Slashdot Mirror
Ballmer On Microsoft's Search Goofs
An anonymous reader writes "AP reports on CEO Steve Ballmer's regret over Microsoft's failure to get into the search market early on. Best quote? 'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.' Nice to see they're still user-oriented."
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad," he said.
So, does not the recent 600 some odd millions dollar fine by the EU suggest anything to these guys? The USDOJ let them off the hook, but the rest of the world is proving not to be as forgiving. Perhaps they should be a little more humble?...........Nah.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Sounds like my kind of search engine!
I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
from ballmer on microsoft's goofs, to balmer acting like a goof
I can counter that by saying, "I will make sure I never have an online experience again!"
Suckers.
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through
They still don't get that to compete, not just with Open Source, you need quality products, not saturation advertising.
Trolling is a art,
Welcome(tm) to the MSinternet as envisioned by Steve Balmer. Don't forget to be a good person and buy some MS stuff!
'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.'
And that is exactly why MSN Search will never be bigger than Google.
BTW, timothy, just so you know - when inserting a clarifying phrase into a quote, one encloses it in square brackets and not normal brackets.
yea, because what ceo would want you looking at their company's ads...
'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.'
I figured that the submitter hacked part of that quote out of the middle, only to find out the original article had it posted that way too!
And the pictures! I usually don't think of Steve Ballmer as evil (just the company he works for), but those pictures make him almost look menacing and demonic.
"Mwa ha ha ha...all your base are belong to us! Now give me your money, and here's your yearly upgrade of office. When's your first born due?"
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Happy Trails!
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
Billy Mac, of Mac trucks, had this to say:
... a busy highway without getting hit by a Mac truck."
"I want to make sure (Steve Ballmer) can't get through
Setec Astronomy
I can pretty much guarantee that I'll see one on Slashdot every other story.
Well, in this "search engine war", they will have much stronger (actual) competition than in the browser war.
I plan to plan / Dutch course in The Hague
Like Bhopal was people oriented :)
Like Chernobyl was life oriented
Like Slashdot is normal person oriented
And like soap is smell oriented
I'm amazing. You aren't. SUCK IT
Microsoft is *the* company to maximize the user experience. It's hard to believe they won't crush Google and the competition as they did with Netscape , and the way they're handling the game console market. Look at MSN, for instance, it's a wonderfully designed website, Google can't match it. And Microsoft has Hotmail and Passport to attract users, something that Google doesn't have too. The upshot: Microsoft will win again. Good for us users!
The poster is taking that quote a little bit out of context. All Ballmer is really saying is that they are spending a lot of money on advertising. Assuming that you will see ads anyway, there is nothing wrong with him saying "I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad." If you were to substitute Linux for Microsoft in that quote, would anybody here really object (unless they object to all advertising on principle)?
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.
Well, don't think this behaviour is exclusive to Microsoft. Every CEO and Marketing exec is saying exactly the same thing, and have been for years. Everyone wants their ad where the user is.
Can someone say "unhealthy obsession"?
Fanaticism? Jealousy? Envy? Mod me to -1 and take my pain away.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Why stop there with a user seeing an ad, why dont microsoft take vertical control of the market, and make it so that the computer is microsoft, the electricity is microsoft, and while at it add binary code too
30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
Score:5, Troll
Microsoft's Ballmer has been known to augment "mistakes" to make it appear that the company has an "aw shucks gee whiz" normal company appearance. What isn't well known is that in 1998 when MSN was upgrading, Ballmer was spearheading a special internal group codenamed "Anser Albifrons" to look into search technology for embedded Windows CE. And this was BEFORE google and altavista.
Beware the purring tiger, that's what I always say.
Ohura
already making sure a user can't get through a Microsoft experience without hitting an online ad.
" But Microsoft is now turning its considerable might toward catching up. It's a move that puts Microsoft head to head with Google, the world's most popular Web surfing vehicle, and Yahoo, the Internet's most popular destination, in what many see as an important, growing and lucrative market.
"I think you'll see some good competition in this area," Ballmer said. "
I'm not saying this is impossible, new things come up all the time, and users have no loyalty, they'll switch to whatever is easiest, but the problem with MS and Yahoo! is that they simply won't be as good as Google, Google is fast, simple, it loads fast, has good search results, once again I think both MS and Yahoo! will be focusing on good results, and, while a major thing, it is not everything, their pages will still be full of advertisements, long loads, and anything but simple.
Having said that I hope there will be a rival to Google, I've found Teoma and ZapMeta to be pretty good, and both going for the simple look.
--- I'll finish this after my cig. break
Even if they integrate this with Longhorn or xp SP2, people won't use "add based searching" when they can go to google.
don't you think Ballmer kinda looks like an evil Dr. Phil?
from the at-least-that's-honest dept.
The editors should at least make mention of the MS money that funds this site. Money that allows (and fosters) rabid anti-MS and open source hippy groupthink.
At least that's honest.
If the Internet is a religion, Google is its sacred text. Neither Microsoft, nor any other company, must be allowed the power to control the way we find information on the Web. We're lucky the creators of Google are as smart as they are good at repelling the urge to defile search results a la Yahoo, AOL, or MSN.
Apart from the wheely mouse (which I think HP invented), I can't think of *any* technologies that Microsoft got into early on. They missed TCP/IP, networking in general, the net (and the browser), etc.
Of their successes, with the honorable exception of their OS (copied from DR and then Apple) and their office suites (which they copied from, was it Lotus?), it's all been dubious business practices... Very successful company though they are, they are in no way innovative. Innovative isn't necessary for a monopolist position, and in fact is a bad business strategy - you might waste loads of cash, and you've got nothing to lose by preserving the status quo...
So it's just pure 100% Balmer, again...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.'
