Dunno specifically about the DVD-RW writing, I imagine it's more intensive for the drive with the overhead involved in a RW but I'm no expert on the internal physical workings of the drive. Even the man who write the firmware upgrade doesn't know if the operations would actually cause any kind of heat issue.
"Of course it does. I and every other user has the right to gripe and complain and bitch about anything I want."
Wrong, you are capable of griping and complaining and bitching about anything you want. Being capable and having a right to are far different matters, your not my customer, I don't have to please you, pleasing you isn't my goal. Simply because you CAN bitch, doesn't mean you have the right to be heard. Your not an open source programmer's customer.
"Because clearly, the objective here is not to please users or offer anything to society. It's all about being closed-off and pretending that nobody can have a voice until some miniscule piece of code has been accepted somewhere."
Your right, the objective is not neccesarily to please users! Your use of open source software is primarily (there are plenty of exceptions) a side effect of the community's goal of pleasing *gasp* US. I don't code for you, I code for me.
"Funny, I thought the whole point was to offer people a choice. I guess people can't offer suggestions on how to better that choice."
Wrong again, the whole point is to offer MYSELF a choice and those who help me do so (the rest of the community I spoke of in previous post).
With that said, the open source community DOES listen to feedback from users (most of the time, every project is run by different people who make their own decisions). You a hell of alot more likely to get the ear of someone with the power to make things happen in the open source world than in the commercial world.
Where you go astray is thinking someone has some kind of obligation to heed your wishes. You use your spare time to do what you want, don't think I or anyone else owes you theirs.
Not so, I make plenty of profit selling open source software. I personally refuse to write anything but gpl'd software. I do subcontract work from time to time for small and medium sized businesses. They couldn't care less what license I give them. I don't preach anything about values, they know I produce better software and cheaper, the rights they recieve under the gpl are ok with them.
There is plenty of profit to be made coding open source software, no it's the software houses only that would need to change their business model enough that they would crash.
I would agree however that RMS personally is interested only in his "legend".
By your definition a BSD license is closer to free and public domain is more free yet. While technically true, the gpl is thus far the best way to open up software as much as possible and KEEP it that way after it's changed hands.
If your not a programmer and haven't written any open source code (or at least financed someone writting open source code... brought him pizza, beer, chicks, etc) then you whining about how you feel and what you want to a group of people your leeching off of.
If your a programmer, get off your arse and make the changes yourself... you don't have to do everything yourself, because you'll have inevitably in some other work benefited another coder or two who will respect your thoughts and listen. The "community" are developers and those who contribute to them in some fashion, so only the developers having a say IS the ENTIRE community.
Remember if you don't contribute in some way (which can be as simple as buying a boxed redhat and therefore funding their developers to work on open source) then your merely a parasite, sucking the blood of those who DO contribute to the community in some way.
Using linux on your computer means you've gotten something for nothing. Your the one with the debt now, not the programmers. You haven't given the community anything by benefitting from their work. The community is not a commercial entity that has some obligation to listen to you, it's your money that gives you a voice with a commercial entity, without it you'd have none their either.
So in short, no you don't have to be a programmer, that's merely the most direct way to help. Spend time on help channels, help at your lug, start a lug, simply purchase boxed linux, contract a developer for something you need and gpl it. Donate to an organization which does these things.
Until you contribute in some way, no you don't deserve a voice at all. Running the OS alone doesn't mean you suddenly have earned the right to grip and complain about those who have worked hard to make it possible for you to do so.
It's not about money it's about power. He gets a power trip when he renames someone elses operating system and actually manages to get people to listen.
aye so I read in the forum, of course that is just a random guess based on some problems that were known to exist with the drive, not hard fact as to why they did it.
My Other responder is just as likely to be right, apple downgraded the drive firmware in their cheaper product lines to give more motive to purchase the 17" instead.
