The article doesn't actually say "companies racing to support Linux" - does it? It does say that people in big (unnamed) companies are willing to trial it on a small "risk-free" project or trial.
If (or more likely when) they realise that Linux is a viable replacement to their current, presumably NT systems, this is when they will "rush to support Linux".
I'm not putting a downer on thing, I think it's more a case of "Companies limber up at starting blocks".
But yeah, the news is good - but I'd like to see names and details of those involved. The following "from what I've heard, I'm willing to try it in a small project," said the manager, who asked that he and his firm not be identified. seems to imply that this (typical) manager envisages a loss of custom if his firm is seen to support something like Linux. Worrying huh?
Mong.
Oh yeah, "First Post - Hurrah", blahblah (idiots).
* Paul Madley...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Re:Sorry about the format, better here...
on
SuSE Labs Formed
·
· Score: 1
Erm, we are capabable of using Babelfish you know:)
Seriously, IMHO you should have attempted to improve the actual langauge in the Babelfish output.
I'm not being nasty or anything, just pointing out something kinda obvoious:p
I agree, but they seem like they can do it right and if they take RHs "mistakes" as "lessons learned" then everything should be okay.
Good Luck to them!
Off the thread though: Yet again we're told to put a url through Babelfish. Well, I quote the very first line of the SuSE report "the SuSE getting thing AG, one the Linux Distributoren leading world-wide". Babelfish is neat, but I don't think it should be relied on in a manadtoraly (sic?) English speaking environment.
The url will probably (almost defiantley) disappear in a day or so, but the gist is the recent of the recent World Hotdog Eating Championship (honest!) where the winner ate 21 Frankfurters in 12 minutes. Apparently, it was all down to "zen", to prove it he even ate some more!
I obviously deny most vehemntly any accusations of ignorance. If asked to implement a whole new network, I'd instantly recommend a Linux backbone to deal with mail, web and files. Then I'd have NT4 on the desktop. Incidentally, I could actually do (some) of this myself - definatley the HTTP side anyway.
I didn't simply install it and then "give up". It's still there. I use it about an hour or so a week, either for some GIMP effects not in Photoshop, or to test that my latest pages work under a Linux NS and even in Lynx.
I was really proud of myself when I configured a variety of things by editing some config files (mostly Apache related) and have relished in the raw power provided by the Linux CLI vs the DOS one.
There are _no_ web development tools which appeal to me on Linux. Enhanced EMACS? Yeah sure... gimme Dreamweaver, Fusion or even FP98 any day. It's not "sheer ignorance" - quite the reverse in fact. I think maybe it's other who are ignorant of the wide range of quality (if admittedly costly) software available for the Win platform. Maybe thats the point - you gets whats you pays for. Okay, the actual OS isn't half as efficent/stable/etc as Linux, but the available software is pretty f*cking neat in many cases.
I don't usually respond to a personal attack, but... You don't know me, you don't know of how many hours I spent configuring my system (or trying to), I posted loads of comments on a very Linux centric BBS. Many of the questions were answered (thank you!) - but the griping one about WindowMaker wasn't, apart from being told "read the docs". I did, the docs told me that I had to spend ages manually adding programs to the main menu - I don't know where many of these programs are on my HD (etc).
The point (there is one) is that Linux is not friendly to new, non-technical users. As far as my particular course goes, I'm one of the most "techie" on it - I only know about 3 or 4 people who actually understand anything about what Linux is (let alone use it). For Gods sake; some of my colleagues struggle to import a picture into Word, or use a "wizard" to make a webpage. You expect these people to recommend Linux/UNIX as a soloution? They don't even know what it is.
Hmm, I don't use Windows to protest against you - I use it becuase I need it. If all my favourite tools were ported to Linux (freely or otherwise), I'd jump straight across. Especially if the GUI had the intuitiveness that Win95/98/NT undeniably has.
Which brings me to another point. Much of the Linux commnunity wants everything free or GPL'd or whatever... people like Adobe or Macromedia are not about to release the latest versions of their software freely (do you know how much these cost?) use your common sense here! I think maybe you need to accept that times are changing - Linux is verging on breaking onto the mainstream desktop... don't let a commendable ideology stand in the way of common sense.
