Untill then...As I said the device i describe will be net aware. So it uploads its data regularly. The software is only to show the BSA that your ratio of computers to software is in fact fair.
Still won't cover computers not connected to the net. Chances are the BSA (or their puppetmasters) will have evidence of licenses purchased for disconnected computers and that would give them a loophole still. Microsoft's Palladium idea would virtually kill a machine that's not net aware, but providing the net costs $$$ that some people don't have/aren't willing to pay. Further, I'd cancel my internet if I had to switch to Palladium. Actually, I'd probly destroy my computers and go live in a cave, because at that time this society won't be worth even partially living in.
Im merely engineering here...i think site licenses are pretty retarded;-).
Do you really think engineering can solve human problems? That's the basis of my argument, which probably wasn't clear in my other post.:) Technology can't solve human problems. It can improve the human condition. It can make humans healthier/safer/happier. But it can never prevent someone from doing exactly what they want to do. NOr can it provide a perfect fix for someone who's trying their damnedest to be legal with their software. Mistakes are human, and it's a human problem. Engineer a human solution to the human problem, and a technological solution to a technological problem. But "don't cross the streams. It would be bad."
An unacceptable solution. What if fire destroys your computers? So you use the same media to install on the new computers, and find yourself in license violation.
Big Brother style politics will not solve the problem, it will only obfuscate it. Implementing Big Brother style politics into technological solutions will never solve the human problem (or, in the case of the BSA, the inhuman problem).
Bottom line is this: freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. When the government (or anybody else, for that matter) tries to take your responsibility, they will be taking away a portion of your freedom as well. Even if they (and you) think they are doing you a favor.
get sort of annoyed when some half-asleep kid wants to frisk me on the way out of the store
Are you one of the two women that read slashdot?
In any case, Guitar Center does this too, and I'd really love for the girl checking my receipt to frisk me. She'd find something wood, but she might have to look pretty hard (it's pretty small, and not in a pocket).
I'm curious to know if the registry scanner has the capability to differentiate between actively installed software and previously installed software that failed to correctly uninstall itself? My guess is no.
Well, chances are pretty good Microsoft wrote the registry scanner the BSA will use. The OS can't tell the difference, so why should their scanning tool be able to?
Since they weren't created by the government, but they are enforcing laws, I declare them to be vigilantes, which is illegal, iirc. Fight them, don't help them. Do you want to make the world a better place, or a worse place?
Sure I did. Of course, whether they have any legal basis or not, and if so whether it confers rights on the BSA rather than the software vendor(s), are different questions. The BSA can find out in court, if they really want to know whether I've got any illegal software installed (I haven't) and they're prepared to risk a test case that could destroy their whole threat model (I doubt it).
First, you agreed to the EULA and the BSA can hold it to you. Simply by giving their corporate member a call and asking for the necessary credentials (if they don't have them already). They only have to become a "designated representative of the company" or something like that. The same reason the guy who answers your tech support call has to provide you tech support even though you didn't personally make your agreement with him. (Does this imply that the BSA is on Microsoft's payroll? Yes, of course, read on)
Second, the BSA is using a long-practiced business model. Extortion. They are using the tried and true model of, say for example, the Italian Mob. Here's an example:
Guido: Mr. Chapman, if you don't pay us for protection, there are many criminal elements in this neighborhood who will do serious damage to your business.
Mr. Chapman: I'm sorry, but isn't that what the police are for? I won't pay.
-- later --
Guido: Say Boss, Chapman didn't pay up.
Boss: Send out an enforcement team.
-- later --
Enforcement team thrashes Chapman's business and beats him within an inch of his life.
-- later (in the hospital) --
Guido: What happened, Mr. Chapman? Did you get assaulted by those criminal elements I warned you about?
Mr. Chapman: Yes. I'll pay! I'll pay!
-- end 1 act play --
The BSA have no grounds, really. They are enforcing Intellectual Property law, and they are assessing fines, and searching (and seizing, no doubt) private and public property without a warrant. They are not a law enforcement agency, however. They are a private agency. Their NP status is only to prevent the government from attacking them (and probably helps a lot with taxes and so forth), but I'll bet many of their employees receive paychecks from more than one company. In any case, they exist to enforce EULAs that were not made into law in the first place. Effectively, they threaten to bring the law against you. Kinda like "Hey bro, if you don't give me $20, I'll tell the cops you sell dope, and that'll cost you a lot more."
The BSA is a group of vigilante lawmakers and enforcers, and even though they're not a government agency they must be stopped! THEY are the Lex Luthors and <insert favorite super-villain here>s of the present, and they *must* be destroyed.
Stand up to them. Tell them to fuck off. Instead of doing an audit, spend your money implementing free solutions. Don't worry about price of implementation, or function, or anything like that. Enact the FIRST RULE OF BUSINESS, and COVER YOUR ASS. Destroy all copies of any proprietary software within your organization and install nothing but free software. Then tell them they can't audit you because you canceled your end of the agreement.
When they assess a fine, tell them "I won't pay it. You're not a judge appointed by a duly elected representative, and I sure in the fuck didn't vote for you or any politician that created you." When they drag you into court, you COUNTERSUE them, and charge them with extortion! (if you can, extortion might be rigidly defined as threatening physical harm, but i'm not a lawyer)
When the BSA knocks on your door, you have a perfect opportunity to fight for your freedom, and it's not only a fight that means something, it's also a fight worth winning.
