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Confessions of a Mac OS X User
An anonymous reader writes "Here's an interesting commentary on OSDir.com about one Mac OS X user's guilt over using it instead of Linux on his laptop, and how he's been burned by the dreaded iBook logic board problems so much that it underlines the tyranny of hardware vendor lock-in: it's not that Mac OS X isn't F/OSS, but that it only runs on Apple hardware. It also raises the obvious question: have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?"
have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?
You'll have to ask my ex-wife; she took the Mac.
Trolling is a art,
iDidn't do it.
I don't know what is up with this guy. His logic board gets fried, so he says that he can't stand hardware lock-in. It seems like just a rant, and doesn't really make sense. if he didn't like the hardware, he should have just sold the iBook on Ebay, instead of just keeping it. Running Linux won't fix the logic board, and he will be back to having the same problems that he had with his Dell(No Linux Compatibility with Linksys Wireless card.)
I use OS X as part of my job. Why should I feel guilty?
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
It's pretty far down on the things I feel guilty about. I'm a middle-class white American male, you insensitive clod!
I've never felt guilty about using Mac. That smug self assurance from not seeing Windows every morning lets me avoid any real critical thought about the choice.
Sometimes I feel guilty about useless navel-gazing, as should anyone who bases computer usage on guilt. Good God, use it or don't, and stop whining about it!
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
tap. tap. tap. ......
click. click. click.
mmm......
no.
Apple have come up with some innovative products, but their market share remains tiny. Sadly, though, many buyers have been mislead by the marketing and eye-candy, and desperately try to justify their overpriced purchases to themselves on forums around the Net. Let's see what they really mean...
"MacOS X is everything Linux wants to be."
"Despite the fact that Linux is just code and can't WANT to be anything, I truly believe that it'd love to be a single-vendor, single-platform, sluggish half-proprietary OS with dwindling market share. Linux would love to throw away its impressively growing corporate takeup for that."
"Apple hardware is for real computer lovers."
"It's no hassle to use a plethora of keyboard combos to make up for the patronising one-button mouse. Despite the fact that my hands have FIVE fingers, and multiple-buttons make Web browsing so much more pleasant, I prefer my computer to be treat me like a special-needs child."
"Aqua makes me so much more productive!"
"My non-techie friends drool over the transparency and scaling effects, even though UI research has shown that they add practically nothing to getting real work done. It feels like KDE 2 on a Pentium 200, and I can't change to a light and fast WM, but those drop-shadows must make me work so quickly!"
"OSX shows that Apple is committed to open source."
"OpenDarwin.org and its community of about 27 is surely not just a token gesture by Apple. Pretty much nobody uses pure Darwin, and all the crucial components of the system are closed and require me to spend money just to get major OS updates, but they're really helping the community somehow."
"You get what you pay for with Apple hardware."
"My iBook was made by in Taiwan by AlphaTop and has design and build quality flaws (needing foam sheets jammed in to stop the common problem of the keyboard scratching the screen). Meanwhile thousands of Mac laptop owners are trying to sue Apple over poorly-made logic boards. But it's silvery and cost far more than an x86 laptop of better spec, so it must be much higher quality!"
"...blah blah MHz myth blah..."
"Although there's truth in PPC being more elegant than x86, it's crushing that the top-of-the-range 1.5 GHz chip is slaughtered by the equivalent 3 GHz Pentium 4. However, Steve Jobs showed some vague Photoshop filter benchmarks at the last MacWorld, so being a leprotard, I'm convinced."
Well, maybe this should have been a poll instead ;)
What, are you crazy?
I would so much rather run this than just about any Linux distro out there. Mainly because I can guarantee my vendor is available on the phone when I need them to troubleshoot any of the funky ass things servers tend to do.
And no, you can't come to my site or have a look at my logs because it's secure, just tell me what error code -16246 means in your software, ok, thanks, bye.
Don't Ask Questions. I don't know the answers and even if I did I wouldn't tell you.
from the let-the-flamewar-commence dept.
No more than I feel guilty for drinking champagne instead of Champale...
I fell guilty about using Windows XP.... opps, sorry wrong subject.
-B
I feel guilty of using windows...but not so much, since its a pirate copy... :)
No, I haven't.
I think Linux has a loooong way to go as a desktop OS. The word from LinuxWorld was "It's not quite there yet.." which means that other people feel the same way.
Mac OS X just works. It has applications that I need to get along. I like having some games. I like having stuff like iSync & iTunes. Yes, I know there's Linux apps, but I like how everything works *together* and isn't an ugly kludge. See, at work, I need to get *work* done.. I don't have time to futz around with Xconfig.
I have never ever felt guilty about using Mac OS X instead of Linux on my Apple hardware.
Linux goes on the *x86* hardware anyway.
What a silly article.
Christ, I wish I could mod the original article -1 Troll.
/.
This has to be one of the more useless articles I've read on
When my Dell died, I had to go to Dell for warrantee work. I hate vendor lock in!
Ehhh, no. I love OS X.
I've felt bad about using WINDOWS, though. I don't see an Ask Slashdot about that.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I seriously doubt the average OS X user would feel even the least bit guilty. Hell, the average user doesn't even know what Linux is or that fact that OS X is unix-based. Most OSX users don't contribute to the open source community anyway, they're too busy using iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto, iExcellentPackagedSoftware to feel guilty.
Sometimes I feel guilty about doing some work, while I am trying to read Slashdot.
>> have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?
Hell no. I only ever use Linux for servers.
Using any of the window managers that ship with Linux makes me love my OS X box even more.
And hardware lockin is a double-edged sword. If the hardware is of poor quality is is indeed a problem but I have never had an issue with any of the Apple hardware I have owned that I couldn't get fixed by an Apple tech in a few days.
Can't say that for some of the x86 beige box machines I've owned that I've had Linux on.
and OS X is BSD which is BETTER
Linux is not on par with mac os x as a desktop system. Maybe someday, but not yet. In this instance you get what you payfor. My webserver is linux and that works fine-- no way would I pay for mac to run my domain, its just to expensive. I love linux but I will only use it where it is the best solution.
Just like programming: java, perl, c++ depends on the solution I need to solve.
Jonathan
I use Gentoo.
Guilt implies that you've done something wrong. So why would I feel guilty about using a certain OS? This is really getting out of hand. If you feel guilty about using OS X instead of Linux you need professional help.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
Now this is personal opinion, and I am sure I am inviting plenty of flames, so... here goes.
I don't think anyone should feel ashamed for not using linux as their desktop. Fact of the matter is, any OS claiming to be linux is just a mess of free software utilities and applications, on a unixy type setup.
While there have been a few noble attempts at actually building an OS from the linux kernel, it ends up being no more then repackaging the same crap in a more "shiny" way.
The linux kernel is a good base for an OS. Until something other then a Unix clone is made from it, I will stand tall to the fact that I wont use it for my desktop.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
Every once in a while I feel a twinge of guilt over using an OS (Mac OS X) that, while based on an open-source foundation, isn't truly free the way Linux is. I believe strongly in the F/OSS model and would love to see it take over the software world, so shouldn't I be doing my part?
And then I look at the current state of the Linux desktop: it's pretty much caught up to Windows, but it's got a long way to go before it matches the Mac. I switched from M$ to Apple when I realized how much Windows sucked in comparison to the MacOS, and I've never really regretted that decision, so why would I want to take a step backwards? At the end of the day, I'm a pragmatist, not an ideologue. Use what works, not what someone else tells you that you should use because it's morally superior (Linux) or what everyone else is using (Windows).
Right here, right now, OS X lets me get my work done faster, more efficiently, and more enjoyably than any other OS. If that changes, maybe my choice of OS will too. It hasn't happened yet, and honestly I don't expect that it will any time soon.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
About using a superior desktop product?
Sorry, I feel no guilt in using the right tool for the right job.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I thought I would feel guilty when I bought my powerbook last month, but I don't. OS X and the PB is much better than suse 9.0 and my old Dell inspiron8200. The os is just better and it is Unix based. Once you go mac you never go back, trust me.
here
This has to be the fastest slashdotting of a story!
http://slushdot.org/mirror/osdir/article434.html
It's all I got before she died!
If you're feeling "guilty" about using a particular OS over another one, you need to ask yourself what you're using the OS in question for in the first place. Because it suites your needs or because it
If you buy something like a Mac and then feel guilty about using OSX on it, geez man, it's time to get a lithium prescription unless you really feel like running Linux on it would give you something that OSX can't, other than any perceived or actual ethical/theological dogma.
...smoke smoke smoke. And the whole logic board disappeared. And it was a good logic board! Needless to say, my fedexed replacement logic board wasn't nearly as good, and I blame that logic board for my guilt.
One thing that annoys me is that there is no way the user can service (replace or remove) the hard disks.
My ibook has suffered 2 motherboard failures, and the machine would not even boot in firewire mode. I wished I could just remove the disk, and send the laptop for service (the service people don't need to see my files!)
The laptops I owned previously (IBM and dell) both allowed me to remove the disk.
I've never used an Apple product in my life. I have looked at OSX a few times but find it very unintuitive and I don't much care for beeing locked into ONE vendor for both software and hardware, pluss the fact that anything branded Apple is as expensive as a minor nuclear device.
I know I'm going to be flamed by the 1337 Apple zealots but i couldn't care less.
If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
I've been a medium-level Linux sys admin for a number of years. But I'm also a web designer, and recently I decided that I needed to get a notebook. The decision to go with an iBook was almost a no-brainer: I wanted professional applications instead of almost-professional, and I didn't want to worry about incompatibilities, libraries, GNOME buggering itself, etc. And it has been marvelous. Now that I've replaced my linux box with a dedicated DSL router, I hardly ever turn it on.
Overall, perhaps I do feel a bit guilty. I wish Sodipodi, The Gimp, and Bluefish were more stable and competitive with FreeHand, Fireworks, and Dreamweaver. And while I've used all of those applications to do some advanced things, it is simply easier and faster for me to use my Macromedia apps. Sure they cost me a few (student) dollars, but they've been worth every penny. (and yes, I started with MacGIMP, which at least is better than WinGIMP).
But the best part is that I've stopped screwing around on the computer, thus freeing me up for other more important life activites (wife, for instance).
I think that he is going to try to load Linux on his Power Book. That's a followup story I'd like to see! I don't know if it is possiable, but he seemed to have trouble getting an wireless card running....
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
I only tried a Mac (Powerbook) less than a week ago. I used to own one of the early macs in the mid 80s that I loved but I felt frustrated by proprietary cuteness. I find Mac today has even more of the wonderful aesthetic appeal and is *much* more open thanks to the unix basis and the work of many. So I consider it the best of all worlds for my laptop needs. I love Linux and have owned several linux desktops and laptops. But the Powerbook is the first computer that has put a big grin on my face every time I use it in many a year. Guilt? Over happy computing?
I've considered a Powerbook, but to be totally honest I haven't seen the stunning build quality that is so often remarked upon in the Mac community. Sure, they're better than cheapo eMachines-type kit, but they're still Taiwanese ODM systems and I keep reading about problems with warping, logic boards failing, screen scratches, duff drives, dodgy touchpads, and so on. I think I'll settle on a Thinkpad or Toshiba Sat Pro - they're built like tanks.
By the way, here's the URL of one report I was reading: http://www.insanely-great.com/features/011130.html . Can anyone confirm this guy's musings? It'd be interesting to hear from other Slashdotters on the matter!
Are you _SERIOUS_? Why would I feel guilty about using an operating system that can do everything that linux can, and MORE. Sorry that you've had problems with your hardware, but that's why there's Apple Care.
So do I, but I keep findig places where Linux has the advantage. OS X is a kick-ass server and desktop OS, but Linux is really great for obscure shit, like making that ancient LPT photographic printer into a network printer, or packet-sniffing the network to figure out where all the traffic's coming from.
/dev/hda. Of course there's a bit more to it than that if you actually want it to happen quickly, but if you know your fundamentals it's no hassle.
Hell, I run 200 Macs, but I use Linux boot-CDs to image the ones from the pre-firewire days. It's just easier to have a respawning pair of 'netcat' processes listening on the server than fiddling with open-firmware or netrestore. I just boot the mac with the linux CD, netcat the file down and dd it to
Do I feel guilty about not using Linux? Sometimes, I feel bad for not using Linux on my x86 box here, but I need to run a windows app to track tickets on it. I feel bad for not running a few Linux boxes for the kids to toy with on campus, but if they show an inclination to geekiness I'll be showing them the way to OSS anyway.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
A couple years back my uncle wore some lousy Apple t-shirt when he was fixing his car. He got more sh*t from random people than yankees fan in boston.
Ever since then my uncle gets extremely embarrassed when he mentions he's a mac user. He just doesn't know what to expect next.
Why would iFeel guilty about using OSX? I'm a new PowerBook owner and iFeel having a nice UNIX/BSD/Whatever core under my iHood is a feature. Linux is, as many have stated, not ready for mass desktop usage (though iDisagree, with the latest KDE builds...) so running OSX gives me a system my iFriends, my iMother, my iCoworkers, etc. are more comfortable using while it is secure, powerful, and pretty. That review of BSD yesterday said just that, "Greater server, but the desktop is lacking." OSX gives us Aqua, which solves the desktop problem.
Now, some people will say that using OSX and Apple hardware brainwashes people into supporting Apple blindly. That is not the case. iLove Apple. They have never done anything that iDislike and iHave never noticed any kind of subliminal messages. iLove Apple. iPlan to upgrade and iPlan to stick with this company. iCal tells me to...
"Life's funny sometimes." "And sometimes it isn't." --Cat's Cradle
I want Linux on my G4, but until a distro REALLY supports all of the iBook hardware (airport extreme, built in bluetooth, ati radeon) there ain't nothin' to feel guilty about.
I feel more guilty using Windows.
...he just did not do a good job of making the point.
His main point is that if this happened to you on a PC, you could easily go to another vendor and run the same software on different hardware. Your Dell died and you think it's not going to recover? Drop the drive (or dd, or rsync, or whatever) into an IBM and you're basically good to go.
Because Apple does not let you run OS X on any other hardware, you are completely dependent on them for making your software work. If you get used to a certain environment and certain applications but then the hardware fails, you're screwed.
Not so with anything on the x86 platform. It may not be easy, but linux, Windows, and others can be moved to different hardware from different vendors pretty easily.
In other words, using Apple's software is _both_ software and hardware lock-in, and he hates it.
I thought the guilt thing was silly, tho. Use what works best for you; I find it takes hours more a month to maintain my stupid linux box (often just because it's x86) than my powerbook, even though I do much more crap to the powerbook. I'm certainly not going to feel guilty for just using my computer, instead of maintaining it.
...why would I feel guilty. I can do almost anything I can do with Linux with the additional benefit of apps like iTunes. I've never had a problem using closed source software, I just have a problem with crappy closed source software.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
Why is vender lock in for Apple ok when it's considered bad for anyone else?
Sometimes, when my wife has gone to bed, I stay up late at night with OS X. And when I'm certain everyone in the house is asleep, I go in the office, lock the door, and ... well... I do things. I really put OS X through all the paces.
Sometimes I take extra long showers and my wife bangs on the door telling me to hurry up, but really I'm just in the bathroom with OS X. It's not easy to resist it. Sometimes the urges just overwhelm me.
Once, I with OS X in my car and parked in this little out of the way park. I figured it'd just take a minute and I need some relief, and just as I was starting to use OS X some cops pulled up...
I feel lucky not to use a mac when I see the following:
0 4- 01-27
x
t e=2004- 01-28
Hope QA gets on their feet quickly... After the white-ish-spotted PBs...
http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=20
- Burn baby burn... [2 x updated] - Lionel - 05:58:15
One of our sources, who works for an Apple dealer, experienced what we'll -for now- call a coincidence...
On the same day, three customers brought back their G5 dual, strongly smelling of burned plastic. It seems that, in each case, one of the two processors simply died.
We'll try to get our hands on the machines' serial numbers.
[translation by moose and eric]
[update]
another Mac reseller, not located in France but from another European country, is also reporting to us a recent "burned" PM G5 Dual. In this case , it was necessary to replace most of the computer (PSU, Processors, motherboard,...). The serial number was YM345xxxxxx, corresponding to a PM G5 built between November 3rd and 7th, 2003, and delivered few days later.
Stay tune we will update as soon as we get additional info
[update 2]
hereafter are the serial number of PM G5 which were affected by this "burning phenomenon"
CK347xxxxxx
CK341xxxxxx
CK344xxxxx
So far it is affecting only PM G5 Dual. The last 3 serial numbers were assembled in Cork Apple Plant (CK, Ireland). It also reports that affected models were over weeks 41 to 47 2003.
But be careful, we need more similar reports before concluding that it is statistically significant and that there is a real manufacturing problem with the PM G5
and
http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?da
- Keep burning Baby, keep burning... - Lionel - 08:58:24
Since yesterday, we have had another identical case of burnt G5. This time, it burnt twice: First time 12 hours afer being operational, the second 24 after theirst repair.
Its serial nr. is: YM344XXXXXX
The point seems to be around the week 45 !
Bu don't panic if you bought a computer build in Nov. 2003. We're quite far away from the defective series.
[translation by error404]
I'm guessing you're a troll, but the reason I look favorably upon Apple is that they contribute back to the open source community (KHTML) and give exposure to many open source projects (Mozilla).
True story.
I've used a number of operating systems over the years and while Linux is where I spend more of my time anymore I can't see any reason to feel guilty over using something else if it did the job better and that includes keeping me entertained, which Linux does better than anything else. Who needs games when I've got prism54 drivers to get working?
Seriously though, if you feel guilt for the OS of your choice on top of already being a fucking nerd, you're a fucking loser and you need to never, ever touch a computer again. I haven't even read the article but just the thought of guilt setting in over this shit...? Please, email me your address so I can take a 2x4 to all your hardware and then to you.
10 minutes out and the server's already melted down. How am I supposed to mod comments? Before reading the article?
Slashdot editors should make a special mirror for people with mod points. They ought to be good for something.
Well, I guess I'm just going to mod up the funny comments.
www.eissq.com/BandP.html Ball and Plate System. Amuse your friends. Crush your enemies.
You're taking a real risk of being bitch slapped by one of the editors on slashdot (its happened to me on two other accounts when I criticized Apple & Steve Jobs.) Plus there are hordes of steve job apologists in this forum that will gladly mod you down till there's nothing left but a bloody pulp. Your points are valid, and they are true but this means nothing to a mob of angry apple zealots. Becareful what you say on slashdot, most people here DO NOT respect freedom of speech, especially the mac zealots.
Explain yourself.
Apple uses OSS as the foundation of Mac OS X. Apple uses open standards where it is possible in all aspects of the operating system and their applications. Apple even uses an open processor platform instead of IA-64 or IA-32.
I don't know of anyoen that says this. Monocultures are bad. Interoperability is good.
As far as Netflix Fanatic is concerned, Cricket still works for Apple. What does that tell you?
mbbac
"When in fact Apple is more closed source and proprietary than both of them combined"
???
How can you be "more closed source and proprietary"? I'd love you hear your explanation, including specifics where MS products are "more" open source and less proprietary.
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
Parent is recycling crap. macs have 7 button mouses. the megaherz myth is dead. poster is moron, thinks hes being funny.
So, if you have important "work to do" why would you not have a hot backup machine ready and waiting at all times? For years I've set myself up so any one of my machines could get hit by a sledge hammer and I'd be back up and running within the time it took me to get to my other system and restore some files off a CD. Doesn't everyone do something similar?
I've heard no hardware crap out stories so far about Apple, but what they DO need to make their offering rock solid is on-site support contracts like Dell has - where a person comes to you, bearing a replacement part. I've used this three times in two years, it's been great.
On the other side of the story, comitting to OSX (or any Apple product, or Microsoft product) is comitting to Vendor Lock In.
So stop your whining about "guilt" you little troll boy and use OSS and an more open hardware platform, and then contribute something to the community other than these stupid articles.