Personally I suspect it's a case of both, the system runs a little hotter with the drive rev'd up, and they know the average idiot doesn't properly operate a laptop so that heat is controlled. They also know this would be a little less a factor in their 17". So as a combination of both, they figure they'll tweak down the lower models (which have a slight problem that would result in support calls but not affect the average user) and gain a secondary incentive to purchase the more beefy model.
I've worked for fortune 500 computer manufacturers though, and I assure you, whether it's the case here or not. They most definately DO clock down hardware on cheaper models and sometimes the only difference between the more expensive and less expensive model is the firmware (one example being the sony clie, which is a notorious line for this).
Not neccesarily, apple didn't make the drive;) Those who wrote the firmware didn't build the drive.
There is a chance this could simply be a case of the original designers not thinking out of the box. Look at the C64 display and the amazing display enchancing hacks for it.
Yes but *gasp* even the french learn english in school. We've bullied it throughout the rest of the world because we don't want to learn your damn languages, get over it. Move on.
And ouvert = open is just a coincidence, this was named after a babylonian godess.
Most people judge apps by their name, they look at a big long list of apps and don't have time to read all the descriptions. Someone should be able to get an idea of what an app does from it's name.
I don't believe I've ever seen X run slow enough that you can see the windows and menu's being redrawn... what are you using, gnome on a p1???
I run fast 3d games like quake 3, neverwinter nights, and everquest w/lucin graphics engine on my linux system and see NONE Of this performance hit you speak of.
Because 10% is pretty significant. I think rather than dropping the feature it should be improved on. It's not something that taxes the usability of the desktop at all! Network transparency is NOT something which slows down your desktop apps, it's the toolkits that do that.
I've reached a conclusion, we have to agree to disagree. However your last point really seals the deal, becaue your right. Your always dealing with upper management;)
Damn, don't you know how to throw in blank line now and then? Format as text if need be otherwise toss in a couple breaks.
Advanced Training is a result of multi-million dollar reasearch into training, it's a technology of it's own. Advanced craft is one form of technology, advanced training is another form a technology. So no that doesn't render anything false.
What you see in news coverage and TV isn't a 10th of what goes on just in boot camp, if you haven't been in the military then don't think you know about military training. If you think what you've seen in movies qualifies as advanced training you are mistaken, if you think what you've seen isn't matched by every nation in the world your nuts. It's in a movie, for every military in the world to replicate and glean from... that is WHY advanced military training IS classified.
"As an institution our military has far more experience both in terms of years it has been in existence as well as the number of wars it has been part of"
Our military has been around longer than China's military? What are you smoking boy? China has been around for a few thousand years and they've pretty much always had a military. There aren't many nations around that have NOT had a military longer than we've had a country...As for being in wars, that's fine and dandy (China has us trumped there too but ours are more recent so I'll give) but since 99% of our troops weren't in any of them (unless you count iraq lol) it doesn't amount to much.
China's one child policy is because there are too many damn kids and the population is growing through the roof even with it. If lack of youth were a problem I think it's safe to say they'd recend the one child thing.
Iraq legitimately conquered kuwait AFAIK they weren't even an ally. As for casualties, we sure as shit killed our own troops in Saudi Arabia. Yes, it's classified, but there is no doubt, we had a ship sitting in the gulf firing cruise missles. Wouldn't take ALL of iraq? ALL OF IRAQ, that's like saying they couldn't take all of UTAH!
Hell we didn't take ALL of iraq either, we just stormed the capital and tada, we had all of iraq.
We indiscreminately bombed the city which contains the largest portion of iraqs population, we did so indescriminately. Do you have any idea how many civilians that had to of REALLY killed? I don't mean the propaganda numbers claimed by the victor, I mean the reality numbers? Are you really that snowed?
Tea, not Team;) The bastards stopped marching to have a bit of tea!
