*I hear echoes* Further to this some of these ppl then come up with the brain wave of doing a practical masters, mainly because they has no interest in CS to begin with, cant get a job because of IT slump, and now want to waist tax payers money doing something they have LITTLE aptitude for, depriving someone else of a masters position who would have liked to do a practical years masters by research regardless of economic condidtions. Sorry, it just gets me that the drive for materialism by the greedy gets many people in the cross fire!!
Yeah, allot of people got better degrees than me almost by default. Im a real creator at the best of times, I like to do things my way, make it unique, distinctive somehow, but theres just no room for that - its all about who can do it the fastest - often by copying, and using no ingenuity of their own what so ever. Plus, many of the ppl I know with good degrees forget everything they know - they're just crammers, book worms that can learn stuff off ands regurgitate it. I wanted to do my own final year project based on my own ideas. THEY wanted to suck of to the most popular lecturers and use there SUPERIOR exam result history to get projects under them. Of course, the lecturer has come up with the project idea and helped them with a large portion so in effect - they are now getting credit for a project they have little to do with!! behaving as if a project is simply manual labour. It is not!!. And, by simply learnin stuff off - behaving like a hard disk, killing off any part of their brain (if they have it) which is used for creativity, postulating, hypothesising.... I went to college with a guy (who now has an honours degree under him) and simply could not program anything of his own. Everything was copied...
And knowing ANYTHING about how to use CVS means nothing. Come back to me when you create something useful like an alternative CVS yourself. Stop plagerising and moaning...
I agree with allot of what you say. There are allot of programmers out there doing rudimentary coding to do stuff like use a post metod to pop some data into a db etc. You really don't have to be very smart to this kind of stuff. However, I want to point out that coding is of course still a very important building block to CS. True, you cannot program without a language - and a language is very much based on mathematics just as it is based on symantics and conventions and invention. But, you cant vreate an OS without a programming language. Its really about a hierarchy. True CS heads will understand this: You use A to create B to create C, literally!!.
Those not in the know merly just program away with little idea that the compilers/debuggers etc. are very sophisticated engines analogous to that of a cars engine for example. I would say that the guys at Berkley who created UNIX are true Software Engineers. The unqualified coders, many of whom just dela with web design, and databases etc. are like the mechanics. They can service the car sure, but ask them to try and build one from scratch. I don't think so!!
I studied CS and there was a runnning joke that all the Arts stundents would end up inn McD's.
Actually, they all seem to go on to better things. I think it isimportant to expand your mind in college first. That way you confront the possibility of ending up in a place like McD's much early and you end up making an informed career choice. You are wrong to knock the arts. If you really believe philosophy is redundant then your just a carcass. Nothing scientific ever happens without someone somewhere sayinh. "Hmmm, what if.."
Yeah, I went to an Irish uni and the curriculum sounds similar.
we did all our programming on WinNT for some forsaken reason though.
But we did all have Solaris Unix accounts.
Intro programming involved things like: Write code to manage a video library - i.ie. rentals database - just a simple array or linked list would do... with a focus on GUI - in JAVA - now the popular 1st year programming language. Crappy I know, 1st year...
My main point is this:
_WHY_ don't they go through the fundamentals of an OS from day 1. Talk about the kernel.
Make the studenyts compile the kernel from the source and add packages etc - make it practical. Introduce them to debugging a linux kernel...
It should be engraved in their mind that an OS is not some magical bit of M$ eye candy, but millions of lines of code which all amzingly compiles together to create a working OS.
You cant teach THAT with frikin Windows NT, pff please
I'm Irish - live in Ireland, educated in Ireland...
Apparently our overall ed. system is quite good by world standards, but I really hope the US doesn't get rid of the one good thing about their highschool system - individual project work - which requires initiaitive.
Ok, Korea, Japan and Finland have the toughest education systems in the world, but this does not mean they are churning out well-rounded individuals. Have you met some of these people. They are machines! We are part of Europe, and there are often surveys about the various different member states. Suicide is highest in Finland. Student suicide is also very high in Japan and Korea. I don't believe you can teach someone to be creative or innivative. You have to do that yourself. It can be fostered by individual course/project work. You all seem to forget that these countries question themselves about they're ED. systems: Are we being to tough on children.
I think a big problem is we change things that were bad to something better, but in so doing (because of lack of foresight) we also end up changing some things that should not have been changed.