Guilty? Nah... I have the opposite problem.
Not since realizing that you get what you pay for.
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
You must be referring to OS9 NOT OSX
Apple as a company is not an angel. But its not a monoply and is leverging open source an contributing back to the open source community. As a rule Apple shuns DRM (digital rights management).
But OS-X has at its core DARWIN which is an open source version of BSD which apple puts out. The parts of the OS that isn't opensource is the graphics layer above OS and a few other bits (hfs+ the file system is not open either I think.).
They've given back web browser code, updates to GCC etc. etc.. So all told they're not bad guys.
Your rant sounds so third-grade. The world is not black and white, so please, lose the fucking ideology.
Yes it is that Mac OS X isn't F/OSS.
Mac OS X is not Free/open source software. Its kernel is; or at least, the basis of its kernel. Perhaps some other parts, too.
Have you ever felt guilty ?
What kind of question is that. It's like asking if you felt guilty over choosing between Ranch or Buttermilk Ranch dressing on your salad
I knew a student of "indigenous oppression" in colonial Africa who claimed that tribal chiefs with the authority to oppress maybe 250 people, living in grand, dirt-floor huts with four times the dirt-floor-space of their oppressed serfs, were in the same league as European empires.
Maybe they wished they were in the same league as England or France, but they weren't. Wake me up when Apple has >50 percent market share and its piddly little evil deeds take on the coercive power of M$. Then I'll be all outraged. Until then I will sit, not very oppressed and quite happy, at my Powerbook.
(I only replied to the M$ aspect---SCO is not really worth whining about unless you get too close when they're sucked down the toilet)
What I have never understood about certain segments of the open source community is why Apple gets such a big pass. The average slashdrone will rant endlessly (and probably rightly so) about the evils of SCO and Microsoft. When in fact Apple is more closed source and proprietary than both of them combined and talk about how cool Apple is and if only the world were a better place we would all use Mac's. Any model that fails to give you control of the hardware and software that you pay for is a bad one. Apple locks down both, a claim that is not applicable to either Microsoft or SCO. The open source community should get out of bed with Apple before we get another SCO situation on our hands. To those who say Apple would never do something like SCO look here.
/. long enough. ;) Apple is the underdog and a competitor to Microsoft, so it has to be good. That said, I think they also gain points in many geeks' eyes due to the fact that OSX is built upon BSD, which is itself embraced by the slashdot community. It's also really the first *nix OS with true mainstream application support. Or at least as much as Mac OS ever had, but most importantly it has Microsoft Office support (no matter your opinion, it's still the standard) Photoshop support, and probably a bunch of other graphical production apps I've never heard of but are pretty important to a lot of other people. So, even though they are extremly closed source and proprietary, they still provide geeks with an appealing alternative to Microsoft, not to mention the occasional cool, innovative, overpriced gadget.
You clearly havne't been visiting
If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
I want two kinds of computer's in my life:
1) I know everything about it. I'm responsible for other users on the machine. I can fix the code if there is a problem, and I can go in and swap out one broken part for another because I know exactly which part I used before.
2) I am using this computer mostly to check my mail, give presentations, listen to music, watch a movie etc. I want to pay someone else to take care of security updates and notify me when I might want something else. I don't want to pay a ton of money, but I'm willing to pay a subscription or a fee to take care of some details.
My powerbook is computer 2. My server is computer 1. I use open software for all my applications still, but for important things like security updates or device drivers on my personal computer: I like having them take care of it.
Now let me say, I don't think Apple has got it "perfect" yet. I do think, however, of my options OSX is the best. I can't use windows because it runs my favorite open apps poorly, and I don't feel like I get much value for my money.
I have been running Unix on my Mac before Mac OS X existed!.
...
Using NetBSD and Linux. I Also have runned the [ugly propietary shit] A/UX, which wasn't that bad
So, it has a nice guy?, It's just a kind of microkernel made up of stolen code!, a piece of BSD, a piece of Mach, a piece of rotten code from some Mac enginer, I don't see anything new
Let's face it: Mac has the BEST hardware ever, really, it have allways had and allways will be the better hard you can get (ok, there are some broken Powerbooks out there, but it was Motorola's fault); but Mac Software Sucks. Mac OS X is nice, but it's not Mac Software, it's just software stolen by Apple.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
No, guilt is what you feel when using a system that doesn't "just work".
Its nowhere near the same, this guy developed a product while employed at Apple and sold it on the side. In the case of apple employee's working on open source projects liek fire this wsn't an issue because they were begun before the employee's tenure at apple.
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
Do I have any regrets using Mac OS X? 20 years blissfully virus free, what do you think? Happy Anniversary Macintosh!!
Guilt. Linux. OS X. Sounds like a religious post to me.
A guilty feeling never really crossed my mind. I was a Linux laptop user for many years until Apple finally releases OS X. It was actually what I was looking for - UNIX with a nice GUI that worked with 802.11b/g, Windows Printers, etc. Don't get me wrong, I still like and evangelize Linux as far as servers go but I have never felt guilty or regretted using Mac OS X instead of Linux on my laptop. . .
Guilty about what? Being productive with a choice that empowers you more than another? That seems plain silly (to even pose the question).
/., but um, I like to run lots of retail software under Windows, e.g., games. And no, I'm not interested in WineX or WINE thanks. I'm cool with Mozilla, OpenOffice, RedHat's BlueCurve desktop but if it doesn't cut the mustard, I'll quickly go elsewhere.
I have a Windows XP desktop and a LINUX desktop and they appear as one large desktop thanks to x2vnc.
Yeah this may be
-M
PS: This thread presupposes desktops... if you're talking about backend systems, I'm *NIX all the way.
When in fact Apple is more closed source and proprietary than both of them combined
But Apple does do good things. For example, there are at least two or three Apple people working full time on GCC, including integrating various things Apple has done locally back into the main tree. I hear they have roughly the same thing going on with BSD and probably some of the other OSS stuff they use. Self interest? Of course, if it's in the main tree they don't have to deal with re-integrating it each time they want to pick up a new upstream release. But when was the last time you saw MS or SCO or (insert supposedly evil company) do something like that?
Any model that fails to give you control of the hardware and software that you pay for is a bad one.
You only have full control of the hardware when you build it yourself, from stock parts. If you buy your boxen from Apple or Dell or IBM or whoever, you should pretty much expect some degree of hardware lock-in. That's the way it goes, especially with laptops. Deal.
The puritans are running amok outside of reality again.
This joke is so not funny anymore.
Thank you.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
Amen. I don't feel guilty about using Macs becuase I don't use them. And I don't use them because I agree that they're more monopolistic than any other technology company I can think of.
But, Mac people display an astounding degree of fanaticism that probably has to do with having paid too much, knowing it and wanting everybody else to do the same so they don't feel so foolish. So, I post AC.
How exactly is OS X more closed than Windows? More GPL'd software gets ported to OS X than Windows. Quite a bit of OS X is Open Source, in that anyone can view the code - as opposed to Windows and/or Solaris. If the hardware is so proprietary, then why do 15" PowerBooks have DVI-out, USB 2.0, Firewire, DDR SDRAM, and industry-standard 2.5" hard drives, and more? Also, SCO doesn't make hardware.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Guilty? I don't even feel guilty for using Windows instead of Linux at home. It does what I need, (mostly Eclipse, Photoshop, and Dreamweaver), and that's what's matters. (And don't try to convert me to Gimp and Mozilla Composer; they just won't do what I need.) It also still has a more polished (if less pretty) UI than any Linux desktop I've seen, though the gap is closing. I've actually been tempted to move to Mac OS X for its even better UI and nice hardware, but I don't want to re-purchase my software and I don't want the single-vendor hardware lockin.
What I think happens is that an implicent scale ends up being used.
Coolness/Fun factor vs. Proprietariness.
Apple gets a pass, because their products are cool. Have you actually ever used SCO openserver? You'd want to dig your eyes out with sticks afterwards and then wash out the empty sockets with soap, just to be sure.
Same with Sony. People don't express their annonyance with how much DRM is built into a PS2 because the PS2 has a fun factor...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
How is something so blatantly WRONG modded up as interesting? Since when was utter ignorance at all interesting?
Need I go on with how Apple differs from Microsoft and SCO?
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Why feel guilty?
As long as my mac continues to be reliable, I will keep using it.
Should it cease to be reliable, I will change.
My clothes keep me warm, and my computer does what I expect it to do. Apple provides little for the average linux user other than a high price. Similarly, Tommy Pullmyfinger provides little for the average clothes wearer other than a high price.
Guilty? What an odd question. Correction...What a meaningless question
"Have I felt the *need* to use Linux instead of OS X?" Not even once. Heck, ever since I got a 12"PB to replace the Sony laptop that I had been carting around for 2 years, I don't even feel the need to use Win2K. OS X just works, which allows me to get work done, instead of twiddling/tweaking/patching.
Well, to be completely truthful, I did fire up the old VAIO the other day so that I could get on XBConnect and play some Halo on the ol' XBox.
But other than that, I've been OS (se)X-ing it, 24x7.
---anactofgod---
---anactofgod---
"Equal opportunity swindling - *that* is the true test of a sustainable democracy."
I couldn't agree more....
Is kernel.org now shipping lobotomies en masse? People like this ass hat bring my criticisms of the Linux community to an entirely new level. Please, get a fucking clue.
That will be all.
I can run photoshop CS under OS X and then if I feel like it I can fire up X11 and "startkde" and have fun in koffice or gimp...if I need that linux "look and feel".
If I need a program that is not available via fink I can just get the source code and compile it myself. The only time I feel guilty about not using linux is when I fire up my windowsXP box.
To those who say Apple would never do something like SCO look here.
The fact they dismissed him is one thing. However, most companies who are in the business of creating something have rules / guidelines that state anything you create that is under their business's product spectrum belongs to them. The company I work for, an advertising agency, has the same rules. It's not a bad thing. After all, he probably wouldn't have the skills or tools to create that application if he weren't employed by Apple.
Now, don't take this as a cheer for Apple. I think they're heartless bastards just the same (:
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
First off, I couldn't RTFM because it's /.'ed already.
The nifty side of my wants a Mac. The practical side of me knows that's a bad idea. Apple has had plenty of high profile problems with hardware quality lately. This applies even to iPod. Support isn't guaranteed to be good either.
OSX 10.3 may have fixed the sluggish UI problem. 10.2 was definitely slow feeling (on iMac G4s).
Linux may not be "quite ready" for the desktop, but that's a very arbitrary judgement. Given some circumstances, Linux is quite capable and ready. Given other circumstances, it's not ready. It depends on your situation. It is indeed a matter of time (1-2 years perhaps) until Linux's desktop polish reaches the level of quality that most people would be very pleased with.
Meanwhile, as much as I despise MS, their XP OS has been very good to me, both on desktop PC, and especially on my Sony laptop. It really does work well, and by using Firebird instead of IE, most issues of network/internet risk don't apply.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
I've been considering getting a PowerBook to replace my current Linux laptop. I'm held back by the fact that many of the security related tools are developed on Linux.
As far a hardware lock in is concerned, there is a degree of hardware lock in for all laptops. Apple uses the same SO DIMMS and hard drives as PC laptops, though I haven't tried to get a non Airport miniPCI board to work in an Apple. Now on the desktop side there is a lot of commodity hardware for PCs.
The real argument isn't hardware replacements, it's competition. Apple makes it's money on the hardware. It's why the OS is for their hardware, and as a technincal side benefit, gives them control over how the hardware and the OS interact. I don't think Apple could reasonably port OS X to the PC for business reasons. Right now, if you want to run OS X on a laptop, guess who you have to buy from? It's simple economic, only made slightly more complicated by the fact that the PC laptop market exists. You can think of it (simplisticly) as two different markets, a low compition market i.e. PC vs Apple, and a high compition market i.e. the PC laptop market. While Apple has to pay some attention to the PC laptop market, it is not bound to any individual vendor as a direct compeditor. If OS X was released for the PC, Apple could no longer take that stance.
Spyder
... I know, I know. That was shameless.
how could I feel guilty about OS X? ok, it's gross that icons wiggle and pop up when you click them, that the iBook itself looks like a jelly bean, and that sometimes the running iChat man makes me laugh...but some of us like computers to seem happy :). (why else do you think emoticons were invented?)
I don't feel guilty about using OSX so much as I feel guilty about not having the money to buy a Mac for every Windows user I know that has two hundred spyware programs and back-door trojans running on his or her PC.
Those I know who are Windows experts and can keep their PCs running smoothly are doing fine most of the time, and good luck to 'em. But from the phone calls I'm getting from family and friends I'd say the computing neophytes really are getting killed out there.
To keep from being modded as off-topic I'm going to say that Linux is awesome and the very sound of the word transports me to a garden of delight.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
BSD? I know there are the BSD is Dead trolls, but it seems to be a success, if not a commercial success.
I'll give you that UNIX itself was a failure, that's why we're in this whole mess with SCO, but I did find an example.
I have an iBook that acquired 2, yes count them 2, fried logic boards. However in my career whilst working around Apple Mac's have only ever had a few problems, compared to the Dell and HP's etc.. that I've worked with. I guess I got a lemon (made on a friday at 6pm). I use Linux and I use OS X what's to feel guilty about? Thank god I don't own a single M$ product is all I can say. BTW how's MyDoom (Variants a-z) going?
I personally would not want to see Apple in Microsoft's position, because I think Jobs would quite possibly be worse for the computing world, but they're playing nice right now. Comparing them to M$ and SCO is just stupid.
The vast majority of the stuff they do now is based on open protocols, and a lot of times these are protocols developed at Apple and then released. Rendezvous is probably the best example; this is something that computers users desperately need (yes, you too, even if you don't know it) and Apple's actually given us some hope we'll see it.
No, Aqua itself isn't open, but the Unix underpinnings are, and Apple does everything they can to give advancements back. Safari is based on an OSS rendering engine, and they've contributed back to that project quite a bit. They used an open (if not common) format for their audio (sorry, does Ogg have DRM? No? Then Apple can't use it).
As to the link you provided, that's totally unrelated. The guy is employed as a software developer at Apple. All employers have non-compete agreements with their employees, and all employers are somewhat harsh about employees doing things at home that are related to what they do at work. I'm currently under the thumb of a contract in which I'm modifying my own GPL'd code for the company but I can't rerelease the code. Incredibly stupid and annoying, but incredibly standard. And, of course, totally unrelated to this topic or to SCO.
As to control of the hardware and software, I guess it depends on your definition of "control". I can't think of any senses in which Apple has control of either my hardware or software. I can install whatever I want on my Macs, and it will only take <1 second to get through the BIOS, as opposed to the shite x86 boxes and their shite BIOS. I have control of the software too, in the sense that I've upgraded the crap out of OS X and strangely Apple hasn't seemed to mind. What do you mean by "control"?
looks like the mighty http request engine that is /. has gotten it already, else something is poopoo in my packet path...
Aside from that I would say I do actually feel some guilt from not running Linux as my primary OS on my laptop. I am to be hated I guess because I have a vaio so I am running the dreaded xp. I think that a laptop is all about convenience so the fact that my wireless card wasn't automatically supported by my distro choice (Mandrake 9.2) caused me to scrap my shot to run only Linux on this laptop. I was impressed how much was supported right from the default install. But without a wireless card, what's the point. I will totally to admit to being too lazy to do the leg work to find/build/make drivers.
Don't hate me all the way through and through though, I have a Mandrake Club membership so I am paying some to help the cause out, and I run it as a dual boot on my workstation, and solely on my home network server.
I did Mac support at a Uni until I got sick of the work environment there and long story quit. OS X was a joy to use and support. I had to invoke Apple Care often enough to say you will indeed get some flawed hardware from Apple.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity." Maximus Decimus Meridius
Moreover, I predict --I know you are all dying to hear my prediction-- that within the next decade Microsoft, Intel and Mac will all be swept aside as the majority of people will use FOSS software on open spec hardware made in China. And there will essentially be no hardware or software markets to speak of because the hardware will be so cheap you will buy your computing equipment at 7-11 along with the beer and Fritos.
You heard it here first baby.
I wake up in the middle of the night crying.. knowing that i use photoshop, dreamweaver, office and many other wonderfull programs on my unix box. I feel horrible that my favorite OS is supported by hardware manufacturers and works seamlessly with windows PCs but i dont have all the issues of a windows user..
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
First of all Apple actually contributes to OSS projects even though they generally stay away from GPLed code and don't have to contribute their changes.
They've made many documented improvements to KHTML, gcc, the *BSDs, and others. They've also made the entire underlying operating system available as OSS.
Can you even come close to saying anything like that about Microsoft and SCO? Those two companies are the ones who testify in from of congress that OSS is unconstitutional and will destroy the US economy.
Apple also doesn't lock down their hardware, and it's totally possible to run other OSes on Macs. Their is one proprietary part that is required to run Mac OS, but if you don't want to run Mac OS it's not a problem.
Ever heard of OpenFirmware? It's an open standard that Apple, Sun and others use instead of the antiquated BIOSes found in PCs. What do MS and Intel want to replace the BIOS with? A locked down firmware that will implement DRM for media and software and possibly even OSes at the most basic hardware level. That's open?
Apple uses standard components and has opened up many of their hardware innovations like FireWire.
In other words: you're nuts.
its all in the attitude that set the companies apart.
Apple is not on a 'absorb the world' kick. They are just out to make a honest buck.
So they are 'closed'.. they dont use it to manipulate the markets...
Are they perfect, no.. but they sure as hell arent 'evil'...And they make a damned good product, most of the time...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I use windo=20 ]} } } }&..}=3Dr}'}"}[NO CARRIER]
have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?
No, I've felt sorry that it runs only on mac hardware. I'd put it unto my notebook right away, if that would work, and tripple-boot Linux/OpenBSD/OSX.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I used OSX at work for a year. It was time for an upgrade on my workstation and we replaced my pentium 233 with a Mac G4 500 - I expected a bit of a learning curve like having to relearn how to configure network cards, printers, and mount network drives etc but in truth there was very little to learn.
The three programs that I use the most JBuilder, Dreamweaver, and Photoshop worked flawlessly on OSX. (They also work in Windows, and sort of work with WINE)
Unfortunately hardware support for OSX was terrible. Much of the hardware that we had in the office for other OS9 macs did not work at all. Things like scsi scanners, cd caddies, became useless. We bought a new $900CAD Epson 1280 printer that had an OSX driver but it worked poorly when it worked at all.
I had further troubles finding software for OSX. As a programmer I use many small but time saving utilities. Most of these programs have windows, and/or Linux X windows versions but nothing for the Mac.
After a year of using the Mac and making a genuine effort to be rid of Microsoft forever I was still not as productive as I was when I had a Windows workstation, and a Linux test server. So I switched back.
(I'll probably get flamed for saying this, or modded into oblivion. But I had to say it anyway.)
How on earth would it take 2 hours to replace a notebook harddrive? Maybe if you count the time going to the store (if they even sell notebook drives) to buy it and coming back...
On my Dell you can replace the harddrive by removing just a single screw.
With OS X, it's gotten even worse, since now it's BSD, (Luser friendly BSD, mind you...) and we all know how arrogant those pricks are!
ooooohhhhh the ignomy!
Your loss.
Powerbook owner.
Your mind is squeezed by a blast of pain!
Gah! typical. Type in anger - mis-spell acronyms all over the place!
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Your freedom of speech doesn't equate to my having to listen, agree and silently acquiesce--especially when you are plainly biased and just plain wrong.
The irony is that its the zealots (whatever banner they ride under) that are the first to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with them of zealotry.
Listen up, buddy, it's a fricking tool. Get over yourself and find something worthwhile to fight for. It's a shame that hordes of idiots--who don't even have a vested interest in it--flame and whine until you drown out all relevant and reasonable discussion of what makes one tool the right one for a particular task.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
I use OSX on a daily basis on my laptop and the only guilt I feel is that it's not Linux. I would *MUCH* prefer linux as a development environment. It's more stable, easier to navigate, more open and flexible, and has nicer amenities for developers. I have the multiple desktops on OSX but they're not as nice as on linux. Also, you don't have access to the huge number of applications that run best on Linux.
idiotic... question... EVER. Guilt over which OS I use? What are you, a big fucking nerd?
