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Be Inc. IPO-bound
Dr. Tom was the first to send us
the Be Inc. IPO announcement from E-Trade. Very cool OS, and I hope the sale goes well. E-Trade will be accepting apps for distribution to members, and also notes that while the registration statement has been filed, it's not been accepted by the SEC. Check out the Yahoo Biz story for more details.
Most people (even in the geek community) dont know how large the Be userbase actually is, mainly becuase we keep fairly quiet (too busy coding and porting apps to our favorite OS). What will really make it grow is the support by hundreds of hardware and software companies willing to write drivers and programs. Keep in mind, these are not just small no-names. Creative Labs, Intel, SGI, IBM, Adaptec, Plextor, Sony, Asus, Dell, and tons more have shown strong support for the multimedia capabilites of the BeOS. Dont be suprised if all-of-a-sudden a lot more BeOS users pop up than anyone realised.
Go Be!
No, you shut up, and go home with your sack full of tulip bulbs.
Microsoft is alreay Vulnerable.. what do you think "Uranus".. Oops! I mean "Neptune" is going to become the next Winblows 2000?
..
they are already planning to make an new version of os that will ditch the old dos platform and go 100 percent windows platform.
oh they also mentioned it's going to be their new "media os"
Do you really think Microsoft can add BeOS' advantages to NT without breaking it? Microsoft is continually making strides to improve DirectX performance. However, there are early reports that future versions of NT's DirectX layer will break current and near-future DX-based games. (Here's the ZDNet article) What do you think would happen if MS added a low-latency timer? They'd probably have to rip the entire OS apart.
How do you know they aren't doing anything with settops? Be is fairly well behaved when it comes to vapourware, but that doesn't mean they don't have settops in development. Besides, BeOS' small, tight, fast kernel would scale wonderfully to a settop.
Failed to innovate? (There's that "I" word again.) Granted, Be hasn't "integrated" NetPositive or made their UI widgets skinable, but BeOS' API is absoultely brilliant. It has a logical object model, complements the architecture wonderfully, and is simple enough for an "idiot Visual Basic" programmer like myself to understand. Besides, the real innovation and the real killer apps will come from competition in the application space, not from one company building things into its operating system.
It's hard to "screw away" advantages that are so intrinsic to the OS. Any well-written app for any platform will gain from that platform's advantages.
You're right about advocacy, though. BeOS attracts many Mac and Amiga partisans by its very nature, so it's easy to envision Team OS/2 calibre religious fervor. Just like any other OS, BeOS advocates must build up BeOS, not tear down [Windows | Mac | Linux | etc].
There's still plenty of work for Be to do (accelerated OpenGL, more hardware support, Java, and SBLive drivers (HINT, HINT), just off the top of my head), but this IPO may give them the infusion of cash they need to get those things done, and reach the critical mass Linux has.
Keith Russell
OS != Religion
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Dude! You haven't tried beos on your system right? I am running Beos on my Amd k6-2 450 on my system. did you try out the beos demo yet?
No, you shut up, and go home with your sack full of tulip bulbs.
spoken like a true loser.
I don't know about graphical applications - I think there is an X-server available, but I haven't tried it.
But for text-mode applications, as far as I know the port isn't hard. I believe there is now mySQL for BeOS, for instance.
D
----
"There aren't many things that Be can do that Windows NT can't, and the few things that be does lead in (mainly pseudo real-time features), Microsoft could add to Windows."
What are you talking about? Microsoft will NEVER be able to reduce Windows NT's interrupt latency from ~50 to 3 milliseconds.
Wrong. "News for Nerds, Stuff that matters." I don't see any reference to Linux in there; do you? There is more to life and technology than Linux. The sooner you realize that, the better.
I've tried Linux a few time in the last eight years (starting with an SLS distrobution based on a 0.9x kernel) and ending with RedHat 5.2. I never got it working to my satisfaction because of all the time I needed to spend futzing around under the hood (time I'd rather spend USING apps).
Be was up and running in just a few minutes (release 3, 3.1, 4 and 4.5) and the _ONLY_ text file I had to fart with was the hosts file.
(Having to edit a TEXT file to tell your WM what options to put on the on-screen menu, who thought that up?)
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I'm not so sure about that. They support the vast majority of Adaptec products and all Symbios chipsets. That alone covers the bulk of SCSI users.
* Consumer 2D Hardware - Be needs video drivers, badly.
There aren't many modern cards left that aren't supported in BeOS.
* Multiuser - Or even multiple user profiles!
It would be nice, but certainly not a priority for a media OS. The architecture is in place and the filesystem already respects permissions. There's just no multi-user layer on top of that yet.
* Remote administration
I telnet into my BeOS machine from anywhere on the planet and adminster the heck out of it. A telnet server is built in and you've got the full bash shell. What other kinds of remote administration are you looking for?
I apologise for my "run well on any hardware" statement. What I meant was that it would run well on a wide range of system speeds and capabilities, which is true. What's not true, of course, is that it will run with any motherboard chipset or video card. I agree that this should be improved, but we should have some sympathy for Be as a small company that can't do everything at once.
