What other facts are you guys going to object to? Yaknow your BFF even wanted to bring back whaling, when there isn't even a domestic whaling industry to pander to?
Or the boy-fucking in Afghanistan as revealed in the Wikileaks cables. For authoritarians, the fainting couches get brought out for whistleblowers, but they don't care about children getting their assholes reamed by warlords on their tax dollar.
Still waiting on SensitiveAuthortarian to see why Manning's release is more upsetting than the fact that government contractors were engaged in child trafficking in Afghanistan - as revealed by Wikileaks. It's only SA's tax dollars that were hard at work, supporting boy fucking abroad...
Being in near-solitary confinement breaks people. Assange probably cracked under the pressure and just wants it to be over - 1 out of 4 people who have been cleared through DNA evidence were made to give a false confession, in a semi-related example.
From the New York Times article: âoeChelsea Manning is somebody who went through the military criminal justice process, was exposed to due process, was found guilty, was sentenced for her crimes, and she acknowledged wrongdoing,â
Reality: Chelsea Manning wasn't allowed to defend her actions under the Espionage Act, was tortured for over a year with solitary confinement, was constantly subjected to humiliation, was threatened with a longer sentence over trumped up BS, and should have been released after Obama committed Unlawful Command Influence and pronounced Manning guilty before the trial was over, while promoting the judge overseeing the hearing.
Snowden would expect to fare as well.
He also noted that while the documents Ms. Manning provided to WikiLeaks were âoedamaging to national security,â the ones Mr. Snowden disclosed were âoefar more serious and far more dangerous.â
The USA spies on the entire planet, including the personal communications of allied heads of state. That is unjustifiable.
So, the president isn't about to pardon someone who hasn't even been tried for his crimes.
I don't give a fuck if I'm voted down as a troll or not.
Typical depraved authoritarian groupthink. If you gave two shits about the lawwww, you would in fact demand that Manning and Snowden spend time in prison - behind every politician and official who were revealed to have broken the law by their leaks.
Take FISA just for starters. Up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine for each offense. You guys demanding that Obama be sentenced to a few million years in prison and be fined a quadrillion dollars for tapping every phone call in the US without a warrant?
And then, "Sensitive" "Male", what about the boy fucking in Afghanistan? It was Wikileaks that revealed the contractors were engaged in child rape trafficking. You'll be happy to know that Hillary's State Department cleared itself of any wrong doing in the trafficking. But now it's just "old news", like Obama's drone strikes and repeal of habeas corpus, and soldiers are told to STFU and forget they saw anything.
But you DGAF about any of that, because you're a mindless authoritarian goon.
Still, you might get a few years left where your prejudice may be voiced in polite company, as trans rights are 20-30 years behind gay rights in this country.
Would prefer a trial where he would be allowed to make his case.
Snowden would be tried under the Espionage Act, like other whistleblowers persecuted by Obama, which doesn't allow defendants to claim their actions were justified. It would be an open-and shut case for the prosecution, in a closed trial, and then Snowden would be hit with an effective lifetime sentence after all the charges for all the documents were piled up. Then he could look forward to torture (the solitary confinement Manning was subjected to is torture) and routine humiliation (threaten more prison time for subversive materials that came through the prison).
Obama is a hard core neoliberal neocon freakshow. This is the guy that bombed more countries than Bush, make the Patriot Act look like the Magna Carta by repealing Habeas Corpus with an NDAA, and started a war in Libya without Congressional authorization. Which his own VP said he would have supported Bush's impeachment if he had done the same thing with Iran.
For not being progressive, well, here you go.
You mean after he tortured Manning for a year with solitary confinement, and committed unlawful command influence by declaring Manning guilty before a conviction - and promoted the judge during the trial. But now, after seven years in prison, with consistent humiliation (and a little torture mixed in) is he not merciful?
The various posts in this thread focused on legality - starting with the post you responded to that I responded to that you then responded to to this post that I am currently writing. So, of course legality means something.
