Overclocking Your Sega Genesis/MegaDrive

I already have a hard enough time... by tsunamifirestorm · 2004-03-10 16:51 · Score: 4, Funny

keeping up with Sonic ;)

Re:I already have a hard enough time... by ComradeX13 · 2004-03-10 16:53 · Score: 2, Funny

The question is, can you overclock Dr. Robotnik?
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by playbass · 2004-03-10 16:55 · Score: 2, Funny

Now its super sonic the hedgehog.

--
"The life of a repoman is always intense!" --Harry Dean Stanton
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by LostCluster · 2004-03-10 17:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

keeping up with Sonic ;)

That may be justification alone for why the systems were underclocked at the factory. The clock in many games is based not on an actual clock but the speed of the processor... speed things up and you speed everything in the game up, and that's not very playable.

Unless somebody's found a way to get this thing to run Linux and other non-cartrige programs, this isn't going to be very useful.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by kisrael · 2004-03-10 17:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

That may be justification alone for why the systems were underclocked at the factory. The clock in many games is based not on an actual clock but the speed of the processor... speed things up and you speed everything in the game up, and that's not very playable.

Err, you might be right about programmer's being relatively lazyish (/efficient) and relying on the processor speed for timing...but they could always easily slow down a game that was too fast, but not the opposite.

Actually...programers don't JUST use the processor speed, or else slowdown would never happen, there wouldn't be a "correct" pacing for a game, just a continuum...few objects -> fast game, some objects -> medium game, many objects -> slow game. Instead, a game has a 'desired' speed, and probably just burns cycles if it's done everything but it's not time to proceed. If there's too much happening, the gmae slows down, and no cycles are burned.

The underclocking was probably due to the tolerances of the manufacturing process at that point. At this lower clockrate, virtually every chip is usable, at this higher rate, more can't keep up.

--
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by tkw954 · 2004-03-10 17:27 · Score: 1

I already have a hard enough time keeping up with Sonic ;)
Well, if you can overclock it, I'd think it's obvious that you can underclock it, too.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Cornelius+the+Great · 2004-03-10 17:38 · Score: 5, Informative

"That may be justification alone for why the systems were underclocked at the factory. The clock in many games is based not on an actual clock but the speed of the processor... speed things up and you speed everything in the game up, and that's not very playable."

You're right. Even on newer consoles, like the Xbox, a 1.4 ghz cpu and 128 mb ram upgrade tends to have problems in certain games. Most console games, unlike their PC counterparts, run proportional to the CPU clock for actual game speed.

In a PC, overclocking the CPU will usually increase frame rate in newer games. Consoles, with their unified architecture, begin to run into compatibility problems when you make certain components run faster, or will usually speed up gameplay proportionally to the clock speed increase.

Yes, the above applies to the PC-like xbox too, but not to every game. From what I've been told, running Halo co-op splitscreen on that 1.4ghz xbox runs as smooth as silk.

--
Sigs are for losers
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Monkelectric · 2004-03-10 17:40 · Score: 3, Informative

i'd be surprised if even sega games were so poorly programmed that they depended on the hardware clock speed. Generally what one does is define a unit of time (actual time, clock ticks, cycles, etc -- doesn't matter as long as its uniform), then you define all the motion/game logic as functions of a time delta (time elapsed between the last frame and this current one), since the frame rate is never constant. This way, things happen at a constant rate regardless of frame rate.
That being said, ive never done any console programming, so who knows :)

--
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:48 · Score: 5, Informative

The center of your mindset should rest on the vertical blank - that's your 'unit of time', unless you're doing some splitscreen stuff (like the water effect in Sonic), then you utilize the horizontal IRQ (I also call it a line IRQ) to get there. No busywaiting necessary. Frame rate is mostly constant on the classic consoles, in the sense that it's mostly synched with the refresh rate.

--
FC Closer
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Kaboom13 · 2004-03-10 17:50 · Score: 3, Informative

All units of the same console execute the code at the same rate, so it is common practice to use the hardware speed or frame rate as your time reference. This may not be the ideal, but it's how things are done in the console world (and was common in PC games before computers got so fast it was highly unreliable).
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by LostCluster · 2004-03-10 17:50 · Score: 1

On a PC, there's usually a "system time" that can be accessed by a program to keep the in-game timing in line with real time, but most consoles have no system clock and therefore no need to keep track of time relative to real time, so they don't have any timer to count against.

Anybody know what the status of this on the current consoles? I guess the XBox might be close enough to a PC to keep a clock, but I don't see why any of the other consoles would go out of their way to do that.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Monkelectric · 2004-03-10 17:51 · Score: 1

Ahh see, Im a PC programmer and in the old days it was nearly impossible to sync vertical retrace :) Finally about the time everyone figured it out and got really good at it (Mode-X crap) windows took over and made the whole thing worthless anyways :)

--
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Spy+Hunter · 2004-03-10 17:54 · Score: 5, Informative

His site explains that the games don't, in fact, run faster. Most Genesis games must actually be based on a clock instead of the processor speed. The only effect of the overclocking is that slowdown is eliminated. Don't you remember in Sonic games how if you had more than 20 or so rings and you got hit, the Genesis would slow to a crawl as it drew all the rings bouncing around on the screen? In two-player mode slowdown was even more common. Well if you overclock your Genesis, that can apparently be fixed.

--
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Monkelectric · 2004-03-10 17:59 · Score: 1

You're confusing the concept of time with time...bear with me :) Consoles don't know the time of day. They simply need a high resolution TIMER so they know how much time has elapsed, console doesn't care if its 1904 or 2004, it just cares how much time has elapsed since it generated its last frame.
That being said, the XBOX, PS2, and GameCube will all allow you to set the system time in their OS.

--
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by AuMatar · 2004-03-10 18:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

If you're programming to a non-upgradable system (like a console), you frequently DO hard code things to hardware parameters. Thats why a lot of old DOS games are now unplayable- they assumed clock speeds were 33 MHz.

--
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Roydd+McWilson · 2004-03-10 18:56 · Score: 1

I doubt many games made when CPUs commonly ran at 33MHz had that design defect. That problem was witnessed way back when going from 4.77MHz PCs and XTs to 6MHz and up 286's.

--
THE NERD IS THE COMPUTER.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Quietust · 2004-03-10 18:56 · Score: 2, Informative

The clock in many games is based not on an actual clock but the speed of the processor... speed things up and you speed everything in the game up, and that's not very playable.
The CPU speed is usually NOT used for game timing in cases like this (well, in older NES games it was, but usually not for the faster systems). The main source of timing in video games is the video refresh which, on game consoles, is always 60Hz. Increasing the clock speed simply allows the game to get more work done during each frame so it doesn't have to slow the game down to catch up.

--
* Q
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by The+Vulture · 2004-03-10 19:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Almost every computer-like machine in existance has a clock in it. This clock isn't necessarily a clock like you'd use for viewing the current date/time, but is in some cases internal to the CPU.

What units this clock runs in varies from chip to chip, but most of the time, the OS that you're using provides you with a decent way of using it, in some sort of standard measure of time (vxWorks with the BSPs that I've used, for example, provides you with 60ths of a second, which is very convenient).

This is very important, since especially in cable modems, there are a lot of events that need to be synchronized, and the CPUs change in clock speed (i.e. MHz) on a regular basis.

In terms of consoles, timing things to the VSYNC is generally popular. In order to properly do double buffering, you need to swap the buffers during the point of time when the raster isn't being shown within the visible screen, or at least in the section you're drawing (otherwise, you'll get tearing).

That, and it's a fixed timing, either 50Hz (PAL) or 60Hz (NTSC). :)

-- Joe
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by chiller2 · 2004-03-10 19:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

Remembering back to my demo coding days (on various Acorn/ARM systems) the reason the game doesn't scream along at some insane rate when the machine is clocked higher is because the update of the framebuffer is synchronised with the v-sync of the display, which on TVs / non multisync monitors was either 50Hz or 60Hz depending on where in the world you bought your equipment.

If the machine is clocked higher, the only difference is that more code can execute between v-syncs, so the game appears not to slow down when more than a certain number of sprites are being thrown around, etc.

--
--- Commission free trading & free stock up to $500 - use http://share.robinhood.com/kelvinp6 :)
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 20:09 · Score: 0

Probably, imagine the vcore on that thing!
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by zeno_2 · 2004-03-10 20:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

I used to work the help desk at microsoft. (Ok, it was another company, I was never employed by microsoft, thank god.). Anyway, there was this problem when Links 2003 came out, with pretty much any Dell laptop. The problem was, the golfer would swing about 10x fast as normal. After infestigating the problem, we found out that these specific dell laptops would not keep track of windows uptime correctly. We would reboot the laptop, and bring up a program that showed windows uptime, and it would give us completely wrong times. As an example, we would reboot, and the dell laptop would show 48 days uptime. Now, as a "microsoft employee", we didn't have a lot do to, when it came to fixing that particular problem. (it only happened on dell laptops, and we could use windows to verify the uptime was not being recorded correctly. Links 2003 would use that uptime figure to calculate how fast the golfer should swing). In any caes, I was never able to get a straight answer from either Microsoft or Dell as to why the newer dell laptops would not keep the Windows uptime correctly. It was kinda one of those issues that was swept under the rug. So, I can atest to the games out there that use the system clock as a timer to find out how fast to play certain things (probably mainly with animation). This is probably something that is used quite often, especially in a situation (like the xbox)where every system is the same. Oh ya, and I hope the Xbox dies a miserable death.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 20:31 · Score: 0

The Dreamcast also keeps the real world time and date, Metropolis Street Racer uses it to set the cities to the appropriate time of day for their time zone :)
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by gl4ss · 2004-03-10 20:32 · Score: 1

well, quite many games have that effect for some parts of the game. which could be taken just as sloppy coding on their part, not taking it into possibility that the game might be run on a computer 30x faster.

for example of this check out wing commander 2 on a 400mhz+ computer, sometimes on cutscenes the characters move way too far on the screen(the text/speech is timed usually though pretty well, but the movements of the screen objects on the cutscenes isn't).

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by zonker · 2004-03-10 21:22 · Score: 0

i doubt this kind of thing can be accomplished on many other consoles, especially the really old ones, due to very specific timing issues.

with newer, more pc based systems, i imagine the chance of overclocking may be more possible, but still, timing issues are always going to be a problem...

--
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by jez9999 · 2004-03-10 21:35 · Score: 1

If you want a good illustration of how NES games relied on PAL/NTSC, grab a US rom and play it with PAL emulation on, or a european ROM with PAL emulation off.

--
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 22:42 · Score: 0

Maybe thats why you never will work for MS, you just dont give a shit about the products.
Youre not welcome here. What company was it, Im sure we can check headtrax for a list of all employees from that agency that we can also see who has the same attitude. Damn stupid part time helpers. Thats all you where, a part time santa's helper thats no hope of a real job.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by essreenim · 2004-03-10 22:53 · Score: 1

Yes thats easily high enough for my brute force key hack
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by peragrin · 2004-03-10 23:43 · Score: 1

well dell was trying to help MS with it's netcraft uptime charts, and some of the server chips got dropped in laptops, cause dell is cheap and they had extras In reality it is shitty programing, and the windows programers knew that windows needs to be rebooted every few days, and they could use that to calculate swing speed.

--
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Xian97 · 2004-03-11 01:01 · Score: 1

You are correct about the old PC games being tied to the hardware clock. I remember trying to run Frogger on a 386/25 (it was originally an XT game at 4.77mhz). If you are familiar with the game you know that the object is to get the frog across the road avoiding the traffic. On a 386 the traffic is doing close to Warp 10 and only the most suicidal of frogs would even think of venturing out into it.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by cemaco · 2004-03-11 01:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Isn't that why old P.Cs had turbo buttons?

Whenever I ran into an old DOS game that wast too fast on the newer machine I would just disable Turbo and it would run fine.

Turbo started disappearing on P.Cs around the time of the mid 486's. That would also coincide with Windows 95.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by AKnightCowboy · 2004-03-11 01:13 · Score: 1

On a 386 the traffic is doing close to Warp 10 and only the most suicidal of frogs would even think of venturing out into it.
Basically all the old shareware games I had were like that. Sopwith, Alleycat, etc. They all sped up when I tried them on my 386.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 01:26 · Score: 0

All I know about Bush is I had a job when Clinton was president.
If that's all you know, that's probably why you don't have a job now.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by John+Courtland · 2004-03-11 01:29 · Score: 1

Wow, angry much?

--
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by bhtooefr · 2004-03-11 01:42 · Score: 1

Try Sopwith 2. Perfect on ANY processor, and better gameplay than 1 to boot. Sopwith: The Authors Edition is even better, but not quite true to the original.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Eil · 2004-03-11 02:00 · Score: 2, Informative

You can often "overclock" emulators too. Many have a setting somewhere that say something like "instructions per scanline" or "percent of instructrions to execute". Just increase that number and you have an instantly faster (emulated) processor.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by hattig · 2004-03-11 02:26 · Score: 1

Back in those days most games were synchronised to the vertical blank, not to the processor clock. Hence why this overclock works so well - the lag described by the author would have been because the amount of processing done per frame was so much that it went over the vertical blank, and then waited for a vblank to synchronise. By speeding it up, you get a smoother game.

Now if a game was designed to do stuff every two frames, and this overclock made it do stuff every single frame, then it would run twice as fast!
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by ByteSlicer · 2004-03-11 03:04 · Score: 2, Informative

In windows, the uptime is derived from the Tick Count. The tick count is incremented by the kernel, based on a hardware timer source. This source is usually an Intel 8253 Programmable Interval Timer (or compatible device). Some implementations of this timer have been known to be buggy (actually the first one was meant to tick every 20ms instead of the now common 18.2ms). Probably in these Dell laptops, the timer got initialized with the wrong value somehow.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 03:04 · Score: 0

More than likely this problem was caused by a Via chipset on the mainboard. I have had this problem with via chipsets with other games.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Stonent1 · 2004-03-11 03:08 · Score: 1

The last time I opened up my Genesis, I noticed it had a 10Mhz 68000 CPU in it. That doesn't mean it was clocked at that speed, but it would make sense that they made the games run independently of the clock speed, on the off chance that they ever create a sucessor to their product that was backwards compatable but faster.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by NonSequor · 2004-03-11 03:26 · Score: 1

His contempt for humanity is what makes him an ideal Microsoft employee.