But I will note that BeOS supports my AMD K6/300 on my IBM Aptiva just fine. This is a more or less random "open box" system I bought at Best Buy for $ 559.
The main reason co-existing is so important is that someone will say "Okay, I'm interested in doing cool media stuff, but at the end of the day I need to use Microsoft Office." Instead of antagonizing that guy by saying that you have to give up Office, JLG says that you can keep Office, but if you want to do cool digital media, we have the right way forward.
I think BeOS appeals to the more pragmatic side of us: Want to run cool software that doesn't crash and burn all the time? Check out Be.
D
----
Why does your BeOS installation just sit there looking bland and doing nothing useful? What is it you want to do that you can't do on BeOS? I'm not saying there aren't things you can't do in BeOS today, but there are thousands of us using BeOS as a ful-time OS. I don't boot into Windows or Linux for much these days...
With Be you pay $69 (or lower at some places) for the OS. You then get EVERY dot release, fully installable, on a CD, in the mail, without messing with it... for free. Then, when they come out with a new major release, you can get that for $25 with the above qualifications. Basically, Be's "bug fix" releases are free, you only pay for big new stuff.
Well, if you tried to install BeOS on a 486, it's pretty clear you didn't even glance at the hardware compatibility pages at be.com. BeOS has never and will probably never run 486.
My take on it is that they are afraid. Out of (virtually) nowhere (well, it was gestating on PowerPC hardware but what geek cares about Macs?) comes along an OS that has so many of the things that Linux lacks and is gaining favorable press.
I *think* (and I could be wrong) that they are afraid that Be will steal Linux's thunder and Linux will be an also0ran to yet ANOTHER comercial OS.
Of course it could also be the strong neo-communist "if it ain't free it's crap" ethos in the Linux community.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Posted by OGL:
It looks bland because I can't change the window manager, and it does nothing useful because there's no point in using it. Basically I scowered the web, and all I could find in terms of useful BeOS software was the web browser, an irc client, and an mp3 player. There aren't any good games as there are in win98, and it doesn't have the programming tools which Linux makes available (including but not limited to the implicit support I get from Linux being an open-source OS). Maybe I could use BeOS as a full-time OS if I was happy playing tetris, and all I needed to do was surf the web and maybe mix audio samples. But in reality I'm a skilled technical user, and I do have other plans for using my computer. Feel free to correct me if you feel I'm off-base.
-W.W.
How exactly are you measuring the BeOS userbase?
I'd rather not rely on the numbers you pull out
of your ass...
BeOS is a very young OS. (And don't anyone tell
me it has been around since 1991, because *IT* hasn't... the company has, not the OS). x86
is the most popular platform available, and it's
only been out for x86 for about a year and a half
now (R3).
For chrissakes, they haven't even put the OS out
on store shelves yet! You can't compare it to any
other OS's in that league yet, like Windows, Linux, Mac, etc. Wait until they get more money
for distribution, advertisement, and of course,
engineers!
You ain't seen nothing yet.
-WW
P.S. I bet you didn't know that a large portion
of the EBAY stock holders are the loyal customers
and fans of EBAY. EBAY shot through the roof for
that very reason. BEOS will do the same. I'm going
to be putting my money where my mouth is, too.
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
I haven't read one internet stock prospectus
yet that looks any good -- and they all go through
the roof. They have to list all the possible RISKS
in the prospectus, so they usually aren't a very
glowing report on the company's chances.
However, I'd never feel more comfortable betting
my money in Vegas -- the stock market has much
better odds if you know what you're doing.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
After no luck on my main 2 machines (the k6-2/350 and the celery333a) I tried it on my 2 old machines. Still without a keyboard, it's about as useful as an electric fish sander. Be's tech support is really helpful too: "We don't know what's wrong, try another machine". NOT!!!!! 3 strikes and you're out buddy. Even way back when Linux was still at kernel version 0.99something it was USEABLE!
BeOS is a SCAM. They stole my money and sent me a piece of crap.
Well.. wait little longer. Electronic Arts is planning to Port the games in Beos Platforms.. Simcity 3000 and etc in beos..Yes! Beos!
:)
BeOS is good, granted, I first started using it when R3 came out, and it wasn't bad, R4 improved, and R4.5 is great, but again, it lacks hardware and software interopolity, just like any other operating system...Will it be a hit with consumers? I think so, possibly, due to the fact of the linux trend and people divulging away from MS products...granted the majority of computer users still use MS Products, I think within then next 4-5 years BeOS will really take off..
Should be a picture of a tulip. ;-)
I agree!
.. hahahah..
:)
that Uranus.. or netptune is totally a joke..
is microsoft abondoning their Windows $2000 to make their Uranus... excuse me.. Neptune for the next gen os? Ohmygod.. they are actually planning to abondon their "dos Platform".. hehe
and their calling their "neptune" project as "media os"
Microsoft.. be afraid.. be very afraid...