However, I think people are too unwilling to change. Plus, as a technical soloution, there are more MS-Experienced IT "professionals" than Unix/Linux ones. So where's the support coming from.
I do however sense that the UK as a whole is far less aware of Linux/Unix than the RotW - so maybe this is why people seem a little perplexed by my standpoint.
So, Linux supports some completely non-standard hardware better than Windows? I'm pretty certain that Win98 has special 3DNow! commands (in DirectX6?), this is probably the root of your problems.
I overclocked my (ahem...) Cyrix 300 to 366 - works fine under both OS's.
I'm not trying to turn this into a Linux V Win debate (they're so boring now). I just wanted to contribute an "outsiders" insight.
> -Uh, Paul. If it's never bluescreened on you,why > did you say you can't remember the last time it > did. Kind of sounds like it did but you don't > want to admit it.
No. I've recently started a job using NT4 all the time. It's never done anything nasty.
What I can't remember is the last time my Win95c box crashed.
I'll admit it has, MS products have a reputation for unreliability - but the most recent releases are better, not good, but better.
I'm not "refusing to remain ignorant" (I know what you mean), I've tried RedHat, make heavy (if basic) use of a shell account and I grew up on Amiga etc...
It's just that apart from the reliability issue, Linux appeals more as a curiosity, than as a genuine replacement to my Win32 systems.
MS annoys me, don't get me wrong - There Bloatwear is overpriced and overrated.
"it requires a bit of study".
Software, especially the OS, is a tool - a means to an end. Why should I study it before using it? Do you study the complex workings of your car engine before you drive it? Do you become an expert in Telecoms before switching on your TV? Nope! Hmm, maybe I should have read a sex manual tho...;)
This was exactly the sort of article I've been meaning to write for quite some time.
As a user of a well know, linux-centric BBS ( FIX), I've become more and more aware of the benefits associated with running a Linux system.
I finally "bit the bullet" and installed RH5.2 - This was my first real experience of Linux other than a shell account (or 10!). I wouldn't say it was a disaster, but it wasn't a success. The installation required a phone call to a techie friend (about partitions) and my on-board sound wasn't supported, neither is the ancient SB16(clone). Oh, and even the cheapo S3DX wasn't quite setup properly.
But these weren't the problem. I instantly took to Window Maker over the other supplied Gooeys - but it wasn't configured, I needed to (and still do) configure the main menu, to display the programs that were installed upon installation. Very annoying, Win3.1 does it better! So, I switched to AfterStep, but find it a bit "fiddly" or "awkward". The documentation is not entirley comprehensive, or it's so poorly organised I can't find it. It's also aimed at experts, people who already understand most things - it's little use to me.
Anyway... after a while playing with GIMP, I realised there was nothing I really needed on my new Linux box. On my Win box, I have all the tools I need as a webdeveloper and IT Student (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Word, Apache, PHP etc) - basically, it does everything I ask of it, and it's pretty stable, despite what the general view of '95 is. Maybe this is because I use 95C (the final release), but it's fine for my needs.
I'm looking at the SUsE dist' as it looks more suited to me (and comes with KDE), but I'm considering waiting for the Corel release - it looks like it's going to be a whole lot more intuitive and generally "user-friendly" than anything currently on offer.
Bear in mind that I'm an IT student, so I'm fairly technically minded - with this in mind, how does the Linux community really hope to win over "John in Accounts" or "Sally in Admin"? If "Paul in IT" has problems...
I support a worthy cause, and Linux, OpenSource et al is just that... when are you gonna support me?
> I really don't see how they have any right to > say who can and cannot link to their site. > imho by putting a site on the www you are > granting people the right to link to it, > whether you like it or not.
You are of course entilitled to your opinion - and thats what the WWW (atm) is about. It's a (vitually) unmoderated, legislated media, where what's right and wrong is a matter of opinion.
Possibly, copyright laws about use of a tradename/mark could be brought into play, but generally there is little than can be done to prevent what ASCAP want to prevent.
