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Sarge is Now Frozen
JoeBuck writes "Steve Langasek has announced that Debian Sarge is now frozen. He produced a schedule that would lead to a Debian release at the end of May, though I would expect it to slip somewhat. I'm glad that the long wait for a Debian release will soon be over."
Haha for a second there I thought the title said "Sarge is Now Frozen," I guess I should put my glassess... wait, what the...
I hope they can thaw him out.
By frozen, I'm guessing you mean poor Sarge was cryogenically frozen, right? What's the prognosis?
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
That pig flying was about this. Was wondering wtf that was about.
Big woop now it's only 3 years behind. FP and FT.
Silly rabbits.
I was upset to see that KDE 3.4 was being held back from Sid until Sarge released (I ended up getting it from the Kubuntu sources), and I believe a few other packages followed this policy as well. Now that Sarge is coming out I assume we'll see some major updates in Sid. On that note, does anyone know when Debian will adopt X.org?
I really hope they didn't do this because all of the controversy regarding debian as "dead" and Ubuntu the winner.
/ 2335221
Keep debian stable!
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/11
Duke Nuke'm Forever was released and Microsoft committed toa firm launch date for Longhorn.
This guy is way out there
What will this mean for us debian users? Does this mean sarge will become the stable branch?
They did NOT say the distribution was frozen, only the name.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
it wont make any difference. everything will still be out of date, just even more out of date....
Whaddaya know?
"Chance of flurries tonight, lows in the teens."
As slow as Sarge has been to be released, you would think it was frozen long ago. But seriously, I wonder if this is a way to prempt Ubuntu.
For regular Debian stable users, this doesn't mean too much: a simple apt-get upgrade is all it will take to 'upgrade' to Sarge.
For new Debian users, Debian testing images based upon the new installer have long been available here.
My main question is why Debian didn't advertise the above-linked installation images more. Just finding a link to the new installer ISO images is like navigating a maze blind-folded. Yes, I understand that they're not 'release-quality' yet, but it would take just a simple warning on the page to download Debian: "Please try our new installer! Although it's not completely stable, it's faster and easier to use and is definitely worth a try."
Ubuntu's installer is based upon the new installer, and it's not unreasonable to believe that many people use Ubuntu because it's an easier-to-install Debian, in no small part due to the work on Debian's new installer (and the great work of Ubuntu developers).
I'm Trappped at Berkeley.
This is the last April Fools's joke?
http://www.michel.eti.br
most of our team left Debian a while back. While its stability is still a strong point, many other distros are very proactive about putting out a stable, quality product these days without the rediculously long timeline....
K
I want to use Debian but I need to get my CD burner from 1992 working and need at least kernel 2.2. thx.
you mean debian is ready for microwave-oven? errr.. nevermind..
Debian has still been growing consistently. So they aren't dead yet. Sure, the release will be hugely behind but this gets the ball rolling in the right direction before they become irrelevant.
Of course, a better time for this would have been a year ago, before Ubuntu started to eat into the Debian user base, while breaking compatibility. But it may be soon enough to stop even that from happening.
amirite?
Debian isn't dead, it's name should just be changed to "Ubuntu Server" ;-)
Burns: You know, Smithers, I think I'll donate a million dollars to
the local orphanage...when pigs fly!
[They laugh. The pig sails across the sky before them.]
Smithers: Will you be donating that million dollars now, Sir?
Burns: Nooo, I'd still prefer not.
I realize a lot of the posts here are in jest, but what's wrong with being a little slow on the release schedule? There hasn't been a release of Microsoft's desktop OS since 2001 (wow, comparing Debian to Windows XP - kind of like comparing __insert appropriate metaphor__).
As long as the developers are still committed to maintaining the distro, I think we should all be thankful that Debian is so conscientious in it's release policy.
Something else froze today too!
Just because there are always people who don't know how this works...