Hey Blackhawk, You're totally speaking my language. I got exposed to computers when I was young - Dad's job. I always rresisted doing the same thing as him, as I wanted to be original, and do my own thing. I started out studying general engineering, I had decided that the life of a cicil engineer was the life for me, but I hated the technical - all engineering college - no women atmosphere.
I also found I was compelled by computers, and wanted to use them whenever possible, but there wasn't very good computer facilities. I left to pursue a BSc. in CS and Software Engineering combined at a university with much better balance of men:women. I liked the course and the facilities but not allot of my fellow students. I was eager and geeky, wanting to learn, but finding allot of the others really hated it and just moaned all the time. It's such a pity that they were only thinking of money - thats really all many of'em cared about. If there was an announcement in the papers: ***People, there are lots of jobs in xyz, study it, make money***, there would undoubtedly be lots of people flocking to do so, evenif xyz was completely unfufilling! What really gets me is that I'm not in any way arrogant. I don't necessarily think I'm better than them, after all, they may be right, work is work! - is it supposed to be fun. Who knows, maybe they just knew something I didn't. Maybe work is just not meant to be enjoyed, and why not moan about that fact. But some of these people now have interesting jobs - that I would like and still they moan. They don't desserve it. My job is not very interesting but I KNOW that these guys would not care if they were doing my job or the interesting job. To them its all the same, money, but I do care..!!
I think what it really comes down to is the fact that I will always dream, no matter what. So many people want to accept the status quo that exists in the world, I just want to see can we shake things up a bit. Why can't we enjoy life more. I think you should be able to work hard but be fulfilled in the knowledge that you get something out of your work - to come home and not feel like another day has been flushed down the toilet..
Sorry for this long thread, I just want a revolution against capitalism, and an end to money, and materialism - then we'll see these people for what they are - unmotivated. They won't quest for cash if we are all equal. But I will always challenge myself with things that others might find a waist of time.
One last point, technology developed most under communist USSR, thats a fact. Physicists made the same cash as labouers, BUT THEY REALLY WANTED TO WORK AT THIS - because they enjoyed it. The right people were doing the right jobs for the right reasons.
Actually I am f***ing sick of hearing about SCO. Seems like a foolish move by M$ actually - they just make the whole thing seem even more farcical. Still though, I don't know much about the U.S except that money talks so who know, maybe the future IS bright for the lowly SCO, and their pack..
Yeah, it seems like a good bot. I think it's abilities might be better served somewhere else though.
If I named it fairy princess and recorded transcripts of conversations between me and my EX maybe I could convince her that it was in fact she who was the weak link in the social network!
A little basic intelligence prerequisite test before credit details. SSL+HTTPS on OpenBSD with Apache Jakarta with J2EE with the highest security options, followed by another test (just to be sure)
I can tell your intelligence by your signature.
This is possible and is regularly used by HDD manufacturers (if you bothered to read the article) ..The 120GB hard drive you purchased may have been physically identical to a 250GB hard drive, but simply it only passed qualification at 120GB.
Intel does the same thing with processors. A 3.0Ghz processor may be sold as 2.4Ghz, simply because it didn't pass qualification at 3.0Ghz but did at a lower clock speed.
all hard drives reserve a certain amount of free space to use for reallocation of bad sectors. These "spare sectors" are free space on your drive... completely unused until your hard drive starts finding problems on the physical media.
..And no matter how much goodwork they put into longhorn, they still have to accept that
It could always be faster.
..Because they lock the whole thing down (including non-security related elements) with heavy weight encryption, just so as
no one can get a hold of their precious
source code.
Slashdot Mirror
*I hear echoes*
Further to this some of these ppl then come up with the brain wave of doing a practical masters, mainly because they has no interest in CS to begin with, cant get a job because of IT slump, and now want to waist tax payers money doing something they have LITTLE aptitude for, depriving someone else of a masters position who would have liked to do a practical years masters by research regardless of economic condidtions.
Sorry, it just gets me that the drive for materialism by the greedy gets many people in the cross fire!!
MOST BEGRUDGINGLY,
BEGRUDGER
Yeah, allot of people got better degrees than me almost by default.