It occurs to me that many people here claim that DVDs aren't licensed, but rather you buy the physical media. So if the DVD isn't licensed, what right do you have to download a copy of a movie if you accidently damage the DVD?
I disagree with licensing in general. SOftware licensing, music licensing, movie licensing. It's all a bunch of crap. However, our legal system (and the media, and pretty much everybody, with a few exceptions), use this as a system. Whether I like it or not, whether i try to change it or not, I still have to interact with this system.
If you buy a car, for example, and you break it. Can you steal another car to replace it? Yes, I know, there is a fundamental difference between physical and intellectual property, so it's a poor analogy, but it's the best I can think of on short notice.
Indeed, that is actually a decent analogy. Consider that you can restate it this way: I bought a car. I bought a physical car. In doing so, I also licensed the content of the car from the manufacturer (transportation), and in the future the manufacturer must provide me access to transportation regardless of what happens to the original media I purchased. This doesn't hold water for me. I disagree with the idea that I should legally be allowed to copy the content because I licensed it. OTOH, content *can* be copied. The content in the contrived example cannot be copied without providing another physical medium, but the content of the DVD can be copied without providing another physical medium. It can also be copied by providing more physical media that is returned after the copying, and both parties then have a copy (like what I did the LOTR).
It's not as cut and dried as the community puts it, but neither is it as cut and dried as either Valenti or the Constitution puts it. I'm of the old school that gives credit where credit is due, pay when you can, copy when you can't pay (or can't find, as in the case of Wrathchild America). Live and let live, otherwise, but under no circumstances do you attempt to dictate to someone else what they can and can't do with their computer/stereo/car/dick/whatever.
Personally I don't care. fucksl4shd0t can download all the fsck'ing movies he wants as far as I'm concerned, but I'm curious how he rationalizes the difference.
Heh, I don't need to rationalize the differences. In order to do so, I'd first have to agree that stealing content is morally wrong. I think that existing codes of morality are hopelessly out of date and useless in this matter. I don't think there's anything morally wrong with copying content that somebody else produced, so long as you don't claim it as your own. Like the GPL, I don't give a shit if the content producer (or software developer) wants to make money off his stuff or not. I really don't give a shit if the movie companies want me to buy the media or go to the theater or rent it, but do nothing else. I don't rent 'cause I hate the rental outfits. I don't go to the theater because it's too expensive to take a family of 4 to the theater (and my kids are still very small, which is its own problem in a movie theater). I buy media whenever I want, but that's largely dictated by the availability of money. I download because it doesn't cost me any money and it doesn't violate my morality.:) (or amorality, if you prefer)
Is it just me, or does it seem that the NYT is more and more operating like a tabloid? Let's see:
NYT Headlines:
Thousands whine about how we don't check our facts
Calif: Internet technology site Slashdot today reported five headlines demonizing Microsoft without checking their facts, and they consistently require New York Times and affiliate to check their own facts.....
Well, okay, I'm withholding part of what I said to Wil. After reading his site and posts elsewhere, I actually think he's pretty cool. Still don't think I'd want to hang out with Kevin. Too much ego.
Oooohhhh publicly admitting you're going to download a movie? I can just see it now
Heh, however, I'll be willing to bet that if they swarmed me over this and I actually got to court (not that your scenario presented the possibility) with some sort of legal funding (a bunch of ifs, I know), then I can present the case where I legally purchased a license to the content of the media, but my kid destroyed the media. So I was exercising my rights that I licensed when I purchased the movie originally.
Of course, if you buy a car, and then go and crash it into a brick wall, you can't expect the dealer to give you a replacement. You fucked it up yourself.
Too much gray area, let's get rid of Intellectual Property entirely.:) Whatever happened to the days where you could do anything you wanted as long as you credited your sources? (Like the Offspring crediting Def Leppard for the sample that opens up Pretty Fly for a White Guy)
This was over 10 years ago (around 1988 or '89);
network security and tools was not what it is to day.
I hate to point out the obvious, but here goes:
From the original poster: Were it not for people like Keven the system we rely apon would even be more pathetically insecure.
Were it not for people like Kevin, the system we rely upon wouldn't need to be so damned airtight.:) (two sides, and arguing either side doesn't get you anywhere)
Anyway, to continue:
And you don't know if the attacker is malicious: you get to worry about "worst case" scenarios. You don't get to know what systems were compromised.
I have a problem with "worst case" scenario that motivates me to keep my machines as close to stock config as possible. If someone cracks my machine, I can rebuild it quickly and easily. I don't know what was available in '89 or whenever, (well, I know what was in my home, but that's probably different than what DEC was running on production machines) but it seems like this would be an old, tried and true security practice. Keep machines close to stock. Apply latest patches, and when you get the patches, back them up to tape, disc, or whatever. (When you rebuild the box, you may likely do it without a net connection, because you need the patch before you can safely hit the net)
Net result is a very large cost to the organization attacked.
