Sure I'd like to know if they are ok. That's a silly question. The real question is, do I believe that knowing they are ok A LITTLE SOONER is worth preventing the expansion of a communications medium that is critical and passes critical and emergency messages EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY.
And no, I don't think anyone in south america should have to lose their BPL connection simply because the US is having a disaster either. Maybe along the borders of mexico and Canada this would be an issue, but once you get far enough away that you need HF to communicate, it's too far away to actually arrive in time with emergency assistance 99% of the time.
Quite frankly, the spreading of 9/11 news was hardly something that warrants this hinderance of technology either. Those who could (and did help) certainly didn't need to be contacted overseas to do it. The rest could have waited for other forms of communications like emergency internet carrying power to be restored. It's not like knowing about 9/11 an hour sooner (AFTER it happened) changed the bottom line.
I will not dispute that it's science which is to old to be called technology anymore.
"global community"
my INTERNET community trumps all my LOCAL community trumps my national community my NATIONAL community trumps the global community The nonwired global community ranks dead last on this list.
If someone in south america has an emergency they should be calling someone a wee bit closer than the US. If they are merely calling to spread the word because people are nosy (like the news media) then my broadband and anyone elses should come first. The internet isn't about browsing porn, the internet carries critical communications every second of every hour of everyday. It lets loveones know we are safe and ok EVERYDAY. I carries news like wildfire globally in seconds.
HF communications may prove critical to an emergency once in a great while (generally the people who need contacting will certainly be contactable over other frequency). The internet never stops being critical for communications.
You use your high speed BPL connection to instantly initiate a realtime video conference with your friends and loved ones who also have these affordable readily available high speed connections now.
ok, if you have power, you don't need the hams for emergency communications. If you DON'T have power, then the BPL won't be interfering. What exactly is the problem here?
Expanding the greatest communications medium in existance that has benefitted all those with access (and this would make that virtually everyone) certainly takes precendence of non-emergency communications.
Most emergency communications which are actually essential (ie calling in the firemen as opposed to telling uncle bob in taiwan your ok or notifying the press of events) are of much shorter range as well which my ham friends have informed me don't require these spectrums anyway.
It's also not as if this would destroy ham radio, there is alot of frequency in hamland and those with licenses to use these frequencies are in the minority of hams (which are the vast minority compared to internet users).
This will of course be modded down, most slashdotters like to play with toy's technologies and hobbies (not that there is much which is NEW in radio, packet radio hardly competes with packet internet, and radio + internet integration is pretty old news) so there are alot of HAMs here.
I would be all for measures and suggestions to clean up BPL, but if comes down between one or the other BPL should certainly take priority over ham radio.
They arent' concerned about this anymore. By the time longhorn is released they hope to eliminated any hardware cooporation or capability to boot from competing operating systems.
At that point they can show what great and wonderful guys they are and how they develop all these great things to ease development for multiple platforms and allow for competition.
"suppose you're saying that the law of any local government justifies any actions it takes against its populace as long as it acts within its own frame of law. Genocide, torture, and rape for political dissent and rebellion is all okay as long as that government says it is, right?"
No I'm saying there isn't a single government in power today (INCLUDING THE US) that wouldn't, and in fact hasn't done all of the above for the same and/or lesser reasons. That makes the US claiming it's form of government is in any superior to the one iraq had on the basis of crimes our own government is equally guilty of hypocracy of the worst kind.
"If you can find me some supporting evidence that they liked it, I'd appreciate it, but I doubt that you can."
Finding supporting evidence isn't the difficult part at all. Finding supporting evidence you won't brush aside claiming it was because the people were afraid to say otherwise is. Of course the US could spout the EXACT SAME propoganda about any ruler and have it pass. It works better in a middle eastern country where there are bitterly warring religous factions who will of course oppose any ruler, works like a charm, pick any ruler and the opposing factions will be against him.
"Well, what DO you consider a bad guy to be if you don't consider Saddam and his sons to be bad guys for torturing their people? Don't tell me that you're one of these types who actually believes that there is no such thing as right and wrong. If you didn't you wouldn't be protesting the war on Iraq so loudly, so tell us what it would take to be an evil person."