Actually germany lost over 100 times as many troops in it's march on russia than it lost in europe (including when the allies stormed back through to germany) total. They were sitting outside the capital, if the US hadn't gotten involved they would have successfully taken Russia and Europe. I agree, they could have taken on the US instead of Russia.
Europe still couldn't take Russia today (assuming both sides had finances to maintain their existing military and keep up the war... which russia doesn't) and I'll tell you why, WMD aside the real strength of both the US and Russia is their Naval Power, air power is secondary since the navy has airpower of their own, ground is secondary, the naval ground forces are more elite than regular grounds troups and by no means small. Russia built up a massive navy during the cold war and Europe's nations all have one thing in common... they right by the water. They could sweep in the english channel and from there could launch missles anywhere in europe and send airpower anywhere in europe, At the same time they can send ground forces from the other side.
It's all talk though, since they don't have the funds to keep the war going at all, their massive naval might is worthless if they can't afford to fuel the ships.
Without a doubt true... but do you need 4yrs to learn good study habits? Or to learn the art of cramming? Or would a 2hr session followed by a brief course in insert random subject so long as they can present lots of material) teach you just as well or near enough so that the 4yrs is still unjustified?
Let's face it, college is just one last foray before going into the real world.
All of Europe combined doesn't come close to the GDP of the United States alone. In terms of military strength... well the last time we saw it was in WWII and it wasn't much, the germans overran most of europe with little opposition and the Europeans weren't really that big a player in taking them out either. Brit's played some part (even if your willing to ignore the fact that their military actually stopped marching for TEA TIME!!!) but for the most part it was the US and Russia.
Russia could probably clobber anyone but the US and China if military strength were the only issue, but tanks, jets, and ships, all use gas. And Russia can't cough up the cash. So they could only launch an effective fight if the US fiananced it... which would be a good idea, cheap military reserves for hire.. cheaper than our own because they have the equiptment and they suffer the losses in equiptment.
Advanced Training is a result of advanced technology, and since our training and their training are both classified it's sort of a mute point debating how effective techniques that neither of us know are.
Both invasions of iraq were basically the same. What kind of amazing organization does it take to send in one seal team to knock out their communications? (persian gulf) Or to simply bomb and keep bombing until their all dead and then walk in basically unchallenged? (this time).
Iraq isn't large enough to qualify as a war, it never was, it was a joke when we violated UN Orders and invaded iraq the first time (he did have permission to invade kuwait by why on earth should he have to ask permission?) and it was a joke when we did it this time. Us fighting any nation in the middle east is simply bullying those who are two week to defend. It doesn't matter if it's us, russia, or china, they would fall in a week or less if the fight were taken seriously.
The biggest hole in your statement though is China, the truth is that for the most part we are guessing. China hasn't truely cracked out their guns yet and we don't know what they have... What we do know is that the US government has sure as hell pussyfooted around them thus far and when we are making threats freely everywhere else to get what we want.
I'm not talking about what will get you fired or not, I'm not talking about upper management. I'm talking if you did do it, and didn't get canned, are you as likely to get your problem fixed and find the expertise you need from the mailing list as the support line. I'd go farther and say your MORE likely to get fixed with the mailing list.
The public is our problem. China certainly has the public under control, in fact 1/3 of them are in the military! China could lose 10,000 each month and continue the war for years before it made a dent in their numbers. It's the US that couldn't keep it up, not China.
and you've been countered time and time again. Yes "wps office2003" is the title of the version of thise officesuite that runs on windows. So technically wps office2003 only runs on windows. However THE PORTS TO LINUX ARE NOT NAMED "wps office2003", there is wps (which only runs on linux) and a third version wps v6 which runs on both.
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Dunno specifically about the DVD-RW writing, I imagine it's more intensive for the drive with the overhead involved in a RW but I'm no expert on the internal physical workings of the drive. Even the man who write the firmware upgrade doesn't know if the operations would actually cause any kind of heat issue.
"The great thing about information is that you can use as much as you like without wearing it out or using it up."