Difficult, the cost is hardly standardized. If I steal the old beater car down the street, they might value the loss at $500. If I steal Bill Gates' car (whatever it is), he might value the loss at $50000 (or whatever he paid for it, but knowing Gates he'd value it at MSRP*5 for every potential passenger). Furthermore, if I steal the city bus, that loss might be valued even higher. But who loses most? Many people ride the city bus because they *can't* drive, and might lose their jobs if they're late because of the bus I stole. Is Gates under the same sort of gun there? Somehow I get the feeling that stealing Gates' car would be valued higher than stealing a city bus (ie, those poor fucks can just catch the next bus).
What college do you go to where primary registration doesn't occur during the preceeding semester. At UK [uky.edu], we registered in November for spring classes, April for summer and fall session. If you need an exemption, go check in with your INS officer, most of these people had slipped under the radar
Eh? beats me, I never went to college. I'm one of the teeming masses of illiterate garbage that read slashdot but aren't qualified to say anything. (yeah, I have "issues" about the perceived differences between college kids that have their brains full of shit but can't think and non-college kids that can think)
Furthermore, I'm not an immigrant.
Even more, I anticipated that there would already be lots of paper checks in place to deal with the exact situation I presented.
I was merely trying to present a situation where someone could legitimately be here without being either a slave or a citizen
So if I recklessly beat somebody on yahoo poker, and they get so depressed they kill themselves and yahoo stock goes down from the bad press, I can be locked up FOREVER? That seems a little harsh
I don't think that's considered hacking.
However, if you live in a state that has the death penalty, and you want to commit murder, consider this scenario:
Well, simply beat the hell out of someone with your half-tower computer. You may need to run a stable OS to make sure it stays running while you do the killing. Then, in court, you just say it was a computer hacking offense, because "Judge, I used the computer to hack my victim to pieces. Then I used my mop to clean it up." Then you're safe from the death penalty, but you might get life in prison.
it's in rather poor taste to even ask the victim to be objective here (assuming the story is true, of course).
Agreed. Too often, though, a girl cries rape and gets a man convicted who didn't ever rape her, or anybody else for that matter.
You're fucked either way. Can't expect an honest victim to provide objective proof, but can't determine if the victim is honest without objective proof.
Luckily, in this case, it's irrelevant. What's more important is that there are victims of Kevin's crimes, and they may or may not have the same sentiments as the original poster. But I have to say that I wouldn't care how my data was stored if it was always safe. If it's stolen, I will care that it could have been stored better. It's a reactionary feeling, but it's the best I can do with my bank. With my computer I can do differently, of course, and I do differently on my computer. But what else can you do with the bank? How many credit card numbers have to be stolen a certain way for them to really worry about securing it? It's all about the bottom line. There's no such thing as a non-profit bank.
Re:Please don't give 'Funny' comments to interview
on
Kevin Mitnick Answers
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· Score: 1
Perhaps you have to sign an NDA as you leave prison saying you'll never talk about your experiences? Including the NDA? I've never heard or seen or read anything by anyone supporting the view of prisons we see in the movies.
You just need to get your head out of your ass, that's all.
I used to run with a bunch of guys, and we all lived in slightly shadier circles. There I learned that the difference between the state pen and the federal pen is the difference between doing hard, satisfying work (state pen) and getting ass-raped (federal pen). Also, if you just knock over a bank or something, you won't usually get locked up with the sex offenders. It's the sex offenders that really get you. IMO, if we executed the sex offenders when they commit rape in prison (proving their guilt) and let the ones go that don't commit rape in prison (demonstrating more plausibility of innocence), we'd have better luck with the problem. Anyway, the point is, it depends entirely on what prison you're sent to. What prison did Kevin go to? He certainly did federal time, but there's still variety in the federal prisons as well.
The rest aren't US citizens, they are here on student or work visa's, if you aren't working/studying your ass should be deported.
So, if you're here between semesters and you haven't yet registered for the next semester, and you're partying it out with your friends, you should be deported?:)
Send us all your tired, weak, your hungry, sick, disgusted...
Terrorism presents a very tough battleground where civilians are used as camoflauge instead of trees. There will be a few mistakes. We either accept that there will be grey areas in the law that allow these mistakes to happen
Unacceptable. These are peoples' lives, and the price is too great. We can't throw away even one person just because the law allows it to happen. The purpose of law is to provide the rules that prevent these sorts of mistakes in the first place, and by allowing mistakes you defeat the law.
It is acceptable, however, that the law isn't necessarily perfect the first time, so long as it is constantly improved and pushed towards perfection. As in the Miranda case, for example. However, in the end, justice must be served.
Of course, I don't believe in "justice" anyway, but since that's the basis of our legal system, we should at least expect the law people to practice what they preach.
or our executive branch can be touchy feely and become ineffective and a joke to the enemies.
It's too late to stop that now, and has been since before any of us were born. Face it, the US is the playground bully these days. "Give us your lunch money or we'll bomb you into oblivion. If you don't believe us, just watch what we were showing our citizens on tv the last time we pulled this stunt."
I'm proud to be an American and I'm impressed by the progress we've made so far to evolve.
