Yeah...I was and still am, somewhat "shocked" that this story has dropped SO quickly off the news map....
I was guessing, that since a handgun was used, and it wasn't a 50yr old white guy with a problem, or a messed up kid, that it just didn't fit their current narrative that helps push the anti-gun movement currently in swing.
It's almost like the news is saying "Oh, well, wrong type of mass shooting".
That fact that it hit YouTube really shocks me, that it has dropped off the radar so soon, I figured the location alone would have made it a front page news item for at least a few days....?
Where's David Hogg now? Why aren't they running him out there now to speak out once again on gun violence?
It's not just a few whack-o's, over 30,000 Americans are killed by guns every year.
Look...you take that number and subtract the suicides (they don't really fit, we're talking about gun violence, one person on other people)....you do that and the number of gun deaths drops below car accident rates.
You look at that remaining number, if is mostly gang violence..thug on thug. So, it is criminal use, and if the existing laws were enforced on those, then the rates would drop even further.
But often those caught criminally possessing, or attempting to posses, are not prosecuted.
Look, start fully enforcing the laws currently on the books and lets see what happens, before we start placing even more burdens on those law abiding citizens which are the VAST majority of gun owners.
What you just said to do, as has been shown in recent home invasions, is to open yourself up to get yourself robbed and then killed, and possibly have to watch as the intruders sexually assault your females in the house, before they kill you.
If someone breaks into my house, I'll be grabbing my closest guns and trying my best to shoot them first before they have a chance to shoot at me.
I will not stop shooting till they are either down on the floor (hopefully dead), or out the door....trailing blood hopefully.
That gun I was talking about hoping to have for self defense, isn't there to just try to scare someone off, it is to be used and if shot, it is to kill, period.
If they know a home is armed beforehand....criminals are actually more likely to try to find a softer target that is NOT armed.
If you want to welcome armed invaders into your house with nothing more that you hope of their good nature and decent intentions, have fun with that.
You most definitely need to pass a test that shows you are capable of handling a vehicle in order to obtain a drivers licence and drive a vehicle on public roads.
And...if you want o carry a concealed weapon out in public, THEN, you do have to take classes, learn the laws, pass a test and show proficiency in firing the weapon, before you can apply for the CC license.
No developed country in the world does not register things like land and automobile ownership. In fact car ownership and the right to drive one is quite heavily regulated in most places,
I can buy a car, and if I do not drive in on public roads, I don't not have to register it or have a drivers license.
I do not shoot my guns in public spaces, only on private land, either a gun range, or I have friends with private property outside the city limits, or in areas where it is legal to hunt, again, usually not in places where people live.
So, there's your car analogy.
If I DO want to carry my weapons and use them in public areas, I have to take classes, learn the laws and show a proficiency in using my weapon before I can apply for a Carry Concealed permit to carry a gun on me out in public.
Oh yea as part of that CC license, you get fingerprinted, and a picture ID, just like your drivers license.
Look guns deaths have been dropping in the US over the past years. Link here
And if you want to use stats on gun violence...take out the damned suicide numbers. If people want to off themselves, they will.
If you remove suicides, you have gun deaths (last I looked) lower than car accidents, and you don't see people wanting to ban cars.
And, if you look closer at the statistics, most gun deaths are by handgun AND out of those, most are gang related, them killing themselves. It isn't the law abiding gun owner that is the problem, it is...criminals.
I don't think they called it the Bill of Privileges, or the "Bill of Needs"...it is the Bill of Rights in the US constitution.
Frankly, I don't give a fuck about the rest of the world. If I wanted to live under those type of rules, I'd move there.
Also, if I buy a car and don't drive it on public roads, but only on private property, etc...I don't have to register it.
With my guns, I do not shoot them in public places, only on private property like a gun range, or I have friends with lots of land where we can go shoot all we want.
So, as long as I legally own and use my weapons, no...the government has no need to know about them any more than it needs to know my ownership of knives, hammers or crossbows, etc...which also can be missed and kill people.
You realize that the NRA isn't some independent, maniacal entity that magically appeared from nowhere and just runs rampant on its own in the US right?
