Hehe, I was amazed by it about a week or two ago, when I checked out of curiosity. I can't believe he's had time to have kids.
Of note, one of his sons was an extra in the crowd during the pod racing scene. Ironically, that son was watching Luke's father win the race. It all sounds like part of a Douglas Adams story to me:)
I agree with quite a bit of what you said. You see, I'm a dad too. Not only that, my oldest is a 15 year old girl, who I wish would eat way too much, develop bad skin, and stop brushing her teeth. None of those seem reasonable, so I get to deal with teenage boys all the time. Most of them seem nice, but I was a teenage boy once, and I know the usual drill.
Here's an interesting thing about me... I've never done any drugs, unless you count alcohol or properly prescribed medicines. Admittedly, the only reason I never smoked pot was the fear of disappointing my parents. I don't think they would have been disappointed in my smoking pot, but the possibility of being picked up by the police would be a completely different story.
I find drug testing horribly invasive. However, as a contract programmer, when I say no, I risk not working at all. I do point out that I think drug testing is an invasion of privacy, hoping that notion will catch on. Sometimes I don't get the gig, sometimes they let me slip in anyway. It seems the larger the company, the more often I don't get the gig. To me it's a matter of principal that, earlier in my career, I gave in to. But at this point in my career, I don't mind a little downtime. Besides, it almost guarantess I won't be working for large corporations anymore, which is fine with me.
I like to remind employers (usually after I have the gig) that the contract we've signed entitles them to 40 hours of my time per week, or 1960 hours a year. If they would like to dictate how I spend the rest of my hours in the week/year, then we'll need to renegotiate our contract, as they're making an attempt to change their terms.
Now, if an employer has reason to suspect an employee is under the influence of drugs or alcohol at work, then by all means, test them right away. But if someone likes to do whatever it is they do on Saturday night, a company shouldn't have any say whatsoever. If that person winds up in jail over it, and that jail time affects their work schedule, then it's time to decide wether it's worth it to keep them on the payroll.
I comment all the time. Sometimes it's before I start coding in a function to line up my thoughts. Sometimes it's after, to explain the horrible hack I had to implement. Sometimes I leave the name of the idiotic manager that forced me to write code that used unsupported features, along with an explitive or two.
Yet I still play. SOE/LA knows they have a lock with idiots like me, because it's the only Star Wars MMOG out there. I've decided to quit many times, only to pass on the notion.
SOE released the combat upgrade in SWG not too long ago. All it did, however, was move the overpowering from some templates to others. Then, the game was met with a slew of content publishes, while long standing bugs got worse.
Now they pledge to release mostly bug fixes for the next few publishes.
Your last paragraph hits home, and I completely agree with it. But I wanted to touch on a couple of other points you make.
Firstly, you mention teamwork not being for everyone on the field. I have to say I really don't agree at all. If the tackle doesn't pull and take the linebacker out, the sweep doesn't work. If the reciever doesn't sell the idea that he's really part of the play when he's not, the cornerback can run in and stop the play. If the strong safety doesn't commit when they play is decidedly a run, there might be a gain of more yardage than even the offense anticipated. The offensive and defensive lines use schemes based on the situation they're in, not just pushing people over.
Secondly, you say there isn't much planning and strategy, other than trickery and smashing other players. My team spent each week preparing for the next team, their schemes, their balance between run and pass, their key players, etc... Our strategies revolved around which types of zones would work best against a particular attack in a particular situation. We planned how to remove a player from plays i.e. doubling certain recievers, and figuring out how to cover the rest. The defensive line worked on how to control one side of the offensive line so that the other side would break down under coverage. I still play Risk, and I think there was much more strategy employed in high school football than in that game.
Community... I'll concede. While my teammates didn't seem to be aggressive off of the field, I constantly hear of instances where players are. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
You're definitely right, though, when you say children need to learn some of these elsewhere. Sport is not the end-all when it comes to teaching these things, but it can certainly help reinforce some of the things we've already taught our children, provided we're actually parenting.
But if he gives me any crap about the virtues of team play as expressed through the brutal, beautiful ballet of football, I swear I'll murder the little bastard in his sleep.:D
I think we've both learned a little today. I've learned that some scars can run deep, and I should be a little more sensitive about that sort of thing.
Like you, I feel sorry for the kids at Permian, or San Angelo, or _insert your own west Texas town here_, etc... I feel sorry for the non-athletes who live in the shadow of those glorified athletes. I feel sorry for the glorified athletes, most of whom I think are playing for all the wrong reasons. Most of all, I feel sorry for the community who thinks it's ok to treat kids the way they do.
