Agreed, no programming language is for everyone, but it's better that students get something marketable from their thousands than simply a foundation, which someone who's serious about programming should enter into their studies with anyway. Again, preconceptions, but if you're going to college with no programming foundation as a CS major, then you're probably either 1. looking to cash in on an employment trend, or 2. Not aware of what kind of thinking is necessary in computer programming, just always thought that once you graduated you'd become one. Either way, your work is cut out for you if you want to make it through a comp sci program at this stage, and even if you make it through, you won't have a very strong background compared to someone who programmed before even going to college. Now, some would argue that this means less bad habits to break... perhaps, but it also means a lack of programming experience solving problems with your chosen language freestyle. More learning can come from solving a problem with no specific instructions as to the "right" way to do things, just allowing someone to think outside the box, as has become a popular saying lately. Computer science is a misnomer -- programming is more of an art form than a science, and there's almost always more than one way to get the job done. When someone starts talking about there being a "best" way, then they often start thinking that all the problems to be solved have already been solved the best way possible, and they got that best way handed to them on a silver platter by their instructor. If programming worked that way, we'd all be out of work.:) As you said, though, different strokes for different folks.:)
Hmmm.... someone from wvu.edu liking Ada... Perhaps that's because Ada is the only thing they will teach you there for the first two years? Make no mistake -- the ada-loving profs at WVU are only touting Ada because of the close ties they have with NASA (Heck, is Mundy still there? She works for NASA, even!), and many governmental organizations still use Ada.
Not all students plan on working for the government for a living after they get out of college -- give me a CS program that teaches marketable skills like Perl/CGI programming, C, PHP, Java, etc over one that spends half the time making sure people understand the semantics of a language that doesn't get nearly so much use as it used to any day.
Or, better yet, give me a person who has the motivation to be a programmer from little up, before being bitten with the "computer science will make you rich" bug. The people who actually can *think* like a computer. We may not be socially adept, but we can learn any language in a period of months, not years. There are obviously exceptions to this rule, but many of the best programmers out there could program the pants off a college grad before they ever entered college, and if they get a degree, it's just because they want to have that piece of paper saying they know what they already know they know. (follow that?:) ) The degree is no more important to them than a certificate is to an MCSE -- something they paid too much for but needed to put on their resume.
Pardon my rant, it's just that I get fed up with these guys who haven't even finished college yet acting like they know what it's like to work in the real world. I feel sorry for them in some ways, as when they graduate many of them leave with the attitude of "I know how to do everything by the book," then they get a manager who doesn't care how the book says it should be done, just wants it to work, NOW, and they just fall apart.
Just my (probably gonna get moderated down) 2 cents.:)
Actually, I'm registered too. I just didn't want people to think I was the one who posted the initial response, which did go over the lines of good taste, though I saw his point. So I clicked the "post anonymously" checkbox, lest people moderate me down simply because I can see where the guy was coming from. Anyway, there surely had to be something a little less inflammatory used as an example, given enough thought. Anyway, this is offtopic, I know, just didn't want to appear as though I wasn't participating in the forums like a good netizen. That was my first time posting anonymously.:)
Excellent post, got me to thinking about my high-school days. I played video games from the time I was 5 years old, starting with one of those all-in-one pong setups you could pick up at Sears or Radio Shack, moving on to Atari, Nintendo, etc, etc.
Yet, for all the supposedly violent video game content I processed as a youngster, my gaming friends and I were always the TARGET of agression... We weren't particularly interested in sports, for instance, nor were we impressed by physical muscle... I got into the gifted program (quit it when I went to Jr. High -- Now THAT stuff can mess with your mind) and generally became branded a geek at an early age.... I had a lot of pent-up rage at the jocks and whatnot, but I never attacked anyone, I saved it for my time spent gaming, when I "decompressed," as I like to put it.... I was subject to threats and the like all the time however, from the "normal" kids. This continued all the way through high-school. The ones who were leading the healthy lives, body-building, playing football, etc.... these are the violent ones.... Ever see a high-school football player who's really juiced up after a game? They take that stuff off the field with them, into their social life, use that energy to beat down the little guy, a lot of times. Used to make me sick.