Umax also owns share of beos inc..
so I won't be surprised if Umax start to make drivers for all of their products compatiable when beos version 5.0 or higher become available..
You little boys call yourselves Geeks? Come on.
I use Linux as my web server/e-mail host/Internet presence. That's what Linux is good for. If you want Unix at home, there ya go.
BeOS is a consumer-ready, personal computer OS. It is faster than Linux at anything graphics and media-intensive, and is quite capable.
Note that I also have Win98 installed on my x86 BeOS Pentium III PC and have 2 blue & white G3's and an iMac to boot (pun intended). Let's just say that in the time it takes any of my other machines to boot, BeOS can boot approximately 14 times (I tested it out).
Not to mention that (like Linux), BeOS rarely ever crashes.
Linux is not going to be a consumer-ready OS any time soon. Unix is simply not ready for consumers -- my parents could install BeOS in a few short minutes just as I did.
And let's not go there with regards to the API! BeOS is the finest API in the land, bar none, for any kind of consumer/client-side software development. Apps with full GUI's can be built in under 100K and there's a nice POSIX interface layer which makes porting all your favorite Linux apps a breeze.
All Be needs to beat Apple is more apps (coming soon, including some from my company, Buzzlabs) and better hardware manufacturer support/bundling deals.
It *will* happen -- it's just a matter of when. BeOS is the finest operating system developed for consumers TO DATE, Linux most definitely included.
With the next major release of BeOS, y'all Linux weenies will be running for cover. The net networking system will make BeOS just as capable a server as Linux.
Let's work and play together, folks. Wake up and check it out. It's not evil like Windows, it's not arrogant and outdated and crap like Mac OS. It's the best of all worlds, Linux features included.
Steve Klingsporn
steve@buzzlabs.com
http://www.buzzlabs.com/~steve
I'm afraid it won't happen.
FreeBSD has ABI compatibility with Linux (for the most part, anyway), which means that the Linux binaries run because the syscalls are the same.
Be doesn't have anywhere near the same low level structure.
It's more comparable to getting linux emulation working on QNX or the HURD.
It still becomes a matter of syscall translation (mainly), and it's not an easy thing to do on Be, especially since the kernel exports are for the most part, hidden.
Of course, Be's DTS (developer technical support) is almost always happy to help people when it comes to things like figuring out the kernel calls, but only if you have a very good reason, and they know the time they spend helping you won't go to waste (this is just in the case of giving out and explaining things that are basically undocumented and you aren't supposed to know. They always help when it comes to supporting things they are supposed to be supporting)
seemingly because of the headway that linux is currently making against microsoft, some people have already forgotten how difficult it is to go head to head with microsoft. linux does not compete on a commercial basis, and this gives it a certain amount of invulnerability. but be is wise to place itself where it does, because it gives bosses, third-party developers and end users the justification they need. after all, no-one ever got fired for complimenting microsoft, did they?
intel are not dissimilar from microsoft in their competitive practice, and so it's important to keep them onside as well. don't worry, you'll see beos get the market position they deserve when the market is ready for it.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
I like this strategy. Instead of trying to stretch themselves by developing and marketing new products, spend the money trying to get developers on board the BeOS chuck wagon.
IIRC, BeOS has some market penetration in the digital media area, seems like Be should try and sweet talk Adobe and Avid into supporting BeOS.
Quite frankly, it's an OS that's ready for prime time--it fulfills the promise which the Mac used to have.
Umm... no. It's not ready for prime time.
Look at the list of things Be doesn't support:
* DVD Playback - the number-one reason I don't sit in BeOS all the time.
* SCSI Support - very poor, the variety of devices is very narrow.
* Consumer 3D Hardware - No TNT? No go.
* Consumer 2D Hardware - Be needs video drivers, badly.
* Multiuser - Or even multiple user profiles!
* Remote administration
Don't get me wrong, I like using the BeOS. It's a well-crafted piece of closedware, with a clean interface, an absurdly straightforward installation procedure, a nice API, fantastic multiprocessor support, and lots of potential. But those things don't make it ready for prime time. A boatload of drivers are still needed before Be has anything other than a really, really cool toy to offer.
I admit this is getting better as we speak, but it's blatantly incorrect to state that BeOS is ready for prime time. It only runs usably on less than one out of three machines, and even then, there are some things missing here and there.
I'd write some drivers myself, instead of just bitching about it, but I know fsck-all about good driver coding, and I'd be sure to do more harm than good. And of course, like everyone else, I can fall back on the "no time" excuse, too!
check out the old Be web site Its still available and things like BeWare are still being updated. The worst thing about BeOS is all the terrible puns :P
You would have all missed the boat on Amazon, EBay, Yahoo, Excite, etc.
/. bellyachers bitch about valuations. If you can't play with the big boys, shut the %^%^ up and go home with your jar of pennies.
Quit thinking like your grandfather!
The new rules are based on hype and hype alone. Deal with it and you can get rich. Wait for profits and you'll miss the boat and be just another chump sitting at the bar talking about "what coulda been". I'm so sick of listening to the
I imagine you flunked out of "Ethics" in High School.