That's gotta be a mood killer for people surfing pr0n.
if the U.S. went socialist, would advertising still be around?
Or is "Mac Trucks" some pickup shop in Dirtbag, Iowa?
As it is is people criticize Google severly for political issues, ad placing, lawsuits on pagerank etc. Google does a very good job. Could we trust Microsoft to deliver honest search results without manipulating them to serve their own capitalistic interests? They stand to gain (a lot) by controlling the main source that people go to search for info on the WWW.
Linux Resources
This is no different than Microsoft's usual business tactics; enter a market where there are strong competitors, and use your ubiquity to promote your own agenda. I won't be surprised if in the new version of windows the 'CTRL + ENTER' trick to enter the www. and .com in the address bar suddenly brings up and MSN search isntead of what you were looking for. [Incredifind anyone?] The only thing is I doubt they will be able to get really good footing with the Google-naut in the fray. Unless of course they lose their 'Page Rank' copyright lawsuit.
On a side note, the only time I actually though Microsoft's product was better was the IE vs. Netscape wars. I used to use netscape but then IE got better. I don't see that happening here.
If you click Microsoft's ads does Microsoft have to pay more?
In a world without walls and fences (internet), we don't need Windows and Gates.
Diego
diegoT
thanks to proxomitron, i am beyond your evil clutches ...
This will solve more problems than one. Really. If Microsoft makes everyone's online experience the digital equivalent of being pestered by sales calls 24 times a day, on the hour, every hour, then maybe people like myself will turn off the computer, get up, go outside, and get some more exercise, loose weight, defeat the obesity scare, live longer and have a social life! ...or, realistically, develop better ad-blocking software.
Who am I kidding.
Though it would be funny to see what ads would pop up when searching for "Windows XP 2004 Server Keygen"
If MSN Newsbot is any indication of their upcoming competition with Google and their excellent news page, I wouldn't worry just yet. I have tried using MSN Newsbot but abandoned it because of lack of content and mismatches between the article text and pictures, some of them ridiculous. They cannot even copy the concept with a decent level of quality. Note that both news services are currently in beta.
It's no wonder they're behind in the search engine wars. Nobody wants to be intruded with ads they don't care about. I shouldn't get an ad for the newest version of Office when I'm looking up one of my favorite bands. And if I do get that ad I don't want it to be bigger and placed in front of my search results.
I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
However, they also absolutely cleaned up once they caught on. MSN, in conjunction with their WebTV service, has grown to become a leading contender. Internet Explorer is the best and most compatible web browser. And Media Player is poised to potentially overrun Apple's iTunes as a means of offering not only music but movies on demand.
I wouldn't view this as a goof. They observe the people on the cutting-edge and provide better services while avoiding the pitfalls the early-adopters fall into. Linux users would do well to take notice and avoid resting on their laurels, because Windows seems to be getting better faster than X-Windows. If Microsoft doesn't make a success out of their search engine venture, I'll be shocked.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
But Microsoft is now turning its considerable might toward catching up. It's a move that puts Microsoft head to head with Google, the world's most popular Web surfing vehicle, and Yahoo, the Internet's most popular destination, in what many see as an important, growing and lucrative market. (Boldification mine)
Heh. Most popular? Nice to see that on Yahoo! News. (Although, being on yahoo may or may not have nothing to do with it since apparently it was written by an AP Business Writer)
Or maybe Yahoo! is the Internet's most popular destination, but I never knew that before. :P
This is just in keeping with the idea that it's more profitable to advertise heavily than to improve your product or make it cheaper. For most durables we buy, the actual production costs are very low in comparison with the retail price; the surplus is eaten up by the cost of selling the product to us.
I am glad that there are search engines like Google that don't annoy me with ads. I can't imagine having to ask "Clippy" the best site for pRon.
... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad,"
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through
This does it for me, its time to find a new OS!
Did I really just read that?!?
The Dalai LLama
A watched post never gets modded...
My sig could be your sig!
I rue the day that you can't even get through slashdot without seeing some kind of "Buy Microsoft Software at www.microsoft.com" ad.
.
.
.
Damn!
The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.'
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely why Microsoft has always failed and always will fail at anything internet-related. They just can't help themselves; their entire business model is focused on using every single trick possible to lock people in. For Microsoft, evilness is ok if it locks in more people.
Fortunately for us, Microsoft, despite their desperate attempts, does not own the browser, or the web and can't lock us in how hard they try.
Bye, bye Microsoft. It's been nice knowing you.
I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.
Sounds like the online experience I'm having right now as I type this message.
Go tablet PC go!
Search: Linux
i d= kb;en-us;314458
/ un ix/tco.asp
m l
........"
results 4
1.)http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?sc
"How to remove Linux and install WindowsXP
2.)http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/migrate
"Linux more expensive to operate then Windows"
3.)http://www.sco.com/scosource/linuxlicense.ht
"Linux contains SCO Unix intellectual property
4.)http://www.linuxsucks.com"
"Boy those guys at Microsoft sure know how to make great products
http://saveie6.com/
and now they've missed search engines...it really
makes me wonder: man, what kind of idiot is at the
helm?
btw, notice that he's pushing for companies to
increase their online advertising by several HUNDRED
PERCENT. why? maybe he's trying to stave off loss
of revenue as people migrate...
j
I want to make sure Steve Balmer can't get through a doctor's visit/border crossing/stop light without getting a full rectal exam.
BlackNova Traders
Even with the EU ruling against them for bundling Windows Media Player with the OS, they could go ahead and tie in their search engine and it will be years before the appeal of the EU case is completed.
Even though the ruling already happen, with the length of an appeal (7 years according to some estimates), it could be too little too late on search engine bundling . . .