--
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 03:30 · Score: 0

my experience with custom hardware is that an rtc is always referenced when standard time calculations need to be made. They are usually accessed by either a clock or a bit stream for elapsed time. Is this not true with consoles. Surley they have RTC's.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Digital11 · 2004-03-11 03:41 · Score: 1

Sopwith 2 + Instructions... Get it while the Geocities bandwidth lasts... ;)

--
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 03:57 · Score: 0

All I know about Bush is I had a job when Clinton was president.

So you lost your job because of Bush? That happens when you work for the former president. All of Bush's employees will lose their job when he's out too. Suck it up Dude!
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 04:00 · Score: 0

Yeah! What an idiot!
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by bhtooefr · 2004-03-11 04:06 · Score: 1

Gahhh... my school blocks most free hosts...

Can anyone reply with them?
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by multipartmixed · 2004-03-11 04:06 · Score: 1

> splitscreen stuff [...], then you utilize the horizontal IRQ

It's funny, I knew you were a VIC or VIC-II hacker before I even read your sig.

--

Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 04:42 · Score: 0

my god, people just want to run linux on everything. i suppose my toaster is useless too... ;)
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by crgrace · 2004-03-11 04:54 · Score: 0, Offtopic

you should get a +1 funny just for your sig.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by sbeast702 · 2004-03-11 04:54 · Score: 0, Funny

Dammit... I always thought that slow down effect was just slow motion programmed into the game... thanks for spoling that for me! :(
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Xaymot · 2004-03-11 05:21 · Score: 1

Your signature is a CHUMBA WUMBA quote? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Kaldaien · 2004-03-11 05:24 · Score: 1

I don't imagine the console would rasterize only even scanlines in one main loop iteration, then do the odd in the next (because you don't want anything to move around inbetween both half-frames)... The Sega Genesis for example is only capable of 320x224, which leads me to believe they use scanline doubling and simply send the front buffer contents out in two passes. If that operation is blocking you're left with only 25 and 30 updates a second respectively, because it takes 2 scans to draw a full frame.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by The+Vulture · 2004-03-11 05:30 · Score: 1

You can see the same thing in the Commodore 64, or almost any system where the developers relied on the NTSC or PAL timings. I guarantee that demos that I wrote on the C64 (which were done in NTSC) don't run very well in PAL - all sorts of visual artifacts, because I timed them for NTSC (the Commodore 64 in particular had the same raster timing repeated every 8 pixels, if I recall correctly, though it has been a while).

Generally, if you're doing video related work, it's easier to rely on the timing of the video, since you're generally shooting for good screen graphics (no tears, smooth lines, etc.).

The most common way that I'm familiar of for the NTSC game developers to make a PAL port of the title is to get the PAL version of the game system and a TV capable of PAL. From there, you insert some checks in the game, fix it up, and boom, you have an NTSC/PAL version.

Of course, you also have to account for the happiness of the developers too, because once you're used to NTSC, looking at PAL is maddening (and presumably the other way around) until you're used to it. :)

-- Joe
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 05:34 · Score: 0

Yeah, I never finished one of my favorite games due to upgrading. Once I went to a 486 I couldn't catch the enemy's anymore.
BTW, anyone know where to get a copy of Cybercon3 and a DOS emulator?
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by slycer · 2004-03-11 05:37 · Score: 1

I remember the "Turbo" button on the 286 I had.
It was used (at least *we* used it) to slow down the machine so that we could still play some of the games for the 8088.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by gl4ss · 2004-03-11 05:38 · Score: 1

partly.

turbo was useful for cheating sometimes though.. like when going on a planet on star control 2. was much easier to dodge all that stuff at 8mhz..

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by The+Vulture · 2004-03-11 05:41 · Score: 1

That is quite possible, and quite probable. I was at Sega only for the Dreamcast, and even then, was not the graphics guru in the department.

Most of my graphics experience comes from 2D stuff on the Commodore 64, where I'm used to having a 320x200 visible (main screen), but under NTSC (on a C64), you actually get somewhere around 260-270 raster scanlines to play around with (I don't remember exactly how many, it was in the documentation somewhere). Of course, most of those scanlines were "off-screen" (I believe "on-screen ranged from something like 50-249), so the extra scanlines weren't really useful for drawing anything (not for me, but there were people who did turn the borders off and things like that).

Usually what I used those extra scanlines for was updating the screen so that my scrolling messages wouldn't tear. Rather than double buffer, it was quite easy (and it presented no visual artifacts) if you updated screen memory after it was drawn by the raster. So if I was doing a 16 scanline split screen (one color per scanline), but I didn't trigger the VIC-II raster interrupt for another 40 scanlines below that, if I had a routine that would fit into the time it took to draw those extra 48 scanlines, I'd call it.

Of course, this timing is crucial, since it was using interrupts, and your ISRs must be fast, or you bog the whole system down.

-- Joe
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by Mysticalfruit · 2004-03-11 05:45 · Score: 1

Well... I'm not sure about a gamecube, but the PS2 definitely has a "system time". Since you can go into the options menu and set.

If I pop in Racket & Clank, and go to my saved games, it'll give me the Date and Time of the last save...

--
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by k98sven · 2004-03-11 05:52 · Score: 1

i'd be surprised if even sega games were so poorly programmed that they depended on the hardware clock speed.

Being an old (Atari) 68000 coder myself, I'd like to say that it's not really poor code. As others have pointed out, if you're programming a console or machine with a fixed set of hardware, you can rely on stuff like that.

Given that the 68000 was not that fast (but good in its day), you really didn't want to spend valuable processor time waiting.
Instead, you could time your code (oh, and everyone used assembly language) and push the thing to the limit.

This is of course a major nuisance writing emulators, since everything has to be correctly timed and synced for some games to work. But I have the greatest respect for the people who wrote that stuff back in the day.
It's not entirely easy to write well-timed code.

Of course, given the perspective of modern PCs and high-level languages, it is sloppy and I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone to do that stuff on a PC. But that doesn't mean it was a bad decision back then.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by LocalH · 2004-03-11 06:14 · Score: 1

What, do people not know what a noninterlaced NTSC signal is?

The Genesis has three graphics modes.

Mode 1 is noninterlaced 60fps 320x224 (can also be x240 on PAL only). This is a true 60fps progressive signal, there are 60 discreet frames per second. There might still technically be odd and even fields but there's no half-line vertical displacement so they're effectively frames.

Mode 2 is interlaced 30fps 320x224, where the original 60fps signal is interlaced into an effective 30fps 320x448, but using the original tile format and only having 224 addressable scanlines during any one field. Using this as a reference, it should be possible to hack a game to always use this mode instead of the one above, thus allowing one to use the Genesis with professional video equipment without having to run it through a TBC first. I plan on using this technique, along with some other devices, to make what might be the highest quality video captures possible from a Genesis.

Mode 3 is interlaced 30fps 328x448. This is a true interlace mode, the Genesis uses 8x16 tiles and outputs a true 320x448.

Theoretically, one could do some software interlacing and make mode 2 act like mode 3, for things like pictures and demos. Alternate between two screens every frame, and interlace mode 2 should give you a full resolution image, although I haven't tested it. And since you'd have to keep track of which field is which, I don't see that this would be that useful for games.

--
FC Closer
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by forel · 2004-03-11 07:52 · Score: 1

Ah, Sonic. Dude is *awesome*.
But seriously, Sonic games are my favorite games of all time, the geek that I am. I even have a plush Sonic sitting on my dashboard.
A while ago, I came across an interesting problem with my Genesis - it only plays Sonic games. Seriously - I guess somehow swapping in and out of Sonic 2, 3, Sonic and Knuckles and what for years without playing other games has done something weird. I can't play Phantasy Star 3 anymore, nor Vectorman, Earthworm Jim... nothing. It sucks. Happened to my previous Genesis also (which I still have in a closet somewhere).
Still, the idea of overclocking my Genesis and getting Sonic 2 to run even faster... damn. Good thing I have two, eh?

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-- What I don't have in intelligence, I make up for in a lack thereof.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by InvaderSkooge · 2004-03-11 08:29 · Score: 1

I've always thought of that as more of a feature than a bu- slowdown.

--
Erik
YOU ARE SAYING IMPUDENCE TO ME! THAT IS IMPUDENCE!
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by zeno_2 · 2004-03-11 13:05 · Score: 1

Maybe thats why you never will work for MS, you just dont give a shit about the products.

Btw thanks for havin the balls to reply back as AC. This is probably a troll but im gonna respond anyway. My main problem at my old job was I cared too much about the customers I helped, and the products I supported. I wasn't one of the techs that gave up, heck, I had a few cases that almost went on for a year. The problem is Microsoft doesn't really care about its products. They dont fix something just because its broke, they only fix things when a certain amount of "trouble" has been raised about said problem. That would be either companies losing money because of that problem, or a massive amount of calls to support (im talking extremely massive, if its just a lot, and they dont want to fix it, id have to tell the customer its a known problem and theres nothing I could do about it). If you want to get mad at someone, you should get mad at the person at Microsoft that decided it would be better to move 400+ jobs to India instead of keeping them in the U.S.
Re:I already have a hard enough time... by zeno_2 · 2004-03-11 13:12 · Score: 1

Lol geez, you know after trying to get help from the real Microsoft mentors and such, and trying to get help from Dell, I have never had such a clear explination of why it happened. I think they just realized it isn't something that you can do a registry fix for or anything, so they gave up on it. Well thanks for the reply.

That does it... by SteveTheRed · 2004-03-10 16:52 · Score: 4, Funny

I'm going to overclock my Timex Sinclair!!!

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I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords

Re:That does it... by fpga_guy · 2004-03-10 17:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Or better still, build a Timex/Spectrum in an FPGA and clock it as fast as you like...
Re:That does it... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:59 · Score: 0

hey my first computer was a sinclair!
Re:That does it... by fuzzix · 2004-03-11 03:11 · Score: 1

I'm going to overclock my Timex Sinclair!!!

Or you could get a Sprinter
Re:That does it... by Savatte · 2004-03-11 03:25 · Score: 1

I'm going to overclock my fridge. I figure with a little more power, I can get it to freeze water!
Re:That does it... by MickMickMick · 2004-03-11 05:01 · Score: 1

I'm going to overclock my Timex wa... Uhh, never mind.
Re:That does it... by Cynikal · 2004-03-11 05:45 · Score: 1

ahhh how i remember my good old poke 65497,0
now i feel old :(

if you do not know what im talking about, you may not reply or mod this comment, thanks.. bye
Re:That does it... by Kazymyr · 2004-03-11 08:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

I know the parent is supposed to be funny - but I did have my Sinclair ZX Spectrum overclocked to 6 MHz (from the original 3.5). Some games would run, some not. The clock speed could be changed on-the-fly without any ill effects. Of course at 6 MHz the cassette load/save routines were totally off, so that for loading commercial programs I needed to switch it back to the original speed. But files saved at 6 MHz would load back perfectly fine at 6 MHz. Loading/saving was quicker, too (higher pitch of the carrier + shorter pulses equals more bits per second).

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I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem

This is about as interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 16:52 · Score: 5, Funny

... as the time I slapped a Type-R sticker on my Casio FX-1000 solar-powered calculator. Before I did that, it took 950 milliseconds to calculate 69! Afterward, it calculated 69! in 940 milliseconds flat.

Or, wait, maybe it was because the sun came out.

Re:This is about as interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:50 · Score: 0

Unlikely..do you know what 69! is? Its bigger than the buffer on your calc to start with...
Re:This is about as interesting by toddestan · 2004-03-10 18:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

The factorial function is about the most intensive thing you can do on a little scientific calculator. 69! is ~1.711E98, which is the largest most calculators can go, as 70! factorial has an exponent of over 100. Unless your calculator can handle 3 digit exponents, then you can compute 449!

Ahh... the memories... back in middle school we used to glitch our solar powered calculators by doing 69! then covering the solar cells, which sometimes resulted in some pretty weird stuff (we could make TI-30's go into some kind of octal mode, also the calculator could sometimes go into some kind of trippy looped animation on the display, or it could change layouts to another TI model, like the TI-30STAT).

To bring things kind of back on topic, I once overclocked my TI-85. And some of the games did break, though the good ASM programmers didn't rely on the CPU speed, as it would slow down as the batteries wore out, even if you didn't overclock.
Re:This is about as interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:39 · Score: 0

69! = 17112245242814129737573543427207344887665272148062 8511030304905066123383956194496253690059725733888
Re:This is about as interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:54 · Score: 0

oops.. time to upgrade 'calc', apparently, the correct value is:

69! = 17112245242814131137246833888127283909227054489352 0369393648040923257279754140647424000000000000000
Re:This is about as interesting by Buck2 · 2004-03-10 19:12 · Score: 1

yeah duh

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As my father lik@(munch munch)... ....
Re:This is about as interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 23:17 · Score: 0

What
Re:This is about as interesting by kabocox · 2004-03-11 02:50 · Score: 1

Do you know what the largest bang the windows cal. can handle? I just tried 20,000! about 1.8192063202303451348276417568665e+77337 and 30,000! about 2.7595372462193845993799421664255e+121287.

30,000! took a few seconds, maybe about 20-30 seconds to come out. I was surprised that it could handle numbers that large.
Re:This is about as interesting by Naffer · 2004-03-11 03:26 · Score: 1

At the time of this posting I'm figuring out 1,000,000!. Its taking quite a while even on my 3Ghz P4. Now I know why my Ti calculator used to choke when I asked it to do crazy math.
Re:This is about as interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-22 20:15 · Score: 0

30000! took about 6 seconds on my PII-450Mhz using acalc on Linux. Apparently those wily Linux hackers found (and set) the go-real-fast MSR for the PII.

And this is good? by djocyko · 2004-03-10 16:53 · Score: 2, Redundant

I wonder how many games out there assumed they were running on a 7.6MHz machine and now run too fast...

Re:And this is good? by ...+James+... · 2004-03-10 17:14 · Score: 5, Interesting

You'd think it would be most, but that doesn't appear to be the case:

I've written my own Nintendo Emulator. Just modified it to execute 5000 CPU instructions per scanline instead of the typical 114. Fired up Super Mario Brothers, Contra, and a few other games and they all appear to work fine.

I suspect (and I would've thought otherwise before this test) that many games are sychronized with the v blank interval or interrupts. I haven't tested sound, however, since I haven't written that part of the emulator yet.

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get nemulator
Re:And this is good? by LostCluster · 2004-03-10 17:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

The article seems to imply that Sonic 2 was the only game checked, and that it was fine in normal play but glitched in the 3D half-pipe bonus levels...
Re:And this is good? by ...+James+... · 2004-03-10 17:22 · Score: 1

oh yeah, and I know that NES != Genesis, but for the purposes of this discussion, it's probably safe to assume that similar techniques would've been used when developing for either platform.