The only WRONG thing that comes to mind at the moment is ignoring logical objective conclusions on an emotional basis or imagined sense or right and wrong. I belive there are correct and incorrect actions, the terms right and wrong fits as well, but I don't believe they are defined by moral or emotional means or inherient 6th senses. I believe they are defined by an analysis of goals, outcomes, and data. I don't believe in EVIL people. If I were to take my pick, one of my criteria would be that his behavior would have to rank him the bottom 10% of human actions if each individual on earth were put in his position, with his upbringing and background. Since EVERY ruling body on the face of this earth throughout the history of mankind has acted in similar fashion, I'd say it's a fair bet he doesn't qualify that criteria.
The moral and/or religious definitions of evil go against human nature. Evolution did not program our nature with the intent of making accepting it a bad thing. I honestly fail to comprehend why people believe a supreme being who defines what is right and wrong would create mankind with an inherient nature that was wrong by his definition.
The war on iraq is one thing, it's been and being waged for rather obvious reasons. Foothold in the middle east, tightening of our grip worldwide and sending a clear message that we are the global rulers, OIL, an excuse to establish another puppet government and thus conquer more territory without making it seem like we are vicious conquerors, and of course spending ridiculous resources equivelent to using a crane to swat a fly (such spending boosts the economony, with real dollars and percieved dollars that turn into real dollars in the stock market).
No, the war is all fine and dandy and arguably needed to save our economy. Pretending the war is about saving people we've been murdering and starving for 10yrs is a slight on the intelligence of anyone with an IQ of triple digits, basically anyone who has an excuse for not being culled from the human species.
yes, they have a term for source code which is open to a closed set of developers silenced by NDA's. Closed Source.
Open source means EVERYONE being able to manipulate and use the source code AND excercise their free speech rights and express knowledge contained therein. By your definition microsoft's shared source initiative would have qualified as open source!
Hell giving portions of the source code to extremely high profile customers for review and even modification is not unusual in the closed source world at all. Microsoft does it all the time.
I do believe you are mistaken, www.whatever.com@somewhereelse.com DOES take you to somewhereelse.com, but it DOES NOT display www.whatever.com in the address bar on Mozilla 1.5 on either linux or windows, same with firebird, same with konqueror.
nope 98 was neither faster nor more reliable, just included more features and functionality than 98 (although most of it only because relevant in the past 2yrs).
"Whole towns of Kurds were killed with chemical weapons [phrusa.org] for their aid of the UN forces in the Gulf War."
Yeah, we have a term and laws for that hear too, it's called Treason. There is only one punishment for it under US law, death.
"Saddam didn't just get 90%+ of the vote." I was talking about his popularity rating, not the voting booth. Saddam whether you believe him good, bad, or not neccesarily any worse than the US government, was EXTREMELY popular among his own people because he was reclaiming ancient land the lose of which had been a thorn to his people a very very long time. Killing and torturing traitors is a long time pastime in most nations these days.
"just turn on the damn tv, discovery times channel has crap on hussein on all the time."
yes there is alot of propoganda on the US media sources, they are after all heavily government controled.
"Oh and what about when he dropped mustard gas on that kurdish city (more iraqi's), killed 10s of thousands there too. ALL HIS OWN PEOPLE!"
My response to this can be summarized with 3 letters. ATF. The ATF made clear with flame throwing tanks what OUR country is willing to do TO OUR OWN PEOPLE if they so much as smell like going beyond regulated in 2000 various ways but "free" speech to actual action.
Every government is crooked. Ours actually rivals and possibly surpasses China on this front. Do you have any evidence he was more crooked or vicious than any other? Of course not. And I'll repeat again, I'll start listening to WMD BS when we stop having more than the rest of world combined.
In the gulf "war" we lost about 100 troops, and WE killed them all with one of our own missles. If our troops are dying at the hands of the iraqie people armed with pitchforks you can bet there are alot of pitchforks.
