Some of us don't want to have to reboot our computer just to access a bank "website". And we are to just trust that this live-whatever they make doesn't install something persistent on our computers or read data off the drives?
And each bank or "important" site would have their own pseudo-proprietary bootable image? So I have to reboot again with something else to access my retirement funds site? Reboot again to access Paypal?
Doesn't this sound a little impractical?
For now, I use a carefully administered Linux machine running Firefox... *I* don't want to reboot (besides, it would ruin my wonderful uptime numbers).
>Businesses do not use the web browser - they have special programs.
Sorry, but that is just wrong. Our business is not exactly small (400+ employees). We use https web to transfer our direct deposit to the bank, to download statements, to perform money transfers, to do just about everything. And we are not at all atypical.
Of course, it is all done in Firefox under Linux... and THAT part *is* atypical.
Many of us fought for years trying to get the banks to stop using crappy MS-Windows-only proprietary code and stupid IE-only junk. I would hate to see that all slip away because of MS-Windows malware.
OMG, I wasn't saying that ID didn't support the FOSS community... don't misread what I said! I was making a point that they *do* and *have* supported the FOSS community and that can be part of their motivation for continued Linux support, despite sales numbers.
Well, you have a good point. They were kinda ahead of their time. But keep in mind a lot of MS-Windows software companies have not done well over the years too...
My points were that 1) It is possible to port to Linux 2) People do buy the software (or they would not have continued with other games 3) It can't have been all THAT expensive or a small company like Loki could not have done it.
Just thought I would mention that there are a hell of a lot more than just 3 million machines running Linux. Even 30 million is probably too low of an estimate... and that doesn't count phones, TiVo's, GPS's and other embedded machines.
Yes, a good chuck of those are servers. But your comment makes it sound like only a fraction of 3 million total Linux machines are running desktop.... WRONG!
if buying Doom 3 and Quake 4 wasn't enough, why would it be meaningful to show how many Linux users are willing to play a free game, as opposed to actually put down money for a good game?
I couldn't agree with you more. I have no interest in "Quakelive", yet I, too, purchased Quake 4 and Doom 3 (and many others) for Linux. Of course one problem was that we couldn't really buy the LINUX version, we had to buy the MS-Windows version, the download the Linux binary from the website and use the WAD files and license off the disc. So, unless the program was feeding back spy info to ID, they really have no idea how many were Linux sales.
Had they not run in Linux, I would not have purchased them at all.
Linux users never pay for anything, so it doesn't even matter.
You are full of crap. I have purchased *dozens* of commercial games for Linux: Wolfenstien 2, Heroes3, Doom3, Heretic 2, Myth 2, Goo, Sim City 3000, are just a few I can remember of the top of my head. All commercial. All Linux based. And I am certainly not alone.
And it never will be until more companies start porting the engines/games to Linux. As one person tagged- it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone has to get the ball rolling.
Even if it is not a big money maker, there is something to be said for doing it anyway. Many of the game companies (especially ID) use and enjoy FOSS... it is a way of giving back by supporting it.
Fortunately, "porting" such games to Linux is usually not all that difficult for professional shops, since they tend to program very well and use portable code.
I, for one, don't care if it needs to use the Nvidia binary driver, I still welcome it with open arms. And I am still waiting to open my wallet for a decent, Linux compatible, *SINGLE USER*, first-person shooter game. The last game I bought was Castle Wolfenstien for Linux and I loved it dearly (and it was worth every penny).
"Researchers at Microsoft"..."have developed"..."running embedded Linux"
Um, was that a misprint or did hell just freeze over? Hasn't MS referred to Linux as a "virus", a "cancer", "un-American", a "patent violator", and "communistic"?
That MIGHT work partially OK for people like you or me (with enough effort). But it isn't a solution to roll out to hundreds of users that don't even understand the concept of going directly to a website. They think you have to put a web address into Google, then click on the first link that comes up. I think you know what I mean...
1) That is a tremendous amount of work (compared to something like Adblock) 2) In a thin client environment, white lists don't work because users don't understand it and/or don't realize what is happening anyway 3) It seems no matter how much you mess with it, it still ends up breaking something you need to make this or that site work
I keep hoping someone will invent some type of intelligent blocking system for animation that understands the typical methods being used and can short-circuit just those elements. Maybe it isn't possible.