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get nemulator
Re:And this is good? by Pr0xY · 2004-03-10 17:29 · Score: 3, Informative

I've also mad a NES emualtor before, and there is a reason the games arent running any faster.

firstly, many of the games wait for an event (such as the vblank to occur), or sit in an infinite loop waiting for an NMI to process the next frames work.

Firstly, as you probably know, NES games tend to be very timming critical. Switch to a game that does any cycle counting to determine with things should happen (just about anything made by RaRE should do) and it'll be all fscked up :)

And as for the speed itself, you aren't executing the instructions any faster, just waiting till more work is done before showing rendering the scanline. This is not the same as the effect of overclocking would have on a real thing. The real with would still execute 113.66667 (or whatever the cycle count it) CPU cycles per scanline...just faster.

proxy
Re:And this is good? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:00 · Score: 1, Insightful

this is because of the way the game works

the game does something (AI, moving stuff, updating screen) and then waits for VSYNC since that's the only time it can update video memory.

so in other words your game is synched to a 60 hz clock. even if it finishes the work 1000 ties faster the CPU still waits for a 60Hz signal from the video chip.
Re:And this is good? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:11 · Score: 0

when you get into cycle-based interrupts you might have a bit of trouble.
Re:And this is good? by pidge-nz · 2004-03-10 18:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

Virtually every video consoles' game timing is tied to the screen refresh i.e. the game carries out the operations required to move sprites, update the background, update the sound being played etc, based the "vertical" refresh rate. There's no point in trying to update any faster, as that's a waste of time, since the changes will not be seen at best, or you get some "tearing" at worst.
Of course, if you insist on programming in BASIC, instead of assembler like a real programmer (ducks), you deserve to have you game made unplayable :D
<RAMBLE>
However, some games which rely on the CPU timing of the console to be a certain number of clock cycles per scan line may get messed up, if that timing is used do things like display a sprite in multiple places on a single scanline. Those of you who have seen/programmed C64 demos with the entire screen in use (no borders) will know about that - that required careful synchronisation with the scanline to fool the Video chip into not turning the border on at the end of the scanline - or simply moving the sprites "down" the scan field so that they are redisplayed. This allowed the 8 sprites the Video chip provided to be used over and over again, so long as the code didn't try to no display more than 8 sprites on a single scan line - extras would go missing - one thing that the game "Commando" violated - it didn't have a very good sprite management system to prevent this occuring. But that never caused it to crash thankfully.
</RAMBLE>
Re:And this is good? by qoa · 2004-03-10 18:54 · Score: 1

There is a video on the website showing Ecco the Dolphin.

--
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Re:And this is good? by ill_mango · 2004-03-11 05:14 · Score: 1

Hey this isn't really a reply to your comment, but I was wondering if you have any good resources on how to make an NES emulator.

I'd like to make one for my next personal project, any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Re:And this is good? by SmittyTheBold · 2004-03-11 18:26 · Score: 1

This makes perfect sense to me - it's fairly well-documented that PAL SNES games run slower than their NTSC counterparts, due to the 50/60 fps difference.

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± 29 dB
Re:And this is good? by ...+James+... · 2004-03-16 11:04 · Score: 1

Reply to this with an email address -- or some way of getting in touch with you -- and I'll set you up with documentation, notes, source code, whatever you want.

James

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get nemulator
Re:And this is good? by ill_mango · 2004-03-16 15:10 · Score: 1

mango17@hotmail.com thanks, any help is much appreciated

Hmmm.. by LordK3nn3th · 2004-03-10 16:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

If you can overclock it so much with a noticeable performance, then why didn't Sega set it like that already, if it's so stable? Certainly it would have given them an edge...

Pushing a 7.6 --> 16MHz is over 100% more than the original! I have yet to see most people get anywhere near that on normal processors.

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Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.

Re:Hmmm.. by Bull999999 · 2004-03-10 16:56 · Score: 1

Not if they are unclocked to begin with. Those processors ran at 16MHz on Macs without any problems.

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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Re:Hmmm.. by jaxdahl · 2004-03-10 16:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

Reliability.

You don't want to have to replace thousands of pricey (back then) consoles if chips prematurely fail.
Re:Hmmm.. by LordK3nn3th · 2004-03-10 17:00 · Score: 1

That's the point. The article apparently claims that it remained stable at over an additional 100%. Now, not all processors are alike, but if one of those can handle up to that, shouldn't others be able to handle a fairly good amount of overclocking as well?

--

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Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.
Re:Hmmm.. by BW_Nuprin · 2004-03-10 17:01 · Score: 5, Interesting

Its possible that later production Gennys had better processors that were clocked down to maintain the same speed as the older models. In the five or so years that Genny was around, I'd expect that there were many many improvements to the 68000. I'd wager that the last couple Gennys off the line could be overclocked three or four times over without a sweat.
Re:Hmmm.. by Arker · 2004-03-10 17:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's the point. The article apparently claims that it remained stable at over an additional 100%. Now, not all processors are alike, but if one of those can handle up to that, shouldn't others be able to handle a fairly good amount of overclocking as well?

Well you've got to remember that these things were made for several years. Just a guess, but I'm thinking by the time the last ones they sold were made, Motorola probably had long since quit making 7.6mghz chips, and were just shipping whatever their bottom of the line was at the moment and underclocking it.

Also, you have to remember even if that's not the case, there's a lot of variability in chips. Just because this guy got his to run at this speed reliably, doesn't mean they all would.

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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Re:Hmmm.. by LordK3nn3th · 2004-03-10 17:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, it's very possible they were underclocked for compatibility reasons. But I doubt they would've gotten a freak chip that could handle so much... I'm sure if that one could get so high, others could get high too (maybe not as high, but still high).

--

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Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.
Re:Hmmm.. by LostCluster · 2004-03-10 17:15 · Score: 1

Because games were depending on the clock speed to be equal on all of the consoles, for any clocks within the game or other time-based things. What likely happened was during the life of the console, the original chip got discontinued so later units just underclocked the successor chip to be close enough.
Re:Hmmm.. by calica · 2004-03-10 17:15 · Score: 1

Very true. I overclocked the 68000 in my Amiga 500. Reliability was a major problem. Ended up using an ice cube in a ziplock. Not very sustainable but fun (hey I was 12). I'm sure the later Genesis had underclocked CPUs. At the time 68030 and 040s where current in PCs.
Re:Hmmm.. by Orcish_Rodent · 2004-03-10 17:16 · Score: 1

First it wasn't the first generation units he is working with see this from his instructions:
It should read 'MC68000', 'MC68HC000', 'HD68HC000', et cetera. If it reads 'SCN68000', the system can most likely not be overclocked.
And Because it wasn't fully stable at higher speeds. See his results page:
7.6 MHz - 100% Stable. Stock speed.
12.0 MHz - 100% Stable, 80% of lag removed.
13.4 MHz - Must be switched into after boot in most cases. 98% of lag removed. Minor music/sound issues, Sonic 2 Special Stage shows severe graphical glitches. Otherwise fine.
14.7 MHz - Must be switched into after boot. No lag. No glitches except Sonic 2 Special Stage.
16.0 MHz - Must be switched into after boot. No lag. No glitches except Sonic 2 Special Stage.
Re:Hmmm.. by IntergalacticWalrus · 2004-03-10 17:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

"The article apparently claims that it remained stable at over an additional 100%"

Yes, but for how long? Sega wanted their machines to run a few years tops. Overclocking your Genesis CPU and still having it running after a week barely proves that Sega has underpowered it.
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:19 · Score: 0

When I popped open my original Genesis (bought in the days of the Altered Beast package), I seem to remember the chip being rated as a -11(?) or -14. It was also someone else's fabbing of the 68000, though memory is hazy.

So it's been entirely possible that Sega designed around Motorola parts and reference materials, then found a second-source supplier who gave them a better deal in bulk on chips that exceeded their specifications.

Plus, from this site, looks like they designed around the 7.6MHz rate for other things (bus to the Z80 for music-generation, and so on).
Re:Hmmm.. by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 17:20 · Score: 1

The SCN68000 was a 'budget clone' used in very early Revision 1, Model 1 MegaDrive/Genesis machines. I've not had it put up with anything. At 13.4 MHz it becomes convinced I am trying to run a US game on an EU system, then locks up. When I'm not. ;D
Re:Hmmm.. by Bodrius · 2004-03-10 17:59 · Score: 1

Side note;

Closest thing I've seen in normal procs are the old-fashioned Durons. They approached that mark.

I had mine, a 600 Mhz proc, running at 900 Mhz with no problems for a few years with a cheap heatsink/fan.

Clocked it down to 850 Mhz after I moved and it started failing (probably ventilation issues). Still survived until I got a free Thunderbird to replace it with.

Still, 3 years at 150% is a pretty good run for a normal proc, and it probably still runs.

The point is that high-overclock potential is not that surprising. On a console, where increasing the speed of the proc beyond original spec is a bug and not a feature, it is far more likely that the procs are not put to work to their full potential.

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Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
Re:Hmmm.. by cbreaker · 2004-03-10 18:13 · Score: 1

I'm sure Sega ordered 7.6Mhz chips, and got chips guarenteed to run at 7.6Mhz. If they are overclockable, that's great but if 1,000 of them are bad, Motorola won't do much to help you out. In fact, they'd probably sue you.

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- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Re:Hmmm.. by zapp · 2004-03-10 18:17 · Score: 1

Ah.. the old ratio comparison.

Did you know that if you have a 1MHz CPU and you OC it to 2MHz that you've *DOUBLED* its speed? While this is true, you've really only added 1MHz to it.

The reason you don't see 100% speed gains in new CPUs (say, 1.5GHz average), is because you'd have to add 1.5GHz to it.

The analogy in nature? Ants can carry 50 times their weight, but we can't. It's because 50x their weight is a lot less than 50x ours.

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no comment
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:53 · Score: 0

I replaced the 7.8MHz 68k in my Atari ST with a 16MHz one (ran at double clock - 14.6MHz) - and those were dirt-cheap fairly soon after, so it may be that they simply stopped making the slower speeds and just marked half of them as 8 and half as 16 or whatever. So it's not crazy that you could overclock them and have it work fine.

However, the overclocking isn't all that useful. Because the memory system isn't going any faster, and the 68k is almost always lockstep with memory (i.e. instruction cycle count = number of memory accesses * 4), and there's no cache, 99% of instructions go no faster because it's waiting for the memory all the time. There's some obscure mov instructions that go 4 cycles faster, but the main speed change is muls, shifts and divs - those do actually go twice as fast. But this obviously gets you nowhere near a 2x total speed boost.

I doubt you could also overclock the memory, even if the memory went that fast, because that would almost certainly break the video circuitry and a whole bunch of other stuff. Certainly would have driven the ST nuts.

The guy that changed his emulator speed and said "yeah, it makes stuff significantly faster" - that's not a true reflection, because the effective memory speed has also been upped in that case.

Even the slight speed increase for my ST would break a ton of games, so I'm slightly sceptical that this actually works on the real hardware - it all depends how the software is written of course. It was cool for raytracers and stuff though. This is also why Sega didn't overclock the later ones - would have broken earlier games.
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:59 · Score: 0

Your argument is rediculous! Ever hear of Moore's Law?
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 19:20 · Score: 0

The 68k in the Atari ST ran at 8mhz. You may be thinking of the early Macs, which used a 68k clocked at 7.83mhz. Incidentally, this is also why it was possible to run Mac software (via an emulator) faster than the Macs of the day ...

You're right that you don't get double the speed for double the clock -- however, the increase in speed was VERY noticable.

Increasing the clock broke very few games in my experience. But, that shouldn't matter, as any self respecting geek back in the day would have installed a toggle switch on the back of their computer to revert the clock back to 8mhz...
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 19:45 · Score: 0

> Gennys

Genny? Ugh. You prick. Please die.
Re:Hmmm.. by gl4ss · 2004-03-10 21:05 · Score: 1

if you read the site this indeed seems to be the case, as there's several cpu's you can't do this with.

neat trick anyways.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 01:18 · Score: 0

> That's the point. The article apparently claims that it remained stable at over
> an additional 100%.

The article can claim what it likes. 68000 CPUs are designed to work at 8mhz. That's the end of it.
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 01:21 · Score: 0

> The 68k in the Atari ST ran at 8mhz. You may be thinking of the early Macs

No, he's thinking of the Amiga, which ran at the speed he quoted.

He'd have been better off selling his ST and getting an Amiga, which had the same CPU but also a lot of hardware to help speed up graphics, produce sound etc.

There's precious little point in speeding up CPUs for games, as they are designed specifically for the hardware they run on. It's of much more use for applications.
Re:Hmmm.. by Kazymyr · 2004-03-11 02:30 · Score: 1

The Celerons 300A went even higher. I've had mine running at 504 MHz (4.5x112) for almost six years now, and it still works. That's a 504/300=168% overclock.

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I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
Re:Hmmm.. by ArsonSmith · 2004-03-11 03:15 · Score: 2, Funny

The analogy in nature? Ants can carry 50 times their weight, but we can't.

I could easily care 50x an ants weight. you weakling.

--
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
Re:Hmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 04:35 · Score: 0

Your spelling is atrocious! Ever hear of a dictionary?
Re:Hmmm.. by AgBullet · 2004-03-11 04:38 · Score: 1

Pushing a 7.6 --> 16MHz is over 100% more than the original! I have yet to see most people get anywhere near that on normal processors.

If I'm not mistaken, the MC68k is rated for CLK speeds up to 16MHz. the 7.6MHz chip wasn't "overclocked", in the strictest sense...

rather, a 16MHz chip was underclocked.

Now what about other consoles? by SDMX · 2004-03-10 16:53 · Score: 3, Funny

Someone needs to recreate this with a NeoGeo. Metal Slug needs to be played free of all that ridiculous slowdown. =]

Re:Now what about other consoles? by Talez · 2004-03-10 16:58 · Score: 3, Informative

NeoRageX lets you overclock the 68K in the .ini file. Set it to 24MHz and no more Metal Slug slowdown! :D
Re:Now what about other consoles? by Technetium+Web · 2004-03-10 19:53 · Score: 1

Geeze... I thought i was the biggest bad-ass when i o/ced my PalmIII from 11mhz->20! lol... ahh the days!

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www.TECHNETIUM.net.au
Re:Now what about other consoles? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 22:08 · Score: 0

Yes, but someone needs to recreate this with a NeoGeo. ...not with an emulator.

hrm by Vacuous · 2004-03-10 16:54 · Score: 1, Interesting

This probably applies more to the NES then anything but... I never understood why developers would release games that had obvious slow down problems in the first place. I mean if they did any kind of testing they should have noticed them. Another thing I don't under stand is why didn't emulator authors ever consider upping the speed or the emulated processor to fix these type of things? I am not much of a programmer but could anyone maybe explain this to me.