By all means, take your pride! Keep it. I'm proud to be free, but it has nothing to do with being an American. Our countries history isn't any better than anybody else's, and worse in a few places, than many. Our present isn't any different than our past, and our country is just not worth as much as people seem to think it is. (yeha, yeah, ultimately the value of something has to do with perceived value and so forth) Freedom of religion? Reference various persecutions throughout our history (including current, presentday persecution of moslems in the US). Freedom of speech? How about the arrest of peaceful protestors through the '60s and '70s? Even today? (yeah, I know, considering the amounts of protests the statistics favor someone being arrested wrongly under the circumstances)
I get sick of hearing people talk about America like it has come a long way. We smashed everything that's opposed us, and here we sit on the corpses of our past enemies and talk of peace. *cough*bullshit*cough* Worse yet, it's peace at the barrel of a gun (ref: current Iraq situation).
This is no different then what happens in south america. The people the govt doesn't like disapear.
This is an extremely perverted comparison. Again, too many conspiracy theory movies that portray our goverment as evil. I'm not even going to bother presenting reference material.
So you're going to cite the original poster as making a perverted comparison and then declare that you won't present evidence to substantiate your claim? Since you're so proud to be an American, why don't you assume the burden of guilt that the accuser is required to assume, as it is done here in America?
I'm not saying this place is a shithole, I'm just pointing out that America doesn't live up to its own standards and it prances around the rest of the world bombing out everyone else who also doesn't live up to American standards. Being #1 isn't good enough for me. Being better than whatever comes in second (not like anyone ever bothers to tell you what comes in second) isn't good enough. Being better in relationship to other people is a poor standard of comparison. Why don't we instead try to be better than we are now? Today, be better at something than you were yesterday. Today, show more compassion than you did yesterday. Today, take another step to improve your life, as you did yesterday. There's no such thing as "good enough".
last i checked Universal is still going thru with the 'we screwed up the formatting on the last two discs, send us back the dvds and we'll send you a new one' plan, right? maybe you can send it back to them with your kid's artwork on it and hope they dont notice. =)
Hey, that's not a bad idea, actually.
Consider that regardless of what Valenti says, downloading a 700MB file on any home broadband connection only takes about 20000 minutes (not counting practical time spent when you factor in users logging in and out all the time, and time spent in peoples' queues), I figure I can start the download and I'll still have about a week or so to try to clean the disc itself. If the disc comes clean and plays, great! Cancel the download (not needed anymore). If it comes clean but doesn't play, send it back. Then, in the 6-10 weeks or so while I'm waiting for a replacement I'll have a downloaded copy to watch, if I should wish to watch it. Akin to having a friend loan you a train that fits Valenti's standard tracks while your engine is in the shop.
Sorry, that standards comment of his is damn close to unbearable. Heh.
Is anyone stupid enough to believe a DVD is indestructable? My 8 year old single-handedly destroyed 2 of them this weekend alone. Does she no longer posess the liscense to view 'Shrek' because she stepped on the DVD, or can she watch the backup I made of it?
My 4-year-old wrote all over the movie side of my Back to the Future II DVD this morning, and I'm pretty pissed about it. I bought the set of the 3 movies for $50. Now I'm going to download a replacement and try to get it burned onto an svcd.
From the article:
You have to have copy prevention mandated by the government sooner or later because otherwise everybody's not playing by the same ground rules. For example, the standards of my cell phone have to be mandated by the FCC because everybody has to operate off the same standards. Also, all railroad tracks in this country are the same standardized width.
Exactly how does protecting your intellectual property compare to a standard that brings about industrialization? It's not like movie companies do anything productive for society, they just entertain us. They don't ship food the the hungry, or build houses for the homeless, or do any important scientific research. They just make goddamn movies!
They really dodge the question, which is this: If Sun releases a completely free-as-in-speech OS, can they write commercial GPL applications with Qt?
When I communicated with Trolltech about this issue, it boiled down to these things: (mind you, I was intending to write for Linux, not for any Sun OS)
1. If I were going to charge a fee for my software, it didn't matter what license I used, I had to pay for a Trolltech license. Basically, if I were going to make money from selling the software, I had to pay for a developer's license.
2. If I were going to distribute the software for free, but I was going to be paid by a company (in this case, the company that I own), then I had to buy a license.
3. If I were going to develop the software with commercial interests for Windows (or any other non-free OS) then I had to buy a license.
4. If I were going to distribute the software for free, under the GPL, for only free OSs, then I didn't have to buy a license, even if I was developing it for the company and being paid to do so.
The idea is that they want to make money from you under these conditions:
1. The software is proprietary, regardless of cost.
2. You work for a company and are paid to develop the software for internal use only.
3. You intend to distribute anything except the student/hobbyist software for Windows or Mac.
The FAQ isn't real clear about it, in this sense, but it probably clears up the issue for most free software developers. But what if you work for RedHat and you're a KDE hacker? Does RedHat own a license for you? Or are you allowed to do that?
Bottom line is, Qt isn't free, no matter how many times they give it to KDE developers for free with GPL attached to it. It's still not free.
Well, I found something that talks about making Linux more compatible with Solaris, but it doesn't mention Sun wanting to phase out Solaris in favor of Linux. Maybe I'm confusing this article with one I read where IBM really does intend to replace AIX with Linux instead.
Slashdot Mirror
Untill then...As I said the device i describe will be net aware. So it uploads its data regularly. The software is only to show the BSA that your ratio of computers to software is in fact fair.
