I think its made out to be far worse than it is. Everybody locks you in at some time or another, I use a mac and I don't feel locked in. I *could* go back to windows... if i wanted... not because of Apple but because of MS's crapness.
3 words caught my eye, "never used" and "looked", says it all, go to the apple store and try one but use it and do more than look. How you can say they are unintuitive is beyond me when they have guidelines for proper UI designs and they are known for their UI. I notice you didn't list any examples either.
Not flaming you, just giving you a nudge to open that mind. I'm on my 3rd in less than 12 months (not due to failures mind you), with windows I had 4 for 3 years!
I gave up moderating this thread to reply to you.
I agree with this statement, its similar to what i do now with music, there is hardly anything i like these days except for a few favourite bands and i still buy them knowing they don't cater for the single market but i still like music.
What do you do? Buy music from the past, i've got into music i wouldn't of tought purchasing before. I have a taste for david bowie, Miles davis and other jazz classics...again the music makers are not giving me what i want, just like the gamers soon.
Yeah sorry but its seems silly for people to insist that we say GNU/linux as its proper name because it sound silly in the real world, saying it the way i have makes sense and its in english.
Wouldn't WE all prefer it to be the case? But thankyou for answering this question, its been bugging me for months. But i don't think it has to be cheap, if say (i will use photoshop this time) Adobe release PS for Genulinux why should it be a different price to windows or OSX?
As long as they port the software and keep it the same price there should be no issue, they already halfway do it with OSX anyway with it having a BSD core.
... will GenuLinux get the software it needs to make it on the desktop?
Why is it hard to release a well known application for linux? I won't suggest photoshop because somebody will remind me about GIMP and totally sidetrack the question.
But why is there resistance to releasing an a high end application on GenuLinux? The way i see it, the don't want to touch the GPL and i keep hearing that as the cause for resistance. But DO you have to add to the GPL, i thought you could just release the app and make people buy it (like any other app), why the connotations that Genulinux users have to have it for free or won't pay just because the OS is?
I don't think it has anything to do with MS either for say Adobe to release an application for GenuLinux. I think they might be confused as I am, moreso when i see photoshop ported to linux using WINE.
I noted what you said by agreeing with it. I wasn't nitpicking or anything. I use to buy my tech like you but now i cannot be bothered with setting up a system and getting it to work, whether it be windows or linux. I actually had fun with linux but in the end i didn't use the system, i kept trying to get the system to work and iron small issues out. In the end i bought a mac and i don't do anything but use it. But if i want to upgrade I'd rather get an external drive and be done with it. I have a laptop anyway so its hard doing 'some' upgrades!;)
You list 3rd party upgrades for pricing their products to high. Yeah I do agree with that but that isn't Apples fault. On the subject of upgradability, alot of people don't want that, they just want something that works and buy an Apple with that in mind.
Don't forget Apple machines have a higher resale value as well.
I think you need to understand one thing first.
Apple isn't the same as MS.
Apple are a hardware company unlike MS who are a software company. Some may say Apple is a solutions company, very different and puts Apple in a different light to MS.
Another thing to make clear is that you have choice with Apple, unlike MS who force their products onto you. If say i didn't want to use ANY of Apples software products then all I have to do is delete them, nothing is stopping me. Not so true with MS, everything is integrated and linked therefore abusing its position because competitors cannot compete and lets not forget who owns the OS as well and forces the likes of DELL, HP to use soley their OS otherwise be penalised in OS discounts.
Apple however have always owned everything from the hardware to the software so its all theirs and they are not a monopoly even in their own OS environment, its neutral. No applications are trying to control your system or subvert itself onto you. If i want to delete something then I do it. All programming langauges are equal on OSX, none are favoured and dual booting is welcome, infact instead of dual booting one could install X11 and simply run UNIX and Linux environments ontop of OSX.
Just because they control the whole system doesn't make them a monopoly, its when you control the market. So what if they are overpriced you would think they shouldn't survive in a cut throat market as the PC market but they do and they are not going out of business or "dying" as some would have it.
Lastly, Apple use standards that everyone can use on other machines or platforms. MS use their own standards and forces lock-in when people use them, again a difference, enough to widen the difference from being a monopoly.
Finally, where have you been when slashdot discusses pricing with Apple systems? The Xserve IS the cheapest server solution on the planet with NO per seat licensing, the G5 in its class is also competitive and its only the aging G4 which is bumping up the price of those macs that use those processors. I'm not rich, i'm a student and i'm on my second mac, to stereotype people using OSX as being rich is plain wrong. Apple also offer developer discounts (20%) besides the student discounts (10%), who else does this and provide developer tools worth $$$$ for free with the OS? Try that with an MS system. you as a developer should understand the importance of this. While i agree they cost more initially, over a period of time they work out cheaper, as mentioned the per seat licensing with Xserves and the free developer tools with every purchase (after discount). Software isn't an issue either, from what i have seen its actually cheaper so i don't understand that point
Without sounding callous, i think you should have a look at one of the systems Apple offers and REALLY read about it, plus you would be doing yourself a favour by updating on what you don't know because your argument went out of date last year.
Slashdot Mirror
Sunday isn't even a business day? How much money will they not lose?
Yeah and what happens if all the robot factories are destroyed, do the humans sit idle when the nations that are fighting run out of robots?
Try controlling radio frequencies never mind speficially laying pipe for conventional net access.
...if it works, leave it?
I was simply describing what goes on, its enevitable with whatever you buy. But yes apple should
You sterotype me but don't know me but base your whole perception of me on a few words i typed... yeah.
Thanks, thats a real informative post.
But you don't... why should i feel bitter?
I just downloaded a 4 meg image, they never heard of us or something?