Oh, you didn't even take the class? It wasn't offered?
I wonder how a dual or quad PIII(or K7 someday) would compare, pricewise, to the Alpha? You are correct in that a Alpha version would be great but I think it is too high up the scale right now when a dual Celeron is very cheap and a Quad Xeon is available too. It is the SMP capabilities in BeOS that allow this. Of course dual/quad Alphas might be quicker then a O2, but that is a very highend target that is too high and small for Be to shot for now. Good ideas but the comodity x86 market is a good place for Be now. IMHO
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
BeOS is NOT ready for prime time.
I tried installing 4.5 on four different machines (486DX4/100, P133, Celeron333a, and a K6-2/350 )and could get no keyboard response on any of them. All of the motherboards have latest bios available for them. They all have successfully ran DOS, Windows 95, NT3.51 & 4.0, Linux, Solaris x86 and FreeBSD just fine. I have given up on BeOS and would really like to get my money back since I believe the product is a faulty. Any O/S that cannot even get the freakin' keyboard driver right for a common 101-key PS/2 keyboard is exceptionally lame.
The 486 box has a P-83 overdrive chip in it, not the 486dx4/100. It's probably a miracle that it could boot from the floppy and see the CDROM drive at all in that box. Still this funny business about not liking PS/2 keyboard with serial mouse is a load of crap. That's a very popular combination.
"I think they're stepping into the market to make
a quick buck and thats the bottom line."
I think you don't know what you're talking about,
and that's the bottom line.
They will make 50-60 million on this IPO,
regardless of how high it skyrockets, or how low
it falls on the first day of trading...
That 50 million will be spent pretty quickly on
advertisements, distribution channels, engineers,
etc.
And just how exactly do you think a public company
can make a "quick buck"? It's not like Gassee can
just split up the 50 million with the rest of his
employees -- a public company is answerable to
its shareholders.
In other words, a flawed argument on your part.
"I bought the BeOS 4 OS for 59 bucks to try it
out and their lack of drivers sucked as much as
their technical support."
You act as if the information on what hardware
was supported was kept hidden... they practically
SCREAMED that Release 4 was for geeks and
enthusiasts, and was only supported on a limited
amount of hardware. You could even look up what
drivers were available from 3rd parties on their
BeWare site. If your hardware was not supported,
and you bought it anyway, then that is your
problem.
As for their tech support, I have had good results
from them in general, as I have heard from other
users as well.
"The lack of security on the OS is also a joke."
So I assume you've broken into a BeOS machine
over a network? How'd you do it? Seems like it'd
be quite hard and all, considering it ain't
multi-user nor shipped with a whole ton of
servers.
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Posted by OGL:
Why would I give a crap? By the time they actually come out (assuming it's not vaporware) there will be dozens more better and newer games for win98.
-W.W.
Microsoft is as vulnerable as it's going to get right now--and has been ever since the trial got into full swing. But what happened? Microsoft mentioned BeOS as a "competitor" to Windows during the trial...and Gassee denied it! Mistake. He should have *embraced* it, and come out shouting to the rooftops that "Be is better than Windows, easier to use than a Mac, and as stable as Linux!" But Be didn't do that. They pussied out and now they're never going to get much of the desktop market--unless maybe they smarten up and adopt a vocal, anti-Windows stance. But they're not going to do it--they're too "nice" and it will be/has been their undoing...
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."--Andrew Jackson
Why would one want to?
.profiles and so on is not for the average Joe. And for Be's Media target market, ease of use is critical. How many Unix using musicians are there? Not anywhere near as many as there are Mac using musicians. Because Unix can't do music? No. Because Mac's (and Windows, for that matter) allow the musician to concentrate on their art, using the apps instead of setting up and maintaining the OS.
:-) ). But the fact is, Joe Musician can go to Local Store X, buy a Mac and a Midi app, hook it up to his keyboard, install the software and be up and running before the Linux user gets the OS installed. Some of that is an organizational issue (how many local stores will preinstall Linux for you, while Macs come preinstalled with MacOS), but Linux is not easy to install. Sure, I can do it. And so can you. But what does partition mean to Joe Musician? :-)
There are 2 catagories of Linux apps to address here: X an non-X.
Non-X - Most of these are already ported or are recompile and run apps. But they provide a poor user experience for the average Joe user. Plus they offer nothing Be specific. If I wanted Linux, I would crack open my Red Hat CD. I have BeOS installed because I like an alternative to the command line.
X - Linux is, to a large degree, in the same boat as Be, here. Lacking in serious, big time apps. Sure, there are a few, like Corel and some promised. But there just aren't enough X apps to make it worthwhile to port X. Besides the fact that X is very Unix in style. Creating
Yes, I know technically how much better Unix is than Macs/Win. I use Unix all day every day at work (using Win as a dumb terminal!
Honestly, while I love having Bash and the Unix tools available to me on BeOS, I don't tell people about them when I demo the OS unless I know that they are Unix weenies like me, or they ask. Otherwise, the will run scared.