Agreeed!! Slashdot ROXORZ!!!
I frankly don't feel guilt using Windows XP(TM) over Linux, let alone OSX. Whatever tool fits the job (or job description), which in the workplace is a combo of XP/2000, IPSO and Solaris. I think people need to keep this in perspective. Do you enjoy using Linux/XP/OSX/a Comodore 64, etc? Does it fit your personal/professional needs? Can you use it? Sorry but guilt over choice of OS is a little hard for me to grok (and I was raised Catholic).
Charge more for it than OS X on Apple hardware (to make up for the lost revenue)
Restrict the hardware it runs on (to keep the driver quality up)
Have some sort of product activation (to keep people from buying one copy and installing it N times)
If you're STILL willing to buy OS X on x86 under those conditions, let Apple know, preferrably with an open purchase order attached to your inquiry.
If not, then just shut up and either:
buy a Mac
use Linux and write open-source software that moves it in the Mac direction
OK?
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
You would feel guilty, as I do sometimes, because you have principles which you would like to uphold 100% of the time, those principles being a commitment to freedom(as in speech) and against contributing to an increase in non-free softwares userbase. Having principles make you feel dirty sometimes, as when you are forced into a pragmatic decision such as getting a mac because you don't have enough ability to get Linux/BSD/WhateverFreeOS running well, for example.
I would *love* to use Linux but I can't even get XDarwin and MacGimp to run on my powerbook. So yes, I do feel guilty sometimes. Is it aan overwhelming, mind numbing guilt? No, but it is there.
A blog about stuff.
iT so is.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Guilt is an emotion you should be feeling when you, say, use your monopoly power to force other people to buy your products when you can't make good products. Any reasonable human being can relate to that.
But if you are a consumer on the wrong end of a situation where your computer lacks quality what you should be feeling is not guilt, but anger. If it broke and you feel cheated, stand up and get your money back and then either get a new powerbook or buy a completely different product!
I mean c'mon, when you say guilt, it sounds like you are some faceless lemming who is feeling peer pressure from fellow linux users for not buying linux. That makes you sound like even more of a pussy. Grow up!
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
I feel guilty that my girlfriend doesn't use a Mac.
I sold my Linux box so I could own a G5. I don't have time to feel guilty about that because I'm getting too much work done. I've never been more productive.
If you feel guilty for using your Mac, you're doing it wrong.
Peace
This is the absolute truth. Tommy HillNigger clothes are made from the same material and by the same slave labor as any other clothing maker. I just grab the least expensive jeans and t-shirts in an effort to "stick it to the man". Also, I am a Communist Muslim. In Soviet Russia, somebody set us up the Jihad.
I can't load the article, since the site is already on its knees from the slashdotting. If he really feels all that guilty, I guess he can consider it penance.
I like that OS X is simple and sleek and useable. Linux-style tinkering is fun, but I don't want to be forced to do it. I'm just a hobbyist, so often the learning curve is so steep as to be frustrating. And I'm not in college anymore, so I can't just stick my head into the hallway and get tech support, either. I have a shiny new harddrive waiting for an OS, on which I plan to install a Linux distro, but my lovely iBook is going to stay my primary computer. I don't understand why I should feel guilty...is it that Apple isn't releasing the source to OS X? Aren't they under the BSD license, making it okay?
(Mini-Ask-Slashdot: Any distro recommendations for a new user lacking a background in this stuff? I'm leaning toward Knoppix, because it's fun to say. Knoppix. Knoppix. Knoppix.)
-Carolyn
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
I think you mean especially the linux zealots not the mac zealots. I've seen faaaaaaar more zealotry in the linux realm on this site.
Jordan Hubbard visited our campus last year to tell us his work on OSX and why he switched over to develop for OSX from FreeBSD. He told us about going around finding core OSX coders on the Apple campus saying "Give me your source code or I'll rip of your head!!!". He also helped pushed other Apple code that had been developed for years internally into the open source community.
Basically, your statement is full of it.
Get your facts straight, then manipulate them all you want.
As for the original question in this posting. No, I don't feel guilty using OSX over Linux. I need to use Photoshop, Excel and a variety of commercial software that has not been ported over to Linux (yet...?). Yet, retain the advantage of a UNIX environment, running applications on my SGI through X11 (I have a three button mouse) or doing the same on Windows 2000/XP with Remote Desktop Connection. Oh yeah, not to mention all the native the iLife apps that I really like using day to day.
-Diganta
I love my mac and it does ALOT of things that I can't consider doing with my linux boxen. Mix audio like a pro with pro-tools like software ... I'm there. Avid video editing ... I'm there to. I love linux but the same quality software to do these things just don't exist there yet. Added to which if I feel like having a little fun Unreal 2k3 plays faster on my g4 800mhz ibook than it does on my 2.4ghz p4 linux machine.
PCs should not be used for sledgehammer testing.
(Yes, I have seen that video.)
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Your sophistry about "open processor platforms" and whatnot is just mere words. The fact is, OS X runs only on Apple hardware, and software for OS X runs only on Apple's OS running on Apple's hardware. How much more locked-in can you get?
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
Part of the time, anyway. It's all Macs at school, since it's a film school. Final Cut Pro is a good program, no doubt about it,but given my choice I would not be working on a Mac. The thing that I don't care for at school is that people are not making an informed choice. Nobody-- I mean NOBODY-- even knows what Linux is or does. I have yet to find anyone else here who has EVER HEARD the word Unix (I'm really not kidding.)
OS X gives me a nice solid UNIX with a much nicer interface and better vendor support (both software and hardware). Thank You Very Much.
Besides, Apple's laptops are Really Nice and I haven't yet had anything like the same number of little annoying problems that I've had with both Windows and Linux on laptops. (This may well be related to generally superior hardware than you find from PC vendors who are engaged in cutthroat competition, but whatever.)
I actually bought our household's first Mac for my wife because I got rather tired of reinstalling Windows (and all her apps) for her every 3 months when it puked all over itself. I wanted something that wouldn't require a lot of admin effort on my part, but that was still easy enough to use and with enough software that she wouldn't pull her hair out.
It worked, although there were some teething pains as we both learned to use it and dug up the applications she needed.
I ended up liking her laptop so much that when it came time to replace my Linux laptop I went with a Mac for myself too. The silly things work well.
jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com
Personally i've used Toshiba, Dell and compaq laptops and they have all been good for me. (I even dropped the dell on a concrete floor from 3.5 feet, cracked the case a little but still worked like a charm. Long story but it involved me with no socks, the laptop power cord and an urgent nature call.)
But anyways, back to the point... Laptops aren't known for their reliability and when something goes wrong, since its all integrated they might as well give you a new one. You've lucked out (so have I), lets hope that doesn't change.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Heck no! What's there to feel guilty about?
But once, however, I was caught trying out Lindows while wearing a FreeBSD tee-shirt...
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
is akin to calling someone a racist or a Nazi. It is intentionally inflammatory, argumentative and really lowers the quality and credibility of your opinion. I love to read educated opinions of people who have insightful comments... sadly, your meaningless, spiteful post simply exposes you as a narrow minded, 'non-Mac-user'... yes we're all aware that you don't like Macs, you don't use them, and you enjoy sharing this fact with the /. community, good for you...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
They will go on in a long spew about how DRM is ok because it is from Apple, everything they do is good, and don't point out the flaws in their almighty Apple God.
These machines are not cheap - you buy one if you can afford 'quality' is the sales pitch. In terms of lost days of work this has been the worst laptop I've ever had including 2 Sonys; 1 toshiba and 1 IBM. Overall impact is that I doubt I'll buy another one and there isn't anyone in the office who will either - they just think I'm nuts for having bought this one. I'm hugely disappointed and though maybe I'd got a Friday machine but looking at the bulletin boards there seem to be alot of problems out there.
And, even if I used the machine while on a tricycle and the price Apple charge the darn thing should just work!
Yadda yadda yadda logic board yadda yadda. I have bought and currently own/use four iBooks in the past two to three years and they are all perfect, an absolute dream. all running Panther, 10.3.2 YMMV as it always will.
Definitely don't feel guilty about using a platform that takes less than five minutes to set up. Why should I? It's my time, and my need to get work done.
Apple is evil. The other day I tried to load OSX on my Athlon 2800 XP and the stupid CDs wouldn't even boot. Apple is all flash, no substance. Sure, the pictures look great on the Apple site, but there's nothing. The CDs wouldn't boot on my Thinkpad or my older Inspiron. It crashes my PIII 600 (No Operating System Found). To top it off, they want some serious cash for OSX. If they were serious about this whole Open Source thing then they'd make sure that anyone and everyone can download it from their website. They should also make sure that it runs properly on Opterons because I'm going to get one soon, like in 6 months or so.
...but iDidn't shoot the deputy
The dude's hardware craps out (hey, it happes, regardless of vendor) and he bitches and whines about using OS X?!?!
Newsflash, Johnny Bravo
Ya knew what you were getting into when ya bought the iBook.
Besides, if you are feeling guilty about a little OS usage, god know how you must be a conflicted mess when it comes to masturbation!
Here is where you may find the source for the core operating system. You can install it on some PCs if it makes you happy and you may do so at no extra cost and you may do so legally. While their graphical programs and libraries are proprietary, their programming interface is an open standard. They've also contributed to the Objective-C interface of the GNU compiler collection. While I don't deny Apple has done some pretty nasty things, your statement about how Apple is more closed than Microsoft and SCO combined is a silly ignorant rant.
Natalie Portman.
In a word, "no".
I use my powerbook for Java development all the time, as do all of my developers. I've watched our one Linux "holdout" have issue after issue trying to get wireless connectivity and remote printing working in our developer meetings, while the rest of us pop open our PB's and things just start working. He's finally made the switch and has been smiling ever since. The applications and environment are very productive for all of us.
At the end of the day, I don't feel guilty for using the right tool for the job, and after using Win32, Linux, Solaris, BSD, and OSX environments, I find OSX to be the best for our brand of development.
I don't feel guity for using Linux for our Firewall/VPN/email/web/cvs servers. For that matter, most of our "infrastructure" or server-related services are provided by Linux boxes.
I also don't feel guilty for using Windows 2K Server for some Oracle development tasks, because that's the platform that most of the tools we use are written for. Now, we are in the process of developing our own version of some of those tools in Java so that they're platform independent, mostly because we want them for OSX and the app vendor hasn't even heard of OSX, never mind thought about porting stuff over.
I also don't feel guilty for using Sparc/Solaris for our main Oracle database boxes in development.
I'm not sure that I'd want to employ people who went out of their way to use an environment that was unsuitable for the job, just because they "felt guilty". Or not chosing the right tool because other OS's didn't run on it, even though we don't want to use those other OS's. That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm sure some people will scream that this is "anti-Linux" or "anti-OSX", but I'm not in the business of promoting Linux or OSX. I use them and recommend them as tools to clients, when it's appropriate.
Blah blah blah.
$0.02 (CDN)
How can apple be more closed and evil than SCO and Microsoft? Apple implement open standards such as Rendezvous, document them and provide sample code for free.
Apple adopt key Open Source projects for the benefit of their customers, such as KHTML, Samba, OpenLDAP, and many more. In the process of adopting these, they adhere strictly to the licences involved, and provide their modifications back to original developers. If I recall, at the release of Safari, Apple sent the KHTML developers copious patches and fixes, which having read the Konqueror mailing lists at the time, were gladly received. Note that this doesn't make Apple great, just fair.
SCO Unixware contains many OSS utilities - did they give anything back? Only litigation. As for Microsoft, there is nothing transparent about Windows, a fact proven by the courts in the US, and being investigated by the courts in Europe at present.
Apple have only two proprietary items - Quicktime, and the Quartz graphics system. These are the things Apple requires to make the Macintosh platform a package. This is how they differentiate themselves from any other Unix-like distro.
As for the author of Netflix Fanatic, the article mentions other applications developed by Apple employees, one of which allows users to do things with their iPods, which Apple never intended. Surely if it was just about exploiting and controlling their staff, PodWorks would have disappeared by now. More likely the dispute with NetFlix is more complicated, and neither party is telling the rest of the world exactly what the problem is.
Basically, no. I don't feel one bit guilty.
I have a 2-year old TiBook, and I had a toilet seat iBook before that, and I don't feel at all bad about running MacOS X on any of 'em. If the hardware really craps out and it's not worth fixing, I'll yank the drive, put it in a $50 Firewire enclosure, and use it as a spare drive for my new system (or in my case, my desktop iMac).
If I don't like the engineering behind one model, I can get a different model. There's two different iBook form factors, three different PowerBooks, one tower Mac, three iMac sizes, and one CRT model. The prices of Apple's hardware platforms range from about $800 (Combo Drive eMac, no extra RAM) to well over $3500 (PowerMac G5-dually 2 GHz and a real nice LCD monitor) I figure I can find something adequate for my use among those choices.
And no, MacOS X may not be Free (as in beer) software, or completely Free (as in speech), but it's a darn sight closer than any other comparable desktop OS with equivalent or higher market share. How much of their source code does Microsoft give away under any variation of an Open Source license?
So MacOS X doesn't run on generic Intel hardware. It's not ever going to. Get over it, folks - Apple makes money by selling Macs, not by selling boxed OS's to users. If they went to the trouble of OS X for Intel, who'd buy it, anyways? A handful of Slashdot readers? Whee.
If you like Apple software, suck it up and buy the Apple hardware it runs on. If you like Apple hardware but Apple's not Free enough for you, download Yellow Dog or one of the other PPC Linux distros and blow OS X away. Either way, don't whine about it.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
I'll admit it, when OS X was announced I thought, "Oh wow, that sounds perfect, I guess I'll dump Linux (at least for desktop work) and go the OS X way." Once the Betas started appearing I had time to play around with it at a consultant gig I had and I realized, although it was a nice GUI with the console for your, it wasn't as *free* feeling as Linux. There are plenty of examples, but in Linux I can choose what I want installed, how I want things to look, act, etc, and in OS X there are just too many things that you *can't* do.
Mac users flame me if you want, but I prefer to hear some... Ok, that line was a joke! Still, it comes down to personal preferace. I thought I'd have the guilt mentioned in the article, but I didn't; I prefered Linux and even bought an iBook just to put Gentoo Linux on. It's oh, so nice.
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
OMG! I just realized teh softwarez I compiled 4 my Fedora box wil only run on Fedora!!!1!! I am locked in!
Jeebus, how much of a hardship is it to have a piece of software that only runs on an OS that only runs on one type of hardware? Most people only _own_ one box, so they're locked in already. If you're that worried about it, run only open source software that compiles on other platforms. Then it won't matter, even if you're running Mac OS X on a Mac - you can always shuffle your Apache configs to an x86 box running Linux/BSD.
Naked.
i've never owned a Mac, but have always been empressed by them. I could just never afford one.
...on one of the stupidest stories posted on Slashdot in the new year.
Who in their right mind would use a Macintosh anyway?
This sort of idiotic logic is analogous to someone saying "It's always raining, so skateboarding sucks." The two have no connection with one another, other than pure coincidence.
And I speak from experience, as I've recently swapped in my third crappy Intel-based motherboard on my RedHat box at home.
Stuff breaks and costs money: boo freaking hoo.
"Don't matter how New Age you get, old age is gonna kick your ass." - Utah Phillips
Maybe it is me, but Apple is more upfront about their proprietary hardware. They don't do backdoor tactics like Microsoft to sabotage competitors (or allies). We all know how the "embrace and extend" deal goes. Apple simply says "This is how we are doing it, if you don't like it, don't buy it." There is something a little more honorable about that.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
So many people are so quick to complain about the hardware "monopoly" apple has. OSX only runs on apple hardware - why can't we buy cheap, faster PC hardware instead?
:)
I think this model is a double edged sword for apple. But if you think about the benefits, I really don't mind paying the extra $$$. Apple knows exactly what kind of hardware is in what platform, and it is just a small set of hardware to support. We don't have to deal with APIs with layers of drivers piled upon it. All the hardware works together very well, and is packaged together very nicely as well. As a result, you fire up OSX, OSX knows what to expect, and you have everything working right out of the box.
If you're concerned about competitive hardware and bargain prices, use a PC - hardware has only gotten faster, and cheaper. But if you don't mind paying the extra dough and settling with hardware that isn't bleeding edge/top of the line, but would like somethign that works, buy an apple.
I hate to bring in the age-old, cliche cars to computers analogy, but I'd much rather have a well built all-around car with parts that work together. You could buy the fastest engine, turbocharge it, but put on a crappy transmission with some incorrect gear rations and you're going to be running into a lot of problems.
Eh.. I'll stop ranting here. So pretty much, I don't feel any guilt using OSX, although I miss hacking around in linux once in a while. I guess that's what yellowdog linux is for.
I'm getting myself an IBook. :-)
I'm not gonna ditch Panter, since I have some stuff to do in Flash. Other than that I'll stick with OSS and use Java. After all, the Java integration in MacOSX is phenomenal. I'm looking forward to just firing up JEdit without skinning and all and have it not look like someone did doo-doo on my screen but instead really cool with native AA fonts and all that stuff. Jippeee!
It might be that I install Debian PPC on a different Partition though. Probably sometime later.
Apart from MacOSX being proprietary Apple did just the right thing, imho: Use a refernce grade OS with solid OSS support as base and design a high end GUI around it. To me OSX and Linux aren't that far apart. I used it the other day and it even has ZShell installed! OSS *nix goodness with Apple Eyecandy and high end design tools and Java run natively. Just how cool is that? No, I probably won't feel guilty.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
... do you feel guilty using Mac OS X over ...
;-)
Linux
Hmmm, I'd rather say that I feel guilty using
Debian on this PowerBook.
All the nice guys I know working on GCC on Apple's behalf - and I just ignore their work
Toon Moene
Personally, I think Apple machines are very well engineered as of late. I'm on my second TiBook, got my parents an iMac & my sister a G4 iBook for xmas. They love 'em. The old pc my parents had got a little hd upgrade and is relegated to the garage where my dad can smoke and write. And that's where the pc should stay.
That said, I've owned a plethora of x86 machines for almost 10 years now and they've seen probably every Linux distro imaginable. My current servers all run Linux still. My two x86 laptops - Linux. However, my Tibook has no wireless issues due to Broadcom or whoever else's drivers not being released. And, the media on my Tibook works like a champ.
I do miss my quick and faithful WindowMaker desktop, but I can live with Aqua. At least with Mac, you still have BSD. With windoze sans Cygwin, I feel trapped. Matter of fact, even with Cygwin I feel trapped. *shrug* And believe me, I'm the guy that goes into the office and wants to start chucking the M$ based 'netwerk' in favor of *nx and open standards stuff, so I don't feel like I'm one of the Mac 'zealots'.
I think Apple has done some good stuff for the OS community, a hell of a lot more than M$ probably ever will. And they can do this because they are mostly a hardware company. I'll keep buying Macs and I'll keep putting together Linux boxes. As long as I'm not funneling money into M$ or Dell, then I can live with that.
Nice moderated up to 4 troll. If you actually knew anything about a Mac (like, oh, say did some programming on one) you might understand that Apple hardware and software is not closed and never has been.
People run OS X on non-Mac PPC machines all the time (even though the license forbids it) and plenty of people run Linux on Macs. Apple provides all of the specifications that people need, including specifications for unique things like the G5 fan controllers. Macs (along with Sun and a lot of other UNIX vendors) have used Open Firmware for years now which makes booting any OS a lot easier than on an x86 PC.
Then again, this is Slashdot so unfounded hearsay is the norm. :-(
There are already many Linux distributions dedicated/ported to Apple's hardware. Especially there are many Linux installation reports on Apple PowerBooks and iBooks.
> have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X
> instead of Linux?