It is made up of US citizens, it is funded by US citizens to help represent them and their views. It lobbies on behalf of a large number of US citizens to help protect their gun rights.
I hope the government of the US never falls into tyranny, but just in case it does, do look at history and an armed guerrilla has often fought many a government to at least a standstill....and in the US, it would be a lot of people over a large area.
I hope it never happens, it likely will never happen, but with even a smidgen of possibility, I'd like have the armed citizenry would be a bit of a deterrent.
Also, if you have a criminal breaking in, a home invasion, they are likely armed. I'd like to have the option to also be armed,
These days, more and more you're seeing 2-4 criminals doing invasions as groups.
In the heat of fire, panic, I"d like to have the ability to fire at least 30 shots before having to reload. IN that situation, you will have a hard time hitting with single shots.
Hell, even trained, veteran cops, often are emptying their guns on criminals, look at the news, you see 4 to 1 cops to criminal, and they're all emptying their 13-17 round capacity magazines at one guy and often most of THOSE shots miss, so, just saying, I'd like to have my options.
I may not win, they may kill me, but I'd like to have my chance be better than if all I can do is yell at them and throw furniture their way.
If you don't want to own weapons, please, do NOT.
But no one should violate MY right to defend myself, and own weapons as long as I am a law abiding citizen, which the VAST VAST majority of gun owning Americans are.
We're not the rest of the world....with so many places out there that lost their rights, isn't it nice to be one place where it still exists?
And as you see in other parts of the world, once you give up your rights, they are GONE forever....
. . . or maybe force them to smoke weed and listen to "Yes" and "Pink Floyd" albums.
I agree, I know that era...and no, no shoot-em-up problems then.
Hell, most of the trucks in the HS parking lot had gun racks in them WITH loaded rifles, especially during gun season, and again....while Floyd, Zeppelin and the Stones blared out, no one got shot, no one worried about it.
It is definitely a people problem, thing is..do we take away the rights of the vast majority in order to cater to the lowest common denominator which are a minority few nut jobs?
A gun is a purpose-built deadly weapon that is hilariously impractical for anything other than killing things or simulating killing things. Accept it.
No, a gun is purposely built and designed to fire a projectile. A slingshot is designed to do the same thing, so is a BB gun, so is a potato gun.
Now, whether you commit a crime and use a gun to kill someone, that's what turns a tool into a deadly object in a criminal use.
It can be used to legally kill some things, like when hunting. But then again, you also can do this with bow and arrow, a crossbow, a slighshot....even a fishing pole.
So, unless it is used illegally, it is not purpose built to kill. (the exception being if you are using one in combat/war, and even then, they don't use the same weapons we civilians commonly use. The AR-15 is not a military weapon, it is not fully automatic and is not used by the military).
I can attest that none of my weapons have come to life and spontaneously gone out and shot something or someone. I myself, have only used them for target shooting.
Cars must be registered and insured and legally require training to use, even though they're designed NOT to kill to the greatest practical extent. Why aren't guns controlled at least as tightly as cars?
Well, car registraton, etc...seems to me to be primarily for taxation and tracking it so they can make you keep paying for it (property tax, etc)....
However, if you buy a car and do not drive it on public roads (keep to private property, etc), you do not have to register it, you do not have to have a drivers license.
IN analogy to that, I don't not shoot my gun in public areas where it is prohibited, only in sanction areas (gun range) or private land...therefore it is pretty much regulated as tightly as a car.
If, in fact I want to carry a gun concealed in most public areas, I DO have to take training, learn the laws and show proficiency in shooting it in order to complete the class and apply for a carry conceal license.
I think that pretty much makes the car analogy, no?
One last thing, I don't know of anywhere in the US (at least no state I"ve lived in) that requires any form of training in order to drive a car or get a license.
so you have issues with vehicle registration as well?
Well, honestly, I don't see the need for it really.
It is there mainly as a means of tracking tax revenue IMHO...
However, if you buy a car and don't drive it on public roads, you don't need to register it.
So, as long as I don't use or shoot my guns illegally in public where restricted (analagous to not driving on public roads)....the govt. has no reason to know what or how many I have.