Availability of software has always been THE deciding factor for an OS, not technical merit at all. This is why Apple has not really succeeded, and with Apple you at least get almost everything you could want in software. The key is that there are still SOME important things you can't use on these other OSes. Most people will never switch from Microsoft if it means they can't play Diablo 2 or whatever. This is why proprietaries like DirectX, "Windows Media," etc. are the real problems.
Free software movement notwithstanding, Linux needs commercial software support to be mainstream.
at least, that's what Be claims.
The IPO will provide them with the capital that they need to pursue just that issue. Of course, whether it works or not is a matter of speculation.
Something that appeals to me about Be, as opposed to, say, Yahoo or Excite, is that that Be actually has a product, a physical "thing" that they can sell. Rather than being a nebulous, non-producing company, they do have something to sell. Now, that may not make any difference if the operating system ends up being another OS/2, but it does make them somewhat more traditional than the current crop of Internet companies.
That being said, I can say that I have no intention of investing my money in Be. I don't think that they are poised to step in as a replacement for anyone. They certainly don't compete with Microsoft and they aren't the media darling that is Linux. But perhaps they will find a niche.
Oh, and I do use BeOS 4.5 on one of my systems, but only because they sent it to me for free!
=h=
I dunno, the BeOS is a good OS, but it suffers the same problem as any OS not widely used: no apps. Will an IPO really solve this?
Looking at all that gold coin you are lounging on over on After Y2K, you could buy probably pick up a considerable amount of Be's IPO! Hey, can I come to your next pool party? Such pretty girls....
I wish everyone's business well, but I gotta be honest here. I just do not see a large groundswell of userbase forming.
Just a bunch of daytraders looking for the next 'tech' IPO they think that they can schmooze a buck from.
I'd bet more people use FORTH than Be.
I dont feel good about the IPO announcement by Be. There are pros and cons in going public, but in my perspective, the cons outweight the pros.
My main problem with public companies is that it tends to degrade the character of a company. Whenever you give up a part of your control (as the head of a company) to a guy with money, you lose a lot
When big money starts to get involved, the main focus of the company is going to shift from making the best possible OS, to the most profit. This is a general statement. Of course, private companies seek to make profit too, and yes, sometimes profit and making a better products are not mutually exclusive.
When it comes down to the line, and there is a tough decesion to make between short term profitability, and the general health of the product, the publically controlled companies will generally choose the former, while the private company has more of a probability of taking the hard road (depending of course, on the head)
I have nothing concrete to lay down, these are just my feelings about the issue.
Laxative
Yeah, god forbit anyone here ever bought software.. Give me a break, its $90, thats less than a upgrade to a Microsoft OS, and a bit more than Redhat charges for the book set of Redhat 6..
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
It's difficult to guess how much money Be Inc. will raise from their IPO, but it's probably their only way to take the company anywhere. Ideally, they'll get some more press and some money to spend on marketing (oops, I meant "branding"). Maybe they'll attract the attention of a few bigger players (internet media companies or people like Creative Labs) and gain a few partnerships.
Can you imagine a partnership between Creative and Be Inc? If Creative (along with EMU and Ensoniq) built a mega-featured music workstation using BeOS, I know I'd be drolling.... I'm picturing something that looks almost like an iMac, only with lots of wonderful analog knobs all over the place... yum...
Anyhow, a big influx of cash never hurt anyone (ehem). I just hope that E-Trade knows what they're doing with this offering...
-NooM
I'm glad to see that Be is doing well. Quite frankly, it's an OS that's ready for prime time--it fulfills the promise which the Mac used to have.
i les/page1.html
But I think what's really hurt them in the long run is their very "niceness" and lack of aggression. Yes, they're the "Media OS" extraordinaire, and marketing themselves as that got their feet in a lot of doors. But they should have expanded on that once they did get a foothold--they should have started a long time ago to market themselves as a mainstream OS, and the perfect choice for "grown-up Mac users" so to speak. As someone who started out on Macs, at a college full of Macs, I have a special liking for BeOS which is everything MacOS *should* have become. But, thanks to the stereotype of Be as a "niche" OS, few people outside the technobubble ever even hear of Be. If they'd been aggressive, said and done a few of the things the Linux community has done and said about Microsoft and their kind of software, then they would have gotten the press necessary to raise their visibility a long time ago.
Think about it: Linux has the visibility, and is waiting on the GUI-liciousness to move into the seat occupied by Windows. BeOS, on the other hand, has the smoothness of silk and is easy enough for WebTV'er to use, while incredibly robust and capable--but it lacks the visibility of Linux. Of course it also lacks the hardware support which Linux offers, but *that* is also a function of visibility--Be would have lots of developers, if it were more visible, and so higher profile would have given it enough hardware support to seriously push on Windows right now.