Re:hrm by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 16:57 · Score: 2, Informative

well, if you're trying to run an old DOS game you can do that with DOSBox, which comes in handy a lot of the time.
Re:hrm by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:57 · Score: 0

I don't think testing was a big concern back then. Certainly no one ever playtested them, considering how many NES games required some sort of superhuman/idiot savant to beat them.
Re:hrm by fleacircus · 2004-03-10 19:40 · Score: 1

If you've ever played a shooter like VIewpoint, the slowdown happens when there are suddenly tons of bullets on the screen all of which you have to dodge. The slowdown here is actually exciting and necessary. In a good classic game, slowdown is part of the gameplay, not just a result of having too many eye-candy polygons around.. The Matrix movies and games that follow them demonstrate that sometimes slowdown is actually what you want, even if you don't need it!
Re:hrm by digital+bath · 2004-03-10 20:02 · Score: 1

Another thing I don't under stand is why didn't emulator authors ever consider upping the speed or the emulated processor to fix these type of things?

The point of an emulator is to emulate the behavior of a device, not improve on it. An emulator that mimics a device all the way to having the same clockrate can be very useful for game development.

Most emulators have an option to run at an unrestricted or increased speed, however.

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find / -name "*.sig" | xargs rm
Re:hrm by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 06:31 · Score: 0

The point of an emulator is to emulate the behavior of a device, not improve on it. An emulator that mimics a device all the way to having the same clockrate can be very useful for game development.

While the point about the same clockrate being useful for game development is defenatly a good one; I believe the point of an emulator should also be to make an improvement on the emulated device, especially with console gaming emulators. A few that have made noticeable improves to the consoles they emulate is ZSNES, Virtualboyadvance, and pretty much any PS1 or N64 emulator. I mean is it really such a bad idea to add an option to emulate processor OCing to fix issues in some games (Mega Man 2's serious slow downs come to mind).
Re:hrm by LocalH · 2004-03-11 06:45 · Score: 1

Enhancements should always be options. There should ALWAYS be an 'original' setting that emulates the original system as closely as possible, bugs and all.

If people tried to 'enhance' the C64 and get rid of the badlines (since they can be a pain in the ass sometimes), then ALL demos would break, since they rely heavily on the way badlines work. So yeah, enhancement is good to a point, but it should always be optional.

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FC Closer

Check results first? by BW_Nuprin · 2004-03-10 16:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

I don't recall exactly, but I think you could 'overclock' the genesis in older emulators like Genecyst, so perhaps that would be a good way to check to see how well games run overclocked before you actually futz with your real Genny. I would think that many games would have timing problems at a speed greater than stock, particularly those that use raster effects. I can't say for certain, but I know my old Gameboy Color raster effects would break completely if I overclocked them. I would wager that racing games would probably suffer the worst.

Re:Check results first? by LocalH · 2004-03-10 18:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

Depends on if you have a hardware line IRQ or not. Hardware IRQs are always friendly to overclocking, while busywaiting never is.

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FC Closer

Kinda seems pointless... by Moocowsia · 2004-03-10 16:54 · Score: 1, Funny

Afterall TVs dont do much more than 30Hz and most games were made to run at about 30 FPS without the overclock. Essentially any improvements won't be noticible.

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Moo!

Correct me if I'm wrong... by kundor · 2004-03-10 16:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

But since games that can't run well on a console platform simply aren't published for that platform, isn't this somewhat useless?

Granted, it's nice for the coolness factor, but unlike PCs, newer and flashier games only come out for beefier platforms and can't be run on the old ones anyway, no matter how fast they're going.

Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by euxneks · 2004-03-10 17:03 · Score: 1

Sonic the hedgehog 2 had some moderate to major slowdown in some areas - I remember dying several times because of lag in a sonic game.

God that sounds like my latest experiences with online FPSs: "LAG!!!! I totally hit you head on with the redeemer!"

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in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · 2004-03-10 17:03 · Score: 4, Interesting

But since games that can't run well on a console platform simply aren't published for that platform, isn't this somewhat useless?
There isn't enough correction in the world. A lot of games get released for consoles with noticable periodic slowdown - the classic example is the Metal Slug series. Still happening today too, I notice the occasional wad of dropped frames playing my XBox or Gamecube.

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One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by Synonymous+Yellowbel · 2004-03-10 17:04 · Score: 1

You're wrong ;) Haven't you ever played a console game where certain (usually fairly uncommon) bits slow down the frame rate? It happens a fair bit in crazy games like Metal Slug, where there are often heaps of sprites jumping around the screen. steve
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by JayBlalock · 2004-03-10 18:06 · Score: 1

Two words: Star Control
Go play the Genny StarCon sometime. It was rushed into production with no code optimization, and runs far slower than the PC version. If I play it in an emulator, I have to tell it to run at about twice speed to get the same performance.
I'd love to try the cart on an actual OCed Genny like this guy has.

--
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:22 · Score: 0

Fire up GTA III in the Xbox, enter the tank code and start shooting, you'll get slow down real fast...
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by qoa · 2004-03-10 18:58 · Score: 2, Funny

I liked to think of the slowdown on Metal Slug for Saturn as adding to the excitement. Kind of like an action movie.

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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by slim · 2004-03-11 03:06 · Score: 1

A lot of games get released for consoles with noticable periodic slowdown - the classic example is the Metal Slug series.

Also, in Crazy Taxi, try hitting the ramp into the lightly wooded park area, just as you leave the beach-side road. The frame rate always drops dramatically, both on Dreamcast and on the coin-op. It always seems odd, since the rest of the game is silky smooth.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong... by bogie · 2004-03-11 03:44 · Score: 1

Its not just that one specific area. There are several parts in Crazy Taxi on Dreamcast that suffer from slowdown. It didn't ruin the game but was noticable.

--
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch

Boy do I remember the slowdowns by General+Sherman · 2004-03-10 16:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

Whenever I would play Road Rash 2 in split screen mode, the Genesis was noticeably slower. I was always disappointed with this, shame I don't have it anymore.

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- Sherman

Re:Boy do I remember the slowdowns by nic+barajas · 2004-03-10 19:15 · Score: 1

Yeah, that is hellish. I remember (and still see, as I have the system and game) moving hard to the left/right and knocking the opposing player all the way into the side at the very beginning of the race. It skips a bunch of frames, and the opposer just ends up on the edge of the screen. Way lame, but funny.

Ecco On Cartridge Upgrade by PRES_00 · 2004-03-10 16:55 · Score: 1

I remember reading somewhere that the Ecco game catridge had special electronic components to get the game to reasonable speed. Would you be able to overclock that part in there too?

Re:Ecco On Cartridge Upgrade by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:24 · Score: 1

... I've not heard THAT. It DID lag, but ran great on the Sega CD, which had a 68000 at 12 MHz the game took advantage of.

Wow by Talez · 2004-03-10 16:55 · Score: 1

I'm suprised games didn't start running twice as fast. Most developers back then would have still been counting clocks.

What's the purpose? by superpulpsicle · 2004-03-10 16:56 · Score: 1

As cool as overclocking genesis may seem, this is a decade late.

Now... if you can overclock today's PC to twice the ghz with no special hardware... then you're talking.

Re:What's the purpose? by HFShadow · 2004-03-10 17:13 · Score: 1

My 2.4c is running at 3.3 perfectly stable without extra hardware. Not double the speed, but respectable none the less :)
Re:What's the purpose? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:50 · Score: 0

The purpose is that it is cool. Hackers recognize this instinctively. That's all that matters. There are homebrew hackers writing Atari VCS/2600 games here, and no one who follows the forums is saying it's too late. The fun is in the problem solving.

sega genesis by Coneasfast · 2004-03-10 16:56 · Score: 5, Informative

for those of you who don't know, 'genesis' is the north american term whilst 'mega drive' is the UK (and european?) term

here are the specs and some history

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Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.

Re:sega genesis by IntergalacticWalrus · 2004-03-10 17:14 · Score: 5, Informative

In fact "Mega Drive" is the original japanese name too. That stupid "Genesis" name was in north america only.
Re:sega genesis by black+mariah · 2004-03-10 18:25 · Score: 1

Like Mega Drive is some brilliant marketing move itself.

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'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
Re:sega genesis by zoeblade · 2004-03-10 19:20 · Score: 1

for those of you who don't know, 'genesis' is the north american term whilst 'mega drive' is the UK (and european?) term

Mega Drive was also the original Japanese name, but they had to change it in the US due to someone already having a copyright on that name.
Re:sega genesis by vistic · 2004-03-10 19:35 · Score: 1

Who wouldn't know this?
Re:sega genesis by Coneasfast · 2004-03-10 19:58 · Score: 1

from that link i posted, the reason why is:

Sega of America could not use this name as it was already trademarked by another company. They went with "Genesis" instead, meaning "in the beginning", as Sega was leading the way in the beginning of the next-generation consoles.

--
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
Re:sega genesis by lucas+teh+geek · 2004-03-10 22:19 · Score: 0

didnt north america get the master system? its not really "in the beginning" if they did

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TIAEAE!
Re:sega genesis by squaretorus · 2004-03-10 22:28 · Score: 1

I always thought MegaDrive was a pretty damn cool name for a console. Its not trying to be touchy feely like Genesis - and its got a cool 'japanese made up word' feel to it.

Who wouldn't buy a console with 'Mega' in the name!
Re:sega genesis by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 23:22 · Score: 0

Like Mega Drive is some brilliant marketing move itself.

Hey, it was a well wicked name, back in the late '80s. I'm guessing you weren't around to appreciate it.
Re:sega genesis by rsmith-mac · 2004-03-11 02:32 · Score: 1

Yes, we got the Master System(twice in fact, once as the ill-fated console, and again as the ill-fated Game Gear), but that's not the point; the Genesis was the genesis of 16bit consoles, to which it was the first.
Re:sega genesis by black+mariah · 2004-03-11 11:58 · Score: 1

Yes, I was around to appreciate how much less stupid a name Genesis was. ;) I was a hardcore Sega fanboy back then. Hell, I still am. I still hug my Dreamcast every day, and hope beyond hope that Sega will pull a rabbit out of their ass and bring us the DREAMCAST 2!

Yeah, it probably won't happen but... I can dream. *sniff*

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'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.

Videos.. 26 meg? by E1ven · 2004-03-10 16:57 · Score: 4, Informative

The site, including the videos, are convieniently mirrored to sq7.org

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Colin Davis

Re:Videos.. 26 meg? by E1ven · 2004-03-10 16:59 · Score: 1

Of course, that's just the video page.. The rest is still there, just a directory up, at http://www.sq7.org/tmp/host/epicgaming/hardware/md _oc/

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Colin Davis

16mhz is fast! by Snagle · 2004-03-10 16:57 · Score: 5, Funny

16mhz is what the Palm Zire runs at too. That means if someone ports Palm OS 4.1 and you attach a VGA/LCD thingy you can have a Sega brand PDA. True, you are sacrificing portability, but hey, I think there are some kids at my school with pockets big enough for a Genesis.

Re:16mhz is fast! by bubkus_jones · 2004-03-10 17:11 · Score: 1

what about Sega's portable system, uhhhhhhhhh....game gear? Of course, how would you work it, without the touchscreen?
Re:16mhz is fast! by Neon+Spiral+Injector · 2004-03-10 17:58 · Score: 1

How about the portible Genesis? The Nomad.
Re:16mhz is fast! by Duty · 2004-03-10 19:28 · Score: 1

The Game Gear was based on the older Master System, not a Genesis. I don't know what processor it used offhand (Z80 I think?), but it was a pretty damn slow one. Outlook not so good.

Next up.... by tktk · 2004-03-10 16:58 · Score: 0, Offtopic

I'll be overclocking my analog clock. It'll be stable since the hands will do a full sweep in 1 minute without them disintegrating and flying apart.

FPS? by red_dragon · 2004-03-10 17:00 · Score: 3, Funny

So now kids will start bragging about how many frames per second they get on Flashback, eh? That's just what we needed right there.

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In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"

Re:FPS? by LostCluster · 2004-03-10 17:18 · Score: 1

Last I checked, it's hard to find a TV willing to go more than 30 FPS...
Re:FPS? by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:37 · Score: 1

My TV does 60fps quite nice with my Genesis, thank you.

And yes, standard NTSC.

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FC Closer
Re:FPS? by richie2000 · 2004-03-10 17:38 · Score: 3, Funny

What, you haven't overclocked your TV?

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Money for nothing, pix for free
Re:FPS? by LostCluster · 2004-03-10 17:46 · Score: 1

Well, with standard NTSC being interlaced, it's really 60 half-frames per second...
Re:FPS? by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:56 · Score: 1

Yeah, but since 99% of pre-Dreamcast systems primarily used noninterlaced mode, it really is 60 frames per second. If you want to get technical, you can call them fields, but still there's 60 discreet frames per second in the context of the Genesis.

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FC Closer
Re:FPS? by minusthink · 2004-03-10 19:19 · Score: 0

What the FUCK are you guys talking about?!

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"when life gets complicated, I like to take a nap in a tree and wait for dinner" - Hobbes.
Re:FPS? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 03:34 · Score: 0

I think the official name for the sound a TV makes when you do something like that is "zort".

anyone want to place a bet.... by npistentis · 2004-03-10 17:00 · Score: 3, Funny

as to how high his cute little hit counter registers before his server reaches critical mass? maybe he should've turbocharged that machine first...

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Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

They knew it all along by Space+Coyote · 2004-03-10 17:01 · Score: 2, Funny

It's obvious that this could be done, after all the Genesis has Blast Processing

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Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.

Poor Server by General+Sherman · 2004-03-10 17:04 · Score: 4, Funny

It's a shame he didn't overclock his server to twice it's original speed. Those 10-25MB .avi's really don't help.

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- Sherman

Re:Poor Server by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:57 · Score: 0

His server is doing fine, Im getting about 900mbit now

Most of them... by LucidityZero · 2004-03-10 17:08 · Score: 2, Informative

Most (if not all) of them, I'd assume.

When you're developing a game for a specific platform that will never change, why would developers use any sort of time-based algorithm to determine game speed? You'd end up with a smoother/prettier game if you merely used the limits of the hardware to control the speed of your game.

Especially back in those days where most of the games really DID push the limits of the hardware. Almost any game would slow down with too many sprites on the screen, etc.