Confessions? Guilt?
What is this, a Catholic group-therapy site?
So, you're response to the argument "Apple is not open" is "So what?".
Do you work for NASA?
Anything is possible given time and money.
MacOS and Linux are tools. Admittingly, they are extremely nice multi-purpose tools, but they are there to help you a) get the job done or b) enjoy life.
If you were driving a taxi cab for a living, would you feel guilty that you were driving a Ford instead of a Chrysler? Some of you would prefer one or the other and that's ok.
Similarly, you do not have be locked into a Macintosh or Linux platforms in order to support and appreciate the open source movement. I'm sure there's a developer somewhere who writes stuff for Linux but does so on his Mac because he likes the Mac user interface better. And just as likely are people who write stuff on Linux but "donate" it to MacOS. KDHTML and Safari anyone?
Maybe we've reached the point where we're no longer able to simply take or leave an OS on its own merits. I use Linux most of the time because it's cheap, stable, and I like the KDE desktop. At work, I use Windows for proprietary applications unavailable elsewhere. I also have a cool older iBook running OS X that has taken years of rough treatment without causing me much offense. I'll buy a G5 soon to run Photoshop.
It's all a question of the right tools for the job at hand. Operating systems aren't a religion. There's no need to feel guilty using one or the other. No divine laws are transgressed.
That being said, I think the Open Source movement is highly worthwhile. It provides the means to quality computing for those who might not be able to afford proprietary software, and it certainly keeps Microsoft, Sun, and Apple honest. Well -- mostly honest, in the case of at least one of those companies.
I'm grateful to all those who have freely contributed code to the stuff I use. Power to the People.
But guilty for using OS X? How silly. Mac users should probably feel good about contributing to the diversity of the commercial software industry.
They should probably also feel good about an OS that works right out of the box, and which supports some quality retail software. Not to mention the time they save without the hassle of resolving dependencies, looking up hardware compatability, or the forever tweaking many of us actually enjoy with Linux.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
you mean there are people that still use it?
Apple do not have an overwhelming monopoly - and therefore haven't abused their non-existent monopoly
Apple absolutely has a monopoly over any computer running its operating system (Microsoft isn't even close on this one). Remember the clone market a while ago? whatever happened to it?
Apple protects this monopoly through the bios, hence the impossibility of running OSX on standard PPC hardware.
Apple is ruthless in both patenting of obvious mechanisms (the scroll wheel on MP3 players) and will frequently send cease and desist letters to anyone that mimics OSX features (Y'z dock).
Apple is also quick to screw over even its own users (witness the bait and switch with mac.com emails and the new cost of iLife (previously free)).
Apple also is keen on sticking customers with high costs for point releases. Apple charges for updates to OSX; MS has yet to bill me for a service pack.
I can't RTFA because the site is /.ed at the moment. In my experience Mac OS X provides just enough aggravation for me as a Linux user that I do feel guilty using it. Not guilty because I am betraying Linux or any related ideal, but guilty because I am betraying myself--giving up speed convenience and usability every time I watch the dreaded spinning beach ball of death, or wait for OS X to switch between windows. Expose is a neat hack, but it is no match for multiple desktops and sloppy focus (don't even bother pitching Codetek VirtualDesktop because it is totally inadequate in speed and usability--including the beta code for sloppy focus). Trying to fill out web forms with just the keyboard is impossible (and yes I know about "full keyboard access" a complete misrepresentation since it doesn't work as expected on even Apple applications). The major saving grace of OSX is that Launchbar exists for it.
I own a G4 iBook; the reason I own one is because Apple replaced my G3 iBook after I suffered 3 failed logic boards over the past year. The place where I get my warranty done said that in December they were involved in 5 G3 iBook replacements with Apple. Now, I'm happy that Apple replaced my system with a new model, and I hope that the problems that so many experienced with the last generation of iBooks have been resolved, but going back to OS X is painful after using exclusively GNOME 2.4 for the past month or so. I had consdiered selling the G4 on eBay and getting an x86 system. I didn't because none of them can offer the battery life available on Apple hardware without being Centrino linux-lockout. At least Debian runs well on Apple hardware.
Regardless, I'm in the middle of finking GNOME 2.4 onto Darwin so I can get some work done. I don't fault Apple so much as the rest of the industry for designing ugly, heavy, low-battery-life, windows-centered behemoths.
Metamuscle.com - News in the Iro
Linux: Silicon Valley concrete tilt-up, military quonset hut or similar general purpose warehouse. Fundamentally utilitarian but infinitely malleable. Generally not pretty or aesthetically pleasing beyond the utilitarian ideal.
BSD: a higher end business or cognicenti chic utilitarian building like a modern skyscraper with cubes or actually Apple's HQ building. More presentable and reliable yet nicely utilitarian, but the art on the walls is commercial art, nothing bleeding edge or daring.
Windows: the old house that's had add-ons for 100 years with obvious clashing and bad-taste mixes of styles like colonial combined with ranch combined with roccoco, or 3rd generation white-trash trailer decorated with velvet Elvis paintings and tourist kitsch with mail-order sun porch added. Nice if you are impressed by shiny objects or think a gun-rack is a living room accessory.
Mac OS 9: beautiful, monolithic museum or gov't building. Inspires and creates loyalty with those who don't need to worry if or how the boiler repairs are done. Not very customizable when you dig deeper or want to alter the basic aethetic assumptions but always pretty, slim and presentable. The old SGI building off 101 that is the new Computer Musuem. The NY Guggenhiem. The US Capital.
Mac OS X: the same pretty exterior as Mac OS 9 but now you suddenly find the beauty is stage dressing for the Linux/BSD-style utiliarianism. More like a Hollywood soundstage where things are tweakable yet the illusion of any aesthetic you choose is on top. Sort of the Riemann Sphere of utilitarianism vs. usability and aesthetics (the extremes of the axis have all met at infinity - if it weren't such an obtusely nerdy analogy it'd be a great marketing line).
BTW, if you find these analogies interestings you might want to read Stewart Brand's book "How Buildings Learn" - highly recommended particularly vis-a-vis design patterns, usability from an architectural (building) view - all applicable to computers and software. Yes, the same Stewart Brand as Whole Earth Catalog, The Well, and Clock of the Long Now.
No Bikini Kill, You Smell Like Teen Spirit!
As a rule Apple shuns DRM (digital rights management).
Through iTunes Music Store, Apple has created the second largest distrubtion channel of DRM protected content - DVD being the largest.
Apple is leveraging DRM directly to make money from the masses, just like those "evil" studios and record companies.
Linux wants to look more and more like MS Windows. Why should I fgeel guilty using MacOS instead?
And... what the hell does that have to do with stealing code?
Telling all us Mac users how 'stupid' we are. I imagine insulting others really makes you feel good about yourself. Your smug, self-righteous opinions are about as interesting as your ideas are misguided. The tired yarn of 'Mac-user's-misery-loving-company' is so lame. I think you would do well to not worry so much about what others spend their money on, and think about why that threatens you as much as it does.
I am a long time Mac user. I assure you that what I have spent on my computers over the years is inconsequential in relation to what I have earned -- the argument that I may have saved a few thousand dollars over the years using 'commodity hardware' or other OSs really falls flat. That chump change is in the decimal-percentage-range of what I have earned.
BTW, I have had numerous PC's over the years as well, and there is a good chance I was using Linux/OSS before you knew anything about it...but that is for a whole 'nother pissing contest.
http://silicon.wack.us/sdmirror/article434.html
Natural-Selection Be
I run Mac OS X on my desktop, and I help run a Linux website. My shame runs deep at that terrible hypocrisy - Linux is a desktop OS, no one would want to use it as a server OS! My conscience pangs every time I use Mozilla or Firebird to view the site from Mac OS X. When I run openssh to connect to a server my head hangs low. Those crimes are bad enough, but then I start using text editors that only run on Mac OS X - I've locked myself in right there! How could I possibly expect to ever use a text editor on any other platform? They're too different!
Don't get me started on the hardware, either. My USB and IEEE1394 peripherals could clearly never work with another platform. There's no way I could ever read my HFS+ formatted hard drive in Linux. Nor could I ever burn important data to a Linux-readable CD or DVD using a cross-platform DVD-R drive before wiping the hard disk for use with another OS - that's just crazy talk. And the propietary DDR memory - what evil have I wrought?
Naked.
The mac zealots just proved the point I made. The parent post was modded up +5 informative for about 10 minutes... and then the steve job's groupies showed up... now its -1, Troll... Its a sad day on slashdot when freedom of speech is squashed by a mob of mac users :(
I find it comical that so many of you cannot accept the truth that Mac Software will only run on Mac Hardware both of which are proprietary. If you do not believe this is so then try to build A Mac from spare parts you buy, Install a copy of OS X on it that you buy then sell it and see if Mac does not sue the hell out of you. This is not true of either Microsoft or SCO they will let you install their stuff on anything that will run it (not saying either are any better. Additionally Apple takes Open Source software adds a gui and will sue the hell out of you if you try to port it to Non Mac hardware. Closed hardware and closed software, it does not matter what OS X starts with but where they ends up. My original post hhas been modded to 5 twice but the Mac Fanboys have modded me down to troll (as predicted in one of the replies). I must admit that I am surprised about this. I made no disparaging remarks about the quality of Macs and am quite correct in my assertion of their proprietary nature. Mac people pride themselves on their open mindedness I guess we can see how they deal with an alternnative viewpoint.
n/t
In reality 90% of /. readers have dumped all forms of Linux for OS X (I still call it "Oh Es Ex" stupid mac nerds).
Except me of course. I just had to remove linux from my 2 dev machines for a 2003 server install. See I'm one of those employed sys admins...you know, who have to work on whatever the company owns...not what I dork around with in my spare time.
Apple free since 1990!
I would feel guilty about it if Broadcom got off their hands and released the Airport Extreme specs so I could have wireless under GNU/Linux.
Being NOT an OSS/FSS zealot, I can't say I feel at all "guilty" running OSX on my powerbook. I wouldn't run anything but. But then again, I'm also not one that that would want to run linux on his desktop/laptop.
Personally, I couldn't find any references by "googling"; next time ou might want to include your search terms.
Unplug and plug the USB stuff and post back here to let us know if that fixes it; it could be totally unrelated to the G5 or the OS.
i have two powerbooks... one with yellowdog linux and one with os x. sometimes, late at night, i feel a twinge of guilt as i command-tab to itunes. but then i command-tab back to my 70% translucent terminal.app and the guilt vanishes. yet there is also sadness... sadness for the naive little 'software update' program. he knows not the world of bsd ports or gentoo portage, and has but the vaguest inkling of fink. i hope he is an apt student, for there is much to learn.
Why stop at either feeling guilty of running Linux? You could have the best of both worlds -- license your copy of Linux from SCO. See, you really can have your guilt and your Linux too!
First off, I've never used MacOS X, so someone will have to tell me if there are significant UI difference since System 7.
At university, we worked with both Solaris boxes and Macs. Most assignments could be completed under Solaris, but occasionally a lecturer would specify a Mac tool (one wrote his own Scheme interpreter for Mac, on which he required our coursework to run; one would ask for coursework in the form of Hypercard stacks).
The feeling I most associate with working on the Macs is powerlessness. I'd got used to working on a system where (to steal a Perl-ism) there was more than one way to do any particular task. System 7 was quite the opposite. YOU worked the Mac way, rather than the OS working your way.
I always felt I was fighting against the Mac, rather than controlling it.
On Solaris, even as a non-priveledged user, I felt in control. I could mould my environment to my needs. When I got my own PC, put Slackware on it (several dozen floppies downloaded in a college lab) and became root on my own UNIX-like system, I knew I'd found a platform that I could be comfortable with.
Incidentally, iTunes for Windows reinforces all my prejudices about what Macs are like. iTunes expects you to work in a certain way, and it's up to you to mould yourself to iTunes, not vice versa.
So *if* I used MacOS, I guess I wouldn't feel guilty... just fenced in and a bit miserable.
OTOH, I appreciate you can now open terminals and compile all your well-loved freeware on MacOS X, and maybe I could get comfortable in an environment such as that... but if you're going to do that, what's Mac giving you that you didn't have with Linux?
Now that I can't surf the web freely at work, I have to save up all the stuff I want to look at for when I get home. So all the slashdot articles that come out during the day.. are slashdotted :(
Thanks a lot guys, you ruin it for us slow folk ;)
If the hardware fails, especially in a laptop, it doesn't really matter what OS is installed. When the logic board, whether in an iBook, a Dell, Gateways, etc., you're not going to get any OS to run on it, be it Mac OSX, *nix, or Windows. You're just going to have to suck it up and get it fixed, or buy a new one.
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
I got an eMac for two reasons:
1. So my wife could edit video of our (then 6-mo-old) son in iMovie
2. To finally purge our house of the curse of microsoft.
At home we're MS-free, and that feels great. My machine is GNU/Linux; my wife uses the mac. If there was free software that can do what iMovie can, and as simply, I'd be happier still to go completely down the free software path.
Until then, I don't feel guilty over it. I *do* wish I could get an inexpensive GNU/Linux laptop, however . . .
This sounds like bullshit. Cite even a single example of running it on non-Apple hardware. I don't even know what that would be, except maybe some RS/6000.
root# uptime 14:59 up 22 days, 4:07, 2 users, load averages: 0.18 0.53 0.60
Just curious by why doesn't apple port OSX to the intel platform? The only reason I can think of is that they're concerned they will lose out on hardware sales. But if OSX was available for other types of hardware I would give it a try and maybe even switch. End result is, if MacOS is as good as they say, more people would switch to it which would probably lead to more hardware sales.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Apple has a monopoly on "macs" not on home computers.. MS controls probably about 90% of the pc computer market.
A timeline:
Performa 475: first Mac of my own (before that it was my parents' LCII). Shipped with I believe some derivative of System 7.5; with only 4MB of RAM included and the system taking up roughly 2.5 of that, half of the included applications wouldn't work, and I immediately had to run out and buy a RAM upgrade. Modem failed after about 6 months.
Power Computing PowerBase 200: a Mac clone, yes, and boy did it suck... after 4 months, refused to turn on one day, sent out an onsite tech with a new graphics card, didn't fix the problem, sent out the same onsite tech the next week with a new motherboard and CPU card, didn't fix the problem, finally realized that this might be power supply related and had me send the thing back. Returned from the factory and STILL broken, eventually persuaded tech support under threat of a lawsuit to refund my original purchase price.
Power Mac 7300/200: logic board failure after 8 months, thankfully the tech actually brought out a logic board and fixed the problem on the first try.
PowerBook G3 266 (revision B): special-ordered DVD drive broke after 6 months, audio port fell off after 8 (though I fixed that with a soldering iron since I didn't want to be computer-less for two weeks).
After this I bought a ThinkPad A20p (with Win2k), which worked without a hitch for 2 years until the lure of OSX drew me back in with:
PowerBook G4 667 (rev B): latch partly broke after about 2 months (the cheap platic thingy that held it in the case partly broke and wouldn't hold the lid down very well), a few months after that the DVD/CD-RW drive failed (wouldn't accept disks anymore) and shortly after that the thing died completely and started Sad Chime'ing whenever I tried to start it.
PowerBook G4 1GHz: bad pixel flurry, 'nuff said.
After this, bought a Toshiba (Sat 5205), which worked great until I decided I needed a RAID and switched to a homebuilt desktop (also works great, but homebuilt systems usually do since you can control the component quality) and a tiny X-series ThinkPad.
Now I do have bad luck with devices in general (my PDA list is almost as depressing), but still, for EVERY SINGLE MAC to do this to me is a little bit crazy. I'm really not that rough on these things, there's no reason they should be failing with such alarming frequency.
Apple basically looked into DRM and said it wasn't viable. (ref Rolling Stone interview). They put a light version to apease the record companies.
Let me get this straight. The first Slashdot story goes something like...
College grads not finding tech work after graduation.
Three days later, next story...
"We can't make a living writing software.. It's those darn Indians, taking our jobs!"
And two days later on Slashdot...
Don't you feel guilty for using software that you have to actually pay for?
Basically, yes, I am saying "So what?" You aren't any more locked into a Mac than you are locked into anything else you buy. The only complaint I see here is that you can't put a Mac motherboard into a PC, and there aren't a couple hundred different distributions of Mac OS X available for download (only a few different distributions of the Darwin core).
Is your big argument that instead of only one processor vendor the x86 platform lets you choose from a whopping _two_? Or is it that it's eeeeeevil for someone to use Mac OS X because it's not completely open source? I always thought the strength of the open source community lay in the abundance of software one could grab and compile, and most of that stuff you can grab and compile under Mac OS X. Apple's even bundling X Windows with their OS these days.
Just as with anything on the x86 platform, you're only as locked in as you want to be with Mac OS X.
Naked.
I don't get it with these Linux losers. Mac OS X has more applications, a better GUI, and is maintained by paid, professional programmers, not amateur hackers who write viruses and worms in their spare time.
Yes, I have felt the odd twinge of guilt. I have a stonking great scsi-based Linux workstation (athlon, geforce, genuine tulip fast ethernet card, 4 scsi hard disks, scsi cd burner, scsi tape drive etc). Do I use it? Hell no, I just keep returning to the powerbook 12".
I'm not saying I SHOULD feel guilty. After all, I got a lot of use out of Linux as my workstation before I bought a Mac for myself. It's that damn iBook I bought my wife that converted me (just like other people posted). And I do mean converted.
But I do get the odd twinge. It goes away when I consider the total user experience I've had with OS X. I now rely on iTunes for most of my music needs, I make movies with iMovie and iDVD for a friends band (from mini-DV footage, works brilliantly).
Sure, I can do some of it on Linux, but it's fiddly. I just gave up, sorry.
Linux is still 100% required for my webserver - that's different!
Chris Morgan
As an Apple user, I agree with the general argument, but Apple has spent a lot of time basically taking an open source operating system and making it a great desktop. Sure, you can argue this point... is it BSD is it not... But, the point is that Linux will have a great advantage once it runs on everything from cell phones to mainframes. This IMHO opinion is what makes open source a great idea. create a solid common foundation, and allow others to build upon it and profit.
A great Linux desktop is most certainly in the future, but the future always arrives, though sometimes it takes its time getting there.
Actually I just got my NEW Linksys 802.11g PCMCIA Card working with linux using linuxant.com's Driver Loader.
:)
No I do not work for the company or know anybody who does. I found mention of this while googling for Linux Wireless drivers... running across
Rasmus Lerdorf's site with screenshots and a brief explaination of what he did to configure it.
I was amazed at how easy it was to configure [unzip, run, configure through a web interface.]
$20 gets you an permanent license to use their software -- otherwise you get a month of use for free to make sure the card works.
It's a pretty neat idea -- they use the WindowsXP drivers through a compatibility layer.
So for me, using Debian unstable[sid], I'm finally able to run wireless linux on my Thinkpad
------------------------------
Ray Raspberry
raspberry@b3l33t.org
Bzzt! Wrong. Apple does not charge for updates. They charge for upgrades. The updates from 10.2 to 10.2.1, to 10.2.2, to .... to 10.2.8 are all free. Downloadable via the Software Update application, just like Windows Update and Service Pack N.
Apple does charge for an upgrade from, say, 10.2 to 10.3. Just like Microsoft charges for upgrading from Windows 2000 to Windows XP. Just because the version number seems like it's a minor update does not make it so. 10.1 is drastically different from 10.2 which is drastically different from 10.3.
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
I bought one of the originally releases 15'' Powerbooks. At the time they shipped with OS 9 and included OS X. The first thing I did was install the LinuxPPC distro from linuxppc.org (now apparenlty non-existent). Later I went to Yellow Dog. For awhile I dual booted between Mac and Linux, but I found Linux much more usable. The reality was I only bought the powerbook because it looked kewl, not for the Mac OS.
When it comes right down to it, open source and Linux are just two overhyped bullshit technologies. With OS X I have an OS that does everything I want it to and is maintained by professional, PAID programmers, in the USA, not india or china or some other third world hell hole.
