If I looked at history that way, I might believe it. But I've heard of a thing called farm subsidies. I think they still exists. I think they are in place to pay farmers not to grow things, because there is already too much of them. I also just moved from an area where it left no question in my mind, most people are too dumb to provide worthwhile services, repetitive manual labor is a challenge for them. I spent a good 2 months explaining to a professional construction crew, how to put together a metal building with blueprints. I'm a programmer, go figure. You think these people are going to migrate into services? No, they become the government dependent welfare class.
I think the higher standards of living you describe was more a shift in wealth, at one time people were very poor or very rich, then the middle class expanded - wealth distributed - where is it going next, in either model?
You hit a vital point. Robotic automation is about to explode 10 times what it has already. The only way the US is going to get more competitive is the automate production work with fewer employees. The competition will only respond with the same. There will be a chilling reverse effect on the economy, improve US manufacturing, AND drive up unemployment rates.
The corporations will not care about the worker, and I'm not convinced it is their job to do so. Profits will be up, investors happy, management has less headaches. This is not the a unique trend either. If you haven't noticed, education, now pushing a thing called STEM is really about just the opposite to what the public thinks it is. There is not a need for more engineers, there is a need to identify and weed out the top engineer without having to hire 3-4 to find the one. He/She will provide more profit to the company than all the others combined.
Yes, profit has become a refined science, and the group who will suffer the most is Joe Average. What do we do with him, other than let him become Joe Poor?
Anyhow, I'm not against robotic manufacturing, I just think there is a terrible consequence to it, that is not being discussed or planned for.
"was why does C/C++ required definitions in header files shared between source files"
Never thought anyone would be ignorant enough to even consider that, when the compiler has to compile both and can simply keep a symbol table between the files. I though you were on to something less obvious and less basic.
Sorry, I don't engage in prima donna intellectual conversations. If you don't like my emotions, skip over them. But why do you ask to leave them out, then use one as your first argument (ie naming)? I will admit, I was using a beta product that had trouble with namespaces, so my bitch about naming is withdrawn, although I still think STL names are very hard to read compared to C#s or even Javas.
And I think you are agreeing with me on the next subject - IF C++ could deal with changes to an interface, on its own, without the need for me to tell it in a second file, perhaps by a compiler maintained header / equivalent of a library (.dll or otherwise) with imbedded cargo information, then C++ would be acting like a modern language. What do you know, we both agree with C++11 committees as well, that is where they are headed.
Its not clear to me what your point about DLLs has to do with anything, and why you think I am mixing them up with.... well I have no idea.
Anyhow, I am glad we agree, on everything substantive.
Are you serious? You don't have a clue what you're talking about do you? Seriously dude, I think using a web page is out of your league. No one is going to reply with a technical explanation to someone who obviously doesn't have any idea. Do yourself a favor, spend some time with the free visual studio, or even Java if you don't mind having your computer pWned (for the last few days anyhow) - and try it. It has nothing to do with runtime loading and analysis, that is known as reflection. it has to do with the COMPILER being smart enough to look at a library, as opposed to only being able to load in source and compile it. Its not that hard really, and again, it IS a top priority of the C++11 committee. They acknowledge its desirability and are working towards resolution on implementation. Oh damn, I took the time for a newb (rolling eyes).
He presses F2 and gets an outline of the entire API including developer provided docs. A java programmer does similar things. Apparently you aren't old enough to wipe your ass yet.
C#/Java, import runtime library (dll or jar) of rich libraries, write new classes (using nice readable names), usually one file per class (but in c# I can combine them into 1 file), compile run.
c++, include header files, write new classes (using hideously complicated naming and syntax), write duplicate definition in own header files, add libraries (already included) to linking process, compile, run.
One way is smooth and logical, the other is barbaric, and a top priority of the standards committee to get rid of, just hasn't happened yet. If its so ok, why have they said it's got to go?
Whatever happened to them? Didn't they at one time have a Java implementation?
I'm not ready to give up on Java. It is not because I think it's the best, I still think C# beats it as a language, but at times when a client requires non-microsoft, it is my only choice for a modern language. Yeah, I know C++11, I've looked at it quite a bit, and it is better than it was, but as long as it needs header files, I don't put it into a modern language category.
