In fact, had Sun not derailed and preempted the adoption of those other languages with promises of a bright Java future (on which they have failed to deliver), we might well be using some language now that is technically superior to both Java and C# and is covered by a truly open standard.
Besides, MS has little to no history of suing for patent infringement. Just because they're filing for patents, doesn't mean they're automaticly going after mono. In this day and age tech companies are using patents as a way to keep score. "See, we're making major technological breakthroughs. We recieved X thousand patents last year." This would be an example of good publicity.
This reminds of the steadily migrating arguments I hear from the anti-war crowd. First, "Saddam doesn't have WMD!" Then, "Well, he only has a few empty chemical shells." Then, "Well, he has large numbers of unaccounted-for WMD, but we know he won't use them because that would be irrational. He just needs them to avoid appearing weak in the eyes of his own people."
Where do the excuses stop? Mightn't it be that appeasement and cooperation with notorious bullies is just a bad idea, period? That the Mono project, having enslaved itself to Microsoft's whims, was doomed from the start?
Suing the Mono project when they're submitting.Net to the EMCA, etc. would be bad publicity. It would definitely make people reconsider developing for.Net.
"Okay, so Saddam has a whole shitload of WMD, but he'll never use them against us because it would make his supporters reconsider."
Suing the Mono project would indeed be bad publicity for Microsoft, but not enough to make "people" reconsider. Where have you been for the past five years? Microsoft been hit by LOADS of bad publicity (antitrust, security, OpenSourceIsCancer, security, SabotagingJava, security, MyServicesBigBrother, exploitative licensing changes, security), but I don't see a massive exodus of home users, corporate managers, or developers from their products..NET lockin would be met with the same complacency.
Sure, all 3000 Open Source-.NET developers would reconsider, but what about the 150000000 commercial MS.NET developers? The vast majority of them wouldn't even know what "Mono" is; if they found out, they wouldn't give a shit ("I just want to put bread on my table"). Certainly they wouldn't abandon the.NET platform because Microsoft reamed yet another competitor by less-than-honest means.
Sir, I think you and Miguel de Icaza are profoundly naive.
This:giant-room" is fucking huge - it's 10,000 sq feet huge. A small section of the room has a pit of sharp spikes with a warning sign above it - "Pit of Spikes Will Kill You!".
kien:
Interesting point. I guess it all depends on your definition of "stupid". Obviously, your level of intelligence suggests that illiterate people are stupid.
No, it's not obvious from his comment that zulux believes illiterate people are stupid. The "Pit of Spikes Will Kill You!" sign is just there for good measure; any reasonably intelligent child would avoid falling into the pit, sign or not.
It's funny -- most of the replies in this topic basically prove what the article said -- that IT people have poor people skills and can't understand that different people think and work in different ways. Most of the replies are people pissing and moaning that users are stupid.
This type of the jerk is the first to whine about programming jobs being exported to India. If the programmer sitting in a manager's office is barely easier to commincate with than the one in Bangalore, why the hell wouldn't the job be exported?
I guess IT people -- those of us who are so smart -- just aren't smart enough to "get it." We can figure out things that work with ones and zeroes, but we just aren't smart enough to figure out complex systems like human thinking.
Oh, well. More consulting opportunities for those of us who make a credible effort.
If a friggen PO-LICE officer can't look in the damn trunk when it's overflowing with cocaine, what makes you think some geeky-faced piece of shit Associate Engineer Fuckup Specialist from the BSA has any right to bring his ugly ass into your fucking business?
Dude, get a grip!
The cop's actions are backed up by the government, whereas the BSA geek's actions are backed up by Microsoft.
In light of the disparity between the authority of those two entities, isn't it totally obvious that the cop will be saying "Yes, sir" and "No, sir", whereas the BSA geek will open the exchange by ripping your pants off and bending you over the nearest table?
With NASA's recent problems, there has been a lot of talk about promoting more private investment in rocketry.
If you thought NASA had reliability problems, wait until a bunch of ex-dot-com starry-eyed MBAs and incompetent engineers hit the space scene. The stock market will be the least of our crashes.
