poor you - i think i have an old SIS 16mb agp 2x card you can have:) hehe
Well, the way i see it - i do trust ATI more then i do NVIDIA - as for the reasons mentioned because when ATI was called out - they admitted it and stopped where as NVIDIA did not and continued with it.
I know every company cheats somewhere to try and get ahead, for me it is more so how they deal with the accusations once caught - for me NVIDIA did not do this very well at all and because of the "possibility" of still cheating or "optimizations" occuring - (but not yet proven and i hope the acusations are wrong as i want a dual DVI output video card:)) - then until these recently made accusations (mainly circling around the game FarCry and changing of the.exe name results in lower performance - same trick nvidia tried before) i will be very hesitent to buy an NVIDIA card.
I wish trident / SIS or Matrox could compete with NVIDIA and ATI in the high end gaming market as more competitors would be nice! I am sure those companies wwould cheat eventually, maybe... or not. - any word on the SIS vid card that was supposed to compete with the high end ?
Oh well - my side is i would rather recommend ATI right now due to what seems to be once again a new card with better performance - better IQ and quality, and better performance once AA and FSAA are turned up and less power consumption and space saving (although who uses all PCI slots anyways) Also, ATI has gone a good long time with out doing any "optmizations" to their drivers to give more FPS and less IQ.
To each their own in the end.
LOL
i am ignorant, nice that you make the assumption i am an ATI fanboy - sorry, but there you are wrong.
I know the history - again yourself being ignoratn assuming i dont - I am aware of ATi cheating in the past as are many others - when was the last time they cheated - removed shadows / lighting and other scenese from games? - I am also aware of them (ATI) coming out and admitting it and then stopping the "cheating" - NVIDIA how ever did not - when nvidia was accused of cheating they began encrypting their drives and dening everything! that was said - If you are blind to that then the fanboy here is the NVIDIOT.
i own many flavours of cards - in fact more NVIDIA then ATI - my ti4200 and ti4600 ULTRA kick butt - the FX line how ever i can not say the same. I buy what card is worth my money. I would buy NVIDIA again if theire card is superious to ATI - and if they cna earn my trust back and assure me they are not "optmizing" their drives for more FPS and lower IQ.
MS does not give 2 shiets about the pirates - they are people who would not of bought the software anyways! this applies to the game pirates / movies etc - most of these "kids" can not afford these items and there for their impact on companies market share is minimal compared to the "magic" numbers these companies come up with that they would like you to beleive. Mayeb this is a sign that more companies should provide "demos!!!!!!"
MS makes it's money from volume licensing and large corpate companies!
Anyways MS has screwd up - even with pirated version on can avoid windows updates site directly and download the patches seperatly which do not seem to check for serial keys - one can even go as far as running their own windows update site from their network and provide updates.
I know this as i know some people with not legal copies and have gotten updates for them with out problems simply by downloading the updates individually from MS security bulletins!
Godo job ms!
Why are you complaning about a "gamers" card not having support for this, no support for linux, crap support for this.....
You are complaining about a card thats primary purpose is for gaming - not design - What O/S has brought in the most money - i think we know the answer, unfortuantly - so because of the time is spend developing driver for the platform that will bring them the most finacial benfit - welcome to the world of buisness - i am sure if more devlopers coded for Linux, then support for "gamers" cards would increase - so dont get mad @ ATI or NVIDIA or Matrox - get made at the game developers for not wanting to spend their time on a platform that is ever chaging what seems to be weekly.
last time i checked ATI's FireGl had full support for linux and so did NVIDIA Quadro cards.... So if your a desginer - buy a designers card and stop complaining how your Gamers card lacks OpenGL support for working on 3d renders and other such projects or other features that do not belong in a "gamers" card anyways.
Same reason why people buy high end sports cars that will never get to use thei 500HP or why people buy 48' plasma's tv
becuase they can - some people do have jobs that pay good money that they can afford to buy the luxuries in life.
I used to never have this option - i had my pIII 533 / AIW rage 128 / 512 ram and 40g HD computer for 3 years!!
Now that i got a good job i am spec'n out a dual opteron system (pending on the next ATI AIW card and PCIe) that will run me about $4k - WHy you ask do i do this - because i can, and i want something that strong! that will kick ass to anything i throw out it with out worries. I alwasy buy other things i want , like nice clothes and such! it doesnt just stop with computers - it is called
"living the life!"
usually dirvers issues are result of specific confirgurations in your system - ATI drivers are of top quality now and often exceed that of NVIDIA now.