If you want someone to blame, I wouldn't suggest blaming the guy who was vastly loved by his people and went to take back a part of their homeland which they lost some time ago (kuwait).
Those who really deserve the blame are the ones who felt the oil in that portion of the homeland was too valuable and would give saddam too much leverage at the bargaining table. And so invaded kuwait which Saddam had legitimately conquered.
ok sorry buddy, but all BS US propoganda aside (yes that my own nations BS I'm talking about) I've never seen any legitimate evidence of Saddam really being a bad guy at all.
Let's see, he had a 90+% popularity rating among the people of Iraq. The US propoganda claims this is because the people were afraid to speak out. No legitimate evidence of this was ever presented of course. The fact the US government could pick any ruler loved by his people and say the exact same thing is ignored by everyone.
Of course the popularity rating was REALLY because he was trying to win back iraq's native territory (kuwait). This of course pissed us off, we have alot of money in kuwait.
Supposedly he used chemical weapons on us when WE ATTACKED HIM. Of course he didn't have much time, since we completely neutralized the entire iraq threat with one Seal team that took out their communications center and the rest was a cleanup crew (shhh, that's classified we can't have people knowing that desert storm was a joke.) We lost 100 troops, of course Saddam didn't kill them, nope, WE KILLED THEM with a cruise missle fired from a ship we had illegally parked in Saudi waters (the full truth of this is also classified).
Now of course we've been in iraq for months, last I checked we'd found ZERO WMD, as if having any would be that bad. Last I checked we have most of the remaining WMD left in the world. What hypocracy. After all this time we finally managed to spend millions of dollars, months of time, thousands of troops to figure out Saddam went to HIS HOME TOWN and hung out in someone's back yard.
Now as for Osama, maybe he's guilty or maybe not, one day we were declaring that we thought it was him but needed proof, the next day we heard press releases claiming the white house had proof but wouldn't disclose it. After that they annihiliated Osama's homeland, afterward they moved on to iraq. Wait a min, whatever happened to DISCLOSING the slightest evidence that Osama was EVER behind anything??? We just up and bought it hook line and sinker.
The towers was a very sad event, but terrorist activities like it occur constantly. You don't exactly see a response of turning the sands of the middle east to glass with little or no evidence. All as a way to get the people worked up while slipping legislation through that turns this nation into even more of a police state. Has nobody noticed that these countries are about as much of a sure thing conquest as we could come up with? What's next, treating conquest of Ethiopia as a serious military endevour?
you seem to have missed the point. Do you honestly think the SCO execs actually expect to make revenue or win the case? Do you honestly believe they EVER thought anyone would pay up?
The execs are trying to get as much under the table money from Microsoft and bloat their stock so they can unload as much as possible before the ship sinks. The ship was going down and had no real chance of recovery when Darl stepped up to the plate. Upon realizing that he decided to come out of it with as much personal gain as possible and if he accelerates the ship's sinking, so what? It was going down anyway.
This isn't and has never been about anyone collecting $699 licensing or thinking they were going to win a billion dollar lawsuit against IBM.
Anything negative about linux, the developers in the open source community (whether linux is what those developers are coding on or for or not) is bad PR for linux.
If the ignorant reporter mentions a negative concept and linux in the same article (even not associating them) it's bad PR for linux. Remember, most people are of extremely low intelligence and walk away from a magazine or web article with an idea of what they read that has absolutely nothing to do with what the article actually said.
I think SCO will take any bad linux PR they can get.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure I'd like to know if they are ok. That's a silly question. The real question is, do I believe that knowing they are ok A LITTLE SOONER is worth preventing the expansion of a communications medium that is critical and passes critical and emergency messages EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY.
And no, I don't think anyone in south america should have to lose their BPL connection simply because the US is having a disaster either. Maybe along the borders of mexico and Canada this would be an issue, but once you get far enough away that you need HF to communicate, it's too far away to actually arrive in time with emergency assistance 99% of the time.