IE became the most popular browser primarily because you couldn't avoid it on any installation of Windows. Netscape, by contrast, you had to download, install, and -- in theory -- pay for.
Many Windows users will think it's too much to type in google.com and hit enter before they do a search, so Microsoft will once again use its monopoly to ruin a great product. Just like IE. Just like Windows Media. Just like Office. Just like Windows itself.
Remember, Microsoft's OS monopoly is so undermining precisely because Windows is the only thing most of the great unwashed computer users will ever see, and Microsoft controls what they see on that Windows computer. Well let's enjoy Google while it's still in business :-(
If it's not one thing it's your mother.
'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.'
Yeah, that's what's wrong with my web experience - not enough MS adds. For crying out loud, you even see them on Slashdot! Apparently a nearly-universal presence isn't enough - they're going for Shock and Awe.
I never used to care much about Microsoft and their company, one way or the other, good or bad. I have Windows on one of my computers and never had much to complain about. But, I don't want to constantly encounter Microsoft ads. Now they seem to be bullies and the want and want and want more. I don't want Microsoft to control everything. I don't want the internet to belong to Microsoft. However, this seems to be their direction, their attitude. And it sucks.
'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through
Two words: "F*CK OFF !!!"
Your ads are gay and your products SUCK. People flying through the air for XP? Some guy in a butterfly suite for MSN are just totally bent (really gay). How much did you pay for this sh*t? Grade 2 kids could come up with better stuff than that spew.
- getting more and more really ticked at MS
Just imagine if they had succeeded.....How much would the EU have fined them!
And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)
And here's the real reason they are pissed at the EU decision. The only way they can compete is to bundle it with the OS, and the only way they can do that is to integrate it with the OS.
I smell another antitrust case brewing up.
That last quote in the article is wierd, IT'S A YAHOO TROLL!!
Seriously, it doesn't attribute that quote to anyone, it just sort of ends the article. Also whenever you see "..." in a quote it means something important was cut out and the quote is wrong (this is common when advertising movies for example).
I'm not trying to defend Steveio I just think it's a lame way to end an article.
Serious, this is the funny quote I like:
"That's probably the thing I feel worst about over the last few years -- not making our own R&D investment," Ballmer said at a conference for online advertisers held at Microsoft's Redmond campus. "
COME ON! 75% of their software is developed by outside companies, then Microsoft just buys them out. I think he should have said "The worst thing is, we waited so long to aquire google, now it's extremely over-priced for us".
Mod +5 Drunk
REDMOND, Wash. - When Microsoft Corp. entered the Internet browser war in the 1990s, Netscape Navigator was the early leader and Microsoft's Internet Explorer the late-blooming upstart.
Now, Microsoft is gearing up for a similar brutal and pointless battle in search technology.
Chief executive Steve Ballmer conceded Thursday that one big misstep by Microsoft over the past few years is that the company did not put resources toward the 'embrace and extend' - Microsoft's term for wholesale copying and stealing - of search technology.
"That's probably the thing I feel worst about over the last few years -- not destroying a small competitor in a wave of litigation and threats," Ballmer said at a conference for online advertisers held at Microsoft's Redmond campus, as sunlight bounced off his fat bald head.
Instead, he said, the company had kind of assumed that it would be fun to wait for a while to see what ideas others came up with, before stealing them. Joking that the pervasive software giant is often stereotyped as "a bunch of blood-sucking vampires" he said: "This is a case where we didn't destroy it all -- and I wish we had."
But Microsoft is now turning its considerable might toward catching up. It's a move that puts Microsoft head to head with Google, the world's most popular Web surfing vehicle, and Yahoo, the Internet's most popular destination, in what many see as the next depressing confirmation that there is nothing that can be achieved that Microsoft won't wreck with some awful code, a stack of ripped-off eyecandy and several billion dollars worth of marketing.
"I think you'll see some blood on the wheel in this area," Ballmer said.
Ballmer mentioned the European Union (news - web sites)'s ruling against Microsoft only in passing, when asked about rumors the company may be making some big acquisitions. He said he hadn't heard that; he'd been too busy paying attention to rumors coming out of Europe, as he made bunny ears with his fingers.
The European Commission (news - web sites) slapped Microsoft with a $613 million fine Wednesday for abusively wielding its near monopoly in desktop operating systems and ordered sanctions that go well beyond the company's antitrust settlement with the United States. The company has vowed to raise an army of the undead, to destroy the continent in a reign of fire, to sow its fields with salt and leave no stone atop another, pending an appeal by its lawyers.
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad," he said.
X10 had this amazing new technology for years, didn't they? Let's hope Microsoft delves into this pursuit deeply and ends up with the same result as the X10 people did...
sig.
Hell, even Bill Gates likes Apple.
http://saveie6.com/
Their research is listed as 7 billion, I'd be interested to know what their advertising budget is.
/. anti-MS poster, think about it : if they spent 1/10 of their advertising budget on a code audit, you and I wouldn't have to spend 10-30 minutes a day deleting viruses from our inbox, courtesy of some window-licking tard in sales.
Probably an order of magnitude higher.
And before someone shits on me for being a typical
But, on the other hand, the words Broken By Design(tm) come to mind.
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
"Why is this so important?" asked Peaches Kobbler, reporterette for High Times magazine.
"Visibility," said the phlegmy chief executive. "There might yet be tribal elders hidden in some lost corner of the South American jungle who has not yet heard of Microsoft. We need to subver- er, we need to reach those valued potential customers."
"Do jungles have corners?" asked Alia Bambara, reporter for the Pony Fetish Monthly.
"What do you know, worm?!" shouted Ballmer, the spittle showering people as far away as the Denny's dumpster. "We will dominate all markets. Do you understand me, bitch? You will all be our bitches!"