Im a real creator at the best of times, I like to do things my way, make it unique, distinctive somehow, but theres just no room for that - its all about who can do it the fastest - often by copying, and using no ingenuity of their own what so ever. Plus, many of the ppl I know with good degrees forget everything they know - they're just crammers, book worms that can learn stuff off ands regurgitate it. I wanted to do my own final year project based on my own ideas. THEY wanted to suck of to the most popular lecturers and use there SUPERIOR exam result history to get projects under them. Of course, the lecturer has come up with the project idea and helped them with a large portion so in effect - they are now getting credit for a project they have little to do with!! behaving as if a project is simply manual labour. It is not!!. And, by simply learnin stuff off - behaving like a hard disk, killing off any part of their brain (if they have it) which is used for creativity, postulating, hypothesising....
I went to college with a guy (who now has an honours degree under him) and simply could not program anything of his own. Everything was copied...
Yours, begrudgingly!
And knowing ANYTHING about how to use CVS means nothing. ..
Come back to me when you create something useful like an alternative CVS yourself.
Stop plagerising and moaning.
I agree with allot of what you say. There are allot of programmers out there doing rudimentary coding to do stuff like use a post metod to pop some data into a db etc. You really don't have to be very smart to this kind of stuff. However, I want to point out that coding is of course still a very important building block to CS. True, you cannot program without a language - and a language is very much based on mathematics just as it is based on symantics and conventions and invention. But, you cant vreate an OS without a programming language. Its really about a hierarchy. True CS heads will understand this: You use A to create B to create C, literally!!.
Those not in the know merly just program away with little idea that the compilers/debuggers etc. are very sophisticated engines analogous to that of a cars engine for example. I would say that the guys at Berkley who created UNIX are true Software Engineers. The unqualified coders, many of whom just dela with web design, and databases etc. are like the mechanics. They can service the car sure, but ask them to try and build one from scratch. I don't think so!!
I studied CS and there was a runnning joke that all the Arts stundents would end up inn McD's.
Actually, they all seem to go on to better things. I think it isimportant to expand your mind in college first. That way you confront the possibility of ending up in a place like McD's much early and you end up making an informed career choice. You are wrong to knock the arts.
If you really believe philosophy is redundant then your just a carcass. Nothing scientific ever happens without someone somewhere sayinh. "Hmmm, what if.."
Yeah, I went to an Irish uni and the curriculum sounds similar.
we did all our programming on WinNT for some forsaken reason though.
But we did all have Solaris Unix accounts.
Intro programming involved things like: Write code to manage a video library - i.ie. rentals database - just a simple array or linked list would do... with a focus on GUI - in JAVA - now the popular 1st year programming language. Crappy I know, 1st year...
My main point is this:
_WHY_ don't they go through the fundamentals of an OS from day 1. Talk about the kernel.
Make the studenyts compile the kernel from the source and add packages etc - make it practical.
Introduce them to debugging a linux kernel...
It should be engraved in their mind that an OS is not some magical bit of M$ eye candy, but millions of lines of code which all amzingly compiles together to create a working OS.
You cant teach THAT with frikin Windows NT, pff
please
I'm Irish - live in Ireland, educated in Ireland...
Apparently our overall ed. system is quite good by world standards, but I really hope the US doesn't get rid of the one good thing about their highschool system - individual project work - which requires initiaitive.
Ok, Korea, Japan and Finland have the toughest education systems in the world, but this does not mean they are churning out well-rounded individuals. Have you met some of these people.
They are machines! We are part of Europe, and there are often surveys about the various different member states. Suicide is highest in Finland. Student suicide is also very high in Japan and Korea. I don't believe you can teach someone to be creative or innivative. You have to do that yourself. It can be fostered by individual course/project work. You all seem to forget that these countries question themselves about they're ED. systems: Are we being to tough on children.
I think a big problem is we change things that were bad to something better, but in so doing (because of lack of foresight) we also end up changing some things that should not have been changed.
Vive le Socialism..
Hey Blackhawk,
You're totally speaking my language. I got exposed to computers when I was young - Dad's job.
I always rresisted doing the same thing as him, as I wanted to be original, and do my own thing.
I started out studying general engineering, I had decided that the life of a cicil engineer was the life for me, but I hated the technical - all engineering college - no women atmosphere.
I also found I was compelled by computers, and wanted to use them whenever possible, but there wasn't very good computer facilities. I left to pursue a BSc. in CS and Software Engineering combined at a university with much better balance of men:women. I liked the course and the facilities but not allot of my fellow students. I was eager and geeky, wanting to learn, but finding allot of the others really hated it and just moaned all the time. It's such a pity that they were only thinking of money - thats really all many of'em cared about. If there was an announcement in the papers: ***People, there are
lots of jobs in xyz, study it, make money***,
there would undoubtedly be lots of people flocking to do so, evenif xyz was completely unfufilling!