If a supremist-facist-type organisation linked to anything I'd done, I'd simply ask them to remove it. If that failed, I'd contact the ISP etc. Yes, I know there is no guarantee that this will work, but it's all we have.
I dunno, maybe we do need some sort of official, legally empowered body to "police" the WWW? Contentious issue I guess.
That said, when it comes back, it'll probably be running Windows3000 and have a disclaimer denying the existence of any product from any company not a subsidiary or affiliate of the Microsoft World Government.
>...just because someone were to click "Submit" > does not mean its legally binding...
I always thought that's _exactly_ what it means. And if not legally, then at least morally.
There's a saying "Lump it or Leave it". Unhappy Yahooers should take their "stuff" elsewhere (there's plenty of options) people who'll stay are those who understand that this is purely Yahoo making a sensible, informed decision to impose a lightweight "back-covering" agreement.
Come on - Yahoo were (and maybe are) pioneers, an excellent ambasador for the web.
Quit picking on them!
Btw, I have no affiliation with them, the only service I use is their search facility.
Slashdot Mirror
By the look of it, it was Win3.1 :)
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Mong.
* Paul Madley
I think the Slash.dot publicity has killed the poor guys server :)
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Mong.
* Paul Madley
Ahem, to put it more succinctly - It's an image thing.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Mong.
* Paul Madley
The article doesn't actually say "companies racing to support Linux" - does it? It does say that people in big (unnamed) companies are willing to trial it on a small "risk-free" project or trial.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
If (or more likely when) they realise that Linux is a viable replacement to their current, presumably NT systems, this is when they will "rush to support Linux".
I'm not putting a downer on thing, I think it's more a case of "Companies limber up at starting blocks".
But yeah, the news is good - but I'd like to see names and details of those involved. The following "from what I've heard, I'm willing to try it in a small project," said the manager, who asked that he and his firm not be identified. seems to imply that this (typical) manager envisages a loss of custom if his firm is seen to support something like Linux. Worrying huh?
Mong.
Oh yeah, "First Post - Hurrah", blahblah (idiots).
* Paul Madley
Erm, we are capabable of using Babelfish you know :)
:p
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Seriously, IMHO you should have attempted to improve the actual langauge in the Babelfish output.
I'm not being nasty or anything, just pointing out something kinda obvoious
Mong.
* Paul Madley
I agree, but they seem like they can do it right and if they take RHs "mistakes" as "lessons learned" then everything should be okay.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Good Luck to them!
Off the thread though: Yet again we're told to put a url through Babelfish. Well, I quote the very first line of the SuSE report "the SuSE getting thing AG, one the Linux Distributoren leading world-wide". Babelfish is neat, but I don't think it should be relied on in a manadtoraly (sic?) English speaking environment.
Just a thought...
MOng.
* Paul Madley
28 Hotdogs in 30 seconds? Impossible :
p _art_id=3935553&p_section_name=Lifestyle
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
http://customnews.cnn.com/cnews/pna.show_story?
The url will probably (almost defiantley) disappear in a day or so, but the gist is the recent of the recent World Hotdog Eating Championship (honest!) where the winner ate 21 Frankfurters in 12 minutes. Apparently, it was all down to "zen", to prove it he even ate some more!
Mong.
* Paul Madley
I obviously deny most vehemntly any accusations of ignorance. If asked to implement a whole new network, I'd instantly recommend a Linux backbone to deal with mail, web and files. Then I'd have NT4 on the desktop. Incidentally, I could actually do (some) of this myself - definatley the HTTP side anyway.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
I didn't simply install it and then "give up". It's still there. I use it about an hour or so a week, either for some GIMP effects not in Photoshop, or to test that my latest pages work under a Linux NS and even in Lynx.
I was really proud of myself when I configured a variety of things by editing some config files (mostly Apache related) and have relished in the raw power provided by the Linux CLI vs the DOS one.