Each generation of Debian is named after a character from Toy Story. Potato, Sarge, Woody (the one I run), Slink, Hamm and Sid. Sid is always "testing", the most unstable places for apps to go. Remember who Sid was in Toy Story? Same thing. After packages get more stable, they get promoted to "testing". For a while, this has been "Sarge". After "testing" proves itself (and they demote packages that can't get more stable), it gets promoted to "stable"-- today that's "woody".
Sarge being frozen means that sometime in the near future, we'll have a new "stable", with more recent packages.
People who run servers but can't afford to qualify them much should probably stick with "stable". "Testing" is for desktop users who don't like much churn, but it's still more stable than Windows, IMHO. "Unstable" is for the bleeding edge who want someone else to do the compiling.
For more information, visit your local library.
i thought they would never quit working on that stupid distro, just put it in deep freeze and forget about it.
Hell, these are news? Sarge has been frozen for only god knows how long already =P
João Pinheiro
2010 maybe. And it'll come with KDE 1.2, Gnome 0.1, Linux kernel 1.2, and EGCS.
Sarge is frozen?
OMG, I have missed final Woodey release!
Or maybe I haven't?
Hmm, things look really strange. Pigs are flying fat lady's singing....Sarge is frozen........ OH MY GOD!!!!! THE END IS NEAR!!!!!
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't
and that is why he is frozen.
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Of course, I don't think Sarge will get all of the Debian desktop users back. I hope that community is fine with its role of being a server distro.
Open Source Sushi
Now I know how Boston felt last World Series.
I hope the Debian developers realize what this is, and take some measures to extricate themselves from the GNU/homosexual-copraphilliac community.
I'm glad that the long wait for a Debian release will soon be over.
Proof positive that you have no idea how Debian works. This isn't Windows, or OS X. If you want the release, just go get the damn release whenever you want. You don't have to wait for it to be stable before you do.
GREAT! now i can have sheer joy (read:agony) of installing/upgrading debian with that masterpiece of code called JIGDO!....no, but seriously, that shitpile of an installer (am i being too generous?) can make some of the best users swear by Windows!
So when is Etch going stable? Guys? Hello? Uhm...
April Fools was a month ago. A month and a day ago, actually. This really isn't funny anymore.
WOOT!
Where would we be if Wheel had hid her round rock in a cave instead of showing everyone how it rolls?
... and so has hell?
Just practicing.
when will I be able to get a Buzz from Debian?
I'll beleive it when I see it
:)
Debian is complete arse, even Redhat is better
ps. Slackware rulez
---- Put Sig here:
LOlL~~~
As far as those of us who would have liked to be using it can tell, it's been frozen for several years.
You know, I think they should have an "inane mod-point wasting babble" mod option as seperate mod points, and give it out to a lot more people to get rid of this crap. Or perhaps a captcha for every anonymous post.
Hahahaha, wow that didn't take long. Just a joke guys. Mod this down too if it makes you feel better I guess.
The comparing methaphor is indeed appropriate, because Debian is a complete software distribution, not just an OS. The equivalent situation would be Microsoft not updating any of their software for three years.
Also, Windows XP SP2 could well be considered a release of its own, considering the depth and breath of the changes (as well as the widespread application breakage).
. . . for the Sarge in Toy Story to have become a Major General in the amount of time it took.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
... to warn people who follow the link not to make plans that rely on the May 30th date. Your suggestion that expecting a further slip differs from common sense is off target. It is no insult to Debian to expect that the RC bug count won't get to zero without a hitch.
What is the new testing going to be called?
Have you tried rebooting?
-- Tech Support
good one ;)
I realize a lot of the posts here are in jest, but what's wrong with being a little slow on the release schedule? There hasn't been a release of Microsoft's desktop OS since 2001 (wow, comparing Debian to Windows XP - kind of like comparing __insert appropriate metaphor__).
There's a word in yiddish - that word is l'havdil (it approximately means "pardon the comparison")
So you're asking "What's wrong with being a little slow to release. L'havdil, Microsoft hasn't released since 2001."