So, anyhow, Eclipse seems to have really gone in the dumpster as far as quality lately, and IBM is silent as a Java leader too. Is IBM bailing on Java? I see the have a new big push to virtualization to a level that makes sense, by using a mainframe. Maybe they have (bailed). So what post java, other than c#, is available?
Yeah, the dude is a douche, no question. But even as someone totally opposite of probably everything he believes, I knew what he was saying was women forced to have sex vs those who lie about it afterwords. And what he thought might happen, as pointed out be earlier poster, isn't entirely unbelievable. If there is a market to help you get pregnant, there could be a 'mechanism' that prevents pregnancy. Possible, studied, and rejected. So he is an uninformed idiot. Beyond that there isn't much news to it, BUT in the world we live, were a company with less than 10% market share can be the most valuable company in history, there has to be something to make the news sell.
This my friends is a result of showing how easily you (the proverbial you, as a population) can be fooled into thinking something is important, when it is not. Everything you have seen on TV on this issue, is about selling commercials, nothing more. And from what I can tell, is working exactly as planned.
Sure, it IS their riskiest bet, but it is a bet on market direction, not whether Windows will live or die as a PC OS. They have already generated revenue from Windows 7, and likely will continue to at least get Windows 7 revenue from the remaining XP era hang ons.
So realistically MS is not so worried about the existing 90% market share. It is what comes next. Apple has gotten pretty good as some voodoo making the most profit with a tiny portion of the market, for whatever reason (probably something in the water supply). The next market will be Cell phones, Tablets, Set Top boxes. If MS doesn't do something now, that would be the stupidest risk they could take. It has been in the works for a while now. Many Windows Phone dev folks were unhappy that there did not seem to be an honest push for WP7. Truth is now known that is because it was (is) throw away code, and upper MS knew that.
From what I have seen of windows 8 so far (quite a bit actually) it can be a fine competitor, and will take a release or 2 to mature as expected. The risk is will that then be the right timing for it? I say they have a pretty good shot.
please... know anything about court? Apple and Microsoft are in the computer business. Microsoft WAS a monopoly that used its market position to... well hell, I lived through those times and I never saw anything they did any worse than anyone else, but they got convicted of it anyhow. Then along comes Apple. Locks up their software to only run on their hardware, locks up their software so that it can only be sold if Apple makes a profit on it. Creatively herds the ignorant into generating the most profit from less than a 10% market share in the PC market, while locking up the obviously emerging PC replacement market, the tablet. Can you name one thing that Microsoft does that hurts the market more than Apple?
Microsoft could be found guilty of bad Balmer, that's about it. Apple brought on this locked tight reality, get used to it. While Apple may not be a convicted monopoly, I'm pretty sure it is now recognized as currently the world's most evil company.
haha. Apple has made that frivolous. What jury (be it a judge or real jury) would find Microsoft has a monopoly these days? Apple keeps reminding us how they are the number one now.
Oh and btw, doesn't Apple also restrict what boots and how? to make sure you ONLY buy Apple hardware? Yep, MS keeps 90% of the market, can and WILL dictate to the OEMs how to build their machines, and there is nothing anyone can do about it, thanks to Apple's efforts.
And top it off, MS is getting more into the hardware market, and controlling the software sales channels, they want to be just like Apple. I can't wait to see how it comes out. My guess is both MS and Apple will end up being losers, and guess what, linux will still be a loser also. Something new will come along, dictated by ATT and the Olympic comittee, and the 99% will still be whining about how the 1% controls everything. Nothing will change.
Can we please have some robotics research on something that is not obvious to a 3 year old with a cat? Making this practical and useful would be a decent start. What I see here is of 0 value. You move something you get a reaction, react fast enough it does things - big fucking yawn. Ever hear of a gyro?
Again I ask, how much of my tax money got spent on that? It's fraud.
For the moment I would support a law that says all (US) public money should be in support of current darpa challenges only. Anything else, take it private.
No I'm not forgetting that. I remember that exact same argument when DOS based computers came out, AND when Windows PCs came out. Why will it be different this time? What is prohibiting business from migrating to tablets as applications advance? No one is forcing anyone to do anything, it will happen over time, naturally.