Still won't cover computers not connected to the net. Chances are the BSA (or their puppetmasters) will have evidence of licenses purchased for disconnected computers and that would give them a loophole still. Microsoft's Palladium idea would virtually kill a machine that's not net aware, but providing the net costs $$$ that some people don't have/aren't willing to pay. Further, I'd cancel my internet if I had to switch to Palladium. Actually, I'd probly destroy my computers and go live in a cave, because at that time this society won't be worth even partially living in.
Im merely engineering here...i think site licenses are pretty retarded ;-).
Do you really think engineering can solve human problems? That's the basis of my argument, which probably wasn't clear in my other post. :) Technology can't solve human problems. It can improve the human condition. It can make humans healthier/safer/happier. But it can never prevent someone from doing exactly what they want to do. NOr can it provide a perfect fix for someone who's trying their damnedest to be legal with their software. Mistakes are human, and it's a human problem. Engineer a human solution to the human problem, and a technological solution to a technological problem. But "don't cross the streams. It would be bad."
(eg write only without capability of deleting)
An unacceptable solution. What if fire destroys your computers? So you use the same media to install on the new computers, and find yourself in license violation.
Big Brother style politics will not solve the problem, it will only obfuscate it. Implementing Big Brother style politics into technological solutions will never solve the human problem (or, in the case of the BSA, the inhuman problem).
Bottom line is this: freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. When the government (or anybody else, for that matter) tries to take your responsibility, they will be taking away a portion of your freedom as well. Even if they (and you) think they are doing you a favor.
get sort of annoyed when some half-asleep kid wants to frisk me on the way out of the store
Are you one of the two women that read slashdot?
In any case, Guitar Center does this too, and I'd really love for the girl checking my receipt to frisk me. She'd find something wood, but she might have to look pretty hard (it's pretty small, and not in a pocket).
They seem to have no problem using peoples fear and turning it into the driving force
Doesn't that make them terrorists? Can't we use the Patriot Act against them, or something?
I'm curious to know if the registry scanner has the capability to differentiate between actively installed software and previously installed software that failed to correctly uninstall itself? My guess is no.
Well, chances are pretty good Microsoft wrote the registry scanner the BSA will use. The OS can't tell the difference, so why should their scanning tool be able to?
I work in an enterprise environment.
In what way does this statement differ from "I have a job?", besides using large obfuscatory words?
Means he works for Captain Kirk?
besides using large obfuscatory words
What's the difference between saying this and saying "besides using doublespeak", besides using doublespeak?
The BSA does enforce copyright law
Since they weren't created by the government, but they are enforcing laws, I declare them to be vigilantes, which is illegal, iirc. Fight them, don't help them. Do you want to make the world a better place, or a worse place?
Sure I did. Of course, whether they have any legal basis or not, and if so whether it confers rights on the BSA rather than the software vendor(s), are different questions. The BSA can find out in court, if they really want to know whether I've got any illegal software installed (I haven't) and they're prepared to risk a test case that could destroy their whole threat model (I doubt it).
First, you agreed to the EULA and the BSA can hold it to you. Simply by giving their corporate member a call and asking for the necessary credentials (if they don't have them already). They only have to become a "designated representative of the company" or something like that. The same reason the guy who answers your tech support call has to provide you tech support even though you didn't personally make your agreement with him. (Does this imply that the BSA is on Microsoft's payroll? Yes, of course, read on)
Second, the BSA is using a long-practiced business model. Extortion. They are using the tried and true model of, say for example, the Italian Mob. Here's an example:
Guido: Mr. Chapman, if you don't pay us for protection, there are many criminal elements in this neighborhood who will do serious damage to your business.
Mr. Chapman: I'm sorry, but isn't that what the police are for? I won't pay.
-- later --
Guido: Say Boss, Chapman didn't pay up.
Boss: Send out an enforcement team.
-- later --
Enforcement team thrashes Chapman's business and beats him within an inch of his life.
-- later (in the hospital) --
Guido: What happened, Mr. Chapman? Did you get assaulted by those criminal elements I warned you about?
Mr. Chapman: Yes. I'll pay! I'll pay!
-- end 1 act play --
The BSA have no grounds, really. They are enforcing Intellectual Property law, and they are assessing fines, and searching (and seizing, no doubt) private and public property without a warrant. They are not a law enforcement agency, however. They are a private agency. Their NP status is only to prevent the government from attacking them (and probably helps a lot with taxes and so forth), but I'll bet many of their employees receive paychecks from more than one company. In any case, they exist to enforce EULAs that were not made into law in the first place. Effectively, they threaten to bring the law against you. Kinda like "Hey bro, if you don't give me $20, I'll tell the cops you sell dope, and that'll cost you a lot more."
The BSA is a group of vigilante lawmakers and enforcers, and even though they're not a government agency they must be stopped! THEY are the Lex Luthors and <insert favorite super-villain here>s of the present, and they *must* be destroyed.
Stand up to them. Tell them to fuck off. Instead of doing an audit, spend your money implementing free solutions. Don't worry about price of implementation, or function, or anything like that. Enact the FIRST RULE OF BUSINESS, and COVER YOUR ASS. Destroy all copies of any proprietary software within your organization and install nothing but free software. Then tell them they can't audit you because you canceled your end of the agreement.
When they assess a fine, tell them "I won't pay it. You're not a judge appointed by a duly elected representative, and I sure in the fuck didn't vote for you or any politician that created you." When they drag you into court, you COUNTERSUE them, and charge them with extortion! (if you can, extortion might be rigidly defined as threatening physical harm, but i'm not a lawyer)
When the BSA knocks on your door, you have a perfect opportunity to fight for your freedom, and it's not only a fight that means something, it's also a fight worth winning.
