Also please recall that these men are billionaires of international industry. Their efforts are in no way nationalistic. Their motives are profit and only in a tiny fraction, humanistic.
Let me answer that again in a more socially aware way. I regret that I can't delete my prior answer, but that's the nature of/.
Resources in space are far apart. It should be some time before we argue over them. Several of these endeavors could occur contemporaneously without conflict. One would hope that we would agree to participate in one together for mutual benefit. Certainly this endeavor may be a commercial endeavor that Russia can participate in both by investing and by selling accumulated knowlege of space, and the primaries will no doubt reach out to Russia for such an opportunity to participate. But even absent a deal, the project is still going to move forward.
They may involve Russia still absent a partnership deal, if your launch rates are competitive and your programs adequately permissive. You might yet participate in these immense profits in ways greater or lesser. But no promises without a signed contract, OK?
It's this simple: You do what you want with your money and they do what they want with theirs. You don't have to tell them your plans, and they don't have to tell you theirs. If your plans and theirs create a conflict somebody might have to resolve it, but I don't see that happening because you're some random/. jerk and they are some of the most successful and intelligent humans on Earth. They have hundreds of billions of dollars to put in play and I'm guessing you've got about tree fitty, or maybe on the far end a deuce.
Dude, do you know how I know you're not a programmer? If you can't draw a direct line from 90% of the Java APIs to the C libraries, you seriously suck as a codemonkey because Java was originally a JIT wrapper for C and they folded in the CLibs as a matter of course. The CLib APIs currently under dispute in this lawsuit don't even belong to Java, nor Oracle.
If Oracle wins this one and gains copyrightabilty of languages and APIs they are completely, totally and inextractably hosed. They would then not own any of the intellecual property they are and have been licensing (including JAVA and their own SQL product), because it belongs to Attachmate (who now owns C, derived from Novell who bought USL) or IBM (who invented SQL). They will have committed judicial suicide.
Y'know what? You have the right stuff in your bag mostly. And I'm going to beat you with it mercilessly it anyway. That's not fair, really, but that's how it is. Thanks for the list.
These obvious advantages haven't amounted to a successful Windows tablet for the last 17 years, when they've been available and not sold well the whole time. What makes this new one different?
It's hard to criticize the iPad. They are making them as fast as they can and selling every one at huge margin. It's just impossible under that condition to make a compelling argument that the product is missing something it really needs. You can't sell more than "all of them".
What these guys are doing probably WILL lead to mining the moon. Because the asteroids have water, and that water can be made into LH2/LO2 fuel that makes mining the moon not only possible but profitable - especially mining the moon for more water to make into even more fuel to sustain other space efforts. They should be able to SELL that fuel, water and oxygen at huge rates to other people who want to do things in space. But they have to get the asteroids first.
It's all about the water. If you can get water, make it into rocket fuel and deliver it to LEO by the kiloton you can make a grip of money selling it to people who would otherwise have to spend tens of billions to throw that mass up out of our gravity well. You don't even have to say you own it - you can charge for delivery only to settle the legal niceties.
Global warming is likely to lead to a de-desertification of Africa anyway, as increasing equatorial heat increases the absorption of water by the air over the Atlantic. But it's still Africa.
You're right about the water. But a 500 ton asteroid is about 7 meters in diameter. The linked pdf is really neat - it's got a lot of interesting details. Once you build it into a space station, yeah, then it'll be as big as the ISS.
You are correct about the hydrox fuel also, sort of. The first one has to be Xenon, but they did figure they'd need about 40 tons of LH2/LO2 to bring back 1000 tons of asteroid that is about 40% water. So successive trips can be done with LH2/LO2 once you've got a boat and some fuel, and of course if you can use part of the asteroid itself for fuel.... With LH2/LO2 you can also bring back much larger asteroids. Or you can go down to the moon and get unlimited water from the moon's poles at that point. It becomes an energy problem only, rather than both a materials and energy problem.
I've been thinking about Ceres. That one is entirely covered in ice (more water than all the Earth's oceans). If you're refining water into rocket fuel all you have to do is get your gear out there and Ceres has the fuel for the return trip. The upside is that we don't have to find it. We know where that one is. The DAWN mission is about to go out that way. (am not talking about bringing back the whole minor planet, just some water). Surface gravity is just.03g, so landing and blasting off is no big deal. The downside is that it's not a near-earth asteroid so travel time is a drag. But there's no limit to how much water you can bring back.