Meanwhile I am trying to find a way to get Firefox to STOP automatic animation. It used to be easy- don't use Flash and disable animated GIF's. Now with Ajax and Javascript, it is nearly impossible.
* Many people (myself included) can't stand movement on pages while we are trying to read things. * Some people are using thin clients and animation destroys network bandwidth or overloads the main server. * Still others are on slower, older computers and animation slows their system to a crawl. * And many more are on laptops/netbooks and animation pegs the CPU and quickly drains the battery.
IMHO, a well-designed site will never create movement unless the user asks for it (with a mouse-over or click or whatever). But that would be a "in a perfect world" type fantasy.
Please, don't bother replying suggesting "noscript"- it breaks necessary functionality of sites horribly.
Anyone that CARES about their role can take any time off they need/want. Just LET EVERYONE ELSE KNOW that you are going on vacation or sabbatical or whatever and when you are expected back. Communication is the key. Just "disappearing" without telling people is not suitable behavior for anyone- a parent, a friend, a SO, an employer, an employee, a government official, even a volunteer. It is just plain rude, immature, and inconsiderate.
As if we want Silverlight... Gross! At least I have to hand it to Microsoft.... instead of just ignoring Linux users, or insulting them with "click here for the plugin" and being handed some useless.exe, you get this now:
"Install Silverlight. Experience this in Silverlight Install the free Plug-in. Microsoft Silverlight may not be supported on your computer's hardware or operating system. If you are using a Linux, FreeBSD or SolarisOS operating system, please press the Click to Install button to get the appropriate installation package for Silverlight."
And you click and it takes you to go-mono.com/moonlight! Wow! Microsoft admitting that Linux actually exists?? And providing a working link to an actual program to handle it??? Amazing!
But also keep in mind that some people do own a legal and transferable license for MS-Windows and don't want to have to buy it again. Purchasing the Linux version might be as close to "blank" as they can get.
Of course, you and I both know that MORE people are just illegally loading MS-Windows.
I look forward to a day when we are not forced to buy ANY OS with ANY computer. I just hope that day will come.
Since there are so few Linux-pre-installed laptops, most people that do want to run Linux are forced to purchase one with MS Windows preloaded on it and then install Linux. These are counted as MS Windows sales. Unfortunately, they also continue to fuel the machine that prevents choice in the first place.
Anyway, every laptop/notebook I have purchased in the last 15 years has forced MS Windows on it, with the sole exception of the Asus EEE 1000 I purchased from Amazon, and that model is now discontinued.
I know a lot of people who buy MS Windows laptops to run Linux (granted, I am active in a Unix User's Group).
>Flip this around - you own a small bar, should you have the right to refuse entry to people who are likely to cause violence? It's your property, right?
I could flip it around too....
As a bar/store/business owner, should you have the "right" to refuse entry to people who:
1) are of a certain color? 2) are a certain sexual orientation? 3) are of a particular religion? 4) are of a particular political party? 5) are wearing clothing? 6) have speeding tickets? 7) have done jail time? 8) don't allow you to search their person? 9) don't allow a DNA sample? 10) don't have a certain bank account balance? 11) live in a certain part of town? 12) are registered to own a gun?
Just something to think about. "Private" business controls our freedom and lives every bit as much as the government. Perhaps more.
As for your second part:
>And in order to verify identity, shouldn't you be able to request that the person supply some ID?
If there is a minimum age requirement, you can verify their age. But that does not require knowing their identity, just their age. And it doesn't require keeping records of it.
Well, if it is true, I guess it is approaching similarity (pre-installed, required). So, we will do something about it if Apple reaches 90% of the desktop market and is declared a damaging, predatory monopoly...
At least Apple's browser is much more standards compliant and theoretically multi-platform (although Apple ignores Linux).
Slashdot Mirror
+1 insightful... mod parent up. That is the best suggestion I have seen on this entire thread.
Some of us don't want to have to reboot our computer just to access a bank "website". And we are to just trust that this live-whatever they make doesn't install something persistent on our computers or read data off the drives?