It occurs to me that many people here claim that DVDs aren't licensed, but rather you buy the physical media. So if the DVD isn't licensed, what right do you have to download a copy of a movie if you accidently damage the DVD?
I disagree with licensing in general. SOftware licensing, music licensing, movie licensing. It's all a bunch of crap. However, our legal system (and the media, and pretty much everybody, with a few exceptions), use this as a system. Whether I like it or not, whether i try to change it or not, I still have to interact with this system.
If you buy a car, for example, and you break it. Can you steal another car to replace it? Yes, I know, there is a fundamental difference between physical and intellectual property, so it's a poor analogy, but it's the best I can think of on short notice.
Indeed, that is actually a decent analogy. Consider that you can restate it this way: I bought a car. I bought a physical car. In doing so, I also licensed the content of the car from the manufacturer (transportation), and in the future the manufacturer must provide me access to transportation regardless of what happens to the original media I purchased. This doesn't hold water for me. I disagree with the idea that I should legally be allowed to copy the content because I licensed it. OTOH, content *can* be copied. The content in the contrived example cannot be copied without providing another physical medium, but the content of the DVD can be copied without providing another physical medium. It can also be copied by providing more physical media that is returned after the copying, and both parties then have a copy (like what I did the LOTR).
It's not as cut and dried as the community puts it, but neither is it as cut and dried as either Valenti or the Constitution puts it. I'm of the old school that gives credit where credit is due, pay when you can, copy when you can't pay (or can't find, as in the case of Wrathchild America). Live and let live, otherwise, but under no circumstances do you attempt to dictate to someone else what they can and can't do with their computer/stereo/car/dick/whatever.
Personally I don't care. fucksl4shd0t can download all the fsck'ing movies he wants as far as I'm concerned, but I'm curious how he rationalizes the difference.
Heh, I don't need to rationalize the differences. In order to do so, I'd first have to agree that stealing content is morally wrong. I think that existing codes of morality are hopelessly out of date and useless in this matter. I don't think there's anything morally wrong with copying content that somebody else produced, so long as you don't claim it as your own. Like the GPL, I don't give a shit if the content producer (or software developer) wants to make money off his stuff or not. I really don't give a shit if the movie companies want me to buy the media or go to the theater or rent it, but do nothing else. I don't rent 'cause I hate the rental outfits. I don't go to the theater because it's too expensive to take a family of 4 to the theater (and my kids are still very small, which is its own problem in a movie theater). I buy media whenever I want, but that's largely dictated by the availability of money. I download because it doesn't cost me any money and it doesn't violate my morality. :) (or amorality, if you prefer)
Is it just me, or does it seem that the NYT is more and more operating like a tabloid? Let's see:
NYT Headlines:
Thousands whine about how we don't check our facts
Calif: Internet technology site Slashdot today reported five headlines demonizing Microsoft without checking their facts, and they consistently require New York Times and affiliate to check their own facts.....
Well, okay, I'm withholding part of what I said to Wil. After reading his site and posts elsewhere, I actually think he's pretty cool. Still don't think I'd want to hang out with Kevin. Too much ego.
Yeah, agreed. Huge difference between the two:
Kevin: Too much ego.
Wil Wheaton: Not enough ego.
then quite a while with no net access the FIRST thing he plans to do is answer email?
Of course!
Kevin Mitnick: Well, I'm out of jail with no net access. I think I'll go get laid.
Oooohhhh publicly admitting you're going to download a movie? I can just see it now
Heh, however, I'll be willing to bet that if they swarmed me over this and I actually got to court (not that your scenario presented the possibility) with some sort of legal funding (a bunch of ifs, I know), then I can present the case where I legally purchased a license to the content of the media, but my kid destroyed the media. So I was exercising my rights that I licensed when I purchased the movie originally.
Of course, if you buy a car, and then go and crash it into a brick wall, you can't expect the dealer to give you a replacement. You fucked it up yourself.
Too much gray area, let's get rid of Intellectual Property entirely. :) Whatever happened to the days where you could do anything you wanted as long as you credited your sources? (Like the Offspring crediting Def Leppard for the sample that opens up Pretty Fly for a White Guy)
This was over 10 years ago (around 1988 or '89); network security and tools was not what it is to day.
I hate to point out the obvious, but here goes:
From the original poster: Were it not for people like Keven the system we rely apon would even be more pathetically insecure.
Were it not for people like Kevin, the system we rely upon wouldn't need to be so damned airtight. :) (two sides, and arguing either side doesn't get you anywhere)
Anyway, to continue:
And you don't know if the attacker is malicious: you get to worry about "worst case" scenarios. You don't get to know what systems were compromised.
I have a problem with "worst case" scenario that motivates me to keep my machines as close to stock config as possible. If someone cracks my machine, I can rebuild it quickly and easily. I don't know what was available in '89 or whenever, (well, I know what was in my home, but that's probably different than what DEC was running on production machines) but it seems like this would be an old, tried and true security practice. Keep machines close to stock. Apply latest patches, and when you get the patches, back them up to tape, disc, or whatever. (When you rebuild the box, you may likely do it without a net connection, because you need the patch before you can safely hit the net)
Net result is a very large cost to the organization attacked.
