That doesn't sound like helping Debian, but forking Debian.
Thats the kind of help Debian needs to catch up with the times. A sort of development branch that is not hindered by DEbian red tape. Because of Ubuntu, Debian's transition to Xorg will be a lot easier. The organization is too messy to do anything within it....
Do we have any numbers on how many casual desktop users actually left Debian for its late release?
No, that would be impossible to measure. What you can measure is all the new Desktop Distro based on Debian since its last release (MEPIS, Ubuntu, Kanotix, Libranet, Xandros, Linspire, etc.) That would add up to a bunch. These users had to come from somewhere. Some are new, but some probably used Debian at one time.
So, it's a good question how Canonical will be successful when other much better funded companies like SuSE and Caldera were not.
Well first of all it doesn't need to be that sort of successful. Mark Shuttleworth has said before that he hopes to break even but he doesn't mind if he doesn't and the whole thing is charity. Success to him is building a big community, helping Debian, and having an OS he likes to use.
He has a lot on money and he already has put enough aside to keep Ubuntu going for a while. Ubuntu has a much better foundation than most new distros (thank Debian for that) and has come at a time when OSS is getting exponentially popular.
My concern about Unbuntu is that they still do not have a viable business model. Without that, they are always at risk of just folding up and going away to some extent. Will they disappear entirely, I doubt it. But they will certainly take a hit.
Canonical has the same business model of Red Hat or Mandriva- sell support for their distro. As is gets more popular, more people need support. Until then Ubuntu has a benefactor that is far richer than most in the OSS world...
Are you insinuating that "Desktop" users are stupid cunts who can't even use the same installer as Ubuntu with just a few more added questions?
Nope. You got a lot from my post that isn't there. I am SAYING that many former Debian users prefer to have the best and brightest on their desktop and Ubuntu provides this better than Sid (which breaks a bunch randomly) or Sarge (which has alot of older packages than Hoary). It has nothing to do with how easy the OS is to run or install. If in fact Ubuntu is easier to run or install it is because of the great documentation (such as the guide or forum) that provides better support than Debian's IRC channels.
All I can say is THANK GOODNESS. A lot of bad air has risen between Ubuntu and Debian lately on some news sites (very trollish if you ask me) and I think the core of the problem was tension related to Sarge's release. Now that Sarge will be released, Debianites will feel better and a great server distro will once again grab the spotlight for a while.
Of course, I don't think Sarge will get all of the Debian desktop users back. I hope that community is fine with its role of being a server distro.
what about those who vote against it? the government takes their money against their will.
They get to suffer from a effect of Democracy- everyone doesn't get what they want. Just the majority do. Conservatives here in the south of the U.S. complain all the time that their tax money goes into welfare (an institution they think is unfair). Its their right to complain, but they still have to pay because the representitives choosen by voters have instituted welfare.
Its the development version, so probably the first one. Just like Hoary when its was in the development branch. Same concept, they just decieded to give that branch a name so that future names of Ubuntu releases only refer to stable versions...
Is Ubuntu appropriate for use on servers (their website claims so, but I'd like to hear from others)?
It has a server install that I've heard works well (it is the minimal install).
If so, what are its advantages over say, Centos 4.0 or Debian Sarge?
Well, it has a release unlike Sarge (and has a few newer packages).
And if you need them there are many more debs that CentOS has RPMs...
Good point. That explains why everytime I'm on a highway in this state I'm getting passed by a truck whose driver must be morally opposed to speed limits. I always thought it was because of the influence of NASCAR, but it is alot more possible that a person who needs to waste twice as much resources to get from point A to point B as a person in a car for no good reason also wouldn't care about how dangerous their habbits are..
I live in Dallas... and everyone thinks they're driving magical cars that brake even better in rain than in dry conditions.
As a fellow Texan, I must inform you that most people do believe they are buying "magical cars"- pickum-up trucks. I mean, why else would you spend more money on a vehicle that will cost you more in gas in the long run? Because it makes them feel safer.
What about my bragging rights for being able to install Gentoo using only a bash shell and minimal *nix tools?
Don't you see...that the best part. Gentoo users will no longer think they are special because they can follow directions and stand a large amount of pain to put together an OS. Now Gentoo can stand on its real merits.
Is anyone else worried about the day when drivers for new hardware no longer work in Win2K?
No, because after years of not being happy with XP- despite efforts on my part- I decided that I no longer wanted to be dependent on a sliding giant. I spent months trying to learn Linux, even though every distro I tried was worse than 2K so that I wouldn't have to worry. Finally a version of Linux was released that I think is better than W2K (Ubuntu 5.04) and I happily don't give a damn if Longhorn is yet another regression. (NOTE: I haven't used Windows 2003 that much, I don't know how good it is...)