There's the Catch-22, which can be reduced to what I said in the beginning--Be got its foot in the door by being "the Media OS", but once they did they should have become as vocal as the Linux community, as persistent about the superiority of their OS, and they should have actively dragged potential developers to their camp through the media attention they could have gotten. But they missed out, and now Linux has come up from behind and become *the* challenger which Be could have been. Just my 2 cents...
* * * *
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficient..."--Justice Brandeis
http://homestead.dejanews.com/user.sirwinston/f
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."--Andrew Jackson
Which, by the way, is the majority of Windows
users. So, Be has a HUGE userbase. Check out some
of the IRC channels, the web sites, all the companies porting software, and the software base as of right now (Yes, there IS a ton of software available!). I personally use BeOS because I know the OS and GUI are locked source and will always be under control, so I wont have any incompatabilities like I did with Linux and E. There is finally a TRUE saviour, and it sure isn't Linux!
I ran Be r4 and a while ago i got r4.5 in the mail. I have yet to try r4.5 because in the mean time I had sold my x86 box and built an alpha. With all this talk of Be I got to thinking, if they ported BeOS to the alpha that would kick ass. The 21264 has all sorts of mvi instructions built in which resemble the mmx/3dnow instructions in the x86 world, which are all designed to help multi-media content creators. (IMHO) the alpha is definitly one of the better processors out there, being 64 bit risc, and all that, besides its fast as anything. I just think it too bad Be seems to be chained to the most mainstream of mainstream for hardware support, although they do support the ppc, which gives me a little hope that they might atleast consider porting to the alpha, becuase it is the fastest platform out there, and thats what most of the "media" people are looking for because every day thier prodoctivity is dependant on how fast thier machine is.
:)
Sorry for the rambling, but two things I loved, BeOS and the alpha, just the thought of them together is enough to well....i get all warm inside
I don't think this dude is a troll. I don't see how ANYONE is going to make money with Be stock. Be hasn't made a dime. It's gone through SO much money and has little to show for it. Look how far Linux has come with NO VC and thousands of individuals. Be is trying to carve too much of a nich and it won't survive in the long run. If you are already giving the masses the choice of Winblows, Mac, and Linux, what incentive is there to go with BeOS? I think it's a great OS, but it doesn't offer anything really new to me.
This IPO is a last gasp, IMO. It just follows on the heels of all these other IPOs that are tech-related. Let's see if it tanks like half of them.
Is because Linux has started its downhill decent
of being overhyped, overtalked, and generally the people that support it are mostly all pompous jerks (Ever try and get help from a Linux user on IRC or via email? Maybe even off one of the many web sites?). Granted, thats such a large generalization, but the news scene is definately seeing it, with reports how Linux really isnt any faster than NT, etc, etc... We dont WANT to think we are the best OS, we dont WANT to try and say how much better we are, we just want people to give it a try and see for themselves. We shouldnt HAVE to make noise.
IMHO I think they're stepping into the market to make a quick buck and thats the bottom line. I bought the BeOS 4 OS for 59 bucks to try it out and their lack of drivers sucked as much as their technical support. After e-mailing them with a simple question last month they've yet to respond. The search on their site is inconsistent and turned up "Under Re-Construction" pages that havent been updated according to the site since 1998. Now why would someone fork over cash to a company with the lack of support they have? Take into consideration that even crappy OS'es like MickeySoft send you a templated answer. While they may BS you with some 0-day irrelevant message it's nice to know at least you get an autoresponder.
The lack of security on the OS is also a joke.
Just my opinions, flame away.
root@regret.org
sil@macroshaft.org
sil@antioffline.com
Want Root?
Amazon and eBay are established Internet sites that were popular (albeit unprofitable) long before their IPO's. BeOS is an unpopular (from a mainstream viewpoint) company with a very closed niche market.
People bought AMZN and EBAY because they took advantage of a new medium, the Internet. BeOS has been trying to break into the OS market for far too long. If you're trying to buy a software company based on hype and promise, buy Red Hat. The technology community has far more faith in Linux than BeOS.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
For more information, click here.
According to the IPO application, Be has spent around $45M in the entire eight years of their private existence.
Be has estimated that they can survive very comfortably if they can attain a 1% market share. I don't think it's too far-fetched to imagine them getting 5 or 10% and maybe even more - but then again, BeOS could easily languish and eventually die.
As for "there aren't many things that Be can do that Windows NT can't" and "have since pretty much failed to innovate", well, I think you ought to get BeOS 4.5 and spend some time with it. As a desktop OS, there really isn't any comparison. NT just seems slow and clunky, but hey, if you prefer NT to BeOS, who am I to question your choice.
The "lack of apps" is a real marketplace barrier, but it's not a valid technical argument against BeOS or any other OS. By such logic, we should conclude that it is a waste of time for anyone to have anything to do with anything other than Windows.
"It sounds as though you're miffed that your hardware isn't listed and haven't given Be a go because of this. I recommend you look into getting one of their demo CDs and see if it doesn't work with your system. You may be pleasantly surprised."