And each bank or "important" site would have their own pseudo-proprietary bootable image? So I have to reboot again with something else to access my retirement funds site? Reboot again to access Paypal?
Doesn't this sound a little impractical?
For now, I use a carefully administered Linux machine running Firefox... *I* don't want to reboot (besides, it would ruin my wonderful uptime numbers).
>Businesses do not use the web browser - they have special programs.
Sorry, but that is just wrong. Our business is not exactly small (400+ employees). We use https web to transfer our direct deposit to the bank, to download statements, to perform money transfers, to do just about everything. And we are not at all atypical.
Of course, it is all done in Firefox under Linux... and THAT part *is* atypical.
Many of us fought for years trying to get the banks to stop using crappy MS-Windows-only proprietary code and stupid IE-only junk. I would hate to see that all slip away because of MS-Windows malware.
OMG, I wasn't saying that ID didn't support the FOSS community... don't misread what I said! I was making a point that they *do* and *have* supported the FOSS community and that can be part of their motivation for continued Linux support, despite sales numbers.
No, I said the 30 million Linux machines didn't include embedded machines, that's all.
Well, you have a good point. They were kinda ahead of their time. But keep in mind a lot of MS-Windows software companies have not done well over the years too...
My points were that 1) It is possible to port to Linux 2) People do buy the software (or they would not have continued with other games 3) It can't have been all THAT expensive or a small company like Loki could not have done it.
Just thought I would mention that there are a hell of a lot more than just 3 million machines running Linux. Even 30 million is probably too low of an estimate... and that doesn't count phones, TiVo's, GPS's and other embedded machines. Yes, a good chuck of those are servers. But your comment makes it sound like only a fraction of 3 million total Linux machines are running desktop.... WRONG!
I couldn't agree with you more. I have no interest in "Quakelive", yet I, too, purchased Quake 4 and Doom 3 (and many others) for Linux. Of course one problem was that we couldn't really buy the LINUX version, we had to buy the MS-Windows version, the download the Linux binary from the website and use the WAD files and license off the disc. So, unless the program was feeding back spy info to ID, they really have no idea how many were Linux sales.
Had they not run in Linux, I would not have purchased them at all.
You are full of crap. I have purchased *dozens* of commercial games for Linux: Wolfenstien 2, Heroes3, Doom3, Heretic 2, Myth 2, Goo, Sim City 3000, are just a few I can remember of the top of my head. All commercial. All Linux based. And I am certainly not alone.
And it never will be until more companies start porting the engines/games to Linux. As one person tagged- it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone has to get the ball rolling.
Even if it is not a big money maker, there is something to be said for doing it anyway. Many of the game companies (especially ID) use and enjoy FOSS... it is a way of giving back by supporting it.
Fortunately, "porting" such games to Linux is usually not all that difficult for professional shops, since they tend to program very well and use portable code.
I, for one, don't care if it needs to use the Nvidia binary driver, I still welcome it with open arms. And I am still waiting to open my wallet for a decent, Linux compatible, *SINGLE USER*, first-person shooter game. The last game I bought was Castle Wolfenstien for Linux and I loved it dearly (and it was worth every penny).
"Researchers at Microsoft"..."have developed"..."running embedded Linux"
Um, was that a misprint or did hell just freeze over? Hasn't MS referred to Linux as a "virus", a "cancer", "un-American", a "patent violator", and "communistic"?
That MIGHT work partially OK for people like you or me (with enough effort). But it isn't a solution to roll out to hundreds of users that don't even understand the concept of going directly to a website. They think you have to put a web address into Google, then click on the first link that comes up. I think you know what I mean...
1) That is a tremendous amount of work (compared to something like Adblock)
2) In a thin client environment, white lists don't work because users don't understand it and/or don't realize what is happening anyway
3) It seems no matter how much you mess with it, it still ends up breaking something you need to make this or that site work
I keep hoping someone will invent some type of intelligent blocking system for animation that understands the typical methods being used and can short-circuit just those elements. Maybe it isn't possible.
Well, if you mean Adblock Plus... yes, all my machines run that. And it does help tremendously. But these animations are not necessarily ads.