True enough, I was emphasizing those users have no right to be heard and that nobody has an obligation to listen to them if they speak.
True but in many cases you have to BUY it to get the code to begin with.
"Of course it does. I and every other user has the right to gripe and complain and bitch about anything I want."
Wrong, you are capable of griping and complaining and bitching about anything you want. Being capable and having a right to are far different matters, your not my customer, I don't have to please you, pleasing you isn't my goal. Simply because you CAN bitch, doesn't mean you have the right to be heard. Your not an open source programmer's customer.
"Because clearly, the objective here is not to please users or offer anything to society. It's all about being closed-off and pretending that nobody can have a voice until some miniscule piece of code has been accepted somewhere."
Your right, the objective is not neccesarily to please users! Your use of open source software is primarily (there are plenty of exceptions) a side effect of the community's goal of pleasing *gasp* US. I don't code for you, I code for me.
"Funny, I thought the whole point was to offer people a choice. I guess people can't offer suggestions on how to better that choice."
Wrong again, the whole point is to offer MYSELF a choice and those who help me do so (the rest of the community I spoke of in previous post).
With that said, the open source community DOES listen to feedback from users (most of the time, every project is run by different people who make their own decisions). You a hell of alot more likely to get the ear of someone with the power to make things happen in the open source world than in the commercial world.
Where you go astray is thinking someone has some kind of obligation to heed your wishes. You use your spare time to do what you want, don't think I or anyone else owes you theirs.
Not so, I make plenty of profit selling open source software. I personally refuse to write anything but gpl'd software. I do subcontract work from time to time for small and medium sized businesses. They couldn't care less what license I give them. I don't preach anything about values, they know I produce better software and cheaper, the rights they recieve under the gpl are ok with them.
There is plenty of profit to be made coding open source software, no it's the software houses only that would need to change their business model enough that they would crash.
I would agree however that RMS personally is interested only in his "legend".
By your definition a BSD license is closer to free and public domain is more free yet. While technically true, the gpl is thus far the best way to open up software as much as possible and KEEP it that way after it's changed hands.
If your not a programmer and haven't written any open source code (or at least financed someone writting open source code... brought him pizza, beer, chicks, etc) then you whining about how you feel and what you want to a group of people your leeching off of.
If your a programmer, get off your arse and make the changes yourself... you don't have to do everything yourself, because you'll have inevitably in some other work benefited another coder or two who will respect your thoughts and listen. The "community" are developers and those who contribute to them in some fashion, so only the developers having a say IS the ENTIRE community.
Remember if you don't contribute in some way (which can be as simple as buying a boxed redhat and therefore funding their developers to work on open source) then your merely a parasite, sucking the blood of those who DO contribute to the community in some way.
Using linux on your computer means you've gotten something for nothing. Your the one with the debt now, not the programmers. You haven't given the community anything by benefitting from their work. The community is not a commercial entity that has some obligation to listen to you, it's your money that gives you a voice with a commercial entity, without it you'd have none their either.
So in short, no you don't have to be a programmer, that's merely the most direct way to help. Spend time on help channels, help at your lug, start a lug, simply purchase boxed linux, contract a developer for something you need and gpl it. Donate to an organization which does these things.
Until you contribute in some way, no you don't deserve a voice at all. Running the OS alone doesn't mean you suddenly have earned the right to grip and complain about those who have worked hard to make it possible for you to do so.
How much more open a system can you can get? Why they literally bare it all and keep no secrets!
But umm not all software that is free as in speech is free as in beer now?
It's not about money it's about power. He gets a power trip when he renames someone elses operating system and actually manages to get people to listen.
ok AC, I'll back it up. Without the GNU tools you still have an OS, without the kernel you don't have anything.
It's not GNU that runs embedded devices, it's linux. RMS is waay overboard. Free software is a great thing, I hope RMS doesn't destroy it.
aye so I read in the forum, of course that is just a random guess based on some problems that were known to exist with the drive, not hard fact as to why they did it.