"Aren't you just trying to be annoying?" asked Enrico Cartmano from the Mexico City Daily Sombrero.
"Com'ere, you!" said Ballmer, and proceeded toi chase Cartmano around the parking lot with a tire iron that Ballmer has somehow hidden in his pants.
--- Ban humanity.
Microsofts entry into the search engine market is just part of capatilism. After their settlement with the DOJ Microsoft can no longer pressure OEM's into preloading Microsoft with the options Microsoft would prefer. If by some chance Microsoft is able to take over the search engine market it won't be based on some sort of evil monopolistic plan or because they are soo well known because Google gets more hits than any other web site. Put your tin foil hats back on and stop worrying.
I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.
Considering the number of Microsoft ads that crowd my Slashdot experience, isn't this already happening? Fortunately I can run click the "Block images from this server" button and enjoy a relatively popup- and ad-free experience.
Now if only they could have a "Block nauseating flash animations from this server" button.
Imagine searching for "google" or "linux" and a minute later your important files are missing.
Go Google Go
Opera Watch - An Opera browser blog.
But I thought search engines was about finding information, not ads...
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through
has nothing to do with the search engine, I do think his priorities are misaligned. It would be OSO nice if it read that he orders his staff to "make a decent product, first and foremost."
But then again, they try to "saturate" their product with "good" features that no one uses too...
Online Experience amounts to:
use WWW: we all know about those adds
use Email: this is mostly spam
use P2P services: download WinXPsource.tar
use Internet radio: hear a MS jingle every 20mins
use ping: an echo request always gets a response from target and youpinged.microsoft.com
use nslookup: nameserver defaults to ournames.microsoft.com
Naw I don't like his idea but this is nothing new.
As long as it runs Microsoft products, I dont see why they wouldnt.
If I'm not mistaken, Steve was referring to an entirely different subject when talking about the ads. He was talking about companies using their advertising budgets wisely, not the fact that he wishes he had google so he could blast Microsoft ads everywhere as the majority of the posters seem to believe.
Does this mean we'll start seeing MS pop-ups, interstitials and spam? "Click here to ENLARGE your DANCING MONKEY BOY with MS Windows XP!!!!"
Which was inferior to the free Mosaic browser which the government funded.
...if he considers bluescreens and error messages as ads.
Ooooh those dastardly Microsoft fellows, in the computer business to make money! How dare they impede on our God given right to the internet?! Don't tread on us Microsoft!
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
After all, who knows more about goofs than Steve "Tech stocks, including Microsoft, are overvalued!" Balmer!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
thanks a lot bill for making the free market look so bad. Sheesh. To think of all the cool shit Bill Gates could do with 50 billion dollars. He could make robot servants or racing spaceships he could waste it all on scientific cool progress stuff. he could have changed the world and earned immortality. think about it, what would you do if you had that kind of potential? Would you proceed to make a grey and white arial fonted boring ass self advertising agency that tweaked powerpoint every couple years? hell no, hell no. I hope somebody in here is the next big programming marketing mogul, wouldnt surprise me. When you get done with that innovation and you are super rich... Do some some cool stuff with the money. I mean, by all means keep 10 mill in your sock drawer, but use the billions on robots. Space robots. Bill Gates could fund his own Nasa, and I wonder if he could have made a little money too
They'll probably release a MSN toolbar that is a feature-for-feature copy of the Googlebar, and automatically install it on the next Windows Update. Maybe on "accident" is uninstalls the original Google toolbar (Cough*netscape*Cough). Make all URL line searches and mistypes go to MSN, and remove the ability to choose your default search engine.
They don't have to make the "world's greatest," they just have to make something that is competitively passable, and is deeply hooked into their existing product line. The "Internet Search" in the file search bar is already inexorably linked to MSN...
The ______ Agenda
M$ gets sued for including a browser in it's OS, then it gets slapped with a heavy fine for including a media player in its OS. Now M$ is going to try to out-position google by including a search engine in the OS?
This seems like exactly the type of behavior that the EU will shut them down again for, don't they learn? Then again I guess they could just release the search engine in the US version since our govt doesn't give a shit about consumers.
Spybot-S&D has blocked the download of "Microsoft Ad Generator"!
Remember when Microsoft first scoffed at the internet as a whole, and then finally got in the act with their cute little "Internet Explorer" browser? Remember how we all laughed at them, and pointed at how much better Netscape was? I mean, Netscape Navigator 3.01 vs. IE 2.0 and 3.0. Think about it... then IE did infact become the better browser. Now we finally have the new Mozilla and Firefox and while they are again superior products (I can't stand not having tabs) the game is over.
Are we now doing the same thing with search engines? It's like MS is late to the party again and we're too busy laughing at the car they came in to notice that they are eating all of our food.
Casual Games/Downloads
...screenwriters who get paid to write funny shit. Ballmer offers it to teh public for free. And while I admire his candor, one has to realize it's mostly by accident.
People like Gates and Ballmer do not represent the free-market. They represent the form of crony-capitalism that represents a free-ride at the expense of competition and cluefulness. At least every once in a while we can get them to admit that...
The worst part is the timing, so short on the heels of getting a ballpunch by the EU they are blabbing at the gums about what they intend to want next to attarct another lawsuit.
Is there some sort of psychological predisposition among geeks to despise marketoids? Sell sell sell, lies lies lies, bottom line is the only thing that matters -- we hates it, don't we precious?
I understand the need to sell a product and to make a living off of something but DAMN! When you're part-time freelancing web work, you tend to meet a few marketeers along the way. I did a freebie personal site for someone once who dragged a friend over to me only to ask "ok, so how do we make money off of it?" Arrrrgh!
Then there's people who don't care what kind of info they have on the site as long as it's branded and linked to something that sells.