As for time- I have spent lots and lots of time trying... tips appreciated
On my systems, pressing escape does nothing to stop any animations.
http://www.visiosight.com/
http://samples.gaiaware.net/Timer.aspx
http://www.volll.com/
Meanwhile I am trying to find a way to get Firefox to STOP automatic animation. It used to be easy- don't use Flash and disable animated GIF's. Now with Ajax and Javascript, it is nearly impossible.
* Many people (myself included) can't stand movement on pages while we are trying to read things.
* Some people are using thin clients and animation destroys network bandwidth or overloads the main server.
* Still others are on slower, older computers and animation slows their system to a crawl.
* And many more are on laptops/netbooks and animation pegs the CPU and quickly drains the battery.
IMHO, a well-designed site will never create movement unless the user asks for it (with a mouse-over or click or whatever). But that would be a "in a perfect world" type fantasy.
Please, don't bother replying suggesting "noscript"- it breaks necessary functionality of sites horribly.
Anyone that CARES about their role can take any time off they need/want. Just LET EVERYONE ELSE KNOW that you are going on vacation or sabbatical or whatever and when you are expected back. Communication is the key. Just "disappearing" without telling people is not suitable behavior for anyone- a parent, a friend, a SO, an employer, an employee, a government official, even a volunteer. It is just plain rude, immature, and inconsiderate.
As if we want Silverlight... Gross! At least I have to hand it to Microsoft.... instead of just ignoring Linux users, or insulting them with "click here for the plugin" and being handed some useless .exe, you get this now:
"Install Silverlight. Experience this in Silverlight Install the free Plug-in. Microsoft Silverlight may not be supported on your computer's hardware or operating system. If you are using a Linux, FreeBSD or SolarisOS operating system, please press the Click to Install button to get the appropriate installation package for Silverlight."
And you click and it takes you to go-mono.com/moonlight! Wow! Microsoft admitting that Linux actually exists?? And providing a working link to an actual program to handle it??? Amazing!
Still won't install it, though :)
Probably.
But also keep in mind that some people do own a legal and transferable license for MS-Windows and don't want to have to buy it again. Purchasing the Linux version might be as close to "blank" as they can get.
Of course, you and I both know that MORE people are just illegally loading MS-Windows.
I look forward to a day when we are not forced to buy ANY OS with ANY computer. I just hope that day will come.
And what about the false negatives?
Since there are so few Linux-pre-installed laptops, most people that do want to run Linux are forced to purchase one with MS Windows preloaded on it and then install Linux. These are counted as MS Windows sales. Unfortunately, they also continue to fuel the machine that prevents choice in the first place.
Anyway, every laptop/notebook I have purchased in the last 15 years has forced MS Windows on it, with the sole exception of the Asus EEE 1000 I purchased from Amazon, and that model is now discontinued.
I know a lot of people who buy MS Windows laptops to run Linux (granted, I am active in a Unix User's Group).
>Flip this around - you own a small bar, should you have the right to refuse entry to people who are likely to cause violence? It's your property, right?
I could flip it around too....
As a bar/store/business owner, should you have the "right" to refuse entry to people who:
1) are of a certain color?
2) are a certain sexual orientation?
3) are of a particular religion?
4) are of a particular political party?
5) are wearing clothing?
6) have speeding tickets?
7) have done jail time?
8) don't allow you to search their person?
9) don't allow a DNA sample?
10) don't have a certain bank account balance?
11) live in a certain part of town?
12) are registered to own a gun?
Just something to think about. "Private" business controls our freedom and lives every bit as much as the government. Perhaps more.
As for your second part:
>And in order to verify identity, shouldn't you be able to request that the person supply some ID?
If there is a minimum age requirement, you can verify their age. But that does not require knowing their identity, just their age. And it doesn't require keeping records of it.
Well, if it is true, I guess it is approaching similarity (pre-installed, required). So, we will do something about it if Apple reaches 90% of the desktop market and is declared a damaging, predatory monopoly...
At least Apple's browser is much more standards compliant and theoretically multi-platform (although Apple ignores Linux).
And 75% of the market doesn't know it :)
You are incredibly correct. This is another reason many are "cattle"....
The vast majority of people couldn't care less about privacy or freedom. That is, until it is lost- and by then it is usually too late.
Each generation successively gives up a little more freedom and privacy in the name of "safety".