That's one of the main criticisms of corporations. All the privileges of citizens*, none of the responsibility.
Right on. I wish I had some mod points. I bring this up every time I am dealing with a corporate apologist. As far as the courts are concerned, corporations are the same as people. The only large legal difference is that corporations can't vote. Whats so sickening about this fact is that its established on a 100 year old interpretation of the 14th amendment that was intended to aid former slaves.
This "a corporation is a citizen" bullshit is why the political system in the U.S. can't be fixed. What needs to happen is that the amount of corporate money pumped into campaigns needs to decrease. Now its just a big corrupt racket. Yet the few decent representatives that want to do something (such as John McCain) can't because any law that would limit these funds would "infringe on a corporation's right to free speech."
A corporation shouldn't have a right to free speech. Only people should. Fuck apologists.
During that time, he had a graphic on the top of the X strike force page telling users to "Have a nice cup of shut the fuck up!" When I first installed Debian and wondered if my video card would be supported any time soon, that was the first place I looked, and I was mildly offended.
Its still there I think. I use it as my desktop. Its funny dammit!
I live in a very conservative state, so I know that moral conservative (as opposed to the much smaller but smarter group of fiscal conservatives) do like to associate themselves with the Republican Party. Liberals just have a party that they kinda care about just to make the other guys lose, and with that attitude they are still suprised when they don't win.
When its all said and done I hope Social Security reform quietly dies and the real issue, which is Medicare reform, sees the light of day. Medicare is projected to run out of money in something like 2012, making it much more of an immediate threat, not just to people who need it, but to everyone that pays taxes.
It won't for one simple reason: its part of a bigger problem. In order to fix medicare, Bush would have to fix a medical cost crises that is currently happening in the U.S. No one has any ideas that are practical. Its hard to find a way to fix the U.S.'s situation (and no, Canda's system wouldn't work in the U.S.). So they would rather let medical care collapse. Insurance rates will continue to rise higher than inflation and higher than increases in wages. Soon there won't be enough people that have insurance, which means that those that do pay will have to pay more than they can afford. The system will crash in its current state. Medicare goes with it.
I hereby call Linus out and demand accountability for providing GUI integration on the Linux desktop. Until the "leadership" of Linux makes this a priority it probably isn't going to happen. This needs to be addressed at the top.
Why is Linus responsible for lack of a perfect Linux GUI? Because he made a system that does not require a GUI?
He holds up his end of the bargin- he makes a great kernel to build stuff on. The KDE and Gnome people are the ones working on the GUI. And they are having problems because video drivers (especially ATIs) are crap and you need good video drivers to have a nice GUI. None of this is Linus's fault.
A. It was asked to do too much. Its a good web browser, but in order to get through the courts it was forced to be a lot of other stuff such as a file manager.
B. Active X got out of control and made it a hazard. Broadband makes almost any pre-SP2 IE user a timebomb for malware.
C. Mix of A and B makes for a huge security nightmare.
Luckily on Linux you don't have to care about what IE does because it runs in a box called Wine. Its harmless and fun to use!
Slashdot Mirror
Thats the kind of help Debian needs to catch up with the times. A sort of development branch that is not hindered by DEbian red tape. Because of Ubuntu, Debian's transition to Xorg will be a lot easier. The organization is too messy to do anything within it....
No, that would be impossible to measure. What you can measure is all the new Desktop Distro based on Debian since its last release (MEPIS, Ubuntu, Kanotix, Libranet, Xandros, Linspire, etc.) That would add up to a bunch. These users had to come from somewhere. Some are new, but some probably used Debian at one time.
Well first of all it doesn't need to be that sort of successful. Mark Shuttleworth has said before that he hopes to break even but he doesn't mind if he doesn't and the whole thing is charity. Success to him is building a big community, helping Debian, and having an OS he likes to use.
He has a lot on money and he already has put enough aside to keep Ubuntu going for a while. Ubuntu has a much better foundation than most new distros (thank Debian for that) and has come at a time when OSS is getting exponentially popular.
Canonical has the same business model of Red Hat or Mandriva- sell support for their distro. As is gets more popular, more people need support. Until then Ubuntu has a benefactor that is far richer than most in the OSS world...
Yes Bruce. Its almost exactly the same except the Debian one asks more questions.
Nope. You got a lot from my post that isn't there. I am SAYING that many former Debian users prefer to have the best and brightest on their desktop and Ubuntu provides this better than Sid (which breaks a bunch randomly) or Sarge (which has alot of older packages than Hoary). It has nothing to do with how easy the OS is to run or install. If in fact Ubuntu is easier to run or install it is because of the great documentation (such as the guide or forum) that provides better support than Debian's IRC channels.
Of course, I don't think Sarge will get all of the Debian desktop users back. I hope that community is fine with its role of being a server distro.