They don't require me to register my knives or hammers in my household, yet those are tools too...and they can even be used to harm or even kill people.
The gun is nothing more than an inanimate tool. I have never once had a problem with any of them spontaneously coming to life and shooting someone or something by themselves.
I hope you're seeing a medical professional about your issues.
I don't have any issues, I just have a lot of guns.
They are are mostly of various calibers and types. I like to collect and shoot them, mostly as a hobby.
But as long as I have them, why not spread them around the house?
I live in a safe neighborhood, but, not long back and not far away enough for me....there were a couple of home invasions.
Well, I don't guess any set of invaders, (and you do see home invasions with groups of 2 or more) are going to be polite enough to kick the door in when you are near your gun safe and give you time to open it, and load a weapon.
But again, that's not the primary reasons I have them around, but I figure since I have a lot, why not?
It doesn't hurt anything, and God forbid something did happen, well, at least I have options.
Now...what of the denotes need of a medical professional?
So, you say that in the US, we start to cater to the lowest common denominator eh?
Ok..so, lets get rid of all semi-automatic weapons (after all that is ALL the AR-15 is, it is nothing more).
Even though millions of people own them and responsibly own them, just because a few idiots go off, we have to take away everyones ability to own them?
This is more a people problem than gun problem.
It wasn't that long ago (think 60's-70's) when you could easily buy a gun (pistol or rifle or shotgun) with no background check, at the local hardware store, or even mail order, no problem.
Hell, in High School in the late 70's early 80's, I remember tons of folks parking in the student parking lot with gun racks in their truck, with loaded rifles in them....no problem.
So, with easier access, we had no real problem with mass shootings, and I never heard of one in schools then.
And if you want to go extreme...machine guns.
You know you CAN today own one legally, right?
All you have to do is fill out some ATF forms, pay your $200 tax stamp and you can own and shoot your own machine gun.
The only thing today is, as a civilian, you can only buy ones made before 1986. IN 1986, they snuck in a law (see the Hughes amendment) that said civilians couldn't own full auto weapons (which an AR-15 is not) made before 1986.
Prior to the Hughes amendment in 1986, you could freely buy a brand new machine gun easily. Just pay a tax stamp and fill out a form.
But tell me....can you list a bunch of machine gun crimes during that time period of the 50's and 60's?
Ok, I'll give you the roaring 20's with Al Capone, but there were also there circumstances going on then too.
So, it wasn't that long ago, that we have MUCH easier access to fire arms, even fully automatic ones, yet, we didn't have the problems with mass shootings we have now, in schools, etc.
So, over all, things have gotten better, and yet...we're wanting to have law abiding Americans, the VAST majority of gun owners in the US, millions of them...give up their rights, to cater to the lowest denominator of a few whack-o's...right?
And we're wanting to do this and make things harder on the vast majority legal law abiding citizens, even though so many of the laws already on the books are NOT being enforced...?
Hmm....I just don't buy that argument. We do not need to start treating the law abiding more and criminals and deprive them of their rights and property, and the privilege of protecting themselves and their homes.
I won't even get into reasons pertaining to the founding fathers wanting us armed, against tyranny of government that could happen.
Consider that whoever did this is almost certainly mentally ill. One of the common demands of those calling for stricter controls is to not allow people with mental health issues to have guns.
Sounds like it was some pissed off chick, that mainly came to shoot her boyfriend/husband.
All chicks go crazy at times (anecdotal experience)....they just don't all go to the point of popping a cap in your ass when you dump them, or sleep with someone else.
Right -- You can't trust a fellow employee to remember their own user name, or small basics like not stuffing paper towels down a toilet, so it totally makes sense that you see no problem with having every untrained, undocumented idiot brandish a firearm in the cubicle next to you.
Err...well, if you want to get a CC (Carry Concealed) license in most states, you have to first take training classes, learn the laws, and show a proficiency with you firearm before you can get said carry license.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm talking about the 24/7 news channels on TV, not blogs on the internet.
I was guessing, that since a handgun was used, and it wasn't a 50yr old white guy with a problem, or a messed up kid, that it just didn't fit their current narrative that helps push the anti-gun movement currently in swing.