Products fail... companies made them...
I think its made out to be far worse than it is. Everybody locks you in at some time or another, I use a mac and I don't feel locked in. I *could* go back to windows... if i wanted... not because of Apple but because of MS's crapness.
3 words caught my eye, "never used" and "looked", says it all, go to the apple store and try one but use it and do more than look. How you can say they are unintuitive is beyond me when they have guidelines for proper UI designs and they are known for their UI. I notice you didn't list any examples either.
Not flaming you, just giving you a nudge to open that mind. I'm on my 3rd in less than 12 months (not due to failures mind you), with windows I had 4 for 3 years!
You can remove the HDD's its not like there is 40 screws or anthing keeping it there... oh wait, there is!
I gave up moderating this thread to reply to you.
I agree with this statement, its similar to what i do now with music, there is hardly anything i like these days except for a few favourite bands and i still buy them knowing they don't cater for the single market but i still like music.
What do you do? Buy music from the past, i've got into music i wouldn't of tought purchasing before. I have a taste for david bowie, Miles davis and other jazz classics...again the music makers are not giving me what i want, just like the gamers soon.
Fair enough but you don't represent the majority of people in any case.
Yes but its use is limited when compared to other applications. Anyway why the fuck are you nitpicking!
Yeah sorry but its seems silly for people to insist that we say GNU/linux as its proper name because it sound silly in the real world, saying it the way i have makes sense and its in english.
Ah but, once you lower the price for a particular platform its seen as that OS is being favoured... would that help say Adobe if they did that?
I didn't mean those ones, the ones which we can all use for general stuff.
Wouldn't WE all prefer it to be the case? But thankyou for answering this question, its been bugging me for months. But i don't think it has to be cheap, if say (i will use photoshop this time) Adobe release PS for Genulinux why should it be a different price to windows or OSX? As long as they port the software and keep it the same price there should be no issue, they already halfway do it with OSX anyway with it having a BSD core.
Whatever, i write it the way i pronouce it. At leasy i pronouce it right unlike the other commie bastards!
... will GenuLinux get the software it needs to make it on the desktop?
Why is it hard to release a well known application for linux? I won't suggest photoshop because somebody will remind me about GIMP and totally sidetrack the question.
But why is there resistance to releasing an a high end application on GenuLinux? The way i see it, the don't want to touch the GPL and i keep hearing that as the cause for resistance. But DO you have to add to the GPL, i thought you could just release the app and make people buy it (like any other app), why the connotations that Genulinux users have to have it for free or won't pay just because the OS is?
I don't think it has anything to do with MS either for say Adobe to release an application for GenuLinux. I think they might be confused as I am, moreso when i see photoshop ported to linux using WINE.
I noted what you said by agreeing with it. I wasn't nitpicking or anything. I use to buy my tech like you but now i cannot be bothered with setting up a system and getting it to work, whether it be windows or linux. I actually had fun with linux but in the end i didn't use the system, i kept trying to get the system to work and iron small issues out. In the end i bought a mac and i don't do anything but use it. But if i want to upgrade I'd rather get an external drive and be done with it. I have a laptop anyway so its hard doing 'some' upgrades! ;)
You list 3rd party upgrades for pricing their products to high. Yeah I do agree with that but that isn't Apples fault. On the subject of upgradability, alot of people don't want that, they just want something that works and buy an Apple with that in mind.
Don't forget Apple machines have a higher resale value as well.
I think you need to understand one thing first.
Apple isn't the same as MS.
Apple are a hardware company unlike MS who are a software company. Some may say Apple is a solutions company, very different and puts Apple in a different light to MS.
Another thing to make clear is that you have choice with Apple, unlike MS who force their products onto you. If say i didn't want to use ANY of Apples software products then all I have to do is delete them, nothing is stopping me. Not so true with MS, everything is integrated and linked therefore abusing its position because competitors cannot compete and lets not forget who owns the OS as well and forces the likes of DELL, HP to use soley their OS otherwise be penalised in OS discounts.
Apple however have always owned everything from the hardware to the software so its all theirs and they are not a monopoly even in their own OS environment, its neutral. No applications are trying to control your system or subvert itself onto you. If i want to delete something then I do it. All programming langauges are equal on OSX, none are favoured and dual booting is welcome, infact instead of dual booting one could install X11 and simply run UNIX and Linux environments ontop of OSX.
Just because they control the whole system doesn't make them a monopoly, its when you control the market. So what if they are overpriced you would think they shouldn't survive in a cut throat market as the PC market but they do and they are not going out of business or "dying" as some would have it.
Lastly, Apple use standards that everyone can use on other machines or platforms. MS use their own standards and forces lock-in when people use them, again a difference, enough to widen the difference from being a monopoly.
Finally, where have you been when slashdot discusses pricing with Apple systems? The Xserve IS the cheapest server solution on the planet with NO per seat licensing, the G5 in its class is also competitive and its only the aging G4 which is bumping up the price of those macs that use those processors. I'm not rich, i'm a student and i'm on my second mac, to stereotype people using OSX as being rich is plain wrong. Apple also offer developer discounts (20%) besides the student discounts (10%), who else does this and provide developer tools worth $$$$ for free with the OS? Try that with an MS system. you as a developer should understand the importance of this. While i agree they cost more initially, over a period of time they work out cheaper, as mentioned the per seat licensing with Xserves and the free developer tools with every purchase (after discount). Software isn't an issue either, from what i have seen its actually cheaper so i don't understand that point
Without sounding callous, i think you should have a look at one of the systems Apple offers and REALLY read about it, plus you would be doing yourself a favour by updating on what you don't know because your argument went out of date last year.