what they NEED TO KNOW and to actually do it).
Many admins forget that the point isn't to have lots of wonderfully run locked-down computers that don't do anything (damned users! get in the way of my policies...). A computer is a tool - a beautifully polished tool that doesn't do anything is worthless.
I think a lot of USERS forget they aren't the computer specialist and their individual job goal may and often times takes a back seat to the company goals.
A computer is a tool - a beautifully polished tool that doesn't do anything is worthless.
Don't complain till you try writing documentation yourself. Do you have any idea how long it takes to document all parts of a software project, not just the User Manual? It is long and tedious task. A task that is looked over about as much as writing clean efficient code.
That said...I have to get back to writing my clean efficient code
Slashdot Mirror
RIGHT ON!!!
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it!!!
No, Joe SixPack should have a basic knowledge of computer before he can touch a mouse or keyboard that is hooked to the net.
do you expect people to know how to drive if they have seen a person drive a car at random times here a there for mere minutes at a time?...I hope not
To help alleviate the problem until the general public has a clue is to have the OS and programs install with minimal functionality as an industry requirement. How do get this accomplished, your guess is as good as mine...(well, maybe)
Nuttles
Christian and Proud of it
EXACTLY
Microsoft is out there to make money and to continue making money. Increased security has to lead to increased revenue or at the very least less of a loss of market share than if nothing was done about security.
Like in college (CS grad, and don't be knocking that I am a CS grad, I have 2 years of programming experiance), my profs said "in a program of any significant size, the program can only be proven to have bugs, it can never be proven that it doesn't". I believe that the Windows OS is a program of significan size. So microsoft in very general terms must graph money put into security against profits. Where this graph peeks is where microsoft SHOULD stop putting money into security. If people want to change microsoft, then make that peek further down where they put more money into security. The flip side of that is that many people will probably be unhappy because the OS price may go up. In the end Microsoft has to graph something else. Money put into the OS to make people happy against profit. Where this peeks is where microft should stop pumping money in. So what this means is, is that Microsofts aim will never be to make everyone as happy as they can be about there OS, it isn't profittable.
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it!!!
We (U.S.) often time "teach" or "lift" other nations when it benefits us.
Does the U.S. Spend billions upon billions in countries that have absolutely nothing to give back to the us? many central and south american countries fall into this country. An example on the other side is Iraq. The power that region has because of oil makes us keenly aware of that region and how we can help and in turn influence or look good with people of that region (often times looking good and influencing that region for our benifit do not coincide, sometimes the U.S. fails at both, but none the less we try). Compare Iraq to Samaria. A rare purely humanatarian effort by the U.S.. What happened when our servicemen begin to die. We pulled out. Conversely we stay in Iraq...why, well, I think the main reason is obvious. A major and often times pretty much the only reason a developed country helps out a less developed country is to GAIN something besides a warm tingly feeling of doing something good.
Developing countries don't rule with a iron fist for two major reasons. One, it hasn't worked in the past. Two, we are to interconnected, communications are too good.
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it!!!
Opera Rocks
Page loading is much faster
there are keyboards for virtually everything
it is standards compliant
it has cool features usually before other browsers have them (ie Mouse gestures, popup supressor)
it is ultra customizable
I can go on, but I think you get the picture
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it!!!
by my logic WE DO NOT need more people pumping gas.
My point was that the government should protect abuse by companies to the general public rather than protecting jobs. How does that logic equate to me saying that we need more people pumping gas?
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it
Your point to that Ted Strickland protected jobs doesn't really make sense. It is in the same category as in Oregon, where people pump your gas for you. I discussed this law with people I know (I recently moved here) and they all say they like the law because one they are too lazy to get out of the car and pump the gas themselves and two they like the idea that there are guranteed jobs out there for low skilled people. My answer to this is, is that it is not the governments job to create jobs just for the sake of creating jobs.
Saying that, I think it relates to the topic on hand because I think it is the governments job to handle abuse by companies. 50 million Americans signed up saying do not call me. I would conclude that a lot of people think that they are being abused by companies.
Now, in relation to this Ted Strickland. I think he made an unwise vote. I would think that there are a lot more than 500 people in his area that signed up for the do not call list. They are voters too.