My story isn't uncommon, as was evidenced by the strong backlash on/. when the Columbine story hit the wire. Perhaps people should start looking at the way many computer geeks/gamers get treated by their peers as a possible catalyst for these acts, and perhaps at the way parents are raising their kids nowadays, as opposed to taking the easy way out and blaming the "different" kids for society's ills. The media is just feeding a witch hunt, I think.
I apologize for the rambling, but this post just struck a chord with me I guess.
If these things let you block out certain commercials, the first ones to go would be the ones that try like heck to come off quirky/artsy, but just end up being annoying. Farewell GAP, Target, and Old Navy ads, and good riddance!
It's one day in a year, people. Let the guys have some fun. Personally, I appreciate it when I see people in public positions act like REAL PEOPLE. A few weeks ago, for instance,. the local newscasters on the ABC affiliate in my area changed the way they report news, ever so slightly, in that they stopped reading straight from the teleprompter and started acting REAL, for once. I actually enjoy watching the news now. Anyone who gets all worked up about a little prank here and there (regardless of whether YOU think it was funny or not) should be taken outside and smacked around a little.
Keep on "keeping it real," Slashdot. I, and many others like me I'm sure, will keep reading until Slashdot becomes all business, quoting press releases instead of providing personal takes on the news. It's nice to see a group of people that hasn't sold out like that yet.
Hi, Just thought you may like to know that I have a dual P3-500 setup and the SBLive works just fine... Grab the source from opensource.creative.com and compile the driver yourself. Works like a charm!:)
Not that this post shouldn't have been moderated down, but how on earth can post number one be marked "redundant?" Wouldn't the other posts saying the same be the redundant ones, and not the first? Ah well...
I always ignore anything that comes out of the so-called "experts'" mouths... Most reviewers see far too many movies, and therefore are too critical in their evaluations.... LOVED "The Matrix" as well. Actually, the guys at work all call me Neo (couldn't use the nick here, already taken:( ). I got so into the movie (That and I got imported shades from Germany to match Neo's, and a custom-made trenchcoat, too:) )...
Mountain View, CA., January 5, 2000 - LinuxOne, Inc., the One Stop for LinuxTM, announced today that its CEO, Wun C. Chiou, sold the first copy of LinuxOne OS today, and signed its latest in a series of distribution contracts. The purchaser, 10-year-old William "Billy" Foster, made the purchase at 7:02 PM last night, using his parents' credit card.
"Billy," a student at Rolling Hills Elementary School, plans to burn at least 100 copies and trade them for Twinkies at lunch time. "This young entrepreneur reminds me of myself at his age, though I preferred Ho-Hos myself," states Wun C. Chiou. "Billy" added: "I was really mad at my mommy and daddy last night, so I swiped their credit card and bought something. I didn't want to get in trouble when it arrived, so I chose to order LinuxOne OS, knowing it would probably never be shipped to me. IMagine my surprise when I became part of the LinuxOne family of distributors!"
The LinuxOne Rolling Hills Elementary office is staffed by 1 employee, consisting of a General Manager. More salespersons will be hired in the next 10 days. The purpose of the office is to:
Attempt to earn additonal respect for a virtually non-existent entity in the Linux market translate/localize LinuxOne products into elementary school lingo circulate a newsletter for the under-12-yr-old members of the Open Source Community Dupe would-be Linux investors into investing in a company that will take the money and run at the first chance it gets (Oops, did we say that?)
Dr. Wun C. Chiou, Sr., President of LinuxOne, Inc., stated, "We are very excited about our expansion into Rolling Hills Elementary. This represents a very significant step for our Company and, once again, demonstrates our commitment to the open-source community in schools the world over. The children are our future, and with Billy's help, they'll be taking LinuxOne OS as their OS of choice. This ensures LinuxOne OS's future dominance in the Linux market, which it has yet to penetrate."
For more information, contact:
LinuxOne Worldwide Headquarters 201 San Antonio Circle, C250 Mountain View, CA 94040 Phone: (650) 948-6201 Fax: (650) 948-2932 Email: robert@linuxone.net URL: http://www.linuxone.net/
Mr. William Foster, General Manager LinuxOne - Rolling Hills Elementary 168 Happy Acres Dr. Anywhere, USA Phone: 555-2110 Fax: 555-2501-1854 Email: billy@linuxone.net URL: http://www.geocities.com/This/IsAH OAX/index.html
Certain information included in this communication (as well as information included in oral statements or other written statements made or to be made by the Company) contains statements that are patently false. Such as statements relating to the future anticipated direction of the Internet industry, plans for future expansion, various business development activities, planned capital expenditures, future funding resources, anticipated sales growth and stagnation in the Twinkie market of schools worldwide. These forward statements are subject to a number of known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual operations or results to be totally opposite of everything we represent. The NASD has not reviewed and does not accept responsibility for the adequacy or accuracy of this news release.