As for Microsoft -- well, we all know their marketing department seems to overpower their quality assurance department. I guess this is part of the reason I'm not thrilled with them. I'm sure I'm not alone in this either.
So, is this thing against marketeers a manifestation of the Cathedral vs. Bazaar way of thinking? Academic information sharing vs. having to sell your soul for shoddy products?
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through
He's not talking about the online experience a user gets from searching a current or future microsoft search engine technology... read the previous 2 one-sentence-paragraphs and you'll see that he's clearly talking about microsft advertising their products and services ELSEWHERE as they do now... he's talking to a crowd of online advertisers so it's about microsoft benefitting others, it all makes sense... also keep in mind that the butchered half-quote is within an article posted on a rival website that's according to the article stands to lose from microsoft future search efforts... yahoo! I think it's naughty of them to spin things to confuse people.
Microsoft is that Basset Hound. You hit them with fines, tell them to stop force feeding bundling....and 6 minutes/weeks/months later, there they are doing it again.
"Would you like to buy a brand new car??!!" "Sure" "GREAT!!! OK, but you have to promise to get your financing and insurance from GMAC, and you can never take it to a 3rd party mechanic. Oh!!! And you have to buy our gas to refill it." "what if you stop selling that type of gas" "Oh, well, we wont support your vehicle anymore and you'll have to buy a new one. Oh, and no $$ for your trade in...ok, maybe a few dollars". Gee thanks...
I cringe with every new market they enter and hope like hell they pull out. Stick to crappy OS'.
Since Ballmer comes up so often, why doesn't he have his own Slashdot Icon.
n key_musi c.mp4p es.jpg ;-)
How about one of these:
http://www.msboycott.com/media/ballmer_mo
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/a
Well, don't think this behaviour is exclusive to Microsoft. Every CEO and Marketing exec is saying exactly the same thing, and have been for years. Everyone wants their ad where the user is.
Luckilly for those of us who haven't completely devolved, and remain nominally human, we have the ability to eliminate nearly all pestering ads.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Ballmer said Microsoft spends about 12 percent of its media budget on online advertising, and that he orders his staff to "saturate" that market first and foremost.
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad," he said.'
Which is somewhat different from that implied by the submitter; rather than Microsoft wanting to dominate search space, and slapping their ads on everything, it's actually a suggestion that online advertising can be effective, and that companies should spend more of their marketing budget online.
Given the dearth of funding models for many websites, I'm amazed that people are willing to twist an attempt to get more money into advertising online as something more evil.
And people worry about google skewing results... I can see it already:
Your search - linux - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "linux"
Dude, you KNOW you just gave M$ a to-do list for IE, right?
'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through .. an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.'
Atleast he's honest about planning to be the number one cause of popups around the net...
this is probably the most boring sig in the world
I live in the EU and I simply can't wait until Microsoft has to pay more ``taxes`` as a result of this :-).
The software titan also has said that better search technology will be a big part of the next version of its dominant Windows operating system
Oh come on, not again. What happened to "three strikes". Can we not just hurry up sling those guys in gaol, nothing else seems to work?
-- Free software on every PC on every desk
The quote in the blurb is taken totally out of context. It's presented as a way to convince the reader that Microsoft intends to do the following:
1.) Create a search engine that will be popular enough to rival Google.
2.) Create a method of forcing users to view unending advertisements each time they search, click, blink, etc.
3.) Profit unendingly.
What Ballmer was referring to was the amount of money Microsoft spends on advertising. He was using hyperbole to explain that many companies only spend 1% of their budget on advertising, and they should bring that up to 4-5%. He then said that when he gives money to his advertising people, he wants them to spend a metric shitload of it on online advertising, thus when people browse the web, even if they're not visiting Microsoft sites, they see Microsoft advertising.
He's not talking about abusing their own search engine to display ads but rather about spending their own money on advertising in the hopes it will net them more money.
That's not to say that I don't believe Microsoft deliberately manipulates their current search results and will continue to do so in the future in whatever incarnation their search engine may take, and it's not to say that I don't think Microsoft is a horrible company that breaks the law as much and as far as they can and that they need to be broken up in order to stop them from abusing the market any further, and finally it's not to say that they're not contributing to the downfall of capitalism and democracy and society as it is known for much of the Western world, but Jesus, if you're going to play ball, play fair. Only companies like Microsoft play unfair, and that's fucking wrong , and you can't say out one side of your mouth "Microsoft isn't playing fair!" and say out the other "Steve Ballmer rapes horses, with the dead bodies of children!"
Don't try to subvert truth like some neocon on a power trip.
or does Ballmer's quote sound like "Ms. Couric, the only thing I find wrong with this interview is that I have not yet had butt-sex with your mother"?
It's like the scariest thing most people could hear. If Microsoft doesn't burn your retinas for a few seconds after each click on a link he's not doing his job. That's scary on so many levels.
If you take things in context, what Ballmer is saying is that companies are not advertising enough online even though that's where the eyballs are going.
/., you'll see MSFT ads.
He's talking about the fact that microsoft is spending a lot more on online advertising. Heck, even if all you read is
Here's the actual article's text:
Wants to make sure I can get through an online experience with no ads at all.
I luv you, adblock!
What were you expecting?
MSN vs google.
What's interesting to note, is MS actually throws up a pretty useful page. Tutorials, links to the most popular distros, particularly with beginners. If someone who knew something about linux decided to search for information on it, no doubt they'd be more specific. But if one was looking for very basic information, MSN returns a very good set of links.
Google, of course the gold standard. They return 95 million results to 415. But since I wasn't going to read anywhere near 415, that is in a practical sense actually the same amount. And again, a nice page. Links mostly to the popular distros. Google does have it's news partner links, which is one up on MSN.