This is just ideology run amuck. Programmers and engineers need to eat too. We can't all work for free.
Wake up. Free and Open have little to do with money or salaries or commercial interests. It has to do with rights, freedoms, security, and doing the smart thing for your own company and your clients.
My company runs Linux on all desktops (yes, we're small and nerdy so we can do this) and production servers (just good business, here). We pay money for our operating systems, just like we would to MS or Apple. We happen to pay RedHat and SuSE for our operating systems. We get fantastic support (so far). We make (small) profits here, and we're able to pay our programmers. The RedHat and SuSE people get paid, so they're okay too. Our products save our clients money, so they're doing just well also. What the hell is the problem? Yes, we release nearly all of our own products Open Source, under the GPL. And it doesn't prevent us from charging money to people for them.
If my company goes under, our clients have a lot of piece of mind that the latest source is available to them. Lately, there have even been 3rd party consultants who have taken our source and added features that we simply don't have time for (or disagree with), and they're able to make a living (partially, at least; I'm not sure) at that. Yee ha. There is no lack of money in Free and Open if that's what your goal is.
Dammit, Free and Open are not about money.
I am a recent OS X user in terms of years. We have 8 Linux boxen (7 Fedora Core, 1 Debian) running for servers here, and I dont think I will switch them over to OS X. I am comfortable with Linux on our servers, couldnt ask for more.
... well Quickbooks doesnt run on Linux, the book keeper thinks using Linux involves nothing less than animal scarifices to install stuff, so , I run out and get another iMac with Quickbooks. (Note .. the evil Quickbooks folks make sure only old buggy versions are available for the Macs).
......
..... but i love this thing, I really cant think of a computer I would rather have, AND I will bet even the most die hard Slackware user here would druel all over to have this setup.......
... Well No , I get FINK and find all the usual KDE stuff I know and love runs under X11. Now I hear rumors of KDE running native on OS X, so I can drag thos proggies to the dock.
... no , sorry more tales of woe ....
But, I started down the OS X road because my 15 y/o kid is NOT a techie and got frustrated with trying to install RPM's on the hoime machine (Im thinking this whole story would have been different if I had Debian on the home box), but anyway, I wont have M$ products around for ethical reasons, so I broke down and bought her an iMac.
Well, the kid loved it, has all kinds of camera's stuff, and an iPod plugged into it, so there is no going back. I was thinking of making it dual boot with yellow dog, but Why aregue with the kid.
The next Mac step was when my book keeper opend up some trojan or other on the windoze machine that we run (ran) Quickbooks on. Poof
Anyway, no more loss of data, and the book keeper can chat with her AIM buddies in iChat while working.
Then I decide it is time to treat myself to a new computer, I think long and hard, do I get a fast Intel box with linux?
No, I fall to glitz and get myself a shiney new Dual 2 Ghz G5 Mac, 23" Screen, 40 gig iPod, Sound Sticks, iSight, the works.
Sorry
So, Do I dual boot?
The iMac at home got stolen in a robbery, so instead of replacing it, I got the kid a new iBook (1 Ghz 14") with an Airport Extreme card, and base station.
I am as hooked as a heroin addict. I wish I wasnt, but I just keep sending the apple folks more nad more $$$$$
I heard this a long time ago, but never belived it, unfortunatly now I do.
" Once you go Mac, You never go back "
I hope this sad story reaches those that never started down the OS X road before it is too late and you end up like me, trying to support this $$$$$ apple habit
Did I mention Audio Books for the iPod from the apple store?
Cheers all
* Carthago Delenda Est *
"and I'm fairly competent computer user"
So you find OS X unituitive, but I'll bet you think KDE is the bees knees?
Talk about being blinded by a philosophy. Son, you're the poster child.
My point is exactly that Apple does forbid it, not that it cant be done. Calling my comments unfounded while at the same time confirming them is unfortunate. The way the supossedly open minded free speech Mac people have reacted to this post is tragic.
It would make more sense to ask:
Would you prefer a 100% free desktop or something where only part of the system is free.
I would take the free desktop system anyday and be willing to live without certain things. If you can't do that MacOSX is a nice choice, but I wouldn't use it.
Also don't forget that they give the Source Code to Darwin away for free.
Windows has "X-Mouse" capability with a simple registry tweak. If you decide to use TweakUI or Microsoft's own TweakXP, it is probably no more difficult to set up than in X.
/Homer
I've been using 'focus follows mouse' (without activation) on a 375 ms timeout since Win2k (god, I love 2k). I know it's available on earlier Windows versions as well.
mmm...scroll button scrolls background windows... (*drool*)
have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?
Why does the story submitter want me to justify myself because I love using my Mac better than I enjoyed my previous Linuxette ?
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Where i work we have ~250 laptops, 2/3 of them being Macs, all of them used on the road (see above!). We have 2 or 3 laptops a month come in for 'data recovery' which usually involves HDD being extracted and mounted in an external case.
Dell, IBM Apple, Toshiba, ACER, Compaq, HP - Seen em all. I have NEVER seen a non standard 2.5" hdd. Period.
No guilt here. OS X on my PowerBook and Linux on my desktops.
The X-Windows sucks and there is no replacement for the polished apps on OS X. Sorry.
Time = money
People who think that Linux is "free" have never used it or have too much free time.
Bold prediction by an anonymous coward. And if you are right you have no proof of it, what a pity.
I like Macs, but to see Microsoft and Intel go under would be sweet. The F/OSS stuff at the quicky marts would be cool too.
Just so this isn't completely off topic, why would anyone feel guilty about using OS X? I can see feeling guilty about spending $3,000 on a computer, but OS X is part of the justification.
means what you think it does. Check out monopoly...
You sir are dumb.
"underlines the tyranny of hardware vendor lock-in" Since when can i goto frys and buy a replacement logic board for a PC?
I'm limited to two processor vendors?
No. I can think of several alternatives. Then I can think of dozen of different motherboard vendors. Then I can think of dozens of different vendors for cases, motherboards, RAM, hard drives. Then I CAN'T think of the hundreds of vendors that offer further accessories and peripherials.
I don't think someone is Evil for running OS X. I do think that running Apple/OSX is vendor lock in and vendor lock in is Evil to ME. And to ME, it is certainly not "So what?".
BTW, the NASA reference was to "If there is a whole in the wing, SO WHAT, nothing we can do. So why even check". Which is about the most Evil thing I've ever heard.
Anything is possible given time and money.
Years ago, I put a second video card in a Mac running one of the post-4.2 but pre-9.x versions of the OS. Not only did the second monitor show up as a true second desktop, but a copy of the original MacDraw (which we got along with a toaster-Mac, i.e. 128K Mac) was even able to display graphics that spanned the two monitors!!!
They may not have known beans about how to sell and market what they built, but the original Mac team knew a heck of a lot about writing tight code that used the toolbox according to the guidelines. (Which made it even more annoying to know that they made special provisions in the OS for MS apps that didn't play according to the rules. Naturally, those apps didn't fare so well running under subsequent OS revs.)
The idea that the original MacDraw app would even run in a version of the OS that supported color monitors, much less secondary monitors, was amazing. Spanning monitors with a MacDraw window... I nearly fainted.
Tim
Mac OS X just works. It has applications that I need to get along. I like having some games. I like having stuff like iSync & iTunes. Yes, I know there's Linux apps, but I like how everything works *together* and isn't an ugly kludge.
That's fine, as long as the stuff that works *together* is all you need or want...
I think Linux has a loooong way to go as a desktop OS. The word from LinuxWorld was "It's not quite there yet.." which means that other people feel the same way.
The thing about "Linux On The Desktop" (tm) is that not everyone wants the same desktop. Most people without a programmer mindset would get frustrated by my usual desktop environment (at the moment, my window list consists of Firebird and 4 xterms - one of them is a MP3 player, one is my e-mail, two are sitting at shell prompts). On the other hand, I'd probably get frustrated by their desktop environment, on the basis that I couldn't get at my Unix shell. Linux is ready for *some people's* desktops, and it has been so for years.
Personally I think KDE's getting close to being usable by the "average computer user", if there is such a thing, and is way ahead in some ways. (I can't comment on Gnome, since I haven't used it since well before Gtk2.)
---- (Warning: this comment is an extended brain-dump.) ----
I bought a Powerbook as my primary computer, because I was sick of my Athlon's excessive and loud cooling system (2 case fans, PSU fan, CPU fan, 2 graphics card fans...), but also to give Mac OS X a go.
My choice was between a then-current (but getting old) 15" titanium Powerbook, or either getting a then-current 12" or 17" aluminium Powerbook or waiting for the 15" equivalent. It basically came down to: would I use Linux or Mac OS X? If I was happy in OS X, an AlBook would be better value (802.11g, Bluetooth, Firewire 800, lit keyboard, Geforce 4) but if I wanted to use Linux, the slightly older tech in a TiBook (802.11b, Firewire 400, ATi Radeon) would give me better compatibility. I went for the TiBook, and I'm really glad I did.
Mac OS X is a very nice OS - easy, reliable and pretty-looking - but for "hackability", give me a Free/open-source OS like Linux or a BSD any day. In Mac OS, yes, there's the underlying Darwin layer, but to do anything non-standard with it I'll have to "fight the system".
In Linux (Debian is my weapon of choice) I can just tell The System to get out of my way: on my laptop, I've disabled Debian's networking infrastructure, in favour of writing an ad-hoc networking script that copes better with changing locations, while integrating nicely with IPSec (I use IPSec to control access to my wireless access point, at the request of my college computing service, whose bandwidth it's using). It's inconsistent, it's an ugly kludge which I must tidy up one day, and it's *so* useful.
With its non-standard components (Netinfo being the main one), OS X takes a bit of getting used to for a Unix user; I'm still not entirely comfortable about having a network-accessible daemon holding my user info (I *think* it only listens on localhost, but I could be wrong...), and some of its features are a definite step backwards (any local user has access to crypted (not even MD5ed) passwords, a problem solved on every other Unix system by the introduction of shadow files).
I find some other things about Mac OS limiting: mostly just minor things, but things I'm accustomed to being able to change. The "window manager" (if you can call it that, since it appears to be integrated into the OS) is unconfigurable, which is great from a training point of view, but frustrating if you know what you're doing and want something like sloppy focus, or double-clicking on a title-bar doing something different (I like "window shading" (hiding the window and leaving only the title bar) myself), or whatever. The Dock is a nice shortcut for stuff, but I can't seem to change the icon for a disk image in the Dock in any obvious way (I've imaged my game CDs, so I ca
Read my rant about this:
http://homepage.mac.com/spullara/rants
Sam
"If I can see farther it is because I am surrounded by dwarves." -- Murray Gell-Mann
I switched to OSX because of Linux
Back in college, I used to use windows and was pretty good with it. Not an admin or anything, but much better than your average user.
Then a friend got me to switch to linux and I loved it. I loved the stability and the really great ideas it incorporated. But after three years, I began to feel that it was way, way beyond me. There was so much to learn, and for the first time in my life, I didn't want to learn it.
I know a lot about computers and fixing problems, but suddenly, I didn't want to spend hours configuring a new printer or scanner. These things were no longer enjoyable to me.
I wanted to switch, but I knew I could never go back to windows.
The only choice: OSX.
I bought a iBook three months ago and I'm very pleased. Almost as stable as linux but 10,000x more user friendly. For someone who doesn't want to know all the details anymore, but is still a power user, I think it's a good choice.
--
In London? Need a Physics Tutor?
American Weblog in London
I used a Linux desktop for three years (1999-2002), and it was a good three years. I never looked back to my Win*** days with fondness, and I felt smug whenever my co-workers got viruses I didn't. Of course, I also had a list of niggling gripes a mile long, not the least of which was my inability to find any usable applications where VERSION >= 1.0.
Switching to Mac OS X (first on my wife's iBook, then on my own TiBook) fixed all my gripes and only gave me a few new things to gripe about. Then, I noticed something amazing... I wasn't spending 10 hours/week fiddling with my system, updating packages, tweaking WM preferences, and searching endlessly for a GUI text editor as usable as BBEdit or UltraEdit.
Plus, it has vi! and Apache! and MySQL! and ImageMagick! and!!!1! I really haven't made it past the glow of using a system that JUST. PLAIN. WORKS. Perhaps Apple will do something really tyrannical (*cough* DRM *cough*) that will make me regret the switch, but for now I'm too happy to care.
~chris, who has to get back to his day job writing Open Source software (for servers)
Read the full text my book Perl for the Web
I type programs into a computer all day, so the world should listen to what I have to say.
:D).
That is, without a doubt, the most nonsensical sig I've ever read.
I'm getting out of computer science and going into math precisely because while I like the theory, I'm sick of computers (they never seem to work correctly - I just find OS design appalling, and OSes have been around decades, so you'd think people would have a clue by now) and even more sick of computer scientists (what an uncultured bunch of lamers for the most part - e.g. in my experience, mention Thai or Sri Lankan food in a software engineering class, and everyone thinks you're bizarre as they sip their Coke and nibble on fast food, but mention such a thing in a graduate level math class and not only has nearly everyone in the class tried such things, but they have recipes to offer you
Computer scientists are self-righteous bastards. IME, a significant number of them think that computer science is the be-all and end-all. Not only that, but they criticize anything impractical, such as the study of pure math, or fine arts, for example. I'm always more than happy to remind these people that we lived just fine for thousands of years without their precious word processors and buggy as hell apps, and in ten years their work will be completely and utterly obsolete and laughed at during parties anyways.
Linux exceeds OS X in some way, just like OS X exceeds Linux (or BeOS or Windows) in others. You "get what you pay for.." is an insult to all the hardworking OSS coders and the academic ones before them. Apache is a great example of how you don't always get what you pay for. Or Mozilla. Or the BSD code OS X was built on.
Quack, quack.
Holy shit, you are so right I never would have believed it.
Okay, here is the deal. Been running linux since like what? Slackware betas? And since then till now, I've yet to take one standard distro and have it work with the softwares out there easily, smoothly, and as responsively as I could on say Windows or MacOSX.
It isn't because of Linux. It is because different teams started and decided that they wanted their version of graphical libraries to be the best and people built their GUI's atop of those libraries. Be it GTK or QT or X11 or whatever.
Then you have all of the interprocess communication going on different protocols and the cross-compatibility goes to hell.
Sure, now Gnome and KDE are gravitating towards a common interface, but GNOME is still too slow and KDE is too bogged down with endless menus to control the WM environment.
Add to this the fact that upgrading the libraries includes a risk that my existing apps may not work without a recompile/reinstall and that my WM's may suddnely not work right again.
Add to that the fact that the process could take anywhere from a few minutes(good case) to half a day or more if interdependancies crop up.
I wanted a laptop I could depend on while on the road and away from my server and my other backup computers. This is something I'm going to take on the road with me, keep in my backpack, or take on a plane.
If something doesn't work, I can't afford to spend half a day reconfiguring or rebuilding the system or worse yet, have to recompile the kernel and face a non-booting system.
I don't want to support MS. I also don't want a high maintenance operating system which would kill my usable work time. (Time spent "tweaking" and "fixing" my laptop/computer is not considered usable work time.) So I went with MacOSX. It IS Unix under the pretty interface. The applications WORK with one another.
I've owned mine for a year now and have no complaints about it save the DVD/iDVD issue with iBooks and other non-internal-superdrive systems.
I've compiled the GNU toolset on the system and have just about all the utilities I had on my Linux boxes. I even have an X11 setup and run Enlightenment as a WM.
The fact is this: You use the right tool for the job.
Linux is great for servers. To argue this point would be a waste of time.
Linux is not ready for prime time on the laptop/desktop. It is still too fragmented as far as interoperability of apps and there are too many graphical library dependancies that too many WM's depend on.
When I go to conventions, I can work with my digital photography work on the spot. I can instantly switch my location profile to match the wireless provider in the exhibition halls/hotel/etc. I plug in a printer and it works.
with MacOSX, I get work done. With Linux, my work IS the OS. And I just don't trust Window's security for desktop or server usage.
Do I feel guilty? No. I get work done now. Do I still use Linux? Yes. Where it makes sense to: the home file server/email server/firewall system.
Linux needs a desktop. Not necessarily a unified one, but at the very least, a common standard for which all other desktops can work together with. So Apps aren't failing to run because GTK+ isn't installed or that Glib-2.x isn't installed(in the right place), or that the program failed, core dumped, and needs to be recompiled with the latest version of another library set which I can't install because another program would break if I changed it. And if I put it in a different location, then the dependancy checking system fails.
*sigh* Long Rant? Yes. But after a decade of Linux at home, at school, and at work... I've decided that if I'm spending all of my time "making the OS work", then the OS isn't working for that task.
Winged Power Photography
"It also raises the obvious question: have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?"
The whole concept of OSS is about choice. I'm sure Linus wouldn't want you to feel guilty because you picked something other than Linux, as long as you had a good reason.
Vote for Pedro
i spent an entire year preaching Linux to all my friends but i have to admit that all the way i've been having tons of problems with it... USB devices were not working, attempts to switch keyboard layouts gave me XFree86 errors, trying to do accounting with Gnucash was a lunacy, and could XMMS be ANY UGLIER? Then i tried installing XD2 from Ximian (which I still consider the best "graphical shell" for Linux) and that just broke *everything* on my laptop... On that day i just got so mad i walked down the street and got a powerbook G4...
so, back to the guilt thing.... yes, i do feel guilty - probably because i kind of showed myself as a hypocrite - preaching linux to others then getting an Apple machine. i think the key with Linux happiness is to recognize whether it's APPROPRIATE for what you do. if you need email, web browsers and a shell then Linux IS perfeect... but if you try to use it the way i did (USB, Music, several business applications, multimedia), then you better know how to recompile things yourself (i don't).
mod the parent up!
Amazing magic tricks
Let's be clear here. The issue isn't whether you are using Linux or not; nobody else with any sense cares. What you should feel guilty (or not) about is whether you are making the world a better place.
Contributing to Linux might be one way to do that, but again if you're only a passive user then you aren't helping. Alternatively, many (most?) open-source projects are platform-agostic, so you can still help out if you're using OS X, Windows, or whatever. In my case I primarily use OS X but have written a free piece of software that animates juggling patterns. It's not much, but it's cross-platform and has quite a few users across all OSes.
And who says Linux is making the world a better place? I haven't seen an argument for who wins by having all the value sucked out of the OS market. Linux could make computing slightly more accessible in poor countries, but most of them steal Windows or get it at dramatically reduced prices anyway.
Nope. I feel smug, just like the rest of my cult... err... community
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
who are using Windows or Linux desktops. :-)
Moto Man
When I boot up my Mac OS
It's always with a sense of shame
I've always been the one to blame
Linux is what I long to do
But everything I really choose
Has one thing in common, too
Chorus:
It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin
It's a sin
Every app I've ever run
Everything I ever do
Every game I've ever played
Everywhere site I'm going to
It's a sin
And Slashdot taught me how to be
A Linux God, and very l337
They didn't quite succeed
Linux is what I long to do
But everything I really choose
Has one thing in common, too
(Chorus)
Linus, forgive me, I tried not to do it
Burned a Knoppix CD, then I ignored it
Whatever you taught me, it didn't compile
Linus, you got me a brand new OS
But I still don't understand
So I boot up my Mac OS
Forever with a sense of shame
And I'm the one to blame
Linux is what I long to do
But everything I really choose
Has one thing in common, too
(Chorus)
It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin
It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin
The big advantage in my view is that I feel better and work better when my screen's an aesthetic delight than otherwise.
So I'm delighted with all my Macs - I switched almost totally away from Linux and Irix, my previous systems, and in terms of computing environment, I couldn't be happier. The Mac isn't perfect, but it's as close to a hassle-free computing environment as I can get.
And that's worth its weight in gold, at least for me.
Just out of curiosity, could you give a few examples of things you can't do from the command line? I'll bet there actually are ways around it that you haven't heard.
