Let me clarify.
Local governments cannot censor what is seen. However they can put pressure on the ISP if it is a private company whose revenue depends on the contract, to behave in certain ways. If they are a near de-facto monopoly as they will be in many places then this will have a censorious effect on information to the community.
(Yes of course you can choose not to use the local WIFI etc.)
Constitution Shmonstitution. Censorship by private companies happens all the time in this world of limited media. ISPs have the ability to filter information in teh same way the Chinese gov't is. All I am saying is watch for the pol's to start pressuring the ISPs to meet "community values" etc.
So I am talking about the soft censorship rather than passing a law that censors stuff. This is the sort of censorship we need to be fearful of in teh US rather than relying on the old saw "frist amendment blah blah".
The current approach of many local governments to creating local endorsed monopolies for city-wide WIFI will only increase this as pressure starts to come on the ISP from the people who own their business. The ISP will hide the details due to 'proprietary competitive' reasons.
Free municipality owned WIFI at least has the ability for more accountable public citizen monitoring of what censorship is put in place.
Just my thought on the creep of censorship here in the US.
Hmmm... Don't know how this squares with this piece:
The new tax would be charged each time you fill up. A computer inside the gas pump would communicate with your car's odometer to calculate how much you owe.
If your odometer calculates your mileage then this isn't so much for mileage as exception reporting for when you are out of the state - so that those numbers can be subtracted. Sounds a mess to me.
not this old saw again...
ignoring the fact that the two objections to my post are mutually contradictory
1) don't worry it is private industry you can trust that
2) don't worry it is government you can trust that
the reality is that we have government dependent business monopolies being created which benefit from neither adequate government oversight, nor completely private motives
i think this issue is somewhat more complex than you are realising and to believe that cosy relationships with local government (the most corruptible part) don't trump individual liberties is incredibly naive - i am guessing you have no experience of the process of selling to local government
i thought the same thing... one of the more intelligent lines of discussion in this whole thing...
i actually went to the FAQ and looked up the moderation section for the first time in years yesterday when i saw this one being kept in the doldrums
An alternative view - though also defined by who gets into hell:
"...Atheists! Atheists? Over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.
Okay, and Christians! Christians? Ah yes, I'm sorry, I'm afraid the Jews were right..."
Have you noticed heaven is always defined by who is left out more than who is let in... allows for all sorts of abuses...
Probably posted this in the wrong place to be relevant to this msg, so posting again:
I think many of us have a set of core beliefs not far from yours... mine differs in the belief that the entire EVERYTHING (universe is a word that gets disputed so lets just say everything) and the god that people believe in are synonymous and that all the structure built around the common beliefs which all religions share is largely there for societal control purposes... i mean the core is be nice to people (love) and tend to those less fortunate than yourselves (charity)...
karma expresses itself in may ways...
I believe that there is one consciousness, we are all parts of it (if somewhat silo'd) - the concept of reincarnation is that we all experience each "separate" consciousness even those those experiences are isolated at the time... thereby everything we do LITERALLY will come back at us - we will experience it...
and to get REALLY into the tie in with science:
Physics is tending towards the view that if we get the framework right a single quantum event can kick off the entire universe... a single quantum event is almost like a question - a bit - a yes no... i think that if you want to believe in god then look at the universe this way - what is the question? do i exist... given QM we know that this is not going to be a binary yes/no answer but a YES in these circumstances... and those circumstances are the entire EVERYTHING...
okay - bit rushed but enough rambling for today...
Original poster: This is the kind of ignorance you get whenever you try to get into a serious conversation about principles with people (particularly monotheists)
I think many of us have a set of core beliefs not far from yours... mine differs in the belief that the entire EVERYTHING (universe is a word that gets disputed so lets just say everything) and the god that people believe in are synonymous and that all the structure but around the common beliefs that all religions share is largely there for societal control purposes... i mean the core is be nice to people (love) and tend to those less fortunate than yourselves...
karma expresses itself in may ways...
I believe that there is one consciousness, we are all parts of it - the concept of reincarnation is that we all experience each "separate" consciousness even those those experiences are isolated at the time... thereby everything we do LITERALLY will come back at us - we will experience it...
and to get REALLY into the tie in with science:
Physics is tending towards the view that if we get the framework right a single quantum event can kick off the entire universe... a single quantum event is almost like a question - a bit - a yes no... i think that if you want to believe in god then look at the universe this way - what is the question? do i exist... given QM we know that this is not going to be a binary yes/no answer but a YES in these circumstances... and those circumstances are the entire EVERYTHING...
Isn't the real counterargument here that we don't need to be adding any more energy to the balance than we get from the sun if we want to avert serious and possibly irreversable climate change.