Difficult, the cost is hardly standardized. If I steal the old beater car down the street, they might value the loss at $500. If I steal Bill Gates' car (whatever it is), he might value the loss at $50000 (or whatever he paid for it, but knowing Gates he'd value it at MSRP*5 for every potential passenger). Furthermore, if I steal the city bus, that loss might be valued even higher. But who loses most? Many people ride the city bus because they *can't* drive, and might lose their jobs if they're late because of the bus I stole. Is Gates under the same sort of gun there? Somehow I get the feeling that stealing Gates' car would be valued higher than stealing a city bus (ie, those poor fucks can just catch the next bus).
What college do you go to where primary registration doesn't occur during the preceeding semester. At UK [uky.edu], we registered in November for spring classes, April for summer and fall session. If you need an exemption, go check in with your INS officer, most of these people had slipped under the radar
Eh? beats me, I never went to college. I'm one of the teeming masses of illiterate garbage that read slashdot but aren't qualified to say anything. (yeah, I have "issues" about the perceived differences between college kids that have their brains full of shit but can't think and non-college kids that can think)
Furthermore, I'm not an immigrant.
Even more, I anticipated that there would already be lots of paper checks in place to deal with the exact situation I presented.
I was merely trying to present a situation where someone could legitimately be here without being either a slave or a citizen
So if I recklessly beat somebody on yahoo poker, and they get so depressed they kill themselves and yahoo stock goes down from the bad press, I can be locked up FOREVER? That seems a little harsh
I don't think that's considered hacking.
However, if you live in a state that has the death penalty, and you want to commit murder, consider this scenario:
Well, simply beat the hell out of someone with your half-tower computer. You may need to run a stable OS to make sure it stays running while you do the killing. Then, in court, you just say it was a computer hacking offense, because "Judge, I used the computer to hack my victim to pieces. Then I used my mop to clean it up." Then you're safe from the death penalty, but you might get life in prison.
it's in rather poor taste to even ask the victim to be objective here (assuming the story is true, of course).
Agreed. Too often, though, a girl cries rape and gets a man convicted who didn't ever rape her, or anybody else for that matter.
You're fucked either way. Can't expect an honest victim to provide objective proof, but can't determine if the victim is honest without objective proof.
Luckily, in this case, it's irrelevant. What's more important is that there are victims of Kevin's crimes, and they may or may not have the same sentiments as the original poster. But I have to say that I wouldn't care how my data was stored if it was always safe. If it's stolen, I will care that it could have been stored better. It's a reactionary feeling, but it's the best I can do with my bank. With my computer I can do differently, of course, and I do differently on my computer. But what else can you do with the bank? How many credit card numbers have to be stolen a certain way for them to really worry about securing it? It's all about the bottom line. There's no such thing as a non-profit bank.
Perhaps you have to sign an NDA as you leave prison saying you'll never talk about your experiences? Including the NDA? I've never heard or seen or read anything by anyone supporting the view of prisons we see in the movies.
You just need to get your head out of your ass, that's all.
I used to run with a bunch of guys, and we all lived in slightly shadier circles. There I learned that the difference between the state pen and the federal pen is the difference between doing hard, satisfying work (state pen) and getting ass-raped (federal pen). Also, if you just knock over a bank or something, you won't usually get locked up with the sex offenders. It's the sex offenders that really get you. IMO, if we executed the sex offenders when they commit rape in prison (proving their guilt) and let the ones go that don't commit rape in prison (demonstrating more plausibility of innocence), we'd have better luck with the problem. Anyway, the point is, it depends entirely on what prison you're sent to. What prison did Kevin go to? He certainly did federal time, but there's still variety in the federal prisons as well.
The rest aren't US citizens, they are here on student or work visa's, if you aren't working/studying your ass should be deported.
So, if you're here between semesters and you haven't yet registered for the next semester, and you're partying it out with your friends, you should be deported? :)
Send us all your tired, weak, your hungry, sick, disgusted...
Terrorism presents a very tough battleground where civilians are used as camoflauge instead of trees. There will be a few mistakes. We either accept that there will be grey areas in the law that allow these mistakes to happen
Unacceptable. These are peoples' lives, and the price is too great. We can't throw away even one person just because the law allows it to happen. The purpose of law is to provide the rules that prevent these sorts of mistakes in the first place, and by allowing mistakes you defeat the law.
It is acceptable, however, that the law isn't necessarily perfect the first time, so long as it is constantly improved and pushed towards perfection. As in the Miranda case, for example. However, in the end, justice must be served.
Of course, I don't believe in "justice" anyway, but since that's the basis of our legal system, we should at least expect the law people to practice what they preach.
or our executive branch can be touchy feely and become ineffective and a joke to the enemies.
It's too late to stop that now, and has been since before any of us were born. Face it, the US is the playground bully these days. "Give us your lunch money or we'll bomb you into oblivion. If you don't believe us, just watch what we were showing our citizens on tv the last time we pulled this stunt."
I'm proud to be an American and I'm impressed by the progress we've made so far to evolve.