D
I have an iMac (ok, it's supposed to be my sons) and I use OS X happily on it. Granted I only use it for iTunes, iBlog, GarageBand & some misc web video stuff (like the videos of the latest Sumo bouts at http://www.banzuke.com/sumomovies). I do everything else on my RH/Fedora systems. That includes work and home/personal stuff. I'd probably use the Mac more but I can do everything I want and need to do as good or better on the Linux box so...
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
Have I ever felt guilty for using OS X instead of Linux?
Sure - everyday.
Signed,
Steve Jobs
I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
...to buy a new shiny iBrator to go along with your shiny new mac laptop! There's no "guilt" in iBrator!
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
WARNING: Lameness filter triggered!
See here for PPC Linux info.
Have a look at the distributions box in the left margin.
"Deal with an alternative viewpoint"? Spoken like a true Slashdot Zealot. I don't have a Mac, and I use Gentoo and SuSe, but your assertions that OS X is more proprietary than Windows, among others, is a steamy pile of BS.
Seriously, if someone is able to feel guilt over such a thing then either he doesn't have any real problems or needs to get a life.
Feeling guilty for using OS X? People use Linux because it's a free Unix. OS X is Unix, but without the tremendous suck of Linux and with a lot more love.
People who espouse ideology over usability are idiots. I use Linux many places, but my desktop isn't one of them.
Well,
;-)
No.
Never.
Everything in OS X just works...
Unix with training wheels - I know...
but it sure beats Red Hat.
(Apple still has support!)
And the G4 and G5 systems seem to work quite well. No compromise on the Hardware.
I am Still waiting for the new 3GHz G5s to come out, before I buy a couple dozen...
What editor did RMS use to write the first emacs?
All's true that is mistrusted
Software licenses don't automagically make a company's product(s) "evil". No one's forced you to use OS X, and I doubt you've ever tried it. I'm sure someone like you could find something "evil" about every company in North America.
Oh for god's sake. You spread half-truths and then when someone points out the real facts you basically say what amounts to "Yeah, that's what I meant" and then add a quip inferring that Mac users are trampling on your free speech rights by exercising ours.
Do you realize how flawed that logic is?
And being a Linux Zealot is any better (or worse) than being a Mac Zealot? Putting Apple in the same category as SCO is hardly logical. Flamebait, Trolls, and Offtopic posts are what they are, no matter who's opinion they endorse.
Well, its open source, write the drivers yourself? What are you waiting for? Oh wait, you wanted free as in beer...
I don't feel guilty for using Panther or Solaris or HPUX or LINUX or BSD, but I do feel guilty when I use MS Windows Operating systems. When I use MS OS I feel like I am contributing to the ultimate pirate enterprise. I feel like I am supporting a "predatory monopoly." I also see the MS Enterprise as a massive modern day pirate ship, swash buckling their way through legitimate enterprises, with weapons they stole from others, to loot what they could not possible legitimately earn.
Sorry, be we could not run our business on Linux if we wanted too. Why? We are a marketing and publishing company and programs like InDesign, Photoshop, QuarkXpress, and Illustrator are a way of life for us. Our only other "real" option is Windows and everytime one of these MyDoom's or SoBig's come around, we don't have to worry about it. That has saved us a lot in time and overhead despite the upfront costs of the Mac's.
I know that one reason we can usually undercut local compeition is that we don't have the technology issues. Another comeptitor dumped Macs for Dell's about two years ago and quickly learned that it was far more costly in terms of viruses, system crashes (running W2k Pro), that allowed us to woo away two of his bigger clients because we knew we could meet the deadlines.
As for servers, we do have a 1TB Xraid with fiber cards for video production and storage, everything else are PC white boxes with FreeBSD installed including a print server that was a Pentium Pro 200 with FBSD 3.4 that had an uptime of over 2 years until yesterday when it was unplugged to be moved to our new offices.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
"have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?"
Why anyone would feel "guilty" is beyond me. There is nothing wrong with using closed source software, provided you are willing to accept the pros and cons of such a decision. (Also, if I wasn't using Mac OS X, I would be using NetBSD. The open source world is larger than the Linux kernel.)
As for the hardware, all laptops users are pretty much dependent upon the vendor for help, as every vendor pretty much custom enginneers their laptops. (It's too bad that laptop components have never become standardized the way desktop parts have. It would be nice to be able to build a laptop.)
Baby Jesus cries...
Zambozay! My brain must've been eatin' a sandwich!
Whats wrong with using hardware and software from the same vendor if it solves your problem?
As I said in another post, how is Apple's current lineup of hardware proprietary? They use off-the-shelf standards such as DDR, SATA, USB, Firewire, 1000BT Ethernet, etc. The main difference I see between my nForce2 system and a PowerMac is the motherboard and CPU. As far as Windows being less proprietary than OS X, I'll leave it to you to explain how Windows is less proprietary.
For a while I liked doing things myself, but recently I've become a fan or OSX, high-level languages (Scheme, Python, Smalltalk) and pretty much anything that means I don't have to do everything myself.
Oh, and iChat AV rocks.
Why the hell would i feel guilty? I am quite proud to run the best OS on the best hardware.
Almost all of the posts here regurgitate the notion that you shouldn't feel guilty "using the best tool for the job" which implies that principal doesn't come into the equation. People can tell themselves that all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that every decision we make every day involves principals, and we should always be asking ourselves if we can get the job done (even if it's in a more difficult) using a tool that promotes freedom over one that doesn't. This way we sacrifice a little bit in the short term to gain tremendous long term benefits.
closed source?
remember that buffer overflow problem on OS X not too long ago? someone was able to look at the source code and had a fix within hours. You think that will ever happen with a closed source and proprietary OS like MS Windows?
Actually Apple has always been good and they weren't always the underdog to Microsoft. Go back 25 years and they were both shoestring operations but Apple was bigger than Microsoft.
Apple has always been good because they are a combined hardware/software company with geniuses on the payroll (eg, Raskin, Burcell, and Wozniak). What Apple does is Real Computing. Microsoft is a software company that rips off ideas from others, then rewrites history to pretend that Microsoft did it first. There's no honour in what Microsoft does. It's kinda lame.
Apple-critics like to say that Apple ripped off the GUI from Xerox. But it's not true. Xerox had basic ideas like windows and mice. Apple had to create dozens of new concepts for the GUIs used on the Lisa and the Macintosh. It's fairer to say that Xerox started something and Apple finished it. That's another big point in Apple's favour.
One thing I've always disliked about Apple is (sadly) the Apple community. They're more rabid than Linux fanatics and more clueless to boot. I have listened to various Apple-fanatics defending cooperative multitasking, lack of protected memory, benefits of RAM Doubler, any justification at all for forked filesystems, etc. It always boggles my mind that they can talk about how much more "productive" they are because of 2-second savings in changing focus, but they suddenly go quiet when they have to wait 5 minutes during a reboot because their computer crashed. Thankfully MacOSX has fixed the foundational problems with MacOS.
But leaving the rabid community aside, Apple from the 70s and 80s would have been top of my list of Places I'd Like To Work if I'd been old enough at the time. Even with the downside of Steve Jobs having to be there. Apple does cool stuff. They always have. They still are. They're among the few companies that have kudos in the geek community, even if you didn't particularly like MacOS <= 9 because of the foundational faults in its design.
But Microsoft has always sucked. Bill Gates has always been a dickhead and his company has always been the McDonalds of computing. He might be rich but he has never been cool. There's nothing nifty about Microsoft software. It gets the job done on a budget. That's about the nicest thing you can say about Microsoft.
He's complaining about hardware lock-in and he doesn't seem to like OSX anyway-- so there's no hardware lock-in. He's only locked into using Apple hardware if he really wants to run OSX-- which he doesn't. The only reason he got an iBook was that he couldn't configure his wireless on Linux.
I've configured wireless on Linux (not that hard), and all the power management tools for laptops and I still never got the battery life, fans not running, and satisfactory sleep-on-lid-close that I get with my iBook running OS X.
I have Linux at work and Linux on my desktop at home. Linux is my preferred development/work environment. The iBook is for e-mail at work, some perl, ssh -- and, oh yeah, when my windows-using relatives send me some multimedia web links that not even crossover plugin can handle, I surf on the iBook.
Guilt? There's no guilt. I wish Linux were more like OS X in terms of integration and supported hardware, but that's not going to happen unless we stop reading slashdot and start coding.
What? Why would I be using Linux on my laptop? I'm not a masochist.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
Just because you haven't yet experienced the commonplace logic board problems doesn't mean you won't ever. When you do, I expect you'll find that sledgehammer quite useful.
100 REM PISS OFF CODE FASCISTS 200 GOTO 100
I don't really feel guilty, I've been MacOS for 15 years now and love it (well most of it) even though I admit that the hardware lock-in has burned me more than once (especially my wallet). The pluses it has (don't kill me) for me is it simply clicks with my personality and I'm able to use most commercial software releases. I do intend however to buy a linux box and use it as a server and have muchos respect for the Linux community. Together we make the computing world human.
I can't even keep a comment moded above zero on slashdot, but this guys rant about Mac / linux and he's front page story material? sheesh i guess i'm just undershooting.
I've not felt guilty about using OS X instead of Linux, but I *have* felt guilty about using x86 instead of just about anything else.
Guilty about using Mac OS X on Apple hardware? Come on. Sheesh. Linux is way immature compared to Mac OS X. Why would I want to run another operating system in my PowerBook? I've got all of the benefits of Mac OS X, with a BSD layer underneath!
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ibook.html
so much for that theory.
That's like asking "do you feel guilty for using a phillips screwdriver over a robson?"
Use the right tool for the job. If OSX does what you need it to do, use it! The same goes for linux, or any other operating systems for that matter.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Microsoft will take exploit information from outside sources where they can get it too. It is irrelevant whether or not you can view the code but how you are allowed to use it that matters. Yes they will let you send them patches for their OS but that is about the only way they will let you mod their code. Try to bundle it with some other hardware or crack the DRM in Itunes and see what happens.
I wish I could use Linux on my 17" PowerBook, but can't because at the moment PPC linux distro's don't support the cooling mechanism. :(
OS X is nice, very nice, but I wish I could have the enjoyment of my RH 9 desktop on the road...
Well, here you go. I actually own several pieces of Mac OS X software, from when I had my iBook. I wanted a faster machine and decided that Apple's offerings didn't give me enough bang/buck, so I bought an Acer. Had I started with a low-end PC laptop instead of the iBook, all of the software I bought would still work on the new machine, but because I started with an Apple I had to repurchase Quicken, Office, etc. to work with the new machine. See what I mean about lock-in? Once you have an investment in stuff that only works with Apple, it gets expensive to switch to another hardware vendor. If you stick with PCs you can buy your next computer from many places and your software investments are preserved.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
When dealing with the sort of humor that is based on language and spelling the appreciation of a certain cleverness is part of the humo response, so if you've seen something over and over again it loses something.
I was going to mod you up, but I wanted to add to what you said. The fact is that repetition is one of the cornerstones of comedy. If something is funny once, it's usually funny more than once. In some cases, the repetition increases the humor. Plenty of the humor around here (ISR, AYBABTU, etc.) is actually funnier due to the endless repetition (to the point that they get abbreviated). (For that matter, some of the trolls around here benefit from the repetition bump as well.)
Having said that, there is a point when enough is enough (AYBABTU is probably there for most of us). Just remember that it is an individual threshold.
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
I've been searching for some time for command line access to the Keychains -- many times I've wanted to ssh into my home system from work to fetch a password I'd stored in my keychain and so far I haven't been able to figure out how to access it. Nothing promising at versiontracker and I don't know any applescript to know if I can use that to my benefit. Any ideas?
toot toot
So you switched to OS X because it was *nix but prettier or something. And then your iBook broke a few times so you're going to switch back to Linux but you're going to run it on the Apple hardware that you've found unreliable?
And the switch is largely motivated by the hardware problems, not dissatisfaction with the OS?
And if I understood correctly this means you can move work b/w your laptop and your Linux desktop so that if the iBook dies again you can keep working on the desktop?
Except didn't you start out running Linux so the work you're doing is probably some kind of bodacious nerd crap that you could do on OS X or Linux? Like, for example, all the nerd crap that I do (coding, web sites, web applications and the like) which I move b/w OS X, PPC Linux and x86 Linux with no problems at all.
So anyway you're a moron but Linux on iBook is the business. The GUI is way faster than OS X and I can't run OS X software updates in Linux which is great because I swear those things randomly destroy iBook batteries.
Now wash your hands.
... and it took a few hours too. On my old Wallstreet it would have taken minutes, and I wouldn't be sweating over static sensitive components or wires that somehow wouldn't in the case properly.
Along with installing the airport card and upgrading your ram, replacing/upgrading a hard drive is one of the only reasons people have to crack open their 'book. Hard drives are after all relatively sensitive things, as they are one of the few things in your computer that involve moving parts. In fact the only other easily-broken thing in the notebook happens to be the only other mechanical component - the hinges and wires that pass through them (all of which I have had to replace at various times, with much hassle). Nearly everything else involves damaged or faulty solid state components, which just plain shouldn't happen in the lifetime of the computer and if it does is an indicator of bad design. For instance, my Wallstreet also had the power jack and various others soldered directly to the logic board, and predictably enough they broke. My iBook separates it on wires I think.
Long story short, make anything that is involved with mechanical force easily replaceable or appropriately engineered, and your problems are minimized.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Now, OS X and Apple hardware are making hardcore linux users quiver and twitch...... :)
Apple, you're doing something right. Keep doing it.
I'm feeling terribly guilty.
..Sigh..
Huh? I assume you have found thePreview application and used it? You are a Sun/Solaris admin and you just replaced my good old Blade 100 with a G5 and you haven't tried preview for pdfs. Anymore using Acrobat makes me feel like I've been doing Acrobatics. Use Preview, it's faster and better.
He just feels guilty like poor Windows users...wait, that's jealousy, anger, and contentment towards Linux users - my error!
In a word, never.
***For what I personally need to do***, Mac OS X is better than Linux 99.9% of the time.
It's hard to call one CPU proprietary, when they're all commercially devloped. And as far as "proprietary" motherboards, Apple boards use OpenFirmware, which is an actual standard, unlike the up-and-coming DRM-laden BIOSes for PC motherboards.
That works the other way around, PC to Mac. What's your point, though - that lock-in is bad? Once you make any software purchase you've locked yourself into a platform and OS, be it Mac OS, Windows, Linux or any other. Lock-in is simply unavoidable.
Your argument sounds like that made by people who feel we should all standardize on Windows - because that would preserve software investments. It sure would make for some pretty lousy stagnation in the market, though.
Naked.
You can buy your processor from Intel or from AMD (and once you buy a motherboard, you're locked into that vendor for your processor upgrades for as long as you own that board). Likewise, for a Mac, you're pretty much buying a processor upgrade from IBM (or from Motorola for G4s). There are intermediaries you can go through from both sides (there are several processor upgrade vendors on the Mac side, believe it or not), but it boils down to Intel or AMD on the one hand or IBM on the other, since they're the ones manufacturing the chips.
Cases, motherboards, and most expansion cards (inasmuch as they're Mac-specific, anyway) are the only items you listed that can be said to be "locked in" on the Mac anymore. There's no special hard drive you need to buy for a Mac, they use DDR RAM, same as most PC motherboards, and the peripherals all use the same USB and Firewire as PC peripherals and are almost always compatible with both if they're compatible with a Mac.
What the difference between the Mac and x86 boils down to for this argument is that Apple sells its boxes as one package, same as its competitors (Dell, HP, Gateway), and there's no convenient route for the hobbyist or expert to take if you want to construct and maintain a machine piecemeal. You'll have as much luck upgrading a Dell piecemeal as you would a Mac - you can swap out most parts, but in general it was designed as one package, not as a box that can conveniently let you swap out motherboards.
Consider, too, that most of the time that I buy a new PC motherboard it's at a point where technologies have changed all around. I'd need a new processor to go with the board, then new RAM (either a new standard like DDR or a faster speed variety to take advantage of the new motherboard). If I really want to keep up, then a new hard drive (a faster ATA standard, or maybe even serial ATA) would be in order, and maybe a new video card to take advantage of a faster AGP port. I could get all that fairly cheaply compared to a whole computer from Apple, Dell, or another complete package vendor, but that comes down to a difference in markets, not different levels of lock-in.
On the whole, I think you have to come up with more than cases and motherboards to declare it evil lock-in. Another respondent mentioned software investment, but as I said there, almost any software purchase on any platform is going to lock you into the OS it's designed to run on. And if you design your software choices so that you can compile them anywhere, then it barely matters where you run 'em, PC or Mac - there's a bit of a price advantage to upgrading a PC piecemeal, but if you're just using the Gimp on KDE and a bunch of other open source tools you'll do just as well buying a Mac to run them then later switching to a PC and running the same things, when you're buying a package computer.
Naked.
-- The unsig...
Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive
/lib/modules, as you are going to need it.
Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.
First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.
Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in
Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.
Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.
The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!
Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.
Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.
And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.
Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!
Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.
I'd probably agree with you if it hadn't happened to me.
I have an iBook that died a pretty quick death with the "plaid screen of death" logic board problem. Mine was still under warranty and Apple replaced the logic board with no questions asked about how I had treated it, even though it was pretty scuffed up.
If you have a good logic board, you will never get that particular problem - if you have a bad one, no matter how gently you treat it, it's gonna go south.
This thread is like saying "I don't know what those people who are born with genetic defects are complaining about - look at me, I'm perfectly healthy..."
-- My Weblog.
I have to agree with the author on a certain point. Though I firmly believe Mac OSX is far superior to Linux when it come to my desktop needs, I feel that the quality of Apple's hardware is suspect. Though I really want to use OSX, I dismay that Apple is only vendor that can offer the computers for it. I feel that their leadership in innovative design has come at a price of quality. I don't know of any statistics about Pwerbook/iBook failures or lifespans but I do know my experiences. My Powerbook died after 3 years of use with failures in DVD player after the 1st year. My boss Titanium Powerbook is a far cry from when it was first bought. The screen is defective and the DVD is dead. His previous notebook had screen failure after 2.5 years. For the money we invest in these notebooks ($3000+). One would expect to have them a little longer. There is a huge price beyond the initial premium one pays just to use Mac OsX.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
I don't go for the mass hysteria over F/OSS. To me, all of the fuss is like the whole world is wanting to gang-bang the software developers. It just isn't right. And in that respect, I don't feel guilty for using a Mac and MacOS X. What I do feel guilty about is that Apple has snookered many in the F/OSS community into helping support software that ultimately isn't free. I don't see where having the base layer of MacOS X being OSS is such a big deal except for the PR effect it has on some people. By supporting Apple, through my Apple hardware and software purchases, I feel I'm fostering that kind of misrepresentation. Apple is no different in this regard, of course. Look at IBM for another example: a big Linux supporter with all manner of proprietary software layered on top.
Any other questions?? This is an odd article. I have Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris, and a myriad of other OSes (legitimately licensed -- I have my own company) and I don't feel "guilt" at using or abusing any single one of them. :)
:)
Thanks, GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
How about sticking in the CD while the iMac is booted, going to the 'startup disk' system pref (or control panel if using Classic MacOS) and choosing the OS on the CD as the startup disk, and restarting? If that doesn't work, then I'd say the particular drives in the iMacs don't support booting (not all of them do). Did you install them yourself, or are they stock? I would try booting from an external optical drive or FW hard drive if those iMacs have FireWire ports, and if not, then eBay might be your best bet, as you've got a lab full of lemons on your hand for some reason. You might also investigate the possibility of replacing the optical drives with any other IDE ones, though it gets complicated (see impossible) with those slot-loading ones. Which model iMacs are these? You can also see if netbooting over the network works, though I would recommend at least a 100 BT network for this purpose, as 10 BT can be a little slow. One other possibility is that these macs have their OpenFirmware set not to allow booting from CD. I'm not sure if in that case it would simply not work, or present you with a password to unlock that feature, but it might be something worth looking into. Either way, if you have an entire lab of iMacs, I'm sure Apple Support would be more than happy to send a tech over to fix your problem (for a hefty fee unless you're all covered with AppleCare).