Since most of us weren't alive the last time this happened:
Think seriously about whether you want your apt sources list to say "testing" or "sarge"
There's no single answer to that question, if you get it wrong, it might lead to a very long day.
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
I have waited for a new KDE in Debian for so long!!!
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
Debian is one major cottage industry. It is the foundation of many distros, its a superdistro. An updated debian will produce great distributions with all updated software...
But theyll have to do more than post a slashdot story to convince me... (ranting without actually helping)
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
who cares about linux anymore? Darwin 8.0 is already out, get over yourselves. Tiger 4 Life w00t w00t l33t!!!!!!!!! OS X is awesome.
A BASIC program? On which planet?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Also, Windows XP SP2 could well be considered a release of its own
For those of you who don't follow Debian..don't forget that the current stable release has had THREE "Service Pack" updates since it was released.
Where would we be if Wheel had hid her round rock in a cave instead of showing everyone how it rolls?
It seems that the wait has been forever, so does this mean that sarge is completely out of date before it's officially released?
Meh.
Will it be released before my new Gentoo 2005.0 get ready?
General Halftrack? Did anyone else picture Beetle Bailey's nemesis in cryogenic suspension?
Sorry; it's been a long day.
what form the other three horsemen will take?
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
debian is overrated..
So what if they finally release it? I have to wait another eon for the replacement... no thanks. I'll look elsewhere for a better release cycle.
Nobody cares anymore. Looks at the number of replies on this post.
Hell freezes over.
I think you're going to have to go with a simile on that one.
:-P
With sarge being frozen, and the release nearing, I am finally glad i'll be able to move back to debian. Ubuntu is nice, but debian gives you much more control out of the box.
What is keeping me off of debian right now is the lack of Xorg, and the official support for the amd64 arch. Those were both things that were a "coming after sarge" deal, and now it looks like all that waiting will finally come to an end, I hope.
:(){
Paluminum.net
Who asked for your opinion? You're just a commenter, you're not even an poster (not like their opinion is worth anything either). Commenters giving their (usually different from public/common sense) opinion is increasing these days on slashdot.
Don't you hate meta-sigs?
For those of you who don't follow Debian..don't forget that the current stable release has had THREE "Service Pack" updates since it was released.
Actually the current stable version of debian has had FIVE updates.
...they had to strip WGS out as well to achieve that date, so now it's being called "Poll" instead of "Shorthorn". Disruptive elements within the company are suggesting "XP-SP3".
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I think its really dissapointing when I read all of the flamebait on this thread.
/. readers want to denigrate all of the hardwork that those at debian have been doing because the release cycle doesn't give them exactly what they want.
I've been a loyal debian user for a while and I happen to like the system which they use to control the level of stability/upgradeability that your willing to tolerate.
Furthermore, its just on of the many models of Open Source. I think it is good to have diversity. I have a hard time believing that this many
If its not what you want great, go elsewhere, but leave quietly not bitching about how it doesnt suit *your* needs.
I think people expect more out of open-source projects. Since you can, in theory, have many many times the manpower of a corporation that thrives on closed-source development (such as Microsoft), many people assume that quicker release cycles should follow. While I agree somewhat with that notion, I don't think the lack of frequent releases is indicative of laziness or any other such nonsense that I see from time to time on Slashdot and other forums. It's not laziness; it's a commitment to stability and order. While I tend to stick with more mainstream Linux distros for enterprise tasks, I have colleagues who swear by Debian's stability, order and ease of maintenance.
Frankly, Debian has always come across to me as a more enterprise-ready distro than, say, Gentoo or Mandrake (going off of personal experience). The kind of people I know who use Debian aren't the ones looking for the latest X.org packages so they can play Doom III or have terminal transparency. They're the kind who don't give a rip about what version of KDE comes stock, as they'll be using Debian mostly from an SSH term anyways. I think efforts like the Ubuntu project are a more appropriate approach to a modern desktop-ready Debian than pressuring for more frequent release dates from the Debian Powers that Be.