Not to people who want Manning to stay in prison and Snowden to join her there. If upholding the law was the important part for them, they'd spend a few centuries talking about all the officials who should be in prison before they would even get to Manning or Snowden. But back to what the GP said:
but there is absolutely no legal or moral basis for a pardon on the latter.
Revealing that your country is spying on even allied citizens and heads of state is moral. If all the crackpot accusations against Russia turned out to be true, and someone came to the USA with evidence that Putin hacked Diebold voting machines, he'd be hailed as a saint.
Your non-response to any of the points raised is hereby noted.
Mashing off-shoring and elimination of jobs together already shows you are not able to think clearly, because these are two different things.
That shows you're being willfully obtuse. Harping about automation leading to job losses is crying SQUIRREL to distract from the effects of corporate trade laws, which have work moving to low wage countries. To be done by low paid workers, not improved automation.
Everyone knew it. She couldn't be fired because unions.
Anti-union canard #30147. There is nothing about unions that prevents people being fired for cause. And do you honestly think that the teachers that came after Mrs-can't-do-arithmetic were happy to do twice as much work to catch those students up?
I believe that the reason there are so many anti-union today is because they have often failed to police themselves.
See above. If you joined a union, would you suddenly think "boy, I wish Stan over there would start slacking off, so I could do my job plus his" - probably not. Your problem isn't with unions, your problem is with poor administration.
Unions should *not* protect teachers who fail remarkably at their job.
They don't. Again: there is nothing about unions that prevents people from being fired for cause. What you have been propagandized to support is firing people without case.
Between complete shit teachers and unbelievably shitty teaching practices, is it any wonder people are looking for "something better"?
Better would involve higher taxes - you get what you pay for. It does not involve charter schools, where your can't-do-math teacher would be happily employed under an ineffective or chummy administrator.
Sure, their are and will be problems with charter schools but we're seeing giant problems with the corruption of the public schools today for which we don't see an immediate remedy and we can't put our kids in stasis while we fix this problem.
You might as well drink Drano for an ulcer. Makes as much sense as replacing public schools with charters. And you didn't answer the question - what happens when Billy Bob starts beating the shit out of your kid, but nothing happens because his dad is on the board of the charter?
Sounds like the automated red herring - if it were just robots and automation, then the story wouldn't be of factories closing and moving overseas to employ human workers. It would be of American factory workers getting laid off and being replaced with robots.
What we have tried so far will all not cut it in the future (and that includes the "worker's paradise" that socialism promised), and things are starting to get dicey at this time.
Yes, at some point we might have construction robots building our streets, laying pipes, etc. Until then, we can tax the rich and pay humans to build shit.
The lost jobs, these jobs that would urgently be needed to keep the old models working, will not come back and there will be no replacements.
And then people wonder why those in industrial don't vote the way they are supposed to.
Nothing says true believer more than someone who will ignore evidence and reason. Let me guess your bible says the world was created 9th January 2007.
I see the shell fell off the nut.
as you either have a principle, or you don't.
What principle? No one cares about principles. Courts throw out cases based on principle. What people care about is affect on them. What courts rule on is damages incurred.
I'll speak slowly and use small words. There are a variety of electronic platforms, most notably game consoles, where you may only run applications approved by the manufacturer. But the phrase 'walled garden' is only used by people that dislike Apple, because reasons.
Walled gardens are a problem when the primary purpose of the device is inhibited, such as using apps on a smartphone. No one gives a shit about walled gardens outside of smart phones.
You're having a hard time with this word, principle, aren't you. I suggest Googling its definition. The primary purpose of a game console is to....play games. Yet I cannot play games not approved by the manufacturer. I cannot load user-created mods not approved by the manufacturer.
Yes they are, because the end user can still do everything they want. Developers aren't locked out, in fact they make special concessions to small developers to help them in.