...On this one, I can't agree with him. Come on, good humor is an art form, and just like you wouldn't hear one artist (publicly) criticizing another's work, if he was a professional, you shouldn't hear this sort of crap.
I have worked two sales jobs, tech support, and systems administration at a small ISP that I set up from scratch, and currently, at a medium-sized ISP that hired me back (used to do tech support there). This has led me to deal with people on many levels, and it isn't really the cluelessness of the people that is funny. It is the NATURE of people that is funny, and that is what the real root of the joke is in User Friendly, or any other site that pokes fun of the tech's situation. Help Desk Funnies come to mind.
I'd also like to point out that the strip "Help Desk" linked to by Kurtz as an example of what's really funny is not above exploiting this type of humor as well. See this link for an example.
I was really disappointed to see an artist so publicly berating another, arguably more successful (Kurtz has a comic book deal, but Illiad has a book published by O'Reilly!) artist like this. Perhaps Scott should send e-mail to all the nice people in the biz who seem to disagree with him.
I couldn't have said it better myself. When I saw this earlier in the day I didn't have time to read the entire news item, but I cringed, waiting for the bashing to begin. Nice to see this post, and nicer to see it actually get moderated UP!:)
This is something I have felt for a long time. Those who try to take God out of the picture by looking for evidence of a big bang, or microevolution, or whatever, are placing just as much faith in the non-existence of God as those "religious right" (one wonders how this became considered a derogatory term) place in the assumption that God does exist.
He's entitled to his own opinion just as you are. Personally, I agree that people should make their own choices about what they view, or, if too young, their parents should do so for them, as these kids' mom did. However, no amount of free-thinking philosphy in the world will make me believe that what's morally right is subjective, only that we have the right to make our own choices regarding which morals we will uphold and which we won't. Your mockery of this person's choices in referring to him as an xtian reactionary implies you would deprive him of his right to an opinion if you had the power to do so.
Re:Some thoughts on Be's viability
on
Be Inc. IPO-bound
·
· Score: 1
With all due respect, while the above poster may have made a slightly overzealous statement about supporting any hardware, your reply is nothing short of FUD, and it doesn't appear you've actually tried the OS.
The wonderful thing about Be is that they are constantly under-promising, while over-delivering. For example, in R3 and R3.1, the main supported soundcard was the Creative Labs Soundblaster AWE64, and the AWE32 wasn't listed as working, because the driver didn't work with all of the board revisions of the AWE32. Nonetheless, many AWE32 and even SB16 users were completely surprised when they booted Be and their sound "just worked."
I demoed BeOS for a few of my coworkers not long ago and installed it on both an old K6-233 (with a crappy serial mouse made by a company named Kensiko) and a slightly newer K6-2 350. On both machines, neither of which had been designed to be BeOS compatible, nor was their hardware listed (verbatim) on the compatibility list, everything from sound, to network cards, to the SCSI card in the 350 machine, just worked. (I should mention that during the demo almost everyone in the building stopped by and said how cool BeOS looked, and they wanted to give it a try on their own machine)
Also, while many of their current users are alternative OS people, and hence more likely to buy alternative chipsets (which it works JUST FINE with, BTW) keep in mind that they are doing their best to target the OS at the media people. Most people involved in working with media, be it sound, 2 graphics, or 3d design, are some of the only people that can honestly say they need the fastest systems on the market to make themselves more productive (gamers notwithstanding:) ), and are more likely to have the higher performing CPUs like the Pentiums as opposed to the AMD stuff... (Admittedly, this will most likely change with the K7 coming soon!) It sounds as though you're miffed that your hardware isn't listed and haven't given Be a go because of this. I recommend you look into getting one of their demo CDs and see if it doesn't work with your system. You may be pleasantly surprised.
Regardless, please refrain from posting FUD like the content of the first paragraph of your post.