Strangely enough, I used to think I didn't want any son of mine playing football either, but lo and behold, my 12 year old starts his 5th year of it soon. We've had MANY conversations about good sportsmanship, how to treat the other team (and his own), what benefits he gets out of it (including just plain fun). He's also a skater, as are a few of his teammates, and into video games (we play SWG together sometimes), and is curious about the inner workings of technology. Oh, and he's a trombone player. I think as long as his mother and I continue treating him like a person, and actually parenting (strange concepts these days) he's going to turn out just fine.
p.s. did you ever watch Friday Night Lights? I really thought Tim McGraw's character summed up the Permian parents who push their kids to play harder because their own dreams of leaving town were crushed when they didn't get an athletic scholarship.
Remember, MTV doesn't put out anything. They simply regurgitate the videos that their market research indicates will gain them the best advertising dollars based on the viewers they target.
Basically, they play crap because the majority of teenagers want crap.
The Odessa Permians of the world of sports are the minority. What you had in central/west Texas (I'm also a native Texan, btw) is a series of rural towns with no other entertainment than the Friday night game. Couple that with people who had their hope of moving on from those towns pinned on the back of their athletic ability (only to have failed in their endeavor to become one of the rare people that goes on to play professionally), and you have a recipe for disaster.
I resent that you generically lump all athletes, or more specifically football players, into one category. I won't suggest that all of my teammates were a shining example of model citizens. They, however, were the minority in my school's athletic program. If you firmly believe that no good comes out of the items I pointed out, then I would suggest you're more close minded than the football players you mock.
Oh, yes, God knows it would be a tragedy to entertain the notion that we might be put on this earth to help each other.
You do realize that it's competitive nature that makes people strive for better results. That can be used in a team environment where, as you point out, we're helping each other. Competition is NOT always trying to best someone else for your own glory.
Y'know, I hear idiots talking all the time about how team sports are good for kids. But it's those team sports that help turn kids into those crazy parents in the stands that try to kill each other over a kids game.
WAY offbase there. What turns parents into the crazed lunatics you described is their own form of competition, or their drive for their special child to outperform everyone else. Most of the children who have these parents are not only embarassed by it, but lean toward hatred for the sport they play because of it. This is something I've witnessed with my own eyes (and I'm glad my son no longer wants to play little league baseball because of it). All of my children play sports, and they all play on teams that make sure they teach the lessons of fair play and good sportsmanship.
It does sound as if you have a bad taste in your mouth from personal experience. Rest assured, your experiences do not represent the sporting community as a whole.
There's also a significant emphasis on instilling fearless aggressiveness in the players during practices that you don't have in other sports.
True, unless you consider hockey, boxing, and wrestling sports.
I get your point though, and I do agree with you, for the most part. I also played high school basketball, and college volleyball. While all are team sports, and all require that you do a specific job, or the entire team suffers, there's a subtle difference. In football, your teammate stands a chance of getting hurt if you don't do your job, adding to the pressure. You don't find that in many other sports, and certainly not in the academic challenge another poster mentioned.
On the contrary, an MMO teaches no such thing. There is a difference between how people act when face to face with someone else, and how they act through their ISP. I play SWG and can cite a few examples of that playing itself out.
Yes, because tennis and golf teach teamwork.... somehow.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with football players, but it's patently obvious that you have no experience with team sports yourself. I can tell you I learned none of the above in my years in team sports.
p.s. the only injury I still have from all of the sports I played (age 7 through college competitively) is the remnants from a torn rotator cuff... from golf.
and mentions that football actually encourages real aggression, causes real injuries, and is treated totally differently
I think Taco failed to read into the author's sarcasm regarding football, but that's ok.
The author of the article seems to have taken some of their ideas from the recent Discover Magazine article titled Your Brain on Video Games. A very interesting read, a lot of which I agree with.
I'm a parent, a geek, and a former athelete (yes, it's possible). Our children (ages 8-15 now) have their homework time and we (they?) split their entertainment up between going outside to play, video games, nonsensical tv, and educational tv (of course, with a few random things thrown in to boot). On top of that, we ask that they play one sport of their choosing, and one instrument of their choosing. The mention of football in the description is a bit misleading. Some of the good things football teaches are
How to work with other people
How to get along with people you may not like
Discipline and focus, with regard to achieving a goal
Planning and stragety
Competitiveness, which certainly can help later in life if applied correctly
Other things are learned by playing instruments such as math (in different bases), appreciation for different cultures, etc... but that's a bit off topic here.