I'd assume almost any Genesis game would play very, very quickly on an overclocked system.

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Sig.i>

Re:Most of them... by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:33 · Score: 3, Informative

If the game just updates the screen whenever the hell it feels like it, busywaiting until it's time, then yeah, it'll fuck up. But any properly coded game will utilize the VINT to synch to the refresh rate. Sonic 2 does this for sure, you can even see the garbage in the bottom border where the game is initializing the VDP for the next frame.

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FC Closer
Re:Most of them... by Kris_J · 2004-03-10 17:41 · Score: 1

Most of them are timed based on the video signal. Depending on how well they were coded, they may will run at normal speed, just with fewer dropped frames when the sprites pile up.
Re:Most of them... by PhotoBoy · 2004-03-10 20:25 · Score: 1

This is interesting and surprising, I expected older games to be less likely to rely on Vblanks for timing, but in fact it seems those old games were very well written.

Conversely I recently read a review of an Xbox which had been "upgraded" with a 1400Mhz CPU which showed that lots of games stopped working properly because they relied on the exact timing of the CPU! The review is here if anyone's interested.
Re:Most of them... by MarkCollette · 2004-03-10 20:42 · Score: 1

Uhh, no matter what, you have to sync to the vertical interrupt, since otherwise, if you're updating the video bitmap while the frame is being drawn to the screen, you'll have "tears" showing. That is, instead of seeing discrete snapshots of motion, you will see a portion of the screen showing one moment of motion and the rest showing another moment of motion. Ie: it will look like shit.

Puahing the hardware just means counting your CPU cycles so you do the most work between vertical interrupts. For example, one could count loop iterations between two VINTs, and programmatically decide that more work could be done per frame, on a faster system.

This reminds me of the time.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:08 · Score: 0

I overclocked my calculator, which also happens to use a motorola 68K, turns out that it ran just fine with a definite improvement in speed, and no noticable errors. And it made playing video games in class so much nicer;)

Re:This reminds me of the time.... by xangsta · 2004-03-10 17:35 · Score: 1, Informative

also drains them batteries pretty fast too heh

Re:dupe! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:13 · Score: 0

especially since you linked to the same article... very, very smart - I salute your intelligence!

WHY OVERCLOCK by isolenz · 2004-03-10 17:13 · Score: 1, Funny

the genesis / mega drive ALREADY has blast processing, why the hell would you want / need anything faster!
Stupid people, marketing is where it's at.

PS, Cowboyneal RULES!!!!!!!!!!
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isolenz

An easier way... by wardomon · 2004-03-10 17:14 · Score: 4, Funny

Plug it into the 220 outlet behind the stove. It'll run really fast for a couple of seconds and then you can get on with your life.

--

- - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?

Re:An easier way... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:41 · Score: 0

Ofcourse you plug it into 220V.. how else is it supposed to work?
Re:An easier way... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:51 · Score: 0

My Mega Drive runs perfectly on 220v, thank you very much :)

Stupid Americans with your lousy 110 volts :)

How does it work with other genesis attachments? by Recovery1 · 2004-03-10 17:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

Now here's an interesting thought. What would happen if you hooked one of these overclocked Genesis into the Sega CD or 32X attachments? As I recall the whole process of getting the Genesis and Sega CD to work together in parallel was a challenge to begin with because of different clock speeds between the two CPUs in each device.

My guess is he hasn't tried it or it doesn't work, as he doesn't elaborate on it.

- Overclocking DOES NOT cause games to speed up! - by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 17:18 · Score: 3, Informative

Just no slowdown! :)

Sega slowdown... by Anubis333 · 2004-03-10 17:18 · Score: 5, Informative

Slowdown is an integral part of older consoles. Modern day emulators that can easily push these consoles with no slowdown at 60FPS impliment a technique to fake "slowdown." It's a lot easier to just grab a genesis emulator for your Dreamcast or Xbox than attempt a hardware mod like this.

Re:Sega slowdown... by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:35 · Score: 3, Funny

WTF? You're trying to say that the NES' horrible OAM cycling is INTENTIONAL and is a valued part of the experience? You're on crack.

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FC Closer
Re:Sega slowdown... by Neon+Spiral+Injector · 2004-03-10 17:53 · Score: 1

I'm thinking of R-Type for the SMS. When you got a screen full of sprites you were happy for the slowdown.
Re:Sega slowdown... by Anubis333 · 2004-03-10 17:54 · Score: 1

Yep, that's what I'm saying. These horrible slowdown problems were integral parts of the gameplay experience. The games were released to be played in such states, and though it was annoying, I wouldn't want it any other way. It's the "games in the wild" the way they were meant to be played.
Re:Sega slowdown... by LocalH · 2004-03-10 18:09 · Score: 1

Not me. I always hated it when Zelda slowed down for no good (to a kid, anyway) reason. And there's no way it's an 'integral part' of my gameplay experience, I just find it annoying.

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FC Closer
Re:Sega slowdown... by black+mariah · 2004-03-10 18:29 · Score: 1

Like R-Type needs to be any slower. It's so bloody slow already I can't play it. If you're into shooters, check out DoDonPachi. Now THAT is where you want the slowdown. ;)

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'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
Re:Sega slowdown... by Anubis333 · 2004-03-10 20:56 · Score: 1

That's just it, it was there when you were a kid. It was an integral part. Anything otherwise is like Lucas remaking old movies because technology gets better; it's kinda lame.
Re:Sega slowdown... by yRabbit · 2004-03-11 01:01 · Score: 1

He seems to be saying that the emulators intentionally add the slowdown. Some (Nintendo) emulators let you play without it.
Re:Sega slowdown... by LocalH · 2004-03-11 05:47 · Score: 1

Well, there's two schools of thought here. There's the people who think that accuracy is the ultimate goal and that enhancement should be optional, if at all. I tend to feel this way, I want my emulator to behave as identical to the original as possible. And it's not that the emulators intentionally add the slowdown per se, but rather that the chips are emulated exactly enough that the behavior mimics what really happens - slowdown and OAM cycling. Then there's other people who think emulators should go above and beyond what the original machine can do, in terms of performance. That's all fine an dandy as an option, but I always want my 100% (or 99%, or whatever) accurate emulator. Hardcore homebrew development requires accuracy. C64 demos, at the scale they're at right now, could not be coded with the help of an emulator like C64, that isn't cycle-exact.

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FC Closer
Re:Sega slowdown... by LocalH · 2004-03-11 05:52 · Score: 1

I define 'integral part' as something that was intentional, for the most part.

It's like saying, if a TV show aired a half-century ago, and it caused TVs of the time to lose their vertical hold, then if that show is aired today, the same thing should happen.

Of course, that would insinuate that things like the Minus World aren't an 'integral part' either. But really, they're not, since they weren't intended to do in the first place. Noone complains when you have to make all new patch codes for a new rereleased port of an older game, noone really complained when Nintendo removed -1 from SMAS and beyond (in SMAS, you could still go through the bricks but the pipes worked normally, in SMBDX, there's two empty bricks so you can't get in the wall).

And surely noone complained when SMAS didn't have horrible OAM cycling when Mario was on the same line as several Goombas, as opposed to the original.

To each their own, tho. You feel that way, that's entirely up to you. I'm just saying that *I* don't consider horrible OAM cycling to be a good thing.

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FC Closer
Re:Sega slowdown... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 05:55 · Score: 0

Genesis/Megadrive emulators suffer the same kind of slowdown because they (correctly) emulate the machine. Grab a copy of Sonic, go to a screen with lots of moving sprites, then get hit so that you lose all of your rings and you'll see the slowdown.

I've grabbed the sources to Gens (a Genesis emulator) and fiddled with the clock values. This process really does work. There is no more slowdown in Sonic and everything else works just fine. It's really quite nifty!
Re:Sega slowdown... by brandorf · 2004-03-11 06:56 · Score: 1

I'm sorry your attention span is so low you don't appreciate one of the hardest shooters ever made. You're really missing out.

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Bork Bork Bork!!
Re:Sega slowdown... by black+mariah · 2004-03-11 12:01 · Score: 1

It has nothing to do with attention span, and R-Type isn't that hard. I'm not a fan of horizontal shooters, especially slow ones. Pulstar is about the same speed, but about a thousand times harder, and I like that one. Blazing Star is faster and, IMO, better. R-Type Leo is amazing, and finally managed to speed up R-Type just enough that it's still a pattern-based shooter but those of us that prefer twitch-style shmups can enjoy it.

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'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.

Maby i am missing the point by ghinckley68 · 2004-03-10 17:19 · Score: 1

OK i give why did he do this again.

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Linux modi 2.6.26-2-parisc

3D Graphics on a TI-85 by KalvinB · 2004-03-10 17:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

While in High School I was always coding various things in BASIC on it and one day when I demonstrating how to map 3D objects by placing the sonic sensor on an overhead cart and rolling it under light fixtures, this kid in my calc class goes "you expect that thing to act like a Pentium." I used TI-BASIC to learn how to do 2D translation and rotation and touched on some 3D. I made the first and possibly only graphical adventure game for it complete with text entry and a cursor to click on objects.

A few years ago I gave it to a friend who needed a TI but I'm pretty sure the Intel Inside Pentium MMX sticker is still on the back of it.

Ben

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Work Safe Porn

Re:3D Graphics on a TI-85 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:49 · Score: 0

Ben, for the last time . . . quit being an uberdork and shut the fuck up.
Re:3D Graphics on a TI-85 by TrancePhreak · 2004-03-10 20:55 · Score: 1

Go visit ti-calc.org and feel dwarfed and illiterate.

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-]Phreak Out[-

Re:How does it work with other genesis attachments by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 17:23 · Score: 2, Informative

It works great .. only thing is, DO NOT boot the Sega/Mega CD over 12 MHz or it will get panicky. The best method is to boot at 7.6, run the game. Then once at the title screen halt and go to the higher speed. The 32x works great in my experience as it doesn't rely on the 68000 much .. it uses a pair of its own SH-2 chips.

Yeah... I rmemeber 12 years ago... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:24 · Score: 1, Interesting

I was tinkering with this on my Amiga 2000 almost the same exact hack... a switch that let you choose between the standard 7MHz and 14Mhz tapped from elsewhere on the mobo. It worked well once I finally sourced a 16MHz 68000 instead of the stock 8MHz. Cheap and dirt simple hack... helped out with DigiPaint rendering among other things, but then again... on a console... why?

Great, it's in English... by SavannahLion · 2004-03-10 17:25 · Score: 3, Informative

I've had a cached URL to overclocking your Genesis/Mega Drive for a long time. Unfortunately, it's in Japanese and Babel Fish makes it really tough to understand technical instructions.

I wonder if the author of the article at Epic Gaming read the Japanese article and got the idea from there?

Re:Great, it's in English... by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 17:29 · Score: 1

Nah, I was working on it before I found that, actually. He swapped the CPU and the RAM, among other parts .. if you change components, it's not really 'overclocking'. He went and bought a faster 68000 to install. I'd rather see how far the real deal will go. :)

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

NTSC does 60Hz, PAL does 50Hz. Most games update the screen every frame, a few will do it on two's. This actually has a use with all games that are programmed correctly, especially those which rely on raw CPU time.

It'd also be nice to play around with in a C64-styled demo, banging on the VDP with the increased cycles available at the higher clock speed. I wonder what happens when you try to hit the VDP too fast. To compare, with a SCPU-equipped C64, the 65816 simply blocks until the 1MHz bus frees up, if it needs to.

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FC Closer

Re:WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by Phybersyk0 · 2004-03-10 17:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

Um. You must have owned an AMIGA also. What you're referring to was quite an issue on the AMIGA, either timing your graphics/music to it's CIA (complex interface adapter) chips or VBI (vertical blanking interval) timing in the FAT AGNUS animation co-processor.
There were always hacks for the Amiga that allowed you to alter the timing for things like graphics, or in most common cases, the playing of music modules (MODS).
The Motorola MC68000 was a comparitivly fast cpu amongst it's peers (IIRC the MAC LCII & the Atari ST had this too), HOWEVER, the CPU was much slower that what was needed in the Amiga, and why job-specific custom chips were created.. but I digress...
Later revisions of the Amiga 500 included a Motorola MC68010 cpu which was electrically compatible with the MC68k, and was a reasonable replacement.. It ran at something like 11Mhz...
So... You should be able to do that to the Megadrive/Genesis also, without any real problems. I remember specifically playing Altered Beast, and each time you'd take on the 2nd level boss (the wierd octo-eye-puss thing) and it would get slow.. man that sucked.
Re:WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by LocalH · 2004-03-10 18:06 · Score: 1

Yeah, I did own an Amiga as well (still have a 3000, by the way), but that really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I was nitpicking the original poster's assertion that most old games ran at 30fps/30Hz. =P

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FC Closer
Re:WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by Kiryat+Malachi · 2004-03-10 18:14 · Score: 1

NTSC does 60 fields per second. A field is half of the scan lines on the screen. So, in effect, NTSC is a 30 full frames per second.

This is why getting good TVout to non-HDTV (480i) TVs is such a bitch.

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Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Re:WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:16 · Score: 0

I just wanted to see this subject again :)
Re:WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by LocalH · 2004-03-10 18:52 · Score: 1

Right, I knew that. But, in the context of a Genesis, or other noninterlaced signal, both the odd and even fields are displayed on the same actual lines, and thus, it becomes essentially a 60fps progressive signal with half the vertical resolution of the interlaced equivalent.

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FC Closer
Re:WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by Kiryat+Malachi · 2004-03-11 21:17 · Score: 1

Does the Genesis output a 240NI signal? Didn't know that.

I was under the impression that all early-gen consoles (anything prior to the Dreamcast, basically) could only output 480i, but I'll totally buy the idea that they run at 240ni.

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Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Re:WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ALL WRONG by LocalH · 2004-03-20 07:41 · Score: 1

I would call it 240p, since the scanlines are always in the same position. But yeah, the early consoles mostly output 240p. Some consoles do have an interlaced mode, however (the Genesis has 2, one that's more akin to a linedoubler, and one that actually gives you 480i). I'm pretty sure the PSX could also output 480i (the BIOS startup is interlaced, for starters).

And the NTSC Genesis only has 224 addressable lines for graphics, the rest are given to the border. The PAL Megadrive can do 240 lines, tho.

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FC Closer

Famous last words... by djupedal · 2004-03-10 17:31 · Score: 4, Funny

The machine doesn't overheat and is entirely stable at these higher speeds.

The machine doesn't overheat and is entirely stable...

The machine doesn't overheat ...

The machine doesn't ... ...work ?