There are _no_ web development tools which appeal to me on Linux. Enhanced EMACS? Yeah sure... gimme Dreamweaver, Fusion or even FP98 any day. It's not "sheer ignorance" - quite the reverse in fact. I think maybe it's other who are ignorant of the wide range of quality (if admittedly costly) software available for the Win platform. Maybe thats the point - you gets whats you pays for. Okay, the actual OS isn't half as efficent/stable/etc as Linux, but the available software is pretty f*cking neat in many cases.
I don't usually respond to a personal attack, but... You don't know me, you don't know of how many hours I spent configuring my system (or trying to), I posted loads of comments on a very Linux centric BBS. Many of the questions were answered (thank you!) - but the griping one about WindowMaker wasn't, apart from being told "read the docs". I did, the docs told me that I had to spend ages manually adding programs to the main menu - I don't know where many of these programs are on my HD (etc).
The point (there is one) is that Linux is not friendly to new, non-technical users. As far as my particular course goes, I'm one of the most "techie" on it - I only know about 3 or 4 people who actually understand anything about what Linux is (let alone use it). For Gods sake; some of my colleagues struggle to import a picture into Word, or use a "wizard" to make a webpage. You expect these people to recommend Linux/UNIX as a soloution? They don't even know what it is.
Hmm, I don't use Windows to protest against you - I use it becuase I need it. If all my favourite tools were ported to Linux (freely or otherwise), I'd jump straight across. Especially if the GUI had the intuitiveness that Win95/98/NT undeniably has.
Which brings me to another point. Much of the Linux commnunity wants everything free or GPL'd or whatever... people like Adobe or Macromedia are not about to release the latest versions of their software freely (do you know how much these cost?) use your common sense here! I think maybe you need to accept that times are changing - Linux is verging on breaking onto the mainstream desktop... don't let a commendable ideology stand in the way of common sense.
Mong. Apologising for ramblling on (and on).
* Paul Madley
Nice idea - you could use it to create and save what are in essence Macros. Quite sweet actually.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
It would have to become a really prominent part of the system to be worthwhile though, as many users would simply not use it.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
You know, you really have a point - a good one.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
However, I think people are too unwilling to change. Plus, as a technical soloution, there are more MS-Experienced IT "professionals" than Unix/Linux ones. So where's the support coming from.
I do however sense that the UK as a whole is far less aware of Linux/Unix than the RotW - so maybe this is why people seem a little perplexed by my standpoint.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
So, Linux supports some completely non-standard hardware better than Windows? I'm pretty certain that Win98 has special 3DNow! commands (in DirectX6?), this is probably the root of your problems.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
I overclocked my (ahem...) Cyrix 300 to 366 - works fine under both OS's.
I'm not trying to turn this into a Linux V Win debate (they're so boring now). I just wanted to contribute an "outsiders" insight.
*shrug
Mong.
* Paul Madley
> -Uh, Paul. If it's never bluescreened on you,why
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
> did you say you can't remember the last time it
> did. Kind of sounds like it did but you don't
> want to admit it.
No. I've recently started a job using NT4 all the time. It's never done anything nasty.
What I can't remember is the last time my Win95c box crashed.
I'll admit it has, MS products have a reputation for unreliability - but the most recent releases are better, not good, but better.
Mong. Long over due for a bluescreen!
* Paul Madley
I'm not "refusing to remain ignorant" (I know what you mean), I've tried RedHat, make heavy (if basic) use of a shell account and I grew up on Amiga etc...
;)
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
It's just that apart from the reliability issue, Linux appeals more as a curiosity, than as a genuine replacement to my Win32 systems.
MS annoys me, don't get me wrong - There Bloatwear is overpriced and overrated.
"it requires a bit of study".
Software, especially the OS, is a tool - a means to an end. Why should I study it before using it? Do you study the complex workings of your car engine before you drive it? Do you become an expert in Telecoms before switching on your TV? Nope! Hmm, maybe I should have read a sex manual tho...
Mong.
* Paul Madley
> sheesh. some people use NT for usability.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
> even political reasons.
> i do
Yep, I use it in work.
It does everything I ask, quickly (honest!) and it's never crashed, hung or bluescreened.