Ever since the radeon line of drivers ATI has been excellent in their drivers support. It is true previous to that ATI did have poor support (myself though never having any issues and have had more BSOD"s with nvidia drivers)
Did you ever consider it may have been something else in your system conflicting with the drivers -to blow this off and never go to ATI because of this to me is ridiculous. It may have even been a bad card - it does happen.
Also - do you trust a company that is known to "optimize" their drivers to the point of removing entire scenese from games, shadow and lighting sections?
I would ait until some image quality testing comes out to see if NVIDIA has gone to good side as opposed to staying on the cheaters side.
Well, it is not as if you are forced to use longhorn in the first place:)
Many "consumers" or joe blows are still running 98SE and ME and many still so 95 - i would assuje based on the amount of people i talk to for support for our company...... XP likely has far less market in the typical home users home then 98 still does - so longhorn will likely be very little more so when it comes out and or a few years after wards.
How many people actually USE all of their PCI slots in todays computers?
very few because
Audio / LAN are usually built in now in most motherboards so that still leaves you with 3 or 4 PCI slots to use.
1. tv tuner card
2. second video card
3. SCSI card
4. extra sound card
????
Also, anyone who puts a PCI card in the slot below the vid card is asking for heating problems anyways, so why not make use of it by the video card.
The whole argument about an extra PCI slot being taken up is reather lame if you ask me.
I still wont buy the nvidia cards for a while, they need to prove to me that they are no longer using their so called "optimizations" still, everyone thought they were gone in the 43* drives, but then POOF they reappear in the 53* drivers. When i play a game i want to see ALL of the scenes, ALL of the lighting and ALL of the shodows.
I know, other companies cheat, but when ATI got caught - they stopped - NVIDIA conitued to do it and deny they were doing it.
I love my Ti4200 and ti4600 ULTRA and i love my radeon 9700PRO - my next purchase will likely be the 9800 AIW.
Until NVIDIA stops the lying and acting as if we are all sheep and will by their cards because it is faster - i wont.
I guess this compares to AMD and INTEL - NVIDIA being INTEL in trying to make people think that more speed is what is needed - where as ATI is like AMD - the speeds maybe slower - but they are more efficient at what they do and most of the time come out on top anyways.
P.S - Sad review - comparing the new card to something so old.
"Its is a sad reflection on the world that so many computer users out there are willing to mess around pushing their already exceptionally good hardware to acheive modest speed increases, whilst being scared of looking at the software underneath. "
Why is it a sad reflection that people want to get the most for their money? People do this with everything - their cars, other electronics, anything that they can push to limits - we do (we = humans)
Your telling me that going from 2.4Ghz to 3.2Ghz is a "modest: increase in performance?
I loved having a 3.2ghz processor when the fastest you could buy was a 2.8Ghz one.
I do strongly agree with you on the software side of things - But also learning the many languages and decompiliing an application, if one can takes much longer time - where as overclocking is easily learned
If coding wasnt so sloppy we would likely be in the world of still using PIII 1ghz machines and not these 3Ghz+ systems with 50 billion gigs of ram and a video card that can process a billion, trillion infinite number of pixels per second.
:)
For me overclocking allows me to take my system and make it last that much longer and not have to go buy new hardware. I myself only use Air cooling, nothing extreme. This is ahobby for many, just like other people's hobbies.
to each their own but i in no way find this to be "sad"
I ahd spec'd out a dual 248 opteron system - this was with a radeon 9800XT as well and 2g of ram and it was going to cost me around $3kUS - considering each CPU was about $1k each.
The reason Windows system get infected in a corptate environment is because the system administrators dont know how to properly maintain their network and computers under them, it is the system admins that should be fired. Ihave a network here or 23 computers and not one has ever gotten a virus or been down due to a windows bug -Why, because i know how to maintain my systems.
Now lets get into if MAC were on %85 of the worlds computers- there WOULD be as many viruses and such as what windows has now and you would see just as many problems and patches for OSX and previous / future versions.
A mac network / workplace can go down just as easily as a windows system if it is not properly maintained.
i would hope that they have something other then a gamers video card that your everyday joe has.
Even an Oxygen card or something that would specialize for their need.
ANY seirous gfx person knows to use FireGl and Quadro type cards - so i would think if they spent all this money on these G5's they would have some good video hardware pushing it....