Video games can actually teach children as well. However, when they start to focus all of their freetime on video games, rather than other forms of entertainment, I think they're mission out on quite a bit. Everything in moderation.
Slashdot Mirror
I missed that one :( Now I have to track down a copy of that and the Christmas Special mentioned in another reply.
Hehe, I was amazed by it about a week or two ago, when I checked out of curiosity. I can't believe he's had time to have kids.
:)
Of note, one of his sons was an extra in the crowd during the pod racing scene. Ironically, that son was watching Luke's father win the race. It all sounds like part of a Douglas Adams story to me
I realize you were just being funny, but anyone with kids has seen (and heard) quite a bit of Mark Hammill since Return of the Jedi. See here.
I agree with quite a bit of what you said. You see, I'm a dad too. Not only that, my oldest is a 15 year old girl, who I wish would eat way too much, develop bad skin, and stop brushing her teeth. None of those seem reasonable, so I get to deal with teenage boys all the time. Most of them seem nice, but I was a teenage boy once, and I know the usual drill.
Here's an interesting thing about me... I've never done any drugs, unless you count alcohol or properly prescribed medicines. Admittedly, the only reason I never smoked pot was the fear of disappointing my parents. I don't think they would have been disappointed in my smoking pot, but the possibility of being picked up by the police would be a completely different story.
I find drug testing horribly invasive. However, as a contract programmer, when I say no, I risk not working at all. I do point out that I think drug testing is an invasion of privacy, hoping that notion will catch on. Sometimes I don't get the gig, sometimes they let me slip in anyway. It seems the larger the company, the more often I don't get the gig. To me it's a matter of principal that, earlier in my career, I gave in to. But at this point in my career, I don't mind a little downtime. Besides, it almost guarantess I won't be working for large corporations anymore, which is fine with me.
I like to remind employers (usually after I have the gig) that the contract we've signed entitles them to 40 hours of my time per week, or 1960 hours a year. If they would like to dictate how I spend the rest of my hours in the week/year, then we'll need to renegotiate our contract, as they're making an attempt to change their terms.
Now, if an employer has reason to suspect an employee is under the influence of drugs or alcohol at work, then by all means, test them right away. But if someone likes to do whatever it is they do on Saturday night, a company shouldn't have any say whatsoever. If that person winds up in jail over it, and that jail time affects their work schedule, then it's time to decide wether it's worth it to keep them on the payroll.
Wait... so capitalism... works?
I comment all the time. Sometimes it's before I start coding in a function to line up my thoughts. Sometimes it's after, to explain the horrible hack I had to implement. Sometimes I leave the name of the idiotic manager that forced me to write code that used unsupported features, along with an explitive or two.
True that. I use UltraEdit for most of my coding now, and it has a nice tool built in for converting tabs to spaces and vice versa.
:)
There's nothing worse than loading up a project someone else wrote and had their tabstop set at one space. I think they do that on purpose
Yet I still play. SOE/LA knows they have a lock with idiots like me, because it's the only Star Wars MMOG out there. I've decided to quit many times, only to pass on the notion.
Strange coincidence...
SOE released the combat upgrade in SWG not too long ago. All it did, however, was move the overpowering from some templates to others. Then, the game was met with a slew of content publishes, while long standing bugs got worse.
Now they pledge to release mostly bug fixes for the next few publishes.
Hmmmm... then I guess I should head to the package store for lunch :)
Damn! WebSense. I shouldn't try to be funny on Fridays when I'm this tired.
...WebSphere blocked me.
Your last paragraph hits home, and I completely agree with it. But I wanted to touch on a couple of other points you make.
Firstly, you mention teamwork not being for everyone on the field. I have to say I really don't agree at all. If the tackle doesn't pull and take the linebacker out, the sweep doesn't work. If the reciever doesn't sell the idea that he's really part of the play when he's not, the cornerback can run in and stop the play. If the strong safety doesn't commit when they play is decidedly a run, there might be a gain of more yardage than even the offense anticipated. The offensive and defensive lines use schemes based on the situation they're in, not just pushing people over.
Secondly, you say there isn't much planning and strategy, other than trickery and smashing other players. My team spent each week preparing for the next team, their schemes, their balance between run and pass, their key players, etc... Our strategies revolved around which types of zones would work best against a particular attack in a particular situation. We planned how to remove a player from plays i.e. doubling certain recievers, and figuring out how to cover the rest. The defensive line worked on how to control one side of the offensive line so that the other side would break down under coverage. I still play Risk, and I think there was much more strategy employed in high school football than in that game.