My Other responder is just as likely to be right, apple downgraded the drive firmware in their cheaper product lines to give more motive to purchase the 17" instead.
Personally I suspect it's a case of both, the system runs a little hotter with the drive rev'd up, and they know the average idiot doesn't properly operate a laptop so that heat is controlled. They also know this would be a little less a factor in their 17". So as a combination of both, they figure they'll tweak down the lower models (which have a slight problem that would result in support calls but not affect the average user) and gain a secondary incentive to purchase the more beefy model.
I've worked for fortune 500 computer manufacturers though, and I assure you, whether it's the case here or not. They most definately DO clock down hardware on cheaper models and sometimes the only difference between the more expensive and less expensive model is the firmware (one example being the sony clie, which is a notorious line for this).
Not neccesarily, apple didn't make the drive ;) Those who wrote the firmware didn't build the drive.
There is a chance this could simply be a case of the original designers not thinking out of the box. Look at the C64 display and the amazing display enchancing hacks for it.
Yes but *gasp* even the french learn english in school. We've bullied it throughout the rest of the world because we don't want to learn your damn languages, get over it. Move on.
And ouvert = open is just a coincidence, this was named after a babylonian godess.
Most people judge apps by their name, they look at a big long list of apps and don't have time to read all the descriptions. Someone should be able to get an idea of what an app does from it's name.
I don't believe I've ever seen X run slow enough that you can see the windows and menu's being redrawn... what are you using, gnome on a p1???
I run fast 3d games like quake 3, neverwinter nights, and everquest w/lucin graphics engine on my linux system and see NONE Of this performance hit you speak of.
Because 10% is pretty significant. I think rather than dropping the feature it should be improved on. It's not something that taxes the usability of the desktop at all! Network transparency is NOT something which slows down your desktop apps, it's the toolkits that do that.
I've reached a conclusion, we have to agree to disagree. However your last point really seals the deal, becaue your right. Your always dealing with upper management ;)
Damn, don't you know how to throw in blank line now and then? Format as text if need be otherwise toss in a couple breaks.
Advanced Training is a result of multi-million dollar reasearch into training, it's a technology of it's own. Advanced craft is one form of technology, advanced training is another form a technology. So no that doesn't render anything false.
What you see in news coverage and TV isn't a 10th of what goes on just in boot camp, if you haven't been in the military then don't think you know about military training. If you think what you've seen in movies qualifies as advanced training you are mistaken, if you think what you've seen isn't matched by every nation in the world your nuts. It's in a movie, for every military in the world to replicate and glean from... that is WHY advanced military training IS classified.
"As an institution our military has far more experience both in terms of years it has been in existence as well as the number of wars it has been part of"
Our military has been around longer than China's military? What are you smoking boy? China has been around for a few thousand years and they've pretty much always had a military. There aren't many nations around that have NOT had a military longer than we've had a country...As for being in wars, that's fine and dandy (China has us trumped there too but ours are more recent so I'll give) but since 99% of our troops weren't in any of them (unless you count iraq lol) it doesn't amount to much.
China's one child policy is because there are too many damn kids and the population is growing through the roof even with it. If lack of youth were a problem I think it's safe to say they'd recend the one child thing.
Iraq legitimately conquered kuwait AFAIK they weren't even an ally. As for casualties, we sure as shit killed our own troops in Saudi Arabia. Yes, it's classified, but there is no doubt, we had a ship sitting in the gulf firing cruise missles. Wouldn't take ALL of iraq? ALL OF IRAQ, that's like saying they couldn't take all of UTAH!
Hell we didn't take ALL of iraq either, we just stormed the capital and tada, we had all of iraq.