1. Apple DOES NOT MAKE THE HARDWARE - IBM and other 3rd party companies do - Apple simply puts their name on it.
2. Mac OSX is not even 64bit capabale as far as i know?
3. Windows 64bit does exist for AMD64' (64bit cpu's) also you have Server 2003 which is 64bit - then you also have th elinux flavours.
4.The main reason Pixar for G5's is because Steve Jobs owns both companies so WHY would he want the competitors making money from him - pixar likely paid next to nothing for those systems.
5. Go spec out a dual Xeon system - yeah it will run you about $1500 US for an "okay" system - go spec out a dual G5 - your looking @ over $2k + - i have done my own price comparisons and each time i can get a PC that has everything a MAC has an often more for the same price - especially when you include 21' studio displays - of cours each one beats out the other in various "tests". neither is ever a mile ahead as so many reviews want you to beleive.
Anyways - what ever works - g5's got some good stuff and is definetly a saviour to MAC users world around from the G4 giant paper weight - but for all the MAC zealots stop worshipping your system and realize that PC are not the crap you think they are.
End of my rant for now.
P.S - can anyone spare $2k so i can get my own G5?:)
The problem is why go with AMD when your everday Joe only knows about
"Intel inside"
and that more MhZ/Ghz is what is best.
your average Joe - who is DELL's largest consumer - beside possible server market - hear the name Intel and think it is a gerat PC - they heard the name AMD and think - wtf is that?
Intel marketing far exceeds that of AMD and because of that even though the prescott is currently a flop -your average Joe wont care - all he cares about is he is getting the latest and greatest CPU that runs @ 3.4ghz!! so it MUST be the best an fastest - he has not idea about shorter pipilines and such so Intel is the way to go!
AMD seriouslyt needs to improve their marketing to direct more towards your everday user.
Slashdot Mirror
as far as i knew - why are people refering to PCIe as PCI-X when PCI-X is the PCI slot use in most servber boards....!!!!
just what we need is more confusion!
poor you - i think i have an old SIS 16mb agp 2x card you can have :) hehe
:)) - then until these recently made accusations (mainly circling around the game FarCry and changing of the .exe name results in lower performance - same trick nvidia tried before) i will be very hesitent to buy an NVIDIA card.
Well, the way i see it - i do trust ATI more then i do NVIDIA - as for the reasons mentioned because when ATI was called out - they admitted it and stopped where as NVIDIA did not and continued with it.
I know every company cheats somewhere to try and get ahead, for me it is more so how they deal with the accusations once caught - for me NVIDIA did not do this very well at all and because of the "possibility" of still cheating or "optimizations" occuring - (but not yet proven and i hope the acusations are wrong as i want a dual DVI output video card
I wish trident / SIS or Matrox could compete with NVIDIA and ATI in the high end gaming market as more competitors would be nice! I am sure those companies wwould cheat eventually, maybe... or not. - any word on the SIS vid card that was supposed to compete with the high end ?
Oh well - my side is i would rather recommend ATI right now due to what seems to be once again a new card with better performance - better IQ and quality, and better performance once AA and FSAA are turned up and less power consumption and space saving (although who uses all PCI slots anyways) Also, ATI has gone a good long time with out doing any "optmizations" to their drivers to give more FPS and less IQ. To each their own in the end.
LOL i am ignorant, nice that you make the assumption i am an ATI fanboy - sorry, but there you are wrong.
I know the history - again yourself being ignoratn assuming i dont - I am aware of ATi cheating in the past as are many others - when was the last time they cheated - removed shadows / lighting and other scenese from games? - I am also aware of them (ATI) coming out and admitting it and then stopping the "cheating" - NVIDIA how ever did not - when nvidia was accused of cheating they began encrypting their drives and dening everything! that was said - If you are blind to that then the fanboy here is the NVIDIOT.
i own many flavours of cards - in fact more NVIDIA then ATI - my ti4200 and ti4600 ULTRA kick butt - the FX line how ever i can not say the same. I buy what card is worth my money. I would buy NVIDIA again if theire card is superious to ATI - and if they cna earn my trust back and assure me they are not "optmizing" their drives for more FPS and lower IQ.
MS does not give 2 shiets about the pirates - they are people who would not of bought the software anyways! this applies to the game pirates / movies etc - most of these "kids" can not afford these items and there for their impact on companies market share is minimal compared to the "magic" numbers these companies come up with that they would like you to beleive. Mayeb this is a sign that more companies should provide "demos!!!!!!"