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it
(from a progammers point of view)
(I lump Europeans with Americans because I believe that they are experiancing the same problem or will be soon)
ok, maybe the issue we should talk about is all the management for IT. Their jobs aren't getting shipped over seas (they don't want to move overseas or hire someone to do there jobs, that would be committing suicide). Until their jobs get shipped over or until foriegn companies take a bigger market share wee will not be in 'real big' trouble. The reason why management is one of the keys is because they are in charge of the projects. They want to see what is being built. They don't want to give a check out and wait, they want to be an integral part of the process. Because of this management will, at least for the time being, deal with the communicating between continents. This can be a real pain.
Another reason IT (programming jobs) are not totally in danger is because the 'proper' software process is virtually non existent in the real world. If you are fuzzy on what you want to do, then no matter how cheap the labor is, it is still going to cost companies a lot of money. Add this to the communication problems and I would think that around the same amount of money is spent. When companies realize this, they will probably hire local again.
Thirdly, and this is my weakest point, and virtually impossible to support, but because of the freedom Americans and Europeans enjoy they will always be a better better pool of IT (programmers specifically) workers.
Fourthly, dealing with smaller projects (company software...), I don't think foriegners can really compete. They don't have the access to users that locals have.
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it
Excuse me, people put their own little sayings or sigs after their name and I am sure you thought some of them were lame or stupid, but did you reply to theirs hostily, probably not(if you did you have too much time on your hands). Why should me being a christian bring on such hostility. Every one in my office knows I am a christian, I keep a bible on my desk, right next to my programming reference. Is it your anonymity that gives you the freedom to bad mouth what I believe? It matters not what you think about me professing my faith we I wish to. Christian and proud of it!!!
Nuttles
Christian
Finally, someone that at least indirectly acknowledges that Microsoft oriented programming is at least worth reading about. I am like many people who read slashdot in that I think Microsoft doesn't play nice in the industry, but they are, like it or not, the de facto standard out there.
Nuttles
Christian and proud of it
Why it always the little guy against the big guy?
A company will act in its best interest and as an employee or former one there should be a certain amount of loyalty. Just because upper management can be thieving dishonest people does not give other the right to act that way.
Bottom line. This guy found the security flaw while working for the company. While he was an employee, he shouldn't have exposed the flaw like that.
The only way for a computer system to be completely secured is not to have one.
Having integrity seems to have lost something in this day and age...
There is a difference between a novice user and an expert user (duuuuhhh), but I feel that I need to explain this. People who care about getting things done efficiently, rarely use the close buttons (at least the people I know). They use keyboard short cuts. Alt-F4. People always talk about making things easier, but much of the time it is talk about as ridiculous as debating how to make peoples handwriting more legible. For instance, debating on how to change how you write an R so that it doesn't look so much like a B. Stop debating about such things and just write/read. If you care to take the time you can be a great reader or writer and cases such as those become moot. Same with UI issues. Bottom line, people need to invest in learning what UIs have to offer.
I think 5 is most important. I code at home twice as fast as work because I don't feel the pressure to produce every second.
Agreed. I don't things are going to change anytime soon though. From my experiance (2 years developing), my supervisors push for features much more than stability or security.
Hey wait a minute, lets not knock on computer science majors.
Nut
Christian and proud of it!!!
I agree with you that the system admin isn't the most important position with most companies, but it is a vital link of the chain. I think this link is much of the time underappreciated both because many "users" in general are ignorant of what it means to be a sys admin and also because the sys admins I have known and from what I read about personailities of sys admins...well they tend to lack a lot of people skills. They also tend to have huge egos (possibly because of huge amount of time it takes to learn what they NEED TO KNOW and to actually do it).
Many admins forget that the point isn't to have lots of wonderfully run locked-down computers that don't do anything (damned users! get in the way of my policies...). A computer is a tool - a beautifully polished tool that doesn't do anything is worthless.
I think a lot of USERS forget they aren't the computer specialist and their individual job goal may and often times takes a back seat to the company goals.
A computer is a tool - a beautifully polished tool that doesn't do anything is worthless.
A broken tool doesn't get anything done either
Don't complain till you try writing documentation yourself. Do you have any idea how long it takes to document all parts of a software project, not just the User Manual? It is long and tedious task. A task that is looked over about as much as writing clean efficient code.
That said...I have to get back to writing my clean efficient code
Nut