What really gets me is that I'm not in any way arrogant. I don't necessarily think I'm better than them, after all, they may be right, work is work! - is it supposed to be fun. Who knows,
maybe they just knew something I didn't. Maybe
work is just not meant to be enjoyed, and why not moan about that fact. But some of these people now have interesting jobs - that I would like and still they moan. They don't desserve it. My job is not very interesting but I KNOW that these guys would not care if they were doing my job or the interesting job. To them its all the same, money, but I do care..!!
I think what it really comes down to is the fact
that I will always dream, no matter what.
So many people want to accept the status quo that exists in the world, I just want to see can we shake things up a bit. Why can't we enjoy life more. I think you should be able to work hard but be fulfilled in the knowledge that you get something out of your work - to come home and not feel like another day has been flushed down the toilet..
Sorry for this long thread, I just want a revolution against capitalism, and an end to money, and materialism - then we'll see these people for what they are - unmotivated. They won't quest for cash if we are all equal. But I will always challenge myself with things that others might find a waist of time.
One last point, technology developed most under communist USSR, thats a fact. Physicists made the same cash as labouers, BUT THEY REALLY
WANTED TO WORK AT THIS - because they enjoyed it. The right people were doing the right jobs for the right reasons.
I feel now that .NET will be more dominant in the future with this course of action..
"Good mornin Dave"
"Good morning Opera-HAL, the password is phoenix,
Do you know the significance of that work Opera-HAL??"
If Unix = []
then this would have to be: [][][][][][][][][][]
Dammit,
So near and..yet so far!!
I presume, there are intersting gravity experiments that could be set up with it though.
Baystar, a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Actually I am f***ing sick of hearing about SCO.
Seems like a foolish move by M$ actually - they just make the whole thing seem even more farcical.
Still though, I don't know much about the U.S except that money talks so who know, maybe the future IS bright for the lowly SCO, and their pack..
Yeah, it seems like a good bot. I think it's abilities might be better served somewhere else though.
If I named it fairy princess and recorded transcripts of conversations between me and my EX
maybe I could convince her that it was in fact she who was the weak link in the social network!
Yes thats easily high enough for my brute force key hack
Hmmm.
RobotcopIII vs. the tin can from the wizard of ozz
My moneys on the tin can
GI Joe - SCO MAN - in stores.. ..now
It all stinks of W. Bush corruption in voting to give Republicans extra votes.
Somebody aught to get the Geneva convention on his ass once and for all,
I'm Irish,
Kerry'04
A little basic intelligence prerequisite test before credit details. SSL+HTTPS on OpenBSD with Apache Jakarta with J2EE with the highest security options, followed by another test (just to be sure)
Or possibly still even worse yet, the user sees the lock and thinks "hmm, the server is locked, I better try an unlocked one so I can get in".
THe nthey buy on an insecure scam server, content in their ignorance that they have successfully puchased their Bush'04 t-shirt!
I can tell your intelligence by your signature.
..The 120GB hard drive you purchased may have been physically identical to a 250GB hard drive, but simply it only passed qualification at 120GB.
This is possible and is regularly used by HDD manufacturers (if you bothered to read the article)
Intel does the same thing with processors. A 3.0Ghz processor may be sold as 2.4Ghz, simply because it didn't pass qualification at 3.0Ghz but did at a lower clock speed.
all hard drives reserve a certain amount of free space to use for reallocation of bad sectors. These "spare sectors" are free space on your drive... completely unused until your hard drive starts finding problems on the physical media.
Yeah, this is great. They'll find themselves in this database,..and in recor time!
..And no matter how much goodwork they put into longhorn, they still have to accept that
..Because they lock the whole thing down (including non-security related elements) with heavy weight encryption, just so as
It could always be faster.
no one can get a hold of their precious source code.
I think you'vew all managed to go off on a big tangent..again.
I work with games, and increaingly, we're seeing Macromedia flash being used in kids/ed. games.
I believe its a growing market,
so if joe bloggs is scared that by using Linux, his kids will miss out on education possibilities etc. he's mistaken.
If this works out the way it should, Linux could eventaually compete with M$ on the most difficult level - a serious alternative gaming environment...
Good news.
..asking for the code, poor b******.
If he's gonna start sieving through that he's gonna need Linus or someone to help him get a grasp of it.
Suicide may be on thew cards.