"You and your third dimension."
I wonder if the new installer and Sarge will go official at the same time ? Im hoping it supports root on raid and auto detects dual processors, otherwise I think I am going to start using SuSe
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
No matter where you go... there you are.
I thought he got voted off Vanuatu?
...and you'll have no trouble remembering that "Sid is unstable".
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Great! Now it's only, what, TWO years behind?
A six- to twelve-month release cycle is what Debian needs. (I've heard comparisons of Sarge taking almost as long as Longhorn, and that's a bad sign.) If you can't get the feature in for the release, drop it for the next. The "it'll be out when it's done" attitude is fine for John Carmack, but not for an operating system. Woody is almost THREE YEARS OLD, for crying out loud!
Other distros like Ubuntu and Fedora have it right: timely releases make users happy and ensure that a distro is kept up-to-date.
RC would cause endless onfusion ("this is rc-rc2") but I'd like it. Try pronouncing it, you'll get all sorts of jokes about good luck. Squeaker? Does it have to be a toy? The Andy release would be a candidate, if not. Does it have to be TS1? If not, Zurg is on the table (Debian could release a distro cored on KERNEL32.EXE? :-).
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The real Bruce Perens has a period after the end of his name.
I never understood why so many people focus so much on releasing a new version like this. I have more or less run Debian since around the Woody release (coming from years of running Slackware) and one of the things I enjoy about Debian is the "floating" update. I generally just do an update with dselect on all my boxes once a week and everything is reasonably current. Debian "old"? Well - most stuff is reasonably up to date and it's certainly more up to date than if I took ANY of the commercial Linuxes and installed that without updates. So what IS the fuss about? I seriously LIKE not having to go through a major update/reinstallation every now and then. In my eyes it's the KEY quality of Debian.
Oh - of course I see the argument in a production environment - and then again - I don't. As I said - been running Debian "testing" or "sarge" for 3 years on something like 20 machines or so. During that time I've had TWO problems that was so serious it made one machine (the one I was testing the update on) unusual for a short while. One was when somebody screwed up the Adaptec aix_7xxx driver in the kernel in the early 2.6.8 and the other was during the switch from LVM 1 to LVM 2. Apart from that - every single update have been successful. That IS pretty impressive if you ask me.
it is a living breathing distribution. Get used to it. Its as easy as apt-get update, apt-get upgrade if you want the latest shit.
... when I say "pwn3d!1"
....halle-fucking-lujah, and jesus-H-fucking-christ where actually getting somewhere.
for "defrost" in apt-get?
Although yours is a competely accurate description of how Debian is *supposed* to work, I have a feeling reality is somewhat different. This is my analysis. Feel free to correct it.
Debian Stable seems to be doing just fine. It's a bit old, so hardware support is dated, but no one who needs a "stable" distro ever complains that Debian Stable isn't "stable" enough. Those using Stable are the same people who like to assume that Debian is a server-only distro, and wonder what all the fuss is about "new releases". Unless you're one of the new users who clicks on debian.org and mistakenly downloads and installs Stable, expecting a modern desktop with modern hardware support, Stable is great.
Testing, which is a somewhat new addition to Debian, doesn't really seem to be fulfilling its mission. The goal for Debian Testing was for it to always be "ready to release". In theory, then, Testing would be an ideal base for third-party distros. Unfortunately, for some reason, few Debian-derived distros use Testing as a base. Most use Unstable instead. Testing is also supposed to be the branch that users can place on a non-production box in order to test out what the next stable will be, and to help stabilize it. Structurally, however, there is little difference between Unstable and Testing. Packages from Unstable are automatically migrated to Testing after a couple of weeks, unless they have glaring flaws. In the time between Debian Stable releases, most upstream sources go through multiple development cycles. Due to this and the constant churn of packages from Unstable into Testing, much of the work done stabilizing Testing is done in vain. Testing is touted as the ideal desktop, and many even use it as a server due to the outdatedness of the Stable branch. Debian Testing is more stable than 90% of other operating systems. But the Testing branch lacks security updates, and broken packages are frequently removed completely from Testing in order to enforce the "ready to release" philosophy. Also, the branch is in constant flux, meaning third-party support is near impossible.