MS makes it's money from volume licensing and large corpate companies!
Anyways MS has screwd up - even with pirated version on can avoid windows updates site directly and download the patches seperatly which do not seem to check for serial keys - one can even go as far as running their own windows update site from their network and provide updates. I know this as i know some people with not legal copies and have gotten updates for them with out problems simply by downloading the updates individually from MS security bulletins! Godo job ms!
Why are you complaning about a "gamers" card not having support for this, no support for linux, crap support for this.....
:)
You are complaining about a card thats primary purpose is for gaming - not design - What O/S has brought in the most money - i think we know the answer, unfortuantly - so because of the time is spend developing driver for the platform that will bring them the most finacial benfit - welcome to the world of buisness - i am sure if more devlopers coded for Linux, then support for "gamers" cards would increase - so dont get mad @ ATI or NVIDIA or Matrox - get made at the game developers for not wanting to spend their time on a platform that is ever chaging what seems to be weekly.
last time i checked ATI's FireGl had full support for linux and so did NVIDIA Quadro cards.... So if your a desginer - buy a designers card and stop complaining how your Gamers card lacks OpenGL support for working on 3d renders and other such projects or other features that do not belong in a "gamers" card anyways.
Okay, end of my useless rant
Why would you be using a "gamers" card to go graphics you should be using an OpenGL card like a FireGL or a quadro...
Same reason why people buy high end sports cars that will never get to use thei 500HP or why people buy 48' plasma's tv
becuase they can - some people do have jobs that pay good money that they can afford to buy the luxuries in life.
I used to never have this option - i had my pIII 533 / AIW rage 128 / 512 ram and 40g HD computer for 3 years!!
Now that i got a good job i am spec'n out a dual opteron system (pending on the next ATI AIW card and PCIe) that will run me about $4k - WHy you ask do i do this - because i can, and i want something that strong! that will kick ass to anything i throw out it with out worries. I alwasy buy other things i want , like nice clothes and such! it doesnt just stop with computers - it is called "living the life!"
usually dirvers issues are result of specific confirgurations in your system - ATI drivers are of top quality now and often exceed that of NVIDIA now.
Ever since the radeon line of drivers ATI has been excellent in their drivers support. It is true previous to that ATI did have poor support (myself though never having any issues and have had more BSOD"s with nvidia drivers)
Did you ever consider it may have been something else in your system conflicting with the drivers -to blow this off and never go to ATI because of this to me is ridiculous. It may have even been a bad card - it does happen.
Also - do you trust a company that is known to "optimize" their drivers to the point of removing entire scenese from games, shadow and lighting sections?
I would ait until some image quality testing comes out to see if NVIDIA has gone to good side as opposed to staying on the cheaters side.
Well, it is not as if you are forced to use longhorn in the first place :)
Many "consumers" or joe blows are still running 98SE and ME and many still so 95 - i would assuje based on the amount of people i talk to for support for our company...... XP likely has far less market in the typical home users home then 98 still does - so longhorn will likely be very little more so when it comes out and or a few years after wards.
whoops i meant, it is done with the CPU not GPU
most rendering is done with the CPU, not the CPU from my understanding.
How many people actually USE all of their PCI slots in todays computers? very few because Audio / LAN are usually built in now in most motherboards so that still leaves you with 3 or 4 PCI slots to use. 1. tv tuner card 2. second video card 3. SCSI card 4. extra sound card ???? Also, anyone who puts a PCI card in the slot below the vid card is asking for heating problems anyways, so why not make use of it by the video card. The whole argument about an extra PCI slot being taken up is reather lame if you ask me.
I still wont buy the nvidia cards for a while, they need to prove to me that they are no longer using their so called "optimizations" still, everyone thought they were gone in the 43* drives, but then POOF they reappear in the 53* drivers. When i play a game i want to see ALL of the scenes, ALL of the lighting and ALL of the shodows.
I know, other companies cheat, but when ATI got caught - they stopped - NVIDIA conitued to do it and deny they were doing it.
I love my Ti4200 and ti4600 ULTRA and i love my radeon 9700PRO - my next purchase will likely be the 9800 AIW.
Until NVIDIA stops the lying and acting as if we are all sheep and will by their cards because it is faster - i wont.
I guess this compares to AMD and INTEL - NVIDIA being INTEL in trying to make people think that more speed is what is needed - where as ATI is like AMD - the speeds maybe slower - but they are more efficient at what they do and most of the time come out on top anyways.