It's almost like the news is saying "Oh, well, wrong type of mass shooting".
That fact that it hit YouTube really shocks me, that it has dropped off the radar so soon, I figured the location alone would have made it a front page news item for at least a few days....?
Where's David Hogg now? Why aren't they running him out there now to speak out once again on gun violence?
Look...you take that number and subtract the suicides (they don't really fit, we're talking about gun violence, one person on other people)....you do that and the number of gun deaths drops below car accident rates.
You look at that remaining number, if is mostly gang violence..thug on thug. So, it is criminal use, and if the existing laws were enforced on those, then the rates would drop even further.
But often those caught criminally possessing, or attempting to posses, are not prosecuted.
Look, start fully enforcing the laws currently on the books and lets see what happens, before we start placing even more burdens on those law abiding citizens which are the VAST majority of gun owners.
A registration is useful ONLY for potential confiscation.
Look, a gun is a tool, like other tools.
Should I be required to register all tools I have? Hammers? Crossbows? Knives? (lots of folks killed with knives)....etc.
The list gets ridiculous.
What good does registration do? I can think of many harms, but not many things good it would do.
If someone breaks into my house, I'll be grabbing my closest guns and trying my best to shoot them first before they have a chance to shoot at me.
I will not stop shooting till they are either down on the floor (hopefully dead), or out the door....trailing blood hopefully.
That gun I was talking about hoping to have for self defense, isn't there to just try to scare someone off, it is to be used and if shot, it is to kill, period.
If they know a home is armed beforehand....criminals are actually more likely to try to find a softer target that is NOT armed.
If you want to welcome armed invaders into your house with nothing more that you hope of their good nature and decent intentions, have fun with that.
And...if you want o carry a concealed weapon out in public, THEN, you do have to take classes, learn the laws, pass a test and show proficiency in firing the weapon, before you can apply for the CC license.
Same thing...so, what are you arguing about?
Well, a gun range is PRIVATE property....and yes you can transport an unloaded firearm to private property to legally use it.
Much like you can transport an unregistered and unlicensed car to be driven on public property.
I can buy a car, and if I do not drive in on public roads, I don't not have to register it or have a drivers license.
I do not shoot my guns in public spaces, only on private land, either a gun range, or I have friends with private property outside the city limits, or in areas where it is legal to hunt, again, usually not in places where people live.
So, there's your car analogy.
If I DO want to carry my weapons and use them in public areas, I have to take classes, learn the laws and show a proficiency in using my weapon before I can apply for a Carry Concealed permit to carry a gun on me out in public.
Oh yea as part of that CC license, you get fingerprinted, and a picture ID, just like your drivers license.
And if you want to use stats on gun violence...take out the damned suicide numbers. If people want to off themselves, they will.
If you remove suicides, you have gun deaths (last I looked) lower than car accidents, and you don't see people wanting to ban cars.
And, if you look closer at the statistics, most gun deaths are by handgun AND out of those, most are gang related, them killing themselves. It isn't the law abiding gun owner that is the problem, it is...criminals.
I don't think they called it the Bill of Privileges, or the "Bill of Needs"...it is the Bill of Rights in the US constitution.
Frankly, I don't give a fuck about the rest of the world. If I wanted to live under those type of rules, I'd move there.
Also, if I buy a car and don't drive it on public roads, but only on private property, etc...I don't have to register it.
With my guns, I do not shoot them in public places, only on private property like a gun range, or I have friends with lots of land where we can go shoot all we want.
So, as long as I legally own and use my weapons, no...the government has no need to know about them any more than it needs to know my ownership of knives, hammers or crossbows, etc...which also can be missed and kill people.
You realize that the NRA isn't some independent, maniacal entity that magically appeared from nowhere and just runs rampant on its own in the US right?
It is made up of US citizens, it is funded by US citizens to help represent them and their views. It lobbies on behalf of a large number of US citizens to help protect their gun rights.
I hope the government of the US never falls into tyranny, but just in case it does, do look at history and an armed guerrilla has often fought many a government to at least a standstill....and in the US, it would be a lot of people over a large area.