We indiscreminately bombed the city which contains the largest portion of iraqs population, we did so indescriminately. Do you have any idea how many civilians that had to of REALLY killed? I don't mean the propaganda numbers claimed by the victor, I mean the reality numbers? Are you really that snowed?
Tea, not Team ;) The bastards stopped marching to have a bit of tea!
Actually germany lost over 100 times as many troops in it's march on russia than it lost in europe (including when the allies stormed back through to germany) total. They were sitting outside the capital, if the US hadn't gotten involved they would have successfully taken Russia and Europe. I agree, they could have taken on the US instead of Russia.
Europe still couldn't take Russia today (assuming both sides had finances to maintain their existing military and keep up the war... which russia doesn't) and I'll tell you why, WMD aside the real strength of both the US and Russia is their Naval Power, air power is secondary since the navy has airpower of their own, ground is secondary, the naval ground forces are more elite than regular grounds troups and by no means small. Russia built up a massive navy during the cold war and Europe's nations all have one thing in common... they right by the water. They could sweep in the english channel and from there could launch missles anywhere in europe and send airpower anywhere in europe, At the same time they can send ground forces from the other side.
It's all talk though, since they don't have the funds to keep the war going at all, their massive naval might is worthless if they can't afford to fuel the ships.
Without a doubt true... but do you need 4yrs to learn good study habits? Or to learn the art of cramming? Or would a 2hr session followed by a brief course in insert random subject so long as they can present lots of material) teach you just as well or near enough so that the 4yrs is still unjustified?
Let's face it, college is just one last foray before going into the real world.
All of Europe combined doesn't come close to the GDP of the United States alone. In terms of military strength... well the last time we saw it was in WWII and it wasn't much, the germans overran most of europe with little opposition and the Europeans weren't really that big a player in taking them out either. Brit's played some part (even if your willing to ignore the fact that their military actually stopped marching for TEA TIME!!!) but for the most part it was the US and Russia.
Russia could probably clobber anyone but the US and China if military strength were the only issue, but tanks, jets, and ships, all use gas. And Russia can't cough up the cash. So they could only launch an effective fight if the US fiananced it... which would be a good idea, cheap military reserves for hire.. cheaper than our own because they have the equiptment and they suffer the losses in equiptment.
Advanced Training is a result of advanced technology, and since our training and their training are both classified it's sort of a mute point debating how effective techniques that neither of us know are.
Both invasions of iraq were basically the same. What kind of amazing organization does it take to send in one seal team to knock out their communications? (persian gulf) Or to simply bomb and keep bombing until their all dead and then walk in basically unchallenged? (this time).
Iraq isn't large enough to qualify as a war, it never was, it was a joke when we violated UN Orders and invaded iraq the first time (he did have permission to invade kuwait by why on earth should he have to ask permission?) and it was a joke when we did it this time. Us fighting any nation in the middle east is simply bullying those who are two week to defend. It doesn't matter if it's us, russia, or china, they would fall in a week or less if the fight were taken seriously.
The biggest hole in your statement though is China, the truth is that for the most part we are guessing. China hasn't truely cracked out their guns yet and we don't know what they have... What we do know is that the US government has sure as hell pussyfooted around them thus far and when we are making threats freely everywhere else to get what we want.
I'm not talking about what will get you fired or not, I'm not talking about upper management. I'm talking if you did do it, and didn't get canned, are you as likely to get your problem fixed and find the expertise you need from the mailing list as the support line. I'd go farther and say your MORE likely to get fixed with the mailing list.
The public is our problem. China certainly has the public under control, in fact 1/3 of them are in the military! China could lose 10,000 each month and continue the war for years before it made a dent in their numbers. It's the US that couldn't keep it up, not China.
and you've been countered time and time again. Yes "wps office2003" is the title of the version of thise officesuite that runs on windows. So technically wps office2003 only runs on windows. However THE PORTS TO LINUX ARE NOT NAMED "wps office2003", there is wps (which only runs on linux) and a third version wps v6 which runs on both.