For a little more money, I think Toshibas make the best laptops ever...
They get to suffer from a effect of Democracy- everyone doesn't get what they want. Just the majority do. Conservatives here in the south of the U.S. complain all the time that their tax money goes into welfare (an institution they think is unfair). Its their right to complain, but they still have to pay because the representitives choosen by voters have instituted welfare.
Life ain't fair. Deal with it.
Here is the URL for people like me who just found out.
Its the development version, so probably the first one. Just like Hoary when its was in the development branch. Same concept, they just decieded to give that branch a name so that future names of Ubuntu releases only refer to stable versions...
Is Ubuntu appropriate for use on servers (their website claims so, but I'd like to hear from others)? It has a server install that I've heard works well (it is the minimal install). If so, what are its advantages over say, Centos 4.0 or Debian Sarge? Well, it has a release unlike Sarge (and has a few newer packages). And if you need them there are many more debs that CentOS has RPMs...
Good point. That explains why everytime I'm on a highway in this state I'm getting passed by a truck whose driver must be morally opposed to speed limits. I always thought it was because of the influence of NASCAR, but it is alot more possible that a person who needs to waste twice as much resources to get from point A to point B as a person in a car for no good reason also wouldn't care about how dangerous their habbits are..
As a fellow Texan, I must inform you that most people do believe they are buying "magical cars"- pickum-up trucks. I mean, why else would you spend more money on a vehicle that will cost you more in gas in the long run? Because it makes them feel safer.
I hope so, considering that Libranet uses Ubuntu packages.
Don't you see...that the best part. Gentoo users will no longer think they are special because they can follow directions and stand a large amount of pain to put together an OS. Now Gentoo can stand on its real merits.
Yes. W2K is Microsoft's best.
Is anyone else worried about the day when drivers for new hardware no longer work in Win2K?
No, because after years of not being happy with XP- despite efforts on my part- I decided that I no longer wanted to be dependent on a sliding giant. I spent months trying to learn Linux, even though every distro I tried was worse than 2K so that I wouldn't have to worry. Finally a version of Linux was released that I think is better than W2K (Ubuntu 5.04) and I happily don't give a damn if Longhorn is yet another regression. (NOTE: I haven't used Windows 2003 that much, I don't know how good it is...)
Right on. I wish I had some mod points. I bring this up every time I am dealing with a corporate apologist. As far as the courts are concerned, corporations are the same as people. The only large legal difference is that corporations can't vote. Whats so sickening about this fact is that its established on a 100 year old interpretation of the 14th amendment that was intended to aid former slaves.
This "a corporation is a citizen" bullshit is why the political system in the U.S. can't be fixed. What needs to happen is that the amount of corporate money pumped into campaigns needs to decrease. Now its just a big corrupt racket. Yet the few decent representatives that want to do something (such as John McCain) can't because any law that would limit these funds would "infringe on a corporation's right to free speech."
A corporation shouldn't have a right to free speech. Only people should. Fuck apologists.
I prefer to add orange juice.
Its still there I think. I use it as my desktop. Its funny dammit!
And thats the problem Mr. Coward.
I live in a very conservative state, so I know that moral conservative (as opposed to the much smaller but smarter group of fiscal conservatives) do like to associate themselves with the Republican Party. Liberals just have a party that they kinda care about just to make the other guys lose, and with that attitude they are still suprised when they don't win.
And moderates like me....we are just screwed.
It won't for one simple reason: its part of a bigger problem. In order to fix medicare, Bush would have to fix a medical cost crises that is currently happening in the U.S. No one has any ideas that are practical. Its hard to find a way to fix the U.S.'s situation (and no, Canda's system wouldn't work in the U.S.). So they would rather let medical care collapse. Insurance rates will continue to rise higher than inflation and higher than increases in wages. Soon there won't be enough people that have insurance, which means that those that do pay will have to pay more than they can afford. The system will crash in its current state. Medicare goes with it.
Now let's get back to troll smashing... ;)
You first...
Why is Linus responsible for lack of a perfect Linux GUI? Because he made a system that does not require a GUI?
He holds up his end of the bargin- he makes a great kernel to build stuff on. The KDE and Gnome people are the ones working on the GUI. And they are having problems because video drivers (especially ATIs) are crap and you need good video drivers to have a nice GUI. None of this is Linus's fault.
A. It was asked to do too much. Its a good web browser, but in order to get through the courts it was forced to be a lot of other stuff such as a file manager.
B. Active X got out of control and made it a hazard. Broadband makes almost any pre-SP2 IE user a timebomb for malware.
C. Mix of A and B makes for a huge security nightmare.
Luckily on Linux you don't have to care about what IE does because it runs in a box called Wine. Its harmless and fun to use!