But looking at the MSN page, they have a little be broader view, than just distros or news to get you started. Both return good first pages, but I'd gice the edge to MSN on this one.
And Page 2.
Well MSN just stomps Google here. That first page was pretty close, mostly identical in fact. But WOW. Could I improve my proportion of relevant links in Google by killing the international sites? Sure. But really, in importance of reducing the number of steps can't be overstated.
On this metric, MSN pretty soundly beats out google. If I want generic linux info, the kind that I might want just searching for "linux" MSN is the way to go.
So shouldn't we start talking about Google's anti-linux bias?
Oh, and from my browser's about page, in the interests of full disclosure:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007
In the 7 billion they plan to spend on search technology, I hope they spend some money on fixing win XP's search within file option. For me, it sporatically works. I often have to use a windows 2000 box over the network to search an XP drive in order to "search within file".
Two reasons why people tend to prefer their search engine isn't the wing of some IT giant. They want quality results, hopefully without too much commercial advertising and bias. People use such engines to search for information on various subjects, not so they can be bombarded with advertising, such a search engine would be doomed to failure.
Why would Microsoft (with its vast budget) add annoyances like adverts to their search engine when it would be accepted more by its users if it was ad-free. After all they could have made IE ad-ware but chose to charge nothing for it.
Check out Dan Gillmor's tongue-in-cheek missive about the recent European ruling.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Macboy *really* needs to get a life.
I tell you, buy a Microsoft penis enlargment kit, and you'll increase in size by this amount in one day.
One World, One Party, One Operating System
When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you
A lot of bad things can happen to a company using non-windows Operating Systems, you know. We wouldn't want that to happen now would we?
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, we've got a customer who doesn't want to renew their software licenses. What are we going to do?
Funny comment on how we should phone balmer everytime we see an ms add
When I saw the title "Microsoft's Search Goofs" I naively thought they might be apologizing for deliberately redirecting any searches for "xfree86" to porn.
Alas, I was not surprised to learn that they just want to send MORE ads our way.
MS has a long way to go before they can build a search engine that replaces Google in my regular use, especially if one of the main features of said engine is to send as many Microsoft ads at the consumer as possible. I use Google for its effectiveness and minimalistic site design. No popups, obtrusive banner ads, or flash ads to piss me off.
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!" -Rush
"Hmm,
, ..."
Ever since I downloaded that MS Critical Security Update for IE,
I get 'page not found' when typing in 'www.google.com'.
Go Figure?"
Doh!
The DOJ should have read the EULA before clicking INSTALL:
"One Nation,
Under Microsoft
Embracing and Extending for All
Could this actually be a prelude to including some form of adware in Windows? That would certainly fill that goal he has set for Windows users...
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
The 600 mil is nothing to M$, but what *IS* something to Microsoft is the EU's ruling that Microsoft can charge fees to use the APIs. The EU decision is a WIN for Microsoft.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Honestly, I almost think it is a good thing that Microsoft is joining the search engine fray. I have several reasons for this, but primarily, the first one is that search engine technology has seemed a big stagnant. Take Google, for example. With a great many websites participating in feeding search engines Spider Food, it is more difficult to find results that actually match what you are looking for. If microsoft manages to boost this, and cause a stream of activity in fixing these issues by providing a high powered level of competition, then I think its great.
Now, this does not mean I am advidly supporting Microsoft. This just means I'm supporting the addition of another wild card to the search engine battles that might have some good come out of it.
I certainly hope so at anyrate, as using Google gets to be more difficult with each passing day.
-- RJ
Really, what's wrong with this? Isn't it every companies responsibility to market itself? And, doesn't that mean getting your marketing material in front of your target customers? What's the bitch here?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
AFAIK, they were groundbreaking leaders in bringing certain conveniences to email clients, such as double-clicking on an attachment, causing it to execute.
Prior to Microsoft, nobody had ever thought to do such [euphemisms coming up] .. inspired and visionary things. Indeed, most of their competitors still haven't dared to even try matching these features.
Another one: They got the brilliant idea of taking an Apple menu, moving it to the bottom the screen so that it's slightly slower to get to, and then moving it up by one or two pixels, so that if you slam your mouse pointer against the edge and then click, you will still manage to miss the menu, so you have to carefully adjust upwards a little, and then click, if you want to hit the hotspot. That tiny little offset of just a few pixels, is an innovation where Microsoft not only led for years, but most of their competition still hasn't matched them.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
seriously. I have noticed the *large* amount of ads starting sometime in late 2001.
Spend all you want, I can always click more.
Still am not going to buy another Microsoft product again. Will I use them? Sure, as long as somebody else pays for it.
Blogging because I can...
in the shower singing the theme songs to 60's sit-coms. The "joy" of belonging to the same health club as MS. BTW, he is tone-deaf and I may have bad dreams for months.
Always reset every Windows workstation you work on to another default home page...:-)
sig mind freed
...Windows 2003 Server?
sig mind freed
.. that the /. ad showing (no mozilla here today :( ) is for google.
http://adblock.mozdev.org/
Did shamino0 slip a joke in there?
if I search on "Balmer's monkey dance", what would I get?
Where does Microsoft find these turkeys? Every time Ballmer opens his mouth something stupid comes out.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
The MSN search engines widely noted (@slashdot) filtering of XFree86 seems to be turned off! Now it even returns the www.xfree86.org page as the first hit! Maybe the negative attention it got them got their PR team to decide it wasn't worth it.
Just curiously, why would the software giant need to advertise? I presume that it would be the only company that has true world-wide penetration. Just about everybody knows of Microsoft and what products they make. Those that don't know only recently emerged from their cave.
Advertising the more specialist stuff they make to the Joe User when he searches for his favorite band's webpage doesn't make sense either. The people that want to use that have a specific need and would know about it through other means anyway.