Quite frankly, the spreading of 9/11 news was hardly something that warrants this hinderance of technology either. Those who could (and did help) certainly didn't need to be contacted overseas to do it. The rest could have waited for other forms of communications like emergency internet carrying power to be restored. It's not like knowing about 9/11 an hour sooner (AFTER it happened) changed the bottom line.
"has already been in use for years"
I will not dispute that it's science which is to old to be called technology anymore.
"global community"
my INTERNET community trumps all
my LOCAL community trumps my national community
my NATIONAL community trumps the global community
The nonwired global community ranks dead last on this list.
If someone in south america has an emergency they should be calling someone a wee bit closer than the US. If they are merely calling to spread the word because people are nosy (like the news media) then my broadband and anyone elses should come first. The internet isn't about browsing porn, the internet carries critical communications every second of every hour of everyday. It lets loveones know we are safe and ok EVERYDAY. I carries news like wildfire globally in seconds.
HF communications may prove critical to an emergency once in a great while (generally the people who need contacting will certainly be contactable over other frequency). The internet never stops being critical for communications.
If you cover the touchscreen with a 6inch thick lead shield I hear it greatly increases reliability and durability.
Explain to me again why ANYONE in the US should be inconvienced so that ANY call in South America can get through no matter what type of emergency?
Sat connections are SHIT. Sorry buddy, but have you ever tried to keep a starband link working?
"- Coordinating evacuations (fire, etc). You coordinate the evacuation of thousands with the phone system or the internet... let me know how it goes."
Not exactly something that goes on over HF and a small portion of HF is all that is relevant to this dicussion.
- Car accident in the middle of nowhere.
ditto
- Search and rescue efforts. Clicking and talking on a multi-access channel works a lot better than cell phones.
ditto
"Suppose the phones go down."
You use your high speed BPL connection to instantly initiate a realtime video conference with your friends and loved ones who also have these affordable readily available high speed connections now.
ok, if you have power, you don't need the hams for emergency communications. If you DON'T have power, then the BPL won't be interfering. What exactly is the problem here?
Expanding the greatest communications medium in existance that has benefitted all those with access (and this would make that virtually everyone) certainly takes precendence of non-emergency communications.
Most emergency communications which are actually essential (ie calling in the firemen as opposed to telling uncle bob in taiwan your ok or notifying the press of events) are of much shorter range as well which my ham friends have informed me don't require these spectrums anyway.
It's also not as if this would destroy ham radio, there is alot of frequency in hamland and those with licenses to use these frequencies are in the minority of hams (which are the vast minority compared to internet users).
This will of course be modded down, most slashdotters like to play with toy's technologies and hobbies (not that there is much which is NEW in radio, packet radio hardly competes with packet internet, and radio + internet integration is pretty old news) so there are alot of HAMs here.
I would be all for measures and suggestions to clean up BPL, but if comes down between one or the other BPL should certainly take priority over ham radio.
They arent' concerned about this anymore. By the time longhorn is released they hope to eliminated any hardware cooporation or capability to boot from competing operating systems.
At that point they can show what great and wonderful guys they are and how they develop all these great things to ease development for multiple platforms and allow for competition.
"suppose you're saying that the law of any local government justifies any actions it takes against its populace as long as it acts within its own frame of law. Genocide, torture, and rape for political dissent and rebellion is all okay as long as that government says it is, right?"
No I'm saying there isn't a single government in power today (INCLUDING THE US) that wouldn't, and in fact hasn't done all of the above for the same and/or lesser reasons. That makes the US claiming it's form of government is in any superior to the one iraq had on the basis of crimes our own government is equally guilty of hypocracy of the worst kind.
"If you can find me some supporting evidence that they liked it, I'd appreciate it, but I doubt that you can."
Finding supporting evidence isn't the difficult part at all. Finding supporting evidence you won't brush aside claiming it was because the people were afraid to say otherwise is. Of course the US could spout the EXACT SAME propoganda about any ruler and have it pass. It works better in a middle eastern country where there are bitterly warring religous factions who will of course oppose any ruler, works like a charm, pick any ruler and the opposing factions will be against him.