Slashdot Mirror
Agreed, no programming language is for everyone, but it's better that students get something marketable from their thousands than simply a foundation, which someone who's serious about programming should enter into their studies with anyway. Again, preconceptions, but if you're going to college with no programming foundation as a CS major, then you're probably either 1. looking to cash in on an employment trend, or 2. Not aware of what kind of thinking is necessary in computer programming, just always thought that once you graduated you'd become one. Either way, your work is cut out for you if you want to make it through a comp sci program at this stage, and even if you make it through, you won't have a very strong background compared to someone who programmed before even going to college. Now, some would argue that this means less bad habits to break... perhaps, but it also means a lack of programming experience solving problems with your chosen language freestyle. More learning can come from solving a problem with no specific instructions as to the "right" way to do things, just allowing someone to think outside the box, as has become a popular saying lately. Computer science is a misnomer -- programming is more of an art form than a science, and there's almost always more than one way to get the job done. When someone starts talking about there being a "best" way, then they often start thinking that all the problems to be solved have already been solved the best way possible, and they got that best way handed to them on a silver platter by their instructor. If programming worked that way, we'd all be out of work. :) As you said, though, different strokes for different folks. :)
Not all students plan on working for the government for a living after they get out of college -- give me a CS program that teaches marketable skills like Perl/CGI programming, C, PHP, Java, etc over one that spends half the time making sure people understand the semantics of a language that doesn't get nearly so much use as it used to any day.
Or, better yet, give me a person who has the motivation to be a programmer from little up, before being bitten with the "computer science will make you rich" bug. The people who actually can *think* like a computer. We may not be socially adept, but we can learn any language in a period of months, not years. There are obviously exceptions to this rule, but many of the best programmers out there could program the pants off a college grad before they ever entered college, and if they get a degree, it's just because they want to have that piece of paper saying they know what they already know they know. (follow that? :) ) The degree is no more important to them than a certificate is to an MCSE -- something they paid too much for but needed to put on their resume.
Pardon my rant, it's just that I get fed up with these guys who haven't even finished college yet acting like they know what it's like to work in the real world. I feel sorry for them in some ways, as when they graduate many of them leave with the attitude of "I know how to do everything by the book," then they get a manager who doesn't care how the book says it should be done, just wants it to work, NOW, and they just fall apart.
Just my (probably gonna get moderated down) 2 cents. :)
Actually, I'm registered too. I just didn't want people to think I was the one who posted the initial response, which did go over the lines of good taste, though I saw his point. So I clicked the "post anonymously" checkbox, lest people moderate me down simply because I can see where the guy was coming from. Anyway, there surely had to be something a little less inflammatory used as an example, given enough thought. Anyway, this is offtopic, I know, just didn't want to appear as though I wasn't participating in the forums like a good netizen. That was my first time posting anonymously. :)
---
http://neomail.sourceforge.net
Very well spoken... Wish I was one of the lucky few to be able to moderate this up today!
Excellent post, got me to thinking about my high-school days. I played video games from the time I was 5 years old, starting with one of those all-in-one pong setups you could pick up at Sears or Radio Shack, moving on to Atari, Nintendo, etc, etc.
/. when the Columbine story hit the wire. Perhaps people should start looking at the way many computer geeks/gamers get treated by their peers as a possible catalyst for these acts, and perhaps at the way parents are raising their kids nowadays, as opposed to taking the easy way out and blaming the "different" kids for society's ills. The media is just feeding a witch hunt, I think.
Yet, for all the supposedly violent video game content I processed as a youngster, my gaming friends and I were always the TARGET of agression... We weren't particularly interested in sports, for instance, nor were we impressed by physical muscle... I got into the gifted program (quit it when I went to Jr. High -- Now THAT stuff can mess with your mind) and generally became branded a geek at an early age.... I had a lot of pent-up rage at the jocks and whatnot, but I never attacked anyone, I saved it for my time spent gaming, when I "decompressed," as I like to put it.... I was subject to threats and the like all the time however, from the "normal" kids. This continued all the way through high-school. The ones who were leading the healthy lives, body-building, playing football, etc.... these are the violent ones.... Ever see a high-school football player who's really juiced up after a game? They take that stuff off the field with them, into their social life, use that energy to beat down the little guy, a lot of times. Used to make me sick.