Re:Famous last words... by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 17:33 · Score: 1

We did have a few martyrs in the process of producing a working machine. But they died from other causes, not the actual overclocking.
Re:Famous last words... by djupedal · 2004-03-10 17:46 · Score: 2, Funny

...this is how most people delude themselves in the name of 'science'.

The goal was to overclock...if they fall off the bench and break in the process, they failed due to overclocking.

Reminds me of how in Japan, if you are injured in a car accident, and don't die within the first 12 hours, you are not counted as a traffic fatality.

Parachutist dies from the sudden impact with the ground, not because he jumped out of an airplane?

Man eats glass and dies....not because he ate glass, but because he swallowed? - c'mon....
Re:Famous last words... by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:53 · Score: 1
- The goal was to overclock...if they fall off the bench and break in the process, they failed due to overclocking.
So what, if your goal is to overclock, and they get destroyed due to a flash flood or other natural disaster, they still failed due to overclocking? That just makes no sense. But technically, yeah, the parachutist didn't die just because of the simple fact that he jumped out of an airplane, in and of itself. I know that's not your point, but whatever.
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FC Closer
Re:Famous last words... by djupedal · 2004-03-10 18:14 · Score: 1

So what, if your goal is to overclock, and they get destroyed due to a flash flood or other natural disaster, they still failed due to overclocking? That just makes no sense.

I agree, that sentence makes zero sense. Nice to see you come to your senses. You've seen CSI, tho, right?

(unless, of course, the goal was to check unit survivability in a flood)

If you jump a hooker and catch the clap, and your wife gets it from you, and then the gardener....oh, nevermind. I've made my point :)
Re:Famous last words... by LocalH · 2004-03-10 18:21 · Score: 1

My point is, the unit didn't die from overclocking unless it died from the actual overclocking. If he's got the thing out working on it, and all of a sudden someone throws a rock through the window and it lands right on the Genesis, then it didn't die from overclocking. But nevermind, I've made my point also, we might as well agree to disagree =P

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FC Closer
Re:Famous last words... by djupedal · 2004-03-10 18:31 · Score: 1

The patient died from complications during the procedure.

Now, tell me again, what was the procedure? ...you can say it with me...it's not that hard...you can do it.

o v e r c l o c k i n g
Re:Famous last words... by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 19:38 · Score: 1

The failures were short circuits long after the fact, FYI. :) One was while hooking up a new video output, et cetera. This has been an amusing read and I thank you. ;)
Re:Famous last words... by Desirsar · 2004-03-10 19:40 · Score: 1

If someone is in surgery and some insane person runs in and shoots everyone in the room, including the patient, in the head, they did not die from "complications during the surgery." Similarly, if any patient died from falling off the operating table and the hospital tried to pass it off as "complications" and not admit it and settle would be very very poor, and some lawyer would be very famous. Either way, I want some overclocked consoles just like I want an Amiga and a C64 once I graduate and have money from a nice job to build a collection. :)

Linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:33 · Score: 0

How long til we can expect to see linux running on this bad boy?

perfect dark by ocularDeathRay · 2004-03-10 17:37 · Score: 0

I wish someone would show me how to do this on the nintendo 64. Perfect dark was one of my altime favorite games...but it is truely unplayable in some situations. For example if you play the cooperative mode... the frame rate is absolutely terrible.

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Obama is a twitter sock puppet

Re:Wow by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:39 · Score: 1

No, even before that, coders were syncing to the VBI at the very least. I would guess that even the original SMB would run quite nice at 2, 3, 4, or more MHz.

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FC Closer

street fighter 2 SNES by sewagemaster · 2004-03-10 17:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

i remembered having massive slowdowns in streetfighter - especially if you're using guile and execute any combo more than 4 hits

my favorite combo... but lags in SNES...
jumping fierce + close fierce uppercut + sonic boom + referse fierce + sonic boom.

ironically this was under SF2 TURBO

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my blog

Re:street fighter 2 SNES by balloonpup · 2004-03-10 18:33 · Score: 1

Well, you see, the problem there was that you had turned off the TURBO switch...oh wait...

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I sing the doggie electric!
Re:street fighter 2 SNES by forgotmypassword · 2004-03-10 19:09 · Score: 1

my favorite combo... but lags in SNES...
jumping fierce + close fierce uppercut + sonic boom + referse fierce + sonic boom.

Well obviously if the game didn't slow down then you wouldn't have enough time to charge for the second sonic boom.

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A Usenet Troll Triumphs on Slashdot

Congrats, dude by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:43 · Score: 1

You made it to /., kickass.

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FC Closer

We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by Maul · 2004-03-10 17:44 · Score: 3, Funny

Finally, we can recreate the glorious console wars of the 16-bit era!

I'm going to overclock my Super NES.

I'm not going to let those Sega fanboys get the upper hand on this. They already taunted us SNES owners about their "blast processing" in the early 90s.

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"You spoony bard!" -Tellah

Re:We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 17:46 · Score: 2, Informative

Heh, sorry to burst your bubble, but even at higher clockrates the SNES can't outperform the MegaDrive/Genesis. Too inefficient. Let's call it the 16-bit intel/amd war. ;) But I am working on SNES overclocking. It'll take time, but it's the same basic procedure as with the NES ..
Re:We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by JayBlalock · 2004-03-10 18:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

Oh gods, I'm having bad flashbacks.
Ok, short version:
SNES - slow as hell processor, makes up for it with specialized GFX and Sound chips.
Genny - Faster processor, better memory usage, but fewer colors onscreen and no built-in scaling and rotation.
But really, if you aren't running NeoGeo, you're eating squirrel burgers. ;-)

--
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
Re:We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:14 · Score: 0

Come on guys! remember its about the games ;)
Re:We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by toddestan · 2004-03-10 18:22 · Score: 1

That would rock. I still say the SNES version of SimCity was the best version. But time passed so damn slow. A 286 easily ran SimCity ten times faster.

Didn't stop me from playing it to death though.
Re:We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by PACHUKA · 2004-03-10 18:23 · Score: 1

actually, blast processing was only a term used with the sonic series of games. It wasn't any "blast", it was simply not loading object data until the sonic object entered a certain X/Y area. One of Sega's gimmicks.
Re:We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by evilviper · 2004-03-10 18:49 · Score: 2, Funny

But really, if you aren't running NeoGeo, you're eating squirrel burgers. ;-)

Considering the price of the system, I'd say:

If you aren't running NeoGeo, you can afford to eat!

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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Re:We can't let the Sega fanboys beat us. by LoadWB · 2004-03-11 02:51 · Score: 1

OH YEAH! Saddly, I have a collection of Sim City for just about every computer I own... C64, Amiga, PC. The only SimCity missing is for the TI-99/4A.

Oh, shyt... I smell a project coming on... :)

Any way to get homebrews on real hardware? by Kris_J · 2004-03-10 17:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

Overclocking an; Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Gameboy, GBA, C64 (or any system with a disk drive option) or even a PSX/PS2 is really cool because you can get homebrew code onto real hardware with some sort of RAM or flash cart, or writable media. Enthusiasts can subsequently write new programs that use the extra clock cycles. However, I don't know of any way to get ROMs onto a Genesis/Mega Drive -- is there one?

Meanwhile, anyone in the Perth area that wants a Mega Drive to try this on, you can have one of mine if you'll convert a second for me.

Re:Any way to get homebrews on real hardware? by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:50 · Score: 2, Informative

www.tototek.com They sell a flash cart in 32Mbit and 64Mbit varieties. The 64Mbit one also supports 32x games.

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FC Closer
Re:Any way to get homebrews on real hardware? by Kris_J · 2004-03-10 17:55 · Score: 1

Cool! Now, how to know if someone writes a Mega Drive game/demo only for overclocked decks..?
Re:Any way to get homebrews on real hardware? by LocalH · 2004-03-10 17:59 · Score: 1

I want to do some raster-banging effects myself, but I don't have any data on the cycles per line, which is needed for the really hardcore effects. The Genesis should theoretically be able to do a 'copperscroller' (a text scroller made with only the background color register), and something like this would have the potential to extend that technique, depending on the overclocked CPU's behavior when the bus is not available, as it's likely to be much of the time, with the different clock. I know the SCPU-enhanced C64 will merely block the 65816 until the next 1MHz cycle if need be, but I dunno about this.

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FC Closer
Re:Any way to get homebrews on real hardware? by Eil · 2004-03-11 02:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

However, I don't know of any way to get ROMs onto a Genesis/Mega Drive -- is there one?

Cart copiers exist, but they tend to be either incredibly expensive, incredibly hard to get, or both because the companies that made them stopped selling them once new systems came out. The biggest market for copiers were asian countries with lax copyright laws and rampant piracy. Reportedly, a year or two after the PSX came out, it wasn't uncommon to see someone throwing their perfectly-working copier and stack of floppies (games) right into the dumpster. Now a decent SNES copier can go for upwards of $250 on ebay.
Re:Any way to get homebrews on real hardware? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 05:22 · Score: 0

While rayman could always use more business, I don't think he needs the extra attention of the /. morons. Especially when real console enthusiasts haven't saved up money to acquire his newer kit.

SNES by NeoGeo64 · 2004-03-10 17:53 · Score: 1

Someone needs to overclock a SNES, as it had a much slower proc, 3MHz if I remember correctly. Games like Tetris Attack and others would slow down horribly during heavy gameplay.

Re:SNES by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 17:58 · Score: 1

Working on it. I'll keep you guys posted .. keep visiting http://www.epicgaming.net though. :)
Re:SNES by SlashdotOgre · 2004-03-10 18:52 · Score: 1

I completely agree, this is especially evident in the NHL series put out by EA for both consoles. You can compare any NHL '9X game side by side and the Genesis one is much faster (even comparing NHL '94 on Genesis to NHL '98 on SNES). Now if you'd excuse me, I need to go make Gretzky's head bleed for Mr. Superfan #99 over here.

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Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.

What about the Z80?? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 17:58 · Score: 3, Interesting

The Sega Genesis is a dual processor system containing both a 68K and Z80. Some games are sensative to the timing between the two processors. If you overclock one and not the other some assumptions about the timing is going to break. In the cases of his tests it appears to produce problems with the music since that is what the Z80 gets used for in Sonic. But in other games the Z80 is also used for video effects such as flashing icons. Even if you can get the 68K another 50% faster, you still haven't gotten the entire system correctly clocked at the new rate unless the Z80 can also handle being clocked another 50% faster.

Re:What about the Z80?? by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:04 · Score: 2, Informative

The Z80 is barely used by games save for music .. so it generally doesn't need to be raised. Also, cranking up its clock will likely make sound pitch shoot up..
Re:What about the Z80?? by Half-pint+HAL · 2004-03-11 00:35 · Score: 1

There are plenty of Z80-compatible high-speed chips available. Problem solved.

HAL

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Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'

Re:- Overclocking DOES NOT cause games to speed up by LostCluster · 2004-03-10 18:02 · Score: 1

That really depends on if the programmers are delaying their instructions for time to pass, or not. As the article reports, most of Sonic 2 works perfectly, but the 3D halfpipe bonus levels are running as fast as the processor can go with no sleeping involved, so those glitch out...

NONE by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 18:04 · Score: 0

Console games of those times has to run off the VSYNC, completing their logic loops within each screen refresh. The screen refresh doesn't change even if the CPU is sped up.

lol by PACHUKA · 2004-03-10 18:09 · Score: 1

This has been done a hundred times before. This kid is well known for stealing other people's work. I suggest checking old newsgroups for the original info.

Re:lol by PACHUKA · 2004-03-10 18:20 · Score: 2, Informative

http://www.vuni.ne.jp/~tamari/megadrive/md.html here's where the original information was stolen from. It's a fairly common item, that's been passed on in SEGA development communities since 1999, when this article first surfaced. So Epicenter's "work" basicly means "copy and paste".
Re:lol by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:31 · Score: 1

Buzz off. He replaced numerous components. It's not overclocking. And I found that long after I had hammered out the procedure myself. Go back where you came from, this is place for people with a brain.
Re:lol by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:39 · Score: 1

Also note this sicko's site-- http://www.sonic-cult.org. All stolen content. And pedophilic hentai. Your kind is not wanted here.
Re:lol by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:45 · Score: 1

Also, this copy-and-paste crap coming from the guy who stole my entire Ecco 2 Alpha site from me and posted it under his name, then IM'ed me to taunt me with it. This kind of lying a**hole is the reason I avoid the Sonic community.
Re:lol by laggerzero · 2004-03-10 18:59 · Score: 1

I haven't known about you long pachuka but since the day I have heard about you, my hatred for you has become greater. If anyone should be called a thief it is you. You have stolen the ecco2 beta informatoin off of epicgaming. Yoursite is the most god awful piese of shit I have ever seen. I can't see how anyone enjoys coming to a site with pictures of cream the rabit upskirts; you are truely a preverted man. It is a good thing that sonicteam is after you after the sonic heroes incedent; the world has enough assholes in it and one less makes things a lot better. Burn in hell asshole.
Re:lol by Light+Serif · 2004-03-10 18:59 · Score: 1

You're not one to talk about copying others' work, Pachuka. Isn't it kind of hypocritical of you to falsely accuse him of copying someone else's work, when your own site, Sonic CulT, is comprised entirely of other peoples' work? And your Ecco 2 Beta site is an exact source rip of a site made by Deven himself? Not so big now, are you you lying, pathetic little weasel? Pwned. Now shut up and go away.
Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 19:03 · Score: 0

Holy fuck, the Sonic scene's fighting spreads to /. Satan must have a cold ass right now.
Re:lol by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 19:41 · Score: 1

pwn3d.
Re:lol by laggerzero · 2004-03-10 19:44 · Score: 1

and how!
Re:lol by gklinger · 2004-03-10 19:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

Against my better judgement, I'm going to give you a couple of suggestions...
First off, this place is for discussion and it is generally a good idea to counter opinions with your own rather than trying to censure people. Let moderators decide what is and isn't appropriate. That's what the system is for.
Secondly, it appears as if you've created multiple accounts so you can make posts supporting yourself without it appearing as if you're doing (even though it's patently obvious). If this is not the case, I find it to be a remarkable coincidence that three new users with almost consecutive IDs, you (761169), laggerzero (761187) and Light Serif (761190) all commented in the same thread right after one another. Further, those comments were the only ones those users ever made. Quite a coincidence indeed.
Last but not least, and please take this as a constructive suggestion and not an insult: Take a deep breath and try to relax. You're working yourself into a lather unnecessarily and in the process, making yourself look a tad silly. Remember, this isn't a popularity contest. It's just Slashdot.
Re:lol by PACHUKA · 2004-03-10 21:00 · Score: 1

This is fairly common behaviour from this kid. Nothing to write up a document about, he saw my name and called for backup. He's afraid I'm going to embarass him which I already have. These moderators you speak of, do they also moderate people stealing other people's works?
Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 10:53 · Score: 0

And he's off again, mentioning this hubaloo...

http://sonic-cult.org/newsx/fullnews.php?id=157
Re:lol by AJ+187 · 2004-03-11 12:44 · Score: 1

>Go back where you came from, this is place for people with a brain.

then what are you doing here?