I know, I will disagree with 90% of you but here is why; Like it or not the PC market is shrinking, and becoming less significant. No matter how much most of you want something, no one cares. The Apple tablet IS the future of personal computers, with smart phones becoming a huge market as well. Anyone who does not recognize this is a fool. Microsoft HAS to change, there is no choice if they want to keep any resemblance to their profit history. So someone made a decision (yes I know how hard it is for American's to do that, re the current state of government) and decided to make an attempt for future significance. If it fails, it is no worse than the path they were already on.
Windows 8 IS a tablet OS, using many components that were designed and usability tested for many prior years, such as XAML. They alo hedged a bit on the open but as of yet unsuccessful HTML5/JS craze. Microsoft offers a developer experience second to none. And to top it off, they include a 7.1 version of Windows, the successor to a fairly successful Windows 7, alongside of their new tablet OS, for desktops. What is wrong with that? Has anyone written an iOS app for an iPad lately? Horrible developer experience with a horrible dated convoluted and proprietorial language, But they have been successful anyway because there was no competition. The Android market is a mess, the true nature of open source. Apple, who is able to capture 5 times the profits, with 1/10 the market share (that tells you something right there) is able to suck enough of you along to stay in business.
Well Apple got a couple of things right; build your own hardware, eliminating 90% of the compatibility bugs (and costs) with various other hardware vendors. Tightly control what is distributed and allowed to run. Microsoft will go this route now, with a far superior product. The only thing that can get in their way is a brainwashed consumer, and Apple is pretty good at that, so who knows?
What most of you have no clue about, is that your habbits with your less than 1% market share of an OS, are in the less than 5% share of computers users. There is no desire at all from the 95% to have a command line, 0, none, nadda. got it? The reasons you think it should be there, are totally unwelcomed by the 95%. Companies that are in business to make money care about these things. ANY application written today, for a command line, is worthless crap to 95% of the market. Any time spent developing a command line application is wasted unless you are specifically targeting IT admins or developers, and to be real, many of us don't want your command line crap either.. Your grandmother now uses a computer - go explain a Java command line to start a program to her. See that funny stare you got?
Step one to making linux more popular and accepted; get a clue.
I never understood 'rules' of war. If someone runs from (the symbolic) me into a church, I say nuke the church. If my bullets can mutilate instead of kill, and in the end bring victory, then I shoot mutilating bullets. If my biological weapon can be easily deployed into your water supply, why shouldn't they be?
The US started this war. And the rules of war, equivalent to laws, will only be followed by US law abiding citizens, not our enemy targets When we get another 9/11 level attack, don't be so naive this time, we started it (the same as last time).
I have a verizon sold android, and have been wanting to change carriers for a while. Can my current phone be switched, or do I need a new phone? I have not really kept up with this aspect of phone plans. I am grandfathered in on a verizon unlimited plan, of which I use about 10 minutes talk and 1 megabyte data a month on, and pay $100 as it is. So even though $90 would be cheaper and probably fit me, I would just as soon switch to a $50 plan from sprint or someone else, if the phone switching hassle is not too great.
What I do remember reading was that the probability that life could evolve to the point it has on earth is about the same as finding a fully assembled jet engine after a hurricane in a junk yard. yes it could happen, but it probably will not. Why is that so hard to believe?
Last I read (somewhere), statistics indicated life probably did NOT get created on earth, but more and likely arrived on an asteroid or something similar, possibly a space craft, but that was just one of the possibilities. So, I have come to take the side that nothing is impossible, only not likely. It is both not likely that life evolved just on earth, and it also not probable that a supreme being existing in our reality created it. The latter eliminating something whose image we are made from, and fathering a child. This leaves us with a conclusion, that yes, life came from the flying spaghetti monster, and there are virgins and pirates in heaven.
Slashdot Mirror
If I looked at history that way, I might believe it. But I've heard of a thing called farm subsidies. I think they still exists. I think they are in place to pay farmers not to grow things, because there is already too much of them. I also just moved from an area where it left no question in my mind, most people are too dumb to provide worthwhile services, repetitive manual labor is a challenge for them. I spent a good 2 months explaining to a professional construction crew, how to put together a metal building with blueprints. I'm a programmer, go figure. You think these people are going to migrate into services? No, they become the government dependent welfare class.