Once you have an unlimited fuel depot in orbit around the moon though you can do some really neat things. Manned craft only have to get to LEO, and can be met with the rest of the fuel they need to go anywhere in the Solar system. Things like habitat modules could be lifted to LEO, where they're met by robot rockets that can move them into whatever place we want them. Not having to launch with all the fuel, water and air for the whole trip opens up everything. Maybe some robotic gardens or something could be arranged as well. That would be really cool.
I'm getting very excited about this project. I am told that the project is for real, though the other stuff above is speculation.
You want to mine the moon? Fine. Gather up some money and go mine the moon. These guys, they want to go get an asteroid. It's their money. It's not like they're asking you to pay for it.
I'm just going to go with the idea that the people involved didn't come to be some of the most successful people on Earth through being crazy or stupid.
Sadly, people aren't very good at taking a long-term view, in general.
Apparently some are. And they have enough money to see this through. This project is going to actually happen. It's going to be privately funded, so it's not subject to NASA budget cuts.
The people involved stand to make a lot of money doing it, too. Huge money.
The point is not bringing it to the ground. The point is keeping that stuff up high, and doing stuff with it.
How cheaply? The people involved between them have enough money in their own right to fund the NASA proposal 20 times over out of their own pockets. They're not NASA though, so the answer is "cheaply enough".
This is not some pie-in-the-sky dream, either. These are successful businessmen who achieve their objectives and turn a profit. If they open it up to public funding investors will pour in.
Incidentally, asteroids pass between the Earth and the Moon all the time. Tipping one a little closer to the moon so it's captured should not be that big of a deal.
This is actually going to happen, and I think it's really neat.
I'm a big fan of this project, but your thinking here is all wrong. When things deorbit they travel on a vast arc through many thousands of miles of atmosphere. The atmosphere is not really very thick, and it's possible for an asteroid to drill straight in vertically.
If this goes as badly as I think it will, the media industry's fangs will be pulled out. They will no longer get to use the US DOJ as their sockpuppet.
Slashdot Mirror
Let's talk about max() then, which figures prominently. Can you find a similar in the C API?
Also please recall that these men are billionaires of international industry. Their efforts are in no way nationalistic. Their motives are profit and only in a tiny fraction, humanistic.
Let me answer that again in a more socially aware way. I regret that I can't delete my prior answer, but that's the nature of /.
Resources in space are far apart. It should be some time before we argue over them. Several of these endeavors could occur contemporaneously without conflict. One would hope that we would agree to participate in one together for mutual benefit. Certainly this endeavor may be a commercial endeavor that Russia can participate in both by investing and by selling accumulated knowlege of space, and the primaries will no doubt reach out to Russia for such an opportunity to participate. But even absent a deal, the project is still going to move forward.
They may involve Russia still absent a partnership deal, if your launch rates are competitive and your programs adequately permissive. You might yet participate in these immense profits in ways greater or lesser. But no promises without a signed contract, OK?
It's this simple: You do what you want with your money and they do what they want with theirs. You don't have to tell them your plans, and they don't have to tell you theirs. If your plans and theirs create a conflict somebody might have to resolve it, but I don't see that happening because you're some random /. jerk and they are some of the most successful and intelligent humans on Earth. They have hundreds of billions of dollars to put in play and I'm guessing you've got about tree fitty, or maybe on the far end a deuce.
Dude, do you know how I know you're not a programmer? If you can't draw a direct line from 90% of the Java APIs to the C libraries, you seriously suck as a codemonkey because Java was originally a JIT wrapper for C and they folded in the CLibs as a matter of course. The CLib APIs currently under dispute in this lawsuit don't even belong to Java, nor Oracle.
If Oracle wins this one and gains copyrightabilty of languages and APIs they are completely, totally and inextractably hosed. They would then not own any of the intellecual property they are and have been licensing (including JAVA and their own SQL product), because it belongs to Attachmate (who now owns C, derived from Novell who bought USL) or IBM (who invented SQL). They will have committed judicial suicide.
It was modded funny. So we have all lost unless the moderators understand that we laugh because we dare not cry.
This is why Africa has no friends.
Y'know what? You have the right stuff in your bag mostly. And I'm going to beat you with it mercilessly it anyway. That's not fair, really, but that's how it is. Thanks for the list.
These obvious advantages haven't amounted to a successful Windows tablet for the last 17 years, when they've been available and not sold well the whole time. What makes this new one different?
It's hard to criticize the iPad. They are making them as fast as they can and selling every one at huge margin. It's just impossible under that condition to make a compelling argument that the product is missing something it really needs. You can't sell more than "all of them".