The review is interesting but it's been a while since I've seen such a glaring example of bad spelling and grammar actually make it as a live article in a high-traffic website dedicated to technical stuff.
PS before I get anyone flaming me about GNOME, 5 years ago GNOME was slow and unstable. I went to KDE and have no other experience with GNOME, and I know nothing about GNOME. I am sure by now it is much different than it was back then and that it has many features, but I still use KDE exclusivly.
Let's imagine a corporate IT manager considering a large-scale Linux desktop deployment:
Before I get anyone flaming me about Linux desktops, 5 years ago Linux desktops were slow and unstable. I stayed with Windows and have no other experience with Linux desktops. I am sure by now it is much different than it was back then and that it has many features, but I still use Windows exclusivly.
And I might consider using Windows if everything worked without fuss. My wife spent four hours trying to install TurboTax recently. Two hours with an Intuit tech support person. Never got it to work even after downloading every win2k sp available.
In my experience, that's par for the course.
This is the lamest piece of mod-appeal Linux apologia I've ever seen. You're blaming an OPERATING SYSTEM because a shitty APPLICATION won't install on it. The fault lies with the application.
By your logic, Linux sucks because TurboTax won't install on it. Oh my fucking God, call a press conference!
Of course that's the whole BSD movement, 2 developers get their panties in a bunch and instead of either one of them being big enough to compromise they fork.
Oddly enough, it was a very similar event that led to the creation of the OpenBSD project. Theo started it after a (rather extended, IIRC) tiff with the rest of the NetBSD core team.
Shoot, if it weren't for self-righteous assholes we wouldn't have GNU.
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In fact, had Sun not derailed and preempted the adoption of those other languages with promises of a bright Java future (on which they have failed to deliver), we might well be using some language now that is technically superior to both Java and C# and is covered by a truly open standard.
We are.
Besides, MS has little to no history of suing for patent infringement. Just because they're filing for patents, doesn't mean they're automaticly going after mono. In this day and age tech companies are using patents as a way to keep score. "See, we're making major technological breakthroughs. We recieved X thousand patents last year." This would be an example of good publicity.
This reminds of the steadily migrating arguments I hear from the anti-war crowd. First, "Saddam doesn't have WMD!" Then, "Well, he only has a few empty chemical shells." Then, "Well, he has large numbers of unaccounted-for WMD, but we know he won't use them because that would be irrational. He just needs them to avoid appearing weak in the eyes of his own people."
Where do the excuses stop? Mightn't it be that appeasement and cooperation with notorious bullies is just a bad idea, period? That the Mono project, having enslaved itself to Microsoft's whims, was doomed from the start?
Suing the Mono project when they're submitting .Net to the EMCA, etc. would be bad publicity. It would definitely make people reconsider developing for .Net.
"Okay, so Saddam has a whole shitload of WMD, but he'll never use them against us because it would make his supporters reconsider."
Suing the Mono project would indeed be bad publicity for Microsoft, but not enough to make "people" reconsider. Where have you been for the past five years? Microsoft been hit by LOADS of bad publicity (antitrust, security, OpenSourceIsCancer, security, SabotagingJava, security, MyServicesBigBrother, exploitative licensing changes, security), but I don't see a massive exodus of home users, corporate managers, or developers from their products. .NET lockin would be met with the same complacency.
Sure, all 3000 Open Source-.NET developers would reconsider, but what about the 150000000 commercial MS .NET developers? The vast majority of them wouldn't even know what "Mono" is; if they found out, they wouldn't give a shit ("I just want to put bread on my table"). Certainly they wouldn't abandon the .NET platform because Microsoft reamed yet another competitor by less-than-honest means.
Sir, I think you and Miguel de Icaza are profoundly naive.
Remind me...which side has tens of billions of dollars in cash reserves?
Why, that Mexican programming outfit that names their products after monkeys, right? Of course right!
Exactly! Can you say "One Click Shopping"
I could, but I'd be violating a ServiceMark (SM).
Until microsoft puts their money where their mouth is, they just lost a huge chunk of credibility.
If those are the terms, they can regain their credibility at their whim.