I think the higher standards of living you describe was more a shift in wealth, at one time people were very poor or very rich, then the middle class expanded - wealth distributed - where is it going next, in either model?
You hit a vital point. Robotic automation is about to explode 10 times what it has already. The only way the US is going to get more competitive is the automate production work with fewer employees. The competition will only respond with the same. There will be a chilling reverse effect on the economy, improve US manufacturing, AND drive up unemployment rates.
The corporations will not care about the worker, and I'm not convinced it is their job to do so. Profits will be up, investors happy, management has less headaches. This is not the a unique trend either. If you haven't noticed, education, now pushing a thing called STEM is really about just the opposite to what the public thinks it is. There is not a need for more engineers, there is a need to identify and weed out the top engineer without having to hire 3-4 to find the one. He/She will provide more profit to the company than all the others combined.
Yes, profit has become a refined science, and the group who will suffer the most is Joe Average. What do we do with him, other than let him become Joe Poor?
Anyhow, I'm not against robotic manufacturing, I just think there is a terrible consequence to it, that is not being discussed or planned for.
oh, your right
"was why does C/C++ required definitions in header files shared between source files"
Never thought anyone would be ignorant enough to even consider that, when the compiler has to compile both and can simply keep a symbol table between the files. I though you were on to something less obvious and less basic.
No need. you and everyone else who read it, knows exactly what it says.
Sorry, I don't engage in prima donna intellectual conversations. If you don't like my emotions, skip over them. But why do you ask to leave them out, then use one as your first argument (ie naming)? I will admit, I was using a beta product that had trouble with namespaces, so my bitch about naming is withdrawn, although I still think STL names are very hard to read compared to C#s or even Javas.
.... well I have no idea.
And I think you are agreeing with me on the next subject - IF C++ could deal with changes to an interface, on its own, without the need for me to tell it in a second file, perhaps by a compiler maintained header / equivalent of a library (.dll or otherwise) with imbedded cargo information, then C++ would be acting like a modern language. What do you know, we both agree with C++11 committees as well, that is where they are headed. Its not clear to me what your point about DLLs has to do with anything, and why you think I am mixing them up with
Anyhow, I am glad we agree, on everything substantive.
Are you serious? You don't have a clue what you're talking about do you? Seriously dude, I think using a web page is out of your league. No one is going to reply with a technical explanation to someone who obviously doesn't have any idea. Do yourself a favor, spend some time with the free visual studio, or even Java if you don't mind having your computer pWned (for the last few days anyhow) - and try it. It has nothing to do with runtime loading and analysis, that is known as reflection. it has to do with the COMPILER being smart enough to look at a library, as opposed to only being able to load in source and compile it. Its not that hard really, and again, it IS a top priority of the C++11 committee. They acknowledge its desirability and are working towards resolution on implementation. Oh damn, I took the time for a newb (rolling eyes).
"'To be able to install this JRE your computer must be an IBM system, as shown by a BIOS check"
WTF does that mean? surely not what it says?
He presses F2 and gets an outline of the entire API including developer provided docs. A java programmer does similar things. Apparently you aren't old enough to wipe your ass yet.
Sure, I can explain it.
C#/Java, import runtime library (dll or jar) of rich libraries, write new classes (using nice readable names), usually one file per class (but in c# I can combine them into 1 file), compile run.
c++, include header files, write new classes (using hideously complicated naming and syntax), write duplicate definition in own header files, add libraries (already included) to linking process, compile, run.
One way is smooth and logical, the other is barbaric, and a top priority of the standards committee to get rid of, just hasn't happened yet. If its so ok, why have they said it's got to go?
" At least try and understand what you're talking about."
I think you are confused who is clueless.
Whatever happened to them? Didn't they at one time have a Java implementation?
I'm not ready to give up on Java. It is not because I think it's the best, I still think C# beats it as a language, but at times when a client requires non-microsoft, it is my only choice for a modern language. Yeah, I know C++11, I've looked at it quite a bit, and it is better than it was, but as long as it needs header files, I don't put it into a modern language category.