P.S - Sad review - comparing the new card to something so old.
"Its is a sad reflection on the world that so many computer users out there are willing to mess around pushing their already exceptionally good hardware to acheive modest speed increases, whilst being scared of looking at the software underneath. "
:)
Why is it a sad reflection that people want to get the most for their money? People do this with everything - their cars, other electronics, anything that they can push to limits - we do (we = humans)
Your telling me that going from 2.4Ghz to 3.2Ghz is a "modest: increase in performance?
I loved having a 3.2ghz processor when the fastest you could buy was a 2.8Ghz one.
I do strongly agree with you on the software side of things - But also learning the many languages and decompiliing an application, if one can takes much longer time - where as overclocking is easily learned
If coding wasnt so sloppy we would likely be in the world of still using PIII 1ghz machines and not these 3Ghz+ systems with 50 billion gigs of ram and a video card that can process a billion, trillion infinite number of pixels per second.
For me overclocking allows me to take my system and make it last that much longer and not have to go buy new hardware. I myself only use Air cooling, nothing extreme. This is ahobby for many, just like other people's hobbies.
to each their own but i in no way find this to be "sad"
thank you for correcting me - i had read in a previousl article that it was not fully 64bit :) glad to see it is :)
I ahd spec'd out a dual 248 opteron system - this was with a radeon 9800XT as well and 2g of ram and it was going to cost me around $3kUS - considering each CPU was about $1k each.
The reason Windows system get infected in a corptate environment is because the system administrators dont know how to properly maintain their network and computers under them, it is the system admins that should be fired. Ihave a network here or 23 computers and not one has ever gotten a virus or been down due to a windows bug -Why, because i know how to maintain my systems. Now lets get into if MAC were on %85 of the worlds computers- there WOULD be as many viruses and such as what windows has now and you would see just as many problems and patches for OSX and previous / future versions. A mac network / workplace can go down just as easily as a windows system if it is not properly maintained.
i would hope that they have something other then a gamers video card that your everyday joe has. Even an Oxygen card or something that would specialize for their need. ANY seirous gfx person knows to use FireGl and Quadro type cards - so i would think if they spent all this money on these G5's they would have some good video hardware pushing it....
from all this reading
:)
1. Apple DOES NOT MAKE THE HARDWARE - IBM and other 3rd party companies do - Apple simply puts their name on it.
2. Mac OSX is not even 64bit capabale as far as i know?
3. Windows 64bit does exist for AMD64' (64bit cpu's) also you have Server 2003 which is 64bit - then you also have th elinux flavours.
4.The main reason Pixar for G5's is because Steve Jobs owns both companies so WHY would he want the competitors making money from him - pixar likely paid next to nothing for those systems.
5. Go spec out a dual Xeon system - yeah it will run you about $1500 US for an "okay" system - go spec out a dual G5 - your looking @ over $2k + - i have done my own price comparisons and each time i can get a PC that has everything a MAC has an often more for the same price - especially when you include 21' studio displays - of cours each one beats out the other in various "tests". neither is ever a mile ahead as so many reviews want you to beleive.
Anyways - what ever works - g5's got some good stuff and is definetly a saviour to MAC users world around from the G4 giant paper weight - but for all the MAC zealots stop worshipping your system and realize that PC are not the crap you think they are.
End of my rant for now.
P.S - can anyone spare $2k so i can get my own G5?
no, i think your computer has spyware..lol
:)
just opened in IE with no Anti-v or pop-up blockers on this system
i hate to think the AMOUNT of sites you have blocked for something not even their fault but yours.
The problem is why go with AMD when your everday Joe only knows about "Intel inside" and that more MhZ /Ghz is what is best.
your average Joe - who is DELL's largest consumer - beside possible server market - hear the name Intel and think it is a gerat PC - they heard the name AMD and think - wtf is that?
Intel marketing far exceeds that of AMD and because of that even though the prescott is currently a flop -your average Joe wont care - all he cares about is he is getting the latest and greatest CPU that runs @ 3.4ghz!! so it MUST be the best an fastest - he has not idea about shorter pipilines and such so Intel is the way to go!
AMD seriouslyt needs to improve their marketing to direct more towards your everday user.
They claim to make the most powerful gaming system and yet they ONLY use a NV36 video card...lol
that is funny - that shows their level of creditbility and quality of their product right there!
Anyways back to your regulary scheduled comments.