My story isn't uncommon, as was evidenced by the strong backlash on
I apologize for the rambling, but this post just struck a chord with me I guess.
...and I'll kill anyone who says otherwise! :)
If these things let you block out certain commercials, the first ones to go would be the ones that try like heck to come off quirky/artsy, but just end up being annoying. Farewell GAP, Target, and Old Navy ads, and good riddance!
It's one day in a year, people. Let the guys have some fun. Personally, I appreciate it when I see people in public positions act like REAL PEOPLE. A few weeks ago, for instance,. the local newscasters on the ABC affiliate in my area changed the way they report news, ever so slightly, in that they stopped reading straight from the teleprompter and started acting REAL, for once. I actually enjoy watching the news now. Anyone who gets all worked up about a little prank here and there (regardless of whether YOU think it was funny or not) should be taken outside and smacked around a little.
Keep on "keeping it real," Slashdot. I, and many others like me I'm sure, will keep reading until Slashdot becomes all business, quoting press releases instead of providing personal takes on the news. It's nice to see a group of people that hasn't sold out like that yet.
Hi, :)
Just thought you may like to know that I have a dual P3-500 setup and the SBLive works just fine... Grab the source from opensource.creative.com and compile the driver yourself. Works like a charm!
Not that this post shouldn't have been moderated down, but how on earth can post number one be marked "redundant?" Wouldn't the other posts saying the same be the redundant ones, and not the first? Ah well...
*sigh* Takes all kinds, I guess... Right back at you.
I always ignore anything that comes out of the so-called "experts'" mouths... Most reviewers see far too many movies, and therefore are too critical in their evaluations.... LOVED "The Matrix" as well. Actually, the guys at work all call me Neo (couldn't use the nick here, already taken :( ). I got so into the movie (That and I got imported shades from Germany to match Neo's, and a custom-made trenchcoat, too :) )...
Mountain View, CA., January 5, 2000 - LinuxOne, Inc., the One Stop for LinuxTM, announced today that its CEO, Wun C. Chiou, sold the first copy of LinuxOne OS today, and signed its latest in a series of distribution contracts. The purchaser, 10-year-old William "Billy" Foster, made the purchase at 7:02 PM last night, using his parents' credit card.
:)
"Billy," a student at Rolling Hills Elementary School, plans to burn at least 100 copies and trade them for Twinkies at lunch time. "This young entrepreneur reminds me of myself at his age, though I preferred Ho-Hos myself," states Wun C. Chiou. "Billy" added: "I was really mad at my mommy and daddy last night, so I swiped their credit card and bought something. I didn't want to get in trouble when it arrived, so I chose to order LinuxOne OS, knowing it would probably never be shipped to me. IMagine my surprise when I became part of the LinuxOne family of distributors!"
The LinuxOne Rolling Hills Elementary office is staffed by 1 employee, consisting of a General Manager. More salespersons will be hired in the next 10 days. The purpose of the office is to:
Attempt to earn additonal respect for a virtually non-existent entity in the Linux market
translate/localize LinuxOne products into elementary school lingo
circulate a newsletter for the under-12-yr-old members of the Open Source Community
Dupe would-be Linux investors into investing in a company that will take the money and run at the first chance it gets (Oops, did we say that?)
Dr. Wun C. Chiou, Sr., President of LinuxOne, Inc., stated, "We are very excited about our expansion into Rolling Hills Elementary. This represents a very significant step for our Company and, once again, demonstrates our commitment to the open-source community in schools the world over. The children are our future, and with Billy's help, they'll be taking LinuxOne OS as their OS of choice. This ensures LinuxOne OS's future dominance in the Linux market, which it has yet to penetrate."
For more information, contact:
LinuxOne Worldwide Headquarters
201 San Antonio Circle, C250
Mountain View, CA 94040
Phone: (650) 948-6201
Fax: (650) 948-2932
Email: robert@linuxone.net
URL: http://www.linuxone.net/
Mr. William Foster, General Manager
LinuxOne - Rolling Hills Elementary
168 Happy Acres Dr.
Anywhere, USA
Phone: 555-2110
Fax: 555-2501-1854
Email: billy@linuxone.net
URL: http://www.geocities.com/This/IsAH OAX/index.html
Certain information included in this communication (as well as information included in oral statements or other written statements made or to be made by the Company) contains statements that are patently false. Such as statements relating to the future anticipated direction of the Internet industry, plans for future expansion, various business development activities, planned capital expenditures, future funding resources, anticipated sales growth and stagnation in the Twinkie market of schools worldwide. These forward statements are subject to a number of known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual operations or results to be totally opposite of everything we represent. The NASD has not reviewed and does not accept responsibility for the adequacy or accuracy of this news release.
