I don't disagree with you Bob. In fact, over at Channel9.msdn.com I made the point that this was looking more and more like Cairo - which is to say that they build it up, then ship something completely different. Windows SQL Server 2000.NET anyone:)
OTOH, the original post was saying that MS was just talking, and not doing anything. They're doing plenty (whether we need it or not), and they're marketing plenty more (which we don't need).
Anyway, time will tell what they ship.
How in the world did this ever get modded as Insightful? What is everyone smoking out there? Yes, parts of Longhorn smack of Cairo (anyone here know what that was about w/o going to Google?!), but they are already demoing the system, and have put it in the hands of pleny of people. Is it ready for prime time? Of course not. But that doesn't mean they're not doing anything. Yeesh.
A good KVM switch is a handy thing to have - the switches themselves aren't too expensive anymore, but the cables can add up.
However, if you do want to live without a KVM switch, Windows 2000 Server, Windows XP Pro and Windows Server 2003 support remote access right out of the box. Or, you can use VNC for access, but it is *much* slower.
Just thought I'd throw this out. Let's see if it ignites a flamewar:)
I just went to Real's site to see if they had kept it hidden there, and I'm surprised to say it's not hard to find at all. From the main page, click on the link to download RealPlayer 10, and on the next page, look on the right for the link to d/l the free version. Way better than the way they were before.
Bill Gates has been very clear for a long time that he intended to give most of his money/stock away. This has been the case since long before any of the MS legal problems started.
BTW: He didn't get the stock 'for free'. He built a company. It's not like it rained down from the heavens upon him.
Can you give an example of an OSS application that is the equivalent of Access? I'd love to look at it. Access does a tremendous amount of stuff, much of it very easily. I'm not a fan of it myself, but chances are that the hundreds of thousands of businesses that depend on it aren't all idiots.
Nah, I don't have a pro-logging bias, I just don't like the tone that came out of the post that I replied to that logging companies are out to log all the trees and then move on to something else (perhaps harvesting old homes for their wood?).
I've seen that the logging industry has done some awful things in the past. But you need to look at how many (most?) are running today. The environmental lobby has done some good in getting lumber co's to be better citizens.
As for your final paragraph, which basically says that cutting old growth forests is bad, well, can't really argue. My guess (uneducated for sure) is that most of the damage was done long in the past. Is much of that type of clearcutting still being done today? I'd be surprised...
Yeah, and they sold millions of them into homes? Hey, let's go way back - the Timex Sinclair of the early 80's was black! Everything since is just a copy:)
A myth? Wow, that must come as a surprise to the millions of trees that are planted yearly by lumber companies.
The lumber companies know that more land isn't being created, and if they cut down all the trees, well, um, they're going out of business. Most lumber companies aren't stupid enough to do that to themselves.
Perhaps what you are seeing are the farms. Fly over any farmland, and you'll see exactly what you're talking about.
A free lunch takes a few minutes to eat. Learning Linux or Windows from scratch can takes years to get competent. A bit of a difference there I would say!
You're right - you didn't claim that it was free. But you are throwing out something that actually isn't even related. No one else in this thread is saying that Windows costs $5000 either, except now you are I guess.
My whole point is that people keep claiming that Linux is 'free'. It isn't. I did not say that Windows is less expensive. What I did say was that I would be interested in knowing if a real 'non biased' analysis of the two different products was available and how would they compare then. At least if it came from an unbiased source, then the assumptions could be equally bad for both platforms, and maybe some sort of valid comparison could be found in there.
Hehe, reminds me of the Dilbert episode where Wally goes to prison expecting to be pampered with an Internet connection and marriage proposals, and instead ends up with a big burly prison buy using him as a pick-axe.:)
It could be, and my guess is that it would be that way since fewer patches would have to be applied. I wonder how well MS's SUS tool works in a real world environment for distributing patches versus some of the Linux solutions...
As for Gentoo - well, I don't know much about it, and don't want to right now. I like my OS's pre compiled, and easy to install:) Suse 9 is a great playground for me right now (I make my living on Windows though).
Absolutly it takes time to install and configure Windows and its millions of patches. MS knows it, and is trying to fix it. Just as the Linux distributions are working on making installation of new packages easy and reliable. Both sides are locked in a pitched battle.
I have been *very* impressed with the latest versions of Linux (Suse 9 in my case). However, I went to install Evolution, and after I got it installed (after a few failed attempts), I had no idea how to run it. No icon anywhere, and I was never told during the install where the files were going to be placed. Had to go out and Find the executable on the hard drive. This is something that would never happen in Windows. Installers always put stuff in menus (and all the good ones ask where to put it). This is the sort of thing that raises the costs of Linux.
I just get tired of hearing that Linux is free (beer).
Linux isn't free (as in cheap), unless YOUR TIME IS WORTH NOTHING.
I would like to see an unbiased TCO comparison between an 'easy-to-use' Linux (Suse perhaps - as opposed to Gentoo) versus Windows Server 2003 in a company. I don't think an exact comparison is possible, but one that's not sponsored by either 'team' would be worth a read...
To stay on-topic - most of the other points are valid, but they are valid for both open source and closed source code.
Standing on the shoulders of Giants? Don't get any bigger than MS. Go develop something in VS.NET. Enjoy the enormous framework that they have created for your use as a developer.
The USA *was* using steel tariffs. They were dropped right before they could be found illegal by the WTO.
Most nations, inluding the United States do use tariffs for various things. We're a long way away from a tariff free world.