Now you're just being willfully obtuse. People are free to get their own apps or games on a Playstation or a Nintendo - if they go through Sony or Nintendo. Which is so totally unlike getting your own app on an iPhone, as long as you go through the App Store.
Appleu Akbar believer.
Enjoy your don't-hold-it-wrong exploding Samsung that cracks at the same pressure than an iPhone bends, Hateboi.
You make it sound like no democrats were unhappy with Duncan when in fact he was practically chased out of his job by democrats.
Was he threatened with impeachment? If not then he wasn't chased out of the job.
One thing is certain, that between the time Obama entered office and the time he will leave it, the democratic party as a whole became a lot more corporate-skeptical.
By giving Obama a free pass on bailing out corrupt criminal banks while at the same time allowing said banks to illegally foreclose on people's homes? This is the same party that freaked out over Bush's Patriot Act but couldn't be bothered to get out of bed when Obama repealed Habeas Corpus with an NDAA.
The topic at hand is H1-Bs, who do exactly that: live in America.
If you're saying they're no different than working Americans, that's just being obnoxious and willfully obtuse at the same time. H1B's are not laying down roots, they are not getting married and having kids, they are not buying homes, and they are not making consumer purchases aside from necessities or a Playstation they can ship to their family when they move back. They are saving as much money as they can and sending it back home.
You'd do the same thing if you were working overseas and knew you'd be going back home in 18 months.
If you ban H1-Bs, then we're competing with the same people who now have a very low cost of living indeed.
But without my own government working directly to lower my wages.
Ukraine & Honduras. Hillary even bragged in her own book about how she helped the 'orderly transfer' of the elected president of Honduras out of power, while recognizing the junta as the legitimate government. And it was her assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland that bragged on video about spending $5 billion to influence Ukraine - and then motherfucking Democrats whine about Russia trying to interfere with our elections. Same Nuland that had her phone call tapped where she talked shop with the US ambassador to Ukraine, where they were picking leaders for when the coup was completed.
Umm, H1B's live in the US, so their costs of living are comparable.
Umm, not when they're crammed ten to a two-bedroom apartment and send all their money back home. Which is the same thing you would do if you went overseas to take a temp job for 18 months. Umm.
Also, have you considered the benefit of the employees? They take these jobs, they obviously see it as an improvement on their condition, even with all the bullshit H1B's have to deal with. Do they not matter at all to you?
Non sequitur that in no way addresses your own government importing temp workers to compete for your job.
but that definitely was legal and approved by congress
You say that like it's supposed to mean something. Congress votes for illegal and amoral actions all the time.
even the spying on allies
Was that in the same statue allowing the intelligence community to spy on Congress while lying to Congress?
Nor was it secret that the NSA's mission included that in their scope
Now you're talking nonsense. Of course it was a secret that the US was spying on the allied heads of state and hoovering up every electronic communication from every person on the planet that it could get its hands on.
bullshit. Without trademarks, copyrights, and patents (and the threat of government backed force to enforce them) it would be very hard for companies to establish a monopoly.
You bullshit. Read up on the history of the East India Company, just for starters. Confusing cause and effect is typical Randian idiocy.
Whenever the government interferes with the free market's price discovery mechanism it is always a bad thing.
Except the only markets that are truly free - free for buyers and sellers to compete freely - is one that is heavily regulated to prevent monopolies and crony capitalism.
Slashdot Mirror
What other facts are you guys going to object to? Yaknow your BFF even wanted to bring back whaling, when there isn't even a domestic whaling industry to pander to?
Or the boy-fucking in Afghanistan as revealed in the Wikileaks cables. For authoritarians, the fainting couches get brought out for whistleblowers, but they don't care about children getting their assholes reamed by warlords on their tax dollar.
Still waiting on SensitiveAuthortarian to see why Manning's release is more upsetting than the fact that government contractors were engaged in child trafficking in Afghanistan - as revealed by Wikileaks. It's only SA's tax dollars that were hard at work, supporting boy fucking abroad...