...On this one, I can't agree with him. Come on, good humor is an art form, and just like you wouldn't hear one artist (publicly) criticizing another's work, if he was a professional, you shouldn't hear this sort of crap.
I have worked two sales jobs, tech support, and systems administration at a small ISP that I set up from scratch, and currently, at a medium-sized ISP that hired me back (used to do tech support there). This has led me to deal with people on many levels, and it isn't really the cluelessness of the people that is funny. It is the NATURE of people that is funny, and that is what the real root of the joke is in User Friendly, or any other site that pokes fun of the tech's situation. Help Desk Funnies come to mind.
I'd also like to point out that the strip "Help Desk" linked to by Kurtz as an example of what's really funny is not above exploiting this type of humor as well. See this link for an example.
I was really disappointed to see an artist so publicly berating another, arguably more successful (Kurtz has a comic book deal, but Illiad has a book published by O'Reilly!) artist like this. Perhaps Scott should send e-mail to all the nice people in the biz who seem to disagree with him.
I couldn't have said it better myself. When I saw this earlier in the day I didn't have time to read the entire news item, but I cringed, waiting for the bashing to begin. Nice to see this post, and nicer to see it actually get moderated UP! :)
I'm aware of this, was simply making a generalization about those that I have met.
This is something I have felt for a long time. Those who try to take God out of the picture by looking for evidence of a big bang, or microevolution, or whatever, are placing just as much faith in the non-existence of God as those "religious right" (one wonders how this became considered a derogatory term) place in the assumption that God does exist.
He's entitled to his own opinion just as you are. Personally, I agree that people should make their own choices about what they view, or, if too young, their parents should do so for them, as these kids' mom did. However, no amount of free-thinking philosphy in the world will make me believe that what's morally right is subjective, only that we have the right to make our own choices regarding which morals we will uphold and which we won't. Your mockery of this person's choices in referring to him as an xtian reactionary implies you would deprive him of his right to an opinion if you had the power to do so.
With all due respect, while the above poster may have made a slightly overzealous statement about supporting any hardware, your reply is nothing short of FUD, and it doesn't appear you've actually tried the OS.
:) ), and are more likely to have the higher performing CPUs like the Pentiums as opposed to the AMD stuff... (Admittedly, this will most likely change with the K7 coming soon!) It sounds as though you're miffed that your hardware isn't listed and haven't given Be a go because of this. I recommend you look into getting one of their demo CDs and see if it doesn't work with your system. You may be pleasantly surprised.
The wonderful thing about Be is that they are constantly under-promising, while over-delivering. For example, in R3 and R3.1, the main supported soundcard was the Creative Labs Soundblaster AWE64, and the AWE32 wasn't listed as working, because the driver didn't work with all of the board revisions of the AWE32. Nonetheless, many AWE32 and even SB16 users were completely surprised when they booted Be and their sound "just worked."
I demoed BeOS for a few of my coworkers not long ago and installed it on both an old K6-233 (with a crappy serial mouse made by a company named Kensiko) and a slightly newer K6-2 350. On both machines, neither of which had been designed to be BeOS compatible, nor was their hardware listed (verbatim) on the compatibility list, everything from sound, to network cards, to the SCSI card in the 350 machine, just worked. (I should mention that during the demo almost everyone in the building stopped by and said how cool BeOS looked, and they wanted to give it a try on their own machine)
Also, while many of their current users are alternative OS people, and hence more likely to buy alternative chipsets (which it works JUST FINE with, BTW) keep in mind that they are doing their best to target the OS at the media people. Most people involved in working with media, be it sound, 2 graphics, or 3d design, are some of the only people that can honestly say they need the fastest systems on the market to make themselves more productive (gamers notwithstanding
Regardless, please refrain from posting FUD like the content of the first paragraph of your post.
Better yet, "alias ls='ls --color=auto'"... this avoids those crazy ESC sequences showing up under less. :)