Dude, I *tried* it on a different system, and I like it. I am *not* miffed that my hardware isn't supported--I had my computer made-to-order just a month ago, so if I'd wanted to run BeOS on this particular box I could have used components which are explicitly supported. *I didn't want to*, because now that Linux is being GUI-fied I'm going to be putting Linux on it. Why? Because as much as I like Be, as good as it is, its lack of a ton of coders (which Linux has) means that I'm not going to get the stuff *I* specifically want for Be any time soon, whereas it's available for Linux *now*. Linux is going to expand in market share; Be won't, unless it starts being VOCAL. Now, I refrained from saying anything bad about Be in my above posts, because I *like* Be and because *there isn't anything bad* about Be. only mentioned some of its *drawbacks*, which are all true.
"Regrdless, please refrain from posting FUD like the content of the first paragraph of your post."
Well, FUD you, too! But seriously, don't mistake honest critique for FUD. The fact is, I think Bf*cked up by not being more vocal and shouting to the hills the merits of their product. That caused them to have fewer developers than they would have gotten if they'd garnered attention by saying "We're better than Windows, easier to use than a Mac, and as reliable as Linux." Lack of developers in turn (compared to, say, the Linux community) led to lack of broad hardware support. They specifically target themselves at high-end users which, even when they support mid-range users, is annoying. Like when they said that sh*t about AMD on their hardware compatibility page--they may be compatible with a fair number of AMD chipsets, but it still pisses me off that they'd say it. And *not all alternative chipsets work fine*, as you imply above. Many do. *Many don't*. Grow up and accept an honest critique as an honest critique, and look at the good ramifications of some of my suggestions instead of crying FUD.
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."--Andrew Jackson
There are a lot of "PC hobbyists" out there with nice, new systems that aren't true geeks (i.e. coders or *nix-heads). Except for the dreaded Winmodem, I would guess that BeOS works fine on at least 70% of PCs currently being sold. If your hardware is supported, it is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY easy to install and run BeOS - even though I don't think BeOS is for idiots, the installation is about the most idiot-proof process imaginable. I can imagine a lot of these hobbyist types trying to learn Linux and giving up in frustration.
Plus, I don't think it would have made sense to make a big marketing push before they got decent hardware coverage.
Be will kick ass as a music production workstation and all the professional music hardware/software companies know it. I can't wait for Logic 4.0!
huh? how is it unethical to call a loser a loser?
Be needs the money, or they'll have to pack their bags, I think.
But if they DOT'T get the money and they Do fizzle...
Will they open their source as a farewell? That would be sweet.
OS/2 also has 10 years of hardware support. Lots of IHV's still write OS/2 drivers (Crystal Semi, Matrox, 3COM, Adaptec, etc) but don't even care about BeOS.
A Be engineer said earlier this year that he think s there are 25,000 BeOS users out there. 25K!?!?!? That's tiny!!! OS/2 has easily two orders of magnitude more users than that (granted, a lot of them are in banks, but it still counts).
Many of you might think that OS/2 is dead. Well, if you just compare the numbers, then it means that BeOS is stillborn.
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
Posted by OGL:
/. and whine about how all Linux users do is hype etc. etc. etc.
/. anymore without being flamed and FUDed, as this message probably will be).
dude, chill out
I installed BeOS and it worked fine I suppose (I built this computer out of basically "open" hardware so it works with just about any operating system), but I wasn't too impressed. I'll probably get rid of it when I need the second hard drive for something else. In the meantime it just kind of sits there looking bland and doing nothing useful. As a "pompous jerk" who sits around on IRC all day helping people with Linux, I would have to take offense at your comments; we can't solve every problem on IRC, and sometimes people ask questions when no one is around to help. It happens, we're not getting paid for it, so if you don't get your problems solved for you then don't go on
Comments like that are ironic because Be has to be the most hyped OS of the century. Contrary to your beliefs, most Be users will reccomend their OS as the _best_ in existence and flame to hell anyone who thinks otherwise (no, I don't feel sorry for any of you people...you can't say anything negative about Be even on
I definitely don't think Linux is overhyped or in a descent. I certainly haven't seen anything else which makes it not worth using.
-W.W.
But for the long term, I think there are some interesting factors at work here.
I think BeOS is a compelling solution for the type of person who just wants to do things with their computers. They can dabble in graphics with the arty programs available, try out sleek and smooth video editing systems, and even write documents and spreadsheets with GoBe. The weakest point is the web browser, which cannot access web sites relying on JavaScript. But that will change once Bezilla and Opera appear on the scene.
I see BeOS sneaking through the back door of computing, and I'm betting this is exactly what Jean-Louis Gassee wants. If I had a balanced stock portfolio of $ 50k or more, I'd throw $ 500 his way and let him run with the ball. I think it will be one heck of a ride.
D
----
What Slashdot needs is an IPO icon and category... how about a picture of a bandwagon full of money? Seems so many start-ups and businesses we've known for so long are now stockmarket-bound :) I'm just waiting for Transmeta to hop on the IPO bandwagon.