You say that on a real level playing field, Windows doesn't stand a chance? Given that Linux and BSD are free, how much more level do you want it to be? One of the reasons Windows is still doing quite well for itself is that the switching cost is so high. Linux is *very* different from Windows, and that's both a good thing and a bad thing. Keep in mind that what China is doing is not creating a level playing field, but rather distorting it against Windows.
Exchange wouldn't have cost them anything more or less due to the virus outbreaks. The most recent ones are targeted at Windows, not Exchange. Even the older ones out there were targeted at Outlook, not Exchange.
Slashdot Mirror
Everytime a Windows XP system blue screens because of poorly written drivers... Oh, I'm sorry, you said 'reasonable'... :)
I don't disagree with you Bob. In fact, over at Channel9.msdn.com I made the point that this was looking more and more like Cairo - which is to say that they build it up, then ship something completely different. Windows SQL Server 2000.NET anyone :)
OTOH, the original post was saying that MS was just talking, and not doing anything. They're doing plenty (whether we need it or not), and they're marketing plenty more (which we don't need).
Anyway, time will tell what they ship.
How in the world did this ever get modded as Insightful? What is everyone smoking out there? Yes, parts of Longhorn smack of Cairo (anyone here know what that was about w/o going to Google?!), but they are already demoing the system, and have put it in the hands of pleny of people. Is it ready for prime time? Of course not. But that doesn't mean they're not doing anything. Yeesh.
This is Slashdot... what are the odds of that happening? :)
However, if you do want to live without a KVM switch, Windows 2000 Server, Windows XP Pro and Windows Server 2003 support remote access right out of the box. Or, you can use VNC for access, but it is *much* slower.
Just thought I'd throw this out. Let's see if it ignites a flamewar :)
I agree. I'm still scarred from my previous Real experiences.
I just went to Real's site to see if they had kept it hidden there, and I'm surprised to say it's not hard to find at all. From the main page, click on the link to download RealPlayer 10, and on the next page, look on the right for the link to d/l the free version. Way better than the way they were before.
I wouldn't use an MCSE as a programmer. An MCSD might begin to qualify though.
RTFA - lost 1000 sites, gained 3000 sites.
BTW: He didn't get the stock 'for free'. He built a company. It's not like it rained down from the heavens upon him.
Thanks.
I've seen that the logging industry has done some awful things in the past. But you need to look at how many (most?) are running today. The environmental lobby has done some good in getting lumber co's to be better citizens.
As for your final paragraph, which basically says that cutting old growth forests is bad, well, can't really argue. My guess (uneducated for sure) is that most of the damage was done long in the past. Is much of that type of clearcutting still being done today? I'd be surprised...
Yeah, and they sold millions of them into homes? Hey, let's go way back - the Timex Sinclair of the early 80's was black! Everything since is just a copy :)
Damn, so many lies, no line breaks...
The lumber companies know that more land isn't being created, and if they cut down all the trees, well, um, they're going out of business. Most lumber companies aren't stupid enough to do that to themselves.
Perhaps what you are seeing are the farms. Fly over any farmland, and you'll see exactly what you're talking about.
A free lunch takes a few minutes to eat. Learning Linux or Windows from scratch can takes years to get competent. A bit of a difference there I would say!
My whole point is that people keep claiming that Linux is 'free'. It isn't. I did not say that Windows is less expensive. What I did say was that I would be interested in knowing if a real 'non biased' analysis of the two different products was available and how would they compare then. At least if it came from an unbiased source, then the assumptions could be equally bad for both platforms, and maybe some sort of valid comparison could be found in there.
Hehe, reminds me of the Dilbert episode where Wally goes to prison expecting to be pampered with an Internet connection and marriage proposals, and instead ends up with a big burly prison buy using him as a pick-axe. :)
As for Gentoo - well, I don't know much about it, and don't want to right now. I like my OS's pre compiled, and easy to install :) Suse 9 is a great playground for me right now (I make my living on Windows though).
I have been *very* impressed with the latest versions of Linux (Suse 9 in my case). However, I went to install Evolution, and after I got it installed (after a few failed attempts), I had no idea how to run it. No icon anywhere, and I was never told during the install where the files were going to be placed. Had to go out and Find the executable on the hard drive. This is something that would never happen in Windows. Installers always put stuff in menus (and all the good ones ask where to put it). This is the sort of thing that raises the costs of Linux.
I just get tired of hearing that Linux is free (beer).
I would like to see an unbiased TCO comparison between an 'easy-to-use' Linux (Suse perhaps - as opposed to Gentoo) versus Windows Server 2003 in a company. I don't think an exact comparison is possible, but one that's not sponsored by either 'team' would be worth a read...
To stay on-topic - most of the other points are valid, but they are valid for both open source and closed source code.
Standing on the shoulders of Giants? Don't get any bigger than MS. Go develop something in VS.NET. Enjoy the enormous framework that they have created for your use as a developer.
Most nations, inluding the United States do use tariffs for various things. We're a long way away from a tariff free world.
You say that on a real level playing field, Windows doesn't stand a chance? Given that Linux and BSD are free, how much more level do you want it to be? One of the reasons Windows is still doing quite well for itself is that the switching cost is so high. Linux is *very* different from Windows, and that's both a good thing and a bad thing. Keep in mind that what China is doing is not creating a level playing field, but rather distorting it against Windows.
Just my .02
I believe that the money bought MS stock in Apple, which was sold pretty promptly.