I can't remember my last bluescreen - seriously.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
This was exactly the sort of article I've been meaning to write for quite some time.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
As a user of a well know, linux-centric BBS ( FIX), I've become more and more aware of the benefits associated with running a Linux system.
I finally "bit the bullet" and installed RH5.2 - This was my first real experience of Linux other than a shell account (or 10!). I wouldn't say it was a disaster, but it wasn't a success. The installation required a phone call to a techie friend (about partitions) and my on-board sound wasn't supported, neither is the ancient SB16(clone). Oh, and even the cheapo S3DX wasn't quite setup properly.
But these weren't the problem. I instantly took to Window Maker over the other supplied Gooeys - but it wasn't configured, I needed to (and still do) configure the main menu, to display the programs that were installed upon installation. Very annoying, Win3.1 does it better! So, I switched to AfterStep, but find it a bit "fiddly" or "awkward". The documentation is not entirley comprehensive, or it's so poorly organised I can't find it. It's also aimed at experts, people who already understand most things - it's little use to me.
Anyway... after a while playing with GIMP, I realised there was nothing I really needed on my new Linux box. On my Win box, I have all the tools I need as a webdeveloper and IT Student (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Word, Apache, PHP etc) - basically, it does everything I ask of it, and it's pretty stable, despite what the general view of '95 is. Maybe this is because I use 95C (the final release), but it's fine for my needs.
I'm looking at the SUsE dist' as it looks more suited to me (and comes with KDE), but I'm considering waiting for the Corel release - it looks like it's going to be a whole lot more intuitive and generally "user-friendly" than anything currently on offer.
Bear in mind that I'm an IT student, so I'm fairly technically minded - with this in mind, how does the Linux community really hope to win over "John in Accounts" or "Sally in Admin"? If "Paul in IT" has problems...
I support a worthy cause, and Linux, OpenSource et al is just that... when are you gonna support me?
Mong.
* Paul Madley
> I really don't see how they have any right to
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
> say who can and cannot link to their site.
> imho by putting a site on the www you are
> granting people the right to link to it,
> whether you like it or not.
You are of course entilitled to your opinion - and thats what the WWW (atm) is about. It's a (vitually) unmoderated, legislated media, where what's right and wrong is a matter of opinion.
Possibly, copyright laws about use of a tradename/mark could be brought into play, but generally there is little than can be done to prevent what ASCAP want to prevent.
If a supremist-facist-type organisation linked to anything I'd done, I'd simply ask them to remove it. If that failed, I'd contact the ISP etc. Yes, I know there is no guarantee that this will work, but it's all we have.
I dunno, maybe we do need some sort of official, legally empowered body to "police" the WWW? Contentious issue I guess.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
Re: CNN sueing Slashdot.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Believe it or not, the actual patent, in the US for distributing a magazine electronically is owned by... Microsoft.
Seriously, details at IBM - not sure what the full addy is, but it's on there.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
Yeah, funny. ...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
* Paul Madley
I think it's really neat that Steve Adler has abandoned music to support the Open Source cause!
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Guess he's off the heroin now...
Mong
* Paul Madley
And without anyone to teach it to speak... urgh.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
That said, when it comes back, it'll probably be running Windows3000 and have a disclaimer denying the existence of any product from any company not a subsidiary or affiliate of the Microsoft World Government.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
Maybe when we next saw it, the box would have developed AI and would come back... angry.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Mong.
* Paul Madley
Or better, stick ole Bill on it ;)
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Mong
* Paul Madley
> ...just because someone were to click "Submit" > does not mean its legally binding...
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
I always thought that's _exactly_ what it means. And if not legally, then at least morally.
There's a saying "Lump it or Leave it". Unhappy Yahooers should take their "stuff" elsewhere (there's plenty of options) people who'll stay are those who understand that this is purely Yahoo making a sensible, informed decision to impose a lightweight "back-covering" agreement.
Come on - Yahoo were (and maybe are) pioneers, an excellent ambasador for the web.
Quit picking on them!
Btw, I have no affiliation with them, the only service I use is their search facility.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
I can't get it from Work or home, but then thats not suprising - is it?
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Duh.
* Paul Madley