By all means, take your pride! Keep it. I'm proud to be free, but it has nothing to do with being an American. Our countries history isn't any better than anybody else's, and worse in a few places, than many. Our present isn't any different than our past, and our country is just not worth as much as people seem to think it is. (yeha, yeah, ultimately the value of something has to do with perceived value and so forth) Freedom of religion? Reference various persecutions throughout our history (including current, presentday persecution of moslems in the US). Freedom of speech? How about the arrest of peaceful protestors through the '60s and '70s? Even today? (yeah, I know, considering the amounts of protests the statistics favor someone being arrested wrongly under the circumstances)
I get sick of hearing people talk about America like it has come a long way. We smashed everything that's opposed us, and here we sit on the corpses of our past enemies and talk of peace. *cough*bullshit*cough* Worse yet, it's peace at the barrel of a gun (ref: current Iraq situation).
This is no different then what happens in south america. The people the govt doesn't like disapear.
This is an extremely perverted comparison. Again, too many conspiracy theory movies that portray our goverment as evil. I'm not even going to bother presenting reference material.
So you're going to cite the original poster as making a perverted comparison and then declare that you won't present evidence to substantiate your claim? Since you're so proud to be an American, why don't you assume the burden of guilt that the accuser is required to assume, as it is done here in America?
I'm not saying this place is a shithole, I'm just pointing out that America doesn't live up to its own standards and it prances around the rest of the world bombing out everyone else who also doesn't live up to American standards. Being #1 isn't good enough for me. Being better than whatever comes in second (not like anyone ever bothers to tell you what comes in second) isn't good enough. Being better in relationship to other people is a poor standard of comparison. Why don't we instead try to be better than we are now? Today, be better at something than you were yesterday. Today, show more compassion than you did yesterday. Today, take another step to improve your life, as you did yesterday. There's no such thing as "good enough".
Stupidity is not an excuse in my field - it should not be in theirs.
Stupidity is never an excuse. :)
last i checked Universal is still going thru with the 'we screwed up the formatting on the last two discs, send us back the dvds and we'll send you a new one' plan, right? maybe you can send it back to them with your kid's artwork on it and hope they dont notice. =)
Hey, that's not a bad idea, actually.
Consider that regardless of what Valenti says, downloading a 700MB file on any home broadband connection only takes about 20000 minutes (not counting practical time spent when you factor in users logging in and out all the time, and time spent in peoples' queues), I figure I can start the download and I'll still have about a week or so to try to clean the disc itself. If the disc comes clean and plays, great! Cancel the download (not needed anymore). If it comes clean but doesn't play, send it back. Then, in the 6-10 weeks or so while I'm waiting for a replacement I'll have a downloaded copy to watch, if I should wish to watch it. Akin to having a friend loan you a train that fits Valenti's standard tracks while your engine is in the shop.
Sorry, that standards comment of his is damn close to unbearable. Heh.
Is anyone stupid enough to believe a DVD is indestructable? My 8 year old single-handedly destroyed 2 of them this weekend alone. Does she no longer posess the liscense to view 'Shrek' because she stepped on the DVD, or can she watch the backup I made of it?
My 4-year-old wrote all over the movie side of my Back to the Future II DVD this morning, and I'm pretty pissed about it. I bought the set of the 3 movies for $50. Now I'm going to download a replacement and try to get it burned onto an svcd.
From the article:
You have to have copy prevention mandated by the government sooner or later because otherwise everybody's not playing by the same ground rules. For example, the standards of my cell phone have to be mandated by the FCC because everybody has to operate off the same standards. Also, all railroad tracks in this country are the same standardized width.
Exactly how does protecting your intellectual property compare to a standard that brings about industrialization? It's not like movie companies do anything productive for society, they just entertain us. They don't ship food the the hungry, or build houses for the homeless, or do any important scientific research. They just make goddamn movies!
They really dodge the question, which is this: If Sun releases a completely free-as-in-speech OS, can they write commercial GPL applications with Qt?
When I communicated with Trolltech about this issue, it boiled down to these things: (mind you, I was intending to write for Linux, not for any Sun OS)
1. If I were going to charge a fee for my software, it didn't matter what license I used, I had to pay for a Trolltech license. Basically, if I were going to make money from selling the software, I had to pay for a developer's license.
2. If I were going to distribute the software for free, but I was going to be paid by a company (in this case, the company that I own), then I had to buy a license.
3. If I were going to develop the software with commercial interests for Windows (or any other non-free OS) then I had to buy a license.
4. If I were going to distribute the software for free, under the GPL, for only free OSs, then I didn't have to buy a license, even if I was developing it for the company and being paid to do so.
The idea is that they want to make money from you under these conditions:
1. The software is proprietary, regardless of cost.
2. You work for a company and are paid to develop the software for internal use only.
3. You intend to distribute anything except the student/hobbyist software for Windows or Mac.
The FAQ isn't real clear about it, in this sense, but it probably clears up the issue for most free software developers. But what if you work for RedHat and you're a KDE hacker? Does RedHat own a license for you? Or are you allowed to do that?
Bottom line is, Qt isn't free, no matter how many times they give it to KDE developers for free with GPL attached to it. It's still not free.
Well, I found something that talks about making Linux more compatible with Solaris, but it doesn't mention Sun wanting to phase out Solaris in favor of Linux. Maybe I'm confusing this article with one I read where IBM really does intend to replace AIX with Linux instead.
Read about it here