Community... I'll concede. While my teammates didn't seem to be aggressive off of the field, I constantly hear of instances where players are. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
You're definitely right, though, when you say children need to learn some of these elsewhere. Sport is not the end-all when it comes to teaching these things, but it can certainly help reinforce some of the things we've already taught our children, provided we're actually parenting.
But if he gives me any crap about the virtues of team play as expressed through the brutal, beautiful ballet of football, I swear I'll murder the little bastard in his sleep. :D
I think we've both learned a little today. I've learned that some scars can run deep, and I should be a little more sensitive about that sort of thing.
Like you, I feel sorry for the kids at Permian, or San Angelo, or _insert your own west Texas town here_, etc... I feel sorry for the non-athletes who live in the shadow of those glorified athletes. I feel sorry for the glorified athletes, most of whom I think are playing for all the wrong reasons. Most of all, I feel sorry for the community who thinks it's ok to treat kids the way they do.
Strangely enough, I used to think I didn't want any son of mine playing football either, but lo and behold, my 12 year old starts his 5th year of it soon. We've had MANY conversations about good sportsmanship, how to treat the other team (and his own), what benefits he gets out of it (including just plain fun). He's also a skater, as are a few of his teammates, and into video games (we play SWG together sometimes), and is curious about the inner workings of technology. Oh, and he's a trombone player. I think as long as his mother and I continue treating him like a person, and actually parenting (strange concepts these days) he's going to turn out just fine.
p.s. did you ever watch Friday Night Lights? I really thought Tim McGraw's character summed up the Permian parents who push their kids to play harder because their own dreams of leaving town were crushed when they didn't get an athletic scholarship.
Remember, MTV doesn't put out anything. They simply regurgitate the videos that their market research indicates will gain them the best advertising dollars based on the viewers they target.
Basically, they play crap because the majority of teenagers want crap.
I resent that you generically lump all athletes, or more specifically football players, into one category. I won't suggest that all of my teammates were a shining example of model citizens. They, however, were the minority in my school's athletic program. If you firmly believe that no good comes out of the items I pointed out, then I would suggest you're more close minded than the football players you mock.
You do realize that it's competitive nature that makes people strive for better results. That can be used in a team environment where, as you point out, we're helping each other. Competition is NOT always trying to best someone else for your own glory.
There's also a significant emphasis on instilling fearless aggressiveness in the players during practices that you don't have in other sports.
True, unless you consider hockey, boxing, and wrestling sports.
I get your point though, and I do agree with you, for the most part. I also played high school basketball, and college volleyball. While all are team sports, and all require that you do a specific job, or the entire team suffers, there's a subtle difference. In football, your teammate stands a chance of getting hurt if you don't do your job, adding to the pressure. You don't find that in many other sports, and certainly not in the academic challenge another poster mentioned.
But don't you think that counting on machines to handle all of our labor is a bad idea? What if something goes wrong?
On the contrary, an MMO teaches no such thing. There is a difference between how people act when face to face with someone else, and how they act through their ISP. I play SWG and can cite a few examples of that playing itself out.
Sad.... I mean, I get it, but too close to the mentality of the majority...
Yes, because tennis and golf teach teamwork.... somehow.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with football players, but it's patently obvious that you have no experience with team sports yourself. I can tell you I learned none of the above in my years in team sports.
p.s. the only injury I still have from all of the sports I played (age 7 through college competitively) is the remnants from a torn rotator cuff... from golf.
You must have known my freshman coach :)
Nice... I looked for the author of the LA Times article, but didn't see it.
And a programmer... have you never tried to lay your thoughts out quickly and typed the wrong word?
I think Taco failed to read into the author's sarcasm regarding football, but that's ok.
The author of the article seems to have taken some of their ideas from the recent Discover Magazine article titled Your Brain on Video Games. A very interesting read, a lot of which I agree with.
I'm a parent, a geek, and a former athelete (yes, it's possible). Our children (ages 8-15 now) have their homework time and we (they?) split their entertainment up between going outside to play, video games, nonsensical tv, and educational tv (of course, with a few random things thrown in to boot). On top of that, we ask that they play one sport of their choosing, and one instrument of their choosing. The mention of football in the description is a bit misleading. Some of the good things football teaches are
- How to work with other people
- How to get along with people you may not like
- Discipline and focus, with regard to achieving a goal
- Planning and stragety
- Competitiveness, which certainly can help later in life if applied correctly
Other things are learned by playing instruments such as math (in different bases), appreciation for different cultures, etc... but that's a bit off topic here.Video games can actually teach children as well. However, when they start to focus all of their freetime on video games, rather than other forms of entertainment, I think they're mission out on quite a bit. Everything in moderation.