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-AJ 187
Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 16:14 · Score: 0

wow, i swear you guys are stupid fucks, epicenter is trying to look like a pimp with this info and pachuka's site fucking owns yours.. and pedophilic hentai? where? like two pictures? riiight.. and it even sys on the site hes't rying to make a huge page, therefore he's not exactly stealing it, and he was giving credit.
Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-15 08:10 · Score: 0

(Yes, I'm too lazy to get a password)

Anyways, Sonic CulT is a compilation of research on video games. Research, is basically made up from other sources, you moron. How else do you think he has information on there?

and with blast proccesing :-D by cyrax777 · 2004-03-10 18:21 · Score: 1

those commericals were great and all it turned out to be was skipping frames. :-D

Remove the slowdown in split-screen Sonic 2? by Xenex · 2004-03-10 18:23 · Score: 1

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 suffered some pretty bad slowdown in the split-screen two player mode. Does running the game on an overclocked Genesis/MegaDrive resolve this?

Even on the GameCube Sonic Collection, the slowdown remains - Sega emulated the Genesis/MegaDrive exactly. It'd be amusing if Sonic 2 ran better on an overclocked Genesis than a GameCube!

Re:Remove the slowdown in split-screen Sonic 2? by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:29 · Score: 1

Yep. Watch Demo video #1 on the site. Sorry for the file size. I wanted it to be OBVIOUS, and with my smaller versions .. it was too blurry to tell.

You know... by TWX · 2004-03-10 18:27 · Score: 4, Funny

" ... as the time I slapped a Type-R sticker on my Casio FX-1000 solar-powered calculator. Before I did that, it took 950 milliseconds to calculate 69! Afterward, it calculated 69! in 940 milliseconds flat."

Personally, I prefer my sixty-nine bangs to take a little longer than that...

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.

Re:- Overclocking DOES NOT cause games to speed up by LoadWB · 2004-03-10 18:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

I am glad to see this as a root post. Anyone who has ever dug into the internals of the Amiga, Mac, or Atari ST hardware has found that moving to faster 680x0 CPUs did not affect game speed, only the amount of lag (we called it "bog") in a game.

I have nearly two decades of experience with the 680x0 CPUs in the Amiga systems. I remember being absolutely thrilled when Sega used the 68000 CPU in the Genesis. I hacked an original unit which had the 68-pin package with a 68010. Honestly, I do not remember the full results, but I recall I was still able to play the majority of my collection (two carts at the time, hahahaha.)

I also toyed with the idea to replace the 68000 with an MTec 68020 accelerator pulled from my Amiga 500. I never tried it, and I still am not so sure it would have worked anyway. If the AmigaOS was a little less hard-wired to the Amiga hardware architecture, given a little work, we might could have seen AmigaOS running on a Genny ;) Hell, we might still be able to see that just for kicks.

Having gone from 68000 to 68040 in all its discernable steps (I still dream of a 68060/PPC accelerator for my A4000,) I have been able to bring all of my games with me. The only problem I have is with expected timing of the OCS chipset versus the AGA chipset. But there are a number of great hard drive installers which over come this, as well as system "degraders" which place the computer in a state almost identical to the original Amiga hardware.

In any case, I'm inspired by this article and look forward to dropping a 12MHz clock generator in my Sega II (provided its CPU will support it.)

(climbing up on soap box) It is also worth mentioning that us old-hat gamers take a lot of shit for being so nostalgic and blah blah blah, aching for an era long-past. I got news for those who cast stones, many of those games were FUN, and down-right phuqn great. I will not say that none of my collections are nostalgic -- I have a number of Atari 2600 carts which I never played then and do not play now other than for testing, simply because they are Atari. But the majority of the games I collect (Amiga, Atari, Sega, NES, TI, C64, and others) WERE fun, and are STILL FUN.

How many people are still playing a "dead" console because the games rocked and you cannot get them for "modern" consoles? PS1 is almost 10 years old, and yet it still has a large following. I bet in 10 years there will still be a large faction of people playing the original XBox because some of the titles will not be available on newer consoles, or just will not play the same. (I do wonder how game play of XBox 1 games will be on the XBox 2...)

Well, enough of that.

END OF LINE

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2004-03-10 18:29 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

16Mhz by Treacle+Treatment · 2004-03-10 18:31 · Score: 1

I doubt you will get much beyond 16mhz. That's pretty much the top end for these guys. Maybe 20-25. Big MAYBE.

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TT

Alternate suggestion. by gklinger · 2004-03-10 18:36 · Score: 2, Informative

Rather than overclocking the 68000, he should consider upgrading the CPU. The Motorola 68010 is both pin and insstruction compatible and it has a slightly higher range of operational clock speeds. Way back in the day (I've always wanted to say that!) I upgrade dozens of Amiga 1000s without a problem. And yes, the upgrade was, for all intents and purposes, useless. I would tell people that and they would still want the upgrade so I let commerce take its natural course.

Re:Alternate suggestion. by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:42 · Score: 1

I want to keep the same components in there, for the sake of pushing the real hardware. I could go that route and did consider it awhile ago, but I'd rather not. Besides, some people have reported slight incompatibilities after using the 68000->010 upgrade.
Re:Alternate suggestion. by nogginthenog · 2004-03-11 00:44 · Score: 1

Don't forget the 3 instruction cache on the 68010! (the 68000 had none).

Someone should get this guy working on the NES by Tony.Tang · 2004-03-10 18:42 · Score: 1

I still remember having problems playing smooth games on the old-skool Nintendo when there were more than say eight or nine sprites on screen. Remember Super DodgeBall? Geez that was "dodgy" sometimes. Same thing for Super Spike V'ball, if I recall correctly.

Speaking of which, here's a question -- has there been work by the emulator guys to build in sort of "software" overclocking for the emulated systems?

Re:Someone should get this guy working on the NES by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:49 · Score: 1

Got the NES from 1.79 to 2.4 MHz already, working on higher. :) The SNES is next after that. I'll post about all those, too. :D
Re:Someone should get this guy working on the NES by LoadWB · 2004-03-11 02:55 · Score: 1

Where are you finding your board specs? I was able to oc my C64 way back when (much to the shigrin of VIC-II ;) because of my extensive knowledge of the mainboard. Having the schematics in a SAMS book didn't hurt that endeavour. But I'm having a difficult time finding schematics for NES, et al.
Re:Someone should get this guy working on the NES by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 10:19 · Score: 0

Try here.

maybe I could swap out the cpu with my 68030 by insanely_mad · 2004-03-10 18:50 · Score: 1

from my mac se/30. that would be hella bitchin'

Re:maybe I could swap out the cpu with my 68030 by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 18:59 · Score: 1

Different pinout, instruction set, and package type. :( Sorry. But yes, that would be bitchin'.
Re:maybe I could swap out the cpu with my 68030 by blakespot · 2004-03-11 00:58 · Score: 1

Pin compatibilities and bus interface issues would not allow it - but unless the games have self modifying code (done without proper cache clear) then they would run on it. Since the Genesis was a frozen platform using 68000 only, I am sure there is self modifying code in use!

blakespot

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-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com

Who overclock instead of upgrading? by evilviper · 2004-03-10 18:57 · Score: 1

Why would you bother to overclock the processor in the Genesis, why you could just replace it with a slightly newer, faster 68000 CPU? They should have retained compatibily across newer models, and I'd bet the pin-outs stayed the same for a few generations as well. Embedded chips usually don't change often, in order to give developers a clear and easy upgrade path. Surely you could do the same with the Genesis, and probably avoid the breakup in the Sonic 2 special-stages.

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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant

Re:How does it work with other genesis attachments by forgotmypassword · 2004-03-10 19:05 · Score: 2, Informative

Seeing that the 32X removed all of the slowdown from all of my games anyhow, I really don't see the point of any of this.

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A Usenet Troll Triumphs on Slashdot

SNES vs Genesis vs TG16 vs NeoGeo by cgenman · 2004-03-10 19:20 · Score: 1

Overclocking these systems is like racing mules. I mean, sure, my mule may carry 50 lbs of potatoes 1 mph faster than your mule, but somebody please buy a jeep.

Ok, I'm just bitter that I never got my Neo Geo port of Strider. It would have been so beautiful.

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The ______ Agenda

Probable side effects for sega genesis by AltaMannen · 2004-03-10 19:25 · Score: 1

There are some timing sensitive stuff going on, setting up dma to vram can go wrong without good timing, and expect to see lots of flashing pixels in games that change colours using a hblank interrupt.

Re:Probable side effects for sega genesis by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 19:35 · Score: 1

Nope, none of that has occurred. And I've done extreme testing..

I always like that feature :) by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 19:28 · Score: 2, Funny

I always like that feature :)
Gives you time to go "ARGH!", punch something, and recover :::)))

9125 hits and not down yet.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 19:33 · Score: 0

...but we're hoping.

The Slashdot effect isn't doing too well today.

Many games use the Vertical refresh interrupts by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 19:36 · Score: 2, Informative

Many, if not most, games drive their logic using the vertical refresh interrupt. This tells them that the scanline is not in a visible part of the screen, so that now is a good time to do redrawing and so forth.

The logic parts of the game (AI and so forth) are usually done asynchronously, then the redraw is done on that edge so as to avoid tearing.

It's much the same as modern day graphics cards frequency lock settings, except that in older games everything tends to be dependant on the graphics refresh.

Kind'a hard to see the difference by Aqua+OS+X · 2004-03-10 19:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

it's kind'a hard to tell the difference when we're looking at an AVI file with a set frame rate.

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mod this guy up by c.emmertfoster · 2004-03-10 19:51 · Score: 1

Impressive observation. Although the fact that all three accounts used the term "pwned" might have tipped me off eventually. I don't think I've ever seen anyone write that around here :)

--
We can neither love nor pity nor forgive. If you make a slip in handling us you die!

Re:mod this guy up by Epicenter713 · 2004-03-10 20:00 · Score: 1

o.o Actually, laggerzero is my roommate and Serif is my excitable webhost. ;D We just share the same opinions. They kinda rallied behind me. ;) This guy's been pissing me off for ages, I wish he didn't have to follow me every-freakin'-where.
Re:mod this guy up by c.emmertfoster · 2004-03-10 20:06 · Score: 1

While the points that you are trying to articulate may be valid, your presentation of them is somewhat distracting. If you spend the time to write a coherent rebuttal and clearly present some facts to support your case, you might not be dismissed so easily. Better luck in the future.

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We can neither love nor pity nor forgive. If you make a slip in handling us you die!
Re:mod this guy up by Rolken · 2004-03-12 06:04 · Score: 1

Yeah, except not. ;D Nobody cares enough to register two new accounts just to post (in the same style, I might add) on your behalf except you. ;) "I wish he didn't have to follow me every-freakin'-where." Don't flatter yourself. Reading Slashdot and stalking you are two very different things. ;P

No... by hyc · 2004-03-10 19:52 · Score: 4, Informative

You're off by at least a decade. Maybe the original Pong and Atari 2600 were cycle-counters. Everything made after that used VBI timing. Newer arcade boxes like the NeoGeo used 68020s, which of course had instruction caches that made cycle-counting impossible.

I'd love to get an Atari ST emulator up and running Spectrum Holobyte's Falcon, overclocked. It would be cool to see it running at a smooth frame rate.

As I recall, by the end of life the Motorola 68000s were all made as 16MHz parts. The slower parts were simply not made or sold any more. Also, even when they were genuine 8MHz parts, they were pretty reliable with 50% overclocking; we did this sort of thing all the time in Atari STs before the 68020 and 68030 upgrades got popular.

There were limits to what you could gain though, since the 68000 had no on-chip caches of any kind and the system bus generally couldn't handle as much of a speedup. The better upgrades included a memory cache with the accelerated 68000 on a daughterboard that plugged into the original CPU socket, to allow the processor to run at full speed without disturbing the rest of the system. It was all a dicey job though; the tolerances in the rest of the system were pretty ragged. I remember having to desolder a bunch of 74LS series buffers and replace with 74HC or AS series or somesuch that worked at faster clock rates, more noise immunity, etc., adding tantalum capacitors everywhere, etc... Ah, the good old days.

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-- *My* journal is more interesting than *yours*...

Re:Hmmm.. Genny! by AvantLegion · 2004-03-10 19:53 · Score: 1

In the five or so years that Genny was around,

And boy did Genny get around! whoo-wee!

Does anyone else not like that shortened name?

Genny I got your number! 8-6-7-5-3-0-nigh-eee-iiine!

Uh... The answer lies with Nintendo... by Chordonblue · 2004-03-10 20:03 · Score: 3, Informative

At least with the SNES. Take Gradius 4 for example - one of the first releases for the SNES. The slowdown in that damn game was unbelievable at times and yet you look at something like Pilotwings or Mario and you'd never see it.

Why?

Well, as it turns out, Nintendo underpowered the SNES' processor BIG TIME. In the first releases only Nintendo was permitted to use cartridge-based 'assist' chips that assisted with animation of larger objects. This explains why Nintendo's games always looked so golden on SNES.

Later Nintendo licensed the chips for 3rd parties but really screwed them for it. This was back in the day when Nintendo made all the games themselves, chose which ones would see the light of day (yes, even 3rd party ones!), and charged an arm an a leg for those assist chips.

--
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."

Nintendo did this... by Chordonblue · 2004-03-10 20:12 · Score: 4, Informative

A lot of SNES stuff had 'assist' chips in the cartridges. Most were basic 'blitter' chips, but there were some that actually had co-processing on board for 3D graphics (SuperFX). Games like Starfox and Stunt Race FX simply would not have been possible on that console otherwise.

I wonder if you're thinking of a special version of Ecco that ran on the 32X Genesis co-processor.

--
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."

Re:Nintendo did this... by Talez · 2004-03-10 22:40 · Score: 1

The only game I know of that used an add-on chip with the Genesis was Virtua Racing with the Sega Virtual Processor. That was one hefty chip.
Re:Nintendo did this... by rsmith-mac · 2004-03-11 03:00 · Score: 1

FYI, Ecco 32X was never released, so the whole discussion is really academic.