So, anyhow, Eclipse seems to have really gone in the dumpster as far as quality lately, and IBM is silent as a Java leader too. Is IBM bailing on Java? I see the have a new big push to virtualization to a level that makes sense, by using a mainframe. Maybe they have (bailed). So what post java, other than c#, is available?
Yeah, the dude is a douche, no question. But even as someone totally opposite of probably everything he believes, I knew what he was saying was women forced to have sex vs those who lie about it afterwords. And what he thought might happen, as pointed out be earlier poster, isn't entirely unbelievable. If there is a market to help you get pregnant, there could be a 'mechanism' that prevents pregnancy. Possible, studied, and rejected. So he is an uninformed idiot. Beyond that there isn't much news to it, BUT in the world we live, were a company with less than 10% market share can be the most valuable company in history, there has to be something to make the news sell.
This my friends is a result of showing how easily you (the proverbial you, as a population) can be fooled into thinking something is important, when it is not. Everything you have seen on TV on this issue, is about selling commercials, nothing more. And from what I can tell, is working exactly as planned.
Sure, it IS their riskiest bet, but it is a bet on market direction, not whether Windows will live or die as a PC OS. They have already generated revenue from Windows 7, and likely will continue to at least get Windows 7 revenue from the remaining XP era hang ons.
So realistically MS is not so worried about the existing 90% market share. It is what comes next. Apple has gotten pretty good as some voodoo making the most profit with a tiny portion of the market, for whatever reason (probably something in the water supply). The next market will be Cell phones, Tablets, Set Top boxes. If MS doesn't do something now, that would be the stupidest risk they could take. It has been in the works for a while now. Many Windows Phone dev folks were unhappy that there did not seem to be an honest push for WP7. Truth is now known that is because it was (is) throw away code, and upper MS knew that.
From what I have seen of windows 8 so far (quite a bit actually) it can be a fine competitor, and will take a release or 2 to mature as expected. The risk is will that then be the right timing for it? I say they have a pretty good shot.
please ... know anything about court? Apple and Microsoft are in the computer business. Microsoft WAS a monopoly that used its market position to ... well hell, I lived through those times and I never saw anything they did any worse than anyone else, but they got convicted of it anyhow. Then along comes Apple. Locks up their software to only run on their hardware, locks up their software so that it can only be sold if Apple makes a profit on it. Creatively herds the ignorant into generating the most profit from less than a 10% market share in the PC market, while locking up the obviously emerging PC replacement market, the tablet. Can you name one thing that Microsoft does that hurts the market more than Apple?
Microsoft could be found guilty of bad Balmer, that's about it. Apple brought on this locked tight reality, get used to it. While Apple may not be a convicted monopoly, I'm pretty sure it is now recognized as currently the world's most evil company.
haha. Apple has made that frivolous. What jury (be it a judge or real jury) would find Microsoft has a monopoly these days? Apple keeps reminding us how they are the number one now.
Oh and btw, doesn't Apple also restrict what boots and how? to make sure you ONLY buy Apple hardware? Yep, MS keeps 90% of the market, can and WILL dictate to the OEMs how to build their machines, and there is nothing anyone can do about it, thanks to Apple's efforts.
And top it off, MS is getting more into the hardware market, and controlling the software sales channels, they want to be just like Apple. I can't wait to see how it comes out. My guess is both MS and Apple will end up being losers, and guess what, linux will still be a loser also. Something new will come along, dictated by ATT and the Olympic comittee, and the 99% will still be whining about how the 1% controls everything. Nothing will change.
More "keep the rich colleges rich" schemes.
Can we please have some robotics research on something that is not obvious to a 3 year old with a cat? Making this practical and useful would be a decent start. What I see here is of 0 value. You move something you get a reaction, react fast enough it does things - big fucking yawn. Ever hear of a gyro?
Again I ask, how much of my tax money got spent on that? It's fraud.
For the moment I would support a law that says all (US) public money should be in support of current darpa challenges only. Anything else, take it private.
No I'm not forgetting that. I remember that exact same argument when DOS based computers came out, AND when Windows PCs came out. Why will it be different this time? What is prohibiting business from migrating to tablets as applications advance? No one is forcing anyone to do anything, it will happen over time, naturally.