"I welcome you all to the first shareholders meeting for Transmeta Corp. I would like to tell you how our product development is going, but then I'd have to kill you. Thank you all for investing, and don't worry! We'll release something, someday!"
When's the Slashdot IPO? I'd invest... "Buy now! Own your stake of Rob! Traded on NASDAQ, symbol SDOT!!"
:)
jason
well, Yahoo and Excite would probably be more worthwhile investmenst, after all what do CBS, ABC and NBC "sell"? they don't sell anything. and even though be does sell *somthing* they don't sell much. I admit, Yahoo is a little over valued for my taste... :)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
If a company had to be extremely successful, popular, and reliable before they IPOed, trying to have a startup (especially tech startups) in this world would be extremely different than it is today. Companies such as Yahoo (NSDQ: YHOO) and Amazon.com (NSDQ: AMZN) are fairly accurate examples of this situation.
While Be doesn't currently have the application base to be a strong competitor against the other OSes, one should evaluate the possibilities that will evolve as the company (and software!) develops.
--
Daniel Baker - dbaker@cuckoo.com - dbaker@distributed.net
The bugfix update to Windows 98 is $20.
When I ordered it I was expecting kind of a 'service pack' thing to just paste in on top of the old Windows 98. What I got appears to be a whole new installable version. For $20.
I don't understand why so many /.ers seem to have a big thing against Be. I don't want to start a flame war, but I don't understand the feelings. Remember that Be is an end-user OS, designed to compete (or complement) Windows 9x or the MacOS. It's not designed for geeks. True, us geeks like it and mess with it but it's easier to install and configure than any *nix variant. Here's what else y'all seem to be saying:
So other than the fact that it's not some flavor of *nix, what are the real arguments... or is that the only beef?
This may be a bit off topic but I was wondering about the possiblity of running Linux applications in BeOS.
Be claims to be highly POSIX compliant, and there are numerous GNU and BSD ports to Be. FreeBSD has Linux compatibility and other *nix vendors are planning Linux binary compatibility. I have heard that X11 development on Be has been slow in coming, which is likely to be a stumbling block for many porting efforts.
If I could run WordPerfect and a descent X server I wouldn't need Linux.
Getting back on topic, I think that if Be had Linux binary capability it would address some of the problems with lack of applications. Of course Windows compatibility would mean all kinds of applications but such an effort would be difficult (for many technical and legal reasons). However Linux compatibility for Be would be simpler given the Unix-ish nature of the OS and the availability of Linux/GNU/BSD code.
what do you mean?
are you sure about that?
Logic means nothing in tech-stock trading...
Blar.
BTW, what happened to the Be website? It seems to have morphed some time ago from a cool and fun site to a marketing filled, un-navigatable, information devoid page.
I guess an IPO changes us all.
Face it -- This is just an attempt at publicity. 50-60 mil isn't that much money, and Be has burned through tons of VC and has had tons of debt. There aren't many things that Be can do that Windows NT can't, and the few things that be does lead in (mainly pseudo real-time features), Microsoft could add to Windows. As for set-top boxes, as I understand it, that's just something they're saying for the IPO and they aren't really doing much in the regard. They have been screwing away the advantages they had (Multiprocessor/Thread support) for the past 8 years or so, and have since pretty much failed to innovate. As to the poster who mentioned Be zealotry compared to OS/2, Amiga, Mac and Linux zealotry, just look where it got the first three platforms to see how much that matters. For Be to get anywhere they need a killer app, and they don't have one, and don't look like they're going to get one.
"There aren't many things that Be can do that Windows NT can't"
That's not the point. BeOS does what it's designed to do extremly well, unlike NT, which is (trying to) be Jack of all trades, and master of none.
"As for set-top boxes, as I understand it, that's
just something they're saying for the IPO and they aren't really doing much in the regard"
HELLO? You can buy $200 set-top boxes NOW.
Sheesh, just look at MS roadmap for Neptune (MS next consumer OS) it looks like a brochure from Be. MS is starting to be worried, I suspect...
Jón
...and that's no bugfix upgrade ala W98...
J.
But, on the other hand, it's not quite so easy. If they did that,
they would become a Microsoft competitor, and we all know
how Microsoft deals with competition. Maybe it has been to
their advantage to lay low until Microsoft is vulnerable.
We have only one product that may never gain broad market acceptance.
BeOS is our only product and we will derive all our revenue for the foreseable future from sales of BeOS. To date, BeOS has been used primarily by a limited number of enthusiast and application developers...
They go on to say on page 9:
Our success depends upon availability of third party applications that operate on BeOS.
Demand and market acceptance for BeOS will significantly depend upon the availability of an increasing number of third party applications that operate on the BeOS platform. These applications include video and audio editing programs, 3D games, creative audio and video content development and manipulation, and personal productivity applications.
We intend to encourage the development of an increasing number of applications that operate on BeOS by attracting third party developers to the BeOS platform and by maintaining our existing developer relationships through marketing, technical support and financial incentives for third party developers. However, third party developers are generally under no obligation to develop applications based on the BeOS platform.
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