So I fail to see the point of them advertising. Those that don't use MS selected alternative software for a reason. Presumably they won't switch to a MS product just because they know it exists.
Just my $0.02 + GST
I drink to make other people interesting!
Ballmer's such a pig - and an ugly pig.
What most of us want is an environment - and a life - where we're never reminded that Microsoft even exist, and to finally wake up one morning and hear on the news they no longer do.
radsoft.net
Posted anonymously to protect the innocent.
I started blocking ads for one simple reason. At the time I was using UPC as an ISP (crap dutch cable modem) and was constantly seeing annoying flashing banners advertising, wait for it, UPC. Wtf? Kinda like watching NBC in holland where they interrupted the Tonight Show to show ads for, tadaa, the Tonight Show. Oh well, must be an american thing.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You could have called this "Ballmer's Boners!"
Best Buy can have you arrested
MS tries to play that down, now, as if they weren't serious or something..., but I have friends who work at google who had some pretty funny things to say about the whole thing.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Also it is always said that MS is rich but is it? It certainly doesn't seem to have like a super rich company. Super rich companies BUY things. MS rarely buys anything big.
Stock value don't mean shit. It is nice for loans but you can't easily turn it into cash.
It would be very intrestting to see some real analysis into MS money. Enron and Worldcom has money too remember? And no I am not saying MS is Enron but some said during the analysis that there were links.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
...isn't that there are bugs in Windows (plenty in FBSD and Linux and every other OS) ...isn;t that they are a monopoly (IBM has a stranglehold on big iron that makes MS grasp of PC's look like a hug) ....isn;t that they deploy a suite of back doors known as Office (nothing witty to insert here) ...it is that they are driven by their marketing department.
this is and always will be the core of what Slashdot zealots hate about them.
I won;t even bother to check this for typos because it will be labeled as troll by Slashdot dweebs who refuse to grow up... simply because it doesn't deamonize a large American software company that did well.
Crap look at the big pitcure and see that all computers and software is/are cool. Jesus fucking christ have things degraded so far that the readers of a tech web site can't see that????
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Nobody wants to be intruded with ads
I don't want to be intruded with anything!
Plus I think that's illegal in some states...
You can't take the sky from me...
Perhaps, with just a chance of luck -- Microsoft will hear what I'm actually saying every time one of their products causes me headaches ... with their new Speech Server 2004 (it'll be another costly flop, I hope :)
Ballmer said Microsoft spends about 12 percent of its media budget on online advertising, and that he orders his staff to "saturate" that market first and foremost.
... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad," he said.
"I want to make sure (a user) can't get through
Slashdot is taking the quote way out of context. Ballmer isn't trying to 'own' the internet, they are simply buying a lot of advertising on it. All kinds of sites, including slashdot benefit from this.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Since when has Microsoft EVER fostered ANY innovation?
Their idea of entering the search engine business will not involve innovation. It will involve them exploiting their monopoly browser market share to force users to patronize their proprietary search engine.
Don't know 'bout you folks, but for me, right below the /. post is an animated google ad that reads:
Google AdSense
Deliver Ads relevant to your content.
Impressively targetted!
I didn't pay attention to politics until my country started to scare me. Recently.
Viacom owns a lot of entertainment and media companies.
Interestingly, he dismissed the importance of the internet as not being useful to his company. I think this was in 1994 or so. He said it was only of interest to researchers and hobbyists. His only interest in the internet was the possibility of video on demand, which his company had done some market research with, and determined was not going to make viacom any money.
Anyway, the thing that Redstone said that really stuck with me, gave me a chill in fact, was:
You'd think he was being delusional except that he made it apparent in the rest of his speech that he had the means to achieve that goal, and by the looks of it I think he's well on his way their.It makes you want to go live on a desert island, doesn't it?
Request your free CD of my piano music.
-
Google - 199 hits
-
MSN - 121 hits
-
Yahoo - 304 hits
Surprisingly few pages mention Ballmer's monkey dance.Request your free CD of my piano music.
This is in reponse to your signature. Be careful what you ask for. Bit by bit, Bush is trying to break OPEC by invading OPEC countries and/or spurring coup d'etats in those countries.
The key difference between a Programmer and a Senior Programmer is that one of them is Mexican.
Best quote? 'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.' Nice to see they're still user-oriented."
You joke, but judging from the Microsoft ads I see on slashdot every now and then, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.
That's why you see all those glitzy TV ads for toilet paper and toothpaste.
Stop for a minute and think about that wad of paper you're about to wipe with, and consider how much of it's purchase price went to pay for its national television advertising campaign.
Then consider the possibility that the toilet paper isn't the real product here, rather the advertising is the product.
They could be selling anything - anything innocuous anyway - the product you purchase is just a vehicle to get you to spend some money in response to the ad.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
I think you'll see some good competition in this area.
- S Ballmer
I think what he means is we can count on bad competition.
I'm frightened. If Microsoft manages to win the search war, they will win utterly.
The problem is this: around half of all web users use search engines. This number can only increase. Once you've figured out how to search, you don't go back.
What's the easiest way to find information, differing opinions, liberal and conservative media, new software technologies, etc.? I found Slashdot via search. I probably wouldn't have heard of PHP or a dozen other open source projects if it wasn't for search.
If Microsoft wins the search war, that's a hop, skip and a jump from controlling the results that a user receives from a search. Do you think open source would have the support it has now, without people finding its existence through search?
Yes, there's hyperlinking. But say Microsoft blocked anything that was three hyperlinks away from any potential contentious site? Very few users would get to that site. Why wouldn't Microsoft do this? They shown us time and time again that they're capable of using underhand tactics to achieve market dominance.