"Well, what DO you consider a bad guy to be if you don't consider Saddam and his sons to be bad guys for torturing their people? Don't tell me that you're one of these types who actually believes that there is no such thing as right and wrong. If you didn't you wouldn't be protesting the war on Iraq so loudly, so tell us what it would take to be an evil person."
The only WRONG thing that comes to mind at the moment is ignoring logical objective conclusions on an emotional basis or imagined sense or right and wrong. I belive there are correct and incorrect actions, the terms right and wrong fits as well, but I don't believe they are defined by moral or emotional means or inherient 6th senses. I believe they are defined by an analysis of goals, outcomes, and data. I don't believe in EVIL people. If I were to take my pick, one of my criteria would be that his behavior would have to rank him the bottom 10% of human actions if each individual on earth were put in his position, with his upbringing and background. Since EVERY ruling body on the face of this earth throughout the history of mankind has acted in similar fashion, I'd say it's a fair bet he doesn't qualify that criteria.
The moral and/or religious definitions of evil go against human nature. Evolution did not program our nature with the intent of making accepting it a bad thing. I honestly fail to comprehend why people believe a supreme being who defines what is right and wrong would create mankind with an inherient nature that was wrong by his definition.
The war on iraq is one thing, it's been and being waged for rather obvious reasons. Foothold in the middle east, tightening of our grip worldwide and sending a clear message that we are the global rulers, OIL, an excuse to establish another puppet government and thus conquer more territory without making it seem like we are vicious conquerors, and of course spending ridiculous resources equivelent to using a crane to swat a fly (such spending boosts the economony, with real dollars and percieved dollars that turn into real dollars in the stock market).
No, the war is all fine and dandy and arguably needed to save our economy. Pretending the war is about saving people we've been murdering and starving for 10yrs is a slight on the intelligence of anyone with an IQ of triple digits, basically anyone who has an excuse for not being culled from the human species.
yes, they have a term for source code which is open to a closed set of developers silenced by NDA's. Closed Source.
Open source means EVERYONE being able to manipulate and use the source code AND excercise their free speech rights and express knowledge contained therein. By your definition microsoft's shared source initiative would have qualified as open source!
Hell giving portions of the source code to extremely high profile customers for review and even modification is not unusual in the closed source world at all. Microsoft does it all the time.
I do believe you are mistaken, www.whatever.com@somewhereelse.com DOES take you to somewhereelse.com, but it DOES NOT display www.whatever.com in the address bar on Mozilla 1.5 on either linux or windows, same with firebird, same with konqueror.
Nope this is an IE hole only buddy.
nope 98 was neither faster nor more reliable, just included more features and functionality than 98 (although most of it only because relevant in the past 2yrs).
"Whole towns of Kurds were killed with chemical weapons [phrusa.org] for their aid of the UN forces in the Gulf War."
Yeah, we have a term and laws for that hear too, it's called Treason. There is only one punishment for it under US law, death.
"Saddam didn't just get 90%+ of the vote."
I was talking about his popularity rating, not the voting booth. Saddam whether you believe him good, bad, or not neccesarily any worse than the US government, was EXTREMELY popular among his own people because he was reclaiming ancient land the lose of which had been a thorn to his people a very very long time. Killing and torturing traitors is a long time pastime in most nations these days.
"just turn on the damn tv, discovery times channel has crap on hussein on all the time."
yes there is alot of propoganda on the US media sources, they are after all heavily government controled.
"Oh and what about when he dropped mustard gas on that kurdish city (more iraqi's), killed 10s of thousands there too. ALL HIS OWN PEOPLE!"
My response to this can be summarized with 3 letters. ATF. The ATF made clear with flame throwing tanks what OUR country is willing to do TO OUR OWN PEOPLE if they so much as smell like going beyond regulated in 2000 various ways but "free" speech to actual action.
Every government is crooked. Ours actually rivals and possibly surpasses China on this front. Do you have any evidence he was more crooked or vicious than any other? Of course not. And I'll repeat again, I'll start listening to WMD BS when we stop having more than the rest of world combined.