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
Lookie, lookie, lookie, free repair program (and refunds for those who have already paid).
Story on Yahoo
The think the jerkies here forget is, Apple is an OEM. If the motherboard on your Latitude goes to shit, they aren't going to buy a Presario motherboard from HP to replace it. An OEM is going to replace a bad with one of is own, not from some random smoe company.
Duh.
Knock yourself out you horrible linux user you.
...trying some reverse psychology here, aiming for guilt, revulsion and a subconscious unnatural urge to play with his erm... garageband)
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Yeah, if you want to do .Net development, you're locked into Windows. No argument.
On the other hand, if you want to do Cocoa development, you're locked into Apple.
If you want, you can do Java and Perl programming on your Apple. Surprise surprise, you can do those on Windows also, and they won't magically stop working when you change platforms (at least, no more so than any other semi-cross-platform applications would be expected to.)
I don't get the problem here. Most open-source apps have Windows ports. Now if you wanted to say "the very few open-source apps that I use don't have Windows ports", then okay, that's something - but saying that writing code in Windows instantly locks you into Windows seems pretty ludicrous. The same languages still exist, and you can still write the same code.
What's the big deal?
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Apple has recently issued a warranty extension for owners of iBooks made between May '02 and April '03. Here is information on this program:
http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/
If you are having logic board problems, even if you didn't purchase an extended warranty, Apple will replace it for you free of charge. Apple has been good about these kinds of problems before, and with enough prodding, will do the right thing in most cases. Hopefully, people with these problems will be able to find out about this program, rather than throwing out their iBooks.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
When I was in my 20s or 30s, I would certainly have gone with the cheapskate do-it-yourself route. That's the way I did everything back then, learning by doing, but I no longer have the patience for it, and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it. I don't tear my car apart any more when it need attention, nor do much in the way of home improvements, either. And I don't feel locked in to Chrysler just because I get a better trade-in from the dealer I've been buying from for 15 years.
Heres' what I'd like to see, though. Microsoft should finally wise up to the fact that Unix enjoys an unbeatable advantage over any other underlying OS on the internet. That would lead them to give up on their displaced DEC/VMS guys. And then they would grab a Linux kernel, or SCO Unix, and put Windows on top of it. Why not? Apple did essentially the same thing. Then we'd really have choice without incompatibility! And the GUI's could shoot it out to their heart's content, while maintaining POSIX compliance. Would anyone miss VMS/Windows NT?
ThosEM
I think this type of discussion is really healthy and I would love some input. While I wouldn't call what I would feel guilt if I bought a Powerbook guilt I still would long for some Linux in a few ways.
.doc files.
.17 will be ever so cool). I am really torn and while I would love to have a machine that works I think the reservations I mentioned above are really holding me back. Any comments would hgelp me in my dillema. It may all be mott anyway because I am really sold on the idea of the OQO and despite everyones complaint of vapor ware the changes that they made over the last year and displayed at CES made it worth the wait. Having one machine that has everything is very appealing, but a g5 would make a nice gaming machine all the same.
1. I cant click in the middle of the screen to get a menu in OSX.
Yes yes I know this this is a lame complaint, but I really like how Enlightenment and Windowmaker (and others) work. Aqua is really neato I must say, but is there any hack I can load to give me a similar left click menu? The dock is nice, but I just don't think it cuts it.
2. Don't I have to buy MS office anyway?
I must admit I am a bit of a MS hater, not because "MS Sucks" but mainly because I despise things they do like patenting their XML for Office. I have always felt projects like Open Office, AbiWord, etc are wasting their time because MS can always change the format. I don't think I really gain anything by switching to a Mac in getting any better Office document support because I still hate the idea of paying for the Office suite. Isn't Open Office already lagging beind in running on OSX well? Even then it still sucks opening complex
3. iPod, AAC, and iTunes
While I think the Ipod is really neat its strange that device seems more open from Linux then OSX because I can mount the ipod as a hardrive and take MP3s off of the device. Maybe I am wrong, but I didn't think you could cop files off the iPod. Has this changed with AAC? I really want a big MP3 player, but the iRiver HD based players just seem more flexible and a better choice if I don't care about the iTunes music store. I have enough CD players that I will always want to buy the CDs I rip and for Apple to not allow me to copy the music to the iPod and off when using OSX just bugs be.
4. Yes Darwin is free but.....
When Apple sued folks for making Aqua like color schemes and themes.org was forced to remove them I felt like Apple was really being petty. Aqua is not cool because of its colors, but because of its UI. Sueing people for using mutted stripes and neat shades of blue is absurd and is a tactic that just doesnt show me that Apple is as friendly as they try to portrait. This is just one example of many where I feel Apple is two faced. I think this is the issue that bugs more more than anything.
Some things I like about Apple and buying a Mac.
iSync and other things just work. I am a fairly astute Linux person and if its possible to make things work I can do it. I have a nice Bluetooth setup under Linux with my phone and my desktop, but its just not nearly as slick as what OSX does. Plus playing with Rendezvous would be really cool.
Fink.. Atleast most of the F/OSS I want will be available.
Nice hardware. Overall I do believe that Apple hardware is better in many ways and I am almost ok with spending a lot on the hardware to get nice features like dual head support on the PB. I *really* like that feature and I may even spend more money for a cinema display. However, I still think an AMD64 would make a great Linux desktop when its more stable.
I am really torn and I am worried that if I get an Apple I will just install Gentoo or Debian on it because I miss Enlightenment (not to mention Enlightenment
When the hard drive on my Wintel machine crapped out for the third time, I was stunned to discover that I couldn't get Windows running on any of the 68000 or PowerPC machines in my household. The hardware lock-in being too intense, I decided to limit myself to MacOSX on those machines.
Seriously, the fact that the guy had a lemon product from a lemon-prone model and attributes all his problems to the fact that he didn't have another Apple machine there and the MacOSX operating system raises one key issue.
The fact that he bought the iBook because he couldn't get a wireless card working on his brilliant commodity hardware is even weirder.
Uh, let's see...
No.
Next.......
iBook Logic Board program
Not entirely screws his arguement, but it sure helps.
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
Well, I'm typing this from my PBG4, and not from my Linux box, so that says something, I suppose. I was a pretty die-hard Linux user for about two years before I broke down and bought the PowerBook. Linux is cool, and I liked having more control over the hardware, but I was sick of stuff not working. I'm also a musician, and while I love (and use) stuff like CSound, tweaking the Linux box to play nicely with my M-Audio pro soundcard was a PITA (even with stuff like the PlanteCCRMA distro.) I still use the Linux box for some things, and I love the open-source model, but the PowerBook (which was originally supposed to be only for music) has pretty much taken over.
I feel no guilt at atll using Mac OS X. It does everything I want on hardware I like better than that x86 stuff. All my buddies who have PCs are constantly fixing software (mostly Windows problems) or hardware (bad fan kills CPU, northbridge failure, drive crashes...the list goes on)
I put a lot of use into my two Macs here, and the 8600 I've had since 1998, been running it rather constantly for 6 years now, no major problems. It even dual boots to Linux, although it's an old old version (YDL 2000 Q4, IIRC) because I'm always in the Mac OS. I have a G4 to use Unix-y stiff
I don't mind the fact that when you buy Apple you have to buy everything Apple; simply because Apple is what I want. I suppose if I was unhappy with the product, I would buy an x86 machine, be it for Windows or Linux. Besides, these days Macs are compatable enough to be comfortable, I dont' have to go to great lengths to find devices that work...
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Apple has done alright here and has extended warranty coverage for iBook owners starting today:
http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/
Not as good as no problems, but I don't think you can expect too much more than this. Can we get back to bitching about 1 button mice now?
Finally. I've replaced two logic board in the last year. The last one died one year after I purchased the computer.
I've always found the holding-c thing to work, but I can't say I've ever tried it on twenty machines at once.
How about holding down option and selecting it from the openfirmware bootloader thingy?
Can you point me to a single verified instance of Apple invoking the DMCA?
The only supposed instance of which I know was the OtherWorldComputing DVD burner issue. In that case, OWC's ceo claimed that Apple had invoked the DMCA, people asked him to provide documentation in the form of correspondence from Apple, and he suddenly got very quiet.
Do you know of additional instances or substantiation? I would think that one unsupported claim of a single instance is a bit too weak to say that they "love" this law, wouldn't you?
How in the world is Mac OS X Free/Open Source. Have I been under a rock for the past few years and missed the release of Mac OS X to the Free/Open Source community? Where can I download the code to Mac OS X? Maybe you were talking about darwin? There is a whole lot more to Mac OS X then darwin. Darwin by itself is pretty boring. Could you please post the link to the rest of the source to OS X? Oh, that is right, you cannot get the source because it is a closed sourced, proprietary OS that lock you into one hardware vendor. I personally don't care how pretty Mac OS X is. I don't want to be locked into any one vendor. I WANT CHOICE.
Moderators:
Please move along. We all know how this post will be moderated, so save those points!
Apple fan) will mode as troll/flamebait
Linux fan) will mode as interesting/informative/insightful
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Looks like Apple is fixing the problem for free now.
It also raises the obvious question: have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?
No, but I do feel annoyed when a convert tells me I should be running Mac OS X instead of Linux. Almost every single Mac OS X user believes they've found utopia and that they need to spread this joy to the world.
Linux bigots are annoying too, but they're nowhere near as abusive as Mac OS X bigots in my personal experience--I know that I've never called someone stupid to their face for not converting to Linux from Windows when I've mentioned it as a possibility.
*shrug*
After several years of trying to move from Windows to Linux and constant frustration, I moved the whole company to Mac OSX. Now the Linux box sets under my desk shut down 90% of the time. It's hooked to a KVM with a G4 dually and I turn it on to run Windows programs under VMWare and play the best version of Freecell I know of...the only Linux program I use consistently. Guilt! Ya must be kidding!
I really have an issue with this "it's just a tool" mantra. It ignores the basic human instinct to grow attached to inanimate objects or seemingly irrelevant things.
For example, during the 2000 olympics there was an Australian speed walker who was doing really well. She was less than 200m from the finish line, entering the stadium, when she was disqualified for lifting both feet off the ground. She burst into tears. She walked back along the course, in obvious emotional pain. Would you walk up to that person and say "it's just a race, get over it you idiot"?
Of course not. She had invested years of her life in training for that event. She was strongly and emotionally tied to the event. It meant a lot to her. It was a horrible thing, to have that moment taken away from her.
There were some recent bushfires in my city. Several 100 homes were destroyed (in a city of 300,000 people that's significant). During the TV coverage a number of distraught homeowners burst into tears. They were completely devastated by what had happened. Would you walk up to these people and say "they were just things, get over it you idiot"?
I'd hope not! These "things" represented their entire lives. Decades of work and investment into their hobbies and their retirement, gone in an instant. They had strong emotional attachment to the homes; they'd raised their children in those homes. To see it all gone was painful to these people.
But the most touching example, and perhaps the one you won't understand, was while reading www.folklore.org. Andy was one of the original Apple Mac developers. He had invested years of his life into helping create the original Mac 128k. No holidays. 7 days a week. 12 hours a day. He had poured his heart and soul into the software. Then one day, a clueless manager (Bob) threatened to fire Andy unless he kissed Bob's arse in front of the other Apple techies. Andy broke down into tears and bawled his eyes out. Would you walk up to Andy and say "it's just a tool, don't be an idiot"?
If you could do such a thing then you're a heartless monster. Andy had obviously formed an emotional attachment to the Mac. Afterall, he had been with it from the first logic gate. He had put so much time and effort into it, that it was painful to him to even imagine losing it. It's like a gifted artist who spends years creating a painting, only to watch it burn in a house fire. It's incredibly painful to see something that represents all of your skill, your time, and your effort, being destroyed or taken away from you.
So to you it's "just a tool". But to other people it's so much more. I see Linux (and all free software) as being a way to bring greater prosperity to the world. It's a way for poorer countries and poorer people to have access to the same great software that I have. I've invested 100s of hours into it, and even though that's a tiny percentage of the billions of man hours invested in Linux, to have it taken away from me would be emotionally painful. It means something to me.
So you might think that's stupid. But I think that says more about you than it says about me.
That's an excellent description of OS X's strengths. If I could mod you to a 6, I would.
Story on Yahoo too.
Quite frankly, Linux always feels pretty "rough around the edges", and I'm not sure that'll ever really go away. (Some of it is probably inherent when you're talking about an OS developed by anyone, anyplace on the globe, who feels like contributing some code to it.)
The Mac with OS X is the polar opposite of this, with a stunningly beautiful GUI and some of the most original GUI-related concepts I've seen on any platform. (Even Gnome and KDE couldn't seem to resist sticking to the Windows-esque concept of some sort of START type button in a corner of the screen with menu windows popping open from it, listing the applications you can launch. OS X bypassed that completely with the "dock" idea.)
If you really are a command-line "power user" in Unix OS's, then yeah, Mac OS X is currently not really for you. The thing is, I suspect relatively few of us really work from the CLI as much as we like to think we do. (I know for example, I have several good friends who are nearly Linux zealots, and they constantly like to point out the powerful things that can be done from the shell prompt. They're quite right, except I still see their machines running X and a window manager most of the time. Unless your system is primarily a server, being remotely accessed but not generally used locally, a GUI is usually more pleasing to the eye, and is the environment people would rather be in. (If nothing else, people like having nice looking pictures as their "wallpaper", instead of staring at a blank screen with white text and a blinking cursor on it.)
I think of Mac OS X as "Unix for the rest of us", sort of how the original Macintosh was supposed to be the "computer for the rest of us".
I'm sorry you felt somehow offended by what I wrote. It wasn't directed towards anyone who does have a vested interest.
I think it might be a good idea to go revisit what I wrote. If you still feel offended, I think you might take a hard look at exactly what's making you mad.
Take it from me--the words weren't directed against anyone who's spent a single hour developing, using, or learning about something, whether it's Linux, Windows or poetry. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about something you like doing.
What I do take issue with is when people start flaming and whining because other people don't feel the same way they do. What I take issue with is people who act as if the "other side" is morally bankrupt, is an enemy, or should change, simply because they don't agree. The thing about zealots is that they aren't comfortable enough in their passions to just let other people do something different.
I'm happy you feel passionate about OSS and Linux. Believe me, I'm quite passionate about OSS myself. But there's a clear difference between passion and zealotry.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
(emphasis added)
I cannot justify anything else on your list but I can say having come to OS X and having used OS/2 in the past I can say with absolute certainty that file systems which store additional metadata are indeed a GOOD thing.
I rather enjoy that when I write a file no matter what I name it it will still be identifiable to the GUI as a particular type of file created by a particular application. Note that HFS+ actually has THREE forks. The main is of course the data fork and I strongly believe that all data belogns in it. The second is the resource fork which I also strongly believe should go the way of the dodo. However, the third is where type and creator information as well as a few handy bits of info are stored. This fork is really vital to a properly functioning GUI. If implemented properly (as it is in OS X) a file can be completely stripped of it and make it across the network with all file data intact. However, when on a local system (or network) the meta data that the GUI stores really adds to the user experience.
they constantly like to point out the powerful things that can be done from the shell prompt. They're quite right, except I still see their machines running X and a window manager most of the time.
:)
Just a quick note for you: a CLI and a GUI are not mutually exclusive. The real question is - how many terminal windows are open at once on your friends' GUIs? At an average I'd say I have 5 or 6 terminals open at any one time using linux. And I often have two cygwin terminals open when using Windows.
Of course it's nice to have pretty wallpaper and a few bells and whistles. But they don't get the work done
Well, I can't defend Apple on the iBook problems. Quite frankly, it's a disgrace that they #1, released a product with an issue this major that wasn't caught pre-production, but #2, refused to openly admit there was a problem and issue a recall or official fix.
... so problems in their notebook line isn't really anything new.
That being said, defective hardware comes from every manufacturer, sooner or later. People loved IBM's hard drives (quiet, great performance, etc.) until they screwed up and released those Deskstar models that constantly crashed. Next thing you know, everyone started calling their whole product line "Deathstars" and wanted no part of them. Toshiba constantly releases flawed laptops, but their strategy of "change models every few months" seems to prevent a critical mass of complaints about any single issue. (Almost every Satellite S405 series eventually had issues where it would seem like it was dead. Turned out the little switch that gets depressed when the lid is shut would get stuck down - so it would think it wasn't supposed to turn on the display and boot normally. That's just one small example of a flaw in their products.)
Years ago, Apple made the Powerbook 5400 series that could catch itself on fire
Still, they generally have some of the most thoughtfully designed and elegant + useful laptops on the market. I've just learned to do lots of research before purchasing. That's why I went with a new Powerbook 15" instead of an iBook model. It's apparent to me the iBooks have too many design issues Apple hasn't addressed/completely solved yet.
i used to use Linux, then for a long time FreeBSD. but i
have made the switch to Mac OS X. i use it to do all my
developement, mostly in C++. i found it quite nice. i
stick with X and gnu software however. i use the X server
from apple, and have my own version of gcc 3.3.1 compiled
and installed so it will compile my code (yes, some versions
of gcc still do not compile all C++ code).
do i miss Linux, no. i never liked it that much anyways.
do i miss FreeBSD? a bit. my Mac (PowerBook) is slower.
but overall, while my compiles take longer, i find the Mac
a much more "fun" computer to use. safari is great. spell
checking is great. having computer read out what you
typed so to see if it sounds right is great. be able to plug
in a digicam, work with iPhoto then iMovie, it's great. being
able to use photoshop, powerpoint, keynote are also
pluses. you can say what you will about microsoft,
powerpoint is nice.
OS X is not perfect. but it reminds me of early linux days
when things weren't perfect. i think it will only get better.
seeing my wife and family and friends use a unix system, i
finally feel like the past 20 years of OS research have not
gone to waste!
I have been a Unix/Linux head for the last 12 or 15 years. but lets face it.. you always need windows for something, to open a video, to open a presentation, to create a nice diagram, etc. Yes, i know that there are zillions of programs to do that on linux, but maybe thats the problem, so much choice, so little time.. With OS X, i get all the unix power, all the shell flexiblity, all the X benefits and all the commercial alternatives. The GUI its really nice, and even my wife can use it whitout knowing a thing about computers.
Unix its simple, but sometimes it takes a geniuos to understand the simplicity -- Dennis Ritchie
I like Apple because they steal lots of code that was meant to be freely installed on open hardware platforms....add in a few bells and whistles...slap it on some non-standard hardware...and then call it theirs and forget to "Dance with who brung yu". I think if you use code that was free, you should release your code as well...and everybody benefits.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Metadata is fine. Even the UNIX filesystem has metadata (eg, the rwx bits, atime, mtime, ctime, the filename itself). I have a real gripe with forked filesystems like HFS and HFS+ and NTFS and HPFS. I think they introduce needless complexity that could be more simply achieved with extensible metadata.
But I don't really want to be drawn into this argument because I lose it everytime I try :-/
MacOSX's dock is a blatant rip off of the docks used on AmigaOS for quite some time. MacOSX is a freaking AmigaOS w/Scalos and Amidock clone.
I'm not mad. I get sullen when I get mad and I don't write anything at all.
Sure, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being passionate about things that other people are doing either. For example, some people become very emotionally attached to their football teams, even if they never participate in the game themselves. I've seen people break down in tears when their team loses the grand final. I don't personally feel that way about any sport, but I don't ridicule these people for feeling an emotional attachment to something.
Those people aren't zealots, they're dickheads. Don't confuse the two.
Well, to be more precise, they might be both zealots and dickheads. But the part of their personality that makes them flame and whine is their dickheadness, not their zeal.