Yeah, that's what I said. De-desertification. As in grassland.
What these guys are doing probably WILL lead to mining the moon. Because the asteroids have water, and that water can be made into LH2/LO2 fuel that makes mining the moon not only possible but profitable - especially mining the moon for more water to make into even more fuel to sustain other space efforts. They should be able to SELL that fuel, water and oxygen at huge rates to other people who want to do things in space. But they have to get the asteroids first.
It's all about the water. If you can get water, make it into rocket fuel and deliver it to LEO by the kiloton you can make a grip of money selling it to people who would otherwise have to spend tens of billions to throw that mass up out of our gravity well. You don't even have to say you own it - you can charge for delivery only to settle the legal niceties.
Global warming is likely to lead to a de-desertification of Africa anyway, as increasing equatorial heat increases the absorption of water by the air over the Atlantic. But it's still Africa.
Yeah, I haven't ever been to Africa either.
You're right about the water. But a 500 ton asteroid is about 7 meters in diameter. The linked pdf is really neat - it's got a lot of interesting details. Once you build it into a space station, yeah, then it'll be as big as the ISS.
You are correct about the hydrox fuel also, sort of. The first one has to be Xenon, but they did figure they'd need about 40 tons of LH2/LO2 to bring back 1000 tons of asteroid that is about 40% water. So successive trips can be done with LH2/LO2 once you've got a boat and some fuel, and of course if you can use part of the asteroid itself for fuel.... With LH2/LO2 you can also bring back much larger asteroids. Or you can go down to the moon and get unlimited water from the moon's poles at that point. It becomes an energy problem only, rather than both a materials and energy problem.
I've been thinking about Ceres. That one is entirely covered in ice (more water than all the Earth's oceans). If you're refining water into rocket fuel all you have to do is get your gear out there and Ceres has the fuel for the return trip. The upside is that we don't have to find it. We know where that one is. The DAWN mission is about to go out that way. (am not talking about bringing back the whole minor planet, just some water). Surface gravity is just .03g, so landing and blasting off is no big deal. The downside is that it's not a near-earth asteroid so travel time is a drag. But there's no limit to how much water you can bring back.
Once you have an unlimited fuel depot in orbit around the moon though you can do some really neat things. Manned craft only have to get to LEO, and can be met with the rest of the fuel they need to go anywhere in the Solar system. Things like habitat modules could be lifted to LEO, where they're met by robot rockets that can move them into whatever place we want them. Not having to launch with all the fuel, water and air for the whole trip opens up everything. Maybe some robotic gardens or something could be arranged as well. That would be really cool.
I'm getting very excited about this project. I am told that the project is for real, though the other stuff above is speculation.
The pdf specifically references a chondrite that's unlikely to be dangerous anyway. For all I know they might find one that's headed straight for us.
You want to mine the moon? Fine. Gather up some money and go mine the moon. These guys, they want to go get an asteroid. It's their money. It's not like they're asking you to pay for it.
I'm just going to go with the idea that the people involved didn't come to be some of the most successful people on Earth through being crazy or stupid.
Sadly, people aren't very good at taking a long-term view, in general.
Apparently some are. And they have enough money to see this through. This project is going to actually happen. It's going to be privately funded, so it's not subject to NASA budget cuts.
The people involved stand to make a lot of money doing it, too. Huge money.
The point is not bringing it to the ground. The point is keeping that stuff up high, and doing stuff with it.
How cheaply? The people involved between them have enough money in their own right to fund the NASA proposal 20 times over out of their own pockets. They're not NASA though, so the answer is "cheaply enough".
This is not some pie-in-the-sky dream, either. These are successful businessmen who achieve their objectives and turn a profit. If they open it up to public funding investors will pour in.
Incidentally, asteroids pass between the Earth and the Moon all the time. Tipping one a little closer to the moon so it's captured should not be that big of a deal.
This is actually going to happen, and I think it's really neat.
This is also a very good idea. Meteorites fetch a good bit.
I'm a big fan of this project, but your thinking here is all wrong. When things deorbit they travel on a vast arc through many thousands of miles of atmosphere. The atmosphere is not really very thick, and it's possible for an asteroid to drill straight in vertically.
We fear change. It's a survival characteristic.
Remember that if you buy both sides it doesn't matter who wins.
If this goes as badly as I think it will, the media industry's fangs will be pulled out. They will no longer get to use the US DOJ as their sockpuppet.