Unstable is supposed to be a developers' and ricers' haven, with the latest up-to-date packages, fresh from the build farms and ready for hours of enjoyment. Unfortunately, Debian Unstable isn't new and unstable enough for many users. Creating Debian's well-built packages takes time, so the latest software usually isn't available overnight. Also, for fear of breaking Unstable, developers have created an even more unstable branch, Experimental, to contain truly unstable packages. Unstable is sometimes preferred over Testing as a desktop because there is no wait for security updates to migrate.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Oh, wait... that still might happen. :-)
I saw this a while back in the mail archives, but it involved pinning because sarge wasn't stable yet. My sources list has "testing" in each line, I'm only updating against testing urls and the postgres url for pgadmin3 (which I'll comment out because I can't get pgadmin3 in testing due to a wxwidgets(?) library dependency not being in testing. I tried a while back to change the "testing" to "sarge" and then apt-get updating, but it didn't work. So, to make sure we all follow sarge into stable, should we now change "testing" to "sarge" in each url? Does this work yet? Is this going to be how current "testing" users wishing to follow "sarge" into stable are going to do it? Or will we need to use pinning which is a bit more complicated for newbies?
A how-to would be great, an email how-to in debian-testing would be great as well (the one discussing pinnning was a bit hard to figure out, I followed it but borked it, if someone makes a how-to, please make it readable for newbies, thanks!).
hell perhaps?
The next release after sarge has already been named: etch.
And planning for it has already begun
While the impending release of Sarge is good, I'm not sure why Debian gets flack over slow releases. Sounds like a developers dream. Stable, well tested, and supported. I'm not sure how you can get any work done when you're constantly retooling or upgrading.
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
So THAT's where the pig caim from. Shit, as a Power pee cee user debian's "sarge" was a fucking joke. Can someone please tell debian the stable joke is old, that no one in their right mind drives a modle t? please get to at least the pontiac duster with running boards.
Do know know what the resources of Microsoft even are? 40 billion/year buys you a lot of developers, *full time*. 40 billion/200k (counting overhead, etc..), gets you about 200,000 developers. This is much more than Debian - about 900 part time, plus another 50,000 part time for upstream (guesstimating). Very few full time developers in Debian or upstream.
Most people working for Debian or have software packaged in Debian are not writing it for money. Money is a big motivation factor especially since you need it to live.
The *resources* of Microsoft dwarf Debian, Redhat and Suse combined. Sorry, but that's reality.
What did you move on to?
I use Debian testing on my desktop for about ten years now and though it's a bit behind the curve on the latest releases the versions it contains are good enough and the packaging system and quality of packages are a major argument in favour of Debian.
You forgot to mention the open source / free software community. There are pretty many eyeballs out there that are able to submit new patches on issues they encounter.
200.000 developers? For Windows, the developers are taken hostage and unable to change anything. With the source, thousands can make their own changes and submit it back. I bet they dwarf the Microsoft developers in turn.
Hi,
:)
Until recently I used Debian stable at home on my notebook (took just about a week until everything worked), then upgraded to testing. At work I (have to) use fedora but sometimes boot ubuntu from live-CD when nobody's looking.
Fedora probably is a good example of a fast moving distro: Every half year you get a new "core" release and security updates are limited to 1.5 years (I think). And I hate it.
The reason: Within fedora too many packages are just not there. And when I allow additional sources/ foreign repositories I loose security updates and stability (eg. rpms from freshrpm sometimes don't seem to work or I can't find the ones for my core-release). I _much_ prefer having Debian's centrally supported 8000+ packages at my fingertips.