This :giant-room" is fucking huge - it's 10,000 sq feet huge. A small section of the room has a pit of sharp spikes with a warning sign above it - "Pit of Spikes Will Kill You!".
kien:Interesting point. I guess it all depends on your definition of "stupid". Obviously, your level of intelligence suggests that illiterate people are stupid.
No, it's not obvious from his comment that zulux believes illiterate people are stupid. The "Pit of Spikes Will Kill You!" sign is just there for good measure; any reasonably intelligent child would avoid falling into the pit, sign or not.
If you've not seen it, think of it as VisualBasic on steroids.
I hope to God I don't see it anytime soon, then!
It's funny -- most of the replies in this topic basically prove what the article said -- that IT people have poor people skills and can't understand that different people think and work in different ways. Most of the replies are people pissing and moaning that users are stupid.
This type of the jerk is the first to whine about programming jobs being exported to India. If the programmer sitting in a manager's office is barely easier to commincate with than the one in Bangalore, why the hell wouldn't the job be exported?
I guess IT people -- those of us who are so smart -- just aren't smart enough to "get it." We can figure out things that work with ones and zeroes, but we just aren't smart enough to figure out complex systems like human thinking.
Oh, well. More consulting opportunities for those of us who make a credible effort.
If a friggen PO-LICE officer can't look in the damn trunk when it's overflowing with cocaine, what makes you think some geeky-faced piece of shit Associate Engineer Fuckup Specialist from the BSA has any right to bring his ugly ass into your fucking business?
Dude, get a grip!
The cop's actions are backed up by the government, whereas the BSA geek's actions are backed up by Microsoft.
In light of the disparity between the authority of those two entities, isn't it totally obvious that the cop will be saying "Yes, sir" and "No, sir", whereas the BSA geek will open the exchange by ripping your pants off and bending you over the nearest table?
With NASA's recent problems, there has been a lot of talk about promoting more private investment in rocketry.
If you thought NASA had reliability problems, wait until a bunch of ex-dot-com starry-eyed MBAs and incompetent engineers hit the space scene. The stock market will be the least of our crashes.
The review is interesting but it's been a while since I've seen such a glaring example of bad spelling and grammar actually make it as a live article in a high-traffic website dedicated to technical stuff.
Really? Maybe you should give this site a try.
The problem is that Windows applications are not running better and better on Windows. They crash the same as 5 years ago.
"Hi, my name is Todd and I haven't used any version of Windows since Windows 98, so obviously I'm qualified to pronounce the NT kernel unstable."
Flame on, dude. With attitudes as well informed as yours, the Linux community is sure to make progress on the desktop.
PS before I get anyone flaming me about GNOME, 5 years ago GNOME was slow and unstable. I went to KDE and have no other experience with GNOME, and I know nothing about GNOME. I am sure by now it is much different than it was back then and that it has many features, but I still use KDE exclusivly.
Let's imagine a corporate IT manager considering a large-scale Linux desktop deployment:
Before I get anyone flaming me about Linux desktops, 5 years ago Linux desktops were slow and unstable. I stayed with Windows and have no other experience with Linux desktops. I am sure by now it is much different than it was back then and that it has many features, but I still use Windows exclusivly.
And I might consider using Windows if everything worked without fuss. My wife spent four hours trying to install TurboTax recently. Two hours with an Intuit tech support person. Never got it to work even after downloading every win2k sp available.
In my experience, that's par for the course.
This is the lamest piece of mod-appeal Linux apologia I've ever seen. You're blaming an OPERATING SYSTEM because a shitty APPLICATION won't install on it. The fault lies with the application.
By your logic, Linux sucks because TurboTax won't install on it. Oh my fucking God, call a press conference!
Of course that's the whole BSD movement, 2 developers get their panties in a bunch and instead of either one of them being big enough to compromise they fork.
In Soviet Russia, the BSD Daemon forks you!
Oddly enough, it was a very similar event that led to the creation of the OpenBSD project. Theo started it after a (rather extended, IIRC) tiff with the rest of the NetBSD core team.
Shoot, if it weren't for self-righteous assholes we wouldn't have GNU.
Evidently you don't read Usenet much.