The thing about a being a monopoly is that you have to stay being a monopoly or you die. Microsoft needs to win the search war to survive, but if they do, it will be disastrous for all of us. It's not about a software product winning in at a particular function: in the case of search, it's about access to information for all. If you control access to information, you control public opinion. Simple as that.
Wait! Did you just say Steve Ballmer rapes horses?? With the dead bodies of children?? Omigod! Omigod! This is shocking! This is shocking!
By the way, you could just leave out everything before you get to that line. Not that I'm criticizing, but that was the clincher for me!
Let's give in, let's allow Microsoft to have everything, like they appear to want. They act like a big stupid kid in the playground, can't allow anybody else to have anything going on - they HAVE to poke their nose in, take the ball away, whatever.
GUIs, browsers, portable PCs, iPods, search engines, operating systems, you name it, they cannot leave it to someone else/better.
OK, MS, you win. Have it. Have the lot. The rest of us will stop and do something else. The computer industry will stagnate for quite a while, but we'll bide our time...
After oh, I dunno, say ten years or so with not one single innovation coming up, maybe, just maybe, people will have had enough. In the meantime, progress has quietly been made in technology. It will take just one small startup to suddenly trounce MS and come out with something so far ahead that they will be left spinning in the dust in its wake, wondering what the hell just happened. That's the trouble with all this steady gradual (and visible) progress amongst their competitors right now - it gives them too much of a chance to see what's going on. OK, it still takes them a few years, and they are consistently behind the curve, but not enough to forge the IT revolution that is so badly needed.
So leave it all to them. It's the quickest route to their oblivion in the end.
"Best quote? 'I want to make sure (a user) can't get through ... an online experience without hitting a Microsoft ad.' Nice to see they're still user-oriented.""
/. talking about hardware hacking projects for geeks and wondering about /. hypocrisy from the editors.
I won't even bother pointing out how this quote was taken out of context, but I will mention that I'm looking at some stupid ad on
Vote for Pedro
The thing is is that he made this money. And when I say made, I don't mean earned, I mean he and other stakeholders in Microsoft created that money from what would never have been. As in, far from "empty[ing] the pool", the pool of money is bigger because of what Microsoft is worth.
Maybe you understood it but forgot to make it clear, and maybe you didn't. The dollar value that is assigned to stocks is given by assuming that you can sell all of your holdings without affecting the stock price downward. You can only do this if you have a small enough portion of the overall stock to not create too much supply.
Given this definition, I disagree with your claim that BG made the money (out of what, whole cloth?). He created a company and built a demand for his stock. The belief (by investors) that MS will continue to do well (as measured by the bottom line) is what pushes the MS stock price up, and accounts for a significant portion of BG's worth.
Having all of your value tied up in stocks and bonds doesn't give you much liquidity. If you have "things" (cars, homes, paintings, furniture), it can take a while to find a seller, and sometimes you have to find a specialist to take care of that for you (which is why you hear about "liquidators" who have cheap furniture, or whatever).
The value that is in the stock market is not real money until you sell your holdings and get cash. I say then, that your statement
the pool of money is bigger because of what Microsoft is worth
is utter nonsense.
Please read a comment before moderating it. A subject line that says "Article Text" doesn't necessarily mean that it actually is the article's text.
Forget "informative", I'll be damned if that isn't "funny", or better yet, downright hilarious.
Yo, Ballmer -
We'll pay for it. DAILY.
And the Constitution should be amended to require EVERY individual to have a Microsoft Windows logo tattoed somewhere on their body, taking up at least 9 square inches of space, and that all newborns should have that logo tattoed on them upon birth. Yeah. That's a good idea.
I have four words for you:
I love this company, yeah!
If Google can convince enough people to start using Firefox, IE won't be something that MS will be able to use to force MSN Search down our throats. It's a win for FOSS, web standards and Google.
Your insightful comment made me realize why Everquest won out over the pioneer in the "really big graphical mud" genre, Ultima Online. UO made a lot of basic mistakes that the late comer could capitalize on, such as forgetting to make their game like crack-cocaine.
The enemies of Democracy are
Do none of you know ANYTHING about marketing? Get your product in the customers head. There is no way around it. If you've got it (the money), flaunt it.
If you think this is immoral, too bad because that's life and everyone else lives by it.
Here comes the flamebait rating. Oh well.
It is ever worse that you didn't get into
defence business earlier. Nukes, I mean...
Furthermore, these donations are usually targeted at areas, coincidentally, also looking into F/OSS or other non-MS solutions.
Call me cynical.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
For the past 2 or 3 days, I've noticed an MS ad across the top of slashdot, specifically the one that says that the TCO of that other OS is cheaper than Linux.
Also, 3 out of 6 "articles" in the google news Sci-Tech/Biz sections are MS-related.
Longhorn was invented so that people could talk (and developers get gooey-eyed in the manner of "oh, look, new technology") about something other than Linux. .NET was invented likewise to counter java. The Xbox? PS2. It's THEIR market and don't you forget it.
They want your eyeballs: your wallets will follow.
hPatriotism is a virtue of the vicious
And, BTW, do you remember who had "World domination. Fast." in his .plan?
I always beleive quotes when there are "..." in them. Come on this was taken out of context, or at least the quote was crafted to give a false statement.
Their purpose was to ensure that now, ten years later, they can lie through their teeth about bundling requirements for purposes of monopoly abuse. Hence they can now claim that, of all things, media player is an integral part of the 'OS'.
Don't propogate the meme - Windows is a distribution, not an OS. As such, Media Player, IE etc are removable without breaking the OS.
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
I love the fact that I was faced with a giant MS ad while reading this clip. :)
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
on Google a search for Windows 2003 Server Keygen returns 75,015 hits and an ad for the opportunity to "Learn to Admin Windows 2003" . . .