I wonder if _this_ is actually the reason why Debian moves so slowly: It supports _way_ more packages than other distros. I imagine it's much more difficult to coordinate 8000+ packages than to support 2000 packages and rely for the rest on developers from outside and on the users.
I've been using Sarge for couple of years as my personal desktop OS as well as on workstations in my Linux class.
On servers I run Debian Woody.
I use Debian because it has been the most stable, secure and bugfree Linux distribution. I've tested many of them, and I know that in some respect other distros are better than Debian.
My workstations are installed and used with graphical KDM login and KDE as the preferred desktop. Most machines are PIII:s with Ati's Display adapter, two with Nvidia:s chipsets.
The Good Things about Debian and especially Sarge:
- Sarge has proven to be very reliable.
- It has a lot more applications that many other distros
- It has quite new software (the desktop is only few months old)
- it's pretty easy to freeze sarge for internal use with using apt-mirror server
The Bad Things about using Sarge as Desktop
- selecting desktop in Taksel makes a Gnome desktop with KDM -> I need to install the desktop manually. Could Sarge ask for the desktop / window manager? That would be great.
- upgrading Sarge sets GDM and Gnome as default login manager and desktop. It's not fun to change this on 30 machines (Debian alternatives usability problem)
- weekly upgrading from Debian mirrors takes time and bandwith -> I must use local mirror and upgrade workstations myself because updates cannot be installed completely automatically
- upgrading broke X settings (a Sarge bug)
- using commercial display drivers is complicated
- many settings need to be changed in text mode (this is a bit difficult for my students)
- desktop and tools change from version to another, which confuses users
- desktop help system is inconsistent, and you cannot search help documents (KDE Help Center, this might be problem in Debian packages only)
- KDE version does not have HAL support -> using USB mass storage devices is complicated
- using floppies does not work in KDE: 'cannot determine filesystem type and none was specified' -> I use mtools instead
I've considered moving to followin distros, but came back for a reason or another:
- Gentoo: Compiling everythin is not an option for a enterprise style environment. You cannot install apache and wait for hours for it to install - the class would be over before the software would be ready to run
- Knoppix: Knoppix does not have an apt repository for upgrading and security updates. That and lack of software makes it not an option. Running Knoppix with mix of Debian apt sources is not reliable - done that, been there. Broke everything.
- Ubuntu: I prefer KDE -> not an option
- Kubuntu: Printing does not work from OpenOffice -> not usable, also lacks some software Debian offers and I need
I'm really looking forward to Sarge release. It is a very good desktop despite some minor problems.
As a Linux user, teacher and ethusiast I've asked myself the common question:
Is Linux (particulary Debian Sarge) ready for enterprise desktop?
My answer at the moment is 'Yes, but...' and since there are still several buts, to be perfectly honest it's not. I hope that it will be - for long term Debian is really the best choice for a Linux distro, but I hope that future Debian releases will come out on a bit shorter release time than Sarge. Once a year or once in two years, but three years is way too long.
I'd like to add another perspective to the speed of releases. Windows users are using (more or less) happily an OS that has been released years ago. Once we get Debian into the stage that it can be considered easy to use and it has good support for modern hardware, we don't have this kind of rush to release it. The complaints about length of Sarge release time are legitimate, but they also reflect the maturity of Debian. We have so many important (and cool) features that we must have the newest version of the software at our hands. If the OS is mature, it's not a problem to run 3 years old desktop.
None of you trolls get it.. Debian Sarge has been waiting for the security infrastructure. Now it's done on all architectures -> this is why debian is slow -they have so many archs. Sarge has been stable for ages with less than 100 release critical bugs. It's still up to date with gnome 2.8.3 and KDE 3.3 -that's good enough. If you are running a server you propably dont want desktops anyway - and if you want to ru debian stable on desktop, there is no reason why you couldn't use apt-pinning to get the desktop from testing or unstable. In less than a month we are going to have a hell of a stable release! I have been using testing ever since got broadband, but now i could even use the stable -atleast if I installed it on someone elses computer. Many people are still happy with windows 2000, so why couln't hey be happy with Sarge for the next 2 to 3 years (that's the worst case scenario of debian releases for me:)? I'm sure Sarge is more stable than most of other distros!