I know, I will disagree with 90% of you but here is why;
Like it or not the PC market is shrinking, and becoming less significant. No matter how much most of you want something, no one cares. The Apple tablet IS the future of personal computers, with smart phones becoming a huge market as well. Anyone who does not recognize this is a fool. Microsoft HAS to change, there is no choice if they want to keep any resemblance to their profit history. So someone made a decision (yes I know how hard it is for American's to do that, re the current state of government) and decided to make an attempt for future significance. If it fails, it is no worse than the path they were already on.
Windows 8 IS a tablet OS, using many components that were designed and usability tested for many prior years, such as XAML. They alo hedged a bit on the open but as of yet unsuccessful HTML5/JS craze. Microsoft offers a developer experience second to none. And to top it off, they include a 7.1 version of Windows, the successor to a fairly successful Windows 7, alongside of their new tablet OS, for desktops. What is wrong with that? Has anyone written an iOS app for an iPad lately? Horrible developer experience with a horrible dated convoluted and proprietorial language, But they have been successful anyway because there was no competition. The Android market is a mess, the true nature of open source. Apple, who is able to capture 5 times the profits, with 1/10 the market share (that tells you something right there) is able to suck enough of you along to stay in business.
Well Apple got a couple of things right; build your own hardware, eliminating 90% of the compatibility bugs (and costs) with various other hardware vendors. Tightly control what is distributed and allowed to run. Microsoft will go this route now, with a far superior product. The only thing that can get in their way is a brainwashed consumer, and Apple is pretty good at that, so who knows?
Maybe you should be asking Microsoft how well the Novell interoperability train is?
How conveniently we forget Novell was kicking Microsofts butt (in networking). And doing everything they could to keep Microsoft out.
What most of you have no clue about, is that your habbits with your less than 1% market share of an OS, are in the less than 5% share of computers users. There is no desire at all from the 95% to have a command line, 0, none, nadda. got it? The reasons you think it should be there, are totally unwelcomed by the 95%. Companies that are in business to make money care about these things. ANY application written today, for a command line, is worthless crap to 95% of the market. Any time spent developing a command line application is wasted unless you are specifically targeting IT admins or developers, and to be real, many of us don't want your command line crap either.. Your grandmother now uses a computer - go explain a Java command line to start a program to her. See that funny stare you got?
Step one to making linux more popular and accepted; get a clue.
I never understood 'rules' of war. If someone runs from (the symbolic) me into a church, I say nuke the church. If my bullets can mutilate instead of kill, and in the end bring victory, then I shoot mutilating bullets. If my biological weapon can be easily deployed into your water supply, why shouldn't they be?
The US started this war. And the rules of war, equivalent to laws, will only be followed by US law abiding citizens, not our enemy targets When we get another 9/11 level attack, don't be so naive this time, we started it (the same as last time).
I have a verizon sold android, and have been wanting to change carriers for a while. Can my current phone be switched, or do I need a new phone? I have not really kept up with this aspect of phone plans. I am grandfathered in on a verizon unlimited plan, of which I use about 10 minutes talk and 1 megabyte data a month on, and pay $100 as it is. So even though $90 would be cheaper and probably fit me, I would just as soon switch to a $50 plan from sprint or someone else, if the phone switching hassle is not too great.
well wtf. I guess im the only nerd that can google. This was not what I remember reading, just the first that popped up in google;
http://www.science20.com/news_releases/the_mathematical_probability_of_life_on_other_earth_like_planets
What I do remember reading was that the probability that life could evolve to the point it has on earth is about the same as finding a fully assembled jet engine after a hurricane in a junk yard. yes it could happen, but it probably will not. Why is that so hard to believe?
Last I read (somewhere), statistics indicated life probably did NOT get created on earth, but more and likely arrived on an asteroid or something similar, possibly a space craft, but that was just one of the possibilities. So, I have come to take the side that nothing is impossible, only not likely. It is both not likely that life evolved just on earth, and it also not probable that a supreme being existing in our reality created it. The latter eliminating something whose image we are made from, and fathering a child. This leaves us with a conclusion, that yes, life came from the flying spaghetti monster, and there are virgins and pirates in heaven.
for $40,000 I bet HE would.