Being in near-solitary confinement breaks people. Assange probably cracked under the pressure and just wants it to be over - 1 out of 4 people who have been cleared through DNA evidence were made to give a false confession, in a semi-related example.
Reality: Chelsea Manning wasn't allowed to defend her actions under the Espionage Act, was tortured for over a year with solitary confinement, was constantly subjected to humiliation, was threatened with a longer sentence over trumped up BS, and should have been released after Obama committed Unlawful Command Influence and pronounced Manning guilty before the trial was over, while promoting the judge overseeing the hearing.
Snowden would expect to fare as well.
The USA spies on the entire planet, including the personal communications of allied heads of state. That is unjustifiable.
coughNixoncough
Typical depraved authoritarian groupthink. If you gave two shits about the lawwww, you would in fact demand that Manning and Snowden spend time in prison - behind every politician and official who were revealed to have broken the law by their leaks.
Take FISA just for starters. Up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine for each offense. You guys demanding that Obama be sentenced to a few million years in prison and be fined a quadrillion dollars for tapping every phone call in the US without a warrant?
And then, "Sensitive" "Male", what about the boy fucking in Afghanistan? It was Wikileaks that revealed the contractors were engaged in child rape trafficking. You'll be happy to know that Hillary's State Department cleared itself of any wrong doing in the trafficking. But now it's just "old news", like Obama's drone strikes and repeal of habeas corpus, and soldiers are told to STFU and forget they saw anything.
But you DGAF about any of that, because you're a mindless authoritarian goon.
Still, you might get a few years left where your prejudice may be voiced in polite company, as trans rights are 20-30 years behind gay rights in this country.
Snowden would be tried under the Espionage Act, like other whistleblowers persecuted by Obama, which doesn't allow defendants to claim their actions were justified. It would be an open-and shut case for the prosecution, in a closed trial, and then Snowden would be hit with an effective lifetime sentence after all the charges for all the documents were piled up. Then he could look forward to torture (the solitary confinement Manning was subjected to is torture) and routine humiliation (threaten more prison time for subversive materials that came through the prison).
Why do people keep repeating this zombie talking point? I know y'all didn't flunk out of school before they covered Nixon in civics class.
Obama is a hard core neoliberal neocon freakshow. This is the guy that bombed more countries than Bush, make the Patriot Act look like the Magna Carta by repealing Habeas Corpus with an NDAA, and started a war in Libya without Congressional authorization. Which his own VP said he would have supported Bush's impeachment if he had done the same thing with Iran.
You mean after he tortured Manning for a year with solitary confinement, and committed unlawful command influence by declaring Manning guilty before a conviction - and promoted the judge during the trial. But now, after seven years in prison, with consistent humiliation (and a little torture mixed in) is he not merciful?
Not to people who want Manning to stay in prison and Snowden to join her there. If upholding the law was the important part for them, they'd spend a few centuries talking about all the officials who should be in prison before they would even get to Manning or Snowden. But back to what the GP said:
Revealing that your country is spying on even allied citizens and heads of state is moral. If all the crackpot accusations against Russia turned out to be true, and someone came to the USA with evidence that Putin hacked Diebold voting machines, he'd be hailed as a saint.
Your non-response to any of the points raised is hereby noted.
That shows you're being willfully obtuse. Harping about automation leading to job losses is crying SQUIRREL to distract from the effects of corporate trade laws, which have work moving to low wage countries. To be done by low paid workers, not improved automation.
Anti-union canard #30147. There is nothing about unions that prevents people being fired for cause. And do you honestly think that the teachers that came after Mrs-can't-do-arithmetic were happy to do twice as much work to catch those students up?
See above. If you joined a union, would you suddenly think "boy, I wish Stan over there would start slacking off, so I could do my job plus his" - probably not. Your problem isn't with unions, your problem is with poor administration.
They don't. Again: there is nothing about unions that prevents people from being fired for cause. What you have been propagandized to support is firing people without case.