In the gulf "war" we lost about 100 troops, and WE killed them all with one of our own missles. If our troops are dying at the hands of the iraqie people armed with pitchforks you can bet there are alot of pitchforks.
If you want someone to blame, I wouldn't suggest blaming the guy who was vastly loved by his people and went to take back a part of their homeland which they lost some time ago (kuwait).
Those who really deserve the blame are the ones who felt the oil in that portion of the homeland was too valuable and would give saddam too much leverage at the bargaining table. And so invaded kuwait which Saddam had legitimately conquered.
ok sorry buddy, but all BS US propoganda aside (yes that my own nations BS I'm talking about) I've never seen any legitimate evidence of Saddam really being a bad guy at all.
Let's see, he had a 90+% popularity rating among the people of Iraq. The US propoganda claims this is because the people were afraid to speak out. No legitimate evidence of this was ever presented of course. The fact the US government could pick any ruler loved by his people and say the exact same thing is ignored by everyone.
Of course the popularity rating was REALLY because he was trying to win back iraq's native territory (kuwait). This of course pissed us off, we have alot of money in kuwait.
Supposedly he used chemical weapons on us when WE ATTACKED HIM. Of course he didn't have much time, since we completely neutralized the entire iraq threat with one Seal team that took out their communications center and the rest was a cleanup crew (shhh, that's classified we can't have people knowing that desert storm was a joke.) We lost 100 troops, of course Saddam didn't kill them, nope, WE KILLED THEM with a cruise missle fired from a ship we had illegally parked in Saudi waters (the full truth of this is also classified).
Now of course we've been in iraq for months, last I checked we'd found ZERO WMD, as if having any would be that bad. Last I checked we have most of the remaining WMD left in the world. What hypocracy. After all this time we finally managed to spend millions of dollars, months of time, thousands of troops to figure out Saddam went to HIS HOME TOWN and hung out in someone's back yard.
Now as for Osama, maybe he's guilty or maybe not, one day we were declaring that we thought it was him but needed proof, the next day we heard press releases claiming the white house had proof but wouldn't disclose it. After that they annihiliated Osama's homeland, afterward they moved on to iraq. Wait a min, whatever happened to DISCLOSING the slightest evidence that Osama was EVER behind anything??? We just up and bought it hook line and sinker.
The towers was a very sad event, but terrorist activities like it occur constantly. You don't exactly see a response of turning the sands of the middle east to glass with little or no evidence. All as a way to get the people worked up while slipping legislation through that turns this nation into even more of a police state. Has nobody noticed that these countries are about as much of a sure thing conquest as we could come up with? What's next, treating conquest of Ethiopia as a serious military endevour?
WARNING!!! Do not feed the trolls.
you seem to have missed the point. Do you honestly think the SCO execs actually expect to make revenue or win the case? Do you honestly believe they EVER thought anyone would pay up?
The execs are trying to get as much under the table money from Microsoft and bloat their stock so they can unload as much as possible before the ship sinks. The ship was going down and had no real chance of recovery when Darl stepped up to the plate. Upon realizing that he decided to come out of it with as much personal gain as possible and if he accelerates the ship's sinking, so what? It was going down anyway.
This isn't and has never been about anyone collecting $699 licensing or thinking they were going to win a billion dollar lawsuit against IBM.
Drill holes, get brackets, mount on rack. Simple
Anything negative about linux, the developers in the open source community (whether linux is what those developers are coding on or for or not) is bad PR for linux.
If the ignorant reporter mentions a negative concept and linux in the same article (even not associating them) it's bad PR for linux. Remember, most people are of extremely low intelligence and walk away from a magazine or web article with an idea of what they read that has absolutely nothing to do with what the article actually said.
I think SCO will take any bad linux PR they can get.
"The notion of a public domain, strong in our "capitalist" U.S. tradition, is much more communistic than the GPL"
I was pointing out that public domain is not the product of any system of economics, capitalist or otherwise.
Any programmer of virtually any experience will know what it is when he sees it. As for non programmers, who cares?
It's like vomit, but from a network connection.