Debian-Installer
> I realize a lot of the posts here are in jest, but what's wrong with being a little slow on the release schedule?
The same as always: software aging (also termed "bit rot"). Look at woody (the last release), and you know what is wrong: standard kernel is 2.2 (therefore no support for most USB devices), XFree version 4.1 (good luck finding a graphics card that is supported), mozilla is version 1.0, openoffice.org is not even included, and KDE is still stuck at version 2 (which conflicts with version 3, so that you cannot run *any* KDE 3 application).
So whatever happens to sarge, it is going to be *way* to late. Plus sarge is not nearly up to date either. It is still based on XFree 4.3, and has no support for amd64. Which means it will be obsolet way before Etch can possibly be released.
It is a shame, because apt-get is so much superior to any rpm based solution I have seen. But unless you can run testing, Debian is not really an option on the desktop.
Well the moment i read sarger had been frozen it started playing in my head.
,hallelujah hallelujah .hallelujah It taken bloody years ,hallelujah hallelujah halle-lu-jah
To recap for those not fammilar with Handel's work the lyrics go like this almost.
hallelujah
hallelujah, hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallel-bloody-ujah
Finaly i can upgrade my server.. to run sarge
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
I've been running unstable for about a year now and it's been very robust and remarkably reliable. The easy route was to install Mepis and upgrade. The install is smooth, lasting about twenty minutes. The upgrade can be more or less smooth, so long as you have good download speeds for the 500 MB of new libraries and programs you get. Every now and then big chunks would go away for a while, but they always came back in a month or so. Major functions, networking, printing, X, console, and all that never stop working and the system as a whole remains stable. Upgrades once a month take some work, but it's doable. Current uptimes on the two machines I abuse this way are both over, Balmer's "insane" goal of 60 days and I don't expect them to go down unless the power fails.
Windows was way more trouble and I got much less out of it.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Best served cold.
deb ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main non-free contrib
Oh no!
:D
now I have to upgrade -again-
I remember downloading all seven CDs of Woody-i386 when I first got broadband -- that was when it was a brand-new release and I was running something like Slink or Potato on my connection-sharing box {then a '486}.
..... for about a week. Then I went over to Sid for KDE3, and never looked back. Just occasionally there have been disappointments with packages not quite working. Sometimes I've found the answer on Google; other times, Debian must have fixed it themselves because apt-get update && apt-get upgrade just worked. Of course, this is to be expected given that any file might be updated at anytime -- someone could be uploading a replacement for what you're downloading right at the same time. On my 64-bit box {pure64, a special flavour of Sid} I've done The Magic Commands twice in succession and got upgrades both times.
.....
When I acquired a notebook PC in '03, I installed Woody on it
Sarge is more than ready to go, by any other distro's standards. Debian just have very high ideals, is all -- and they aim to run on mainframes, minis and workstations, not just PCs. If there's something that won't work in one of the more esoteric architectures Debian support, then it will hold up the i386 and PowerPC releases. If for some reason you were running multiple architectures, would you rather have a distro that was inconsistent from one to another?
No doubt soon, I'll have to install Sarge on two heavily-used servers at work {some are already running it}. That'll be fun
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Stick a spoiler, alloys and tinted windows on a Reliant Robin(TM) and what do you get?
A Reliant Robin(TM). Oh yes.
So, I read this the morning after an update breaks my x server. Does this mean it's broken for good now?
Yeah, but back then XP was the latest thing, most of this sarge is ALREADY very very dated. Also Debian don't actually make any of the software themselves, they just put together a distribution. Microsoft had to actually write XP themselves.