68k Amiga500 too by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 20:21 · Score: 1, Interesting

The Commodore Amiga500 computer was also based on a 7.14MHz 68000 processor. This CPU was as slow as dirt plus some. Commodore was stuck putting in this slug of a CPU model for the longest time because most software made for the Amiga was timed down to the CPU in the original 1985 Amiga (and the chipset - practically like a game console, but that's another story).

The CPU in the Amiga500 could easily be overclocked to 11MHz or even 14.2MHz. This would obviously yield a massive improvement, making the computer significantly more usable as a desktop system. It's the difference between opening a drawer (folder) and it popping up almost instantly vs taking a second or two.

Re:68k Amiga500 too by fuggsy · 2004-03-11 02:34 · Score: 1

Most of the software on the A500 was timed to the vertical blank interupt comming off the copper coprocessor (50Hz or 60Hz). A more likely reason is that Commodore were to cheap to update their hardware, In the era Commodore a new case design after 5 years was the most you could expect....
Re:68k Amiga500 too by doppleganger871 · 2004-03-11 02:37 · Score: 1

Yea, but there are loads of CPU upgrade cards for the Amiga. Our amiga 2000 had a 33mhz 68030 CPU card in it. That made the thing quite a bit faster. We also had a 386sx/25 bridgeboard, which we later upgraded with a 486slc/50mhz upgrade chip... ya know, the type that snapped onto the 386. That worked well, too. Two 500MB drives (one IDE, one SCSI) for data.

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-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Re:68k Amiga500 too by LoadWB · 2004-03-11 03:01 · Score: 1

Actually, the entire system was clocked against the 28.something MHz custom chips for synchronizing with NTSC video. (Different MHz used for PAL machines, blah.)

The 28MHz clock divided down to 14MHz and 7MHz, the former which was the video clock and the later used for the 68000. This made the system perfect for Genlock use. Similar in reason to why most CD player processors ran at 88.2kHz -- double the 44.1kHz sample rate of a CD.

It had nothing to do with intentionally crippling the system. That didn't happen until much later in Commodore/Amiga's history with the development of the AGA and never-released AAA chipsets, Zorro III bus problems, and others (should read Dave Haynie's document collection sometime. It's scary.)
Re:68k Amiga500 too by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 10:07 · Score: 0

Actually, for a long time the 68k was among the fastest processor you could get (without paying astronomical sums at least). Sun and HP made some UNIX-workstations based on this chip before they started using their own RISC-processors. Unfortunately, other faster processors became available while Commodore wasn't paying attention to increased need for more CPU power.

Fixed speed difficult without external timebase by noidentity · 2004-03-10 20:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

A game with a varying number of on-screen objects which achieves consistent speed without relying on an external timebase is somewhat difficult to code because the execution time of every routine must be taken into account to determine the proper delay until the next frame. It's unlikely that the overall frame rate of a game would be normally determined by CPU cycles used (it will be when there is too much to process in the usual frame interval). In addition, video hardware on some consoles only allows access between frames (during vertical blanking). Even where it doesn't, if the game's frame rate isn't synchronized with the video frame rate, when updates are made in the middle of the video frame, the next completed video frame will have a split across the middle with the old frame on top and the new frame on the bottom.

Depending on the CPU speed for short self-contained routines which access hardware in a time-critical way is probably more common, and not bad practice, since the older consoles were kept compatible at the hardware level. Keeping hardware the same across board revisions allowed elimination of a cycle-consuming software abstraction layer.

Re:Fixed speed difficult without external timebase by TrancePhreak · 2004-03-10 21:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Most consoles at that time operated in a fairly similar fashion. The video hardware would draw the frame, and then a v-blank would be triggered. During the v-blank, you could execute code and manipulate the video data. When not in v-blank, you could calculate game related things. For example, a common game would manipulate a local set of data with the information for the sprites. The v-blank is triggered and the local data is copied into vram. V-blank ends and the process begins again.

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-]Phreak Out[-

Overheating by Jacek+Poplawski · 2004-03-10 20:29 · Score: 2, Funny

Overclocking 8-bit computers like Atari 800XL is very good thing, because these computers where often used to keep your legs warm in winter (if you don't believe me, ask older collegue, who had 8-bit computer), so additional overheating can only help :-)
Stability is of course different problem. Overclocked Atari may work almost as badly as Windows XP.

Wow by Talez · 2004-03-10 21:09 · Score: 1

If I could post mod points I would give you one.

Thanks for that.

Re:Wow by hyc · 2004-03-10 21:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Thanks for the thought.

I think it's ironic, in an industry where the common practice was to build chips targeted at a particular speed, and sell the ones that didn't pass certification as slower parts, that Motorola was stuck selling perfectly good 16MHz chips as 8MHz chips just to keep that price point open. (There was absolutely no difference between an 8MHz and 16MHz chip by the end of their product life.) And there were people routinely running their 16MHz chips at 32MHz, because the fact was that they were produced off the same process used to make the 25MHz 68020s, and that core was the same as the 32MHz 68030. It was all the same silicon, all of it good enough for 32MHz.

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-- *My* journal is more interesting than *yours*...

Or maybe they were GAMES CONSOLES by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 22:18 · Score: 0

Poorly programmed because they don't run on different refresh rate?

WAKE UP DUDE, THIS IS A 1980s GAMES CONSOLE. It has ONE "refresh" rate -- PAL or NTSC. Everything in the machine is timed around this signal. You do NOT waste precious 68000 cycles on shit like object orienteering, generic code or programming in C. That is not "poor" programming, that is judicious use of resources.

Now that machines are so powerful, you can waste as many cycles as you want on code aesthetics and things the gamer will NEVER SEE. After all, they expect all these super-powerful 3D systems to run at 30fps or less, rather than the full 50/60hz frame rate of their old megadrives.

clockless by DrSkwid · 2004-03-10 23:03 · Score: 1

tick tock

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There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

sadly, that mod did nothing by SillyCON · 2004-03-10 23:22 · Score: 1

I did that mod too, but it hardly improved the speed by 2%. AMIGA gorgeous architecture was synchronous in a way that memory accesses, system buses and custom chips followed a common state machine ruled by the 28mhz clock. So overclocking the clock only makes it to wait for memory cycles (processor was able to access "slow" memory only at even clock cycles)

NOW YOU'RE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 23:36 · Score: 0

Later revisions of the Amiga 500 included a Motorola MC68010 cpu which was electrically compatible with the MC68k, and was a reasonable replacement.. It ran at something like 11Mhz...

Not a single Amiga 500 or 500plus shipped from C= with a 68010 inside of them. Neither did any A500 machine ship from Commodore with the CPU running at 11MHz.

It can overclock Sonic, but.... by ProppaT · 2004-03-11 00:07 · Score: 2, Funny

The real question is, can it overclock my Ballz?

--
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."

I'm going to overclock... by Epistax · 2004-03-11 01:03 · Score: 1

... my watch. No matter how many times I reset it I'll always be early for meetings.

Dungeon Keeper by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 01:12 · Score: 0

Dungeon Keeper Gold... came out in 98, ran wonderfully on a K6-233, when I upgraded to a 550 it ran nearly double speed, impossible to play.

Fortunately by that time Dungeon Keeper 2 was out. :-)

But does it run Linux? by Ed+Avis · 2004-03-11 01:58 · Score: 1

With that fast overclocked processor, it seems a shame not to run Linux on these machines - anyone doing that? Or at least a stripped down version for MMU-less machines.

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-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com

But he removed the videos by Bilange · 2004-03-11 02:32 · Score: 1

so slashdotting isnt going to do much :(

--
"...a generation of kids has grown up thinking Trance is the shittiest music since country and western." - Paul van Dyk

110v vs 220v by wardomon · 2004-03-11 02:33 · Score: 0

I've gotten a short (pun intended) 110v blast. It stung like the dickens. I don't ever want to feel 220v, thanks all the same.

--

- - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?

that 'slow-down' was a feature by CAIMLAS · 2004-03-11 02:45 · Score: 2, Interesting

I don't know about anyone else, but I actually appreciated it when my NES or genesis would slow down. It usually happened in a particularly difficult spot, and it allowed for quicker response on my part. Such slowdown is the only reason I ever managed to beat Super Mario Brothers.

Since I couldn't afford a game genie, it was a nice substitute at times. :)

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~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers

Google does 69! by houghi · 2004-03-11 03:58 · Score: 1

We use google now

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Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.

But I won't be able to read fast enough... by generationxyu · 2004-03-11 04:01 · Score: 2, Funny

How would I ever memorize the Zero Wing Intro?

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I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.

Re:- Overclocking DOES NOT cause games to speed up by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 04:05 · Score: 1

I just raised my hand, but I'm not sure that the Dreamcast qualifies as an old system. Perhaps, just one departed before its time was truly up. I think that SoulCalibur will stand the test of time and be considered a true classic. Right now, it still seems like the real deal cat's meow.

I love pretty much everything about my Dreamcast and am considering getting a cheepy-cheap modem-based ISP account just so I can eff around w/ it. Any suggestions?

Of course, if we just talking 80's then I have only this to say:
NES .... Ice Climber.
I still pull this out from time to time just to get my 'Sledge On'.

I OVERCLOCKED MY COCK by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 04:06 · Score: 0

to better entertain tbl's mom!

If his gear shifter was a dildo...

HE WOULD SHIFT WITH HIS ASS!

Now the real question is... by Atmchicago · 2004-03-11 04:59 · Score: 1

Can you make a beowulf cluster out of 'em?

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.

68k - 68010? by Nimey · 2004-03-11 05:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

Is it possible to desolder the 68000 and replace it with a 68010? The '10 had better integer performance and had an identical pinout.

--
Hail Eris, full of mischief...

E pluribus sanguinem

Re:- Overclocking DOES NOT cause games to speed up by Destoo · 2004-03-11 05:32 · Score: 1

I really don't remember that game, but note it has just been re-released by Nintendo for the Famicom Mini, a GBA add on that plays nes classic games.

An exact port of the Famicom/NES classic game for the Game Boy Advance handheld system in commemoration of the 20th Anniversary legacy of the original Nintendo Famicom system (and the release of the Famicom Edition Game Boy Advance SP system). There's only one way to collect the vegetables that the condor has placed on one of 32 challenging platform-based mountains, and that's by going all the way up!
-- ign

--
Nouvelles de jeux et technologies en français. TC

Re:- Overclocking DOES NOT cause games to speed up by Hatta · 2004-03-11 05:40 · Score: 1

Absolutely. I have a somewhat respectable collection, and play them all the time. I very rarely play newer games, though I've recently made an exception for Knights of the Old Republic. It's great to see them making adventure games of such high caliber.

Anyway, lest anyone say I'm being nostalgic, let me mention that several kids in my building come play video games with me once in a while. They love the old 8bit and 16 bit games, though they weren't even born when these systems came out. The atari and intellivision however don't seem to hold their interest quite as much.

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Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!

so... by neko9 · 2004-03-11 06:06 · Score: 1

... at 16mhz road rash 1, 2 and 3 will playable smoothly at last? actually many megadrive/genesis games has ugly framerate. except sonic of course :-) only in two player mode framerate drops there. and what about first playstation? many good games has slow framerate and many even without vsync. for example "world's scariest police chases".

Or... by Bert64 · 2004-03-11 06:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Why not pull the 68000 out and replace it with a 68010 chip, which is pin compatible, faster at the same clockrate and able to run at higher clock rates anyway...
I always thought the megadrive 68000 cpu was clocked at 12mhz anyway, it was the Amiga 500/600 series machines which used 7mhz 68000, and one cheap upgrade path was to pull the 12mhz cpu out of a megadrive

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VISUALSHOCK! by BitwizeGHC · 2004-03-11 06:36 · Score: 1

Gives new meaning to the immortal phrase:

VISUALSHOCK! SPEEDSHOCK! SOUNDSHOCK! NOW IS TIME TO THE 68000 HEART ON FIRE!

(as found in the Alien Soldier opening screen)

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N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!

Slowdown isn't just for emulation by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 07:45 · Score: 0

Speaking of slowdown, Storm Caliber has adjustable slow down that will work consistently on machines running at ANY speed (even on Athlon 64 FX!), which is perfect for bullet filled scenes. BTW, despite Japanese docs, the game menus are written in English.

Oh, one more thing... by forel · 2004-03-11 08:08 · Score: 1

I see all this talk about the games possibly not running properly with the CPU overclocked. I feel the need to share my experience with Sonic CD for PC.
I don't own any PC's, I use Virtual PC with Win95 for any times I may need to use anything in MS land. So, at CompUSA I see this old game of Sonic CD for PC with ridiculously low system requirments (something like 486 or Pentium at 66 or 100 mhz, can't recall exactly). Feeling Virtual PC is more than capable of handling this (Mac is a dual 867 G4), I bought.
Yes, virtual PC is capable. Way too capable. I can't play it at all - faster than if Sonic was a crack addict fast. The clock in the game runs out before I get halfway through any level.
Which makes me think - will the Genesis clock speed affect the time in the games?

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-- What I don't have in intelligence, I make up for in a lack thereof.

Re:- Overclocking DOES NOT cause games to speed up by jamshid42 · 2004-03-11 08:21 · Score: 1

My son plays my old NES almost as much as he plays with the PS2. So not only did I get a lot of fun out of the older system, but my son is enjoying it now (as do I when I game with him).

I don't think that a game has to have the newest and best technologies to be a great game. The real value of a game is the (re)playability and whether or not it has a decent concept.

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/. - Proof that Sturgeon's Law is true...

Funk Yeah by InvaderSkooge · 2004-03-11 08:38 · Score: 1

Finally, I can play Toe Jam and Earl the way it was supposed to be played: fast.

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Erik
YOU ARE SAYING IMPUDENCE TO ME! THAT IS IMPUDENCE!

Atari STFM 520 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-11 11:55 · Score: 0

SF2 on Atari STFM 520 was slow compared to the SNES version, but still fun. Maybe if I'd had my Amiga earlier... never saw SF2 on Amiga.

GrimRC

This reminds me of celerons by Stevyn · 2004-03-11 17:07 · Score: 1

Before linux was the rage, overclocking 200Mhz cpu's to 500Mhz was king. I remember when people were buying slow "celeries" and overclocking the shit out of them and kicking AMD out of the water on floating point. It's good to see people still risk life and fire to eek more performance out of their hardware, whatever it may be.

But wait... by mrkslntbob · 2004-03-12 09:08 · Score: 1

Wouldn't overclocking Sega Genesis/Megadrive "Set us up the Bomb"?

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