I hope it never happens, it likely will never happen, but with even a smidgen of possibility, I'd like have the armed citizenry would be a bit of a deterrent.
Also, if you have a criminal breaking in, a home invasion, they are likely armed. I'd like to have the option to also be armed,
These days, more and more you're seeing 2-4 criminals doing invasions as groups.
In the heat of fire, panic, I"d like to have the ability to fire at least 30 shots before having to reload. IN that situation, you will have a hard time hitting with single shots.
Hell, even trained, veteran cops, often are emptying their guns on criminals, look at the news, you see 4 to 1 cops to criminal, and they're all emptying their 13-17 round capacity magazines at one guy and often most of THOSE shots miss, so, just saying, I'd like to have my options.
I may not win, they may kill me, but I'd like to have my chance be better than if all I can do is yell at them and throw furniture their way.
If you don't want to own weapons, please, do NOT.
But no one should violate MY right to defend myself, and own weapons as long as I am a law abiding citizen, which the VAST VAST majority of gun owning Americans are.
We're not the rest of the world....with so many places out there that lost their rights, isn't it nice to be one place where it still exists?
And as you see in other parts of the world, once you give up your rights, they are GONE forever....
I agree, I know that era...and no, no shoot-em-up problems then.
Hell, most of the trucks in the HS parking lot had gun racks in them WITH loaded rifles, especially during gun season, and again....while Floyd, Zeppelin and the Stones blared out, no one got shot, no one worried about it.
It is definitely a people problem, thing is..do we take away the rights of the vast majority in order to cater to the lowest common denominator which are a minority few nut jobs?
No, a gun is purposely built and designed to fire a projectile. A slingshot is designed to do the same thing, so is a BB gun, so is a potato gun.
Now, whether you commit a crime and use a gun to kill someone, that's what turns a tool into a deadly object in a criminal use.
It can be used to legally kill some things, like when hunting. But then again, you also can do this with bow and arrow, a crossbow, a slighshot....even a fishing pole.
So, unless it is used illegally, it is not purpose built to kill. (the exception being if you are using one in combat/war, and even then, they don't use the same weapons we civilians commonly use. The AR-15 is not a military weapon, it is not fully automatic and is not used by the military).
I can attest that none of my weapons have come to life and spontaneously gone out and shot something or someone. I myself, have only used them for target shooting.
Well, car registraton, etc...seems to me to be primarily for taxation and tracking it so they can make you keep paying for it (property tax, etc)....
However, if you buy a car and do not drive it on public roads (keep to private property, etc), you do not have to register it, you do not have to have a drivers license.
IN analogy to that, I don't not shoot my gun in public areas where it is prohibited, only in sanction areas (gun range) or private land...therefore it is pretty much regulated as tightly as a car.
If, in fact I want to carry a gun concealed in most public areas, I DO have to take training, learn the laws and show proficiency in shooting it in order to complete the class and apply for a carry conceal license.
I think that pretty much makes the car analogy, no?
One last thing, I don't know of anywhere in the US (at least no state I"ve lived in) that requires any form of training in order to drive a car or get a license.
Well, honestly, I don't see the need for it really.
It is there mainly as a means of tracking tax revenue IMHO...
However, if you buy a car and don't drive it on public roads, you don't need to register it.
So, as long as I don't use or shoot my guns illegally in public where restricted (analagous to not driving on public roads)....the govt. has no reason to know what or how many I have.
They don't require me to register my knives or hammers in my household, yet those are tools too...and they can even be used to harm or even kill people.
The gun is nothing more than an inanimate tool. I have never once had a problem with any of them spontaneously coming to life and shooting someone or something by themselves.
I don't have any issues, I just have a lot of guns.
They are are mostly of various calibers and types. I like to collect and shoot them, mostly as a hobby.
But as long as I have them, why not spread them around the house?
I live in a safe neighborhood, but, not long back and not far away enough for me....there were a couple of home invasions.
Well, I don't guess any set of invaders, (and you do see home invasions with groups of 2 or more) are going to be polite enough to kick the door in when you are near your gun safe and give you time to open it, and load a weapon.