Compared to other Linux distros, Debian is very slow. Other distros release much faster and with much more up to date software.
How do we let you know? Got an email or something?
Mods: I have some karma to burn-- mod me down for this if you must...
I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
As complex as some software is, especially the modern operating system and core tools, you often have to trade testing time for new features for stability.
The main gripe with Debian and the reason why Ubantu (sp?) was created was that Debian was taking too long. Stability didn't frankly matter as much as getting modern features inside of the system. Sure it is stable but other distros are encorporating tools and features that make Debian the most primative distro out there because of being stuck in a semi-frozen state for so long.
I believe there's a perceived misconception about open-source efforts that, by virtue of being open-source, every free software developer in the world must be working on that project. That's what I was getting at in the previous post (hence the "in theory" bit). Obviously, this is not the case, but it won't stop companies like Microsoft from purveying this idea in a way that's to their advantage.
"You and your third dimension."
See, the problem was that some Debian Developer packaged Hell(tm) for Debian and it some how got into Sarge. Then when Debian went to freeze Sarge, they ran into the age old problem of trying to freeze Hell(tm). I knew the smart people in Debian would eventually over come the difficulties of freezing Hell(tm), I'm just glad they were able to accomplish it finally.
Kudos to Debian for a job well done.
"We Don't Need No Truthless Heros!" - Project 86
that it would of actually beaten Longhorn to be the first to go gold.
Not all conservatives are stupid,
but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- Hume
...am I the only one reading the claims of apt-get being a good solution and thinking, "wtf?!"
...am I the only one realizing that as extremist zealot as most Linux geeks can be overall, the worst of the worst gravitate towards Debian or Gentoo?
...am I just imagining that Red Hat/Fedora Core support is something like five hundred times more widespread than Knoppix, Ubuntu, etc.?
Debian is its own worst enemy on two counts. First it has moved sloth-like using the wrong defense for the accusation. No one is seriously suggesting running it bleeding edge but that's what the adherents always scream is being claimed by detractors. The detractors are merely wanting it to be somewhat contemporary with the rest of the Linux world, which is isn't, and the amount of kludging over and around it that the distro builders do is testament to their intransigence.
Second is that they've if not actively encouraged, they've not actively discouraged the zealotry surrounding Debian and zealotry is a bad thing. It hasn't helped Microsoft to come clean about their idiotic practices that rub people the wrong way, it hasn't helped using it against Microsoft. It hasn't helped anywhere either for or against anything. So why keep on with it in Linux?
Some days, I wonder if the *nix world is still doomed by more of the same old same old and only Mac OSX, Red Hat, and Novel Suse reassure me in the slightest.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
I look at my 256MB 400MHz AMDK6II server (circa 1998) running woody which lets me stream all my mp3s to anywhere with an internet connection , rip cd's to mp3s , upload photos through a web interface and post them to a photo gallery for friends and family, download bittorrents, etc.. I could do this with fancier software (and hardware), but why should I? I'd be putting in more and not getting anything extra out. Debian Woody lets me do all the above with minimal effort. Are there other ways to do it? sure! But, for my needs (which admittedly are fairly simple and recreational) - I have found that it is the best (and easiest) solution.
MEPIS = Debian testing, + better hardware detection, + stuff like nVidia set up to work, + bootable CD and decent installer.
Unlike Ubuntu, you basically end up with a Debian system and can use all the Debian testing packages safely.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
... as hell has now frozen?
In related news...
Ford and Microsoft will build cars that can't crash
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
crikey! thats not right...
I wonder if this will lead to a sharp rise in Debian adoption over other distros.
With Woody hopelessly obsolete, testing's lack of timely security updates and unstable being too, well, unstable Debian hasn't been an option for the last two years for many server rooms.
Of course in a couple of years time we'll probably have the same problem again if the stable release rate doesn't pick up. Time will tell, I guess.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Wow. This was actually +6, Insightful. Thanks.