Better would involve higher taxes - you get what you pay for. It does not involve charter schools, where your can't-do-math teacher would be happily employed under an ineffective or chummy administrator.
You might as well drink Drano for an ulcer. Makes as much sense as replacing public schools with charters. And you didn't answer the question - what happens when Billy Bob starts beating the shit out of your kid, but nothing happens because his dad is on the board of the charter?
China, with less than half the GDP than the USA, is kicking your ass in high speed rail right now.
Sounds like the automated red herring - if it were just robots and automation, then the story wouldn't be of factories closing and moving overseas to employ human workers. It would be of American factory workers getting laid off and being replaced with robots.
Yes, at some point we might have construction robots building our streets, laying pipes, etc. Until then, we can tax the rich and pay humans to build shit.
And then people wonder why those in industrial don't vote the way they are supposed to.
I see the shell fell off the nut.
I'll speak slowly and use small words. There are a variety of electronic platforms, most notably game consoles, where you may only run applications approved by the manufacturer. But the phrase 'walled garden' is only used by people that dislike Apple, because reasons.
You're having a hard time with this word, principle, aren't you. I suggest Googling its definition. The primary purpose of a game console is to....play games. Yet I cannot play games not approved by the manufacturer. I cannot load user-created mods not approved by the manufacturer.
Now you're just being willfully obtuse. People are free to get their own apps or games on a Playstation or a Nintendo - if they go through Sony or Nintendo. Which is so totally unlike getting your own app on an iPhone, as long as you go through the App Store.
Enjoy your don't-hold-it-wrong exploding Samsung that cracks at the same pressure than an iPhone bends, Hateboi.
Nor do you have to buy "just Apple parts". They use the same USB/SATA/SSD/RAM standards as the rest of the industry.
Was he threatened with impeachment? If not then he wasn't chased out of the job.
By giving Obama a free pass on bailing out corrupt criminal banks while at the same time allowing said banks to illegally foreclose on people's homes? This is the same party that freaked out over Bush's Patriot Act but couldn't be bothered to get out of bed when Obama repealed Habeas Corpus with an NDAA.
If you're saying they're no different than working Americans, that's just being obnoxious and willfully obtuse at the same time. H1B's are not laying down roots, they are not getting married and having kids, they are not buying homes, and they are not making consumer purchases aside from necessities or a Playstation they can ship to their family when they move back. They are saving as much money as they can and sending it back home.
You'd do the same thing if you were working overseas and knew you'd be going back home in 18 months.
But without my own government working directly to lower my wages.
Ukraine & Honduras. Hillary even bragged in her own book about how she helped the 'orderly transfer' of the elected president of Honduras out of power, while recognizing the junta as the legitimate government. And it was her assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland that bragged on video about spending $5 billion to influence Ukraine - and then motherfucking Democrats whine about Russia trying to interfere with our elections. Same Nuland that had her phone call tapped where she talked shop with the US ambassador to Ukraine, where they were picking leaders for when the coup was completed.
Any more questions?
Umm, not when they're crammed ten to a two-bedroom apartment and send all their money back home. Which is the same thing you would do if you went overseas to take a temp job for 18 months. Umm.
Non sequitur that in no way addresses your own government importing temp workers to compete for your job.
Who charged high tuition rates in fraudulent schemes to bilk students for their loans. Not sure what it has to do with supply & demand, though.
You say that like it's supposed to mean something. Congress votes for illegal and amoral actions all the time.
Was that in the same statue allowing the intelligence community to spy on Congress while lying to Congress?
Now you're talking nonsense. Of course it was a secret that the US was spying on the allied heads of state and hoovering up every electronic communication from every person on the planet that it could get its hands on.
You bullshit. Read up on the history of the East India Company, just for starters. Confusing cause and effect is typical Randian idiocy.
Except the only markets that are truly free - free for buyers and sellers to compete freely - is one that is heavily regulated to prevent monopolies and crony capitalism.