But again, that's not the primary reasons I have them around, but I figure since I have a lot, why not?
It doesn't hurt anything, and God forbid something did happen, well, at least I have options.
Now...what of the denotes need of a medical professional?
What? Troll?
I thought is was more along the lines of "Good Natured Sarcasm".....
We did that once before..Please God, don't give them any ideas to bring that POS idea back again...ugh!!
The government has no reason to know what property I own, and a gun is nothing more than property, a tool.
There is no good reason for registration other than for potential confiscation.
I don't think they need to know if you want to smoke pot either, none of their fscking business.
Ok..so, lets get rid of all semi-automatic weapons (after all that is ALL the AR-15 is, it is nothing more).
Even though millions of people own them and responsibly own them, just because a few idiots go off, we have to take away everyones ability to own them?
This is more a people problem than gun problem.
It wasn't that long ago (think 60's-70's) when you could easily buy a gun (pistol or rifle or shotgun) with no background check, at the local hardware store, or even mail order, no problem.
Hell, in High School in the late 70's early 80's, I remember tons of folks parking in the student parking lot with gun racks in their truck, with loaded rifles in them....no problem.
So, with easier access, we had no real problem with mass shootings, and I never heard of one in schools then.
And if you want to go extreme...machine guns.
You know you CAN today own one legally, right?
All you have to do is fill out some ATF forms, pay your $200 tax stamp and you can own and shoot your own machine gun.
The only thing today is, as a civilian, you can only buy ones made before 1986. IN 1986, they snuck in a law (see the Hughes amendment) that said civilians couldn't own full auto weapons (which an AR-15 is not) made before 1986.
Prior to the Hughes amendment in 1986, you could freely buy a brand new machine gun easily. Just pay a tax stamp and fill out a form.
But tell me....can you list a bunch of machine gun crimes during that time period of the 50's and 60's?
Ok, I'll give you the roaring 20's with Al Capone, but there were also there circumstances going on then too.
So, it wasn't that long ago, that we have MUCH easier access to fire arms, even fully automatic ones, yet, we didn't have the problems with mass shootings we have now, in schools, etc.
And even with these.... gun violence overall in the US has been declining over the past years..
So, over all, things have gotten better, and yet...we're wanting to have law abiding Americans, the VAST majority of gun owners in the US, millions of them...give up their rights, to cater to the lowest denominator of a few whack-o's...right?
And we're wanting to do this and make things harder on the vast majority legal law abiding citizens, even though so many of the laws already on the books are NOT being enforced...?
Hmm....I just don't buy that argument. We do not need to start treating the law abiding more and criminals and deprive them of their rights and property, and the privilege of protecting themselves and their homes.
I won't even get into reasons pertaining to the founding fathers wanting us armed, against tyranny of government that could happen.
Sounds like it was some pissed off chick, that mainly came to shoot her boyfriend/husband.
All chicks go crazy at times (anecdotal experience)....they just don't all go to the point of popping a cap in your ass when you dump them, or sleep with someone else.
Then, why don't all those surrounding and free states have horrible gun deaths and mass shootings all the time?
Ban all AR-15's
Ban all semi-auto rifles (same as above).
Ban all guns....
Think of the children!!
Wait....it's a chick that did the shooting?
#MeToo
Ban all bad boyfriends, they deserve what they get....
Don't get me wrong, I love me some .45....
But I hope that's not the ONLY gun you have in the house loaded and ready...?
I have multiple guns in pretty much every room of my house, I'm never more than a few steps away from one.
And with each room, I'm only feet away from a handgun that will help me get to a shotgun....or in one room, the AR pistol with a can on it.
Err...well, if you want to get a CC (Carry Concealed) license in most states, you have to first take training classes, learn the laws, and show a proficiency with you firearm before you can get said carry license.
please don't be an AR
please don't be an AR....
OH wait, I don't think they allow regular ARs in CA anymore, right?
This is in Commiefornia...er...California, with some of the most restrictive gun laws around.
How could this have possibly happened?
I thought regulating the shit out of law abiding citizens would prevent such tragedies?