I disagree. Zeal is passion. Look it up in a dictionary. From Webster's:
The word "zealot" has been corrupted by people who want to cast "zealots" in the worst possible light. Don't contribute to the problem! Try and fix it through education. There's nothing wrong with being zealous. It's dickheads that we need to get rid of. Call them dickheads. Don't call them zealots. Calling them zealots leads to confusion because it implies that if you're passionate about Linux then there's something wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about Linux! It's a uniquely important thing. Everybody can see that. Free software is something that could potentially change the world for the better. How can you not be excited about that.
only because this 17" powerbook of mine is so damn decadent.
but seriously... linux is great and all, and i use it to code, because JBuilder X won't run on a mac processor (damn them), but OS X is just way better as a desktop environment. i run linux servers, sure, and ximian is dope, but it seems to mem leak like mad. i have to reboot while coding on ximian at least once a day (i didn't have to when i was running kde). i hope they fix that tho, 'cause i love the ximian UI (i'm still not going back to gnome or kde).
Maybe that's the reason why they need to have those bubbles popping up with an explanation of their use when the mouse hovers over them?
You're a whore along with all the mods giving you + points. No bubbles pop up when you hover over the window widgets in Mac OS X (10.3) you FUCKING WANK. Quit lying and trolling. And mods? Get a fucking clue.
Wanks.
I own 3 generations of Apple laptops. The original, orange ibook, an ibook2 600mhz, and a 12" powerbook. My original ibook runs debians ppc distro exclusively. With only 3.2 gb of storage and a 300 mhz processor, OSX is out of the question, even with 192mb of ram. Apps for OS9 are limited. Linux and IceWM give me a ton of applications, including openoffice.org, in a resource friendly environment. After 5 years of performance, I praise it.
Ibooks do have battery issues. Issues that I have learned more about with my dual booting ibook 2. I type on it now with mozilla from debian testing. OSX thinks that the battery only has 30 minutes of life. Because pmud is broken on the ibook2, the chip on the battery is not able to tell pmud that the battery is "low" and consequently snooze it. I have learned that I can use it for hours with 0:00 time left on the battery confirming that the battery is good and that its chip and/or OSX's power monitor are broken. Only Linux could have revealed this to me. Had I trusted apple's gui, I would have bought a second battery for it as I did for the original ibook.
The powerbook also had a logic board issue. I just had it repaired by Apple. Applying pressure to the underside of a 12" g3 powerbook just to the left of the touchpad would freeze the laptop like clockwork. This is a big deal to me because I carry each of these machines around with one hand. Apple repaired it, though, and it works. It just runs OSX, though, and I expect to leave it that way.
Linux and OS whatever co-exist quite nicely on apple's machines. Sometimes Linux does more than Apple's own OS can, and sometimes there is just no need for the change. Open Office has been available longer for linux than osx, and after two Master's Degrees on my original ibook, I can attest that anyone who says the linux desktop is not ready really does not know. It is, in fact, further along in some ways.
Success without humility is an indulgence in arrogance
Great Journalism that doesn't reflect personal biases at all.....
"It's not Linux, there for we must post a negative article about it in the main section."
By the way, I use FreeBSD.
You are quite right that, there is nothing wrong in being zealous, but rather in the ways which one expresses their zeal.
Let's see what the OED has to say about zealot:
Someone who not only has passion, but is so fervent about their passions as to place it above all other concerns--whether they be justice, morality, responsibility or equality. Not just zeal, but a disparaging excess of zeal.
Ultimately the framework of our society relies upon the give and take between individuals and groups. A sense of fairness that some people (dickheads) do not have. You're right, zealotry doesn't inherently imply that someone will act in a way that will be disparaging towards others, but it does happen far too much.
It's too easy to devalue passion by calling someone a zealot. You're right that the term is colloquially misused, and you're right, I'm party to it. I will be more careful where I use the term.
But we can't go the opposite direction either--zealotry can be a very dangerous thing. Zealotry is the crescendo of human emotion fixed upon a single idea. Many, many people fixate their entire sense of self upon that idea, and to have it broken would break their raison d'etre. It's a excruciating experience that--when faced with its possibility--many have resorted to hideous acts to avoid.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
...not researching other OSes and for having used Linux for as many years as I did. What a waste of time and productivity killer... though a fun toy. I don't feel guilty for using my Mac and I especially don't feel guilty for saying that FreeBSD/KDE is my preferred desktop over even my Mac. Mac and FreeBSD, from the dawn of opening a new CD to the installation on a piece of hardware, is so close it's not even funny (props to the ports@/kde@ teams!). Here's the killer though, and the reason I use my Mac more than my PoS Dell FreeBSD laptop (good OS, bad hardware): the hardware and design is just too good to be true. Have any other Powerbook users ever wondered when the novelty of being able to have my powerbook snap out of sleep mode in less than 2seconds will wear off? Too many years of bad Intel hardware have left me with an all to permanent disdain for x86. I'm hoping that AMD will have decent x86-64 power management in the coming years and will be able to compete with Mac's Powerbooks, but until then... no, I don't feel guilty. If you're a mecanic, do you feel guilty for driving a BMW M5? I hope not, I know I wouldn't.
-- Sean Chittenden
What is the deal with you linux geeks? You have to try to pressure everyone to switch to linux? Tomorrow I'm having an iBook delivered, and linux will never see the light of day on that hardware. With incredible apps like Final Cut Pro, Soundtrack, and Garageband, not to mention countless other apps, I will always have a OS where I can get stuff done. By the sounds of the amount you people like to screw with linux, you only use it for internet, email, and aim. Theres other people in the real world that actually have to *get stuff done*.
Seriously, that nice shiny new Apple you just got WILL last for years, and when it's no longer good enough to run the current Mac OS for use as a desktop machine, it will run one or more of linux and the BSD's very well as a server/router type box.
I've run Mac OS 1-9.x Classic, OS X, linux, netbsd and openbsd on Apple hardware over the years. debian is especially nice on powerpc hardware, openbsd is excellent for old laptops as development machines, netbsd runs on damn near all of them of course.
And of course OS X comes with ssh, rsync, and now X 11 pre-installed with native Aqua look and feel. It IS the motherfucking BMW of personal machines.
This email of course is being sent from the Knoppix/Windows XP (thanks, vmware!) machine on my desk (good and evil, light and dark, all at 1.7GHz! yee ha, thanks Intel!)
Wow. No really. Wow.
---
The wow guy
...that makes me not feel guilty about using a mac instead of Linux.
After seeing five years of kernel hackers and people working on OSS desktop projects like GNOME and KDE telling end-users to quit whining about what they get for free or to shut up and write stuff themselves, any warm and squishy feeling I once had using Linux has totally evaporated.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
When we end-users have problems with the usability of OSS software, OSS developers tell us to quit complaining about what we get for free. Then when we shrug our shoulders and say "with OSS you get what you pay for", the a priori conclusion to their very own statement, we are told "how dare you insult OSS developers and the work that they do".
How very confusing.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
The good thing about the fact that Mac OS X runs only on Apple hardware is that it uses the best there is of the hardware and the hardware itself is good. Linux tends to be all-hardware-friendly, with various results, especialy in laptops. There are NO Linux-based laptops where I live and most of the Windows-based are Windows-or-nothing, so I bought an iBook and I haven't felt guilty once. That's one UNIX-like system I am willing to pay for anytime.
The dock idea isnt new. Windowmaker has been doing it for years. Apple just made it prettier, and turned it on its side.
.
> The dock idea isnt new. Windowmaker has been doing it for years. Apple just made it prettier, and turned it on its side.
Er, you do know where Windowmaker got it's dock from, don't you? (No, I don't mean Afterstep.)
MacOSX's dock is a blatant rip off of the docks used on AmigaOS for quite some time. MacOSX is a freaking AmigaOS w/Scalos and Amidock clone.
Actually, it's a bit of a stretch to say that the OS X dock is a blatant rip off of anything. It's a derivative of the NeXTstep dock, which appeared around 1988, well before the Amiga ever had anything comparable.
Mac OS X is not a clone of either of those OSes, it's an evolution of NeXTstep/OpenStep, which was a very influential OS in it's day. It's far more likely that any similarities you see other than a menu bar at the top of the screen, are actually due to AmigaOS copying features from NeXTstep than the other way around.
Join our kinky staff team and make truckloads writing about horny lesbian sex.
Deuce Bigalow
I really have to ask myself, is that author of the article smart? He bought a laptop he is not happy with because of faulty logic boards, but he feels he must use it instead of selling it on eBay and buying a Dell or Toshiba or IBM. He used OS X but managed not to write a single word about whether it is was good or bad. Now he is switching to Linux only to have an option of backing his laptop files to Linux box.
What is actually the point of all that? That he would like to run OS X on commodity PC hardware? I would like that too, but it's not happening yet. Other than that, I can't really see anything in that article about his needs, about his likes and dislikes about Apple OS X. Not a terribly informative reading...
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
OS/X is basically FreeBSD with some eye candy, I told myself. That got it in the door. I installed the X server so that I can still run a lot of the standard stuff from the FreeBSD and GNU/Linux worlds. (Getting Japanese to work on the X side of things is a pain! Never had any trouble, even in 1998, getting a Japanese environment to work on FreeBSD.)
But there are a lot of things different than FreeBSD. The startup for one. FreeBSD was so much easier than Linux to get what I wanted up and running at startup. Just put a script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d. (Never did figure out what all of the different boot levels on Linux were about.) I have yet to figure out how to do it properly on OS/X. There's a startup directory under /System, but it doesn't appear to take shell scripts. If an application doesn't do it's magic when the package is installed, it doesn't get used. I feel like this sort of thing has been hidden from the end user, and it's annoying. FreeBSD was so well put together from an administrative point of view, why hide these things?
But in the end, the complaints are relatively few. I no longer cvsup the world every few weeks, leaving make world running all night. (Well, I do still have a number of other FreeBSD servers scattered over the planet, so it's not quite "never" - just no longer with a direct link to the keyboard.) It's taking a while, but I'm slowly finding applications that perform as well on OS/X as on FreeBSD. (Until I recently upgraded iTerm, editing Japanese documents with vim hasn't been nearly as easy as it had been in kterm.)
Yea, I miss FreeBSD as my primary desktop/development machine. But my parents like that I now edit videos of their grandchildren and send them to them online and via DVD as they're 13 time zones away.
My primary workstations both have X running, and one's even using KDE. However, the main reason I use a GUI is 1) to use a graphical web browser (I sysadmin/develop for a web devel company - graphical web is rather important) and 2) to have several terminal sessions open and visible at the same time. Yeah, I could run programs that manipulate the terminal, and set up to use something other than an 80x20 console - but it's quite a bit easier with X. And you really can't drag console "windows" around, set them on top of each other, etc. I'm still a CLI user, though. Text is edited with vim (sometimes gvim, but not often), files are moved with "mv", tasks are automated by perl, etc.
:)
I don't use wallpaper, in general. The background is a color other than black, most of the time...
Honestly, I think Mac Os X is still a bit rough, but people don't notice that 'cause there's so muc eye candy. Sticking the fink distrib (or whatever you'd call that) on the box helps, but there are still several things little things that just aren't quite "right" with OS X - X.3 is quite a bit closer, though.
Nice way to back away from your words by failing to address my arguments against them -- save one which you danced around.
Point blank, only one company can make IA-32 chips. AMD makes something that is similar but not the same and they're diverging even more in the 64bit arena with AMD64 and IA-64.
PowerPC is a joint venture between Apple, IBM, and SPS Spinco (Motorola's spun-off PowerPC unit). They share technology and specs.
mbbac
Well, the iBook was an impulse buy ($1299 for the 12" model at the time) and the cheapest Powerbook was a 15" Titanium for around $2000. They didn't come out with the 12" Powerbooks until 6 months after I bought my iBook. I was thinking of upgrading to a 15" Powerbook until I saw all the problems with this white spot issue on the screens and the supposedly horrible battery life. My iBook gets a solid 3.5-4 hours on it's battery and I don't think I can live with less. G4 Powerbooks really need two batteries.
Hey..I work for Apple so I'm definitely not an unbiased opinion....BUT
Apple has to charge more because:
a) their stuff is built MUCH better...and designed better...and built with better components..many of which are custom made. They are built in smaller quantities too, which jacks the pricing up.
b) they pay their employees well, and give good benefits. we have comfortable chairs, can requisition comfort appliances (armrests, back supports, wrist straps, left handed mice, etc) we actually GET PAID for our overtime, we get real vacations, we get holidays...if there's overtime we get fed. in other words..we're treated well. I was trained for almost 4 weeks before being sent to work....so I *gasp* actually knew what I was doing when I started.
c) they make a profit (a novel concept in a capitalist society, I know)..dell probably has to sell 4 shitty laptops to make what apple makes selling one. this isn't greed, it's good business sense. don't sell cheap crap..it makes you look bad and is unprofitable..sell quality products and people will pay more.
d) SOMEBODY has to fund all the R&D that goes into UI design. ever notice GNOME, KDE, Windows, and many others look a hell of a lot like the mac UI? SOMEBODY PAID FOR THAT RESEARCH...and it was Apple users. (don't even bring up the Xerox parc history....apple borrowed the following ideas from them: a mouse, a pointer that points at buttons on the screen. the rest was Apple.)
so essentially, if you buy a mac you're paying to do the research and development for the rest of the copycats in the computer world. blame them, not Apple.
the money you spend on a mac is NOT going directly into Steve Jobs' wallet.
What. The. Fuck.
Parent modded as "troll"?
.sigs are for post^Hers.
"zero point two percent." ...
if that would be alcohol in you blood you'd be
pretty drunk
Well, KDE is a cheesy copy of Windows 2000, and Gnome is ... well, I'm not sure what it is since there are about a billion interfaces to it. Most of the attractive ones look like the designers were a bit too much into Goth, which isn't surprising since Gothic types may be morbid, but at least they're clever.
:-(.
I found it amusing that the Gothic designers would spend hours and hours on beautiful 3D rendering for their almost illegible Gothic fonts, leaving the fonts you actually had to use as unreadable as ever
So you have two type of people working on Gnome/KDE, the types who want to not frighten people by making their system look as much like Windows as humanly possible, and those who do want to frighten people with morbid images! What an unbeatable combination.
(I might sound less bitter if I'd succeeded in getting just one of the Gothic themes to actually work on my Linux PC. I actually like the Gothic types, but I can't resist poking some gentle fun at them).
Anyway, with that setting the stage, you can see how much of a breath of fresh air MacOS X was to me. It's an original interface, that looks lovely and owes debts to nothing save its NeXTian ancestors. The fonts are lovely out of the box; you don't have to install complex X-Windows extensions with elaborate 15 step procedures to make them look ok; you can make 'em look great without any effort whatsoever. You can use great applications like Final Cut Pro and GarageBand, together with Unix stalwarts like emacs and all the command line stuff I know and love.
I don't find MacOS X deficient in command line operation at all. There is emacs (although I wish there was a graphical version that used lovely Cocoa fonts), all my friends tar and ssh and gcc and so on are present and accounted for. It's true that command line administration is a bit obscure, but if you (like me) don't do a lot of administration on your personal computer, that's perfectly fine.
It looks like I echo a lot of MacOS X users, when I note my 10-odd terminal windows and my 10-odd web browser windows. The value of the GUI seems to be primarily in the web browser when I'm doing work. Of course that might be because I develop web sites.
There's definite value in having Unix and Photoshop on the same machine, and that alone makes MacOS X beat Linux and other Unix variants effortlessly.
It's one computer for functions that used to take two or more. Not bad at all.
D
I've looked for a VNC client for Mac OS X, and can't find one that works. Tried Versiontracker and there seem to be several for Mac OS 8-9, not X.
Any help would be appreciated.
I have posted a few essays on the topic at ophion.freeshell.org.
The point is that I can buy a PC from many different vendors, and my software will work on any of them. OS X software only works on Apples, period. Really, this is pretty elementary, I'm starting to suspect you Mac fans are just being purposely obtuse because you know you can't win the argument.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
Except that Windowmaker stole it from NextStep/OpenStep...geez...
True... but the white spot issues seem to have been resolved now. My 15" Powerbook hasn't had any, and the issue, in general, seems to be quieting down. People sending back Powerbook 15"'s with the white spots on them are receiving replacement notebooks with a revised lid (more reinforcement behind the LCD panel, apparently). On the ones that had the spot problems, you could apply a small amount of pressure to parts of the lid and see the LCD display deform where your fingers were pressing down. The revised ones no longer do that.
Battery life on the Powerbooks isn't anything great (but in line with the typical PC laptop). I get roughly 2 hours out of mine. Sure, more would be better, but I usually just plug in my AC adapter anyway. I like having a laptop so it's easy to get it from point A to B, where I set it back up on a table or desk.... Even in the car, I have one of those adapters that plugs into a cigarette lighter to power the laptop.
Looks like a trick question. Linux is still not mature enough. It still takes a fair amount of knowhow to get a distro to work correctly. Yes, it has matured much since the first install I tried (1996). However, 20 years of computer use has worn away the last bit (sorry) of geakin' in me. I want it to work, and I want it to work now.
OS X got me interested in Macs again. The Mac OS has sucked for quite some time, which is why I stayed on PC hardware.
I spent a lot of time looking for a MS alternative that wasn't a huge time-sink. OS/2 was great, as was Be. The x86 port of Solaris was a good time. I even strayed a little with Amigas, and got my hands on an Acorn once or twice. NeXT, SGI, and SPARC were (and are) just too freakin' much money.
And life is short.
When spending the time tweaking machines, I have always found BSD (I used Net and Open) to be a far better payoff for the time. Yes, I have the occasional twinge of guilt because I now use BSD (and NeXT) once removed when I run my OS X boxes.
Peace to All,
Mike Nomad
Anyone who claims toy status for OS X machines need only look to that link. :\
I guess we're going to
#define toy different from linux in any way \
making it bad mm'kay! Gentoo rules!
There are very few things you cannot do with a mac system, even using standard tools. Sometimes, it's not immediately obvious because the system handles so much of the gory details for you, but it's just not true.
How can you be similar to an Intel processor? Either it executes IA32 opcodes or it doesn't, and both AMD and VIA sell processors that do (modulo MMX/3DNow/SSE, all of which are optional and detectable).
To choose among any operating system on a mac (apple doesn't care what you use, since you obviously have the license to the software by owning a mac) you can hold down option while booting to get you into openfirmware. now installing linux to an already partitioned drive w/ win2k on it, is a big hassle. you can take your booot strap and shove it in your rear.
I have no guilt at all. I still fully support Linux on my x86 hardware, but I'll tell you I am impressed with the finished desktop environment I get in my Power Mac G3 with OSX Jaguar, and I look forward to using the newer OSX when I finally aquire a G4 or G5 machine.
I do lean towards redhat like linux distros on x86, though the roll your own distros are nice for near total control.
Regards,
Ryan Pritchard
Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
why do you bother posting anymore? you shown yourself to be a complete moron with no regard to people's freedom of speech and have your karma ruined because of it.
EAT SHIT AND DIE STARMANTA
have you ever felt guilty over using Mac OS X instead of Linux?
Fortunately, I am not an American, so I am not plagued by feelings of guilt about anything, like you reprehensive low lifes are about everything.
So go ahead - feel guilty about using a Mac. But don't stop there - continue: start feeling guilty as well for FUCKING UP this nice world for everyone else.
I've run into more practicing, devout Catholics who don't think twice about masturbating than i ever have thoss who would feel guilt over something like OS indescretions.
I'm therefore comfortable saying that guilt is the last thing people feel when opening their TiBook and logging in.
~J
OT: Regarding your signature about Venezuela
How did I "back away from my words" when I didn't even make the original post? Quit putting words in my mouth and learn to read.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
(Even Gnome and KDE couldn't seem to resist sticking to the Windows-esque concept of some sort of START type button in a corner of the screen with menu windows popping open from it, listing the applications you can launch. OS X bypassed that completely with the "dock" idea.) Actually, that's all from Apple's Apple menu in the top left. M$ jsut made it drop and added a word.
These are some of the things molecules do...... given 4 billion years -Carl Sagan