Slashdot Mirror
Let me clarify. Local governments cannot censor what is seen. However they can put pressure on the ISP if it is a private company whose revenue depends on the contract, to behave in certain ways. If they are a near de-facto monopoly as they will be in many places then this will have a censorious effect on information to the community. (Yes of course you can choose not to use the local WIFI etc.) Constitution Shmonstitution. Censorship by private companies happens all the time in this world of limited media. ISPs have the ability to filter information in teh same way the Chinese gov't is. All I am saying is watch for the pol's to start pressuring the ISPs to meet "community values" etc. So I am talking about the soft censorship rather than passing a law that censors stuff. This is the sort of censorship we need to be fearful of in teh US rather than relying on the old saw "frist amendment blah blah".
The current approach of many local governments to creating local endorsed monopolies for city-wide WIFI will only increase this as pressure starts to come on the ISP from the people who own their business. The ISP will hide the details due to 'proprietary competitive' reasons. Free municipality owned WIFI at least has the ability for more accountable public citizen monitoring of what censorship is put in place. Just my thought on the creep of censorship here in the US.
More specifically this is what Mitnick has been telling people all along - I seem to read about him saying this regularly....
Well, oft criticized on here, I still hope his humane interface project keeps going...
Hmmm... Don't know how this squares with this piece:
The new tax would be charged each time you fill up. A computer inside the gas pump would communicate with your car's odometer to calculate how much you owe. If your odometer calculates your mileage then this isn't so much for mileage as exception reporting for when you are out of the state - so that those numbers can be subtracted. Sounds a mess to me.
It says through the gas pump talking to your odometer... not the same thing at all...
not this old saw again... ignoring the fact that the two objections to my post are mutually contradictory 1) don't worry it is private industry you can trust that 2) don't worry it is government you can trust that the reality is that we have government dependent business monopolies being created which benefit from neither adequate government oversight, nor completely private motives i think this issue is somewhat more complex than you are realising and to believe that cosy relationships with local government (the most corruptible part) don't trump individual liberties is incredibly naive - i am guessing you have no experience of the process of selling to local government
what part of that suggests this is a good thing? i thought government controlled communications media != good thing
but this is the beginning of the government controlled communications infrastructure and the final elimination of individual value from the internet
So basically this is the beginning of the grab for wireless monopolies that we will be regretting allowing be established in about 5 years time right?
i thought the same thing... one of the more intelligent lines of discussion in this whole thing... i actually went to the FAQ and looked up the moderation section for the first time in years yesterday when i saw this one being kept in the doldrums
"...Atheists! Atheists? Over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.
Okay, and Christians! Christians? Ah yes, I'm sorry, I'm afraid the Jews were right..."
Have you noticed heaven is always defined by who is left out more than who is let in... allows for all sorts of abuses...
I think many of us have a set of core beliefs not far from yours... mine differs in the belief that the entire EVERYTHING (universe is a word that gets disputed so lets just say everything) and the god that people believe in are synonymous and that all the structure built around the common beliefs which all religions share is largely there for societal control purposes... i mean the core is be nice to people (love) and tend to those less fortunate than yourselves (charity)...
karma expresses itself in may ways...
I believe that there is one consciousness, we are all parts of it (if somewhat silo'd) - the concept of reincarnation is that we all experience each "separate" consciousness even those those experiences are isolated at the time... thereby everything we do LITERALLY will come back at us - we will experience it...
and to get REALLY into the tie in with science:
Physics is tending towards the view that if we get the framework right a single quantum event can kick off the entire universe... a single quantum event is almost like a question - a bit - a yes no... i think that if you want to believe in god then look at the universe this way - what is the question? do i exist... given QM we know that this is not going to be a binary yes/no answer but a YES in these circumstances... and those circumstances are the entire EVERYTHING...
okay - bit rushed but enough rambling for today...
I think many of us have a set of core beliefs not far from yours... mine differs in the belief that the entire EVERYTHING (universe is a word that gets disputed so lets just say everything) and the god that people believe in are synonymous and that all the structure but around the common beliefs that all religions share is largely there for societal control purposes... i mean the core is be nice to people (love) and tend to those less fortunate than yourselves...
karma expresses itself in may ways...
I believe that there is one consciousness, we are all parts of it - the concept of reincarnation is that we all experience each "separate" consciousness even those those experiences are isolated at the time... thereby everything we do LITERALLY will come back at us - we will experience it...
and to get REALLY into the tie in with science:
Physics is tending towards the view that if we get the framework right a single quantum event can kick off the entire universe... a single quantum event is almost like a question - a bit - a yes no... i think that if you want to believe in god then look at the universe this way - what is the question? do i exist... given QM we know that this is not going to be a binary yes/no answer but a YES in these circumstances... and those circumstances are the entire EVERYTHING...
okay enough rambling for today...
Isn't the real counterargument here that we don't need to be adding any more energy to the balance than we get from the sun if we want to avert serious and possibly irreversable climate change.
This is not a good thing.